S12.E01: Spyfall (1)

[tessaray]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

Oddly I like(d) Bill Potts. Strong perspective. Awareness of history and its effect on the present. Asked observant questions. Developed actual respect for the Doctor based on shared experiences. Also realistic human. Also not in love. 
 

what am I missing?

One of my favorite pairings was Seven/Ace, so I enjoyed the professorial relationship with Twelve/Bill a lot.

[Florinaldo]

12 hours ago, benteen said:

This episode being dedicated to Terrance Dicks (a great touch) the man who created created The Master and it had many of its trademarks.

I missed this dedication on first viewing because the end credits were scrunched to the side of the screen by Space in Canada. Dicks was arguably the most prolific DW write, in multiple forms: TV episodes, stage plays, audio dramas and dozens of original novels or adaptations from the show. It's fitting and a bit surprising that a production team in the new era of DW chose to remember someone from the Classic era, people they tend to ignore usually. Also, producer Barry Letts is generally credited a co-creator of the Master.

4 hours ago, tessaray said:

One of my favorite pairings was Seven/Ace, so I enjoyed the professorial relationship with Twelve/Bill a lot.

One of the best pairings for me is in the Big Finish audio plays: Six and Evelyn Smythe. She is an older woman and simply by her voice (and appearance on the cover illustrations) she comes across as senior to the Doctor, contrary to the usual dynamics of him as mentor to younger companions. She does not take any flack from him. Too bad the actress died so the character had to be retired.

That is why Graham and The Doc travelling alone would be interesting; he would look like and act as the older one, even though she has several centuries on him.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Florinaldo

[Sakura12]

 

20 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

That is why Graham and The Doc travelling alone would be interesting; he would look like and act as the older one, even though she has several centuries on him.

It would be fun to see him react to her age since he thought she was joking about being a man before. Or the fact that she was several men before. 

I hope with the Master in the mix, 13 tells her fam more about herself. 

[DanaK]

Costume designer Ray Holman talks about the look for the team for Spyfall

 

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, benteen said:

I liked Bill a lot.  I met Pearl Mackie once at a Comic-Con.  Very nice woman. 

Her resume wasn't very large at the time so it's possible that Matt Lucas was brought on as he is a more experienced actor.  I liked getting that second companion who didn't have a history with the other (in this case primary) companion.  I think that dynamic had been missing from Doctor Who for a long time. 

I don't mind a crowded Tardis.  I just want The Doctor to have more one-on-one scenes with Graham, Yaz and Ryan.

I'm sure she is but her character had a single semi-interesting feature and even that was underplayed. She was just so forgettable. 

19 hours ago, tessaray said:

One of my favorite pairings was Seven/Ace, so I enjoyed the professorial relationship with Twelve/Bill a lot.

Ace and 7 were utterly brilliant, she was a companion who boosted the Doctor rather than distracted from him. 

[Llywela]

Tastes differ so much - which is why no season and no character grouping is ever going to please everyone, because we all like such different things. I really enjoyed Bill, I thought she was a breath of fresh air after Clara. She was so refreshingly normal, and that's what Doctor Who was always meant to be about - ordinary people swept away from their normal lives on an incredible adventure through time and space.

Which is an aspect of Graham, Ryan and Yaz I also really enjoy. I just wish they were allowed to interact on a personal level a bit more, both with each other and with the Doctor. This episode was promising in that regard, mind - I enjoyed seeing Ryan and Yaz off being intrepid together in a sub-plot away from the Doctor, trying to encourage one another and bantering away like the old mates they are, Ryan being so horrified when he thought Yaz was dead and trying to comfort her later. That's exactly the kind of thing I want to see more of as this season goes on, it's the kind of interaction the characters need.

[elle]

4 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Tastes differ so much - which is why no season and no character grouping is ever going to please everyone, because we all like such different things. I really enjoyed Bill, I thought she was a breath of fresh air after Clara. She was so refreshingly normal, and that's what Doctor Who was always meant to be about - ordinary people swept away from their normal lives on an incredible adventure through time and space.

Which is an aspect of Graham, Ryan and Yaz I also really enjoy. I just wish they were allowed to interact on a personal level a bit more, both with each other and with the Doctor. This episode was promising in that regard, mind - I enjoyed seeing Ryan and Yaz off being intrepid together in a sub-plot away from the Doctor, trying to encourage one another and bantering away like the old mates they are, Ryan being so horrified when he thought Yaz was dead and trying to comfort her later. That's exactly the kind of thing I want to see more of as this season goes on, it's the kind of interaction the characters need.

