Affairs and More Affairs: The Series As a Whole & Speculation for the End

[PrincessPurrsALot]

This is the topic to reflect upon seasons 1 through 4 (and whatever we've seen so far in season 5).  Discuss how we got here and where we are going. Feel free to talk about what you've seen in previews and to speculate on where the show is going.  How will it end?  Will Helen and Noah get back together?  Will Whitney repeat the mistakes of her mother's past? Will Noah meet people that do not want to have sex with him?  Will his children ever treat him with something other than disdain?  Will Janelle's storyline get truly integrated into the show? And what about Joanie? Will we ever really care about adult Joanie? 

Post away! 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Will we ever really care about adult Joanie? 

I commented earlier that I think adult Joanie is only on this show to play Detective LaToya all season to solve the mystery of her mother's "suicide" which will magically cure her of her own depression.

I think Helen and NoahSolloway will get back together. 

The End.  

[scrb]

It's crawling to the finish line.

It's past its sell by date.

Just enjoy the eye rolls and snarks at this point.

[grommit2]

OK...you asked, so here goes:
1) Whitney (everyone's favorite whiney teen...now an insufferable 20-something) will go on to be a successful writer, director, producer...developing all sorts of projects associated with cheating husbands.
2) Helen will go on to be elected Mayor of NYC, then Governor, then be appointed to Veep when Ivanka steps down, and finally...President.
3) Cole will return, punch out Noah, buy back the Ranch, and live out his days as a real estate developer.
4) And Noah...ah Noah...will go on to be a movie producer...financing all of Whitney's movies.
5) Joanie discovers the real murderer, but decides to keep it a secret because, well, you know, it would really unsettle Montauk.
6) But, best of all, Furkat (what a GREAT name), returns as a world famous painter and has several immensely successful shows at the Whitney (the one in NYC).
 

[chabelisaywow]

I think Noah and Helen get back together.  They raise baby Eddie. Noah cheats on her again with adult Joanie. 

[Razzberry]

When Cole hears that a certain actor has been cast for his character he throws a hissy-fit and shows up in LA (surfboard still strapped to the roof).  Livid about the way he's being portrayed as a moody, hot-headed control freak, he quickly becomes persona non grata and is banned from the set after an altercation with a stunt double.   

After threatening the director with a libel lawsuit Cole consults an attorney, who can barely keep from laughing through Cole's heated rant.  "I'm not unsympathetic, but let me ask you something" he finally breaks in.  "Think of the hundreds of thousands of films and television shows over the years.  When's the last time you heard of a successful libel lawsuit?"

"But I never did those things, or spoke those words!" Cole shouted. "How can they do that?"

"The entertainment industry sees it as a 1st Amendment issue.  What would happen if every butt-hurt yokel was successful in suing?   Forget it.  Suck it up.  Not gonna happen.  But thanks for coming in,  you can pay the $150. consulting fee at the front desk."

[chenoa333]

On 9/5/2019 at 12:56 PM, scrb said:

It's crawling to the finish line.

It's past its sell by date.

Just enjoy the eye rolls and snarks at this point.

Perfect description! I watch it because of the $hitty writing/plot. It's actually funny as in hee hee! But I'm glad I won't have to look at wrinkled Noah anymore😄

[LoveLeigh]

On 9/5/2019 at 3:56 PM, scrb said:

It's crawling to the finish line.

It's past its sell by date.

Just enjoy the eye rolls and snarks at this point.

I disagree. I love this show and I would love a few more seasons. I am loving the Joanie parts. So there will be no "snark" from me. 

[JenE4]

Noah and Helen end up back together...and let’s just forget about all of the lives we ruined—and ended—along the way.

[LoveLeigh]

I think Joanie will figure out her mom was murdered. And I think she will visit an old Noah and Helen and it will end with a tearjerker scene. 

[chabelisaywow]

I hope for more Vic flashback scenes. He is really they only character I like (even with the cheating!!). 

