S06.E13: Grodd Friended Me

[Trini]

Feeling overwhelmed with all the changes since Crisis, Barry conducts an experiment that goes awry and puts him directly in Gorilla Grodd's (voiced by David Sobolov) path. Expecting the worst, Barry is surprised when Grodd asks for his help. Unfortunately for both The Flash and Grodd, things get worse when another villain appears - Solovar (voiced by Keith David).

Meanwhile, Iris works with Eva (guest star Efrat Dor) to escape the Mirrorverse.

Stefan Pleszczynski directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Joshua V. Gilbert.

Airdate: 2/25/2020

 

[Trini]

Love it!

 

[BeautifulFlower]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

Love it!

 

I didn't recognize him at first. We haven't see Pied Piper in so long that I thought it was a new actor. I can only recognize him by his glasses.

 

Moving on:

Besides some parts, this episode was boring.

So Grodd is good now? Okay, sure. I actually was expecting him to betray Barry, but no. Why in the world did Argus just take Barry's word that Grodd changed?

I knew Eva couldn't be trusted. So Mirror Iris seems to be a copy of Eva. Whatever happens to Eva happens to her? I'm really interested in this story. What is Eva plan?

Mirror Iris is going to slip up on something and the others better start noticing.

Why not just have Caitlin in this episode? Killer Frost spouting all that nonsense made no sense. She shouldn't know all of that. Can these writers please keep up with their own rule.

Barry was able to run around and check every cemetery in Central City, but Chester was able to find them like that?

I really don't care with what's going on with Nash.

[Primal Slayer]

Overall decent episode....Having 2 completely new people on the team...on comms...with no OGs feels sooooo weird. Sure they are the only ones there so TF doesn't seem crowded but...it's pretty crowded now. I wish they would've worked with what they had instead of finding replacements since it forces them to think outside the box.

So now Pied Piper practically has a glorified Canary Cry but green? If we needed to add anyone to the team...they should've added him! I enjoyed him when he appeared last though it's weird to bring in a semi-major guest character for a completely random scene.

Still weird that the Paragons don't have Prime-memories but everyone else has both set of memories.

Honestly could care less about Nash and his storylines. Unless it leads to a major merge of Wells and we get OG Wells back....just let him disappear.

They keep doing a good job with Grodd, The Flash can give us like a solid 5mins of actual screentime for a CGI gorilla but Supergirl can't even give us Martian Manhunter for longer than 2 seconds.

[SevenStars]

21 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

 

Why not just have Caitlin in this episode? Killer Frost spouting all that nonsense made no sense. She shouldn't know all of that. Can these writers please keep up with their own rule.

 

DP actually answered this on Twitter, she said KF and Caitlin share information/knowledge. Which doesn't make sense base on what the show told us this season. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by SevenStars

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, SevenStars said:

DP actually answered this on twittee, she said KF and Caitlin share information/knowledge. Which doesn't make sense base on what the show told us this season. 

We know that they speak to each other? I feel like that's been established. 

[BeautifulFlower]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know that they speak to each other? I feel like that's been established. 

Yes, they speak with each other. The scene just would've worked better with Caitlin.

[SevenStars]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know that they speak to each other? I feel like that's been established. 

We know they speak to each other but base on past episodes it was established that KF didn't have Caitline's medical/scientific knowledge. That they only know what the other "verbally" share. 

So in this episode, we should have been seeing Caitlin, not KF. She is the one who has the knowledge to help Barry. At least that is what the show established in 6A.

Edited February 26, 2020 by SevenStars

[SevenStars]

Anyway, at this point, it feels like the writers decided to just "erease" Caitlin and call it a day. At least for now, until they reboot her character again .

[shantown]

Didn't Ralph find Sue Dearborn last week? Did these air out of order?

I liked that there were actual, tangible effects from Crisis this week. All the shows have been operating pretty much the same as pre-Crisis so it was nice to finally see that things were actually different besides everyone being on the same Earth (and still never hanging out, hah!). It was weird though that Barry couldn't find his parents graves. He didn't think to search local cemeteries? I appreciated that Chester found it for him though.

Chester was a bit overwhelming with the geeking out, but who wouldn't be geeking out in that situation? By the end of the episode he had endeared himself to me. I missed Cisco, but I like Chester and Kamillah as part of the team. I hope she gets more development soon too. 

