S05.E07: From Monogamy to Polygamy

[SometimesBites]

The thing that really surprised me is that, in the book, they all talk about how warm and inviting the lifestyle is. But when they had the episode with all their mothers, they talked about how hard their lives have been. Was this bunch just completely clueless when they were kids that they never picked up on the tensions and tears?

That dichotomy has always frustrated me so much. I believe wholeheartedly that the phenomenon of the plural wife telling her tale of woe is a treasured convention of polygamy. They ALL do it, and don't seem to ever consider how weirdly schizoid it appears to the rest of the world, how blatantly it fits the old adage of "talking from both sides of your mouth." In the course of everyday life, these women must pretend to embrace plural marriage, are expected to "keep sweet" and to suffer their heartache without complaint. But if they are given the opportunity to openly discuss their struggles? Oh baby! They spill their guts, they weep, they give the gory details of their pain. These women are all hurting and no matter how much lip service they give to polygamy, they LOVE their opportunity to talk about how much pain they are in. It sometimes seems like they're even in competition to be the wife who has suffered most; their suffering is a badge of honor, and is part of why Meri and Robyn are forever weeping, in my opinion.

 

No matter how much they try to imply that we boring monogamists are missing out on the blessing of sister wives, no matter how much they claim they have the better deal because they don't "have to" have their husband around every night, the truth ALWAYS COME OUT, as it did with Meri, once again, last Sunday: this lifestyle makes them desperately unhappy. Sister Wives has, perhaps, convinced some people that not every plyg family is a Warren Jeffs nightmare, but it has not done much to promote polygamy as a just-like-everyone-else choice. Even if Kody wasn't a douchebag--and that's a big "if"--this show would leave most of us saying thanks, but NO THANKS.

[ghoulina]

If I remember right from reading the Browns' book, only Christine was born into this lifestyle. Kody was grown and away serving on his LDS mission when his parents converted. Meri's parents were also mainstream LDS. They took a second wife when Meri was 5, but she only stayed 2 years. They didn't go plural again until Meri was 10. Janelle's family was and is mainstream LDS. She got involved with Meri's brother. Their marriage only lasted 6 months. Then came Kody.

 

What about Robyn? Wasn't she raised in it like Christine? I thought those two were related somehow?

[IvySpice]

 

You're probably right that a lot of people don't know all that much about their church's history. Janelle said (in the book) that when she met Meri's family, she was surprised they were polygamists. She thought polygamy was a myth.

Not surprising for someone raised LDS. There is a lot of deliberate whitewashing of history, though that is now changing a little.

[technorebel]

What about Robyn? Wasn't she raised in it like Christine? I thought those two were related somehow?

Robyn says in the book that she was raised in a polygamist family, but doesn't say how far back that went in her family. She was married for 7 1/2 years to a man who came from polygamy, although she and he never took another wife. She says she was "badly mistreated and misled by him."

I don't know if any of the Browns are related or not. Someone who knows their family genealogy may know.

All of the wives describe Kody as dynamic, the life of the party. I don't mind saying that he was pretty good-looking in his younger days.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I thought that the LDS church has pretty robust education programs.  Wouldn't Kody and Jenelle as LDS members have been required to meet a certain proficiency?

[camom]

I don't know a lot about the Brown family genealogy, except that Janelle used to be married to Meri's brother and Janelle's mom was married to Kody's dad.  I do remember reading that Robyn and Christine are related--same grandparent perhaps?  As has been noted before, their family tree is more like a family wreath.

 

Did some googling and came up with this:

 

"There is one more family connection among the wives. Robyn was first married to David Jessop, who is first cousins with Christine. Although David and Christine are related, Robyn did not know Christine, as Robyn and David lived in Montana during their marriage. (David has since left the church.)"

 

So Robyn's first three kids and Christine's kids are also second cousins.

Edited July 18, 2014 by camom

[technorebel]

I thought that the LDS church has pretty robust education programs. Wouldn't Kody and Jenelle as LDS members have been required to meet a certain proficiency?

