Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[ffwbe]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Well—ouch. Having sex on the kitchen counter isn't romantic to me. Though the point about sweeping everything onto the floor is correct.

LOL, it really was. This story really needs to get moving. Like most of them, the pacing is terrible. For a while, things were pretty good in that department. The stories were still stupid, but at least they were progressing. What happened?

 

I think the storylines that progress quickly are the ones that mainly involve characters who aren’t on a lot. Anything involving Sonny/Carly/Carly’s kids tends to get dragged out for eternity and involve months of repetitive conversations since they don’t get cycled like the others do and the show can’t come up with 8 storylines a year for that group. 

[lala2]

All the stories drag if you ask me! Austin and Mason have been having the same conversation for months!! Liz’s story was dragged out. The Hooker was awfully paced and dragged out too. I swear Michael has been talking about this revenge for over a year now.

GH drags plots out to the point no one cares anymore!! If Michael's silly revenge plot had played out closer to the actual incident, it would look better for him. Now, he looks super petty! You have a new baby, your wife is dying, you have company issues (I think) —— but getting revenge on Daddy for falling in love when he had amnesia is still a top priority?!? Michael looks like an idiot who needs to get his priorities straight!! The fact that this is still the top priority for him is not a good look. 

Another problem with GH is the conclusions to their arcs never justify the length of the journey! All those months of Carly keeping secrets for the end to utterly fizzle out. Curtis and Portia are clearly staying together but so much time was wasted on that secret. If the plan isn’t to shake things up, why is so much time wasted on the setup?!? GH gives no return on your investment. They’re building up this Pikeman stuff but it will probably fizzle out too.

Edited March 8, 2023 by lala2

[slayer2]

46 minutes ago, lala2 said:

 

Another problem with GH is the conclusions to their arcs never justify the length of the journey! All those months of Carly keeping secrets for the end to utterly fizzle out. Curtis and Portia are clearly staying together but so much time was wasted on that secret. If the plan isn’t to shake things up, why is so much time wasted on the setup?!? GH gives no return on your investment. They’re building up this Pikeman stuff but it will probably fizzle out too.

You're right. Everyone "reacts" for the totality of the episode then they all just go about their lives and their day and the impact is never felt. It's cheap, lazy writing with no payoff. Why did we have months of the Hook storyline that was supposedly centered around Trina but she never got to confront Heather about Rory or making her life a living hell? Sonny didn't want to confront her about Brando? Diane, Ava? Bueller? And this may he back awhile but did Sasha ever find out Esme locked her in that closet? Will Liesl ever learn that Britt died saving Joss' life? What is the point of these beats if they don't get played? A waste of everyone's time, the actors, the audience, the set crew. Pointless!

[Daisy]

40 minutes ago, lala2 said:

GH drags plots out to the point no one cares anymore!! Of Michael had gotten revenge sooner, it would look better for him. Now, he looks super petty! You have a new baby, your wife is dying, you have company issues (I think) —— but getting revenge on Daddy for falling in love when he had amnesia is still a top priority?!? Michael looks like an idiot who needs to get his priorities straight!! The fact that this is still the top priority for him is not a good look. 

Honestly, these people need to write their storylines like telanovellas. 13-14 weeks top. in out, go. done. i mean as much as we kvetched about it  then, if you cut out maybe 35% of the length it was i think a really goodish storyline and the end was REALLY good once it started to ramp up. (and it was great to the point where you could... get where Carly was coming from even if you hated her. which I think is good writing). 

People wer debating this on reddit that all the values that Sonny installed in him that is making Michael mad it's just more than the cheating and it's that Sonny betrayed his beliefs about family first etc. and I am like it really isn't though. I can't remember Sonny ever saying that no one had the right to be mad at Nina. what he had constantly said it was more complicated then just "Nina hurt the family." and that he honestly just wanted to take advantage of his second chance. Joss, Carly and Michael couldn't do that.. Note that Sonny has 3 children old enough to weigh in here, and the only one pissed off is the one who is spawned by Carly. Kristina even flat out said that while she was mad at Nina (rightfully so) she wasn't going to judge the woman because she made bad mistakes too. 

and as I've said. if this was truly about divorcing himself from Sonny and everything he stands for, Michael would have marched his butt to PCPD, talk to MAC (because we know Jordan wouldn't do anything), and spill all the tea. the fact that he hasn't (or Carly for that matter) means at the end of the day they are just full of the crap.. 

