S09.E09: Final Girl

[Bali]

On 11/14/2019 at 9:04 AM, sashayshante said:

If This is Us can age Mandy Moore with little trouble, I'm sure they could have done something similar for Emma Roberts that wouldn't break the bank. If you are going to forego any kind of aging make-up, at least write a plausible explanation. She looked exactly the same. No amount of fillers in the world can erase 30 years of aging.

I graduated in 1988. There were at least 4 people at my last reunion that looked exactly like they did then. Different hairstyles, but they haven't aged at all. And also- google Giada de Laurentiis' grandmother. The woman looks younger than Giada. 

Moving on. I loved this season. I don't exactly follow the people who said this season made no sense and wasn't linear. This was the most coherent season I've seen in years. I don't view the backstories of the characters as being something that doesn't matter. The backstories are what led all of these characters to the camp in the first place.  I don't think the story shifted from the ghosts to some new random character. That random character was a direct descendant of one of the first characters on the show. (Maybe the first did the first episode start with a shot of the keys?) 

Plus- there's that soundtrack. 

[sashayshante]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The Living Years was a perfect song to end the season on, especially if you see the season as being about looking back at the past, moving on, and, of course with the last half, family. Bobby looking back at his ghost family just hit me right in the gut. 

Meant to comment on this because it's such a great insight. I wish they had played this up more and made it more obvious from the start that the theme was redemption and letting go of the past. They hinted at it here and there with each character all having something in their past that caused them great shame but they kinda dropped the ball in favor of the more campier stuff. The ghosts are all stuck because they can't let go of the past and wanted revenge. (Montana's obsession with the 80's is a good example, too.) Jingles was given the choice to stay at the camp and seek revenge or let go and stay with his mother and brother. He chose to let go.

[sashayshante]

4 minutes ago, Bali said:

I graduated in 1988. There were at least 4 people at my last reunion that looked exactly like they did then. Different hairstyles, but they haven't aged at all. And also- google Giada de Laurentiis' grandmother. The woman looks younger than Giada. 

It's the old adage show, don't tell. If you have to throw in a bunch of dialogue to explain something, that's poor storytelling and even lazier writing. Also, nobody is able to defeat or stop the aging process. Those friends at the reunion either had really good work down or have naturally fuller faces, which means more collagen in your face, which means fewer or less pronounced wrinkles. Italian women and men age exceptionally well because genetically we tend to be stockier and fuller figured. Brooke was petite and thin. Thirty years of aging would have shown on her face.

11 minutes ago, Bali said:

I don't exactly follow the people who said this season made no sense and wasn't linear.

The finale is an example of linear storytelling. Bobby showed up to the camp looking for answers and wanting to meet his father. Throughout the episode, we saw him get closer and closer to those goals, with the required set-backs to make the story more compelling, and then ultimately achieving the goals. Three acts with the sub-plots of how they got revenge on Margaret and kept Ramirez from killing him.

This season wasn't linear because it was never clear where the story was going and why. It was a series of sub-plots that ultimately never went anywhere.

[Red Bridey]

I just wish some Walking Dead characters would take lessons from Margaret Booth and other psychotic AHS characters and just KILL annoying people. How many times do I shout "Just kill him!" at random good guys, when geez, AHS kills off people right left and center. Even if they never stay dead for long LOL!

[Dobian]

I liked the finale, it was very satisfying.  I really enjoyed the season overall.  The actors all got into their roles, and there wasn't a single one that was annoying to me.  Billie Lourd and Emma Roberts were fine.  Great job tying up the plot in the present day.  Only nitpick on the finale is that they could have at least "tried" to make Emma Roberts look like she was in her 50s.  Were they running out of money on the makeup budget or something?  The season was very campy, even by AHS standards.  It really worked as a comedy-suspense story, and there was so much blood and carnage that it was more schlocky and humorous than horrifying.  I'm still waiting for the AHS season that is truly terrifying.  They have had moments of pure terror scattered about in the different seasons, but it would be great to have a dark season where it's just scary all the way through.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Dobian

[farmgal4]

Hi, all!  I need your opinions!  I’ve watched 4 Seasons of AHS:  Murder House, Asylum, Apocalypse, and 1984.  I loved all of them!  Which one should I watch next on Netflix?