[Razzberry]

An earthquake  dislodges Helen's house from the precipice and they all go screamin' into the canyon?

[gingerella]

Eh, I'm guessing Joanie dies the same way her mother did. They just have bad mojo. Noah ends up alone, and Helen ends up with someone hot. To be honest, I no longer really care, so I'm just spitballing, the same way I'd throw spaghetti against the wall to see if it was al dente...

[MBayGal]

I can't stand to watch it any more, barely got through 10-15 minutes of ep 1 of this season.  Just here to find out how it ends from people with stronger stomachs than mine😉

[Pallas]

To me, through episode 3, season 5 seems to be spun around the themes of fate and consequences. How when we're young, the stories we hear, intuit and make up about our families inform the people we become. How, as human beings, we can almost willfully ignore the signs of impending disaster, then haplessly lament or course-correct after the fact.

In Joanie's timeline, we see what the show projects as the consequences of heedlessness. There's nothing nifty about needing to grow strawberries indoors, or having your toilet test and spell out the results of your sample, every time. Nothing cool about hating the very idea of making your own children. But here we are, says the show, because of what we did and didn't do, decades before. Because the only one thing we knew how to do was to be the way that we are, and then, sink back into the ocean.

So it wasn't just Alison. And back in the last century, it also wasn't only Alison who was forced to make up her own mind about who and where she came from. Alison was told that her father could be anyone, by the mother who disappeared and re-appeared under a new name. But Cole's father disappeared, re-appeared, then committed suicide "out of the blue," leaving behind a family and the family ranch. Noah's mother was mortally ill throughout his adolescence and finally asked him to help her commit suicide, so that they both could escape. Helen had it lot easier in many ways, hindered mostly by two parents off serving on the front lines of a permanent war with one another. 

Ten years ago, Noah and Alison had an affair that "ended" two marriages and one family, leading to two other marriages and one re-made family, as well as Joanie Stormborn. Joanie, whose mother gave birth to her alone in a nor'easter like the night she died; fathered first by Noah and then by Cole, mothered by Alison, then Luisa, then both, then...?  Joanie, who has good reason to believe that her elders did her wrong: that her father's father was a runaway who came back to kill himself; that her mother's mother was a runaway who came back to leave again; that her mother let her first child drown, left Joanie's father, and left Joanie to go drown herself. 

Meanwhile, to Joanie, their legacy is a whole world created by what happens when people don't take care of what matters most. She may scorn her elders for calling the consequences "fate," but that's also what her heart narrates about the undertow within her.  She just thinks of it as neurochemistry, and not the gods' caprice.

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

To me, through episode 3, season 5 seems to be spun around the themes of fate and consequences. How when we're young, the stories we hear, intuit and make up about our families inform the people we become. How, as human beings, we can almost willfully ignore the signs of impending disaster, then haplessly lament or course-correct after the fact.

In Joanie's timeline, we see what the show projects as the consequences of heedlessness. There's nothing nifty about needing to grow strawberries indoors, or having your toilet test and spell out the results of your sample, every time. Nothing cool about hating the very idea of making your own children. But here we are, says the show, because of what we did and didn't do, decades before. Because the only one thing we knew how to do was to be the way that we are, and then, sink back into the ocean.

So it wasn't just Alison. And back in the last century, it also wasn't only Alison who was forced to make up her own mind about who and where she came from. Alison was told that her father could be anyone, by the mother who disappeared and re-appeared under a new name. But Cole's father disappeared, re-appeared, then committed suicide "out of the blue," leaving behind a family and the family ranch. Noah's mother was mortally ill throughout his adolescence and finally asked him to help her commit suicide, so that they both could escape. Helen had it lot easier in many ways, hindered mostly by two parents off serving on the front lines of a permanent war with one another. 