Speaking of Cisco, it's weird that he could give all the super team members memories of both universes, but he can't give the Paragons memories of this world?

Excited to see what happens with Eva and the mirrorverse! Definitely intrigued by that story. Not intrigued by Allegra and Wells. 

WALLY NEXT WEEK! 

[phoenics]

I figured something was up with Eva and Siri last week, but I just wasn't sure what - I just knew something was bothering me.  I knew she was gonna go dark the  moment she sent Iris away.

But - how does Siri know so much about Iris? Is she a mirror duplicate that Eva controls?  Like Eva controls the mirror fragments?

Chester still feels like an Eric Wallace self-insert to me.

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know that they speak to each other? I feel like that's been established. 

Yes, but Frost was spouting out that information as if that she knew it. And since we know that Frost has had many instances where she's brought out Caitlin to spout off that kind of knowledge because she wasn't equipped for it...it felt like lazy retcon. 

I wish they just said that one of the changes in Crisis was Frost/Caitlin merging. That would make more sense than Frost suddenly being able to do science. Again, just because they talk, it doesn't mean that Frost herself should suddenly be an expert in the science field. That's Caitlin's turf. But, then again, we've also seen Frost get softened lately just to incorporate her more on the show. 

The episode was alright. I did actually like Grodd returning and him and Barry teaming up. That worked fairly well for me. I am glad that they found a way to get me to like Kamilla. After me hating her last season, I did like her role in this episode. But...Chester is one who I could do without. He was alright as a bit character, but I don't need to see him take on a bigger role after this. He's just way too much for me.

Meh to anything Nash. I don't know why he's seeing all versions of Wells, nor do I really care. 

I figured Eva would be shady in some way. I was hoping that she was more driven crazy by the loneliness...but alas, they seriously hinted that she's just fine and using Iris to probably get out of Mirror World and maybe even use her new powers to take over. I'm trying to figure out her real connection with Siri and what they have planned, but it does kind of answer the question about how Siri came to be. She was with Eva before Iris showed up in Mirror World.

Pied Piper! I recognized Hartley immediately and may have squealed. I do laugh at them, once again, changing his character's motivations and morality. Now he's back to being a villain. 

[Josh371982]

So Thawne is coming back and Eva is Evil for some reason?

[bobbyjoe]

Is this show having serious money problems this season?  It’s hard not to notice they’re seriously falling into “always be missing at least one main character/introduce a lot of less interesting (i.e. cheaper) secondary characters” syndrome.  Plus, the gorilla effects on this episode were really bad— they felt like 3rd rate video game graphics at points— and Grodd has looked much better in the past.

Money aside, the show is making the same mistakes a lot of shows make when they weaken with age:  the good characters are often separated, you start to have characters off-screen or trapped in some lazy side story for way too long, you introduce a potentially good idea (Sue Dearborn, the aftermath of Crisis, the returns of Pied Piper & Grodd) and then go nowhere interesting with it (both of the last two episodes are prime examples of this)— I’m really losing patience.  C’mon, show, you can do a lot better than what we’re getting lately.

[Lantern7]

So. I am good with Chester. I can identify with him geeking out over every little thing at STAR Labs. But I feel he has to dial it back. REALLY far back.

Interesting episode involving post-Crisis fallout and Barry having to accept the new reality . . . one where Grodd may have seen the error of his ways. Given the amount of shit Grodd has given Barry, can you blame the guy for not trusting the telepathic gorilla? But they put aside their differences, and Grodd is more neutral than evil. For now, anyway. Also, we get a fusion with a super-fast Grodd with a bolt on his chest as he fights Solovar. Who is voiced by Keith David. I get the criticisms of budgets and characters being too spread out, but I'm still entertained.

Meanwhile, Siri continues to run around being shady (not outright evil), and it turns out Eva is as well. I'm not sure how much more mirror-based hinjinks I can take . . . though Eva burning her arms sticking them through the mirror was jarring.

Honesty, couldn't Barry have found his parents' resting place through the Internet? Seems like a no-brainer.

15 hours ago, shantown said:

WALLY NEXT WEEK! 

