Tori and Bobby: Whine Time!

[Heathen]

I saw spoiler activity on this thread, and I thought for sure Tori had been fecundated yet again. 

[BitterApple]

Tori's kids are adorable.

[cereality]

5 yrs out of college for Bobby, 5 yrs married - so age 27 and damn he’s aged. He’s not aging as badly as Chad but he’s close. Granted some of it is that even 5 yrs ago it was clear he had the kind of hairline that’d recede. But I’m guessing having 4 kids in 5 yrs on an office manager’s salary (I know Kelton has given him a fancier title but essentially that’s what he is) is the source of some stress. But hey their precious family has just begun per their anniversary post - so bring on another 5 kids.

At least they both appear content with their lives, mind blowing as it would be for normal 26-27 yr olds to have 4 kids under 4. None of Carlin/Evan/Whit’s woohoo party party, acting like they missed out on their 20s. These two seem wired for a life where dad comes home from work and it’s all about dinner, baths, bible, and bed. Honestly Bobby never seemed like he liked Tori that much when they were dating - just needed a godly wife as he was graduating Christian college and needed sex and kids asap, any other godly woman would’ve fit the bill. I feel like the slog and exhaustion of kids is what keeps them going bc how much time is there to interact with each other - so the kids give him purpose/happiness. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, cereality said:

5 yrs out of college for Bobby, 5 yrs married - so age 27 and damn he’s aged. He’s not aging as badly as Chad but he’s close. Granted some of it is that even 5 yrs ago it was clear he had the kind of hairline that’d recede. But I’m guessing having 4 kids in 5 yrs on an office manager’s salary (I know Kelton has given him a fancier title but essentially that’s what he is) is the source of some stress. But hey their precious family has just begun per their anniversary post - so bring on another 5 kids.

At least they both appear content with their lives, mind blowing as it would be for normal 26-27 yr olds to have 4 kids under 4. None of Carlin/Evan/Whit’s woohoo party party, acting like they missed out on their 20s. These two seem wired for a life where dad comes home from work and it’s all about dinner, baths, bible, and bed. Honestly Bobby never seemed like he liked Tori that much when they were dating - just needed a godly wife as he was graduating Christian college and needed sex and kids asap, any other godly woman would’ve fit the bill. I feel like the slog and exhaustion of kids is what keeps them going bc how much time is there to interact with each other - so the kids give him purpose/happiness. 

I often wonder if Bobby wishes he looked around more then just picked Tori. He never seemed like he was ever that into her and after marriage working with Kelton seemed to be the only bright spot in his life. It's probably Kelton and the kids now. He might actually be happy had he done that. 

[ozziemom]

Tori seems to have grown up in a way that Carlin hasn’t. Back on the TV show Tori was as loud and obnoxious as Carlin but the little we see of her now, she’s more like Erin or Michael. Maybe she really hated the attention being on her? And now she & Bobby have settled into a life that suits them both together.

[Heathen]

9 hours ago, cereality said:

5 yrs out of college for Bobby, 5 yrs married - so age 27 and damn he’s aged. He’s not aging as badly as Chad but he’s close. Granted some of it is that even 5 yrs ago it was clear he had the kind of hairline that’d recede. But I’m guessing having 4 kids in 5 yrs on an office manager’s salary (I know Kelton has given him a fancier title but essentially that’s what he is) is the source of some stress. But hey their precious family has just begun per their anniversary post - so bring on another 5 kids.

At least they both appear content with their lives, mind blowing as it would be for normal 26-27 yr olds to have 4 kids under 4. None of Carlin/Evan/Whit’s woohoo party party, acting like they missed out on their 20s. These two seem wired for a life where dad comes home from work and it’s all about dinner, baths, bible, and bed. Honestly Bobby never seemed like he liked Tori that much when they were dating - just needed a godly wife as he was graduating Christian college and needed sex and kids asap, any other godly woman would’ve fit the bill. I feel like the slog and exhaustion of kids is what keeps them going bc how much time is there to interact with each other - so the kids give him purpose/happiness. 

I think some of Bobby's aging is his long, thin face. He looks like Randy Travis to me, and RT looked older even when he was in his twenties. 

But yeah, four kids in less than four years would do me in. 

[BitterApple]

Bobby looked like he was regretting his life choices not too long ago, so either Tori settled down or he's resigned himself to making the best of things. 

