S05.E06: Confidence Women

[MarkHB]

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While a new villain is under arrest at the DEO, Supergirl uses him to try and understand who is responsible for the recent attacks. Meanwhile, Andrea and Lena think back on their tumultuous past.

[mtlchick]

That was sort of a filler episode to me, though it was nice to see Jon Cryer for a bit.  But the bigger issue is, when exactly did Lena pick up her accent that she didn't have in boarding school?

[quarks]

1. So, I guess we've just learned that Lena will not be in the crossover episodes all that much.

2. So, Mean Editor steals and hides the medallion that Lena has been searching for, and yet wears it to a party, knowing that she's a wealthy, somewhat famous woman who could easily be photographed - letting Lena see the medallion?

3. I'm assuming Supergirl couldn't find an appropriate-aged actress with a British accent in Vancouver, and decided not to fly in an actual Brit, but that was a bit jarring.

4. And otherwise....eh. The energy seems to be lacking in Supergirl this season.

[angora]

I enjoyed the Lena-Andrea backstory we got, but I was a bit disappointed - the incepted DEO stuff in the trailer looked cool and eerie, so I was bummed when I realized it was only going to be the last 10 minutes of the episode.

But anyway... Lena having had previous experience with feeling deeply betrayed by a friend who lied to her (one who said, "I wanted to tell you, really, but I just COULDN'T!!!!" like Kara did) makes her current scorched-Earth, no-faith-left-in-humanity reaction at least slightly more understandable. I really enjoyed the flashbacks with Kara and Lena, with Kara gradually winning Lena over and getting her to trust again. Them bonding over how many appetizers they could eat was cute.

Andrea feeling forced into working for Leviathan (while still being somewhat self-serving) is more interesting to me than just her being evil. That reveal worked better for me than the "William isn't a jerk after all!!" reveal from a couple weeks ago. Makes me wonder now if the inevitable havoc that will eventually be caused by the VR tech will be Leviathan's fault instead of Andrea's, or maybe she'll start it as part of some plan to get revenge on Leviathan for killing Russell.

In addition to the Kara-liteness of the episode, we also got hardly any J'onn, Brainy, and Alex, and no Nia or Kelly. Does that mean we'll be getting all of them in the crossover, and not just the Supergirl portion of it? (I have my doubts about Kelly, but this episode makes me more hopeful for the rest of them.)

Hi, Lex! Bye, Lex! It may have been brief, but I'll always enjoy seeing that magnificent bald bastard.

[Jediknight]

Andrea was kind of an idiot.  She wears the medallion that Lena had been looking for, and she lied about to a party.  And she just left the medallion covered in blood for Budget Doc Ock to find.

So, Leviathan first contacts Andrea when she discovers an ancient cave that has ties to aliens, the main contact is still that old woman, and Andrea's powers come from the "darkness" inside her?  Are they really gonna say that Leviathan is an arm of Darkseid, and that's the big bad for next season or the crossover after Crisis?

[Oreo2234]

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In addition to the Kara-liteness of the episode, we also got hardly any J'onn, Brainy, and Alex, and no Nia or Kelly. Does that mean we'll be getting all of them in the crossover, and not just the Supergirl portion of it? (I have my doubts about Kelly, but this episode makes me more hopeful for the rest of them.)

I don't know if this episode has anything to do with the crossover. Since the crossover is episode 9 it probably was filmed before the crossover filming started. Though its possible they wanted to give some of the cast featured in the crossover a break before the filming started. As for how much the Supergirl cast will be in the crossover: 

Spoiler

We know that Lena, Alex, Kelly, Brainy and Nia are all in the first episode. Brainy isn't confirmed for other episodes but I'm pretty sure he will be in more than one. Alex and Nia are also in at least one other episode. J'onn is confirmed for at least 3 episodes and it seems like he will play the biggest role in the crossover among Supergirl's regular supporting cast.  I doubt Kelly will be in more than one episode.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Oreo2234

[BaggythePanther]

The promos for this episode were so misleading, but I still enjoyed it. The Lena/Andrea flashbacks were great. I figured Andrea would be somewhat sympathetic. Lucky for her that her superpowers came with a super suit.