Wally in two weeks, actually. And I gotta love how he comes back. "The Speed Force is wrecked. What did you do, Barry?" Because if there's someone to blame in situations like that, it's Barry.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Lantern7

[theschnauzers]

Quote

Pied Piper! I recognized Hartley immediately and may have squealed. I do laugh at them, once again, changing his character's motivations and morality. Now he's back to being a villain. 

It sounds as if the good pied piper created by Flashpoint in season 2 got reverted by Crisis, which Barry referenced. That’s a plus for post Crisis because having Andy Mientus back is a very good thing!

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, SevenStars said:

Anyway, at this point, it feels like the writers decided to just "erease" Caitlin and call it a day. At least for now, until they reboot her character again .

Pretty much. There have been multiple scenes where she's there instead of Caitlin for no reason or Caitlin is gone for episodes at a time for no reason. And it's not the first time that Frost has done medical stuff that logically should be in Caitlin's wheelhouse and the "Cisco explains Earth Prime" stuff could have been done with her as a scientist and as his close friend etc. 

It seems like they're done with Caitlin for the moment and prefer to have Frost's brand of snarkiness and petulant teen learning to be better over her. I'm not complaining about it at all but it is bringing up gross consent issues I know they won't really dive into. Still hoping we actually do get those with Iris and Siri. And now Eva. 

[Trini]

This episode was okay; glad I kept my expectations low. I did like the Barry/Grodd/Chester plot. Barry hasn't had many heart-to-hearts with a villain, and a team-up too! Grodd as a 'good guy' should be interesting the next time we see him. It was nice that Chester found the Allens' gravesite, but it didn't make sense that Barry couldn't find it himself.

I wish there had been a scene with Barry visiting the graves. (Just cut the the irrelevant Nash scenes.) Also they should have had a better resolution to Pied Piper; they could have shown Barry arresting him. And we didn't even find out what history happened between him and Team Flash

Cool that they showed us that Crisis changes aren't just doppelgangers and different timelines.

Wallace needs to be less obvious with his self-insert, Chester; though I like him. Not liking that Kamilla and Allegra were in this episode but weren't doing any Team Citizen stuff.

As noted, it's weird to have Killer Frost playing Caitlin's role. I know that they like KF more than Caitlin, but make it make sense.

Disappointed we didn't get more Iris - either version.

Aw, was I the only one hoping that Eva was sincere?  I was surprised at such a direct reveal, but I'm glad it's out. It answers some questions, but now I've got a bunch more!

More thoughts later...

[thuganomics85]

With respect to Grodd, the return of the Pied Piper was my favorite part!  A little bummed that Crisis apparently made him go back to his nefarious ways, but Andy Mientus is just spot-on as Hartley, and I always felt we should have had more of him (granted, I could say that about a lot of the villains.  I would be quite content if Mark Hamill popped in every season as The Trickster!)

As for the actual main plot, it was alright, I guess.  But it just mainly boiled down to Barry accepting that Grodd has changed and them defeating Gorilla Keith David... err, I mean Solovar with the power of friendship and combining their powers.  Cool.  Although, I'll give Grodd credit for being wise enough to transform into Joe for the big speech, because if anyone can sell a monologue to convince Barry to change his feelings, its Jesse L. Martin!

Chester has his moments and the actor is charming enough, but the cynical part of me is just side-eying him, because I just have a feeling they might be setting the character up to take over for Cisco, because I'm paranoid that Carlos Valdes wants out (or maybe reduced screen time), and a change is happening.  I hope I'm wrong, but the lack of Cisco these past seasons have made me suspicious.

Poor Iris can't catch a break, huh?  It turns out that Eva is actually plotting this entire thing with Siri and is the one pulling the strings.  I wonder what her deal is?  Speaking of Siri, while I felt she "played Iris" well enough to fool Barry, she really was blatantly off around Joe, and it has made him look really daft to just casually dismiss her outburst and other behavior like that.

So, not only is Nash now hallucinating Sherloque as well, the hallucination is actually able to physically touch him.  It also looks like it might be an actual set-up for the return of Eobard/Reverse Flash.  Wish I could be more excited by this, but I will only care if it ends up being Matt Letscher's version instead.  Because while I have nothing but respect for Tom Cavanagh's talents, it feels like he's just been phoning it in for the past few seasons.

[Starry]

Almost everything about this episode annoyed me.

The A plot with Grodd was boring.