I didn't watch the seasons with 12 when they aired.  I was so disappointed the direction the show went after the movie. I liked Jenna Elfman but did not like what they did to the character.  I will never forgive them for the horrendous Cyberman storyline.  So it was during a holiday marathon that I kept running into the Bill/Nardole episodes.  I agree it was like a breath of fresh air. I even warmed up a bit to 12, a bit.

I'm enjoying this group of companions.  I thought this episode was a fun start to the new season.  I was a bit confused by the tissue compression, is that right, since I had not seen it before.  I assumed the person needed to be alive to keep up the facade but that isn't the case.  I did see episodes with Delgado's Master so this new guy doesn't seem too over the top manic to me.  In fact the only understated or subtle Master I can think of was Derek Jacobi and he had forgot he was the Master.

If this master is before Missy, wouldn't Missy have hinted to 12 about the future regeneration change in the Doctor 's life?  It seems like something she would have enjoyed alluding to.

[AnimeMania]

Oh well, I guess Chibnall has given up the Season 1 formula, portraying controversial historical events and allowing us to learn a little history and empathize with the cultures involved. I enjoyed that format, and it seems like a few highly popular shows, like Watchmen, seem to be benefiting from that formula.

I really wasn't feeling this episode, it seems like it was spinning it wheels, just showing us things until the show would get some traction. I guess the big reveal was the traction it needed. To people who are long watchers of the show the reveal would be epic. To people who started watching with Jodie Whittaker, the reveal and the episode would have been subpar, unless there is somebody there to yell at them how epic the reveal was. Other than the big reveal, not a lot happened.

They stated their evil plan was the take over THE UNIVERSE! and a yawned, that was so 4 or 5 Christmas specials ago, shouldn't they be up 5 of 6 Multiverses by now. I don't want The Master because they won't defeat him by the next episode, they will be fighting him for a half or an entire season. I was hoping to see where Chibnall was taking this unique Doctor, but this seems more like caving to people saying that the show no longer seemed like Doctor Who.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, elle said:

I didn't watch the seasons with 12 when they aired.  I was so disappointed the direction the show went after the movie. I liked Jenna Elfman but did not like what they did to the character.  I will never forgive them for the horrendous Cyberman storyline.  So it was during a holiday marathon that I kept running into the Bill/Nardole episodes.  I agree it was like a breath of fresh air. I even warmed up a bit to 12, a bit.

I'm a little bit confused now - what movie? Who is Jenna Elfman? If you mean Jenna Coleman and the horrible Cyberman story during her era, I agree. I'd enjoyed Jenna Coleman in a few things prior to Doctor Who, but came to dislike Clara so intensely I've not been able to watch her in anything since.

2 hours ago, elle said:

I'm enjoying this group of companions.  I thought this episode was a fun start to the new season.  I was a bit confused by the tissue compression, is that right, since I had not seen it before.  I assumed the person needed to be alive to keep up the facade but that isn't the case.  I did see episodes with Delgado's Master so this new guy doesn't seem too over the top manic to me.  In fact the only understated or subtle Master I can think of was Derek Jacobi and he had forgot he was the Master.

Sorry if we are being confusing. The Tissue Compression Eliminator (TCE) is the Master's most iconic weapon, he used it right through the Classic era, after his introduction in 1971. It is a nasty little weapon that shrinks victims to the size of tiny dolls - the sight of which made a big impression on 4-year-old me in 1981, it is my first memory of Doctor Who! This is the first time that iconic weapon has been used in New Who, though. People who've been shrunk with the TCE are dead (unless they are the Master himself, the only person known to have survived the experience), so the real O wasn't being kept alive in the matchbox to help the Master maintain his face, or anything like that. He was dead. The Master said he'd kept the corpse in case he needed a tissue sample (for whatever reason - he shouldn't need any such thing if it was a regular regeneration and he just chose that face) but I suspect it was really so he could use it to horrify the Doctor someday. And also so the show could give old fans the enjoyment of recognising the weapon.

15 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Oh well, I guess Chibnall has given up the Season 1 formula, portraying controversial historical events and allowing us to learn a little history and empathize with the cultures involved. I enjoyed that format, and it seems like a few highly popular shows, like Watchmen, seem to be benefiting from that formula.