I appreciate the writers giving Lena a backstory that provides more build up for her heel turn. Based on this episode it looks like the situation with Kara is the straw that broke the camel’s back. Would have been nice to get that perspective earlier on.

I feel like I say “Damn it, Lena” at least twice an episode now. Playing her superpowered former best friends against each other was kind of a boss move, but still a bad thing to do.

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

So, Leviathan first contacts Andrea when she discovers an ancient cave that has ties to aliens, the main contact is still that old woman, and Andrea's powers come from the "darkness" inside her?  Are they really gonna say that Leviathan is an arm of Darkseid, and that's the big bad for next season or the crossover after Crisis?

I’ve been saying since the end of last season that the old lady who works for Leviathan is Granny Goodness. That could definitely lead to Darkseid. Isn’t his thing taking over free will? That fits with what Lena is doing right now.

[tennisgurl]

I wish that we had gotten more of possessed DEO, that was a really cool and creepy idea, and it was pretty much a plot device for the last ten minutes of the episode.

Anyway, I did think that the Lena and Andrea backstory was pretty good, as well as seeing bits and pieces of the shows history through the flashbacks and their interactions. We even got to see Rahul Kohli again as Lena's ex, which was a nice surprise, and even better, we got a brief flashback of Lex back when he and Lena were at LutherCorp together and his Superman obsession/hard-on was just getting started! 

Andrea being her very best and apparent only friend as a kid, her betraying her with a "I TOTALLY wanted to tell you but I COULDN'T because REASONS!" excuse, pretty much the same one that Kara gave her, does at least explain more about why Lena is so pissed that she is going full on super-villain about it, or at least gives it some context. Especially after we got all of those cute friendship flashbacks about how she closed herself off to everyone and it was only after Kara adorabled her way into her life that she opened herself up to friendship, only to find out that Kara (and all of their other friends) were all keeping this huge ass secret from her. I get why Lena is so hurt that she would in turn betray everyone out of revenge and bitterness, but I do hope that something else in influencing her. I miss morally ambiguous but still good Lena. 

Andrea is supposed to be pretty smart right? Then why the ever loving fuck would she wear the magic necklace that she is hiding from her best friend at a very public function as a statement piece necklace?!? Even if she didnt expect Lena to be there, wouldn't people till take pictures that Lena might see? Or someone else would comment on that very unusual and specific necklace and Lena would hear about it? Andrea is really freaking sloppy with hiding her one secret medallion! If she had just kept the thing in a locked box, or even just in the bottom of her sock drawer when she isnt using it, so much trouble could have been avoided! 

I originally thought that Leviathan was just another all powerful conspiracy type deal, but now they seem to be more mystical in nature. 

[Oreo2234]

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And otherwise....eh. The energy seems to be lacking in Supergirl this season.

Yeah it does. I think if they aren't going to change showrunners at least hire some new people with enthusiasm and decent tv experience. 

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I enjoyed the Lena-Andrea backstory we got, but I was a bit disappointed - the incepted DEO stuff in the trailer looked cool and eerie, so I was bummed when I realized it was only going to be the last 10 minutes of the episode.

Yeah that could of been the plot of a cool, action oriented, Alex centred episode. But when is the last time we got that? Season Two?

Katie McGraph playing her characters own mother with a bad wig on cracked me up. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Oreo2234

[UNOSEZ]

I dunno if we're supposed to feel sadness for Lena.. But I don't... Felt sad for Andrea moreso... Too bad about Rip Roar I liked the actor.. He woulda been more convincing as William.. 