Robust education in regard to their religion? My impression is that their church only tells them the history that will be "faith-promoting" and discourages members from poking around on the internet. The ones I've met seem to be shocked when certain historical facts are discussed as if they've never heard them before.

[wrestlesflamingos]

 

Robust education in regard to their religion?

 

Yes!  It seems like a few of them should be pretty versed in the book of mormon and the church rules. Even without the altering of historical events, they should be able to talk about what their faith means, why polygamy is part of that faith, and how they are guided to live in plural marriage.  I feel like we've only gotten "because god" from all of the Browns.

[technorebel]

Yes! It seems like a few of them should be pretty versed in the book of mormon and the church rules. Even without the altering of historical events, they should be able to talk about what their faith means, why polygamy is part of that faith, and how they are guided to live in plural marriage. I feel like we've only gotten "because god" from all of the Browns.

It probably wouldn't go over too well if they admit they're living polygamy because they want to become gods with their own planet to rule over in the afterlife. But this is precisely why they torture themselves with this lifestyle. So they dance around the issue and say vague things like "we have a calling to live this way". Because the truth is just so bizarre.

[Higgins]

I found this Christian Polygamy defense page and it's quite eye opening.  I've been a Bible-believing Christian- who actually reads the Bible- for almost 20 years and this has me thinking.  Granted, I didn't look up every Scripture that he mentioned and think that some are a big stretch to support polygamy but some are very convincing. 

 

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/polygamy.html

Why not?

First... how would Christine know if monogamy is boring?  She wasn't raised in it, never lived it. 

Second... how dare this entire crew tell me I MUST accept them. and be friends with them, and not judge them... while she and Robyn are judging me all over the place for monogamy and I don't even have a reality show.  She won't even tolerate my lifestyle, let alone accept it.  Calling it boring, describing Christians as scary and sharks, barely tolerating her own Mom and Aunt who left  polygamy. Does she think their family has a monopoly on games like Red Rover and tag?.. go to any elementary playground during recess. 

Third, whoever did the number on the little girl was a horrible excuse for a human being.  All 9 children were born of the first wife, who is legally married to the husband... exactly who is the little girl denying relationship too?

 

Hubby wasn't religiously motivated for this.  He just wanted this woman on the side.  And I think first wife finally went along with it because she had 9 kids in 10 years (they've been married 13, youngest child is 3), and wanted a break.  She figured that if she shared wife duties, she might avoid pregnancy more often. New wife is going to wake up one day and discover she's been scammed into babysitter duties.  Just because the bible doesn't specifically state that polygamy was out of style doesn't mean  it was still being practiced by the time of the new testament.... which is what Christians specifically follow.  As others have said, we don't stone people, allow parents to take their children out in the desert and attempt to kill them,  condone people invading other countries because they want their land, send people into slavery in Egypt, and so forth. 

 

Edited to add:  This guy is even more controlling than Joe Darger... all eating at the same time, calling from work to eat at the same time, lining up the kids by height, all with stupid smug reasons for it.

Do Christians deny the Old Testament as the word of God?

[technorebel]

Why not?

Do Christians deny the Old Testament as the word of God?

No, but we believe that a new covenant was established with the coming of Jesus Christ.

[purpleflowers]

 

So Robyn's first three kids and Christine's kids are also second cousins.

Also, according to one source online, two of Meri's "moms" or father's wives are also cousins with David Jessop. 

[technorebel]

I don't know a lot about the Brown family genealogy, except that Janelle used to be married to Meri's brother and Janelle's mom was married to Kody's dad.  I do remember reading that Robyn and Christine are related--same grandparent perhaps?  As has been noted before, their family tree is more like a family wreath.

 

Did some googling and came up with this:

 

"There is one more family connection among the wives. Robyn was first married to David Jessop, who is first cousins with Christine. Although David and Christine are related, Robyn did not know Christine, as Robyn and David lived in Montana during their marriage. (David has since left the church.)"

 

So Robyn's first three kids and Christine's kids are also second cousins.

So, Robyn might have said, "Kids, meet your new stepsister cousins".  Their family trees must be a mess.

