S05.E05: Perpetual Adoration

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie and his militia arrive at Hillsborough to learn that Governor Tryon has proposed a rather unorthodox solution to deal with the threat posed by the Regulators and to resolve the growing political crisis.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ferjy]

I was afraid at the start that there would be too much of Roger and Brianna but their scenes weren’t too bad. I think a lot of that is due to Richard Rankin who is a fine actor, even if Roger is a dick (again he gets upset with Bree about Bonnet??). I still find Sophie’s acting wanting. Both opposite Roger and Claire. And a big thank you to the writers for not adding in any more Roger singing scenes.

I liked the flashbacks reminding us of Claire’s former life in another time. Both the Bonnet jewel and Claire’s scenes “back” in the future seem to be foreshadowing Roger and Brianna going back to their time with Jemmy. I guess we shall see. 

And Claire has succeeded with the penicillin. I guess now Dr. Fleming is going to have to invent something else! 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by ferjy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Roger continues to SUCK. Your wife is not obligated to describe her trauma and PTSD in great detail to you and you are not allowed to guilt trip her for wanting to confront the man who raped her. If she chooses to keep Bonnett's diamond, that's her decision. Roger can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

Brianna's trauma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roger's man pain about her trauma

I'm glad that Claire succeeded with her penicillin! I thought it was very sweet that Kezzie wanted to stay for his brother's surgery.

My favorite part of the flashbacks (heh, or flashforwards since they happen in the future) was seeing Claire's doctor friend again.

[sas616]

I didn't have a problem with Roger's reaction.   First, he couldn't understand why Bree would ever want to talk to the man that raped her (and to give him comfort).   But I think the clincher was that Bree confirmed that went because she thinks Bonnet is the father of her son.  Why wouldn't he be upset at the revelation?  

[BitterApple]

Wow, the show going back to modern times threw me for a loop. I wasn't expecting to see 1960's Claire again. I always liked Claire's scenes with Joe Abernathy, and was happy to see his return. 

Jamie casually killing Knox made the ep 03 debate over killing Beardsley even more ridiculous. 

I'm trying hard to be neutral on Roger, but he was being a dick. The reality is Jemmy's paternity is a 50/50 toss-up. Brianna telling Bonnet she was pregnant with the expectation he was going to die the next day, wasn't some reprehensible action; nor was accepting the diamond. At best, the stone is Jemmy's ticket home, at worst it can be sold and used for his financial support. Brianna would've been a fool not to take it. 

Does anyone else feel like the plot is moving really slow? We're five episodes deep and still bogged down with the search for Murtaugh. If it's currently 1771 or 1772, there's going to have to be a pretty generous time jump to get to the Revolutionary War (if they're planning it as part of S5). 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by BitterApple

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Wow, the show going back to modern times threw me for a loop. I wasn't expecting to see 1960's Claire again. I always liked Claire's scenes with Joe Abernathy, and was happy to see his return. 

Jamie casually killing Knox made the ep 03 debate over killing Beardsley even more ridiculous. 

I'm trying hard to be neutral on Roger, but he was being a dick. The reality is Jemmy's paternity is a 50/50 toss-up. Brianna telling Bonnet she was pregnant with the expectation he was going to die the next day, wasn't some reprehensible action; nor was accepting the diamond. At best, the stone is Jemmy's ticket home, at worst it can be sold and used for his financial support. Brianna would've been a fool not to take it. 

Does anyone else feel like the plot is moving really slow? We're five episodes deep and still bogged down with the search for Murtaugh. If it's currently 1771 or 1772, there's going to have to be a pretty generous time jump to get to the Revolutionary War (if they're planning it as part of S5). 

 

I don't think the war is this season.

[butterly17]

Pretty much hated this episode.  Roger was a dick ( and I'm a Roger fan!).  Brianna was stupid for going to see Bonnett in the first place.  Roger was a dumbass for caring, and acting disturbed that Bro thought Jemmy could be Bonnets...I mean Hello Rog, you know you pulled out that night, too?!?!  

