S05.E09: Zari, Not Zari

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Sara, Constantine and Charlie find themselves in British Columbia searching for another piece of the Loom, but they run into a problem they couldn't have foreseen.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

Con foraging for spell ingredients while Sara battled Atropos was so much fun.

And Sara battled one of the Moirai multiple times and lived another day. Badass. 

Zari! Talking to Zari! Tala slipped right back into OG effortlessly. And OG Zari instantly loves Zari 2.0.

Ok the way Atropos killed Behrad was cool but HOW DARE YOU KILL BEHRAD.

I hope they do bring Behrad back but I’m thinking they’ll lean hard into the Greek of it all and they won’t succeed. I’ll settle for him joining OG Zari in the totem world. 

[Jediknight]

Legends, you were the chosen show.  It was said that you'd be lighthearted, not join the heartbreaking shows.  That'd you'd be the happy show of the Beeboverse, not leave it in darkness.

Just had to kill Behrad, didn't you?  The only positive is that Zari's about to unleash pain on Charlie's horrible no good terribad sisters.

We got Baby, and Sara being even more badass, but dude, Behrad.  Why?

[bettername2come]

Does Zari telling a trenchcoat-wearing guy she's gonna do whatever it takes to save her brother count as another Supernatural reference?

No! Behrad! But you're my favorite Legend of the last two seasons. He was such an awesome, loving little brother this episode. Wanting to share the totem with Zari and getting all excited about the adventures he, Nate and Zari could've had, and protecting her while she was in the totem. I'm nearly positive this death's getting undone, but this is the saddest Legends moment since Stein's death. 

So I guess the Paragon of Destiny can survive seeing a Fate's true form?

[shantown]

5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I hope they do bring Behrad back but I’m thinking they’ll lean hard into the Greek of it all and they won’t succeed. I’ll settle for him joining OG Zari in the totem world. 

I love Behrad - I think he was a really solid new character that was added at a time when the other newer characters were pretty over-acted and thus pretty polarizing (Gary, Mona). I'm really sad he's dead but he had a good death scene and died trying to protect Zari. I hope the death sticks, and that we get a goodbye scene with Zari 1.0 getting to see her brother again in totem world.

Mick was pretty separate from the rest of the show, but I always enjoy when we get to see his softer side under all the gruffness. Also, Lita as a mini-Captain Cold at Halloween! Too cute!

Really liked the 3 sisters/loom of fate stuff this week. I like the storyline as a concept and am invested in seeing how it shakes out, which is nice after being completely uninterested in they HeyWorld/HeyDad stuff.

[Lady Calypso]

So..I missed a few episodes. But I felt like I had to tune in for this one because, well, it's a Zari episode and it had Supernatural references. 

But man, I didn't expect them to tug on my heartstrings with Behrad's death. No, show! You don't cast an amazing character, the best new character since Nora, and then kill him off! I TRULY hope that they can save him. You got rid of Ray and Nora, so you OWE ME, SHOW.

The Zari stuff was truly great. I liked seeing both versions of Zari interact. 

The Mick stuff with Ava and his daughter was decent enough. It's cool to see him get a plotline, especially one where he has to show a softer side yet still also be totally himself. 

Sara survives seeing a Fate's true form! You go, Paragon of Destiny! I'm so glad to see her survive another day. I guess Charlie's sister didn't get the memo about Sara, the Legend with Nine (Thousand) Lives.

I also lol'd at the Supernatural references.

The Fates are something that I did miss out on so I'll have to go back to catch the last few episodes I've missed.

[UNOSEZ]

Ok... Atropos.. Is absolutely no Joke.. Her cutting Behrad's string was intense.. Don't normally cheer on bad guys but got caught up in the moment.. Also Joanna Vanderham is a stunner... So how exactly did Sara survive... Did I miss her getting a powerup?... Con was selfish.. But what's new about that... Didn't care about Mick and Ava all that much.. But Lita as mini smart did rock.. Her being all my dad bailed all my life.. While understandable from her viewpoint.. Feels whiny when you know what mick has been up to... I hope for more Gods of Fate stuff.. And I'd really like for Charlie to get some powers back... Did think it was cool when she reverted back to a child.. Wonder if she was always a child... Hope we get some new legends soon... May be time for Mick to step off they don't give DP much to do anymore.. And Ava bores me to no end

[Alice Mudgarden]

This show always manages to make me care about someone so that it always hurts when they die.