I'm a little surprised he's onboard with "leaving it up to the Lord" when it comes to family size, though. By all appearances, he grew up comfortably. Does he really want to go the Chad and Erin route where he's stacking kids up in a starter home like cord wood? Kelton did him a solid by giving him a job, so as long as Tennessee Standard stays booming, he'll at least have a steady paycheck. 

[cereality]

Agreed as opposed to Chad he is better off in that he’ll have a steady paycheck, but the reality is that Kelton can’t (or won’t) pay his office manager 100-200k just bc that’s how his best friend was accustomed to living. By the looks of the Smiths’ home, it is pretty clear that he grew up with a dad making six figures+ which goes pretty far with only 3 kids. His sister has even mentioned before that their dad is a great investor and taught her - yet I’m pretty sure Bobby isn’t in a situation where he’s got a fully funded corporate 401k, nor in a situation where he can be like - eh we have 5k in savings just sitting around at yr end, let’s throw that in the S&P. His situation is 4 kids in a 3 bedroom house with more kids coming most likely.

Wonder if he regrets that his wife is the fertile myrtle of the Bates; easier to talk the talk of - as many as god gives us - when your wife has high risk pregnancies or can’t get pregnant so in your heart of hearts you know you’ll max out at 0-6 kids. I don’t think we’ve heard that Tori even has the clotting issues of her sisters (maybe?), doesn’t seem like getting to 10 kids will be any problem.

I have to imagine in his private moments he does regret rushing to marry Tori. I mean thankfully for him he loves dad life + Tori has calmed down now that she’s not around Carlin (bc when he was courting he appeared to actively dislike her - remember the engagement, he looked like he wanted to drive away and his parents would’ve been like yep let’s go we’ll drive you). But at the end of the day she is still dumb and uneducated, what is there really to talk about besides who needs a diaper or church? This isn’t a girl who even knows what an investment is. It was super obvious to everyone (including his parents - who still appear not to like Tori nor their life and in turn we’ve seen Tori just pretends they’re not there) that he was rushing in bc omg SEX, WIFE. He just needed to marry, bestie Kelton had a godly girl w 87 sisters, great go w one of them and live life with bestie Kelton. Don’t think he calculated that he’s w Kelton from 9-5, 5-9 daily + weekends is gonna be with the wife not Kelton who has his own family, extended family etc.

[3 is enough]

Tori does have the clotting issue. It wasn't apparent until her second pregnancy.

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Tori does have the clotting issue. It wasn't apparent until her second pregnancy.

It hasn't slowed her rate of reproducing, though. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Heathen

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Heathen said:

It hasn't slowed her rate of reproducing, though. 

Didn't stop Erin either, until she had other health issues. Tori will probably be pregnant by the end of the year, if she isn't already. 🙄

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

Agreed as opposed to Chad he is better off in that he’ll have a steady paycheck, but the reality is that Kelton can’t (or won’t) pay his office manager 100-200k just bc that’s how his best friend was accustomed to living. By the looks of the Smiths’ home, it is pretty clear that he grew up with a dad making six figures+ which goes pretty far with only 3 kids. His sister has even mentioned before that their dad is a great investor and taught her - yet I’m pretty sure Bobby isn’t in a situation where he’s got a fully funded corporate 401k, nor in a situation where he can be like - eh we have 5k in savings just sitting around at yr end, let’s throw that in the S&P. His situation is 4 kids in a 3 bedroom house with more kids coming most likely.

Wonder if he regrets that his wife is the fertile myrtle of the Bates; easier to talk the talk of - as many as god gives us - when your wife has high risk pregnancies or can’t get pregnant so in your heart of hearts you know you’ll max out at 0-6 kids. I don’t think we’ve heard that Tori even has the clotting issues of her sisters (maybe?), doesn’t seem like getting to 10 kids will be any problem.

I have to imagine in his private moments he does regret rushing to marry Tori. I mean thankfully for him he loves dad life + Tori has calmed down now that she’s not around Carlin (bc when he was courting he appeared to actively dislike her - remember the engagement, he looked like he wanted to drive away and his parents would’ve been like yep let’s go we’ll drive you). But at the end of the day she is still dumb and uneducated, what is there really to talk about besides who needs a diaper or church? This isn’t a girl who even knows what an investment is. It was super obvious to everyone (including his parents - who still appear not to like Tori nor their life and in turn we’ve seen Tori just pretends they’re not there) that he was rushing in bc omg SEX, WIFE. He just needed to marry, bestie Kelton had a godly girl w 87 sisters, great go w one of them and live life with bestie Kelton. Don’t think he calculated that he’s w Kelton from 9-5, 5-9 daily + weekends is gonna be with the wife not Kelton who has his own family, extended family etc.