[AZChristian]

Suddenly, that old classic C/W song, "I'm My Own Grandpa" pops into my head.

[Kohola3]

I think that when the life expectancy was very low, polygamy probably was a way to produce the number of kids needed to keep help feed the family.  A large majority of people raised their own food and it was all hands on deck to keep the family eating.  If one wife was barren, it could mean the end of the group and since divorce wasn't common, taking another wife may have made sense.

 

However, popping out kids to collect extra welfare checks and be used as shills in their pyramid scheme business is clearly not necessary for the health and well being of the Brown Dynasty.  And that whole "Planet of the Afterlife" is an eye-roller no matter how you try to spin it.  It sounds like a story some toddler made up.

[technorebel]

Suddenly, that old classic C/W song, "I'm My Own Grandpa" pops into my head.

 

That makes me wonder if there were ever polygamy-specific songs written; or, perhaps, polygamy-specific greeting cards.  Hallmark should get on that.  "To my dear sweet second wife on Valentine's Day...roses are red, violets are blue, I still love Meri, but now I love you, too."

[LuckyBitch]

If I remember right from reading the Browns' book, only Christine was born into this lifestyle. Kody was grown and away serving on his LDS mission when his parents converted. Meri's parents were also mainstream LDS. They took a second wife when Meri was 5, but she only stayed 2 years. They didn't go plural again until Meri was 10. Janelle's family was and is mainstream LDS. She got involved with Meri's brother. Their marriage only lasted 6 months. Then came Kody.

 

Robyn says in the book that she was raised in a polygamist family, but doesn't say how far back that went in her family. She was married for 7 1/2 years to a man who came from polygamy, although she and he never took another wife. She says she was "badly mistreated and misled by him."

I don't know if any of the Browns are related or not. Someone who knows their family genealogy may know.

All of the wives describe Kody as dynamic, the life of the party. I don't mind saying that he was pretty good-looking in his younger days.

 

I don't know a lot about the Brown family genealogy, except that Janelle used to be married to Meri's brother and Janelle's mom was married to Kody's dad.  I do remember reading that Robyn and Christine are related--same grandparent perhaps?  As has been noted before, their family tree is more like a family wreath.

 

Did some googling and came up with this:

 

"There is one more family connection among the wives. Robyn was first married to David Jessop, who is first cousins with Christine. Although David and Christine are related, Robyn did not know Christine, as Robyn and David lived in Montana during their marriage. (David has since left the church.)"

 

So Robyn's first three kids and Christine's kids are also second cousins.

 

Also, according to one source online, two of Meri's "moms" or father's wives are also cousins with David Jessop. 

 

So, Robyn might have said, "Kids, meet your new stepsister cousins".  Their family trees must be a mess.

 

Thanks everyone for the information. I've been attempting to figure it all out, since I only starting watching the show a couple of years ago, which Wikipedia tells me was about half way through season three.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around some of the bizarre connections. Just imagine divorcing your husband and then going on to marry his sister's husband and living with them. C-r-a-z-y.

 

Also, when did Janelle's mom marry Kody's dad? I thought Janelle wasn't raised in polygamy.

 

Oy, I'm so confused. Thank God I live a simple and uncomplicated life (and no, it's NOT boring, Christine!)

[technorebel]

Thanks everyone for the information. I've been attempting to figure it all out, since I only starting watching the show a couple of years ago, which Wikipedia tells me was about half way through season three.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around some of the bizarre connections. Just imagine divorcing your husband and then going on to marry his sister's husband and living with them. C-r-a-z-y.

 

Also, when did Janelle's mom marry Kody's dad? I thought Janelle wasn't raised in polygamy.

 

Oy, I'm so confused. Thank God I live a simple and uncomplicated life (and no, it's NOT boring, Christine!)

Janelle and Kody were engaged.  They took Janelle's mom up to meet Kody's family because Janelle's LDS family were concerned about her marrying into polygamy.  While there, Janelle's mom hit it off with Kody's dad.  They were married three months after Kody and Janelle's wedding.  It's unclear to me if Janelle's mom was divorced from her father or a widow.