Why act so hurt that Bri thought you might not be the bio dad? 

 

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

 

60s stuff. Zzzzz. What a waste of screentime.

Jamie needs to stop the murders.  Seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nara]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm trying hard to be neutral on Roger, but he was being a dick. The reality is Jemmy's paternity is a 50/50 toss-up. Brianna telling Bonnet she was pregnant with the expectation he was going to die the next day, wasn't some reprehensible action; nor was accepting the diamond. At best, the stone is Jemmy's ticket home, at worst it can be sold and used for his financial support. Brianna would've been a fool not to take it. 

Does anyone else feel like the plot is moving really slow? We're five episodes deep and still bogged down with the search for Murtaugh. If it's currently 1771 or 1772, there's going to have to be a pretty generous time jump to get to the Revolutionary War (if they're planning it as part of S5). 

 

I actually understand where Roger is coming from. Frankly, it’s normal for someone who has never experienced that kind of trauma to not understand the complex emotions that led Bree to visit Bonnet and say what she said.  (I remember a former boss who was sometimes nice and sometimes pervy to me. When he was fired I burst into tears, partially from relief and partially mourning the aspects of him that were good. And his behavior towards me was no where near as horrible as what Bree experienced. ) A logical person would assume that Bree would 1) never want to see Bonnet again, 2) Never want to forgive him, 3) let him die thinking his line died with him, and 4) consider his give an insult fling the diamond in his face.  When faced with the situation, though, people act in sometimes surprising ways.

Because Bree handles herself with strength and hasn’t wallowed in the rape, Roger mistakenly thinks she is unaffected and is therefore indulging his own insecurities—related to Jamie, related to Jemmy, related to not protecting Bree, etc. He’s making her lack of transparency about him, rather than about her need to protect herself. That’s pretty selfish, but human. I do hope they resolve his issues this season and move on.

I actually like the slower pace, to a point. The first season spent a lot of time on getting to know the world and characters, and since then it’s been one disaster after another. I like a slower pace, but would prefer more depth on known characters like Marsali and Fergus than the randomness of the stories with the woman who let her husband rot away and the star crossed couple.  Perhaps those will tie in more later.

Other musings...

I thought for sure that the romance novel in the beginning meant we would see Bonnet. Btw, it was a good reminder of how romances can have idiotic plots related to noncon sex leading to love.

I am glad someone mentioned the option of a university finally.

 I appreciate the sweet nod to former actors on the show in the name Graham Menzies!  I assume this was not a book character 😉

Will be interesting to see if Jamie experiences any long-term impacts from murdering Knox. It could create a further rift with Murtagh.

I wish they would age Jamie more. I get that Caitriona’s looks are more of an ageless quality so it’s easier to realistically age her up, but Sam looks younger than his real age IMO so it’s even more important to age him up.

So now Claire invents penicillin and Jamie invents...darts.  I am assuming the penicillin will come back and bite them somehow... 

 

[HerkyJerky]

The previews for next week look interesting.  What was that that the kitty had dropped?  Is that going to be a major plot point?  If so, poor Jamie!  No good deed goes unpunished...

[AheadofStraight]

11 hours ago, nara said:

 

 I appreciate the sweet nod to former actors on the show in the name Graham Menzies!  I assume this was not a book character 😉

 

 

It actually was a book character name, many years before Diana ever knew of Tobias!

[nara]

1 hour ago, AheadofStraight said:

It actually was a book character name, many years before Diana ever knew of Tobias!

Lol. I assumed it was a combo of Tobias Menzies and Graham McTavish! Maybe it was just fate!

