S02.E07: The Return

[Eyes High]

12 hours ago, scrb said:

Why is she cooking for her adult children instead of having a cook prepare something more palatable than pigeons with buckshot and feathers?

As passive-aggressive punishment for her children for perceived slights, or at least that's how I read it. It seems as if the kids sided with Logan in the divorce and subsequently kept their distance. How awful must Caroline have been as a mother if the kids decided they'd rather take their chances with the abusive monster Logan than her? The mind reels. 

9 hours ago, rue721 said:

On the one hand, I feel bad for Kendall because I don't really think that the waiter's death was his fault (to me, it seemed like a tragic accident more than anything) and seeing him walk around like a shell of a person is just so depressing. On the other hand, it's like, shit or get off the pot. If you think you should accept responsibility, than walk into the police station and do that.

Yes, exactly. Kendall knows exactly what to do if he wants to feel better about his role in the waiter's death: march into a police station and confess all. There's nothing Logan could do to stop him if he decided once and for all to end this farce, and if Ted Kennedy's fate is any indication, Kendall wouldn't do any serious prison time, either. (Ted Kennedy's biggest punishment for Chappaquiddick was that it probably scuppered his chance to be President, which...boo fucking hoo.) Kendall doesn't want to do that, though: instead, we have Kendall making the occasional sad face in between corporate intrigue and romps with Naomi.

Also, if Kendall were really serious about atoning for what he did, he would be working on himself and would be getting sober first and foremost; it was his drug addiction issues that led to a man's death in the first place, so a minimal step would be ensuring that he never hurt anyone else with his addiction issues ever again. Instead, he's not only still on drugs, which certainly hasn't helped his mental state, but he has now entered into a romantic relationship with another addict. Of course, getting high all the time and banging a beautiful heiress is fun and easy, while getting sober and steering clear of relationships with beautiful, charismatic addicts because they're unhealthy is unfun and hard, so here we are.

Furthermore, remember that Kendall coerced an unwilling "I don't do white drugs" Greg into doing cocaine at Tom's bachelor party in Season 1 to prevent Kendall from ODing (a hideous thing for which Kendall never apologized). In Season 2, Greg begs Roman for some cocaine at Argestes, pathetically pleading "I need a boost." This is another example of the toxic effect Kendall's addiction has had on others: he manipulated Greg into doing lines, and now Greg "needs" cocaine to deal with stressful situations. He's continuing to harm people with his addictions, maybe even fatally depending on how Greg deals with his drug issues, and he refuses to take responsibility for any of it or change. 

...So yeah, Kendall feels bad about the waiter? Great. He needs a wakeup call.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Eyes High

[Tikichick]

15 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Oh I don't think she's more together than her brothers - clearly something is broken in her too. She just seems to be more together because she doesn't have the obvious, in-your-face crutches that Kendall and Roman use. Kendall is a known drug addict to pretty much everyone and Roman uses his "rock star" persona to keep people at a distance. 

I just think, in comparison, that Shiv gives the appearance of being more competent and able then her siblings. 

I'm also agreeing that I'm not liking her much either and I too am also usually about "woman power". For me it's that she's gone from zero to sixty in terms of letting the power plays go to her head. 

Funny thing, while Rhea is turning into a super-schemer, she is still the female I'm currently rooting for (though I use the term rooting loosely) of all the women. She at least is coming across as competent in her efforts. Yes she got fired by Nan Pierce but at this point I'm not sure she didn't plan that in some way given how "in" she seems to be with Logan. 

That's not to say she's who I really want to "win" it all, but she is more interesting to me. I'm actually liking the thought of Shiv and Kendall getting together with Marcia in response to Rhea. The siblings are always at their best when they're supporting each other, so I'm here for that.

Shiv's freak flag simply isn't hoisted as proud and out there as those of her siblings.  It's definitely there.  Scary to realize she's been influenced by Logan, which would clearly be more than enough to warp someone -- but I think simply by virtue of being female she's also more likely to take some cues from mom, very cunning, brittle and cold cues.