 

So I guess that makes Janelle Kody's sister-in--law/stepsister/wife.  Whew!

Edited July 19, 2014 by technorebel

[suomi]

So, Robyn might have said, "Kids, meet your new stepsister cousins".  Their family trees must be a mess.

 

Posters on the TWP site called it a wreath instead of a tree.

[purpleflowers]

It's unclear to me if Janelle's mom was divorced from her father or a widow.

 

So I guess that makes Janelle Kody's sister-in--law/stepsister/wife.  Whew!

Based on what I've read in "Becoming Sisterwives", Janelle's father passed away in her childhood and she had a stepfather at one point after that. I assume Janelle's mom is divorced from him. 

[LuckyBitch]

Janelle and Kody were engaged.  They took Janelle's mom up to meet Kody's family because Janelle's LDS family were concerned about her marrying into polygamy.  While there, Janelle's mom hit it off with Kody's dad.  They were married three months after Kody and Janelle's wedding.  It's unclear to me if Janelle's mom was divorced from her father or a widow.

 

So I guess that makes Janelle Kody's sister-in--law/stepsister/wife.  Whew!

 

Thanks, (I think, LOL). So, let me get this straight. Janelle wasn't raised in polygamy and her mom was never a polygamist. She's engaged to Kody and her mom meets the family, likes the dad and decides to become a polygamist (rather late in life, too)? These people are all crazier than I thought!

 

Posters on the TWP site called it a wreath instead of a tree.

 

Well, I guess I should l go with that then, because I was going with the much less diplomatic "clusterf-ck".

Edited July 19, 2014 by LuckyBitch

[Rhondinella]

I must say,  somewhat off topic, that I think it's awesome when the mod is actively participating in the conversation!!!  Thank you!

 

 

This is one off-topic comment that I'll let stand :-)  Thanks.  I enjoy you guys too!  I wish I could participate more, but my boss keeps insisting that I do the work I'm actually paid for.  The nerve.

[MarkySnark]

Rhondinella, you are clearly NOT a Brown, as you have told us that you both work and have a boss. Unlike these morons, whose only boss seems to be the almighty dollar and their religion is the constant search for the next way to con people out of it.

[4leafclover]

I remembered the whole Janelle-Kody-Meri's brother-Kody's father/Janelle's mother-situation but I just realized I don't know if Janelle's mom is Kody's mom's only sisterwife?  I vaguely remember when the Brown's went back to visit Kody's mom after his brother and father died--weren't there only the two surviving wives?  Which begs the question, when Kody was away on his mission and his parents began to embrace polygamy, why weren't there more sisterwives for Kody's mom?  Oh gee, I'm giving this waaaaay too much thought!

[technorebel]

I remembered the whole Janelle-Kody-Meri's brother-Kody's father/Janelle's mother-situation but I just realized I don't know if Janelle's mom is Kody's mom's only sisterwife?  I vaguely remember when the Brown's went back to visit Kody's mom after his brother and father died--weren't there only the two surviving wives?  Which begs the question, when Kody was away on his mission and his parents began to embrace polygamy, why weren't there more sisterwives for Kody's mom?  Oh gee, I'm giving this waaaaay too much thought!

There were three wives listed in Kody's dad's obituary. I don't think I've heard them mention Bobbie. Of course, the obit could be wrong.

[4leafclover]

@technorebel--thanks!  I can't blame "Bobbie" for not wanting to show her face on that show!  lol

[Katjoy26]

There were three wives listed in Kody's dad's obituary. I don't think I've heard them mention Bobbie. Of course, the obit could be wrong.

She doesn't want to be on the show. That's perfectly understandable. But I did think it was odd that they didn't even acknowledge her existence. They could acknowledge that he had 3 wives without actually showing her or even mentioning her by name. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by Katjoy26

[Xena]

Soooo.... it took me six days to get through this episode- these people are seriously boring. 