I didn't really follow the Bateses when the Smiths were courting. Was Tori as over-the-top, attention-whoring, irritating as Carlin? What changed besides kids? 

I don't understand why Bobby doesn't go the vocational route like Kelton. It would give him something else in common with Kelton, plus his office pay isn't going to support 16 kids, or however many Tori ends up having. Unless Kelton overpays him to keep the Smith kids from living in Bates-style poverty. 

11 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Didn't stop Erin either, until she had other health issues. Tori will probably be pregnant by the end of the year, if she isn't already. 🙄

It did stop Erin. She had three miscarriages in short order before Carson. 🙄

[Salacious Kitty]

Tori was horrible when they were courting. The thing I remember most was her clamoring for the ring. Bobby's parents seemed particularly irritated.

[ozziemom]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Tori was horrible when they were courting. The thing I remember most was her clamoring for the ring. Bobby's parents seemed particularly irritated.

Wasn’t KJ just as bad about the ring? It was annoying. Tori and Carlin always seemed to be paired up on the couch for TV questions on BUB. Both loud and totally dumb acting, like Carlin is now, just with Evan instead of Tori.

[cereality]

1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

Wasn’t KJ just as bad about the ring? It was annoying. Tori and Carlin always seemed to be paired up on the couch for TV questions on BUB. Both loud and totally dumb acting, like Carlin is now, just with Evan instead of Tori.

KJ was awful about the ring and even moreso about him moving to Rocky Top. I think he had considered having Tori move down to Fla. or he considered moved to Tenn. after they were married - which was a whole 7 months after his graduation or 3 mos after engagement. So it's not like he was talking about being long distance for 5 more yrs. Kelly went on and on about having him move to Tenn RIGHT AWAY after graduation - I mean she needed this $hit locked down ASAP. And then was like oh you're gonna be at our house all the time anyway, you don't need an apt [lest he or his parents say no I need to build up my savings for a few months pre marriage so I can't move], we have a sweet friend from church with a trailer. I mean the trailer stood in the middle of some field, pitch black to get to after dark bc it wasn't parked at a house or RV park, but Kelly and Tori "convinced/bullied" Bobby into saying yep this is great. I mean Bobby at that point was only thinking with his pants.

When his parents showed up to move him in they looked pissed. Like turned off by their son's decision in that - we didn't raise you to marry a country hick and go live in a trailer. And even when they visited G/K's home they looked like they couldn't wait to leave with feral Jeb/Jud/grandkids running all over, the general sty of a house that G/K keep etc. They were similarly displeased at the wedding - esp when Tori stopped the ceremony for like 5 min bc she got the giggles when saying the vows??! Will never forget after the ceremony they asked his parents how they felt or something and Bobby's dad goes "well he got hitched." It was the type of emotion that you have when you go to a coworker's wedding out of obligation and you see it as a - well it's a night out and dinner/cake; most certainly is NOT the reaction that people have when their oldest child gets married.

But his parents have never been impressed with her or her family. For the engagement, Bobby proposed someplace in the NC mountains, like a 2-3 hr drive away. He made the mistake of having his parents ride in the car with him and Tori, having made obvious to Tori that this was the engagement trip. Kid you not she acted like a 5 yr old the entire day - "are you gonna propose now" "now?" "now?" "where is the ring" "is it in this pocket" "is it in this jacket?" I mean at one point his dad sarcastically said something like "do you get the concept of - need to know?" and it went over dumb Tori's head and she didn't shut up. And uh Tori did you WANT him to propose when he stopped to pump gas on the way into the mountains or while parking the car to hike up the mountain or when chowing down on a sandwich?