If Rhea planned her exit from Pierce was she the sole architect?  She seems to feel she still has ears in the company more than willing to listen to her, and who are apparently sharing information with her.  Interesting if she's being truthful and that is correct.  Does she have any allies in the Roy camp, quietly offering her information and supporting her efforts, possibly even endorsing the angle where it appears she's having a dalliance with Logan?   

[teddysmom]

On 9/22/2019 at 10:49 PM, haje said:

And it makes it even worse because the last episode and the beginning of this episode was probably the happiest we've ever seen him.

Agree I was slightly crushing on him telling Naomi he wouldn't send her a dick pic and then when he was all "how do you even do this".  

I think the reason he can't confess to police or anyone else is it will hurt the company and his father will kill him. (Not literally).   It would also kill the takeover so maybe that's a good thing? 

[teddysmom]

Logan really is going to regret getting close to Rhea.  And to punish Kendall for trying to warn him. Well we know how old powerful white guys don't like being told they are acting like fools. 

[rue721]

Kendall was right that Rhea is manipulating Logan, but from Logan’s perspective it’s kinda the pot calling the kettle black considering that a Pierce just flounced out from Kendall’s bed lol. Plus, it’s pretty insulting to have someone say that a person who’s acting attracted to you could not actually be attracted to you, you know?

I don’t think that the company would suffer if Kendall confessed, he’s not the patriarch and he’s got a reputation as a screw up drug addict. It would just be humiliating.

I think that’s Kendall initially didn’t confess because this was the (awful) way that his dad would let him back into the fold, and at that moment, Kendall was devastated, vulnerable and absolutely desperate to be allowed back in the fold. Logan had literally had him bum rushed from the building when Kendall lost the takeover vote, things were BAD between them, and then Kendall gave Logan the bear hug letter at Shiv’s wedding and exploded whatever possible relationship might be left. That was tough on him, that’s why he was so desperate for drugs and bothering the waiter in the first place.

Logan and Kendall’s relationship since the crash has been 100% on Logan’s terms, and Kendall has been so desperate not to get thrown out again that he’s been willing to abide by those terms completely. And Logan punishes him harshly if Kendall so much as pushes a boundary, like when Kendall warned him about Rhea or got cozy with Naomi without Logan’s say-so.

I think at this point it’s not so much that Kendall doesn’t want to confess (he asked Logan if he could talk to the family when he was at their house, went back to drop off money, and tried to confess to his mom), it’s that confessing would be an independent act, and Kendall isn’t capable right now of acting independently. Which in its own way is actually MORE depressing, but....Kendall is fucked up, man. 

[Princess Sparkle]

All I could think of when Caroline wanted the kids to spend Christmas with her, and did her quick "I'm assuming you're ok with coming for Christmas" to Kendall is...what about his kids? Ones that she didn't seem to take into consideration. Certainly now that he's divorced, Rava isn't going to appreciate him taking the kids to another country for the holidays. Which means he probably doesn't get to see his own children for Christmas.

[BlackberryJam]

I think it’s unfair to expect Kendall to think through things like a person who is not a drug addict in the middle of a breakdown. If he were thinking rationally, he wouldn’t be using drugs in the first place. Instead he’s “My life is a disaster, I have no support, I don’t know what to do, cocaine makes me feel better, oh look Naomi, Naomi understands cocaine and with her addiction, at least a little part of me, I can be with Naomi and forget.” I mean, that’s what addiction is. He doesn’t have what it takes to make smart choices right now. 

Mental health treatment would help, and yes, prison would get him clean, but he’s not a rational thinker.

At the end of last season, Kendall was shell-shocked and Logan took control, probably something Logan did often. Then once Logan had put things in place, and Kendall was in Iceland trying to put his head on straight, Logan pulled him out.  So Kendall is now back to drugs and drug-enablers like Naomi.

Kendall, and every member of the Roy family, is toxic to everyone they know.

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I think at this point it’s not so much that Kendall doesn’t want to confess (he asked Logan if he could talk to the family when he was at their house, went back to drop off money, and tried to confess to his mom), it’s that confessing would be an independent act, and Kendall isn’t capable right now of acting independently. Which in its own way is actually MORE depressing, but....Kendall is fucked up, man. 