Please let there be a way Behrad comes back. He wriggled his way into my heart pretty quickly and I don't want him to stay gone 😞

[Lantern7]

NEGATIVES: Atropos killed Behrad by cutting his thread. Zardashian was busy talking with Zari 1.0 in her totem at that time, so she couldn't help. Atropos also wrecks Sara, John and Charlie, but she gets kicked off the ship . . . which probably means she'll land somewhere and screw things retroactively. Oh, and a bunch of working humps got killed because they were in the wrong place (was it specifically Vancouver? Or just in British Columbia?) at the wrong time (working on the final season of Supernatural)

POSITIVE: Lita trick-or-treating with her dad. Dressed as Leonard Snart. I think the two words that popped in my head upon seeing that were "MY HEART!" Of course, Mick and Ava screw things up, but at least nobody got killed.

Behrad's death felt too telegraphed, at least when Atropos (hey, no red squiggles) happened upon him and Zari while looking for Loom parts. Also sad imagining him and Zari being a sibling act with the totem. Nate? Still a dope. Funny that Zari wakes up in his room, and the first thing she sees is a scooter.

Are any other CW shows mentioning Supernatural? Actually, this feel too forced. Sara strikes me as a fan, though I'm guessing she had to binge the series on the Waverider to make up for the years she was presumed dead. Also, actually dead. Dean being her "Hall Pass" also seems legit. I wonder if Ava has something similar.

Oh, and Caity finally get the first credit! No disrespect to Brandon, but I found Sara to be a more important character than Ray.

At least Ava's heart was in the right place. And she didn't try to bite Mick's head off when he said the c-word. The montage was cute.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, man!  Here I was hoping that Behrad might get upgraded to regular status with Brandon Routh (sniff!) and Courtney Ford gone (sniff!), but they just straight-up kill him instead!  Well, there is a hope of Zari and Constantine somehow finding a way to save him, but it looked pretty definite for now.  But if I had to guess, it will probably end with her being able to say good-bye to him somehow, but him still not coming back.  Either way, I'm just a bit bummed out.  Credit to Shayan Sobhian for helping make him such a relatable character, despite only being in about ten episodes or so.  A lot of shows can't even make me get invested in certain characters after multiple seasons (including other shows in the D.C. Universe..)

No surprise, the scene with the two Zaris was fantastic.  Tala Ashe really has been one of the greatest casting decisions out of the entire D.C. shows.  I especially loved Original Zari's reaction to finding out that Behrad and her parents are alive now, and likely being perfectly fine to be stuck in totem because of that.  But I still wouldn't be surprised if this ends with the Original Zari coming back, after an exit for Zari 2.0. for whatever reason.

So, the next part of the Loom is hidden in the magical land of... British Columbia!  That's one way to save on the budget!  They clearly were having fun with the Supernatural references too.  I do wonder if it was ever in the cards to try and have one of the actors cameo here.

Is Atropus dead?  She seemed to be getting set-up to be a major baddie and she certainly did enough damage.  Can't see her exit being this quick.

The Mick/Ava stuff was a fun C-plot.  Mina Sundwall continues to be perfect casting for Lita.

As much as I miss Ray, I do like that his absence means Caity Lotz is now to top-billed star.  Started out as a recurring guest on Arrow, who gets killed off in one of the dumbest ways possible, to leading her own show.  Nice!

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by thuganomics85

[twoods]

What the hell show. First you get rid of Nora and Ray and now you kill Behrad? I wasn’t expecting that. This is supposed to be my happy show and the past few episodes it’s been so sad. At least Zari got to shine this episode. But blah.