[Cdh20]

13 hours ago, nara said:

I actually understand where Roger is coming from. Frankly, it’s normal for someone who has never experienced that kind of trauma to not understand the complex emotions that led Bree to visit Bonnet and say what she said.  (I remember a former boss who was sometimes nice and sometimes pervy to me. When he was fired I burst into tears, partially from relief and partially mourning the aspects of him that were good. And his behavior towards me was no where near as horrible as what Bree experienced. ) A logical person would assume that Bree would 1) never want to see Bonnet again, 2) Never want to forgive him, 3) let him die thinking his line died with him, and 4) consider his give an insult fling the diamond in his face.  When faced with the situation, though, people act in sometimes surprising ways.

Because Bree handles herself with strength and hasn’t wallowed in the rape, Roger mistakenly thinks she is unaffected and is therefore indulging his own insecurities—related to Jamie, related to Jemmy, related to not protecting Bree, etc. He’s making her lack of transparency about him, rather than about her need to protect herself. That’s pretty selfish, but human. I do hope they resolve his issues this season and move on.

I actually like the slower pace, to a point. The first season spent a lot of time on getting to know the world and characters, and since then it’s been one disaster after another. I like a slower pace, but would prefer more depth on known characters like Marsali and Fergus than the randomness of the stories with the woman who let her husband rot away and the star crossed couple.  Perhaps those will tie in more later.

Other musings...

I thought for sure that the romance novel in the beginning meant we would see Bonnet. Btw, it was a good reminder of how romances can have idiotic plots related to noncon sex leading to love.

I am glad someone mentioned the option of a university finally.

 I appreciate the sweet nod to former actors on the show in the name Graham Menzies!  I assume this was not a book character 😉

Will be interesting to see if Jamie experiences any long-term impacts from murdering Knox. It could create a further rift with Murtagh.

I wish they would age Jamie more. I get that Caitriona’s looks are more of an ageless quality so it’s easier to realistically age her up, but Sam looks younger than his real age IMO so it’s even more important to age him up.

So now Claire invents penicillin and Jamie invents...darts.  I am assuming the penicillin will come back and bite them somehow... 

 

Roger should indeed start a university!

I think Sam does look older with this new wig showing his forehead, without the bangs. 

Love 60's Claire-the hair & makeup are gorgeous.

[sab85]

That is one cute kitten.

Anytime the show wants to flashback (forward?) and catch up with Joe Abernathy is fine with me.

[Lola82]

On 3/16/2020 at 2:14 PM, Cdh20 said:

Roger should indeed start a university!

I think Sam does look older with this new wig showing his forehead, without the bangs. 

Love 60's Claire-the hair & makeup are gorgeous.

Sam definitely looks a lot older. I’m rewatching Season 1 and he looks like a teenager compared to the current look. I miss his shaggy hair.

[Cdh20]

42 minutes ago, Lola82 said:

Sam definitely looks a lot older. I’m rewatching Season 1 and he looks like a teenager compared to the current look. I miss his shaggy hair.

Which is kinda perfect since Jamie went from 22(18 in flashbacks), to 50 I think this season.

[ferjy]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:33 PM, Cdh20 said:

Which is kinda perfect since Jamie went from 22(18 in flashbacks), to 50 I think this season.

He looks 6 years older (2014 to 2020) certainly not 25-ish years older. Claire looks younger! The few grey streaks in her hair they’re trying to fool us with don’t quite do it, we’re not that daft. Like Superman and his glasses. 😁

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by ferjy
can’t spell

[zoey1996]

On 3/16/2020 at 12:13 AM, nara said:

I am glad someone mentioned the option of a university finally...

 So now Claire invents penicillin and Jamie invents...darts.  I am assuming the penicillin will come back and bite them somehow... 

 

On 3/16/2020 at 2:14 PM, Cdh20 said:

Roger should indeed start a university!

Harvard, 1636, Yale 1701, but no mention of William & Mary, chartered 1693 by King William and Queen Mary.

Darts! LOL!

On 3/16/2020 at 1:29 PM, nara said:

Lol. I assumed it was a combo of Tobias Menzies and Graham McTavish! Maybe it was just fate!

Must be fate.  I recognized Menzies, but not Graham (McTavish).

