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S39: Ponderosa (Possible Spoilers)

LadyChatts

By LadyChatts
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Lamima

Lamima

(edited)

I find it very very interesting that Kellee says to Jack, upon arrival to Ponderosa, that "Dan flipped". So did Dan flip sides and that made her target him....she knew the numbers was with the other side so she thought she could exploit Dan's touchy feels to put a target on him? And Elizabeth and Missy were agreeing with her (to her face) just to get her comfortable in thinking they were voting Dan and not her (which worked, by the way). The clip with Dan touching Kellee's hair on the beach...I have to go re-watch because I am thinking that was from a while back (from the time she did confront Dan about the touching). If so, the show was being disingenuous and misleading. For it's own ratings (to make good TV).  EDIT TO ADD: on rewatch it was definitely after the merge that Dan was trying to put his hands in her hair. AND she also wasn't really in on voting out Dan until it was presented to her by Elizabeth. And then, later, Jamal. So Kellee was genuine in her discomfort. SHow should have booted Dan right then!

Also, when Jamal came to Ponderosa they all discussed how Kellee blew up all their games (Jack's, Jamal's and her own). I'd say she also blew up Janet's game as she will be the next out. And also Dan's as he won't go far (no way can HE win now). And also, now, Elizabeth and Missy's as they do not have a good look right now at all. And she blew up the show, since I now cannot watch this disgusting crap (many other fans might not be able to either). I mean if Dan is this predator then the show should have booted him....if he's not then the show just ruined him...plus all the fans seem to HATE all the players now, except Janet and Janet will likely be voted out next...soooo, Kellee was kind of the atomic bomb of Survivor...IMO. And all for Dean, who she initially wanted to vote out (but she wanted the big cool move of using her idol in a big cool way). I am left scratching my head. 

Edited by Lamima
janeyjay

janeyjay

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

These 3 people are lovely, so kind and positive. Jamal and Jack doing a capella was the icing on the cake. 

Can I watch the rest of the season set at Ponderosa, please? It's so calming, the perfect antidote to watching the impeachment hearings and the frantically stressed, backstabbing Survivors. 

I was just thinking the same thing. I'd be happy with an hour each week at Ponderosa, and just clips of what's happening back in the game.

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ByaNose

ByaNose

I’m very disappointed by the (Non) weight loss of the cast. Even Kellee was unimpressed. I miss the old days when people lost 30lbs. I made that number up but you get my point, right? Of course, it’s still early in the game but they seem to be eating all the time. That said, the foot at Ponderosa looks amazing. I wanted that burger that Kellee was eating. It looked soooooo good. 

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ProfCrash

ProfCrash

10 minutes ago, plurie said:

I'm really surprised at how friendly Kellee was to Missy after what happened in the game. I was expecting her to call out Missy's use of sexual harassment as a game play.

Kellee didn't know what Missy said in confessionals and to Elisabeth at that time. And Kellee was willing to vote out Missy over Dan so I am sure Kellee understood voting her out over Dan.

Kellee accepted Aaron and Elisabeth's apology on Twitter but I have not seen any sign that she accepted Missy's.

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Ellee

Ellee

Have a feeling I might want to see half the episode at Ponderosa and half the show at camp.  

Aaron and Missy were quite a bit different in their Ponderosa clip.  It’s something that I have to remind myself every year. Peoples’ competitive spirit comes out differently in everyone. 

It would be interesting to me to see each and everyone’s personality.  

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ByaNose

ByaNose

(edited)

I keep forgetting that the Survivors have no idea what was said in confessionals and around them. I was expecting Kellee to be mean and bitter toward Missy but she was hugging her. Of course, 9 months later Kellee has better context what was said and done. I didn't know how brother/sister that Aaron and Missy were. I know they worked together but I didn't know how friendly they were. I'm sure that made it easier going to Ponderosa. Also, it was funny that Jack had to introduce himself to them. It's crazy he made jury before the merge. At least, he doesn't have to vote for them to win or not.

Edited by ByaNose
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plurie

plurie

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Kellee didn't know what Missy said in confessionals and to Elisabeth at that time. And Kellee was willing to vote out Missy over Dan so I am sure Kellee understood voting her out over Dan.

Kellee accepted Aaron and Elisabeth's apology on Twitter but I have not seen any sign that she accepted Missy's.

I don't remember how much was said in the next tribal council, and we don't know what Jamal told her, so perhaps she doesn't know everything.

But I think she does know some of this.