[Featherhat]

I rolled my eyes so hard when the episode opened up to Zari having slept walked into Nate's bed because of their amazing connection or whatever and having to explain to everyone that they didn't have sex etc. But it got better! Until poor Behrad dying. That was brutal by Fate cutting his thread like in the Greek myths. I hope SS does come back, the character has been one of the best since Zari's introduction. 

Sara is a fan of Supernatural, well she would have been a good age for S1 and 2 before the island. And she looked Fate in the eye and won. Yeah that completely tracks with her life. I like Charlie getting more to do, MRS is selling it with the different aspects of Charlie. Kid Charlie was really cute for a moment. 

I knew Mick's snap shots weren't going to work because it was such a cheap fix. But I liked Ava using her clone experiences for good for once and they worked well together. Once again the C plot for DP but apparently he's happy enough and it does have more emotional resonance than some of his "just moan about no beer" subplots of the past. 

My real Zari in the totem! Tala Ashe is such a fantastic actress. The two Zari's were completely different in speech and mannerisms. Can we get original Zari back full time now? I've missed her so much Or merge them. I know she was content in the totem but that's got to change now her brother is dead again. She also looked like she was living in the genie's lamp. I realise that's supposed to be a design nod to her Iranian heritage but it was one step away from cliché Arabian Nights. 

I really did miss Ray even though BR often wasn't in episodes very much it's so weird to think we're never going to see him again. 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Featherhat

[Alice Mudgarden]

39 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Sara is a fan of Supernatural, well she would have been a good age for S1 and 2 before the island. And she looked Fate in the eye and won.

She'd so be a member of Team Free Will.

[Sakura12]

I guess the Gods never met the girl that doesn't stay dead. Or does being the paragon of Destiny make her not be swayed by the Fates? I wish we would get more about that, but I doubt we will since the writers made it clear they are not interested in writing stories for Sara unless it involves being a love interest. Sara having God powers would be great though. I mean she's a member of the Super Friends now. 

I do love that she's a Dean fan. I'm always team Jensen Ackles ever since he was on Dark Angel. Plus Sara would love a show where the characters die and come back more than she has. 

Loved seeing old Zari, has she been stuck in Totem world the whole time. How has she never seen Behrad. Didn't he say he goes there all the time? Or is because he's not supposed to be there, she can't see him. I will him. I really started to like him on the team. But they are really cutting down the team this year. First Ray and Nora, now Behrad. 

As for the Mick storyline. Having Ava help him was never going to turn out well. Ava has less life experience than Gary. Gary as far we know grew up from child to adult. Ava's an adult toddler. 

[blackwing]

If we can get awesome old Zari back with her amazing powers, I would gladly sacrifice Behrad.  Behrad doesn't use the totem like how Zari did.

This is supposed to be a superhero team, yet people hardly use their powers.  I feel like Nate uses his steel power once an episode at most.  I don't think he even used his powers at all this episode.  I just watched the episode an hour ago and can't even remember the explanation of where he was.  He wasn't looking for the loom ring and he wasn't with Mick and Ava or with Zari and Behrad, so where was he?

I want more people on this show with awesome powers that are actually getting used.  Sara and Ava have no powers.  Nate hardly uses his.  Charlie is mostly depowered.  Ray is gone so no more need for shrinking effects.  Nora is gone.  Mick uses his flame gun a few times.  Behrad/Zari hardly use their powers.  Is the entire special effects budget going to Constantine's powers?

The best thing about this episode is that there was no Gary.

[shantown]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Is the entire special effects budget going to Constantine's powers?

Another reason I hope he’s gone after this season. He’s been okay as a character, but I’m WAY over magic/hell/souls as the plot. Looking forward to seeing how things with the fates play out, then hoping there’s a purpose for time travel again next season. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

10 hours ago, shantown said:

Another reason I hope he’s gone after this season. He’s been okay as a character, but I’m WAY over magic/hell/souls as the plot. Looking forward to seeing how things with the fates play out, then hoping there’s a purpose for time travel again next season. 