 

The one thing that keeps coming back to me (unwanted!) is the way that Kody said whatever he said 'I can pray in Hebrew' (that may not be exactly what he said - I refuse to go back and rewatch LOL).  It was the way he said it that I took his real meaning to be 'I can say it in Hebrew because I'm special.  I'm unique.  I'm better than you because I know how to do something that you can't do.  I wish I could show you ALL the ways in which I'm special, but since we don't have time, I'll just do this one thing - I'll give the blessing in Hebrew.  I hope you understand how honored you are to be in the presence of someone so interesting'.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Xena

[Kohola3]

I wish I could show you ALL the ways in which I'm special, but since we don't have time, I'll just do this one thing - I'll give the blessing in Hebrew.

 

Yep and then he confirms what we all know (what a total doofus he is) by making a fool of himself and totally screwing it up.  I don't suppose there is a hope in hell that any of them will ever look in the mirror and face the realization that they their place on earth is to be a laughingstock for everyone on this forum.

[Rhondinella]

Well, I certainly am not a Hebrew expert, and not an expert on Jewish prayers either, even thought I'm somewhat familiar with the oldest ones that come straight from the Jewish Scriptures.  So, I can't speak to whether he left some part out or said it wrong, but I can tell you that his Hebrew pronunciation was terrible.

[suomi]

Body language I noticed tonight re-watching the end of this ep while waiting for the next one: they were in the restaurant and the other polygs were telling the Browns how their arrangement began, the visions inspired by God, yadda yadda.

 

Robyn: (sitting next to the motor-mouth Richards first wife and therefore getting a lot of camera time) arranging how her hair was falling over one shoulder, and then the other; fussing with her blouse; adjusting her necklaces, and then re-aligning one so intently that she was measuring how to drape it evenly. (She doth love her joory.) Kody: leaning forward so intently that if you didn't know better you would think he is hard of hearing; so engrossed in the story that his mouth was hanging open. Christine: neutral, looking back and forth like she was at a tennis match. Janelle: checked out, arms folded, head mostly down, rarely looking at anyone. Meri: if they showed her, I didn't see it.

[SometimesBites]

Kody: leaning forward so intently that if you didn't know better you would think he is hard of hearing; so engrossed in the story that his mouth was hanging open.

Thank you for mentioning this! I couldn't believe what Kody looked like when Richard Wife #2 was describing her special man dream. He looked MESMERIZED--I cracked up. What a goober!

[eyebleach]

One more thing than I think I have to leave the debacle that was this episode alone.  WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DID KODY KEEP SINGING SOME STUPID SONG WHEN HE'D SAY THE NAME OF THE CAVE THEY WENT TOO????

 

Ok, I feel better now.

[PecanSandie]

I can't force myself to watch this show, but reading the posts about the show from you guys is just great!

[4leafclover]

 

couldn't believe what Kody looked like when Richard Wife #2 was describing her special man dream. He looked MESMERIZED--I cracked up. What a goober!

 

Because he thought for sure that she was describing him!!!

[ladle]

Was the little girl who had the rooster conversation with Christine straight out of central casting or what?  She was a beautiful little girl, and her speech about polygamy sounded really canned.  I mean, she's probably the family's actual daughter but I wouldn't put it past this show...

[Kohola3]

She was a beautiful little girl, and her speech about polygamy sounded really canned.

 

Totally.  The only thing missing were cue cards.  She wasn't that good an actress - spoke the script in pretty much of a monotone; it was totally transparent.  TLC must have really low expectations of the viewers.  Apparently they have never read these forums.

[ladle]

When Kody made the smug declaration that he was able to say that blessing in Hebrew, I got irrationally stabby. I don't think it's possible for a human being to be a bigger attention whore.

[Teafortwo]

Reviving this ancient topic because I just re-watched this episode and there is a song in the background when the families are about to drive to the "Fantastic Caverns" and I'm trying to find it online by looking up the lyrics "There's a place...all my sons and daughters. Wake up wake up wake up it's gonna take us everywhere". If anyone knows what song this is, I am would love to know! The lyrics are too vague/too general to find the actual song online. It is probably a Christian song. It comes at about minute 31 in the episode.