It's not clear what he wants to confess, exactly, though. I doubt when he asked if he should talk to the parents he meant he was going to tell them the truth. He just wanted to say something to them, imo, hoping that he'd feel better if he did. Maybe if he said something nice they appreciated he'd feel like he did something nice for them. It's like the money. Whatever he wanted to say to his mother, he probably wasn't intending on that to lead to the secret being publicly known either. 

13 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think it’s unfair to expect Kendall to think through things like a person who is not a drug addict in the middle of a breakdown. If he were thinking rationally, he wouldn’t be using drugs in the first place. Instead he’s “My life is a disaster, I have no support, I don’t know what to do, cocaine makes me feel better, oh look Naomi, Naomi understands cocaine and with her addiction, at least a little part of me, I can be with Naomi and forget.” I mean, that’s what addiction is. He doesn’t have what it takes to make smart choices right now. 

JMO, but I think Kendall would be making the same choices now if he wasn't using. I think even sober he'd be choosing to obey his father and not confess to his crime. Probably he wouldn't be pushing drugs on Greg, I guess.

But underneath Kendall knows the real situation. I mean, his addiction does wreak hell on his decision-making, but the decision to continue to use is still his. It's an addiction, but the end of most addictions come when the addict is ready to quit. Ultimately there's only one person/consciousness there, if that makes sense.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Agree I was slightly crushing on him telling Naomi he wouldn't send her a dick pic and then when he was all "how do you even do this".  

It's hilarious that Kendall had aspirations to run a billion dollar empire but can't even negotiate successfully with his own girlfriend.

33 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think it’s unfair to expect Kendall to think through things like a person who is not a drug addict in the middle of a breakdown.

What's to think through? There's no mystery. Drug addicts who want to get clean go to rehab. Criminals who want to come clean confess their crimes to the authorities. That's it. Kendall knows exactly what he needs to do to fix this--confess to the police, accept the punishment, and get clean once and for all--but he doesn't want to do it because it's hard, so instead he makes sad faces and woos a fellow drug addict. (And if he really cared at all about Naomi as a person, he would steer well clear of her.) There is nothing about Kendall's behaviour which reflects any serious willingness to change. In fact, he was giddy as hell with Naomi until he got a cold dose of reality from Logan about the damage his actions have caused.

...And really, not wanting to do things because they're hard is the Roy children's problem in a nutshell. It's a product of their spoiled upbringings. That's why the self-made Logan, who I assume had some sort of discipline and work ethic to go from zero to billionaire, resents them so much (as Kendall cruelly but accurately observed in Season 1), although I suppose if he cared that much about toughening them up he would have spoiled them less.

Quote

I think at this point it’s not so much that Kendall doesn’t want to confess (he asked Logan if he could talk to the family when he was at their house, went back to drop off money, and tried to confess to his mom), it’s that confessing would be an independent act, and Kendall isn’t capable right now of acting independently. Which in its own way is actually MORE depressing, but....Kendall is fucked up, man. 

Yes, but confess to whom? Not the police, but his mother. Kendall wanted to confess to someone without any legal consequences or risk of punishment. That's a pathetic half-measure, about as meaningful as shoving some cash through the family's mailslot. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Eyes High

[BlackberryJam]

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It's not clear what he wants to confess, exactly, though. I doubt when he asked if he should talk to the parents he meant he was going to tell them the truth. He just wanted to say something to them, imo, hoping that he'd feel better if he did. Maybe if he said something nice they appreciated he'd feel like he did something nice for them. It's like the money. Whatever he wanted to say to his mother, he probably wasn't intending on that to lead to the secret being publicly known either. 

JMO, but I think Kendall would be making the same choices now if he wasn't using. I think even sober he'd be choosing to obey his father and not confess to his crime. Probably he wouldn't be pushing drugs on Greg, I guess.

But underneath Kendall knows the real situation. I mean, his addiction does wreak hell on his decision-making, but the decision to continue to use is still his. It's an addiction, but the end of most addictions come when the addict is ready to quit. Ultimately there's only one person/consciousness there, if that makes sense.

He might, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Kendall started using hard drugs before he reached 18. 