I think the first episode is a bit early to know what narrative formulas are or are not likely to be used through the rest of the season. 😉 This was just one episode, and a seasonal special at that, for which they traditionally go large. Time will tell what the rest of the season is like.

[elle]

28 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I'm a little bit confused now - what movie? Who is Jenna Elfman? If you mean Jenna Coleman and the horrible Cyberman story during her era, I agree. I'd enjoyed Jenna Coleman in a few things prior to Doctor Who, but came to dislike Clara so intensely I've not been able to watch her in anything since.

Okay so maybe I shouldn't be posting things with this head cold. Sorry!

I meant Jenna Coleman. Jenna Elfman is another actress best known for Dharma & Greg.

The movie was meant to be shorthand for "The Day of the Doctor" which was also shown in theaters.

Quote

Sorry if we are being confusing

All of you talking about the TCE wasn't the confusing part for me, it was the in show reference. In fact, I really appreciate all the explanation of or reference to previous Doctor Who episodes.  

Edited January 4, 2020 by elle

[silverstream]

So what's the consensus about everything the Doctor thinks she knows being a lie - just grandstanding by the Master or the seed for this season's red thread plot? I'm intrigued by the inclusion of different universes (have we had any since Ten? I haven't rewatched in forever), and they could do some interesting things with that +  "everything you know is a lie".

I'm taken with O so far, I've always had a soft spot for scenery chewing villains. Did anybody else get they impression that they were building something up between him and Yaz? (Question for the people up on their Classic Who - has the Master ever had a human companion ala the Doctor? 'Cause that could be fun.)

I was a bit confused when Yaz' boss said she might have problems because of the "secondments" - wouldn't that be basically no different than a special work assignment by a higher-up? Her getting in trouble over what was basically an approved business trip (well, a fake one, but he doesn't know that) seemed weird to me.

I thought it was a strange choice that they didn't have Graham go on the spy mission to Barton's company after he reacted so gleefully to the spy gadgets, they could have had him trying to shoehorn in using some of them.

[tessaray]

25 minutes ago, silverstream said:

I was a bit confused when Yaz' boss said she might have problems because of the "secondments" - wouldn't that be basically no different than a special work assignment by a higher-up? Her getting in trouble over what was basically an approved business trip (well, a fake one, but he doesn't know that) seemed weird to me.

I think he said it's problematic because she hasn't finished her probationary period.  

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, silverstream said:

I'm taken with O so far, I've always had a soft spot for scenery chewing villains. Did anybody else get they impression that they were building something up between him and Yaz? (Question for the people up on their Classic Who - has the Master ever had a human companion ala the Doctor? 'Cause that could be fun.)

I was a bit confused when Yaz' boss said she might have problems because of the "secondments" - wouldn't that be basically no different than a special work assignment by a higher-up? Her getting in trouble over what was basically an approved business trip (well, a fake one, but he doesn't know that) seemed weird to me.

Chang Lee in the TV Movie probably counts as the Master attempting to have a human companion at his side in imitation of the Doctor, although it only lasted through the movie and he'd already lost the kid to the Doctor by the end of it; his true colours always shine through eventually. The character more traditionally goes for alliances with aliens who have vaguely similar goals, however, and it always backfires on him and he is always surprised by the double cross.

Like @tessaray said, Yaz's boss was worried about her 'secondments' getting in the way of her finishing her probationary period - can't pass probation if she is never there to complete the requirements.

9 hours ago, elle said:

Okay so maybe I shouldn't be posting things with this head cold. Sorry!

I meant Jenna Coleman. Jenna Elfman is another actress best known for Dharma & Greg.

The movie was meant to be shorthand for "The Day of the Doctor" which was also shown in theaters.

TY, I've never seen Dharma & Greg so the name didn't mean anything to me. And to me, Day of the Doctor was just another special episode, so the only movie I associate with Doctor Who is the 1996 TV Movie, hence my confusion! Hope your cold gets better soon. 🙂

[DanaK]

As I recall, The Master did have a human wife during the 10th Doctor’s era, who then shot and killed him, then mucked up his resurrection

[Llywela]

20 minutes ago, DanaK said:

As I recall, The Master did have a human wife during the 10th Doctor’s era, who then shot and killed him, then mucked up his resurrection

True, I thought of her, but she was more a part of his disguise than a companion, really. Chang Lee played more of a companion role, he's the closest the Master has come I think to a Doctor-type companion. So far. 