Thanks in advance for your help!😈

Edited November 16, 2019 by farmgal4

[Chaos Theory]

30 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Hi, all!  I need your opinions!  I’ve watched 4 Seasons of AHS:  Murder House, Asylum, Apocalypse, and 1984.  I loved all of them!  Which one should I watch next on Netflix?

Thanks in advance for your help!😈

I like Hotel.   But that is the Lady Gaga season and her presence tends to annoy a lot of people.   But I think it is the most fun the show has ever been.  

[refugee]

This was as an exciting ending for this series...watched it 3x.

Not my fav AHS but when it's all said and done this production is marvelous in comparison to the wasteland of cable TV, so thank you to tptb.

[SG11]

I was torn most of the season. It seemed like they had no continuity or end game so they kept tacking on stories because they were running out of logical places to go. Actually, I have found that to be a theme on many AHS seasons.

I did like when the writing stuck to actual events, such as when Ramirez was captured by the mob in Cali, but with the story insert of Jingles being responsible for it. But other times Ramirez was completely inaccurate either by design or convenience which I find annoying. I still can’t get over the concept of the most famous bad serial killer teeth ever, being played by an actor with $30k veneers. He did look a bit like him, though. And what was the purpose of the unnamed “serial killer trainee guy” introduced towards the end? His role had zero purpose and value. Cut off his thumbs? Seriously?

As others have mentioned, for people to buy in to this fiction there has to be believably consistent “rules” which didn’t happen in this show. And the idea that Margaret was chopped into pieces including her head, but because of some 30 second pop science rule we were supposed to believe she wasn’t dead when she was FLUSHED over the fence was flat out stupid.

Speaking of Margaret, she was a good actor as were many in this season. Emma Roberts was very good but she was a little too physically tiny/flawless  to play an 80s girl. She does not look like an 80s girl at all. Cody Fern is obviously the best of the bunch but yeah, looks like he pissed someone off. I will say I did not miss seeing the same actors over and over. Sarah Paulson is a decent actor but overexposed doesnt describe her well enough.

Finally, how do you do an 80s series with no Flock of Seagulls reference until a blink in the finale?

And no, there was nothing, absolutely nothing scary at any point. It was all camp, eventually silly and comedic.

I also think the Jason Voorhees connection was wasted and underdeveloped. The coming out of the lake scene was great though.

The season was still entertaining enough to watch every week.

[jewel21]

I really enjoyed this season and I loved this finale. Everything tied together nicely and we actually got a happy ending for Brooke and Mr. Jingle's son. And that final scene of him staring back at his family was beautiful. 

[Pink ranger]

Normally, adding a new actor in the final episode of the season and making them the protagonist of it shouldn’t work but adult  Bobby in this totally did.  He provided closure to the plot point  of Mr Jingles begrudgingly leaving him as a baby to keep him safe. Also using an AHS alum means the audience is already accustomed to seeing him in the show.

While I was disappointed at not seeing the final big festival that they have been building up towards we at least got to see Kajagoogoo in the last episode perform their one hit. Too many innocent people have died already at that camp so I am glad that Margaret didn’t get to have another victory. 

This season has made me more comfortable with the fact that Matthew Morrison has an Emmy nomination for lead actor in a Comedy.

His delivery of Trevors deadpan humor was very good. I loved that he complemented Bruce’s “ bitchin stache” before kicking him beyond the camp boundaries.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Pink ranger

[Ceindreadh]

It's very lucky that these ghosts hold their original form and not their form at time of death.  Imagine if poor Trevor had had to spend eternity without his, ahem, 'personality'.

IMO the ghosts were a bit foolish when getting rid of Margaret.  By all means do the whole dismemberment thing, but then why not just chuck the head over separately to make sure it was still breathing when it crossed the line.

