S04.E02: The Pool: Part Two

[Blakeston]

46 minutes ago, debraran said:

That's why my gut wants her to be Nicky's daughter, estranged from a previous early relationship. Who knows what producers wants but way too much addiction episodes. Jack and Nicky and Kevin and Cassie and Kate if food can be considered an addiction (and it is usually)

And also William and his NA group!

It's funny, until about 10 years ago it was somewhat rare to see addiction explored in depth on TV, and now it seems like it's almost obligatory for at least one character per show to have addiction issues. Recovery - particularly whether someone will stay on the wagon or not - seems to make for good drama (or at least writers think it does).

I've been thinking about the Kate storyline in this episode. As much as I was glad to see her make the best of the situation by kissing that boy, she almost certainly was setting herself up to be mocked for the entire school year, if not longer. "Oh my god, can you believe Kate actually kissed that dorky boy?!?!" would have been a constant refrain.

Of course, she would have been mocked relentlessly, too, if she had run off crying or something. It was a no-win situation.

I would have hoped that after years of mockery from her peers, she would be better at protecting herself. She never should have fallen for any of that. And Randall should have known better than to try to rap - he should have just said, "I don't know that song too well." But I guess realistically, some kids want so badly to succeed socially that they'll take huge risks on the off chance that they'll pay off.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:38 PM, ams1001 said:

In the short term, at least, it's easy to blow off plans when the only one missing out is yourself. That's why a lot of advice on how to exercise more suggests working out with a friend. You're less likely to give in to the temptation of your couch, or an extra hour in your nice comfy bed, when you know someone is waiting for you at the gym. (Or your paycheck may depend on it...)

The top 5 actors earn $4.5 million per season (I know their agents, etc., get a cut and of course there are hefty taxes.) If an actor with a great salary is really motivated to lose weight, for a few hundred thousand dollars per year, she could hire life coaches/personal trainers to be by her side round-the-clock as well as a personal chef to make and serve her the most delicious and appropriate food on whatever schedule a nutritionist thinks would be best for her. In fact, if she doesn't care about privacy, many trainers/chefs would be eager to do it for a lot less just for the publicity. NBC might be willing to cover the cost to keep her healthy!  (I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Sullivan was given help by the producers to achieve his results.) It still wouldn't be easy, but if someone is taking you for frequent walks and monitoring your food intake,  I'm pretty sure there will be changes in weight. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Chewy101]

I really hope Kate (the actress) is not in that bad of shape. I want to believe there is padding. I just don't want to see someone that unhealthy, its upsetting. 

I hate Randall, still. He was a psycho creeper on the bus, and then he decided to do "worst case scenario games" without talking to his wife about if their kids were ready for this. He NEVER consults her, just like he does everything, and I would dread being married to this psycho. You are not a team with this man, you are just yanked into a new phase as he calls it, and informed after the fact, and then you better comply. 

I'm looking forward to Baby Jack events, and Kevin meeting Cassidy. I'd be ok if Randall got sidelined for awhile. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Chewy101

[3 is enough]

Episode 2 was much better than the premiere.  I am still iffy about a possible pairing between Kevin and the female vet.  But maybe it won't be a romantic pairing?  We can hope I guess.

I really feel for kid Kevin.  He really got the short end of the stick, attention-wise.  Not surprising he could be a bit of a jerk to Randall at times.  Doesn't excuse it, of course, but it does show why it happened.

My biggest concern with Kate/Chrissy and her weight is where she carries it.  Her arms and legs are comparatively small, so most of the weight is in her midsection, which is really dangerous for her internal organs.  While I do understand the importance of accepting yourself as you are, there is a point where your health is actually being compromised as opposed to just wanting to look better in your clothes.  

[Julia67]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:01 PM, ShadowFacts said:

Baby Jack needs to lose the hat.  They always do this in TV land, keeping the newborn hat on way too long.  Yes, he's a preemie but he's six months old now and unless it is cold outside or overly cool inside, he doesn't need one.  And definitely not while sleeping, it can be a hazard.  #losethehat

I'm with you!  The hat was waaayyy too small.  And, I've noticed that almost ALL TV babies wear hats.  I've finally decided that it's probably because they're actually using different babies with different hair, etc, (because of child labor laws and amount of time they're allowed to be on air) and the hats help to disguise the fact that one baby may have brown hair, one may have no hair, etc.  That's the only explanation I can think of for the ridiculous use of hats on babies on TV/movies.