[ffwbe]

6 minutes ago, Daisy said:

and as I've said. if this was truly about divorcing himself from Sonny and everything he stands for, Michael would have marched his butt to PCPD, talk to MAC (because we know Jordan wouldn't do anything), and spill all the tea. the fact that he hasn't (or Carly for that matter) means at the end of the day they are just full of the crap..

I might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure he’s said his revenge plan involves sending in the info to the cops anonymously, which is not only cowardly but probably wouldn’t work because you’d need witnesses to help make a case. It still make for a bad story because Michael has years of knowledge of things Sonny has done since it hasn’t been hidden from him but suddenly he needs a man on the inside to get info. 

[Daisy]

15 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure he’s said his revenge plan involves sending in the info to the cops anonymously, which is not only cowardly but probably wouldn’t work because you’d need witnesses to help make a case. It still make for a bad story because Michael has years of knowledge of things Sonny has done since it hasn’t been hidden from him but suddenly he needs a man on the inside to get info. 

yeah that's my point too. if he was working with Mac. they would create a sting operation where they would have a legal warrant and all of that so when it did go down it wouldn't be thrown out of court by technicalities. MIchael is giving himself enough outs that should he change his mind, he won't do annything he'll ultimately regret. 

[Sake614]

The only one who knows ESme locked Sasha in the closet is Esme. And she has amnesia. So I’ll give them a pass on that. Liesl should be 2+2 together and realize that Joss is alive because of Britt. I mean, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces! There’s no way anyone in that town shouldn’t know by now, and I’d love to see Liesl rip into Joss.  But you know since Carly brokered a truce between Liesl and Willow, Liesl probably won’t seek retribution or even have a harsh word to say to the little witch.

[Daisy]

Cam is playing soccer in Stanford. 
bye Cam be free!

[mostlylurking]

Playing catch up….I thought Molly looked fine as an ADA.  She’s just really petite so it will always look a little like she’s “playing” adult (I can relate).  I’m also happy Hayley has stopped messing with her face, she’s so young and pretty it’s unnecessary (not that it’s ever necessary obvi).

Egads, that slap was painful.  I love Liz, but yeah, Liesl has a right to be pissed.  

I wish I didn’t strongly dislike all three of them because the scenes where Willow is talking to Carly and Joss about the wedding were well done.  Laura and Eden hit the right emotions with being sad but trying to cover it with happiness.  Facial expressions on point.  They are all just so unbearable it’s hard to appreciate.

Edited March 8, 2023 by mostlylurking

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

and as I've said. if this was truly about divorcing himself from Sonny and everything he stands for, Michael would have marched his butt to PCPD, talk to MAC (because we know Jordan wouldn't do anything), and spill all the tea. the fact that he hasn't (or Carly for that matter) means at the end of the day they are just full of the crap..

Michael weaseled himself out of it by saying he doesn't want to hurt Donna and Avery by being the direct cause of their father's downfall, but of course the stupid little shit has no problems outsourcing it. Michael is such a wienie. 

[ffwbe]

On the one hand, I’m kinda glad Cam is getting written off if he is since pairing him with Joss and the aftermath did him a disservice and I can’t see him getting anything better. Also better to get a good exit than getting killed off trying to save Joss from the Hooker so she would be free to move on to someone else. On the other hand, too many characters tied to Laura are disappearing and I hate that. She should be a central character but it doesn’t feel that way when so many of her relatives aren’t around. 

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Michael weaseled himself out of it by saying he doesn't want to hurt Donna and Avery by being the direct cause of their father's downfall, but of course the stupid little shit has no problems outsourcing it. Michael is such a wienie. 

Meaning he doesn’t want them to know he was behind it because they might hate him for it. Like I said earlier, he’s a coward 

[Daisy]

3 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

On the one hand, I’m kinda glad Cam is getting written off if he is since pairing him with Joss and the aftermath did him a disservice and I can’t see him getting anything better. Also better to get a good exit than getting killed off trying to save Joss from the Hooker so she would be free to move on to someone else. On the other hand, too many characters tied to Laura are disappearing and I hate that. She should be a central character but it doesn’t feel that way when so many of her relatives aren’t around. 

