S01.E10: Eilu v' Eilu

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Don't urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God.

Dropping on Amazon on Friday, February 21, 2020.

[Clare]

I finished this earlier.  I can't decide if I liked it or not.  I assume that the Meyer twist worked.  I'm not going back to watch but did he have any Meyer memories that didn't involve The Wolf?  or were all the other memories happen from the grandmothers perspective? 

When did the real Meyer die and when did Ruth get pregnant?  I didn't really follow when he took over his identity?

Also why did they take Joe?  did they just take the first member of the group or did they specifically take Joe for some reason? Poor Joe.

That last scene was crazy, maybe I should have expected it but I didn't.  Holy crap that was creepy.  I assume those twins were all parts of the Mengele experiments or were they clone experiments of some type? I know there were rumours of Hitler in Argentina so it's an interesting plot twist.  It didn't occur to me that The Colonel was Eva.

 

 

[RW88]

I feel like I liked the show better before this episode.  It was just a lot happening all at once and it just took me out of it.  It wasn’t even deep, it was just schizophrenic.  Too many twists, too many turns and without any linear throughput.  The twist with Meyer needed more bite.  The reveal didn’t feel “earned” if you will.  It wasn’t altogether shocking but it just felt like the breakneck pace in which it was handled left a lot of meat on the bone.  Which you can’t really retcon later to add depth because of how it played out.  It was the only interesting story and it was executed in the sloppiest way possible.

 

The Joe thing made no sense at all.  We could have “met the family” without him present.  Didn’t really see that his presence added anything to that scene.  It was really just another question mark without an answer.  And I think that was this episodes biggest failure, the questions left aren’t interesting enough for me to care about the answer because Joe’s not fleshed out enough for me to care.  It felt like watching someone try to be clever and failing.

 

The Harriet phone call and dossier went completely over my head.  I’ll probably go back and watch the scene for clarity but I think my brain was still stuck in a loop of saying “what?” to everything that happened prior.

All that said, I did like the show a lot until episode 10.  Upon reflection there are at least 4 or 5 characters they should have just cut completely because they just never mattered to the story at all.  I’m thinking specifically about Jonah’s friends.  The one dude was integral to the story but the other two just showed up occasionally for no reason and would disappear just as quickly.  That time could have been better spent on the other thinly written main characters.  As it stands, the remaining core lack cohesion and I don’t get why they’d go off to Europe together.  
 

If they get a season 2, I’ll probably watch it.  But I’m equally inclined to forget it ever existed.

[bourbon]

I enjoyed this. It was completely bonkers, but I enjoyed it. 

I suspected Meyer was not who he said he was, and perhaps he was even a Nazi. When we met him, he was watching "Seconds," essentially a movie about plastic surgery or assuming a new identity in a new body. And when he was meeting with the Swiss banker, the banker commented that Meyer's German was excellent. Not sure I bought the twist, but it was interesting.

However, it never solved the question of the impossible chronology. When did OG-Meyer and Ruth have a baby? He "disappeared" in November '45, which means Ruth would have to have been pregnant already. So, even if she gave birth in early 1946, her child Naomi would only have been 12 or so when Jonah was born. Or did they have a child before the war? I don't recall that being mentioned. It didn't make sense and seems kind of sloppy.

Two other things: there were references to Kramer vs. Kramer and Saturday Night Fever. Both of which came out after 1977. 

[Lillith]

I enjoyed it too. I had to sort of throw logic out the window, since so much of the timeline made little sense and there were quite a few anachronisms. Once I just went along for the ride it was more fun. So many questions of course. So is the Sister a double agent? So Eva Braun is the Colonel? Well ok then. 

I knew something was up with Meyer when he made a point of shutting up the Leni Refenstahl substitute. It occured he might have been a sympathizer or even a Nazi but not that particular one. 

If there's a second season I'll watch it but won't die if there's not. 

[Shorty186]

I hated this episode. I guessed the Meyer twist early on in the ep and really wanted to be wrong. How exactly do they explain his death or claim his fortune? I feel so sorry for Ruth. He always thought Meyer left her and even spent one-on-one time with The Wolf. And I never thought the dates and age of Ruth's daughter never made sense.