I think she can forgive Missy for voting her out quite easily, but I would think that her gaslighting of Janet would be unforgivable.

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Lamima

Lamima

Jamal didn't know. Seems only Kellee, Janet, Dan, Missy,and Elizabeth were involved in the Dan stuff. And really Missy and Elizabeth only admitted to Dan that they had to 'say things to get Janet off their backs' so Dan still believed Janet was the one using the whole thing to gun for him. Kellee was clueless to the convo between Missy and Elizabeth where Missy was told that Kellee was coming for her and Missy told Elizabeth to play up the Dan stuff and let them believe that's who they were voting for. And then you see Elizabeth's THs where she's all like 'I'm not bothered by Dan but..." basically saying she was going to fake it for game purposes. 

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LanceM

LanceM

8 hours ago, plurie said:

I don't remember how much was said in the next tribal council, and we don't know what Jamal told her, so perhaps she doesn't know everything.

But I think she does know some of this.

I think she can forgive Missy for voting her out quite easily, but I would think that her gaslighting of Janet would be unforgivable.

I don't know she was a witness to it first hand as she was sitting on the jury during that tribal. And remember we are only seeing an edited down version of a tc that usually lasts atleast in a hour. Who knows what was said that was never aired. And still she greeted her with smiles and hugs.

ByaNose

ByaNose

Kellee seemed really happy to see Missy. Unfortunately, she didn’t know what happened other then when they had their conversation. Of course, 9 mints later she saw & heard much more. I suspect she would have been much more guarded when Aaron & Missy showed.
It is weird because I was expecting Ponderosa to the big reveal but they're in an alternate universe. Either it wasn’t discussed at all or it was edited out. Very odd to see Ponderosa play out during real time but no one had all the information. Very odd to watch. 

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Melina22

Melina22

Ponderosa is an absolute lovefest this season. I love it! I credit a lot of it to Jack's wonderful, positive energy. 

I loved Missy's comment about how great it was to meet the "human" version of everybody. 

I was a little confused by the extreme closeness between Aaron and Missy. Someone said something about their having a history. Did they mean just in the game? 

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ProfCrash

ProfCrash

8 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I would love to know if Dan-gate was discussed at all at Ponderosa. If so, what was said and cut out?!

I don't think it was. When you look at how Kellee greeted Missy and Elisabeth and how much time Kellee spent with Elisabeth, it seems as if it was a non-issue. Then again, Kellee had no clue that Missy and Elisabeth lied to Janet or played things up the way that they did. All of that was revealed on the show and I think there has been fall out based on what people saw. I think Aaron's apology gets right to the heart of that issue.

Pure speculation on my part.

1) Kellee was legitimately annoyed/unhappy with Dan. She did not like how he was touching her. She asked him to stop. She told him repeatedly to stop. Dan didn't stop.

2) We saw conversations with Missy, Elisabeth, and Noura where they were commenting on Dan's touching. They thought it was over the top but were not as put off by it as Kellee.

3) We saw a confessional with Lauren where she said she told Dan to stop and Dan stopped so she didn't have an issue with Dan. That tells us that she did have an issue at some point, she told him to stop, but the problem went away when she told him to stop.

4) All of the women who mentioned it seemed to be fine with Dan staying in the game because they knew nothing else could happen. Kellee was fine with keeping Dan because she thought Janet could control Dan and the touching. I also think that Kellee and Missy, the two who were most uncomfortable, knew that the cameras would prevent Dan from doing anything but touching.

This makes me think that the touching was a problem and Production should have stepped in. When people are saying that they are ok because someone will control another person or that they are counting on the cameras to prevent something "worse" from happening, the problem has gone too far.

That said, Kellee was fine keeping Dan in the game and voting out Missy. I think she might have been confused that the vote switched but I think she would see it as game play and not realize that it switched because Elisabeth lied to Janet. I think that the weaponizing of the harassment was not something known by everyone until the episode aired.

So I strongly believe that this was not something discussed at camp or Ponderosa during the time that it all happened. The larger issue came to light when the episode aired. I think Production was caught off guard because they confused the game element with the real world and assumed that since it was not a huge issue in the game, it would not be a big deal when it aired.

I also think that it says something that Kellee has accepted Elisabeth and Aaron's apology but not Missy's.