I will say this. I do like Will Lipton, a lot. but this is where you just recast, because I agree with you. 

 

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Michael weaseled himself out of it by saying he doesn't want to hurt Donna and Avery by being the direct cause of their father's downfall, but of course the stupid little shit has no problems outsourcing it. Michael is such a wienie. 

lol seriously. they'd be hurt either way so just be a man about it and do the right thing, dipstick.

 

6 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Meaning he doesn’t want them to know he was behind it because they might hate him for it. Like I said earlier, he’s a coward 

pretty much all of this. 

Oh look. we could totally have a medical storyline with a disease that could always come in play.... and we're just gonna poof it away.

shut up, show. 

[mostlylurking]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:05 PM, Daisy said:

Show... do not make Molly pregnant. DO not. 

My first thought as well.  I don’t think anyone is currently pregnant and Willow gave birth all of five minutes ago so someone’s gotta fill the void!

[ffwbe]

I’ve been ffwing some scenes lately so maybe this has been addressed but is Esme in Spring Ridge pending a trial and or has she already been convicted? If she’s being held without bail, why, and what is being charged with? We know she wasn’t the hooker so is it just the sex tape? I know thats a felony but I don’t think it’s considered a serious enough crime to hold someone in jail before a trial. Also, I think even in the states that allow a baby to be taken into jail with you, it’s only once you’re convicted and serving time. 

[dubbel zout]

I would love it if Liesl fails her physical and can't donate marrow, so Willow falls into a coma. GH looks anew at some tests and it turns out Nina is a match, because someone tampered with it. The looks on the Carlys' faces would be almost worth the inevitable groveling Nina would have to do, as well as being blamed for the test being wrong in the first place. 

[lala2]

I guess in real life I would probably give my mom the side eye if she told me she held someone prisoner but b/c this is a tv show . . . . I just can't. All the drama about Esme and what happened to her is so OTT in my opinion. Other characters have done much worse on this show, and no one has blinked an eye. Carly literally kidnapped someone's grandmother, and everyone just brushed it off. We know the edit of this Esme incident would be entirely different if it was Carly in Liz's place and Josslyn/Michael in Cam's. They would tell their mom she was right to do what she did and that Esme had it coming. No one would need to think about it alone in their room. Carly wouldn't be crying. She would proudly announce what she did and dare anyone to have a problem w/it. I'm sick of the double standard on this show. 

Niz did what they did. Esme started it. Nik finished it (for awhile). Who cares? I don't care about Esme, and I hope Spencer gets custody of her kid. Something bad needs to happen to her. It's clear she's gonna get away w/drugging and framing Trina and murdering that other dude. The least that could happen is her losing her kid! 

So, any news on WL? Is he leaving? I assume he is. This is probably the show's way of recasting w/an older-looking, more muscular dude later. I like WL but am fine w/him leaving. I also like Cameron and unlike others on this show, I think they would write for Cam more if he was available. 

I hope Sprina kiss again soon! Trina was looking really pretty today. 

I know Portia lied to Curtis but he's an ass. Something he said to her made me think, "Man, forget you." LOL! Maybe it was the way he said, "I'll try" or whatever he said. Ugh . . . I can't stand him. 

[Bringonthedrama]

28 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Cam is playing soccer in Stanford. 
bye Cam be free!

Cam and Elizabeth's joy over his scholarship to play soccer at Stanford was truly the best part of the show!! I really love their mother-son bond. WL showing Cam's shock and dismay at his mother's confession and asking for his forgiveness. Then her tears at his ILY and giving her credit for having the courage to confess to the police....Beautiful. He's upset with his mom but still believes in her.

"Scott put someone else's needs above mine and my Britta's."  That would be his family, witch. You'd think lightning would strike her in hypocrisy as she calls out Victor on being a narcissist.

Laura did a good job of empathizing with Esme and trying to talk Spencer down. One question though - Laura spoke of giving birth to her first child at around that age and being surrounded by enemies. I thought Laura was married to Scott when she was 20ish, and her pregnancy with Nikolas/being held prisoner by Stavros was years later?

I assume that Esme's line "protect you with my life" is an anvil?

Portia crying to and pleading with Curtis is pathetic.

 

[tessaray]

Laura was 17 when she married Scott. So yeah, she would have been in her early 20s (if that) when Stavros kidnapped her.