Am I the only one who initially thought there was no way they'd expect us to believe Finn was 20...and then realized that 1989 was 30 years ago, not 20?

[Dobian]

16 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Hi, all!  I need your opinions!  I’ve watched 4 Seasons of AHS:  Murder House, Asylum, Apocalypse, and 1984.  I loved all of them!  Which one should I watch next on Netflix?

Thanks in advance for your help!😈

It would have helped to watch Coven before Apocalypse.  You can watch that one next as a prequel.  I liked Hotel and Carnival.  Roanoke was the closest they came to a straight-up scarefest, and has some great moments.

[methodwriter85]

On 11/16/2019 at 7:09 PM, SG11 said:

But other times Ramirez was completely inaccurate either by design or convenience which I find annoying. I still can’t get over the concept of the most famous bad serial killer teeth ever, being played by an actor with $30k veneers. He did look a bit like him, though.

It seriously cracked me up this season how pretty Zach Villa is, because it made it impossible for me to take his Ramirez seriously. Dude looked like he could have been in a boy band. I kept waiting for someone to make a joke about Menudo with him. God, Ryan Murphy likes his pretty boys.

On 11/16/2019 at 7:09 PM, SG11 said:

Emma Roberts was very good but she was a little too physically tiny/flawless  to play an 80s girl. She does not look like an 80s girl at all.

The 80's favored a more androgynous, athletic body with broad shoulders. Think Jamie Lee Curtis or Daryl Hannah. Emma's waif look wasn't in at all.

I think they could have tried a bit more with Brooke's hair, which was incredibly too flat for the 1984 scenes, and not teased enough when she did finally curl her hair in the 1989 scenes.

[Bali]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It seriously cracked me up this season how pretty Zach Villa is, because it made it impossible for me to take his Ramirez seriously. Dude looked like he could have been in a boy band. I kept waiting for someone to make a joke about Menudo with him. God, Ryan Murphy likes his pretty boys.

The 80's favored a more androgynous, athletic body with broad shoulders. Think Jamie Lee Curtis or Daryl Hannah. Emma's waif look wasn't in at all.

I think they could have tried a bit more with Brooke's hair, which was incredibly too flat for the 1984 scenes, and not teased enough when she did finally curl her hair in the 1989 scenes.

Brooke's hair was WAY too flat for 1984 scenes. I can excuse 1989 because she was in prison and I can buy that someone wouldn't care enough about Mall Hair if they were on death row.

On 11/16/2019 at 5:47 PM, farmgal4 said:

Hi, all!  I need your opinions!  I’ve watched 4 Seasons of AHS:  Murder House, Asylum, Apocalypse, and 1984.  I loved all of them!  Which one should I watch next on Netflix?

Thanks in advance for your help!😈

I would watch Coven next. I would also watch Hotel, because if nothing else, it has one of the best (if not THE best) ever characters on this show: Liz Taylor. Even people who hated that season loved that character. I enjoyed Freakshow also. But I also LOVE the old movie Freaks.

Hated Roanoke and Cult. 

[Captanne]

Bali, you and I have the same taste in this show.  Especially about Liz Taylor.  OTH, I thought 1984 was boring as hell.  The only light, for me, was Mr. Jingles -- he reminded me of Twisty as a sort of over-sized serial killer who has a heart and is really just misunderstood.  The actor who played Jingles knocked every performance out of the park.  (Interesting moral dilemma -- can a serial killer really self-redeem?) 

Donna also grew on me.  

All the other characters and the storyline were eminently forgettable.

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:30 PM, sashayshante said:

Also, I want to know who Cody Fern pissed off this season to get almost no dialogue in the last few episodes.

Like others said, I suspect he gave an honest assessment of his lines/roles to the producers midway through.

On 11/14/2019 at 8:04 AM, sashayshante said:

If This is Us can age Mandy Moore with little trouble, I'm sure they could have done something similar for Emma Roberts that wouldn't break the bank. If you are going to forego any kind of aging make-up, at least write a plausible explanation. She looked exactly the same. No amount of fillers in the world can erase 30 years of aging.