Same here. Constantine is my least favorite character and it seemed like he had about 75% of the show.  
 

I'm hoping that they’ll keep both Zari and Behrad. I was surprised that since the two Zaris were talking when he was killed that they didn’t sense anything. I was half expecting that they would sense that he was gone and morph into some sort of a mix of the two Zaris. 

[tennisgurl]

No show, no no no, dont you dare! We just lost Ray and Nora, but at least they were allowed to get out alive, I dont want to lose Behrad like this! Especially after OG Zari was so happy that he was alive! I am hoping desperately that Zari and Constantine can find a way to weasel their way out of this death, because I am so not alright with this. I mean, what is the narrative point?Damn it shows I watch, stop killing people?!?

Other than that, this was a fun episode, even if I already really miss Ray and Nora. Its just not the same Waverider without Ray and his smile and his chore wheel! The stuff with the Fates is decently interesting, and I am glad that Charlie is getting more to do, I feel like she has been a bit underused lately. We even got to see some of her old band mates...even if that didn't go well for them. 

Of course, the big moment of the episode was Zari meeting Zari! Tala Ashe is, of course, brilliant, and does a great job showing the differences between the two Zaris, even giving them different body language and tones of speaking. I missed you, OG Zari! So I guess OG Zari has been chilling in here with the other totem people (so does she gets to hang out with Amaya?!) which is better than being erased from existence like I thought had happened, even if she is rather bored. The two Zaris are kind of confused by each other, but Zari is insanely happy to hear that Behrad and her parents are alive, so she is happy with how things have worked out even if she has to stay in the I Dream of Genie set. Of course, thats all going to become super depressing as soon as current Zari gets back to the Waverider, but for now, its just great to see OG Zari again! 

The snapshots idea was clearly doomed to failure, and getting advice on how to deal with people and their emotions from Ava is as good as asking Mick to do a fire safety demonstration, but at least it was well meaning, and it was cute seeing Mick showing up in his daughters life, including her Captain Cold Halloween costume! I am sure that Snart would approve! I liked how it ended at least, with Mick trying to be there for his daughter more and getting to know each other more. 

I know that we just did a bit crossover event, but this crossover with Supernatural was their weirdest one yet! Its all just super random and weird, but it did make me chuckle a few times, especially thinking of show runner Dabb wandering into a magical battle and getting a little singed with a fire ball or something. "How will they shoot season fifteen!" I knew it, this explains everything! 

Of course Sara can shrug off madness and death inducing a god, its Sara! She has died and come back to life so many times, you could stick her on an Easter card. 

[scarynikki12]

References to events of future episodes need to be tagged as spoilers in episode threads.

[Featherhat]

19 hours ago, blackwing said:

I want more people on this show with awesome powers that are actually getting used.  Sara and Ava have no powers.  Nate hardly uses his.  Charlie is mostly depowered.  Ray is gone so no more need for shrinking effects.  Nora is gone.  Mick uses his flame gun a few times.  Behrad/Zari hardly use their powers.  Is the entire special effects budget going to Constantine's powers?

They've had an issue with using powers and other SFX for a few seasons now. There were always multiple times no one or only one or two of them used them when they should have had the full team all out. I think Constantine and the magic/hell stuff is sucking what there is of the already very stretched budget. 

I do like Constantine but I am very ready to move on from magic/demons after this season. He's such a big character that he sucks up so much of the show even when he's not actually on screen that much. I get why they wanted to do this storyline but hope after he saves Astra or at any rate however the big plot thread from his own series is given closure, that he leaves. That would be a good end point for him. Or failing that he fades into being part of the crew and snarking not constantly doing spells and driving so much of the show. 

[darkestboy]

This was a great episode to come back with.

Charlie's sisters really do mean business and Atropos seems the worst of the Fates. Poor Behrad, even though it's likely his death won't stick.

Loved Zari and Zari. Just a brilliant meeting of minds/souls in this one and it seems like current Zari doesn't actually fancy Nate, which is also interesting.

Sara's superpower whatever it's supposed to be gave her an immunity to a Fate's true form and Constantine had his own back up this week.