I like Chester but I agree that he's an obvious Wallace self-insert and Cisco replacement. I don't need the team to stay the same from the beginning until the end but to bring in a new character who can do the exact same things Cisco could do and has already proven he's more capable than Barry just feels wrong.

Chester pointing out that black people don't get second chances and Frost being the one to essentially tell him that Team Flash isn't racist? Meh. Frost being an expert in all things science just like Caitlin? Double meh.

Cisco, Caitlin and Wells are all replaceable and the writers couldn't make it more obvious.

If Barry is upgrading Gideon to scan for Crisis changes then what's the point of Cisco's trip?

SirI is so connected to Eva that if one burns so does the other. She talked about Eva doing that to them so does that mean that SirI is a part of Eva but looks like Iris and is using her memories and experiences to trick everyone? This show needs to tell me that Barry hasn't had sex with his fake wife. Or don't bring it up at all so I can stick to my headcanon that they haven't done it. Time to be prudish.

Can Iris get out of there already? I need to see Iris bring down Black Hole and interact with Team Citizen and Joe and Barry. I wonder for how many episodes they are going to keep WestAllen separated so that Barry doesn't realize that SirI is a fake. This is treading water and I am already bored.

I get that this is a sci-fi show but Allegra having one set of parents on one Earth and a different set of parents on another does not work for me. If she's Nash's bio daughter that means that on what used to be Earth-1 she had to be Harrison Wells' kid. But for all we know he died childless and I don't think the show wants to introduce a Harrison long-lost daughter plotline.

I was very annoyed. At least Andy Mientus is back as Pied Piper. Silver lining.

[UNOSEZ]

Well Nash kept saying not hia daughter.. I imagine at least not biologically... But maybe this wells had the same fatherly relationship thawne a had with Cisco... Minus the villiany and murder

If chester is done being super amped.. Im good with him. And in a vacuum his reactions and who they showed him to be even before this makes sense... But I'm an arrowverse watcher.. Meaning I watch all the shows... Curtis was just too much.. Now I agreed/defended him sometimes in my back and forth with the Olicity/OTA crowd on the arrow boards but still.. He was a lot... So I don't need or want a rehash of that dynamic... If he is an insert or EW.. I'm not totally mad at that... I mean I don't really remember in 6 years Joe or Cecile, Iris or Wally saying anything about being black.. Even in this seemingly more tolerant CW arrowverse( Jimmy O brought it up.. In season one when rhe shiw was on CBS)  so him bringing it up at all was a step in the right direction... Of the ppl available I guess frost was the best to talk about second chances.. I mean she was a villain... 

Ignoring how she seems to have gained Caitlin's medal knowledge I liked Frost tonight.. Less snark.. And a bit more of Caitlin's empathy as she played mother Hen to Nash and Chester's problems.. While also QBing the mission... Reminded me that I do like DP on this show.. And it was the fandom and the show never having her and iris speak or having frost apologize to iris that had never giving her the proverbial cold  shoulder 

[Simba122504]

10 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

So Thawne is coming back and Eva is Evil for some reason?

I guess they said fuck it. Original recipe Wells was killed by Thawne, so at this point the Thawne version of Wells shouldn't even be.  But TPTB at this point prefers to use the Wells version of Thawne. The actor is a regular and the real Thawne is hard to get. 

[UNOSEZ]

I dunno if Eva is evil.. But she's def got some plan and is using Siri to get it done.. I don't think at least yet she wants to hurt team flash.. But she's not above using them to get to carver.. How far she'll go is I guess how we determine how bad she is. 

[adora721]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Chester has his moments and the actor is charming enough, but the cynical part of me is just side-eying him, because I just have a feeling they might be setting the character up to take over for Cisco, because I'm paranoid that Carlos Valdes wants out (or maybe reduced screen time), and a change is happening.  I hope I'm wrong, but the lack of Cisco these past seasons have made me suspicious.

 

This episode just reinforced how essential Carlos' Cisco is to the show. He has a genuine energy that no one else brings, not even Chester. Even after six seasons, Carlos manages to bring his A game to whatever the script demands. If Carlos is leaving, he'd be an asset to any show or movie. And he's been nerfed enough by this show.

Victorial Park (Kamilla) continues to be a bland actress; she has zero energy in her scenes or line delivery. 

Killer Cait is... just merge them already. There's no amount of talking between Cait and KF that would make KF say all those words so easily as if second nature. KF didn't hesitate on anything; there was no sense that Cait was feeding her the words.