As with all engagements, Kelly and groom's mom went to "decorate" the proposal spot and Bobby's mom was trying to figure out where to hide the ring so that when Bobby arrived, he'd find it ASAP - poor woman looked like she wanted to throw the ring over the scenic mountain overlook so he couldn't propose. And again post engagement they asked the parents how they felt and again dad says something like - "well it's not every family he could marry into and get 20 inlaws" - lol. Yeah they don't like her. And even now, in the 1-2 visits we've seen, Tori basically doesn't speak to them, they basically stay out of Bobby and Tori's way, frankly Bobby just hangs with Tori - not even including his parents or encouraging the grandkids to go to his parents, and they basically try to engage their grandkids here or there.

[ozziemom]

49 minutes ago, cereality said:

KJ was awful about the ring and even moreso about him moving to Rocky Top. I think he had considered having Tori move down to Fla. or he considered moved to Tenn. after they were married - which was a whole 7 months after his graduation or 3 mos after engagement. So it's not like he was talking about being long distance for 5 more yrs. Kelly went on and on about having him move to Tenn RIGHT AWAY after graduation - I mean she needed this $hit locked down ASAP. And then was like oh you're gonna be at our house all the time anyway, you don't need an apt [lest he or his parents say no I need to build up my savings for a few months pre marriage so I can't move], we have a sweet friend from church with a trailer. I mean the trailer stood in the middle of some field, pitch black to get to after dark bc it wasn't parked at a house or RV park, but Kelly and Tori "convinced/bullied" Bobby into saying yep this is great. I mean Bobby at that point was only thinking with his pants.

When his parents showed up to move him in they looked pissed. Like turned off by their son's decision in that - we didn't raise you to marry a country hick and go live in a trailer. And even when they visited G/K's home they looked like they couldn't wait to leave with feral Jeb/Jud/grandkids running all over, the general sty of a house that G/K keep etc. They were similarly displeased at the wedding - esp when Tori stopped the ceremony for like 5 min bc she got the giggles when saying the vows??! Will never forget after the ceremony they asked his parents how they felt or something and Bobby's dad goes "well he got hitched." It was the type of emotion that you have when you go to a coworker's wedding out of obligation and you see it as a - well it's a night out and dinner/cake; most certainly is NOT the reaction that people have when their oldest child gets married.

But his parents have never been impressed with her or her family. For the engagement, Bobby proposed someplace in the NC mountains, like a 2-3 hr drive away. He made the mistake of having his parents ride in the car with him and Tori, having made obvious to Tori that this was the engagement trip. Kid you not she acted like a 5 yr old the entire day - "are you gonna propose now" "now?" "now?" "where is the ring" "is it in this pocket" "is it in this jacket?" I mean at one point his dad sarcastically said something like "do you get the concept of - need to know?" and it went over dumb Tori's head and she didn't shut up. And uh Tori did you WANT him to propose when he stopped to pump gas on the way into the mountains or while parking the car to hike up the mountain or when chowing down on a sandwich?

As with all engagements, Kelly and groom's mom went to "decorate" the proposal spot and Bobby's mom was trying to figure out where to hide the ring so that when Bobby arrived, he'd find it ASAP - poor woman looked like she wanted to throw the ring over the scenic mountain overlook so he couldn't propose. And again post engagement they asked the parents how they felt and again dad says something like - "well it's not every family he could marry into and get 20 inlaws" - lol. Yeah they don't like her. And even now, in the 1-2 visits we've seen, Tori basically doesn't speak to them, they basically stay out of Bobby and Tori's way, frankly Bobby just hangs with Tori - not even including his parents or encouraging the grandkids to go to his parents, and they basically try to engage their grandkids here or there.

Oh I had forgotten all that! That was so ridiculous, KJ at her most obnoxious.

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, cereality said:

KJ was awful about the ring and even moreso about him moving to Rocky Top. I think he had considered having Tori move down to Fla. or he considered moved to Tenn. after they were married - which was a whole 7 months after his graduation or 3 mos after engagement. So it's not like he was talking about being long distance for 5 more yrs. Kelly went on and on about having him move to Tenn RIGHT AWAY after graduation - I mean she needed this $hit locked down ASAP. And then was like oh you're gonna be at our house all the time anyway, you don't need an apt [lest he or his parents say no I need to build up my savings for a few months pre marriage so I can't move], we have a sweet friend from church with a trailer. I mean the trailer stood in the middle of some field, pitch black to get to after dark bc it wasn't parked at a house or RV park, but Kelly and Tori "convinced/bullied" Bobby into saying yep this is great. I mean Bobby at that point was only thinking with his pants.

