S01.E01: Remembrance

[jonas whasington]

this show is great 😄

[DavidJSnyder]

47 minutes ago, Vandy10 said:

In regards to the replicator discussion, didn't Chief O'Brian say something in DS9 about how his mother always cooked food, never replicated? I think it was a scene where someone else (Keiko? Bashir?) was horrified that his mom actually touched and handled meat. So that, plus the fact that restaurants still exists, seems to show that plenty of people still want non-replicated stuff.

That's a TNG scene with Keiko and O'Brien from The Wounded, shortly after they got married. I happened to watch it last night.

[Melgaypet]

1 hour ago, Vandy10 said:

So that, plus the fact that restaurants still exists, seems to show that plenty of people still want non-replicated stuff.

I agree. I can recall Joseph Sisko referring disparagingly to "replicated slop," and his restaurant always seemed busy and popular when we saw it.

[scottiB]

Apologies for stating the obvious, but Patrick Stewart acts the shit out of Jean-Luc Picard. His acting during the interview was profound. Felt like I was watching TNG.

CBS All Access; you've forced my to accept your $10/month fee.

[Florinaldo]

Perhaps replicators cannot duplicate the full flavour profile of wine, only its main components. Much like present-day artificial vanilla extract uses only a a few of the most prominent vanilla flavour components, mainly vanillin, and not the dozens of others that make up its complex and varied taste, sometimes to excess (I find that Tahitian vanilla can be so floral it overpowers a delicate dish).

True wine lovers would of course choose the complete gustatory experience, to fully appreciate the terroir and the various tasting notes. It may be the same for food in general. Replicators can get the basic main flavours, but not all of the complexity that makes some food interesting or exceptional; so even an "ordinary" home-cooked dish would be better than any replicated version, especially with regards to the contribution of the more subtle or composite spices, herbs and seasonings. Hence the continued existence of restaurants and home cooking in that future society.

[paigow]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:35 AM, marinw said:

Usually the phrase "I eat a lot of crap" isn't taken this literally.

Now we know where the Reman boarding party from Nemesis was "buried".....

Edited January 28, 2020 by paigow

[markx]

How do replicators compare to transporters - clearly no one anymore has any trouble accepting results of the latter as real. Imagine if Picard takes one of his homegrown wines to a party, that he travels to via transporter - would that mean his wine is now inferior to the original? (Even though no one would question that Picard is no longer the real Picard?)

Possibly replicators are simpler versions though. https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator says "Despite replicated food and drinks being practically identical to their real counterparts, some people claim to be able to tell the difference between real and replicated foodstuffs and maintain supplies of their favorite food and beverages from more traditional sources. This may be due to the fact that molecular level resolution is used with replication, rather than quantum level resolution used with life forms - which causes single bit errors to often appear in replicated items."

And even if such claims seem very unlikely, it could be analogous to audiophiles who keep their music in wav format...

Or as jcin617 says, it may be that replicators would only give you exactly the same thing every time.

[Vandy10]

Foodies gonna foodie, even 400 years from now.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved TNG so I was excited to have Jean-Luc back on my screen.

Bonus: Isa Briones! She is the daughter of Jon Jon Briones who starred in Miss Saigon, and Isa was in the national tour of Hamilton before being cast on ST: Picard.

On 1/23/2020 at 3:50 PM, Kromm said:

I do get the impression that she didn't know she had a twin (she didn't mention one, right? Or am I misremembering?) and the fact that the OTHER sister knows is significant.  It's supposed to make us question if maybe the other sister is ACTUALLY in the know about what she is. 

I was thinking about Rachel on Orphan Black, who was the one clone raised to know she was a clone. Like Rachel, Soji seems colder and more calculating than her sister Dahj so it will be interesting to see how she ultimately turns out.

 

[Sandman]

It took me far too long to realize that Picard's staff at the house were Romulans and not Vulcans (should have paid more attention to their names, I suppose) -- and then I thought of how pissed Admiral Satie would be, if she's still around, at the whole rescue effort, and at Picard's personal and public roles in it.