[AriAu]

Quote

I don't feel comfortable talking about the health of an actress I only know from a TV show.   Her health is a personal matter to be discussed with her doctors.  None of know that she is more unhealthy than her castmates.   Just because she is overweight does not mean that she is going to die in the next 5 years from a heart attack or stroke.

Amen to this. While it can't be good to be obese, not only is it none of our business, but it's also unfair to discuss without any real information. I hate when people do it on the internet about anyone and the fact that she is in a fictional show doesnt make it different than politicians.

Oh yeah, and the episode was really, really boring.

Edited October 7, 2019 by AriAu

[ErinV]

On 10/3/2019 at 4:00 PM, smartymarty said:

That's scary. I would think meeting a goal would only work if she does it for herself.

I see it more as having someone hold her accountable.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

Amen to this. While it can't be good to be obese, not only is it none of our business, but it's also unfair to discuss without any real information. I hate when people do it on the internet about anyone and the fact that she is in a fictional show doesnt make it different than politicians.

Oh yeah, and the episode was really, really boring.

She is an actress on a fictional show that focuses quite a bit on her weight, including in this episode where her husband expresses fear for her because she has been stress eating.  I think that makes her weight very much a topic people can discuss, including the effect on her health, just like we can can discuss Toby's heart attack and the impact/future impact on his health.

The actress's health, on the other hand, is a fruitless discussion since we know nothing about that.  I wouldn't go so far as to call it unfair to speculate on it, though, since we also have discussed things like how it might feel to the younger Kate actress to be labeled fat on this show.  If the show is saying Kate's health is in danger because of her weight, and her pregnancy was a danger to her health because of her weight, it isn't a stretch to wonder about the actress's health.  I can see how it might seem unfair to others, though.

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

She is an actress on a fictional show that focuses quite a bit on her weight, including in this episode where her husband expresses fear for her because she has been stress eating.  I think that makes her weight very much a topic people can discuss, including the effect on her health, just like we can can discuss Toby's heart attack and the impact/future impact on his health.

The actress's health, on the other hand, is a fruitless discussion since we know nothing about that.  I wouldn't go so far as to call it unfair to speculate on it, though, since we also have discussed things like how it might feel to the younger Kate actress to be labeled fat on this show.  If the show is saying Kate's health is in danger because of her weight, and her pregnancy was a danger to her health because of her weight, it isn't a stretch to wonder about the actress's health.  I can see how it might seem unfair to others, though.

There is also the absolute fact that this particular actress was cast in this particular role specifically because she was significantly overweight and knew from the moment she was cast, that her storyline was going to focus on her very significant weight problem.  

We know that the actress faces significant health risks due to her weight, just as we would know that she had special health issues if she was a diabetic or hypertensive or had any other specific condition that affects her overall health.  Being obese is a medical condition that affects her health status and risks and the fact that it is obvious upon looking at her, unlike diabetes or heart disease, is going to make it a subject of concern for the viewer.

If anyone asked the public which cast member on the show faced the greatest health risks or was most likely to die at a young age, it isn't a stretch for anyone to believe that Chrissy Metz would be the 'winner' of the poll.  

[Scarlett45]

On 10/5/2019 at 4:00 PM, Driad said:

From one whose hair is not like Tess's:  are those little braids or little twists?  What does she have to do every morning to keep her hair looking like this?

Those aren’t braids or twists. Likely that’s her natural curl pattern with some product in it from what I can see on film. 

From what I can see on the screen (again I haven’t touched her hair) she will likely be able to set it on wash day, let it dry (or blow dry it with a diffuser) and then shake it out/finger comb each morning, maybe some product and the repeat again the next time she has wash day. 

The biggest thing will be keeping the under cut close. 

Hope I was able to answer your question. 

[meggonzo]

On 10/2/2019 at 8:57 AM, PRgal said:

ETA: 1992 Kate mentioned something about a "90210 marathon."  I'm 99% sure networks didn't do "marathons" back then.  In fact, the word "marathon" meant actual running, not running entire seasons of TV shows back-to-back.  Don't forget the episode takes place BEFORE "Donna Martin Graduates!"  That won't air until the end of the season that just started.  The episode's writers must be under 35.

On 10/2/2019 at 10:42 AM, Jillybean said:

Well, I must have too much time on my hands because I just checked Wikipedia and Beverly Hills 90210 season 3 started on July 15, 1992. So the season was well underway by the end of the summer.  Not outside the realm of possibility that a marathon aired around that time, but it seems unlikely.  I was a faithful viewer but I don't recall whether they did this or not. It doesn't matter to me, though.