[Riplet68]

Wolf killed Meyer late 1945 in the refugee camp, Ruth was already pregnant and Wmeyer left her.

Jonah is 17 or 18, born sometime in 59 or 60.   Oooh, oooh, just had a thought.  Ruth said her daughter died and her light went out, than says this boy came along and her light came back.  NEVER do we see a baby Jonah, he’s always 5/6ish in flashbacks.  What if hes not really Ruth’s daughters?  But than Ruth told Wmeyer he had a grandson—-i think.  The group always talks about protecting Noah.  Hmmm

I liked how they used real events, operation paperclip, the NYC blackout during the summer of son of sam, wish theyd worked him in.

not happy that all the main bad guys are alive, figured out quads and Adolf as soon as they flashed argentina, knew colonel hadnt died, did not see her being Eva.

yeah, what happened to Jonahs friends, and wouldnt Millie be recruiting the team?

we never learned why Lonny or Joe wanted to ne on the team, and only got 1/2 of Roxies story (love her).

also knew something was wrong with Meyer when he killed the lady, but didnt sed hevwas Wolf.  I honestly thought most of the time the skeevy washington guy wsvthe wolf

Edited February 24, 2020 by Riplet68

[teddysmom]

15 hours ago, Lillith said:

So is the Sister a double agent? So Eva Braun is the Colonel? Well ok then. 

I think Harriet is getting help from somebody high up in the British gov't.  I don't know why she'd be a double agent, but I thought she might be during the first secret phone call when she said "they're onto us".  Then I thought she was talking about the Nazis knowing the Hunters existed. 

I think Ruth got pregnant in the refugee camp.  Meyer left her (according to the Wolf) at the camp, he came and took Meyer and left her a note and buried him in the woods. 

The daughter could have been 16 when Jonah was born, that's not out of the realm of possibility. 

When "Meyer" killed the woman film maker I knew something was up, then Ruth tells him he looks different, I kept wondering why young Meyer and old Meyer were so different, the actress playing young Ruth resembled her quite a bit. 

I thought the scene in the kitchen was going to be Ruth, Maury, and Aaron and I was dying. 

How did Lonny survive the stabbing, they didn't even explain him getting out of the subway. 

[zoig]

Specifically jumped on this board to discuss the messed up timeline of Jonah's birth date. 

According to Ep. 2, Ruth and Meyer met when he tattooed her with the Auschwitz-Number. According to Ep. 1 Jonah is 19 in 1977. So, he was born in 1958. Ruth told Meyer, that he was his grandson (Ep. 12).

All of this doesn't make sense, because Ruth's daughter had to be twelve when she had Jonah (which would physically improbable in the Fifties, because very few girls started to ovulate this young).

Meanwhile, I think too thst this is a plot point for season 2, Ruth had a secret (baby in a basket kind of story) and Harriet / Rebecca knows about it. 

[tomsmom]

Why would “Meyer” push so hard to find the Wolf when it’s him?? Makes no sense.

If theres a season 2 that means no Pacino? Only reason I watched.

[Geillis]

Went along for the ride on all the episodes, but the one thing that still bugs me is: How is it that these people are able to abduct and kill the Nazis who are now American citizens without arousing suspicion of the police, and why have none of them even been questioned in connection to these abductions and killings?   What did I miss?

 

 

 

[monakane]

1 hour ago, Geillis said:

According to Ep. 2, Ruth and Meyer met when he tattooed her with the Auschwitz-Number. According to Ep. 1 Jonah is 19 in 1977. So, he was born in 1958.

 

 

 

This bugged me throughout the series.  If his mother was born in 1945 and he was born in 1958, she would have given birth to him at 13.  Sloppy writing.