(Heh. Two British actors as Starfleet admirals with French names...) 

[paigow]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was thinking about Rachel on Orphan Black,

There are multiple SETS of twins, like sleeper cells that have no idea other sets exist...So the writers can keep killing off and introducing new daughter variants during the season....Hey...Deja Vu....

[Llywela]

On 1/23/2020 at 11:50 PM, Kromm said:

I do get the impression that she didn't know she had a twin (she didn't mention one, right? Or am I misremembering?) and the fact that the OTHER sister knows is significant. 

I thought that too, but then I saw a screencap of the call Dahj makes to her 'mother' (who I agree was probably a simulation rather than an actual person) and she has the name Soji in her contacts list. So who knows? Well, I guess we might find out as the season goes on...

[paigow]

Flesh and blood androids, fully functioning emotion chips, sudden rebellion against their creators....Maddox did not build them...Robert Ford did,....

[AnimeMania]

I am surprised nobody in the thread has mentioned the word "Treadstone" in Space-ace-ace-ace.

[Kromm]

On 1/24/2020 at 4:05 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 

The Romulans are building a Borg cube?!!

 

No. They're scrounging technology off of one.

[shrewd.buddha]

The premiere episode is free to view on YouTube for a limited time. So we checked it out to decide whether to binge the series after it has completed. (Cannot justify paying a monthly subscription for only one show -- nice try CBS and Disney.)

I was wary of how it would be approached, but was pleasantly surprised. Above all else, it is entertaining without the distracting annoyances of retconning the past or babbling nonsensical science-sounding words. 
The real advantage of this show is that the Star Trek universe is moving forward, finally. We can be free of prequel issues and old stories being rehashed in alternate timelines. 

Fingers crossed that the series can maintain the quality that was present in the premiere. This is a show that could easily fall deep into fan service and nostalgia porn. 

A thing that did seem odd was why would Picard have any issue finding out about Dahj (the AI young woman).  She had an apartment of her own and a scholarship to a prestigious school - - she should be well documented. At that point in the future, I would imagine that you couldn't start your flying car or enter your apartment without some type of automated DNA verification.  
 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[shrewd.buddha]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:01 AM, Lebanna said:

They don’t use  money, or have any shortages, so everything is just produced to be the best it can be.

Has it ever been explained how the no-currency lifestyle works in the 24th century? How does one get entitled to have a large swanky apartment or French villa? Supply and demand would make it impossible for everyone to have ocean-view houses. What circumstances would cause a person to only be entitled to the New York style one room apartment with a bathroom-is-also-the-kitchen setup? 
I also wonder what compensation a person would get for taking a position such as caretakers for Picard's vineyard. Is there some type of super advanced bartering system or indentured servitude? 

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Has it ever been explained how the no-currency lifestyle works in the 24th century? How does one get entitled to have a large swanky apartment or French villa? Supply and demand would make it impossible for everyone to have ocean-view houses. What circumstances would cause a person to only be entitled to the New York style one room apartment with a bathroom-is-also-the-kitchen setup? 
I also wonder what compensation a person would get for taking a position such as caretakers for Picard's vineyard. Is there some type of super advanced bartering system or indentured servitude? 

I have often wondered much the same thing myself! I mean, trade and commerce clearly still exist, the various Trek franchises are littered with them, but how that squares with the concept of the no-currency, post-scarcity economy on Earth has never been explained, possibly because it makes very little sense.

[marinw]

45 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I have often wondered much the same thing myself! I mean, trade and commerce clearly still exist, the various Trek franchises are littered with them, but how that squares with the concept of the no-currency, post-scarcity economy on Earth has never been explained, possibly because it makes very little sense.

https://www.amazon.ca/Trekonomics-Economics-Star-Manu-Saadia/dp/1941758754

"Trekanomics" explores this in some detail. Because humans are human, people will still compete, but for status rather than material things. Starfleet prides itself on being a meritoicracy, but it cannot be immune to politics and corruption.