Ten years ago, Noah and Alison had an affair that "ended" two marriages and one family, leading to two other marriages and one re-made family, as well as Joanie Stormborn. Joanie, whose mother gave birth to her alone in a nor'easter like the night she died; fathered first by Noah and then by Cole, mothered by Alison, then Luisa, then both, then...?  Joanie, who has good reason to believe that her elders did her wrong: that her father's father was a runaway who came back to kill himself; that her mother's mother was a runaway who came back to leave again; that her mother let her first child drown, left Joanie's father, and left Joanie to go drown herself. 

Meanwhile, to Joanie, their legacy is a whole world created by what happens when people don't take care of what matters most. She may scorn her elders for calling the consequences "fate," but that's also what her heart narrates about the undertow within her.  She just thinks of it as neurochemistry, and not the gods' caprice.

Dayum @Pallas, you gave this festering pit latrine of shite way more thought than I ever could! Bravo friend...!

[LoveLeigh]

Maybe an old Ben confesses to Joanie because he is sick and dying anyway. I somehow have a feeling we will see a 35 year old "Eddie." I think we will see an older Whitney too. Maybe Trevor is happily married and in some big Broadway play. 

I just have a feeling we will get a sort of "Six Feet Under" ending and see a very old Noah and Helen. 

[Stad15]

10 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Next week is already episode 5 and Joanie's story is not even developed. I am really getting pissed. I like the show a lot but the Whitney plot is boring for me and the Trevor plot seems shtiky and shoe horned in and Helen is annoying.

If I do not get more Joanie next week I am going to go crazy on twitter. 

According to the synopsis of future episodes (per IMDB) Episodes 6 and 7 will be Joanie-centric.  Catalina Sandino will also be in Episode 7.

[Stad15]

Someone mentioned in youtube comments that they think actor Tony Plana will play an older Ben in Episode 7.  In the season previews, it shows him sitting across from Joanie and holding her hands the way ben did with Alison at the PTSD conference last season (when they leaned about pressure points triggering past trauma.)  He's around the same age Ben would be too.  Tony Plana is listed for Episode 7, but who he plays is not (maybe for spoiler reasons.)

[Razzberry]

Well that's kinda creepy, as are so many things in this show.  Can't see Ben confessing, so I just hope Joanie keeps in mind that true accidents don't require body removal.   However, after seeing her unsentimental hefty bag housecleaning I realized I don't care about her either

[Toodleoo]

35 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

However, after seeing her unsentimental hefty bag housecleaning I realized I don't care about her either

No kidding, those scenes were ice cold and said a lot about her.

[Stad15]

Likely.  If Ben wouldn't confess to Alison that he was married and had kids (despite her trying to get it out of him from Ep 9 last year), I can't see him confessing he  murdered her mother either.  Unless he does because he's dying of an illness anyways or something.

[grommit2]

15 hours ago, Stad15 said:

Likely.  If Ben wouldn't confess to Alison that he was married and had kids (despite her trying to get it out of him from Ep 9 last year), I can't see him confessing he  murdered her mother either.  Unless he does because he's dying of an illness anyways or something.

Guilt.  (1) You did something in the past, (2) ignored your inner-voice that you were doing something wrong at the time.  And step 3?  Do you acknowledge your error, or do you try to ignore it?
This show seems to take the route whereby you never reconcile with your inner-voice that says you should atone, or at least acknowledge your malfeasance.  For example, has Noah ever acknowledged he cheated on his wife and walked out on his family?  Did Cole acknowledge he impregnated Allison (with Joanie), even after their divorce? (did they actually divorce?). Did Alison ever acknowledge she cheated on Cole with Noah (gads...the circle of life here). And Helen, and Margaret, and Whitney, and Helen's father, and... geez...it just seems to be a continuing theme in this show.
In real life, guilt is a crushing burden. Yes, you do go "screaming into the canyon at the moment of your death." 
Hmmm...getting a bit dark here, eh?
 