[AnimeMania]

The main characters were not well defined (Joe was the most fleshed out) almost just stereotypes, I don't know what is their skill set or motivation. The Nazis had better characterization. I am almost positive that Roxy is only in the group because she is the most recognizable as a late 70's themed iconic character. I am surprised that Joe wasn't doing any Kung Fu or using nunchucks. This seemed more like a Holocaust documentary that included some late 70's major New York event themed Nazi conspiracy theory fanfic. Short on action sequences, I felt a little cheated based on the way it was advertised. Why are they constantly getting owned by 70+ year old Nazis, that doesn't make for an enjoyable viewing experience. The Meyer reveal was totally stupid and implausible. All those scenes of Ruth and not one scene where she has a daughter. Harriet is just working behind the scenes to get the team to start hunting Nazi's in Europe. All those episodes to tell a cohesive story and all the plot lines never really mesh together. It was just a bunch of threads that never formed a whole let alone were strong enough to make sense when viewed individually. The only part I liked was the Nazi recruiting new members in prison and the Colonel reveal at the end. 

If they do make another season, they should go back and try to patch up all those holes they created in Season 1. If they start out on a strong foundation, that might work better, since the only people still on the team that seemed to be competent was Jonah and Harriet. Maybe they can pick up a few interesting members from Europe, while Millie finds some interesting members in America. Just pile on the action scenes and remember that people want the Nazi's to lose and a great Season 2 is possible.

[EarlGreyTea]

What a dissatisfying ending. This show was billed and touted as Nazis getting their just desserts, but there were many more significant victories that the Nazis gained over the Hunters that it really, really rankled. I sure didn't need to see that poor lawyer murdered, for one, nor La Familia Hitler enjoying a meal on the deck. I am sick of having to watch the good guys constantly getting the shaft. The ending, especially if it doesn't get a second season (and quite frankly, it shouldn't), was too depressing to just be a one and done show. Their angling for a season two left too many ties loose for me.

I kept waiting and waiting all season for the Hunters' backstories to be explored and to see how exactly they all came together but....it never happened. And I don't think I'll be watching season 2 to see if they deign to get around to explaining that.

The actor playing young Meyer was really handsome. I like Lena Olin as an actress, but the Big Bad as the undead Hitlers is overdone and too much for me.

In short, I enjoyed the discussion and discovering Greg Austin (Travis), but I'm out!

Edited March 6, 2020 by EarlGreyTea

[slowpoked]

Like most of you, I don't get that big twist either. I find it rather implausible that Jonah was able to figure everything out just because Fake Meyer didn't say the Kaddish prayer before killing Fake Wolf. I think the big reveal would have made more sense if it was spaced out over more sequences than just in a span of 5-10 minutes. It would have been more believable if there were some trail of breadcrumbs that Jonah was following, and already getting suspicious of Fake Meyer along the way, rather than just in one head-spinning reveal. 

Why did Fake Meyer get into The Hunt anyway? Because Ruth approached him? Was all of this just a matter of protecting Ruth, rather than an actual noble gesture of bringing the Nazis to justice?

On 2/23/2020 at 4:54 AM, Clare said:

or were all the other memories happen from the grandmothers perspective? 

No. The story where Meyer killed 11 people in one night in order to save Ruth was told by Fake Meyer to Jonah, although told it from a different perspective. But since he was actually there as The Wolf, he was able to tell what happened.

Y'all touched on the age issue already. But one thing that also didn't make sense to me (and I could be wrong because I missed something) was that in the last episode, when Ruth approached Meyer, it seemed like that was the first time they saw each other since Fake Meyer left her a note at camp 30+ years ago, although they kept tabs on each other and so that's why Ruth found him in NY. Is that correct? Because if it is, then what is Fake Meyer referring to when he said "you don't prefer this over our flat in Boston Street?" (or something like that). So they already saw each other after he left her in camp but before reconnecting in NY again??

[EarlGreyTea]

2 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Y'all touched on the age issue already. But one thing that also didn't make sense to me (and I could be wrong because I missed something) was that in the last episode, when Ruth approached Meyer, it seemed like that was the first time they saw each other since Fake Meyer left her a note at camp 30+ years ago, although they kept tabs on each other and so that's why Ruth found him in NY. Is that correct? Because if it is, then what is Fake Meyer referring to when he said "you don't prefer this over our flat in Boston Street?" (or something like that). So they already saw each other after he left her in camp but before reconnecting in NY again??

Maybe they had met before the camps? But that isn't right, is it? They met in the camps, right? Ugh, this is so needlessly complicated. Pick a backstory and stick with it. I'm more skeptical that they both lived in NYC for so long without running into each other. Sure, it's a large city, but they seemed to run in small circles. And so she was able to conceive even when she was starving and malnourished? I guess stranger things have happened.