The Supernatural references were amusing enough.

Like the Mick and Ava subplot with Lita too, 8/10

[Aeryn13]

I really enjoyed this one for the most part.

Charlie has been a criminally under-written character since her introduction so it`s nice they are giving her a real storyline now. 

It was great seeing OG!Zari back and her interplay with new!Zari. 

Sara got to have some badass scene and a set-up to get her own storyline that isn`t "cater to Ava`s relationship insecurities". 

I appreciate they are trying to do something with Mick and not just simply relegate him to background material but it feels weird and disjointed and still kinda C-story background material.

Killing Behrad was just mean. I`ve very much enjoyed his character this Season and I hope they won`t toss him overboard. But I do like when the show has some real pathos in it beyond just wacky hijinks 24/7.

The "romance" of Zari and Nate? Sigh. When they don`t go overly fratboy with Nate, he can be enjoyable but the characters never really clicked as romantic partners so allusions to their epic love connections just fall flat.     

The SPN mentions were amusing and I love that Sara is a Dean-fan. Those characters would click well for a short, hot fling and afterwards become good friends.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Aeryn13

[MarkHB]

Hmmm... a bisexual time traveler who can't die.... they've turned Sara into a short blonde Captain Jack Harkness!  Wonder if Barrowman's allowed to trade in his quiver for a pea coat on this show....

[Primal Slayer]

Just getting around to watching the episode....

Not a fan of the Mick storyline. They treat time like it's no big deal to be tampered with when its the driving force behind the show. But I feel like Mick has come to the end of his story on this show anyway so...they should've let him settle down with his baby mama and kid and kept Ray.

The Zari storyline has been fun, watching her continue to get glimpses of her past iteration and how being outside of her time is effecting her. Original timeline Zari still existing opens up some potential storylines with how changing time doesn't necessarily "fix" things completely and they still remain somewhere out there.

The Arrowverse finally finds a way to get their Supernatural crossover which was great. Just stop....stop killing Sara. She's died a million times, they driven it to the ground.

Killing off Behrad was sad, he was an enjoyable addition to the show. But I hate that they got the rings in the end. 

[Delphi]

Ugh,  I loved Behrad, and was prepared to hate him,  so killing him is rude af after sending Nora and Ray away. Bring him back.   There's no way to get a android form of Gidget with no scientist or engineer!!

I was kinda hoping the Zari's would merge,  but I guess we're stuck with new Z.

With Rory and Ava, I don't think either of them realized,  because they never had the experience really,  there is no way to make a puberty ridden sixteen year old not hate one of their parents. 

Loved Zari 1.0.

And regards to never using powers,  like said above it's always been like this.   Nate even referenced it last episode; Mercutio is so stupid, why didn't he just steel up again!?

Eta: I guess timeline anachronisms are cool and completely encouraged now.   Good to know. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Delphi

[immortalfrieza]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:11 PM, UNOSEZ said:

May be time for Mick to step off they don't give DP much to do anymore.

They've never really given Mick much of anything to do. All he's ever really done is stand/sit around making a funny comment ever so often and then point his heat gun at someone menacingly, hardly ever actually use it, and then it utterly fails to do anything even when he does. In fact, this daughter storyline is probably the most significant thing he's had to do since way back in season 1 as Chronos. I STILL say they should've used that as an opportunity to evolve Mick as a character and turn him into something other than just the dumb muscle.

On 5/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, Delphi said:

Ugh,  I loved Behrad, and was prepared to hate him,  so killing him is rude af after sending Nora and Ray away. Bring him back.

Yeah. The ONE time in these Arrowverse shows they replace a character with another character who is *GASP* NOT utterly horrible and even if tolerable definitely far worse than who they replaced they kill them off. Not that Behrad did much of anything either except being entertaining to watch but at least I didn't spend the whole time wishing OG Zari was there instead. If they had to have somebody die to demonstrate how much of a threat the two Fate sisters were they might as well just killed Ray and Nora since he had to be written off the show anyway.