So, were they just going to let Barry die without even one of them attempting to call his wife or father-in-law before that happened?

I don't trust Grodd; he'll revert to his villainous type now that he's free. Loved when Grodd said, "Caitlin betrayed Grodd." I thought, well that what Caitlin does best - betrays.

I still believe Eva ultimately means well despite her shady methods. She's been trapped for six years and has watched her husband turn her company into a criminal organization. I suspected that whatever Siri was doing was either about revenge or justice for Carver's wrongdoings. At least Eva:

• Hasn't instructed Siri to sleep with Barry (Siri has been less than affectionate with him).
• Hasn't hurt any member of the team or spilled any Team Flash secrets.
• Hasn't hurt the real Iris (yet). Eva hurt herself unlike another villain who stabbed Barry in the leg twice in S3.

I also suspect that Eva is a little bit mentally unstable after six years of isolation. Having the real Iris with her might help Eva regain some mental health and then Eva might come clean about Siri to Iris. Iris, Siri, and Eva want the same things: Destroy Black Hole and bring Carver to justice. Eva might be Iris' Leonard Snart.

Edited February 26, 2020 by adora721

[mrspidey]

Did Chester say "Thank Rao!" there at the end? Is Raoism an actual religion now on Earth-Prime?

[UNOSEZ]

11 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

Did Chester say "Thank Rao!" there at the end? Is Raoism an actual religion now on Earth-Prime?

He did.. Well 3 trillion changes..  Maybe if not  religion... Possibly more is known about kryptonian life in general 

[Lantern7]

34 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

He did.. Well 3 trillion changes..  Maybe if not  religion... Possibly more is known about kryptonian life in general 

1. Finding out you have to deal with that many changes in reality should rank as annoying as talking to Dr. Manhattan, a guy who knows every word of the conversation.
2. Maybe Chester likes a certain brand of Marinara sauce. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[shantown]

15 hours ago, shantown said:

WALLY NEXT WEEK! 

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Wally in two weeks, actually. And I gotta love how he comes back. "The Speed Force is wrecked. What did you do, Barry?" Because if there's someone to blame in situations like that, it's Barry.

Wally in two weeks! Just happy we'll see him again.

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, shantown said:

Wally in two weeks! Just happy we'll see him again.

Thank Rao and Praise Beebo wally is on the way.. Maybe he'll be less forgiving of Siri acting too weird and bring it up... Tho seems like whatever is bringing him back is pretty major so he may be preoccupied 

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

He did.. Well 3 trillion changes..  Maybe if not  religion... Possibly more is known about kryptonian life in general 

They did a humans converting to Rao-ism storyline on Supergirl in S3 to do with the whole Reign thing and Kara basically thought they were nuts, partly because their leader was. So maybe that now happened on Earth Prime with some people automatically attracted to "exotic" (to them) religions. I don't think Kara is really going around talking about it or Krypton in general though. 

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Meaning I watch all the shows... Curtis was just too much.. Now I agreed/defended him sometimes in my back and forth with the Olicity/OTA crowd on the arrow boards but still.. He was a lot... So I don't need or want a rehash of that dynamic...

Curtis became unpopular on the Arrow boards when he started taking away half of Felicity's skill set and dynamic and then mansplaining down to her. Among other things. Which is a little of what people are complaining about here with Chester. It tends to happen with characters with similar skills on all these shows and with CV not being around makes it worse. 

[UNOSEZ]

10 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

taking away half of Felicity's skill set and dynamic and then mansplaining down to her

But wasn't he more tech based and her software.. I mean he built things.. I know both could do the others job.. Just not as well and usually he was the subservient one if both were working on coding or software stuff.. Or if she wasn't around... He did eat into her time tho.. And that did annoy some of the more vocal fans... When it comes to mansplaining, I generally let the women around me let me know if it is or isn't as my ears aren't as fine-tuned to it as them

[Trini]

15 hours ago, shantown said:

Didn't Ralph find Sue Dearborn last week? Did these air out of order?

...

He did, but then she disappeared again; so he's still looking for her.
 