[Lantern7]

Lesson learned: Andrea has been the absolute worst for a long, long time. Sure, she helped her family, but it basically made Lena go into her shell, and it set up the precedent of being betrayed, which is going to hurt Kara really bad in the near future. Shit, it's hurting her now. Not even getting neat Shadow Thief-adjacent powers wasn't worth that.

I like the security system with the medallion. Someone else touches it, two dudes come out of the ether and beat the snot out of that person. I'm guessing the part about turning into a weird Doc Ock/Robocop cosplay wasn't part of that, though.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Oreo2234 said:

I don't know if this episode has anything to do with the crossover. Since the crossover is episode 9 it probably was filmed before the crossover filming started. Though its possible they wanted to give some of the cast featured in the crossover a break before the filming started. As for how much the Supergirl cast will be in the crossover: 

  Hide contents

Supergirl doesn't always film in strict order, and initial filming for the crossover episodes started during the filming of episode 7 of Supergirl and Flash - which they would have started rehearsing just before and while filming this episode - rehearsals that had to be coordinated with cast members from four other shows who were also doing rehearsals and filming.

Benoist and Gustin in particular have to do significant rehearsal work for stunt scenes, and both were noticeably absent from episode 6 of their respective seasons. This isn't the first time Supergirl has done this, either - episode 306 focused on a young Kara and Alex so that the actors for older Kara and Alex could work on Crisis on Earth-X. 

[thuganomics85]

It was obvious Jack was coming back in the flashbacks due to the previously segment randomly showing him again, but I'm not going to complain about seeing Rahul Kohli on screen again, now that iZombie is gone.  I do hope he starts getting bigger gigs going forward.

Maybe a bit fillerish, but I will say the flashbacks at least do a decent job explaining why Lena has taken Kara's betrayal so hard, and seems to be going off the deep end.  Because there are so similarities to what transpired between her and Andrea, and for someone as closed off like Lena, finding out that two of your friends; probably the only ones you've ever fully trusted; had either lied or kept something massive from you, would probably do a number on someone like Lena.  Obviously, it still doesn't excuse this path she is going down on, but I guess it makes sense.

Anyway, so Angela is working for Leviathan after-all, but mainly against her will, because she was suckered into it (and her powers), due to protecting those that she loves and so forth.  Still not making me really care about the character, but I'll at least give her the edge over William: mainly since Julie Gonzalo is a better actor than Staz Nair.

The majority of the main cast sure got to take it easy this episode, huh?  Hell, Nicole Maines and Azie Tesfai got the week off, apparently!

I'm guessing some of those Lex scenes were extra ones from last season, but it was still great seeing Jon Cryer in the role again, and I really do hope we get a return.

I did chuckle at the image of a young Lex mocking Lena for liking Titanic.  Mainly because I feel like Lex secretly hates the movie because he considered Billy Zane's character the true hero and was pissed he didn't get a happy ending.

I don't think this season has been bad personally, but I do think it lacks some energy and, out of D.C. shows, seems to be the one that is just in a holding pattern until the crossover gets here (while Flash and Arrow seem to be working towards that actual moment.)

[Lady Calypso]

I didn't expect this to be a Lena/Andrea heavy episode but honestly, I feel like it worked really well. I still stand by my previous opinions that the first five episodes had a very cartoony Andrea....but this episode really worked to gain some traction in her favour for me. I understood her motivations better and, although still a bit cliche and predictable, it worked well for me. I ended up also enjoying the twist that Andrea basically has powers on her own. That's what the old man was implying, yeah? That Andrea can do her shadow thing even without the medallion? 

What Andrea did was still wrong, but at least it felt more natural. Unfortunately for William, they really screwed up his turn and I still am not a fan. I'm not a fan of Andrea, but at least they explained why she's antagonistic in the first place. She's still not a good person, but her motivations are understood better.

I also appreciated how it tied into Lena's whole crusade. I still don't like Lena this season, but at least they provided some motivation for her and why she doesn't trust easily. It's good to see that it extended past the Luthor family stuff.