[silverstream]

7 hours ago, tessaray said:

I think he said it's problematic because she hasn't finished her probationary period.  

 

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Like @tessaray said, Yaz's boss was worried about her 'secondments' getting in the way of her finishing her probationary period - can't pass probation if she is never there to complete the requirements.

But isn't that like your section head telling you you can't do something that the CEO of the company ordered you to do? Dunno, it just seemed weird to me, but I don't know anything about how police training in the UK works, so...

[DanaK]

 

 

[Florinaldo]

21 hours ago, elle said:

I did see episodes with Delgado's Master so this new guy doesn't seem too over the top manic to me.

For my money Delgado was the most restrained version. He certainly liked to gloat, but he did it with panache and elegance. Whereas Ainley was reduced to constant OTT cackling. Something he did not like but when he tried to tone it down he was overruled by show-runner John Nathan-Turner (whose artistic sense was not always the most judicious).

Delgado's performance was close to Jacobi's version after the Master regains his memory.

Simms was the first to go truly overboard, something they seem to have retained for this new version, at least in his first appearance. Missy was also rather manic at times, but she toned it down at intervals. Perhaps the O persona will do the same.

I will leave aside the several versions in the audio dramas, by people as diverse a Derek Jacobi or Mark Gatiss, because that would really complicate the discussion.

1 hour ago, silverstream said:

But isn't that like your section head telling you you can't do something that the CEO of the company ordered you to do?

In some professions, there are legal requirements you need to fulfill in order to graduate succesfully from your internship and qualify as a certified professional. Police work would fall in that category; it is not as arbitrary as in a private company where the CEO can bend or rewrite some of the rules.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Florinaldo

[DanaK]

I’ve seen quite a few comments from people online saying one of the improvements over last season was splitting up the team to do important stuff. I don’t understand this because the team split up several times in Series 11 to take care of things. I can think off the top of my head Rosa, Kerblam, The Witchfinders, It Takes You Away though that was mostly Ryan who was separated, and Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

One thing I’m a little unclear on is about the Master reveal. The Doctor went from uh oh to OMFG. What was she initially thinking after she saw O’s house from the plane window and then went Ohhhh? The Master then went on to give her another clue with Spy...Master and she seemed to fully understand. What was her likely understanding after the house reveal, that O was not who he seemed and had betrayed them somehow but not that he was the Master?

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I’ve seen quite a few comments from people online saying one of the improvements over last season was splitting up the team to do important stuff. I don’t understand this because the team split up several times in Series 11 to take care of things. I can think off the top of my head Rosa, Kerblam, The Witchfinders, It Takes You Away though that was mostly Ryan who was separated, and Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

One thing I’m a little unclear on is about the Master reveal. The Doctor went from uh oh to OMFG. What was she initially thinking after she saw O’s house from the plane window and then went Ohhhh? The Master then went on to give her another clue with Spy...Master and she seemed to fully understand. What was her likely understanding after the house reveal, that O was not who he seemed and had betrayed them somehow but not that he was the Master?

It isn't just splitting up, it's how the characters are used when they split up - ideally, those sequences should be used to help us get to know the characters a bit better by letting them form closer bonds with one another. Last season there was a heavy focus on Graham and Ryan's relationship, which was fine, that was actually really nicely done - but there was almost no sense of any other relationship among the group. There were very few personal conversations between Graham-Yaz, for instance, or Ryan-Yaz, to help us get a sense of these characters as people who are travelling together and living together about the TARDIS, having this incredible experience, and forming individual relationships as a result. And the Doctor had very few meaningful conversations with any of them - she either addressed them as a group, or kept things strictly business. In an ideal world, letting the group split up gives us a chance to see how different pairings relate to one another, gives them a chance to bond, but that only works if they are allowed to have conversations about things other than the plot. In this episode Ryan and Yaz bantering about Yaz's sister, and Ryan later comforting Yaz about her scary experience was perfect, and something I'd like to see a lot more of. I really believed in them here as mates who've grown closer as a result of their shared experiences.

As for your second question, I think the Doctor really thought the Master was gone from her life this time, and then when she saw the floating house she probably had a good idea what it meant but didn't want it to be true, but then when he pushed her a bit more, she could no longer deny it even to herself.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Llywela

[Sakura12]

I think after Missy the Doctor thought the Master was truly gone this time. However with all the time the Master keeps showing up alive again The Doctor shouldn't be as shocked. 