14 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Is this show having serious money problems this season?  It’s hard not to notice they’re seriously falling into “always be missing at least one main character/introduce a lot of less interesting (i.e. cheaper) secondary characters” syndrome.  Plus, the gorilla effects on this episode were really bad— they felt like 3rd rate video game graphics at points— and Grodd has looked much better in the past.

If I'm not mistaken, the regulars get paid whether they appear or not. I attribute it to them streamlining storylines and scenes. The problem before was that there would be too many people hanging around doing the least; now only the characters that need to be there are present. (Huge exception with Nash/Wells, though.)
 

5 hours ago, Starry said:

... This show needs to tell me that Barry hasn't had sex with his fake wife. Or don't bring it up at all so I can stick to my headcanon that they haven't done it. Time to be prudish. ...

The show never talking about sex is coming in pretty handy right now! 😄

[theschnauzers]

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

He did.. Well 3 trillion changes..  Maybe if not  religion... Possibly more is known about kryptonian life in general 

I’m wondering if the attempted Krypton  Seg El cameo on Crisis (Cameron Cuffe confirmed the attempt but he had an acting commitment) is canon for Earth Prime anyways. That was the most in-depth use of Rao anywhere in the DCTV universe and would make the reference more understandable.

[Trini]

Closeup look at Rathaway/Pied Piper from Andy Mientus:

 

 

Loved seeing him back; but it was only for one scene. Maybe there was another scene but it got cut? I hope he can come back for more than a cameo later. I'm really curious about the new history of him and Team Flash.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Trini

[shantown]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Loved seeing him back; but it was only for one scene. Maybe there was another scene but it got cut? I hope he can come back for more than a cameo later. I'm really curious about the new history of himand Team Flash.

Yeah, they wasted his guest appearance this time around. It was a Grodd focused episode, they should have save Andy/Pied Piper for an episode where they explanded on Crisis changes more. That all got lost in the how much else was happening in this week’s episode. 

[Diapason Untuned]

The Grodd/Flash team up was interesting. Barry going "Run Grodd, Run" got a chuckle out of me. I have to say, Grodd did have a point about his imprisonment, even if it was necessary. 

I did empathize with Chester during his hallway chat with Frost.

He seemed to have picked up the wrong idea from his teacher and acts over the top because he's afraid of missing his one chance to impress people and prove himself.

It's odd to think this is probably the most The Flash has talked about race... ever. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Diapason Untuned

[tennisgurl]

I have generally been rather disappointed at the lack of changes in the post crisis world, so I was glad to get some focus on the differences that have occurred. Poor Hartley, he really is such a victim of the whims of the multiverse. Turns evil after the particle accelerator, turns good after flashpoint, turns evil again after Crisis, its enough to give you moral whiplash! 

It seemed kind of weird that Barry couldn't figure out where his parents were buried, but it was a good character beat, and I liked Chester finding their graves. Barry just seemed so miserable the whole episode, I guess Siri pulling away from him as "Iris" is taking its tool, plus everything else that has happened lately. 

I am still holding out hope that Eva might not be totally evil, and is more mentally unstable than evil and has some kind of less evil plan than we might have anticipated. So who actually is Siri? She is connected to Eva, but also knows enough about Iris to pretend to be her and she can leave the mirror world, so what the hell? Not much Iris OR Siri, but I am liking the stuff with Iris. Hopefully they can figure things out soon though!

I like Chester, and I think he had some good scenes this week, and while he was super over the top with his fanboying, and as others have said, a bit of a self insert, I can understand his excitement, and the actor is charming enough to pull it off. I do worry that this is the start of phasing Cisco out, which is the last thing I want to see. They have increasingly struggled with what to do with him, even sticking him with that dumb "I dont want powers" plot, and now have him gone for awhile, so I hope that they can find him a new story, and while I like Chester, I am not down with him replacing one of my favorite characters just because the writers have character ADD. 

Also, the show brings up race for the first time in ages, which is pretty interesting considering how much the show has avoided talking about race, only lightly tip toeing around it. 

But thats not as bad as Caitlin, who has just gone dormant, as the writers prefer Killer Frost over her these days. So, where does Caitlin actually go when KF is in the drivers seat? Is she asleep? Is she aware of what is happening and watching from her skull look in Inside Out? I guess its at least a little better than sticking Caitlin with yet another love interest to die and/or become evil, but only a little bit. 