[ffwbe]

So is Esme’s pointless baby just an excuse to keep her in town and for people to interact with her? The amnesia is giving her way too much of a pass since we know the show’s more decent characters won’t bother calling her out when she doesn’t recall what she did. I’m annoyed 

[dubbel zout]

I'm sorry to see William Lipton go, but at least Cam is leaving Port Charles alive. That's unusual on this fakakta show.

FINALLY, someone mentions a DNA test to Curtis.

[ffwbe]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm sorry to see William Lipton go, but at least Cam is leaving Port Charles alive. That's unusual on this fakakta show.

FINALLY, someone mentions a DNA test to Curtis.

I thought he already brought it up but he can’t do anything since Trina isn’t interested in getting one since no matter what, she considers Taggart her dad. I guess he could pull a Carly and get one behind her back but it’s not legal without her consent 

[jqdeco]

My niece is an attorney, mid 30s and looks 10 years younger because she is so petite. I’m fine with Molly looking young for her age.

[mostlylurking]

Love seeing the Davis girls all together.  They truly act and look like they could be related.

I know Alexis has always been scattered and neurotic but she seems to have even more tics and quirks as of late.  It doesn’t help that this storyline with Gregory is beyond boring.  Waste of two good actors.

We haven’t seen Maxie in a while and I don’t think she’s washed her hair since he saw her last.  Yikes.  Really bad.  I did love her reactions during the Brooklyn/Sasha scenes.

Omg the morgue scenes were amazing.  So campy and good.

Edited March 8, 2023 by mostlylurking

[perkie1968]

Dear Show:

Port Charles is not located in California.  It's located near New York, which is somewhat across the border from Toronto.  Here in Toronto today it's 1 degree with a windchill of minus 4.  That's actually warmer than yesterday when it was minus 5 with a windchill of minus 12.  The baby is in an undershirt and nothing else.  No socks.  No clothes.  No coat.  And he's going outside where it's not California weather where an undershirt would be fine.  Also Laura, the fact that he's "just going down to the garage" does not make it warmer since the garage is also NOT in California.  PUT SOME FREAKIN' CLOTHES ON THAT GORGEOUS GIANT BABY!!

36 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I’ve been ffwing some scenes lately so maybe this has been addressed but is Esme in Spring Ridge pending a trial and or has she already been convicted? I

Not convicted.  There has been no trial.  She was remanded to Springeridge to await trial but then the Heather/Ryan stuff happened.  She's charged with the revenge porn and attempted murder on Oz that put him in a coma.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by perkie1968

[perkie1968]

27 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

FINALLY, someone mentions a DNA test to Curtis.

Curtis himself brought it up to Trina when he saw her at her dorm last week.  But she pulled a brat and was all, I dont' care cuz Taggert is my dad no matter what.  Which I accept but at the same time, she's not the only victim here and Curtis has the right to know.  

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I thought he already brought it up but he can’t do anything since Trina isn’t interested in getting one since no matter what, she considers Taggart her dad.

It's about time Portia thought of a DNA test. You know, the doctor.

[YaddaYadda]

31 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm sorry to see William Lipton go, but at least Cam is leaving Port Charles alive. That's unusual on this fakakta show.

I was surprised that he's leaving, so I'm assuming the Joss cheating and breakup may have had to do with that, which is really dumb writing if that's the case.

That said, Cam gets to live out his dreams in California and become a soccer superstar, while Joss dates a mob flunky/murderer. That's like the best possible outcome.

[Cheyanne11]

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I was surprised that he's leaving, so I'm assuming the Joss cheating and breakup may have had to do with that, which is really dumb writing if that's the case.

That said, Cam gets to live out his dreams in California and become a soccer superstar, while Joss dates a mob flunky/murderer. That's like the best possible outcome.

Yeah, the good is getting away from Toxic Joss and living his best life as an ace soccer player at a prestigious school.  The bad is the implication that he couldn't bear to be around and pine for said toxic ex.   Like her ego isn't big enough already.

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, Cheyanne11 said:

The bad is the implication that he couldn't bear to be around and pine for said toxic ex.

Is anyone going to hold that against Cam? I sure don't. Good on you for putting as much distance between you and your dumb cheating girlfriend as possible, Cam!