As a person who’s never struggled with addiction, I can see how it’s easy to just point the finger at addicts, assume they know what needs to be done and just assume they are choosing not to do it. But in my professional life, I’ve dealt with more than a few addicts. It’s not that easy and that’s not the choice for them, it’s not “drugs are easy YAY do drugs!” Or “make a hard choice and get clean because it's the right thing to do.”

Addicts have a burning, craving need for drugs that clouds their thinking. It’s more like, “I’ll just use today and then stop, but today is going to be rough and I just need something to get me through.” And, “I’m worthless and weak and I cannot function and I can’t let anyone (especially my father Logan) know how weak I am so I’ll take drugs which help me fake not being worthless and weak.”

Of course addicts have made the choices that led to them becoming drug addicts, and that is all on them. But addicts who are using just aren’t rational thinkers.

But of course, Kendall is responsible for his actions regarding the waiter and I am all for reasonable punishment for him.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yes, but confess to whom? Not the police, but his mother. Kendall wanted to confess to someone without any legal consequences or risk of punishment. That's a pathetic half-measure, about as meaningful as shoving some cash through the family's mailslot. 

Yes, I believe that he wants absolution but he doesn't want to do anything for it, no matter how much he's suffering in the limbo he's in now. Ultimately, like you said, he has an inner softness that makes him incapable of taking bold action. He likes to picture himself doing so--remember him listening to rap music in his first scene on the show. Trying to take over the company from Logan was also an attempt at a bold move. But there's nothing--or not enough--behind it. His father can just say "No" and he's stymied. He can't even say what his real vision is.

And of course Logan is part of the reason for this. He gave the kids a soft upbringing and was also abusive. He raised them to look up to him like some god compared to whom they were powerless. But this is the personality he wound up with and that's what's driving him now. 

Just now, BlackberryJam said:

As a person who’s never struggled with addiction, I can see how it’s easy to just point the finger at addicts, assume they know what needs to be done and just assume they are choosing not to do it. But in my professional life, I’ve dealt with more than a few addicts. It’s not that easy and that’s not the choice for them, it’s not “drugs are easy YAY do drugs!” Or “make a hard choice and get clean because it's the right thing to do.”

I'm honestly not trying to suggest it's easy at all. I'm just saying it's true. Of course it would be very hard for him to stay sober. It would be incredibly hard to stand up publicly and admit to a crime and maybe have to go to jail. I don't know if I could do it! But the reason he's not doing it is because he's not ready to do it. There's just no getting around it.

Because his thinking on this subject actually is completely rational. What's not rational about wanting to not go to jail or be publicly shunned for a DUI that ended in someone's death? Or even doing drugs to distract yourself from the guilt? It's totally rational even without his history of addiction that wires his brain to always go down that track.

[rue721]

When Kendall was at the family’s house, his main thought seemed to me to be, “it should have been me.” Just my interpretation.

I think what he really needed to say to the family is that he’s sorry for their loss. But if the floodgates has opened, I think he could very well have told them exactly what happened.

And honestly, I think that would have been fine. It’s not like it’s better for the family to believe that Logan bullied the waiter to death. It also seems questionable that Kendall would even be held criminally liable. More likely would probably be a civil suit, which wouldn’t even have much of an affect on the Roy’s finances.

I don’t think he wants absolution, I think it’s just eating him up that this kid died and he survived, and why?! I think he just needs to share that feeling with somebody, more than he needs them to respond in any particular way.

Anyhow, I also felt for Kendall when Logan got back in the car and was basically like, “well, it’s not really that tragic because who cares about some fucked up druggie anyhow? At least they’ve still got Waystar to watch.” I felt for Kendall because you know he AND Logan both know that Kendall’s much more of a fucked up junkie than that kid was. It was Logan saying in so many words that he wouldn’t care if Kendall died, he’s junkie trash anyhow. I felt like that was pretty harsh.

I think at this point, Kendall really needs drugs to get through the day. He’s self-medicating. I think he would need a lot of support to get sober right now — you can’t just take away a crutch, replace it with nothing, and expect someone to walk just fine like they’d never needed the crutch in the first place.