This was THE Summer of Deception.  I could see them running a marathon of the summer episodes before the gang started their senior year of high school.

[himela]

I may sound mean but I think that Kate is in a way happy that her son will need her for as long as possible. I still can't forgive her how irresponsible she was wanting to have a kid in this age and weight. There are so many kids that need a family but no, she wanted the extraordinary genes if Jack. So upsetting for me every time I think about it.

Other than that, the show continues to be cheesy as hell. 

[himela]

On 10/2/2019 at 5:26 AM, Scarlett45 said:

The baby is adorable. I saw Beth’s issue about the hair as a “hair cut”( rather than a trim) is a sign of “maturity” for black girls becoming teens. Like Beth said she’s not a little girl any more, but becoming a young woman. 

 Long hair on girls is associated with youth in the USA, and for black women even more so. I wasn’t allowed to cut my hair until I was 21- yes TWENTY ONE, given I was being supported and educated I chose my battles. 

Uncle Kevin does smell expensive!

I think the hair cut was a sign of Tess accepting her sexuality and less about maturing. We see her also wearing a hat in the end. It seems she wants to look less of a girl and more of a boy, hiding her feminine side in a way. This is why on the previously on this is us the scene she comes out to her parents is mentioned. 

[Scarlett45]

40 minutes ago, himela said:

I think the hair cut was a sign of Tess accepting her sexuality and less about maturing. We see her also wearing a hat in the end. It seems she wants to look less of a girl and more of a boy, hiding her feminine side in a way. This is why on the previously on this is us the scene she comes out to her parents is mentioned. 

Embracing your sexuality is a sign of maturing from childhood into adolescence & adulthood. In my original post I was referring to Beth’s reactions to Tess’ haircut not Tess’ in desire for a haircut. The fact that Tess is expressing herself in this way IS a sign she’s maturing into an independent (young) adult being, and not a little girl. Which is why Beth is sad- not that she doesn’t want Tess to grow up into a confident woman (no matter what her sexuality) but that means her little girl is gone. Yes the coming out scene was on previously on, because Tess is growing up, her coming out was just one example of that (remember the coming out scene with Kate occurred right after she got her period). 
 

 I don’t think Tess is trying to look less like a girl- that’s a very feminine haircut to me even though it was short. But it was an adolescent hair cut. Plenty of lesbians enjoy looking conventionally feminine. 

[himela]

On 10/2/2019 at 8:21 PM, saber5055 said:

Why he's going to the gym in secret makes no sense to me. Tell Kate it makes you feel better and you are enjoying it. Period. She doesn't have to go, why can't Toby have interests of his own?

This would be insensitive in my opinion. It's not like he started learning an instrument or a new foregn language. Going to the gym is something that Kate will take the wrong way. She will of course be happy for him, but it will make her feel awful. I think he is right hiding it from her.

(I never knew that the actor playing Toby had a fat suit on. I'm surprised.)

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, himela said:

I may sound mean but I think that Kate is in a way happy that her son will need her for as long as possible. I still can't forgive her how irresponsible she was wanting to have a kid in this age and weight. There are so many kids that need a family but no, she wanted the extraordinary genes if Jack. So upsetting for me every time I think about it.

Other than that, the show continues to be cheesy as hell. 

The “Mommy Martyr Syndrome” is definately a thing we discuss a lot in my Sib Group (adult siblings of those with disablities), where the mother finds her purpose and identity in caring for the disabled child and becomes co-dependent. BUT in the grand scheme of things Jack won’t “need her for as long as possible”, he’s not a perpetual 2yrs old (like my sister who’s a Tall Toddler at 31) or catatonic. Plenty of blind people have educations, careers and perfectly independent lives like sighted people.  So I think right now Kate is completely destroyed by guilt, cause yep SHE wanted to be pregnant, SHE wanted to carry on her DNA- “there’s nothing in the world as strong as a mother’s guilt”, let the child have a disability or illness of some kind and that’s amplified times a million. 

[Pallas]

I'm afraid it's the show that needs Kate to find a purpose and identity in caring/advocating for her blind son. 

[Scarlett45]

45 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I'm afraid it's the show that needs Kate to find a purpose and identity in caring/advocating for her blind son. 

The Mommy Martyr Syndrome is REAL. Ugh. Of course there is nothing wrong with Kate wanting to be the best mother possible to her son (obviously), but his lack of vision shouldn’t give her life more purpose. 