[ffwbe]

16 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

That said, Cam gets to live out his dreams in California and become a soccer superstar, while Joss dates a mob flunky/murderer. That's like the best possible outcome.

I’ll settle for Cam being a good enough soccer player to get a scholarship to Stanford while Joss got waitlisted from her dream school despite being the daughter of a billionaire. 

[Josh371982]

I want Cam to go tell Micheal that Dex is banging his sister before he leaves town lol

Edited March 8, 2023 by Josh371982

[ffwbe]

13 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Yeah, the good is getting away from Toxic Joss and living his best life as an ace soccer player at a prestigious school.  The bad is the implication that he couldn't bear to be around and pine for said toxic ex.   Like her ego isn't big enough already.

I’m sure she’ll think that but wasn’t he going to Stanford originally? He only changed his mind to go to PCU after Franco died because he wanted to be there for his mom and brothers. Considering it’s been 2 years, that’s plenty of time to focus on himself now and what would be best for his future. 

[statsgirl]

Yes, Cameron turned down Stanford because Franco died and he wanted to be there for his mother and brothers (who have now apparently disappeared. Liz will still be a single mother but it's nothing that she hasn't handled before.

Bye Cam. You were the one truly good guy who wasn't boring. I will miss you.

Do US universities have 4 quarters since Cam wants to be there for 'the spring quarter'?  Canadian ones have 3 (September-December, January-April, May-August).

Oh Elaine, I know that good men of a certain age are scarce in Port Charles but Victor? Really?

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Michael weaseled himself out of it by saying he doesn't want to hurt Donna and Avery by being the direct cause of their father's downfall, but of course the stupid little shit has no problems outsourcing it. Michael is such a wienie. 

Donna and Avery will still be just as hurt as just as missing their father. They just won't blame Michael for it which seems to be all that Michael cares about. #coward.

Evidence that it wasn't Sonny being held captive for 6 months by Nina that is the problem, nor Sonny choosing Nina over Carly (because he didn't, he wanted to stay married to Carly), it's Sonny not wanting to take revenge on Nina.  Gosh, the Carlys are such swell folk.

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

I’ve been ffwing some scenes lately so maybe this has been addressed but is Esme in Spring Ridge pending a trial and or has she already been convicted?

That's what I was thinking, she hasn't been convicted of anything. They originally put her in Spring Ridge when they thought that she was the Hook but now all she could be charged with is the sex tape and maybe drugging Oz but there is no proof of that. She should be out on bail, especially with a baby.

And if Spencer had any brains, he would be taking toys and other baby things to Spring Ridge to show what a caring guy he is.

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

Maybe he also took the gargoyle.  

If it still has Ava's fingerprints on it, well she has every right to touch it as it's her possession in her house.

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

 Nina has been actively resenting Willow since after she realized that Nelle was her dead daughter and Willow was raising Wylie and she wouldn’t budge in letting Nina see him.

Resenting her with every right. Nina just found out that her daughter died (Carly and Jax couldn't be bothered to tell her) and the only grandchild that she will ever have she is not allowed to see because Willow neurotically wants to erase Nelle from existence and be the only mother Wylie will ever know or have. Willow and Michael have the legal right to keep Nina from Wylie but it's a rotten thing to keep Nina from her only descendant for such a petty reason. It's not Nina's fault that Nelle was stolen from her and raised by a sociopath who sold her kidney for cash and created what the show calls a monster.

[Blackie]

43 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

The baby is in an undershirt and nothing else.  No socks.  No clothes.  No coat

Not to mention no baby supplies. Is he going to get his own little giant baby orange jump suit? I hope Laura doesn't pull out any of her gorgeous hair trying to get Spencer to settle down the animosity towards Esme.

 

Meanwhile Giant Baby was so cute when he was holding his own soother

[CeChase]

I love William Lipton, but the Cam character calls for  a recast.  I'm bummed.  

[perkie1968]

18 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Meanwhile Giant Baby was so cute when he was holding his own soother

He was knawing away at that thing like it was his job!!  All I was thinking was that he was likely teething, which is hilarious when you think that he's only three days old!!!

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Oh Elaine, I know that good men of a certain age are scarce in Port Charles but Victor? Really?

That's what I thought but then I felt bad because I'm sure CS is a nice guy!!  Also loved Liesl's absolute disgust when Victor offered to 'keep her company".  KG had great face in that scene.  