Edited to add, I thought Brianna should have made it clear to Roger that she overheard during the wedding celebration about Bonnett’s still being alive.  The way she said it sounded like someone told her directly.

Edited March 22, 2020 by zoey1996

[DoctorAtomic]

Holy shit, I barely recognized 'young' Claire in the church. Kudos to makeup. 

On 3/15/2020 at 12:07 AM, ferjy said:

And Claire has succeeded with the penicillin.

This is really the shit I signed up for. I know it's not a 'time-travel' show, but this and the whole 'batsuit' I really enjoy. 

I know I knock the show a lot, but there's enough I like to stick with it. The theme song alone is almost worth it. It's the only one of all my shows that I sit and watch.

On 3/15/2020 at 8:48 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Brianna's trauma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roger's man pain about her trauma

Back in the days of Penny Dreadful and sweaters we called that 'dainty' manpain.

On 3/15/2020 at 8:48 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My favorite part of the flashbacks (heh, or flashforwards since they happen in the future) was seeing Claire's doctor friend again.

I was really disappointed when Claire returned to the present because they basically were like, 'hey I'm a doctor. Sorry Frank. Let's go back.' Part of that was her doctor friend. Claire doesn't really have any friends per se. 

On 3/15/2020 at 10:13 PM, nara said:

I actually like the slower pace, to a point. The first season spent a lot of time on getting to know the world and characters, and since then it’s been one disaster after another. I like a slower pace, but would prefer more depth on known characters like Marsali and Fergus than the randomness of the stories with the woman who let her husband rot away and the star crossed couple. 

They really haven't done that since the first and second seasons. I felt like I knew those people and was completely immersed in the world for an hour each week. Other than Lord John, I don't really know these people that well. Even Fergus is basically a background guy handing out beers. 

I assume some people would be allergic to the penicillin Claire invented since they made a point of mentioning it twice. I mean, I still consider it a major help she was able to invent it, even if it helps only 5 people. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

On 3/15/2020 at 12:07 AM, ferjy said:

I was afraid at the start that there would be too much of Roger and Brianna but their scenes weren’t too bad.

No, but the problem is beyond either averting, avoiding, or mitigating the fire, I just don't care about their plot. Either Bree is whining or Roger is being henpecked by Jamie. I mean, I know the books were written a while ago, but sexual assault is such a tired trope as it is, especially in our current social climate. Then you throw in the baby to it. It's just way too soapy and derivative for me. 

I'm not clear on why the baby needs the stone to actually go through the stones. Bree and Claire don't. 

I know they were joking about the university, but why can't Roger and Bree start a school in the region? They're certainly qualified. I mean, I'd have a hard time shooting, hunting too, but I'd be looking for ways to be useful. I can teach math and writing. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Cdh20]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

No, but the problem is beyond either averting, avoiding, or mitigating the fire, I just don't care about their plot. Either Bree is whining or Roger is being henpecked by Jamie. I mean, I know the books were written a while ago, but sexual assault is such a tired trope as it is, especially in our current social climate. Then you throw in the baby to it. It's just way too soapy and derivative for me. 

I'm not clear on why the baby needs the stone to actually go through the stones. Bree and Claire don't. 

 

Bree & Claire do need gemstones to go through the stones!

[DoctorAtomic]

Since when? Did she have it the first time? 

[Sew Sumi]

Claire had the diamond in her engagement ring. 

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

37 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Since when? Did she have it the first time? 

Yeah, season 3 Christmas Bree gives Claire a birthstone necklace for her stone trip and Claire mentions she was wearing a jeweled watch the first time she went through that covered that on the accidental trip.

ETA: oh and I think Bree used the jewel on her bangle from Roger. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Rilla-my-Rilla
Add detail

[Camera One]

This season is kind of strange.  The last two episodes were about random guest characters and this one focused on a random patient who died in the 1960s.  It was nice to re-visit that time, though the story of how Claire ended up visiting England again wasn't really that epic.