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ByaNose

ByaNose

38 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't think it was. When you look at how Kellee greeted Missy and Elisabeth and how much time Kellee spent with Elisabeth, it seems as if it was a non-issue. Then again, Kellee had no clue that Missy and Elisabeth lied to Janet or played things up the way that they did. All of that was revealed on the show and I think there has been fall out based on what people saw. I think Aaron's apology gets right to the heart of that issue.

Pure speculation on my part.

1) Kellee was legitimately annoyed/unhappy with Dan. She did not like how he was touching her. She asked him to stop. She told him repeatedly to stop. Dan didn't stop.

2) We saw conversations with Missy, Elisabeth, and Noura where they were commenting on Dan's touching. They thought it was over the top but were not as put off by it as Kellee.

3) We saw a confessional with Lauren where she said she told Dan to stop and Dan stopped so she didn't have an issue with Dan. That tells us that she did have an issue at some point, she told him to stop, but the problem went away when she told him to stop.

4) All of the women who mentioned it seemed to be fine with Dan staying in the game because they knew nothing else could happen. Kellee was fine with keeping Dan because she thought Janet could control Dan and the touching. I also think that Kellee and Missy, the two who were most uncomfortable, knew that the cameras would prevent Dan from doing anything but touching.

This makes me think that the touching was a problem and Production should have stepped in. When people are saying that they are ok because someone will control another person or that they are counting on the cameras to prevent something "worse" from happening, the problem has gone too far.

That said, Kellee was fine keeping Dan in the game and voting out Missy. I think she might have been confused that the vote switched but I think she would see it as game play and not realize that it switched because Elisabeth lied to Janet. I think that the weaponizing of the harassment was not something known by everyone until the episode aired.

So I strongly believe that this was not something discussed at camp or Ponderosa during the time that it all happened. The larger issue came to light when the episode aired. I think Production was caught off guard because they confused the game element with the real world and assumed that since it was not a huge issue in the game, it would not be a big deal when it aired.

I also think that it says something that Kellee has accepted Elisabeth and Aaron's apology but not Missy's.

This was very well thought out and well written. It's everything I wanted to say but couldn't.

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Bryce Lynch

Bryce Lynch

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't think it was. When you look at how Kellee greeted Missy and Elisabeth and how much time Kellee spent with Elisabeth, it seems as if it was a non-issue. Then again, Kellee had no clue that Missy and Elisabeth lied to Janet or played things up the way that they did. All of that was revealed on the show and I think there has been fall out based on what people saw. I think Aaron's apology gets right to the heart of that issue.

Pure speculation on my part.

1) Kellee was legitimately annoyed/unhappy with Dan. She did not like how he was touching her. She asked him to stop. She told him repeatedly to stop. Dan didn't stop.

2) We saw conversations with Missy, Elisabeth, and Noura where they were commenting on Dan's touching. They thought it was over the top but were not as put off by it as Kellee.

3) We saw a confessional with Lauren where she said she told Dan to stop and Dan stopped so she didn't have an issue with Dan. That tells us that she did have an issue at some point, she told him to stop, but the problem went away when she told him to stop.

4) All of the women who mentioned it seemed to be fine with Dan staying in the game because they knew nothing else could happen. Kellee was fine with keeping Dan because she thought Janet could control Dan and the touching. I also think that Kellee and Missy, the two who were most uncomfortable, knew that the cameras would prevent Dan from doing anything but touching.

This makes me think that the touching was a problem and Production should have stepped in. When people are saying that they are ok because someone will control another person or that they are counting on the cameras to prevent something "worse" from happening, the problem has gone too far.

That said, Kellee was fine keeping Dan in the game and voting out Missy. I think she might have been confused that the vote switched but I think she would see it as game play and not realize that it switched because Elisabeth lied to Janet. I think that the weaponizing of the harassment was not something known by everyone until the episode aired.

So I strongly believe that this was not something discussed at camp or Ponderosa during the time that it all happened. The larger issue came to light when the episode aired. I think Production was caught off guard because they confused the game element with the real world and assumed that since it was not a huge issue in the game, it would not be a big deal when it aired.

I also think that it says something that Kellee has accepted Elisabeth and Aaron's apology but not Missy's.

I tend to think the opposite.   The women all seemed to feel they were able to control the situation and half voted to keep Dan in the game, and, other than Janet, who had been gaslighted, the rest (including Kellee) seemed OK with keeping him around, if it helped their games.

It is an extraordinary thing for production to step in and eject a player.  Has it ever happened?  I remember the tribe basically voting out Brandon Hantz at Probst direction, but he seemed to want out, and there was a vote.  Varner went out in a similar manner after outing Zeke.  But, I don't recall production ever stepping in and saying, "You are being kicked out for your behavior."