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Mommy Martyr Syndrome is REAL. Ugh.

Absolutely. But the show has never shown us an adult Kate with any true interests or even traits at all -- anything, beyond "oh, well, wait, music, sometimes." And nothing about that vacuum strikes me as a deliberate choice.

Kate's shown no purpose, identity or even personality to lose or subvert. So, her likely embrace of Mommy Martyr Syndrome feels more like a bait-and-switch for a missing characterization. Making Jack's blindness a lucky break.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:29 AM, himela said:

I may sound mean but I think that Kate is in a way happy that her son will need her for as long as possible. I still can't forgive her how irresponsible she was wanting to have a kid in this age and weight. There are so many kids that need a family but no, she wanted the extraordinary genes if Jack. So upsetting for me every time I think about it.

Other than that, the show continues to be cheesy as hell. 

I don't think 39 is too old to try to have a baby, even if help is required. The huge health risks present in this particular case are another issue

I don't think that Kate and Toby would have found it easy to adopt.

Edited October 23, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[himela]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't think 39 is too old to try to have a baby, even if help is required. The huge health risks present in this particular case are another issue

I don't think that Kate and Toby would have found it easy to adopt.

If they would have found it hard to adopt it means that the psychologists and other people who decide who is suited to adopt and who isn't would find them not suitable, which is true. We all have discussed that Kate is in danger to have a stroke or other illnesses, but even if this doesn't happen in the next 18 years that she will raise the kid, she can't even walk properly. Do you find it fair that a kid has a mom who can't even take it to the park or go play with it etc? People with health problems should not have kids in my opinion.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/23/2019 at 1:08 PM, himela said:

If they would have found it hard to adopt it means that the psychologists and other people who decide who is suited to adopt and who isn't would find them not suitable, which is true. We all have discussed that Kate is in danger to have a stroke or other illnesses, but even if this doesn't happen in the next 18 years that she will raise the kid, she can't even walk properly. Do you find it fair that a kid has a mom who can't even take it to the park or go play with it etc? People with health problems should not have kids in my opinion.

As women in wheelchairs, etc. can be excellent mothers, I don't want to generalize. However, a typical birth mother might not choose Kate as an adoptive mom, thus my comment about them not finding it easy to adopt.

Edited October 24, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[memememe76]

Given Toby’s heart attack and mental health issues, I don’t see how easy it’d be for them to adopt. Their options are limited. 
 

I guess I have seen parents with kids with wayyyy more issues than Kate and Toby.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Worst case scenario

Kate & Kevin

[maddie965]

I'm trying to watch this show again, but it's so boring I fall asleep every single time. I think I'm done. Will keep a look here for good Kevin moments. Still love Kevin. Wish they did a spin-off with him only.

[maddie965]

On 10/7/2019 at 3:48 PM, AriAu said:

Edited November 4, 2019 by maddie965

[maddie965]

On 10/4/2019 at 8:44 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't feel comfortable talking about the health of an actress I only know from a TV show.   Her health is a personal matter to be discussed with her doctors.  None of know that she is more unhealthy than her castmates.   Just because she is overweight does not mean that she is going to die in the next 5 years from a heart attack or stroke.

This. Leave Chrissy Metz alone. Her personal life is hers. Enough with the hate disguised as concern. Fat people have the right to live, and have kids, and be happy. God knows TV is filled with unrealistically thin women. Aren't you concerned about their health???

She looks amazing on that cover. Happy for her.

Edited November 4, 2019 by maddie965

[Chewy101]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:56 AM, maddie965 said:

This. Leave Chrissy Metz alone. Her personal life is hers. Enough with the hate disguised as concern. Fat people have the right to live, and have kids, and be happy. God knows TV is filled with unrealistically thin women. Aren't you concerned about their health???

YES! ANYone at an unhealthy weight, whether overweight or underweight, makes me concerned. And people who are public are going to be under different scrutiny. It's just how it is. People will worry, they will speculate. A woman carrying that much weight so close to her heart is in danger. And saying she isn't is like saying a diabetic should go loosy goosy with their insulin, because no one has a right to look out for another person. It's not hate, it's science. 

 Anyway, the boards are up for grabs on opinions, so long as we are respectful to one another. And I don't see it as any different than hoping someone quits smoking, or rooting for Kevin and Uncle to stay sober. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Chewy101
ETA, I just thought of the elephant in the room analogy, or the emperor has no clothes. This is a story line that has been heavily focused on since the beginning of the show, so I don't see why it needs to be ignored or not discussed.