I appreciate the slower pace and having a bit less violence (the murder was relatively bloodless), and there were some nice quieter moments.  But I also find the pacing kind of strange.

Roger was again so lacking in self-esteem that he lashed out at Brianna who needed his support.  I mean, I thought it was ridiculous for Brianna to visit Bonnet to forgive him, but Roger totally over-reacted.  I did like the conversation between Roger and Claire, and I like that Roger apologized, though.

I can't say I blame Jaime for killing Knox.  I thought they were going to try to intercept that letter and doctor it. 

Claire said the patient tested "negative" for penicillin allergy.  Then she said, "The probability of a false positive is less than 5%. It's very rare. Unfortunately, he was part of that percentile."   I don't understand... wouldn't the patient have had a false negative?  

A few episodes ago, I looked up how to collect and purify penicillin if there was an apocalypse and it seemed very difficult.  So I'm surprised Claire actually succeeded.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Camera One

[DoctorAtomic]

I was complaining about Roger's lack of agency all season. 

[Beeyago]

18 hours ago, Camera One said:

this one focused on a random patient who died in the 1960s. 

My assumption when I see these bits of randomness (especially in this case) is that they’re going to make sense later.  They’re dropping breadcrumbs that will tie together in future seasons.  But I could be totally wrong and really were just random. Lol

[gingerella]

Well, well, well, things are picking up for Show now...I know I've been bagging on this show the past two seasons for a lot of inconsistencies and just plain old dumb plot points and useless tertiary characters BUT, I did indeed enjoy this episode more than most since S02. Why? I think it's because it's slower paced and for me it harkens back to S01 & 02 in it's overall pacing, vibe, etc. More specifically, and in no particular order, shall we get to it then?

* 1960's/70's Claire...please and thank you! Love 60's Claire! She's so sure of who she is, despite all she's lived through being transported back to the 1700's, falling in love with Jamie, all the exploits with Jamie & crew. I enjoy seeing her on firmer footing as a doctor in the 60's & 70's!

* @SassAndSnacks, I am now forcing meself to listen to the entire opening song as a way of honoring your deep and abiding love of S05's opening tune, it's growing on me...slowly, like mold or mildew, but it's growing on me. Perhaps because I heard an ad for S06 and the new song is AWFUL!

*I loved the opening flashbacks from S01 onward! There was soooo much great stuff in that sequence and I longed for the purity of the story back then. And then something funny happened and the episode unfolded and gave me a little of that old feeling back again!

*Liked the Scotsman who died of penicillin reaction, and his connections to Scotland, and to Tobias Menzies with his surname. Nice show, I was wondering where you were going with that one but you tied it up like a nice little present.

*It was painful to watch Jamie bootlicking Lt. Knox & Gov. Tryon. At first I thought Knox was giving Jamie a story about pardoning the Regulators to see Jamie's reaction, because that's what this Show has done to my psyche when I watch it. Then he only wants Murtagh killed? Murtagh cannot be the President of the Regulator Club, can he? There's other guys, why him?

*Cringing at the surgery...uch!

* Bonnet, soooo tired of him, at this point if I could I'd go into the story and kill him myself, just so we don't have to deal with the Roadrunner style anvil hanging over our collective heads anymore!

* And Roger leaves Brianna AGAIN at a bad moment (a la the handfasting fight). I thought for SURE, Bonnet would show up again and attack her and steal the baby, all whilst Rog is off sulking in the woods. Again, this is what this show does to me.

* 'No one's lost, who's not forgotten'. I really loved that, it was so illustrative of how both Jamie and Claire kept the other alive in their memory for those 20 years they were apart.

* Chess with Lt. Knox, I was worried another Lord John sitch was coming, again, this is what the show has done to me. Damn you show.

*I MISS JOE ABERNATHY. There, I said it. I love any excuse for more Joe, he's such a great character.

* Loved the call back to Jamie's mother's cat, Adso. I like when the show throws and anchor to the past in there.