The Grodd stuff was pretty good, Grodd still looks freaking great, and I am glad that he seems to have finally acknowledges what a dick he has been, throwing away every second chance he gets, until now at least. Run Grodd Run!

[Trini]

Re-watch thoughts:

I thought the plots with Barry were fine; I'm disappointed they didn't advance any of the ongoing arcs. But I guess the main point was to highlight the changes in the universe. Rathaway being a villain again could go somewhere, but I don't know if Grodd as a 'good guy' is as interesting. The Grodd/Flash teamup was cool, though. And I did like that they found a way to add Joe/JLM to the Grodd plot.

It was good to see Barry doing science-y things again. Does he really need a team at this point? (No.) It's interesting how they can now switch out Cisco and Caitlin with any combo of characters. Chester is going to have to tone down his enthusiasm, though; you're not a real member of Team Flash until you've been kidnapped! 😉

How exactly are they going to explain Harry's diary and Sherloque's machine if the multiverse doesn't exist, and hasn't existed (as far as they know)??

STAR Labs has a janitor? I guess it makes sense; but... how much does that dude know about Team Flash shenanigans??

All the things Frost did in this episode was Caitlin stuff; so ... they just like writing Frost's personality more, apparently.

So the show finally directly addresses race, however, but it's with a new, recurring character... and Frost. Weird choice.

Shallow notes: I liked the outfits they had for Chester and Kamilla. Siri's top was nice but not those pants.

I'm ignoring whatever is going on with Nash. Not even the tease of Reverse Flash interested me because I'm sure it'll be some type of fake-out.

(Thoughts on iris and Siri later...)

Edited March 2, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

It looks like Mirror-Iris is the 'official' name for Iris' clone; but I think Siri is better!

 

[Featherhat]

On 2/28/2020 at 6:00 AM, tennisgurl said:

But thats not as bad as Caitlin, who has just gone dormant, as the writers prefer Killer Frost over her these days. So, where does Caitlin actually go when KF is in the drivers seat? Is she asleep? Is she aware of what is happening and watching from her skull look in Inside Out? I guess its at least a little better than sticking Caitlin with yet another love interest to die and/or become evil, but only a little bit. 

At one point they were leaving notes for each other so there was some form of dormancy (about two retcons ago but three retcons in to KF/Caitlin) but now they seem to be sharing medical knowledge so Frost might have access to Caitlin and she's conscious but OK with not having control for long periods. Maybe she's just enjoying what is essentially a staycation? 

The idea of essentially not existing for days at a time and then periodically "waking up" to get back to you life for a minute is kind of freaking me out so I'd like them to clarify it but I doubt that will happen. Frost is more fun to write, Caitlin is fine with it, end of. 

[Trini]

I think the Iris/Eva/Siri parts were the most intriguing. I'm going to need our main characters to start figuring out these various mysteries soon, though.

Siri: First, she was Iris, but just slightly off. Then she was shady. Now she's being undeniably sneaky and stealing from the CCPD. This show is never subtle (but they've been getting better), so I'm expecting her to do something truly questionable or out of character for Iris soon, and Barry. Joe, etc. won't be able to excuse it away. So now she's got the mirror gun and info on Carver, what her (and Eva's) plan??

Eva: We only got a couple of reveals, but they were important ones. Again, I'm a little surprised it came soon, but I assume that means that Iris will figure out she's been manipulating things sooner rather than later. I appreciate that they're not wasting time.

So Eva is ... part of the clone? She was able to control the appearance of Siri; and the way Siri used "us" seems to indicate that. But Siri still has all of Iris' knowledge and communicates with Eva - so Eva knows that Barry is the Flash? What will she do with that??

Also, Iris is being played by Eva, and Barry is being played by Siri (who is also Eva??), so I'm going to need them to have Barry & Iris taking down Eva together to satisfyingly conclude this arc. It's been interesting to see Iris so closely tied to a main villain.

Now I have so many questions about Eva. She showed Iris that she got burned, but I'm thinking that reflective tech machine might actually the way out. I'm not fully convinced that Eva is trapped in the Mirrorverse. We now know that she has control over the mirror.

Is Siri the only clone that Eva has out in the world? Are there other people trapped in the mirrorverse? How much can Eva see and control with the mirror? How much control does she have over the clones? Is she aware of Black Hole? Is she behind Black Hole?? Why does she need the mirror gun? (She could probably build her own.)