I also think the floating house being a Tardis made the Doctor realize but not want to accept it. So he had to spell it out for her accept it. I really hope this makes 13 talk to her Fam about her life. Having them face another member of her kind should make her have to talk to them. 

[tennisgurl]

I really should have seen the whole spy master thing, I mean, spy master, it was right there! Thats exactly the kind of ridiculousness that the Master, especially in his more recent incarnations, loves. 

I thought this was a pretty good start to the season, I often enjoy these big flashy season openers, and I thought this one was pretty good. The aliens seem interesting, and I hope that maybe this is some of kind of other universe kind of deal, I think that could be really cool. We haven't done other universes in awhile that I can remember, so that might shake things up a bit. 

So I guess I didnt realize that the Doctor hadn't told her current companions, like, anything about her and her past, not even that all of her past incarnations were men! Do they even know she had previous incarnations? Or anything about Galifry? I guess with the Master back in play again, and this whole "its all been a lie!" thing, she is going to have to clue them in on a few key things. I hope that it leads to them all bonding a bit more and getting to know her better, as, while I like this bunch in general (if it can be a bit crowded) it seems like the Doctor has kept a bit of a distance from them that I would like to see closen over the season. As for this whole "its all been a lie!" thing, I suspect that it either wont be that big of a deal (maybe the Doctor was actually one credit shy of her Doctorate?) or its the Master just being the Master and messing with her. Traditionally, big new changes in the Doctors mythology have been greeted with...less than thrilled reactions, and story wise they haven't been very successful either (remember when the Doctor was part human for like three lines?) so I dont think there will be any huge major changes. 

Stephen Fry is always great to see, even if I was sad that he was killed off so quickly. Its kind of hilarious to me that MI-6 knows about aliens and stuff (obviously they would know or they're pretty shit at their jobs) but just consider that to be someone elses department! Like there is a letter shoot that they send all the weird stuff down to Torchwood or whoever, or at least did before it all got shut down. I think its time to look into reopening some of this stuff though, or at least adding an X-Files division or something.

[Sakura12]

The Doctor mentioned being a man previously a few times but since she or they didn't follow up on that, Graham thought she was joking about it. Even when C thought he was the Doctor he didn't pick up on it. He had to have O Master say it again.  Has she even mentioned being a Time Lord/Lady? I think that was a small issue I had with last season. They call themselves a Fam but they don't talk to each other or really know anything about each other. They are time traveling with an Alien and none of them are pushing her for answers about her species, her planet? I got it in the beginning but usually by the end of the first season they companions got some knowledge of the Doctor's history or who she was. 

[DanaK]

Graham did say to O that they would ask the Doctor about things but she would avoid answering, so it looks like they will learn more things this season. I think the Doctor strongly wants them to be family because she’s so lonely but she didn’t want to open up to them

It certainly seems surprising the team didn’t learn much about her last season, but Chibnall and/or BBC seemed determined that the first season would be stripped back and be easy access to lure back old viewers and entice new ones, including much of the Doctor’s mythology and old monsters, then to add things back in in subsequent seasons 

 

I think the Master’s it’s all a lie thing is probably about the glowing aliens and the current crisis and not anything about the Doctor’s history. 

Chibnall has made it clear that the team will learn more about the Doctor this season and that Gallifrey and Time Lord will be mentioned. It seems clear he’s upping the ante this season and certain gripes will be dealt with

[DoctorAtomic]

I was spoiled for the reveal because the FB DW page felt the need to blare it out nearly immediately after the show aired. But - I did enjoy watching it unfold to see if I could pick up on any tells. Funny that I watched the actor in Dracula on netflix yesterday too. I really liked how he got on the plane and slowly unfolded. I didn't know the house was the TARDIS!

I enjoyed last season and felt a lot of the griping was just butthurt whining or whinging. I thought with such a big change that the taking the show as a soft reboot was a good choice. The stories were good.

I do think it is a bit of a challenge with a larger main cast to keep everyone involved and relevant to the plot, but perhaps the longer running time does help with that. I thought this episode was a bit of a slower pace, but still very much drew me in while still having really good character moments.

I prefer the more scarier stories like this.

I know this is a stretch, but there's a scifi book called Radixx that have beings called 'vors' that are essentially made of light who came from the gamma burst at the center of the galaxy. I can't imagine that Vor was a reference to this, but wow if it was.