When his parents showed up to move him in they looked pissed. Like turned off by their son's decision in that - we didn't raise you to marry a country hick and go live in a trailer. And even when they visited G/K's home they looked like they couldn't wait to leave with feral Jeb/Jud/grandkids running all over, the general sty of a house that G/K keep etc. They were similarly displeased at the wedding - esp when Tori stopped the ceremony for like 5 min bc she got the giggles when saying the vows??! Will never forget after the ceremony they asked his parents how they felt or something and Bobby's dad goes "well he got hitched." It was the type of emotion that you have when you go to a coworker's wedding out of obligation and you see it as a - well it's a night out and dinner/cake; most certainly is NOT the reaction that people have when their oldest child gets married.

But his parents have never been impressed with her or her family. For the engagement, Bobby proposed someplace in the NC mountains, like a 2-3 hr drive away. He made the mistake of having his parents ride in the car with him and Tori, having made obvious to Tori that this was the engagement trip. Kid you not she acted like a 5 yr old the entire day - "are you gonna propose now" "now?" "now?" "where is the ring" "is it in this pocket" "is it in this jacket?" I mean at one point his dad sarcastically said something like "do you get the concept of - need to know?" and it went over dumb Tori's head and she didn't shut up. And uh Tori did you WANT him to propose when he stopped to pump gas on the way into the mountains or while parking the car to hike up the mountain or when chowing down on a sandwich?

As with all engagements, Kelly and groom's mom went to "decorate" the proposal spot and Bobby's mom was trying to figure out where to hide the ring so that when Bobby arrived, he'd find it ASAP - poor woman looked like she wanted to throw the ring over the scenic mountain overlook so he couldn't propose. And again post engagement they asked the parents how they felt and again dad says something like - "well it's not every family he could marry into and get 20 inlaws" - lol. Yeah they don't like her. And even now, in the 1-2 visits we've seen, Tori basically doesn't speak to them, they basically stay out of Bobby and Tori's way, frankly Bobby just hangs with Tori - not even including his parents or encouraging the grandkids to go to his parents, and they basically try to engage their grandkids here or there.

That's a damn shame. The Smith grandparents are those kids' only chance to see how normal people live. 

Is the Kelly/Gil house really that bad? Like "white socks instantaneously turn brown" bad? Now I need to go clean something. 

[Meow Mix]

Kelly was obnoxious with every potential son in law demanding to know when they were going to lock it down.  I would have been mortified if my mother did that.  She made her daughters look like used cars she was trying to get off the lot before the wheels fell off or something.  She started it with Michael really nagging Brandon to death.  

As for Tori, the biggest problem I had with her was her attitude at her shower.  She clearly didn't want the big shower that Kelly did, but instead of being an adult about it and either sucking it up or standing up to her mother to get what she wanted, she behaved horribly.  She showed up late, then sat there with a scowl on her face and refused to participate.  She had to open gifts and she just looked at each one and tossed it aside while Bobby tried to be gracious.  He should have called it off right there.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

 

As for Tori, the biggest problem I had with her was her attitude at her shower.  She clearly didn't want the big shower that Kelly did, but instead of being an adult about it and either sucking it up or standing up to her mother to get what she wanted, she behaved horribly.  She showed up late, then sat there with a scowl on her face and refused to participate.  She had to open gifts and she just looked at each one and tossed it aside while Bobby tried to be gracious.  He should have called it off right there.

Tori was absolutely horrid. I get that not all women are into the bridal circus, but showers are de rigueur. She could've sucked it up to make her mother happy, not to mention she's the one benefitting at the end of the day. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Kelly was obnoxious with every potential son in law demanding to know when they were going to lock it down.  I would have been mortified if my mother did that.  She made her daughters look like used cars she was trying to get off the lot before the wheels fell off or something.  She started it with Michael really nagging Brandon to death.  

Yeah, she was really horrible nagging Brandon too. Even though they were courting and Brandon had to wait first because of some class he was taking in Texas and after that he wanted to wait a little longer to save up some money for marriage. Kelly of course had no understanding of that. 

[cereality]

I actually have no recollection of their wedding shower, but I do remember Tori's awful behavior in wedding planning and at the wedding itself. But if she behaved that way at the shower too, damn she went out of her way to alienate her MIL, who I imagine was attending, starting day one.