Instead of a dermatologist husband Brooke should have said she married Jane Fonda's plastic surgeon. Mystery solved!

On 11/14/2019 at 11:24 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

Question tho if they have Richard Ramirez's soul trapped at the camp how did he show up in hotel? if he cant die then how did his soul show up? they just did a big ass plot hole

I suppose the past has been altered since that season, what with how Apocalypse finished up. Maybe originally Satan turned his attention from Ramirez to Michael Langdon back around 2012 or 2013, allowing him to die for reals and escape the camp on Halloween, but with the latter becoming roadkill he decided to continue resurrecting Ramirez until the present like an infernal game of Whack-a-Mole?

On 11/15/2019 at 8:41 AM, sashayshante said:

Italian women and men age exceptionally well because genetically we tend to be stockier and fuller figured.

Say what? Italian men tend to age like milk.

On 11/17/2019 at 6:40 AM, Ceindreadh said:

IMO the ghosts were a bit foolish when getting rid of Margaret.  By all means do the whole dismemberment thing, but then why not just chuck the head over separately to make sure it was still breathing when it crossed the line.

That's what I thought they were going to do—seriously, how stupid would you have to be to think that half-solid gunk being sprayed at high speed out of a wood chipper would count as "still alive" for metaphysical purposes? Did they get the rules of Camp Redrum mixed up with those of The Floor Is Lava and think as long as Margeret's remains didn't touch the ground on their side of the property line it was all good?

[SG11]

I really, really wanted to love everything a poster who was named “Bruinsfan” said, especially with the right jersey in the avatar and everything, but you lost me when you called me “milk.” Wah.

5 hours ago, Captanne said:

Bali, you and I have the same taste in this show.  Especially about Liz Taylor.  OTH, I thought 1984 was boring as hell.  The only light, for me, was Mr. Jingles -- he reminded me of Twisty as a sort of over-sized serial killer who has a heart and is really just misunderstood.  The actor who played Jingles knocked every performance out of the park.  (Interesting moral dilemma -- can a serial killer really self-redeem?) 

Donna also grew on me.  

All the other characters and the storyline were eminently forgettable.

You probably know this already, but, you do know the same actor played Twisty and Jingles...right?

[Captanne]

I think I knew that in the back of my mind about Twisty and Jingles -- but it also stands to reason because this show recycles so many of its actors.

[sashayshante]

18 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Like others said, I suspect he gave an honest assessment of his lines/roles to the producers midway through.

It occurred to me that his role was reduced because they cut the episode count down from 10 to 9 and they needed to meet certain contractual obligations for all the actors. And because it really seems like whatever ending they had planned, they scrapped and re-wrote the second half of the season. It didn't help that he was the only character that had no connection to Brooke or really anybody involved in the main plots. He and Chet both were just kind of there with no purpose.

[phoenix780]

I'll give it to them--I keep thinking about the finale. How did Brooke know that Jingles went to Alaska and had a kid? 

As far as Ramirez and the hotel, wasn't there something in the first season about ghosts getting to go anywhere on Halloween, and he was in hotel for that Halloween party with the other killers? So...maybe there's one night he gets away? 

If this was rewritten halfway through airing, to the extent of swapping out actors, I'm really curious what the original plan was. Hopefully that gets out some day, in a way I notice. 

[AgentRXS]

2 hours ago, phoenix780 said:

I'll give it to them--I keep thinking about the finale. How did Brooke know that Jingles went to Alaska and had a kid? 

I keep thing about it too and the season as whole.

I was thinking wondering about Brooke too. Who would possibly know Jingles had a kid besides Ramirez?

Also, Jonas keeps bugging me. How and why was he the only ghost allowed to leave the campgrounds? Why was he always so dazed and confused?

We saw a bunch of '70s era ghosts in the finale. Why didn't they reveal themselves when the '80s gang arrived and warn them?

Where were the ghosts from the '40s that died from Jingles mom's massacre? Why where she (and apparently Bobby) the only ghosts from that time period? Its pretty messed up that ghosts from two different eras stayed invisible and let the '80s crew walk right into Margaret's trap.