[Arcey]

Thoughts on Greg(ory) and Tom? I was disappointed that Gregory caved to Tom, even if he did take some crumpled pages back. If he was wired, I don't think he ever got Tom to say anything incriminating aloud during that whole firepit scene.

[tennisgurl]

What’s really sad about the whole “tell your father to pick between the summer palace and Christmas with you all” thing is that it’s utterly pointless beyond her taking a swipe at Logan and proving a mean point to her kids. They're all adults, this isn’t a custody thing, she can’t actually make them come to Christmas with her, she just prettily wants to remind her kids how little their father values them to make him look bad.

[Pop Tart]

7 hours ago, Arcey said:

Thoughts on Greg(ory) and Tom? I was disappointed that Gregory caved to Tom, even if he did take some crumpled pages back. If he was wired, I don't think he ever got Tom to say anything incriminating aloud during that whole firepit scene.

I loved Greg’s practice runs in the bathroom. He is sometimes smart like this and then other times just dumb as a box of rocks. Smart to try and record Tom, dumb to be keeping the papers in a folder marked “secret” and he didn’t make copies!

Interesting thing with Greg is that he’s somewhat positioned to be the “moral” one but when offered more power and money he goes for it every time. I think with him they’re trying to show how even a “good” person can so easily be swayed by the money and power. 

Something else no one has commented on is when Logan asked Rhea to give her opinions of the kids and how, while completely self-serving, spot on her take on each of them she was.

Which brings me back to Shiv. Much as she’s been far too arrogant for not very realistic reasons, Logan’s allowing Rhea to set her up so he had a good excuse to dump her? Horrendous. And I’m now more than ever convinced that Logan only put her into play as a possible CEO as a chess move in his hopes of getting Pierce.  He was never serious about the possibility of her taking over. But instead of telling her the deal was off he had Rhea lure her into a misstep and then used that to cut her off at the knees.

[sistermagpie]

28 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I loved Greg’s practice runs in the bathroom. He is sometimes smart like this and then other times just dumb as a box of rocks. Smart to try and record Tom, dumb to be keeping the papers in a folder marked “secret” and he didn’t make copies!

 I really like how Greg is no angel (when we met him he was screwing up at his job as an animal at the park thanks to a hangover), but he doesn't fall into either the cliche of being the morally upright and completely innocent country cousin *or* the innocent country cousin who's quickly seduced *or* the cousin who seems like a dumb hick but is secretly ambitious and ruthless. He's more in between.

Edited September 25, 2019 by sistermagpie

[BlackberryJam]

Didn’t Cousin Greg’s mom send him to Logan with instructions on getting in with the family? I think Greg, like Tom, wants to be a power player, or at least get the benefits from that, but Greg lacks the emotional investment that Tom has (Shiv.)

[HeddaGabler]

Given the fact that Kendall appears to be the only family member who actually engages with business statistics and the fine details of acquisitions, I'm sure Logan knows that Kendall is actually an asset, and that a sober Kendall is actually a formidable adversary to Logan. Otherwise, Logan would not have printed rumours about Kendall using drugs again (Season 1, right before the family met for counselling) to throw Kendall off. Kendall can be controlled with drugs and emotional whipsawing, so Logan uses that to his advantage. He controls Roman through fear and intimidation, and now he's trying to figure out how to get Shiv under control too. 

[rue721]

24 minutes ago, HeddaGabler said:

Given the fact that Kendall appears to be the only family member who actually engages with business statistics and the fine details of acquisitions, I'm sure Logan knows that Kendall is actually an asset, and that a sober Kendall is actually a formidable adversary to Logan. Otherwise, Logan would not have printed rumours about Kendall using drugs again (Season 1, right before the family met for counselling) to throw Kendall off. Kendall can be controlled with drugs and emotional whipsawing, so Logan uses that to his advantage. He controls Roman through fear and intimidation, and now he's trying to figure out how to get Shiv under control too. 

Responding in Kendall's thread.

[cardigirl]

I've been musing on this episode a bit, and am wondering if Naomi might not also be in on an end game herself.  I would not be surprised if she had teamed up with Rhea to, if not take over Waystar Royco, destroy the family.  The story she told of being devastated by their news media attention of her life when her mother died and she cracked up her car, gives her such a motive.  Kendall is love-struck enough not to be suspicious of her, but I really fear the dick-pic is going to come back to haunt him. He seemed so naive in that moment, but others have been undone by such shenanigans. 