The whole car chase was hilariously ridiculous. I like how the sonic can open a plane.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

On 1/4/2020 at 10:36 AM, Llywela said:

Which is an aspect of Graham, Ryan and Yaz I also really enjoy. I just wish they were allowed to interact on a personal level a bit more, both with each other and with the Doctor. This episode was promising in that regard, mind - I enjoyed seeing Ryan and Yaz off being intrepid together in a sub-plot away from the Doctor, trying to encourage one another and bantering away like the old mates they are, Ryan being so horrified when he thought Yaz was dead and trying to comfort her later. That's exactly the kind of thing I want to see more of as this season goes on, it's the kind of interaction the characters need.

That's why I think the longer running time serves the cast better.

[heisenberg]

On 1/2/2020 at 12:46 AM, Prower said:

Okay, who directed this episode and why do they hate humanity?!

Director: "Let's establish this scene with a wide. Very nice. Now go into a close up, now extreme closeup, closeup, and 5 more extreme closeups! Okay, now let's do a shoulder shot, but so close up, you can barely see an inch of the other persons shoulder!"

Camera man: "Should we maybe shoot something in between wides and closeups?"

Director: "I don't understand, what in between?! That reminds me, even in quiet scenes with people talking, remember to film handheld and shake the camera around a bunch!

I also can't forget to tell the editor to cut every 2 seconds! You can't let anything breathe. Otherwise people might notice how shit the script is!"

After finishing Mr. Robbot recently and marveling at the gorgeous cinematagrophy there, this dumpster fire was quite a shock. It was so bad in some parts I couldn't even concentrate on the episode. But maybe that was a good thing...

 

Most of the characters are still annoying and the acting is still mostly bad.

The writing is way worse than the acting.

The cinematagrophy sucks...

Why am I doing this to myself?

So Unit is just gone? Well that's kinda dumb. I hope the next showrunner reveals they were just underground.

All of the Tardis team should have died 10 times over, when they got shot at and I was so rooting for it.

We all know that a billionair wouldn't have a passanger jet, but a private luxury jet and they just used it because they still had the set from the first scene. Right? Right.

That was probably the worst master reveal ever. Character gets introduced pretty much exactly half way through the episode, 30 minutes later "Yeah I'm the master btw. and now I'm way crazier than Jon Sim on his worst day, right off the bat!" I literally said "Oh, fuck you." out loud at my screen. Why slowly tease and reveal a new master, when you can just throw him in. I want Michelle Gomez back pronto and throw in a bunch of new writers while you are at it!

99% sure that was about them aging faster than they should. Precisely because the doctor would drop them off a minute after pickup. These writers have just no idea how doctor who works...

Yeah, and the motor bike chase...  Lol!  Even the Banana Splits Monkees were more convincing!

[DanaK]

The Doctor was also probably horrified at the Master reveal because she and probably past Doctors have been having an email/text correspondence with O for awhile. You wonder what they have been telling him

[Sakura12]

The good thing about Doctor Who is if you don't like the current Doctor or writer you can wait for the next one or rewatch previous ones. The Moffat era with 11 & 12 made me lose interest and stop watching. I even tried multiple times to watch those episodes. 

I'm enjoying 13 so far, not saying it doesn't have its issues it does, but nothing is making me lose interest. 

[elle]

12 hours ago, Llywela said:

Hope your cold gets better soon. 🙂

Thanks!  At least it waited until I came home from vacation to reveal itself.

5 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

For my money Delgado was the most restrained version. He certainly liked to gloat, but he did it with panache and elegance. Whereas Ainley was reduced to constant OTT cackling. Something he did not like but when he tried to tone it down he was overruled by show-runner John Nathan-Turner (whose artistic sense was not always the most judicious).

Can't blame the head cold for this one.  I consistently mix up the names.

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I also think the floating house being a Tardis made the Doctor realize but not want to accept it. 

Never occurred to me that was what that was.  Flying houses immediately makes me think of the house in The Wizard of Oz, so I thought maybe he was indicating this was all a dream.  But then, we see the Doctor zapped to wherever that place is threatens send you.

After the Master's reveal I wondered if the earlier scene where he takes out all but one of the aliens at the farm had been set up to make it look like he was fighting them.

I had to look up the word "secondment" during the show then explain it to my family.  Love learning new to me words.