Still, what Lena is doing is wrong and it sucks that she's basically being blatantly obvious with everyone BUT Kara and the DEO. Stop bringing everyone into your lab, Lena! 

The ending was actually pretty creepy. I kind of hope we get more of it. We're already heading toward a zombie-like plot (with the Obsidian devices AND now with Lena's mind control device). Not totally zombie, of course, but the same sort of tone.

[Bulldog]

When Andrea first met Leviathon, why did she think the well dressed, older, grandmotherly woman was panhandling?  I mean, I suppose its possible, but it doesn't seem like that would be the first thing to jump into your mind.

If William and RipRoar were such good friends (as we've been reminded numerous times), how did he not know that RipRoar was dating Andrea, and how did Andrea not know about the friendship?

Always good to see Ravi from iZombie.   Let's make him a regular, show.  

I've always thought that Benoist was the show's weak link (probably an unpopular opinion), so I actually thought the absence of Kara/SG for most of this episode made it one of the stronger shows of the season.  

[UNOSEZ]

6 hours ago, Bulldog said:

always thought that Benoist was the show's weak link (probably an unpopular opinion), so I actually thought the absence of Kara/SG for most of this episode made it one of the stronger shows of the season.  

I think benoist is a fine actress.. But I do think how they make Kara so child-like is annoying at times.. She's written like an emotional bull in a China shop... She's very black or white.. Self-righteous... She's ridiculously optimistic and sometimes naive... 

[MarkHB]

On 11/11/2019 at 12:05 AM, BaggythePanther said:

I’ve been saying since the end of last season that the old lady who works for Leviathan is Granny Goodness. That could definitely lead to Darkseid. Isn’t his thing taking over free will? That fits with what Lena is doing right now.

The original Rip Roar in the comics is a New God, albeit one introduced in Young Justice rather than a Kirby original, so there's that.  And I'll happily take an invasion from Apokolips over the direction the comics are strongly headed re: the identity of Leviathan (#6 hasn't come out yet but 4 and 5 are full of ever-larger anvils, and I DO. NOT. WANT).

[CletusMusashi]

There was one conversational moment that made no sense at all to me. Why did Lena say that her getting that the medallion was the only way she could have stopped Lex? If I understand correctly, Lex needed the medallion in order to flood the atmosphere with kryptonite. But he didn't get it, because Andrea did. So he didn't flood the atmosphere with kryptonite. So, mission accomplished. If Lena wanted it to study, or is just plain angry at her friend for misleadingly tricking her along to help, and then pocketing it and lying, I am totally fine with that. But there was no extrapolation leading me to believe the medallion had some kind of "make your brother not be crazy any more" power, so that one part did sound kind of random.

[MarkHB]

48 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

There was one conversational moment that made no sense at all to me. Why did Lena say that her getting that the medallion was the only way she could have stopped Lex? If I understand correctly, Lex needed the medallion in order to flood the atmosphere with kryptonite. But he didn't get it, because Andrea did. So he didn't flood the atmosphere with kryptonite. So, mission accomplished. If Lena wanted it to study, or is just plain angry at her friend for misleadingly tricking her along to help, and then pocketing it and lying, I am totally fine with that. But there was no extrapolation leading me to believe the medallion had some kind of "make your brother not be crazy any more" power, so that one part did sound kind of random.

That's a great point. I was more hung up on the "Superman just came on the scene a year before Kara?" timeline.

[DavidJSnyder]

15 hours ago, Bulldog said:

When Andrea first met Leviathon, why did she think the well dressed, older, grandmotherly woman was panhandling?  I mean, I suppose its possible, but it doesn't seem like that would be the first thing to jump into your mind.

I kind of suspect that at some point there were supposed to be more Leviathan characters and at some point it got changed to the woman we've seen before without properly updating the script.

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

That's a great point. I was more hung up on the "Superman just came on the scene a year before Kara?" timeline.