It will be interesting to see if there really are that many chess players moving pieces against the Roys out there, and if so, will the Roys be able to come together to defend and protect themselves. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by cardigirl

[scrb]

I don't think dick pic will hurt him.

Unless he took a picture of his whole body and face, how will they identify him?

In any event, the worst that could happen is Kendall will never be CEO, probably have to resign as COO.

But would that be the worst thing in the world?  He needs help more than he needs that job.

[BlackberryJam]

50 minutes ago, scrb said:

I don't think dick pic will hurt him.

Unless he took a picture of his whole body and face, how will they identify him?

In any event, the worst that could happen is Kendall will never be CEO, probably have to resign as COO.

But would that be the worst thing in the world?  He needs help more than he needs that job.

Yeah, a dick pic is the least of Kendall's worries.

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

I don't think dick pic will hurt him.

Unless he took a picture of his whole body and face, how will they identify him?

In any event, the worst that could happen is Kendall will never be CEO, probably have to resign as COO.

But would that be the worst thing in the world?  He needs help more than he needs that job.

If substance abuse issues didn't end Kendall's CEO aspirations, I don't know that a dick pic would  change the equation much.

I guess Naomi could claim that he sent it unsolicited, but otherwise, I really don't see the issue. Sending nudes (consensually) is pretty standard these days, especially in long distance relationships of the type Kendall and Naomi seem to have. And if Naomi published the photograph against his will, it would be revenge porn and would reflect poorly on Naomi, not Kendall. People came out pretty strongly in support of Jeff Bezos when he published his own embarrassing photos to put a stop to a blackmail attempt.

[cardigirl]

On 9/26/2019 at 9:32 PM, Eyes High said:

If substance abuse issues didn't end Kendall's CEO aspirations, I don't know that a dick pic would  change the equation much.

I guess Naomi could claim that he sent it unsolicited, but otherwise, I really don't see the issue. Sending nudes (consensually) is pretty standard these days, especially in long distance relationships of the type Kendall and Naomi seem to have. And if Naomi published the photograph against his will, it would be revenge porn and would reflect poorly on Naomi, not Kendall. People came out pretty strongly in support of Jeff Bezos when he published his own embarrassing photos to put a stop to a blackmail attempt.

Clearly, I know very little about these things.  🙂   

[Snewtsie]

On 9/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, cardigirl said:

I have a question for others who watch this show and comment here.  Reviewers all seem to adore Shiv, either because of her hair, her clothes, or because they all think she is as smart as she thinks she is, but I was happy to find her out in the cold after her attempt to force Logan to name her publicly, her dinosaur-gate issues, and her too sincere "memo."  

Am I missing something?  I mean, I love all the characters, because of how well they are written and acted, but I'm definitely not rooting for her particularly. 

I don't understand the adoration for Shiv, she's not as smart as she thinks she is. 🙂  

I can answer for myself- there's something really charismatic about this actress.  I think she's quite stunning, but not too perfect looking (although I preferred her hair in S1 because it made her seem more of a real person- this new hairstyle is too polished). I think the actress is superb, and I have never seen her in anything before, so I'm a little fascinated with her. 

As for the character of Shiv, she clearly not as smart as she thinks she is. Now that we are in S2, I am able to see past her charisma & beauty, and I'm honestly pretty repulsed by her.  She is a horrible, horrible, horrible person. It's funny how much I originally hated Tom, and now I feel sympathy for him because of how badly she manipulates him. I think she lacks a soul, to be honest, and I really want to see her taken down a notch. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:27 PM, scrb said:

Caroline wants the kids to come to her every Christmas and has to bargain for it.  

Reminded me of Gilmore Girls.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:16 PM, Snewtsie said:

I can answer for myself- there's something really charismatic about this actress.  I think she's quite stunning, but not too perfect looking (although I preferred her hair in S1 because it made her seem more of a real person- this new hairstyle is too polished). I think the actress is superb, and I have never seen her in anything before, so I'm a little fascinated with her. 