Edited January 5, 2020 by elle

[DanaK]

As I indicated I was going to do earlier, I saw this at a local movie theater with Part 2 and a cast Q&A. I enjoyed watching it in full a second time around. I thought I would be bored watching it again in full, but I wasn’t. It looked and sounded great on a movie screen. The noise the white aliens were making when they appeared really boomed

This time around, I got that Sonya was asking Yaz for Ryan’s number at the beginning. For some reason, I thought she was asking for her boss’s number or maybe a message from him, to check up on her or something. That bit makes sense now

[Gramto6]

The floating house made me think of the cafe Ashilda(sp?) and Clara took off in during the Capaldi(?) era.

[benteen]

Roger Delgado was the best Master.  His interaction with Jon Pertwee's Doctor was so good.

[taanja]

On 1/4/2020 at 11:36 AM, Llywela said:

Tastes differ so much - which is why no season and no character grouping is ever going to please everyone, because we all like such different things. 

Exactly! I loved the Peter Capaldi Doctor  -- especially with Clara -- but once Bill and the other dude joined -- I was bored. Or underwhelmed. Or something. 

Same with Amy and Rory. Only Amy Pond was just TOO MUCH and Rory (or maybe it was the actor?) was like heroin chic. Dude always seemed strung out! <<<and not in a good way.

I haven't really 'bonded" with any of the new companions. Like someone said up-thread -- they are kind of like the furniture -- just sort of there. But I've watched Doctor Who since the 70's and I know the companions are always a changing -- so all I have to do is hang on and wait for that to happen

Maybe I'll get lucky and the Master will kill them all! Not sorry!

[DanaK]

I have to say, Part 1 is immensely fun to rewatch for O’s parts, especially after you’ve watched both parts. You notice different things about O’s actions, reactions and words. It’s interesting to watch Sacha’s subtleness 

Edited January 8, 2020 by DanaK

[andipandi]

Glad to have new Who; I love the companion mix; but a lot of things felt rushed or weird to me and my fam:

MI6 acting like aliens were strange/distasteful/beneath them, at this point, was odd. The whole world knows about aliens after Downing Street/daleks/etc. If you're not going to fund Unit or Torchwood, then deal with it. Also get bulletproof glass.  Waste of Stephen Fry.

I was spoiled that there would be some master reveal, and saw it coming; Compared to the subtle dance that the missy intro was, this felt off. The doctor should have reacted differently, based on how it ended with Missy.

Pandison immediately thought this was a post-simms Master, not a most-missy master. Rest of Pandifam agreed. Yet if so, how did this master recognize this doctor? and Vice Versa?

The whole plane scene: this is a dream right? mind control? because things are blipping in and out (how did barton escape the plane) and suddenly ryan can fly it?

We all agreed we needed a "previously on" segment.

 

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, andipandi said:

The whole plane scene: this is a dream right? mind control? because things are blipping in and out (how did barton escape the plane) and suddenly ryan can fly it?

 

Spoiler

Barton got whisked away by either the Master or the aliens.

As for the plane rescue, timey whimey. The Doctor rescued them by setting it up to get Ryan's attention to the instructions and the video she created that got brought up when he connected something to his phone (as instructed). He was then able to level out the plane and some auto-guidance pre-planned route thing by Barton then got activated to land the plane. She got reminded at the end she needed to rescue them so she went and did it. Confuses me some as it seems backwards, in that they got rescued by the Doctor who then gets alerted by Ryan she has to go rescue them

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by DanaK
Spoilers

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, andipandi said:

I was spoiled that there would be some master reveal, and saw it coming; Compared to the subtle dance that the missy intro was, this felt off. The doctor should have reacted differently, based on how it ended with Missy.

The only thing is that the Doctor had travels outside of the show so it could have been a long time since she really thought about the master. 

While it's possible that this is an in between master, typically the new versions have been in chronological order as we've seen them right? 

[DanaK]

The 7-day consolidated figures are in and Part 1 got 6.9 million viewers overall, 2nd place for the week to Dracula Part 1's 7 million

[AudienceofOne]

I hate this NuWho nonsense that the Doctor can't recognise other Timelords on sight. I hated it in Moffat's era and I hate it just as much now. I mean, yeah, we get great twists like this but it overthrows about 50 years of canon. Having said that...

On 1/2/2020 at 1:30 PM, jcin617 said:

I know Time Lords’ personality changes between regenerations, so I’m assuming this Master put aside everything Missy decided to be (e.g. standing with the Doctor) and went back to psycho-Master mode?