[slowpoked]

7 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Maybe they had met before the camps? But that isn't right, is it? They met in the camps, right?

If I remember the first or second episode correctly, they met during the night when Ruth and her family were captured by the Nazis. Ruth was trying to protect her father, but she was forced away and her father got shot, and Meyer picked her up and moved her away from the Nazi soldier so she will be out of harm's way. 

So yes, I would think they had no past together prior to the war.

[EarlGreyTea]

On 3/6/2020 at 7:14 PM, slowpoked said:

Y'all touched on the age issue already. But one thing that also didn't make sense to me (and I could be wrong because I missed something) was that in the last episode, when Ruth approached Meyer, it seemed like that was the first time they saw each other since Fake Meyer left her a note at camp 30+ years ago, although they kept tabs on each other and so that's why Ruth found him in NY. Is that correct? Because if it is, then what is Fake Meyer referring to when he said "you don't prefer this over our flat in Boston Street?" (or something like that). So they already saw each other after he left her in camp but before reconnecting in NY again??

Maybe the Boston Street apartment was a trap set by Ruth to snuff out fake!Meyer. Or, perhaps they lived together shortly for a time before Meyer was murdered. But that isn't right either, is it? Where did the (extremely handsome) American Heidelbaum come in? In Ruth's fairy tale, he was the one who swept her away to the States. He was okay with her being pregnant with another man's child? She was okay marrying so soon after Meyer left her? When did they meet and what kind of man was he? The actor in the photograph looked so familiar, that I figured they were going to give him a scene or two. I was kind of disappointed.

...I have clearly given this more thought than the writers did. Or the posters upthread are right and Jonah isn't Ruth's biological grandson.

Edited March 8, 2020 by EarlGreyTea

[phoenics]

That completely blew my mind.  Didn't see it coming.  Don't know if it makes sense.

Um - is no one gonna talk about Joe and Hitler?

[formerlyfreedom]

6 hours ago, phoenics said:

Um - is no one gonna talk about Joe and Hitler?

I just finished the last two episodes this afternoon, and...WTF? Poor Joe! His poor bewildered look sitting at that table with all the young blond boys.

I almost want another season just to see how Joe can be saved. Put Harriet in charge of that  rescue, because she gets shit done!

[BellyLaughter]

What the heck was that conversation that Harriet had on the phone??? 
 

I’m confused lol

[slowpoked]

On 3/7/2020 at 8:15 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

Or, perhaps they lived together shortly for a time before Meyer was murdered. But that isn't right either, is it?

For sure. Because FakeMeyer killed RealMeyer while he and Ruth were still in the refugee camp. They made this clear when Jonah was able to put the escape date of FakeMeyer together to the date Ruth wrote in her letters when Meyer left her with a note. So there's no chance they lived together on their own before finally being out into the world after the war.

I think this is a classic case of the writers writing a twist for the sake of having a twist, rather than just focusing on a good story that ties together and it all makes sense. For one, I wouldn't have minded it if Al Pacino was indeed the Real Meyer and he's doing The Hunt as a vigilante search for justice, rather than a former Nazi doing it as penance.

Edited March 9, 2020 by slowpoked

[Natalie25]

What was Ruth's reason for visiting Meyer after 30 years? Meyer/The Wolf tells Jonah that she thought she saw The Wolf at the market...but this episode shows her seeing Frederich Mann - who I don't believe she would have known. Was her memory of that time just not great? If she thinks Mann is The Wolf and that the Wolf is Meyer...or did Mann just happen to be similar looking to The Wolf?

[festivus]

Like everyone else I want to know what the deal is with the age thing regarding Jonah. It was bugging me from the very first episode and stayed in my mind the whole time. It makes no sense. I'm hoping it's a case of season two will explain what's going on there but I also say, why was the supposedly genius Jonah not questioning this? Even if it's not bad writing and there's something more to it I don't think it was a good idea to leave that hanging.