19 minutes ago, CeChase said:

but the Cam character calls for  a recast

Does he though?  Love Cam and the relationship between Cam and Liz.  Love William and the clear love and respect that he and Becky have for each other.  But Cam doens't have much going on right now other than being a student who works too hard.  I have no problem with him going away and possibly returning periodically to visit.  As Robin and Emma occasionally do.  

28 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She should be out on bail,

Who's paying for her bail though?  

[Katy M]

43 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Do US universities have 4 quarters since Cam wants to be there for 'the spring quarter'?  Canadian ones have 3 (September-December, January-April, May-August).

Most have 2 semesters, but Stanford apparently has 4 10 week quarters.

[slayer2]

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I’ve been ffwing some scenes lately so maybe this has been addressed but is Esme in Spring Ridge pending a trial and or has she already been convicted? If she’s being held without bail, why, and what is being charged with? We know she wasn’t the hooker so is it just the sex tape? I know thats a felony but I don’t think it’s considered a serious enough crime to hold someone in jail before a trial. Also, I think even in the states that allow a baby to be taken into jail with you, it’s only once you’re convicted and serving time. 

She drugged Trina, coerced Cam and Joss into having sex, filmed it, distributed it then planted the phone in Trina's purse and called an "anonymous" tip about it so 3 separate crimes there. Then she drugged and attempted to murder Oz (who sold her the black market phone) and he almost died as a result. She also set Ava's car on fire and did a few other messed up things to her while stalking her. I don't think Spencer confessed to ALL of that although even if he did that's still 4 separate and serious crimes on Esme's hands. Serious enough to hold her without bail especially when Oz went on the stand and clearly stated that he sold her the black market phone and that she drugged him to cover it up.

 

Even more so because each crime thereafter showed malicious intent and careful planning and plotting. You can't even say she did these things on a whim, which courts tend to take into consideration for "first time" white, female defendants. These were all calculated and even worse the attempted murder of Oz was a calculation to cover up her crime. So she can't even argue "temporary insanity" or that she felt or showed remorse for her former crimes.

Don't know why they're forcing cute 8 year old baby to go with her either. Seems like a stretch but hopefully that means I'll get a temporary reprieve from babygate.

Edited March 8, 2023 by slayer2

[Daisy]

47 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It's not Nina's fault that Nelle was stolen from her and raised by a sociopath who sold her kidney for cash and created what the show calls a monster.

girl, yes it is. because she was in a coma hello.

[JMO]

For quite a while now, my favorite relationship on the show has been the one between Cameron and Spencer.  They've supported one another, challenged one another, stepped in and stepped up for one another.  I don't think the writers realize how powerful a functional male friendship can be on a soap.  Most of those we see now tend to be calculating and superficial.  I would love to see the kinds of relationships we saw with Mac and Kevin, Frisco and Robert, Luke and Robert. Or the brotherly interaction (also a la Cam and Spencer) of the Scorpio and Jones boys.  

As it's obvious Spencer will have much focus in the near future, he's going to need more in his sphere than some dysfunctional adult relatives, a girlfriend, and another dysfunctional ex.  So, if William Lipton is just going away for the short term, and will be back during his summer break, fine.  If he's gone for good---and I'd be sad to see him go---then yes, we need a recast.  And if we get one then, please, writers, don't ruin the character.   

[perkie1968]

2 minutes ago, JMO said:

then yes, we need a recast

But William was lightning in a bottle and you know whoever they get to replace him will be some model type, that's way too old to be Liz's kid, but looks pretty with his shirt off while he has no idea how to emote.  No one wants that.  Remember Marcus Coloma?!!!

Hey, maybe they can hire  all four of the twin boys that are currently playing Amelia and Ace!!!!

[Gigi43]

If WL is done they should recast Can. He belongs as a character on the show. Plus him leaving will will make it easier for the show to keep Joss' cheating a secret. There are already to many missing legacy characters. Then maybe Cam can get a chance at a good story. The actor, while good, isn't too good to replace. 

 

As much as I hate Joss, I do think she, Cam and Trina as Esme's victims are being too separate from Esme's story. Instead of Spencer saying he's taking the baby over and over, she should have to hear from the other people she hurt. 

 

 

[perkie1968]

1 minute ago, Gigi43 said:

she should have to hear from the other people she hurt. 