Survivor is not supposed to be a simulation of a typical, American workplace.  It is supposed to be a simulation of  18 or 20 people being stranded on an island and forming their own society and rules and governing themselves. 

The women in the tribe outnumbered the men 8 to 5 when the Kellee vote happened.  They had MORE direct power than women generally have to deal with a sexual harasser and they chose to keep him in the game.  

Kellee also apparently declined to pursue a formal complaint that could have gotten Dan ejected, and was originally planning to work with him.   

I think women should be empowered to stop harassers, and in this case I believe they were so empowered.  But, they chose not to use this power to rid themselves of Dan.  

Given that choice, I don't think TPTB necessarily should have swooped in to "rescue" the women from an inappropriate toucher who they chose to keep around.  

To the extent this incident at all represents what goes on in the real world, it shows that women need to stand up and stand together against harassment. 

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Hanahope

Hanahope

19 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Survivor is not supposed to be a simulation of a typical, American workplace.  It is supposed to be a simulation of  18 or 20 people being stranded on an island and forming their own society and rules and governing themselves. 

The women in the tribe outnumbered the men 8 to 5 when the Kellee vote happened.  They had MORE direct power than women generally have to deal with a sexual harasser and they chose to keep him in the game.  

Kellee also apparently declined to pursue a formal complaint that could have gotten Dan ejected, and was originally planning to work with him.   

I think women should be empowered to stop harassers, and in this case I believe they were so empowered.  But, they chose not to use this power to rid themselves of Dan.  

Given that choice, I don't think TPTB necessarily should have swooped in to "rescue" the women from an inappropriate toucher who they chose to keep around.  

No, its not a simulation of being stranded on an island and creating a society.  Its a game for $1 million dollars.  and that fact alone colors the entirety of their decision to keep Dan. 

Kelley only chose not to ask TPTB to boot Dan because she was afraid of how it would backlash against her and her trying to win.  She was afraid that the rest of the tribe would go against her, either afraid that with her story of being a victim to Dan she'd appear more sympathetic and 'win votes', or because she'd be seen as a hero for standing up to Dan and 'win votes', or because they wanted to take Dan themselves to the end and easily beat him.

That why everyone is "ok" with keeping Dan.  Not because they want to work with him, but because they all think they will be able to beat him for that million because everyone else thinks/knows he's a harrasser.  Dan is only "ok" to keep because he's a goat that no one will vote for because he's a terrible person.

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Bryce Lynch

Bryce Lynch

4 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

No, its not a simulation of being stranded on an island and creating a society.  Its a game for $1 million dollars.  and that fact alone colors the entirety of their decision to keep Dan. 

Kelley only chose not to ask TPTB to boot Dan because she was afraid of how it would backlash against her and her trying to win.  She was afraid that the rest of the tribe would go against her, either afraid that with her story of being a victim to Dan she'd appear more sympathetic and 'win votes', or because she'd be seen as a hero for standing up to Dan and 'win votes', or because they wanted to take Dan themselves to the end and easily beat him.

That why everyone is "ok" with keeping Dan.  Not because they want to work with him, but because they all think they will be able to beat him for that million because everyone else thinks/knows he's a harrasser.  Dan is only "ok" to keep because he's a goat that no one will vote for because he's a terrible person.

Survivor absolutely is supposed to be a loose simulation of being stranded on a deserted island and forming a society.  People do stuff on nearly every episode that would get them fired from nearly any job in the real world.  

Before talking with Missy, Kellee wanted to vote out Missy and keep Dan, because she thought Missy was a bigger threat.  She was making a strategic decision to try to increase her chances of winning by getting Missy out.   

There is zero indication that Kellee feared backlash if she requested Dan be removed.  

I originally thought that Dan was being kept around as a goat, but over the last couple of episodes, it seems more like people are keeping him as an ally and a vote.   

But, whether the women kept Dan around as an ally or as a goat, they chose to put a rather marginal possible advantage in the game over fighting inappropriate touching and sexual harassment.  IMO, that is on them (and any men who knew) not on TPTB.  

Kellee could have asked for his removal, which likely would have been done without the other players being told why.  She didn't.

The members of the tribe, including 8 women and 5 men, could have voted him out.  They didn't.   

Kellee also could have idol'ed him out, but she felt hoarding idols was more important than making sure Feely Dan went home.   

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