[Stad15]

1 hour ago, grommit2 said:

Guilt.  (1) You did something in the past, (2) ignored your inner-voice that you were doing something wrong at the time.  And step 3?  Do you acknowledge your error, or do you try to ignore it?
This show seems to take the route whereby you never reconcile with your inner-voice that says you should atone, or at least acknowledge your malfeasance.  For example, has Noah ever acknowledged he cheated on his wife and walked out on his family?  Did Cole acknowledge he impregnated Allison (with Joanie), even after their divorce? (did they actually divorce?). Did Alison ever acknowledge she cheated on Cole with Noah (gads...the circle of life here). And Helen, and Margaret, and Whitney, and Helen's father, and... geez...it just seems to be a continuing theme in this show.
In real life, guilt is a crushing burden. Yes, you do go "screaming into the canyon at the moment of your death." 
Hmmm...getting a bit dark here, eh?
 

There was no "inner voice" telling ben he did something wrong when he killed Alison.  It was spontaneous and in a fit of rage.  He had mental issues.  He had PTSD and started drinking again.

[Stad15]

https://cartermatt.com/379761/the-affair-season-5-spoilers-luisa-is-returning-but-when/

[Stad15]

So Noah will be an old asshole. I assume he'll be in Joanie's timeline too.

[betha]

What the heck is that photo of?

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, betha said:

What the heck is that photo of?

I think it’s a Shar Pei with alopecia...?

[Stad15]

11 hours ago, betha said:

What the heck is that photo of?

90 something year old Noah.  Although he looks like an alien. 😂

Edited September 21, 2019 by Stad15

[Razzberry]

On 9/19/2019 at 10:15 PM, Stad15 said:

Supported by clients coughed up by Furball, 'Whitney's Unwashed Undies' may not be the gallery she dreamed of, but beats answering phones. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Razzberry

[Stad15]

[scrb]

So not having Alison for this season was as catastrophic as we suspected.

We get rando POV segments like the ones for Janelle, Whitney and now Sierra.

Noah and Alison propelled the early seasons of the show, as their actions and pasts affected the people around them and spun off stories about these other characters.

But once they stopped engaging with each other, they tried to add stories about even more peripheral characters like Luisa and whoever Noah was boning at a given time.

Of course their relationship had petered way down by the end of the second or third season -- can't remember which -- but Showtime and the show runner wanted to keep going with it.

So despite the name of the series, they tried to extend it with what were originally supporting characters.  Helen and Cole were the only supporting characters who came to merit more screen time.

But once the main relationships on the show were broken, they had to dig deep to come up with stories so they kept adding character who were like cartoons from the POV of the main characters -- Sierra, Priya, the gay teens, Whitney's circle, etc.

I understand the economics of TV motivate people who make shows to keep it going for at least 5 seasons.  Surely Treem must have had other ideas for shows that she's tried to pitch and sell?

IMDB shows she's working on some Hedy Lamarr mini series.  Who knows, maybe she had a 5-year deal with Showtime so she couldn't try to make another show.  But surely she could have come up with other ideas and be ready to pitch whenever Showtime decided it had enough of The Affair.

And Showtime should have come to that decision at least a couple of seasons ago but they like to keep shows on the air forever -- see Shameless.

[Pallas]

Thanks for the great links and photos, Stad15!  Judging by the shot of Joanie with Ben, I wonder if Joanie makes an appointment with him: ostensibly to receive EFT, but actually, to try to catch him out.  

On 9/19/2019 at 12:54 PM, grommit2 said:

Guilt.  (1) You did something in the past, (2) ignored your inner-voice that you were doing something wrong at the time.  And step 3?  Do you acknowledge your error, or do you try to ignore it?

This show seems to take the route whereby you never reconcile with your inner-voice that says you should atone, or at least acknowledge your malfeasance.

I agree that the show will let us see how Ben has failed to thrive since killing Alison. Back then, though he must have performed as well with the police as he did at the funeral, on his own at work -- without the adrenaline charge -- he looked like hell. I'd be surprised if since then, Ben were able to keep his hold on his marriage, his family or his place in the world: on any of the things that he'd used to excuse himself to himself. Then again, perhaps Ben was far more successful than Alison ever was or wanted to be at playing the victim, and playing it for blood. 