I hope this isn't part of a plan for the Superman and Lois and series.  We've had years and years of Kara intros where she said she came to Earth and her cousin was already Superman.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

I hope this isn't part of a plan for the Superman and Lois and series.  We've had years and years of Kara intros where she said she came to Earth and her cousin was already Superman.

I believe Superman and Lois is going to be going-forward from the present, but regardless of that, I wouldn't chalk this up to anything more frightening than a writers' room that has serious issues with show history, or math, or both.

[Trini]

Yeah, wasn't expecting this to be 75% backstory; and mostly Lena and Andrea. But I did appreciate the intro to Leviathan - even though I don't think they make sense at this point.

I guess it cool that the writers had the flashbacks line up with events from previous episodes, but I was doing too many mental gymnastics trying to remember everything that happened previously and when.

So now I've got some sympathy for Andrea - still a bad boss, though. But not for Lena. I get she's hurt, but her actions now are just WAY out of proportion to whatever wrongs she thinks have been inflicted on her. (Reminds me of Syndrome from The Incredibles -levels of supervillainy.) I mean, she has weaponized mind control now.

"What's the DEO?" - ha! Right, that place is supposed to be top secret.

William and the actor aren't terrible, but they're kind of bland.

Couple of nitpicks: Alex is awesome and all that, but she shouldn't have been able to take down Brainy in simple hand-to-hand, from what they've shown of his fighting (yes, even if he was trying to 'do no harm'). Convenient how the rules about the medallion change to fit the plot. (No goon squad when Lena takes it??)

[ottoDbusdriver]

All Andrea needs now is an annoying daughter named Ruby.

I was a bit bored by the retconning/flashbacks.

[Rushmoras]

IDK, I found the whole episode to be kinda boring. I better liked Batwoman's Alice/Beth flashbacks last week, than Lena/Andrea flashbacks here. And this is probably due to what I've stated in the first episodes topic - I cannot stand IT themes in movies and series, because they always make it to be boring or laughable. But now, instead of IT theme we now have a magic theme mixed up in all of this. A magic medallion, which activated Andrea's powers to enter Yu-Gi-Oh's Shadow Realm. Yay?

Edited November 14, 2019 by Rushmoras

[nuraman00]

I don't like what they've done with Lena's character.  Her getting betrayed by her friends isn't a good enough excuse to turn her into a villain who is attempting to play God and control people's minds.  Or kidnap Eve Tessmacher and turn her into what she is now.

They spent years building her up as someone who would not lie or kill, like Lex has done, yet she's already done that this season (by what she's done with Eve, and Malefic).  She's done experiments on them against their will.  And IMO, she's "killed" Eve.

At least last year, when she was doing experiments, it was still on a voluntary basis, with the Harun-El.

I don't like Brainy very much, I preferred Winn more.  And I thought being able to incorporate his backstory with his dad being the Toyman, from time to time, was more interesting to me.

I can see someone like Manchester Black turning, but still not Lena, based on how they've built her up for years.

And I'm disappointed they went this route.  It would have been cooler if they kept finding ways for her to not resort to what she's doing.

I also find it unrealistic in how Lena is both good at medicine, and technology.  It takes the smartest people years just to be good at one of those.  And there is so much information to learn in both of those fields, that someone can't be an expert at both.  A more realistic situation would have at least had someone offer advice in one of those areas.  They could still show Lena figuring out the solution, but consulting another expert's opinion in either medicine or technology from time to time would be better.

The backstory with Andrea was predictable and not that exciting, IMO.

Last year, when they had the episode showing Ben Lockwood's entire backstory, I thought that was a great episode.  Much more believable too.

Even if Andrea wanted the medallion for herself, she didn't need to keep it a secret at that time when she was underground, from her best friend.  She could have just explained her reason on why she also needs it, and maybe the two of them could have come up with a solution for both of them to use it.  Or come up with something.