[Tachi Rocinante]

The stage not being weather beaten or picked over was a joke.

Was Ramirez at a different show when he met Billy Idol's roadie? I was FFing some of it.

I'm not as enamored with Lily Rabe as most of you.  She phoned this one in.

[Bruinsfan]

21 hours ago, SG11 said:

I really, really wanted to love everything a poster who was named “Bruinsfan” said, especially with the right jersey in the avatar and everything, but you lost me when you called me “milk.” Wah.

Sorry. I'm of Scotch-Irish extraction, our menfolk don't exactly keep well either. Let's get together to glare at distinguished Latino retirees and bond.

I can see the ghosts' habit of quickly murdering anyone who set foot in the camp from '84 to '89 resulting in the stage and decorations being undisturbed by human hands, but even in California weather would have had more of an effect than we saw, wouldn't it?

[Mattipoo]

On 11/16/2019 at 6:19 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Hi, all!  I need your opinions!  I’ve watched 4 Seasons of AHS:  Murder House, Asylum, Apocalypse, and 1984.  I loved all of them!  Which one should I watch next on Netflix?

Thanks in advance for your help!😈

I would watch "Hotel", "Coven" and " Freak Show" as those are the most iconic seasons along with "Murder House" and "Asylum".

22 hours ago, phoenix780 said:

If this was rewritten halfway through airing, to the extent of swapping out actors, I'm really curious what the original plan was. Hopefully that gets out some day, in a way I notice. 

The last few episodes were rather choppy in terms of plot and storylines, and I feel like they definitely changed or deleted a bunch of stuff. That's probably why there are only 9 episodes. I wonder if the original plan included some kind of "big brother" virtual reality/video game/reality TV show element like the title "1984" implies. Perhaps they ran out of budget and decided to change everything halfway through.

Nice to see Chef Bertie again. She is good people.

[SG11]

9 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Sorry. I'm of Scotch-Irish extraction, our menfolk don't exactly keep well either. Let's get together to glare at distinguished Latino retirees and bond.

I can see the ghosts' habit of quickly murdering anyone who set foot in the camp from '84 to '89 resulting in the stage and decorations being undisturbed by human hands, but even in California weather would have had more of an effect than we saw, wouldn't it?

I’m still not joining your club, ScotchDude. I’m stick with the Hot Guinea crowd, lol.

Anyway, I said the same thing when I saw the decorations. There were still ghouls, even if it was before ebay, that would have gobbled up those horror momementos.

I know... I have a Gacy painting.

[Last Time Lord]

Was this the most upbeat/happy ending the show has had?

This season was a total blast. I’m torn between this and Roanoke as numbers two and three on my top three.
 

Number one is still Asylum, which was as close to perfection I’ve ever seen a show get.  

[Bali]

19 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Sorry. I'm of Scotch-Irish extraction, our menfolk don't exactly keep well either. Let's get together to glare at distinguished Latino retirees and bond.

You think Sean Connery didn't age well? Pierce Brosnan? 

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:09 AM, Captanne said:

I thought 1984 was boring as hell.

 I've just watched this season because it hit HULU and I agree 100%.

My top 2 are  1. Murder House 2. Asylum. And I think Asylum would be my number 1 if it didn't have the UFO shit in it. But I haven't watched a season yet that has matched or outdone those 2. 1984 is now at the bottom of my list along with Cult. 

What I did liked about 1984 is the actors that played Mr. Jingles and the Night Stalker, they knocked their scenes out of the park and Lily Rabe towards the end. But I noticed in the beginning Mr. Jingles walked slow and had a limp or was dragging his leg a little and then sometimes he didn't. Also, it was a joke that Brooke didn't age. Is Emma Roberts so vain she wouldn't allow them to age her or what?

I think they went with the 80's theme due to the popularity of Stranger Things and of course slasher films were big during that time but If they wanted to go slasher they could've/should've done it better. They just tried and failed to rip off Friday the 13th (original) up to Jason coming out of the water at the end with Mr. Jingles in the little boat. And it was stupid that the ghost from the 70's could leave the camp grounds and always looked confused, didn't any other ghost from the 70's talk to him?