Speaking of which, is Earth still a democracy? There is some sort of Global Government, but as far as I know the type of government has never been explained. If anybody knows better than me please about this let us know.

Edited February 2, 2020 by marinw

[Llywela]

I shouldn't have to buy a book to not be confused with how the whole no currency, post scarcity deal works out in practice when some people have obviously cushy lifestyles while others work shifts at a shipyard and grumble about their rations. I mean, it isn't a big deal, doesn't impede my enjoyment of the show, but it is something I've always wondered about. I just finished up a marathon TNG re-watch and I wondered about it a bunch of times through that. Because there are very obviously goods and services being exchanged still, and there clearly is a currency (gold-pressed latinum, anyone?), but the show just can't bring itself to admit the existence of a good old-fashioned economy on future utopia Earth!

Edited February 2, 2020 by Llywela

[853fisher]

I resisted this series despite the great buzz in part because I don't care to support the fracturing streaming market, but a group of friends gets together on Sundays and we voted it in as our new selection.  I'm glad we did, because I found it a thoroughly entertaining.  The dialogue was sharp and I was interested in the physical characterization of Picard.  Stewart is as vital as ever, but I believed Picard utterly.  I am looking forward to the second episode tonight.

 

I've always liked the values I associate with Trek and find the fandom interesting, but I haven't had the time to properly dive in.  I've watched about half of TOS and picked up chunks of knowledge from later series, either by osmosis through friends or references in other media. I know who Data was and that there was a movie called "Nemesis," but couldn't have told you what happened to him then.  I know generally who the Borg are, but couldn't have told you that the object we were shown was a Borg cube.  And so on.  I say all this to make the point that I found the show very accessible and interesting.  I didn't feel I needed to know what a Borg cube was to be interested in the object we were shown and how it came to be there, for instance.  I appreciate being able to come here and get more context, which has certainly enriched my appreciation of what I watched, but I hope nobody who wants to give it a whirl will worry about not knowing enough backstory.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

 

On 1/24/2020 at 8:43 PM, paigow said:

On 1/23/2020 at 9:39 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

 

"Tea. Earl Grey. Decaf."

Finally, a genius made Hot the default for the replicator Tea subroutine

ALong those lines, I feel like one should say "decaf" before ordering the type of tea or the replicator might already have made non-decaf (unless there is no default and it knows to wait for the caffeine/no caffeine choice.)

On 1/24/2020 at 10:41 AM, Ottis said:

Confronted with a kill squad of (Romulans, I guess?) who knocked off at least two people, instead of pursuing who they were and why, Picard ... rushes to the archives .... to see a painting that matches one he already has. 

Well, he hadn't actually been confronted by them, and he even told Dahj that he believed that she believed that all that had happened to her, so he wasn't living in abject terror as she was, but most of all, he was looking for clues, and he found one: the title of the painting, which led him to his conclusion as to her identity.

Edited February 6, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[LisaM]

My last Star Trek experience was Voyager so I'm familiar in general with Data and Picard and the Borg. I'm clueless about most of the details however. I found this episode to be very interesting and I'm definitely looking forward to more. Especially looking forward to Seven of Nine showing up. 

[blueray]

Finally gave in and got CBS all access. I've never watched Discovery and I'm not a fan of the JJ Adam's movies.  So going into this I really only know from the original shows (ToS, TNG, DS9, ect). Anyhow, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

First off, I had no idea his assistant guy was suppose to be Romulan, as he doesn't look like it. Maybe he is half? But the whole group that was attacking them was Romulan too? Because last I checked their blood isn't acid. So that makes no sense. Unless they aren't Romulans but something else?

I was shocked when the killed Dajh and disappointed.  Because she was just starting to have relationship with the characters and then they just yanked it away. And wow how lucky she has a twin sister which makes no sense.  Data was created signally as was Lore and Lal.  So all Androids at this point where not twins. So this is not consistent with established cannon and is a stupid plot. And the whole "android" attack us thing they completely stole from Battle Star Galatica. This isn't Star Trek at least not the way they seem to be telling it.  I do hope they at least skip the Picard now having to explain everything to the twin as that is annoying. When they could have simply kept the original character.