As for the character of Shiv, she clearly not as smart as she thinks she is. Now that we are in S2, I am able to see past her charisma & beauty, and I'm honestly pretty repulsed by her.  She is a horrible, horrible, horrible person. It's funny how much I originally hated Tom, and now I feel sympathy for him because of how badly she manipulates him. I think she lacks a soul, to be honest, and I really want to see her taken down a notch. 

Season 1 Shiv was so utterly beautiful I was distracted by it every single second.  Her hair was so romantic, and sometimes wavy/curly.  I was falling in love with Sarah Snook.

It makes me a bit ashamed how much has changed in S2.  I've gotten over the infatuation.  Is it really all about the haircut?  I guess I don't like it as much.  LOL.  

[Snewtsie]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Season 1 Shiv was so utterly beautiful I was distracted by it every single second.  Her hair was so romantic, and sometimes wavy/curly.  I was falling in love with Sarah Snook.

It makes me a bit ashamed how much has changed in S2.  I've gotten over the infatuation.  Is it really all about the haircut?  I guess I don't like it as much.  LOL.  

You echo my very sentiments! 🙂  There is just something completely magnetic about this actress, and now that I've watched all of S2, I'd like to say I'm over her- but I was wrong, I'm still completely fascinated with her.  LOL.  Damn!  I will definitely stand by my assertion that I prefer her hair in S1. It had a 1940's Katharine Hepburn vibe which I found really refreshing. I know they gave her hair a power cut in S2, but I just think it looks too polished and rather stereotypical. To the people who rave about it- yes, technically it looks good on her, but for me, it makes her look too polished & too perfect on the surface, and I find that a turn off.  The one thing we know about all of these characters is there is so much going on deeper than what they show us.  Anyway, isn't it funny a hair style can make that much of a difference?  But let's face it, they can shave her head and she would still be utterly magnetic. That goes for all of the actors on this show.  It's seriously a show with some of the best performances I have ever seen.

[scrb]

I was  surfing channels and I saw Sarah Snoop in some old movie, set in the South.

So Australian actress doing a Southern accent.

Of course she wasn't dressed up like a billionaire.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

To the people who rave about it- yes, technically it looks good on her, but for me, it makes her look too polished & too perfect on the surface, and I find that a turn off. 

That might be what I don't like about it.  Season 1 Shiv looked a bit more imperfect, messy, unkempt LOL.  She looked so romantic and vulnerable.  

And for me it's not gendered cuz I like when men look the same way 🙂

Edited January 19, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/23/2019 at 8:49 AM, BeckyThatcher said:

Kendall slipping the money through the family’s letterbox was so painful to watch. The tension in that scene- will he knock on the door, will he- oh no- don’t put the money in the house! 

Thank you! I was hoping someone would say what he put through the mail slot, because I couldn't figure it out. I guess money is the only thing that makes sense. I was sure someone was going to open the door while he was standing there. It's always morally confusing when you're hoping that someone who has done something terrible will get away with it.

[Mr. R0b0t]

Tom's a terrible person; why do I like Tom?

 

[lucindabelle]

It’s like there are two Tons.

tom with shiv is vulnerable, sincere, sad.

tom with Greg is obnoxious. Pompous, cruel.

of course Caroline can’t make adult kids come for Christmas. So I doubt the kids would be upset that dad took the much much better deal.

 

why would the grieving family WANT a visit from the roys? If it didn’t come with money what’s the point?

caroline was unbearably uninterwsted in her sons sadness. She’s twice the sociopath her husband is.

[KittyQ]

RE: Shiv's "memo" - The Roy business doesn't seem to conform to any of the usual big business practices. In my experience, every public communication is reviewed by someone else and the legal department may also weigh in to be sure that nothing will inadvertently open the company to legal action. Granted that "officially" Shiv isn't part of the business, but she is a prominent member of the family who represents the company publicly on occasion, so she shouldn't have published anything unvetted and more importantly, given her actual work experience, she should know better. 

[KittyQ]

On 9/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, cardigirl said:

I still think Greg might end up on the "Iron Throne"

Haha! That was my thought too!