Otherwise, I enjoyed the show. The Meyer reveal wasn't really shocking. He acted shady the whole time and it would be just like the Wolf who was so obsessed with Meyer and Ruth to become obsessed with the idea of being Jewish. Then that leading to hunting down Nazis. 

I would have liked more background on some of the other characters than we got, especially Joe. Why would he be the one they would take? I'm also super intrigued by Sister Harriet. What is her deal? There must be a season 2, I need to know!

Lots of great performances and good characters. I particularly enjoyed Lonny (Who knew Josh Radnor could be so funny? And no I don't count HIMYM), and Dylan Baker. Also, I want Carol Kane back. I love her.

 

[slowpoked]

On 3/9/2020 at 7:04 PM, Natalie25 said:

What was Ruth's reason for visiting Meyer after 30 years? Meyer/The Wolf tells Jonah that she thought she saw The Wolf at the market...but this episode shows her seeing Frederich Mann - who I don't believe she would have known. Was her memory of that time just not great? If she thinks Mann is The Wolf and that the Wolf is Meyer...or did Mann just happen to be similar looking to The Wolf?

I thought she saw another Nazi, probably someone she recognized from the camps - but not necessarily The Wolf. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Natalie25]

8 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I thought she saw another Nazi, probably someone she recognized from the camps - but not necessarily The Wolf. Maybe I'm wrong.

Good point - the actor they used in the flashback looked similar to Mann. But also I suppose Meyer could have been lying to Jonah about who she saw.

[Chellef356]

The conversation where tell talk about their flat in Boston street does not make any sense, because he (the fake) left her in the camps. This just would make any sense if before the war they had lived in a street called Boston street in europe. Because they knew each other before the camps, from the scene they were together when her father was killed. 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Al Pacino was driving me crazy this episode. Between the accent, the mumbling, the gravelly talking in the throat, and the whispering, I couldn't understand half the shit he was saying even with the volume cranked up.

Kudos to the makeup people for making everyone in the doctor's waiting room look plastic. Jonah was for more trusting than I would have been because I wouldn't have let some nazi doctor inject me with anything.

As soon as Travis told his parents to get a Jewish lawyer, I knew he was up to something.

The Meyer/Wolf twist was ridiculous and felt tacked on, like the writers got to the end of episode nine and thought oh crap, what can we do to spice things up for the season finale?

Poor Joe! Who is going to rescue him from Argentina if the rest of the team is going to Europe? I don't want him forced to join Team Hitler or tortured/experimented on.

[hurrrz]

This twist felt like "shucks we can't afford Pacino for another season, let's get him out with a bang" 

It fell so flat. It made no sense at all. It cheapened the whole season for me. The show has its moments in the writing. Is it contrived? Sure. But it's somewhat entertaining. 

In regards to the age issues. I feel like a lot of the Nazi people they killed off seem very young. 

I still can't figure out how they couldn't cast German actors to speak proper German and do the German-English accent. As a native German, this is super annoying, because it just takes me out of this show. 

[Ottis]

This show made the Nazis too smart, and the hunters too weird. At its core there was a truth, Nazis adopted into the US and given new lives, but most everything else was, I don’t know, catoony? Like Tarantino light. That includes the reveal, which I suspected since Joe said they didn’t tell the grandson something about Meyer (I suppose they meant Meyer’s relationship with Ruth, or possibly the grandson relationship), which made me suspicious and start guessing at the meaning. His killing of the Barringer woman without confirmation was what made me think he wasn’t who he said he was, and the rest was easy. That said, I didn’t buy that a former Nazi could so identify with his victims that he became one of them. Just like Ruth being a Nazi spy makes no sense because she is helping the Hunters kill dozens of Nazis while she … what? I agree she needs them in Europe for some other reason. There were some well written moments, but the cartoonishness made them less meaningful.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ottis

[dubbel zout]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:31 PM, Lillith said:

So is the Sister a double agent?

I don't think she's a double agent. I think she has a separate agenda from the Hunters and being a part of that dovetails with whatever that agenda is.

On 2/24/2020 at 10:07 AM, teddysmom said:

How did Lonny survive the stabbing, they didn't even explain him getting out of the subway. 

I know. Travis didn't just scratch him; the knife was plunged in and twisted a bit.