As a predator, Ben may sense in Joanie the same fierce, blind self-destructiveness that took Alison too far before she course-corrected, for good, too late. But Joanie is Cole's daughter too, and Cherry's granddaughter. She's the next generation of the ones who endure, as Cherry reminded her son in the graveyard as they sat in the sun, in the family plot. I think Ben will find that he's met more than his match, whether either of them believe it. 

[LoveLeigh]

My speculation is that EJ is 

Spoiler

Eddie, the son of Sierra and Vic.

[LydiaE]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

My speculation is that EJ is 

  Hide contents

Eddie, the son of Sierra and Vic.

Eww. You could be right. But how would they be connected? If so, EJ definitely lost in the genetics lottery.  His mother was tiny and striking and Vic had amazing bone structure and a medium, fit build.

[Stad15]

He does look a bit ethnic, so yeah maybe.  That would be frikin hilarious though...

[cardigirl]

On 9/23/2019 at 10:56 PM, scrb said:

So not having Alison for this season was as catastrophic as we suspected.

We get rando POV segments like the ones for Janelle, Whitney and now Sierra.

Noah and Alison propelled the early seasons of the show, as their actions and pasts affected the people around them and spun off stories about these other characters.

But once they stopped engaging with each other, they tried to add stories about even more peripheral characters like Luisa and whoever Noah was boning at a given time.

Of course their relationship had petered way down by the end of the second or third season -- can't remember which -- but Showtime and the show runner wanted to keep going with it.

So despite the name of the series, they tried to extend it with what were originally supporting characters.  Helen and Cole were the only supporting characters who came to merit more screen time.

But once the main relationships on the show were broken, they had to dig deep to come up with stories so they kept adding character who were like cartoons from the POV of the main characters -- Sierra, Priya, the gay teens, Whitney's circle, etc.

I understand the economics of TV motivate people who make shows to keep it going for at least 5 seasons.  Surely Treem must have had other ideas for shows that she's tried to pitch and sell?

IMDB shows she's working on some Hedy Lamarr mini series.  Who knows, maybe she had a 5-year deal with Showtime so she couldn't try to make another show.  But surely she could have come up with other ideas and be ready to pitch whenever Showtime decided it had enough of The Affair.

And Showtime should have come to that decision at least a couple of seasons ago but they like to keep shows on the air forever -- see Shameless.

The creators, or at least, Treem, always hoped for 5 seasons for this show. She talked about that from the very start. 

I understand that your mileage varies, but I haven’t found this season to be catastrophic in the least. In fact, had the show not grown to include other characters, but had remained with the original main “four,” I think it would have stagnated. 

Looking forward to the final four episodes. 

[scrb]

The guy is a professional stalker of the Lockharts.

So he has personal reasons for stalking Joanie?  It wasn’t an accident that they ran into each other?

Otherwise it would be a plot gimmick.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

My speculation is that EJ is 

  Hide contents

Eddie, the son of Sierra and Vic.

There is no way this turns out to be not true. NONE. 

Never change, show. Never change.

[chocolatine]

Until EJ said that his father died before he was born, I was sure that he was Oscar's kid. Same dweeby personality, and way too invested in other people's business. But Oscar was alive as of last season, so unless there's a retcon, EJ can't be his kid. As to the speculation that EJ is Eddie, technically Vik was still alive when Eddie was born. And why would Eddie become obsessed with the Lockharts of Montauk if he grew up in LA and doesn't have any relationship to them at all? Even if he had a relationship with Helen growing up, I doubt she talked about the Lockharts much.

I feel bad for Joanie's husband.

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

There is no way this turns out to be not true. NONE. 