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by foxfreakinmulder

[Bruinsfan]

Maybe they did but he didn't remember? He seemed to be repeating events/his actions and not realizing the passage of time.

[sashayshante]

This season was awful. I really want to know what happened that made them cut back on an episode and toss pretty much the entire first half of the season. I also want to hear the tea on why Cody Fern went from a featured character to having one line in the finale.

[Chaos Theory]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:50 PM, Dobian said:

I'm still waiting for the AHS season that is truly terrifying.  They have had moments of pure terror scattered about in the different seasons, but it would be great to have a dark season where it's just scary all the way through.

I know I am late answering this but i do think it’s hard if not impossible keeping up the level of terrifying For nine to 12 hours especially since this show is Technically not a binge show.  A two hour movie it’s easy to amp up the scary for 60-70% of the people who watch (very few shows and movies in the history of cinema will have 100% scary.  What you find scary I might find sleepy.  What I find funny you might find sad so I find something largely successful if it gets 60% of the people to agree).   A season long story is a lot harder to keep truly scary.   You have to have other stories in there as well which lowers the lever of fright which I think is RM biggest problem.   He needs to focus on one big story and the minor ones need to circle around it not the other way around.   But for me it is essentially a minor nitpick because he gets me.

[Black Knight]

Bingewatch complete!

Well, I loved the season and the finale. AHS seems to go with a quieter finale for the more frenetic seasons - I'm thinking of Asylum and Hotel. I found that the method of Montana and Trevor talking to Bobby was good for maintaining the suspense of what happened on that day in 1989.

I knew those ghosts were going to get Margaret. I'm glad it really ended up being them instead of Brooke. Feeding Margaret into the chipper to shoot her remains over the property line was gloriously gruesome. Sure, it was overly elaborate and unnecessary, but that's true of a lot of kills in horror.

And speaking of such, I found Richard Ramirez's outcome quite fitting. Usually in fiction it's the serial killer devising one way after another to kill, but here he's the one suffering it (and presumably Margaret will be enduring the same now that the ghosts know she's on the property). And I agree with what was said upthread, it does seem like the ghosts are using the situation to sate their bloodlust. Montana and Trevor "reasoned" with them not to kill other humans anymore, but given the ways and circumstances they all died and their being stuck there, it makes sense they still need some sort of outlet. But it's also an interesting contrast to Marie Laveau in Coven and Apocalypse, who really couldn't stand being a torturer for eternity.

I'm glad Donna was one of the Final Girls. I think in a way her part was bittersweet. Yes, she survived, and as she noted, she's gotten to have a life. But, she's director of the asylum where Benjamin was kept, which to me means that she has never left Camp Redwood behind either. Also, while I do think that Donna redeemed herself, I also kind of think that her living with guilt for 30 years over Brooke's supposed death was penance she deserved (although I don't believe Brooke meant it that way). A lot of people were killed by Benjamin after she helped him escape, and she knew that was going to happen. I'm glad that she and Brooke were reunited finally, as I always liked their friendship.

The final sequence with Bobby, Benjamin and Lavinia were great. But I also liked how Lavinia turned around, looked at Margaret, and said, "Take her" in such a chilling way. It was fun to see Lily Rabe turn on a dime like that.

This season makes it into my top five for AHS.

[rmontro]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:30 PM, Black Knight said:

This season makes it into my top five for AHS.

A lot of people have complained about how bad this season was, but I liked it.  It definitely had the most heartwarming ending.  I'm not even a fan of slasher movies, but this had all the weird AHS twists and turns that made it fun.  I might place it as high as the third best season (Murder House and Hotel take #1 and 2).

I could have used a little more discussion between Bobby and Mr. Jingles though.  He did make the trip to connect with his father, and really just hugged him and left.  I also have a little trouble believing that Donna just left the camp without talking to the reborn Brooke (as far as she knew), or ever asked about her when she went back to visit.  Those are my only quibbles.