* So Graham Menzies death was 'THE' catalyst for Claire finding Jamie again! Loved that, it was such a small story blip, but such a HUGE plot point.

* Loved Claire's whole exposition about 'The nature of time...' It was a nice reminder that this is, after all, a story that is only happening because of Time Travel.

[SassAndSnacks]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:55 PM, gingerella said:

it's growing on me...slowly, like mold or mildew, but it's growing on me. Perhaps because I heard an ad for S06 and the new song is AWFUL!

I'll take it.  Mold is important, as Claire has reminded us.  I heard the new song, too, and it was a hard no from me.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 7:55 PM, gingerella said:

I MISS JOE ABERNATHY. There, I said it. I love any excuse for more Joe, he's such a great character.

I love him so much.  The show could use more of him and should have incorporated him more in Season 3.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 7:55 PM, gingerella said:

Chess with Lt. Knox, I was worried another Lord John sitch was coming, again, this is what the show has done to me.

My favorite part of this entire exchange was that it reminde me of Season 1's "The Watch".  Jamie had killed Horrocks, the Watch was hanging around Lallybroch and looking for Horrocks.  At breakfast, Jamie is confronted about killing him.  Jamie casually sits back in his chair, butters his bannock, and is like "Yup, I killed him, and?"  

This scene with Knox had a very similar vibe.  Jamie leans back in his chair and casually throws out the truth.  Loved it.  

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

My favorite part of this entire exchange was that it reminde me of Season 1's "The Watch".  Jamie had killed Horrocks, the Watch was hanging around Lallybroch and looking for Horrocks.  At breakfast, Jamie is confronted about killing him.  Jamie casually sits back in his chair, butters his bannock, and is like "Yup, I killed him, and?"  

This scene with Knox had a very similar vibe.  Jamie leans back in his chair and casually throws out the truth.  Loved it.  

I totally missed that call back, and you know I love a good call back so thank you for reminding me!

[mythoughtis]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:39 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

I'll take it.  Mold is important, as Claire has reminded us.  I heard the new song, too, and it was a hard no from me.

I love him so much.  The show could use more of him and should have incorporated him more in Season 3.

My favorite part of this entire exchange was that it reminde me of Season 1's "The Watch".  Jamie had killed Horrocks, the Watch was hanging around Lallybroch and looking for Horrocks.  At breakfast, Jamie is confronted about killing him.  Jamie casually sits back in his chair, butters his bannock, and is like "Yup, I killed him, and?"  

This scene with Knox had a very similar vibe.  Jamie leans back in his chair and casually throws out the truth.  Loved it.  

Except Jamie didn’t kill Horricks,  Ian did before Jamie could.   Not that Jamie has ever shied away from killing anyone he thought needed it. 

[gingerella]

11 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Except Jamie didn’t kill Horricks,  Ian did before Jamie could.   Not that Jamie has ever shied away from killing anyone he thought needed it. 

Well, if Ian hadn't done it when he did, Jamie would have, so potato/potahto ;)

May I ask, are you watching all the episodes and just only posting in a few random ones or are you skipping around? I was wondering since you only post in a few episode per season.

[mythoughtis]

1 minute ago, gingerella said:

Well, if Ian hadn't done it when he did, Jamie would have, so potato/potahto ;)

May I ask, are you watching all the episodes and just only posting in a few random ones or are you skipping around? I was wondering since you only post in a few episode per season.

My sister recommended this series to me a few weeks ago.  I’m watching all of them in order.  So this is the last one I have seen.  Since I am so late to the party, a lot of what my thoughts are about episodes have  been mentioned by other commenters.  So  I don’t always  feel the need to post.  

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

My sister recommended this series to me a few weeks ago.  I’m watching all of them in order.  So this is the last one I have seen.  Since I am so late to the party, a lot of what my thoughts are about episodes have  been mentioned by other commenters.  So  I don’t always  feel the need to post.  

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I wonder if your sister was as frustrated with the same things we all saw?!