Yeah, it's curious how those three are completely removed from the story as though they're moving away from it now that Esme has amnesia.  Why bother having Joss or Cam or even Trina confront her if she doesn't remember doing it.  

[dubbel zout]

54 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

coerced Cam and Joss into having sex

How? Esmé certainly needled Joss, especially, about not having slept with Cam, but no one forced them to have sex. If they were feeling peer pressure, that's on them.

54 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

Don't know why they're forcing cute 8 year old baby to go with her either.

No one is forcing the giant baby to go anywhere. Esmé is his mother. She has not been shown to be abusive or neglectful toward him. Suck it, Spencer. Your claim on the baby isn't a given.

[slayer2]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

How? Esmé certainly needled Joss, especially, about not having slept with Cam, but no one forced them to have sex. If they were feeling peer pressure, that's on them.

No one is forcing the giant baby to go anywhere. Esmé is his mother. She has not been shown to be abusive or neglectful toward him. Suck it, Spencer. Your claim on the baby isn't a given.

Filming them against their consent is a crime however anyone feels about Joss. Drugging, a crime. Attempted murder and framing, crime.

The massive baby should be with Laura and Kevin. Esme has been shown to be unstable.

Edited March 8, 2023 by slayer2

[Cheyanne11]

4 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

Filming them against their consent is a crime

But she didn't coerce them into having sex.

[slayer2]

3 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

But she didn't coerce them into having sex

She nudged them so she could crime. That's the point and that is the kind of malicious intent that has her locked up. Are y'all really making a case to free Esme? Mother sympathy is one thing but, c'mon.

Edited March 8, 2023 by slayer2

[Bringonthedrama]

3 hours ago, lala2 said:

We know the edit of this Esme incident would be entirely different if it was Carly in Liz's place and Josslyn/Michael in Cam's. They would tell their mom she was right to do what she did and that Esme had it coming. No one would need to think about it alone in their room. Carly wouldn't be crying. She would proudly announce what she did and dare anyone to have a problem w/it. I'm sick of the double standard on this show. 

Yes it would be different - because Carly is a narcissist  without a conscience, and has raised her children to be just as entitled and self-centered as she is.  She was proud of being attached to "strong" men like Jason and Sonny who had the "power" to hurt or kill people/make them disappear forever.  That is in direct contrast to Elizabeth, who was never, ever comfortable with or capable of acknowledging that Jason could and would kill people for Sonny.

Elizabeth told Scott before she turned herself in, that to be a good mother and role model for her  boys she couldn't go on like this. She had to come forward, and not be a coward. She's a nurse and has been pregnant herself in the past, so she knew that keeping a pregnant woman prisoner - especially once they knew Esme was not the Hook killer - was wrong. Cameron also has much more character as a young person than Josslyn ever had. That's why he's upset to find out that the mother he loves, who is his primary female role mode he's looked up all his life, would be involved in a serious crime.  He and his mother both have self-awareness about right and wrong, juxtaposed with Carly and Joss and the rest of their family who find ways to justify whatever they have done regardless of who has been harmed and how severely.

That's one of the reasons I really liked their scenes in contrast to any scenes Carly has with her children. Elizabeth has basic goodness inside her, which is why she often struggles with guilt when she's done wrong.  Goodness and real feelings of guilt are totally alien concepts to Carly. The only time she seemed to feel genuine guilt was when Morgan died, and then she basically shrugged it off with a "thank God" upon finding out the bomb that killed him was from a Jerome because she felt that somehow absolved Sonny, and herself, or responsibility for his death. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Bringonthedrama

[Cheyanne11]

6 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

Are y'all really making a case to free Esme? Mother sympathy is one thing but, c'mon.

This is a show where crimes are routinely hand-waved away.  I don't know where they're going with this right now, but I don't need to see her locked up.  

[ffwbe]

@Bringonthedrama IA completely with your post. It’s a weird catch-22 for me with show because while I get frustrated that my faves frequently face repercussions for this actions while someone like Carly never does, I also probably wouldn’t like them as much if they constantly skated and felt no guilt when they did something. I like that they feel more human and rounded as characters and sometimes have to be down. It’s also much more compelling to see issues arises within their relationship with their family or friends or seeing actions impact their jobs, even though it’s very uneven.