... I guess Chib like the rest of us are happy to pretend that Missy nonsense never happened. I think that contradicts my original statement, oh well...

Nobody expects logic either from the show or from fans.

[DanaK]

On 1/2/2020 at 11:44 AM, chitowngirl said:

I love that he calls her “Doc”!

I read somewhere that this was Bradley Walsh's idea, apparently having to do with his Cockney roots of shortening things or something

Final consolidated numbers for Part 1 were 6.89 million viewers with an Appreciation Index of 82. It was 8th for the week (ending Jan 5). There were a few days of Coronation Street ahead of it plus a Fireworks special and Call the Midwife

Edited January 13, 2020 by DanaK

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I read somewhere that this was Bradley Walsh's idea, apparently having to do with his Cockney roots of shortening things or something

The Doctor has definitely mellowed with age - the First Doctor was very strict about not wanting to be called Doc. No one ever tried it twice!

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Llywela said:

The Doctor has definitely mellowed with age - the First Doctor was very strict about not wanting to be called Doc. No one ever tried it twice!

When I first became a fan (beginning with Nine), I made the mistake of typing Dr. Who.

I only did it once.

[Llywela]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

When I first became a fan (beginning with Nine), I made the mistake of typing Dr. Who.

I only did it once.

Go back to the early years of the show and that is how he was listed in the credits: Dr Who. And many times since, in fact - including for a while in New Who. It isn't a name he has ever used on-screen, but he's been credited as it often enough that you can call him that if you want! Don't let any gatekeeper tell you it is wrong. 🙂

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Go back to the early years of the show and that is how he was listed in the credits: Dr Who. And many times since, in fact - including for a while in New Who. It isn't a name he has ever used on-screen, but he's been credited as it often enough that you can call him that if you want! Don't let any gatekeeper tell you it is wrong. 🙂

Good to know! I was roundly scolded for it. I feel better!

[Eulipian 5k]

On 1/5/2020 at 11:54 AM, tennisgurl said:

Torchwood or whoever, ... before it all got shut down. I think its time to look into reopening some of this stuff though, or at least adding an X-Files division or something.

Yaz!! She finds Martha Jones, visits Jack at the rehab center, and joins Silurian Osgood to revive Torchwood!!!

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Yaz!! She finds Martha Jones, visits Jack at the rehab center, and joins Silurian Osgood to revive Torchwood!!!

I think you mean Zygon Osgood. Silurians are something else entirely. But yes, I agree with this plan! Except that it should be UNIT, not Torchwood. Yaz is ideal UNIT material, she really is. She needs to drag Kate Stewart out of whatever retirement she's been forced into, and together they can revive the old outfit in its original form: small-scale, top secret, and chronically under-funded, but nonetheless out there fighting the good fight to defend the planet when the Doctor isn't around.

[Eulipian 5k]

21 hours ago, Llywela said:

I think you mean Zygon Osgood. Silurians are something else entirely.

Thx, @Llywela. Apologies to Mme Vastra and all the other Silurians sleeping below.

Does the Mickey/Ricky/Martha UNIT still exist? (Is it  in Pete's World or ours?)

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Eulipian 5k
Edit removed,wrong episode

[Llywela]

18 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Thx, @Llywela. Apologies to Mme Vastra and all the other Silurians sleeping below.

Does the Mickey/Ricky/Martha UNIT still exist? (Is it  in Pete's World or ours?)

I don't even know any more, it's all got so confusing.

Lemme think. Mickey took the place of Ricky in Pete's World - but then he came back to our world and married Martha, if I remember right. Martha joined UNIT and later spent some time at Torchwood, on secondment, or whatever...but Torchwood is now defunct. Last we saw of UNIT, there was no sign of either Mickey or Martha, so I guess they must have moved on by then - Moffat-era UNIT was all about Kate Stewart and Osgood and Zygons (I'm still cross about what they did with the Zygons). And then the whole thing blew up into absurdity with UNIT having the power to declare the Doctor president of the world (seriously, what?). And now it seems the whole thing has imploded, so that UNIT is also now defunct.

So I guess the answer is no, UNIT doesn't still exist, in any form. Which is a shame because joining UNIT would be the ideal end for Yaz's character journey, really.

[DoctorAtomic]

It was mentioned before I think - maybe that's where she is headed; to revive UNIT. She's probably still a little too green in her traveling right now, but she could grow to realize the need for it.