And like has been mentioned several other times in this thread, Andrea wearing the medallion ruined a lot of the backstory for me.  It was dumb.  Ben Lockwood, in his backstory episode, didn't have a moment like that.

Also, as someone who doesn't watch other CW shows, I didn't even know there were crossover episodes that would be started on The Flash and Arrow, until last year.  I don't think they did a good job advertising that next week's episode would involve a crossover, until last year.  They would show that Flash would be in a Supergirl episode, but I didn't know that Supergirl would also be on other shows too.

Also, I never watch previews for upcoming episodes, because I don't want spoilers.

So for me, there needs to be an explicit commercial, sometime at the end of a Supergirl episode, but before previews start, detailing exactly which other shows will be involved in the crossover, and what dates and times those episodes are.

Having watched the other shows for the first time last year, I was lost on all of the backstory jokes in The Flash and Arrow.  Especially when characters swapped lives, with other characters, but they didn't know it.  So all of the jokes pertaining to how others perceived them, were lost on me. 

I would rather a crossover episode just be different groups joining forces to fight enemies in different locations, without so many backstory jokes involved.  But that's me.

I don't know if I'm going to watch another crossover, if that's what it's like, again.

[nuraman00]

Also, has has been mentioned in other threads, I'm disappointed that Lena found out about Supergirl through Lex.  That is another reason I'm disappointed in what is happening to Lena this season.

The experiments she was doing with the Harun-El last season, are a better way to show her using debatable judgement.  (James Olsen didn't agree with what she was doing, for example).  What she's doing this season is even worse, and I don't like having her against Kara either.

[MarkHB]

2 hours ago, nuraman00 said:

Also, as someone who doesn't watch other CW shows, I didn't even know there were crossover episodes that would be started on The Flash and Arrow, until last year.  I don't think they did a good job advertising that next week's episode would involve a crossover, until last year.  They would show that Flash would be in a Supergirl episode, but I didn't know that Supergirl would also be on other shows too.

I have just posted the schedule for the crossover, with no spoilers of any type, here. The previous post to that one also notes that two of the installments will be followed by a special chat show hosted by Kevin Smith. Feel free to PM me if you want more info about which Arrowverse characters will be in it, but I would expect Kara to be in all the episodes.

[ruby24]

I don't trust this show to make Lena into a supervillain. I actually would like it if they did, if it really was a parallel with Smallville, where she does embrace her Luther identity after all, but there's just no way they have the guts to do it. They'll redeem her in some lame way.

[CabotCove]

A good Lena centric episode, Katie Mcgrath shined throughout the episode. Lena is really becoming my favourite in this show. She is always up to some crazy ish and i love it. 

Did not care however about the Lena/Kara friendship edit, their friendship will always be insta and shallow to me. 

The first scene with Lex and Lena was really nice. And interesting stuff with Lena and Andrea, a way more believable friendship before it turned sour.  But the two got an interesting dynamic and chemistry nevertheless.  

Whoa damn, that mind control thing Lena has been working on has really become a real thing. She was able to control the whole of the DEO, through some green device. Thats powerful.

Edited November 18, 2019 by CabotCove

[nuraman00]

On 11/14/2019 at 5:26 AM, MarkHB said:

I have just posted the schedule for the crossover, with no spoilers of any type, here. The previous post to that one also notes that two of the installments will be followed by a special chat show hosted by Kevin Smith. Feel free to PM me if you want more info about which Arrowverse characters will be in it, but I would expect Kara to be in all the episodes.

Thank you!

On 11/17/2019 at 4:28 PM, ruby24 said:

I don't trust this show to make Lena into a supervillain. I actually would like it if they did, if it really was a parallel with Smallville, where she does embrace her Luther identity after all, but there's just no way they have the guts to do it. They'll redeem her in some lame way.

I don't want it to parallel Smallville.

This is its own show, with its own style, and that was made apparent IMO from the beginning of the series.