That being said there are somethings I liked such as Number 1 and Patrick Stewart's performance.  I of course enjoyed seeing Data again even if it was a dream. Anyhow, I do plan on keep watching and hopefully it gets better.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

Finally gave in and got CBS all access. I've never watched Discovery and I'm not a fan of the JJ Adam's movies.  So going into this I really only know from the original shows (ToS, TNG, DS9, ect). Anyhow, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

First off, I had no idea his assistant guy was suppose to be Romulan, as he doesn't look like it. Maybe he is half? But the whole group that was attacking them was Romulan too? Because last I checked their blood isn't acid. So that makes no sense. Unless they aren't Romulans but something else?

I was shocked when the killed Dajh and disappointed.  Because she was just starting to have relationship with the characters and then they just yanked it away. And wow how lucky she has a twin sister which makes no sense.  Data was created signally as was Lore and Lal.  So all Androids at this point where not twins. So this is not consistent with established cannon and is a stupid plot. And the whole "android" attack us thing they completely stole from Battle Star Galatica. This isn't Star Trek at least not the way they seem to be telling it.  I do hope they at least skip the Picard now having to explain everything to the twin as that is annoying. When they could have simply kept the original character.

I think you have misunderstood a few things, most of which would probably have been cleared up if you had read through the discussion above. 🙂

1. Previous iterations of Star Trek have established very different appearances for Romulans - some smooth-headed and some with forehead ridges. The Vulcan-like pointed ears are what they all have in common. Star Trek: Picard has taken those two established 'types' and used them to create racial diversity among its Romulan characters, so that both smooth-headed and ridged-forehead Romulans appear in the show. They can all be recognised as Romulan by their pointed ears and slanted eyebrows.

2. There is more than one faction of Romulans. They are a vast civilisation, with many divisions - especially now that they have been scattered by the destruction of their homeworld and many established colonies. Those factions don't all agree with one another, don't all operate to the same agenda, and sometimes don't even know the others exist. The show has taken an alien race that was fairly one-dimensional in previous branches of the franchise and has added great depth and diversity to them, exploring aspects of their culture never seen before - just as TNG did for the Klingons.

3. The Romulans do not have acid blood. If you look closely, you will see that the Tal Shiar guy bites down on something in his mouth, a bit like enemy agents in James Bond who conceal cyanide capsules in their teeth in case of capture - in this case, the capsule contained acid, which burns the man's own mouth as well as killing Dahj when he spits it at her (it also dissolves the gun, which is what causes the explosion).

4. Data was created as an individual by Noonian Soong, yes, that is established. However, what it also well established by TNG is that no one has ever been able to duplicate Soong's work. This episode tells us that Maddox and Jurati and their team were working on an entirely different process for achieving the same result, and their alternate process uses fractal cloning, which results in two identical specimens.

5. Many creative works draw on similar sources of inspiration and explore similar ideas - there are very few truly original ideas (if you think Work A is copying Work B, chances are, Work B wasn't original to begin with and there is someone else out there complaining about Work B ripping off Work C, and so on). What matters is the individual twist each one brings to the concept.

Star Trek: Picard is 100% Star Trek. It is a different Star Trek than TNG was, just as TNG was a different Star Trek than TOS was, and just as DS9 was different again, and so on, and that is okay. It is okay for each new iteration to be different. They all represent different aspects of the Star Trek universe. They are all Star Trek.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Llywela

[blueray]

Quote

2. There is more than one faction of Romulans. They are a vast civilisation, with many divisions - especially now that they have been scattered by the destruction of their homeworld and many established colonies. Those factions don't all agree with one another, don't all operate to the same agenda, and sometimes don't even know the others exist. The show has taken an alien race that was fairly one-dimensional in previous branches of the franchise and has added great depth and diversity to them, exploring aspects of their culture never seen before - just as TNG did for the Klingons.