Another clue is that EJ said: 

Spoiler

his father died right after he was born or right before he was born or something like that.  And then he told Joanie he could show her a picture of his mother, and I was thinking the photo will be Sierra. Also, his love of movies is another clue because his mom and grandma were actors. Another poster said she thought EJ is Oscar's kid, but I disagree with that. I think EJ is Eddie. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[scrb]

Even if that's how it turns out, it would be dumb.

So EJ has been stalking Joanie most of his life?

That just means these messed up people gave birth to and raised more messed up people.

Hell, why don't they have Joanie hook up with one of Noah's sons or EJ can hook up with one of Noah's daughters, since stepbrother or stepsister porn is such a thing?

Joanie has been self-destructive, suicidal as she admits.  Then she finally dismantles her family and to put the cherry on top, the writers have her hooking with EJ?  Six degrees of separation and all that but stupid nevertheless.

Now if EJ wasn't interested in her but mentioned to her who his parents were (if that turns out to be the case) and that fact made Joanie sleep with him, then yeah it would be another way to show how screwed up Joanie is.

[LoveLeigh]

I do not think the writers were going for all the psychological stuff with EJ. I think it was more that they were building a "This is Us" type of surprise into the plot. 

[scrb]

16 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I do not think the writers were going for all the psychological stuff with EJ. I think it was more that they were building a "This is Us" type of surprise into the plot. 

Like I said, plot gimmick.

[preeya]

6 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

his father died right after he was born or right before he was born or something like that.

[nara]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Until EJ said that his father died before he was born, I was sure that he was Oscar's kid. Same dweeby personality, and way too invested in other people's business. But Oscar was alive as of last season, so unless there's a retcon, EJ can't be his kid. As to the speculation that EJ is Eddie, technically Vik was still alive when Eddie was born. And why would Eddie become obsessed with the Lockharts of Montauk if he grew up in LA and doesn't have any relationship to them at all? Even if he had a relationship with Helen growing up, I doubt she talked about the Lockharts much.

I feel bad for Joanie's husband.

If EJ is Eddie, then I think it’s more likely that his interest in the Lockharts is a coincidence, not some link that he feels. The issue I have is that I don’t think the actor looks 7-8 years younger than Joanie. Off to IMDB I go... However, I would prefer him to be a random guy. 

I do like his theory about trauma...

Everyone throws themselves at Joanie...Are we sure she isn’t really Noah’s child?

Overall, this is the only episode this season that I have enjoyed. Still not a fan of the random sex, but I did like the mystery.  I appreciated the flashbacks and seeing Luisa again, but the voice of Alison was a little jarring IMO.

Btw, Luisa sweetie, when your face is that wrinkled, you can probably stop dying your hair. That was odd looking. 

[LoveLeigh]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

Spoiler

Sierra could have bended the truth and told him it was right before he was born instead of saying it was 10 minutes or so after he was born. 

[preeya]

43 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

  Hide contents

Sierra could have bended the truth and told him it was right before he was born instead of saying it was 10 minutes or so after he was born. 

I wasn't contradicting, I was just pointing out. I also think this theory is very plausible.

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

I wasn't contradicting, I was just pointing out. I also think this theory is very plausible.

Spoiler

I know, I was just offering an explanation. It will be interesting to find out why EJ is so interested in the Lockharts. Did Sierra pass at some point and was he adopted by the Solloways? Did he learn about "The Affair" and go out to Montauk to snoop around? Something drew EJ (whoever he turns out to be) to that location. 

[LoveLeigh]

OMG I had a thought. I acknowledge it makes no sense. But, here it is: 

Spoiler

Could EJ be a son of Ben Cruz? Did he know his father killed Alison and was he lurking around for the day Joanie might come to investigate Alison's death? He led her right to the police files. Was that a trap? Did he want to see if she would pursue the case? Is he waiting for a chance to kill her and will this time Joanie kill him? Will Joanie change the story? Was EJ lying when he said his father died? Maybe EJ is just a real creeper. 

Then again, EJ did say he studied drama so maybe he is Eddie. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by DakotaLavender