She was ATROCIOUS re wedding planning. They met with the aunt who makes all their cakes [I think for free as a wedding present] and the aunt was asking questions about what they liked and Tori was basically like IDGAF, who cares, this is stupid - like a 4 yr old brat. Way to be gracious to this aunt who is doing the hard work to gift you a cake for free that your cheapskate daddy would otherwise have to pay $500+. Seriously how hard is it to say - we like vanilla or chocolate, we like fruit in a cake or no fruit, flowers/no flowers for decor - just to give some ideas. It's even ok if you have no idea but politely just say - we don't know what we want, what do you recommend/what's popular and let the aunt ask questions to figure out what you'd like.

And then at the wedding reception, she literally said to Bobby every 5 seconds - can we go, ok let's go, are you ready, let's go, let's go, let's go, are you ready, let's get out of here. At one point she was tugging on his suit sleeve like a toddler. I though the virgin GROOM was supposed to be the horny one needing to get it on RIGHT NOW, while the bride was supposed to be more discrete and slow it down so guests wouldn't think OMG they're leaving ASAP bc SEX. IIRC their reception was just cake/punch not a meal, so as soon as the cake was cut, it was - obligation over. Meanwhile Bobby was the one trying to be gracious, shake some hands and greet as many guests as possible. It's like you're 21-22, not a toddler, do you really not understand that Bobby's family and school friends have flown from Fla, your own grandparents had to haul ass from the Carolinas, the gracious thing would be to spend a few minutes with each of them??

Her bratty behavior is the product of - G&K's brainwashing OMG if you have a vag of course you MUST DREAM about your wedding day [I mean Alyssa smiles proudly already when her girls play wedding]. Like NO not every woman cares about weddings. Yet of course they are allowed to have no personality and no original thoughts. In the real world Tori and Bobby would've been the couple that would've just done a destination wedding - even on the beach in Fla - where she'd just buy a dress and otherwise they'd pick a wedding package offered by a hotel and whatever flowers/cakes/etc. went with that and be done.

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Tori was absolutely horrid. I get that not all women are into the bridal circus, but showers are de rigueur. She could've sucked it up to make her mother happy, not to mention she's the one benefitting at the end of the day. 

I have to say, Eff Kelly. It's not Tori's or anyone else's job to make Kelly happy, not to mention Kelly and her idiot husband pimped out their children for cash and fame. Kelly should have been working to make Tori happy. 

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, Heathen said:

I have to say, Eff Kelly. It's not Tori's or anyone else's job to make Kelly happy, not to mention Kelly and her idiot husband pimped out their children for cash and fame. Kelly should have been working to make Tori happy. 

I agree. I hated how Tori behaved but if she didn't want a shower or any of the wedding stuff they should have respected Tori's wishes. Also, my parents deserved it by being great parents and sucking it up for me on things they didn't want to do but did so for me as I did for them. Kelly has never done anything to deserve any of her kids sucking it up for. She's been a horrible mother all there lives making her daughters especially Michael do all of the work of raising, educating, and taking care of Kelly's kids. They cooked the meals, did the laundry all while Kelly did absolutely nothing. Everything in Kelly's live as been to do what Kelly wants and to make her happy. She didn't want to raise her kids. So she didn't.  She didn't want to cook or clean she didn't. She didn't want to educate her kids. She didn't. She wanted her daughters to dress a certain way. They did. She wanted them to court and marry anyone who came by. They did. Tori wanted to wait until she graduated college to marry. Kelly didn't and got her way. Katie wanted to be a nurse. She suddenly changed her mind. When Alyssa had surgery Kelly didn't stick around to help at all. When any of her children had their first grandchild, again she didn't stick around to help. She didn't even return home when her two youngest sons set their laundry room on fire, nor did she even bother to make sure they were properly looked after. Kelly takes advantage of Chad's skill for free work. Kelly uses her sisters for wedding cakes and flowers. She used and still uses Michael to do whatever Kelly wants. When has Kelly ever sucked it up for any of her kids? 

 

[Meow Mix]

@andromeda331I agree completely.  My problem with Tori's behavior was that other people got hurt or were made uncomfortable in the process.  I couldn't care less how Kelly felt about any of this, but my guess is that she was totally oblivious as usual.  

[zenme]

With 5 million kids and counting, teaching then manners and how to be decent human beings is, I guess, asking too much. Why have that many if you’re not gonna raise them properly?