I'd say that they already were kind of diverse at least comparing TNG and DS9's stories involving them at least individual characters are. But yeah, that is interesting to explore more of. I think some of the problem is I haven't seen any of Discovery and I only saw the JJ Adam's movies once in theaters (and I never saw Beyond). So I actually kind of forgot that Romulas was destroyed until watching this.

Quote

3. The Romulans do not have acid blood. If you look closely, you will see that the Tal Shiar guy bites down on something in his mouth, a bit like enemy agents in James Bond who conceal cyanide capsules in their teeth in case of capture - in this case, the capsule contained acid, which burns the man's own mouth as well as killing Dahj when he spits it at her (it also dissolves the gun, which is what causes the explosion).

Oh, I missed that lol. That makes more sense. I honestly sort of just skimmed the thread as I didn't want to be spoiled not that people would necessary do that.

Anyhow, I do plan on keep watching, I just not so sure about this. But it was only one episode.

[Llywela]

11 hours ago, blueray said:

 I think some of the problem is I haven't seen any of Discovery and I only saw the JJ Adam's movies once in theaters (and I never saw Beyond). So I actually kind of forgot that Romulas was destroyed until watching this.

You don't need to watch Discovery to understand Picard. You don't need to have seen the Abrams films, either. The show itself tells you what you need to know about the backstory, destruction of Romulus, etc. It does expect viewers to pay pretty close attention, though - the showrunner is primarily a novelist rather than a screenwriter so a lot of the detailing is quite intricate and it is easy to miss stuff.

Since the episodes originally aired weekly, rather than dropping all at once, the episode threads are pretty self-contained - discussion of later episodes couldn't creep in because those episodes hadn't aired yet. So there shouldn't be any spoilers in the episode threads.

[Affogato]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:49 AM, marinw said:

I am thinking about the Doctor from Voyager. Towards the end of that series, it was suggested that the Holograms of the Federation were second-class people. (I still don't get how a Hologram can achieve self-awareness, but let's not go down that rabit hole.)

Like data, through experience. I think  it is one of the consistent star trek themes. What makes you human isn’t your shape or your parents (etc) it is the sum of your experiences and relationships. 

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Like data, through experience. I think  it is one of the consistent star trek themes. What makes you human isn’t your shape or your parents (etc) it is the sum of your experiences and relationships. 

This. It is a concept that sci fi has explored again and again, one of those deep philosophical conundrums about the nature and meaning of life and sentience. If man creates a machine that has the capacity to learn, and that machine eventually learns so much and grows so far beyond its original programming that it becomes self-aware...then what does that mean? Should it be recognised as a new life form?

Star Trek has explored the concept repeatedly, with androids and with holograms - although it has also ducked out of committing to the deeper meaning of the Doctor's story in Voyager. I mean, if all holograms have the capacity to achieve sentience purely as a result of being switched on continuously (or as a result of being slightly misprogrammed, as happened with Moriarty on TNG), then surely that raises ethical questions over the use of holograms in general? Picard sidestepped the question by ignoring it completely, utilising holograms as intelligent AIs and nothing more, yet we know from past experience that they are capable of becoming more than that, in the right circumstances. So, is it right to treat them as mere tools if they are self-aware and capable of full sentience? Is it right to hold them back from developing sentience just because it would be inconvenient? There are lots of potentially interesting questions there, but Picard hasn't addressed them (yet).

[Affogato]

On 1/24/2020 at 8:09 AM, PinkChicken said:

 

I always thought Data represents more of the top down AI approach off the bat, (though he definitely developed quite a bit 'bottom up' after that), while the Doctor (and other holograms that have appeared here and there as side characters) represent the bottom up approach. Therefore very few other holograms have had opportunity to accumulate the experiences to have evolved beyond a line for the Federation to recognize their individualism anyway. I don't think they ever defined that line either. It wouldn't surprise me if the society we see here had certain activity or processing limits on the holograms to prevent that happening in the first place  

In the voyager episode where the Doctor writes a holonovel you see the other holograms like him, the garbage cleaners ( i forget exactly what they were doing). They were reading the original holonovel and seemed pretty self aware. And like they had down time after work.