S03.E01: Chapter 20

[AimingforYoko]

Quote

David gains a following.

The nice thing about final seasons is that the showrunners do pretty much whatever they want. It's pretty obvious Hawley is leaning hard into the weird this season. That opening was one of the strangest on this show. And for this show, that's saying something. Should pretty much get rid of any casual watchers of the show.

In other news, Cary and Kerry are still awesome. (Nice way to get Ptonomy back on the show) Lenny/Amy's still crazy. And I don't trust Amahl any farther than I could throw him.

[Frost]

I'm still trying to figure out how David could be considered the villain.  His former colleagues come across a pretty cold blooded.  They agreed to kill the time traveler pretty dang readily.   There didn't seem to be much angst about the bloodshed they were about to unleash.

And I'm still befuddled about how they came to trust Farouk so easily.  He seems to be 100% accepted as a team member.

These two things cause me much more confusion than anything the director threw at me this episode.

[SimoneS]

Why is this show so horrible? Why? There was nothing else on and this is the last season so I decided to give it a chance. That was 60+ minutes of my life wasted that I will never get back. I will give the showrunners credit for getting rich on this dreck for three seasons. 

[showme]

48 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Why is this show so horrible? Why? There was nothing else on and this is the last season so I decided to give it a chance. That was 60+ minutes of my life wasted that I will never get back. I will give the showrunners credit for getting rich on this dreck for three seasons. 

This is the kind of show you use as background when you doing household chores. I ate some fruit, cleaned my kitchen and preped for tomorrow's breakfast while keep an eye on this show. You don't dedicate your time for this.

49 minutes ago, Frost said:

I'm still trying to figure out how David could be considered the villain.  His former colleagues come across a pretty cold blooded.  They agreed to kill the time traveler pretty dang readily.   There didn't seem to be much angst about the bloodshed they were about to unleash.

And I'm still befuddled about how they came to trust Farouk so easily.  He seems to be 100% accepted as a team member.

These two things cause me much more confusion than anything the director threw at me this episode.

Tell me about it, the storyline doesn't make any sense! I hope David kill them all, including that so-called ex-girlfriend, she is trash.

About the ending, I guess the time traveler finally succeeded in warning David? She is pretty, but her Chinese is terrible.

Edited June 25, 2019 by showme

[AnimeMania]

At first, I thought the regulars were not going to make an appearance at all during this episode. I am not really a fan of time travel since you can pretty much have infinite do-overs until you get the outcome you want. I thought David was strong enough to fight Division 3 by himself, with a little help from his Lenny. David shouldn't need a time travel crutch.

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, Frost said:

I'm still trying to figure out how David could be considered the villain.  His former colleagues come across a pretty cold blooded.  They agreed to kill the time traveler pretty dang readily.   There didn't seem to be much angst about the bloodshed they were about to unleash.

And I'm still befuddled about how they came to trust Farouk so easily.  He seems to be 100% accepted as a team member.

These two things cause me much more confusion than anything the director threw at me this episode.

Me too.  I thought maybe I forgot something.  I may still have, but this took me by surprise.  Besides that, I am intrigued by the actor though. 

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

At first, I thought the regulars were not going to make an appearance at all during this episode. I am not really a fan of time travel since you can pretty much have infinite do-overs until you get the outcome you want. I thought David was strong enough to fight Division 3 by himself, with a little help from his Lenny. David shouldn't need a time travel crutch.

Same.  When the episode started I was interested in where this was going.  Then it kept going. and going.  So, then my attention started waning. 

I know this show isn't the greatest, but I always watch this with full attention just for the visuals.  They are freaky and strange but also so pretty to look at.  

[showme]

The plot is full of holes. If David can't handle a bunch of amateur villains from Division 3, how can he destroy the world? The writers have run out of ideas and senses!

Edited June 25, 2019 by showme

[Frost]

18 minutes ago, showme said:

If David can't handle a bunch of amateur villains from Division 3, how can he destroy the world?

That's a good point.  Last season I thought the rest of the Scooby gang believed Syd's visions too easily.  It was like they were looking for a reason to distrust David. Hmmmm.  Farouk's influence?  According to Farouk's new besties, of course not!  Like I said before, very weird.

I did love how time traveler (did we ever learn her name?) was perfectly OK interacting with her dad via TV and getting time traveling lessons on a Walkman, but was visibly freaked out hearing that David had been in a mental institution.  Snerk.  Girl, you have no idea!

[AnimeMania]

At first I thought time travel girl was from the future, traveling back to visit the past. It appears she can easily travel back in time a few hours, as many times as she likes. It seems weird that she is just now listening to the tape about how to use her powers, I think they wrote it that way so we could learn about her powers. It might have made more sense if she was remembering the time travel rules in her head, rather than listening to them on her headphones.

[justmehere]

This show has always required time to unfold. It has always been pretty far out there, as well, so I don't understand the surprise at its form. Personally, I'm riveted because the tiny details can make a big difference in understanding.

I'm glad to see they found a way to bring Ptonomy back. Last season, it seemed like they'd forgotten about him, so, I'm glad they haven't. (Speaking of last season, it played much better on re-watch without a week's delay between episodes.)  

No Melanie this episode. I hope we're going to see her coherent and involved this season. 

The team sided with Farouk because they believe David will destroy the world, and Farouk is supposedly the only one who can stop him. Cary realized that, at some point in the future, he built that sphere/drone thing and sent it back to capture David (at the end of Season 1). Because of that, he assumed - and convinced the others - that David must have done something truly terrible that warranted capture. When he then saw David manipulate Syd (wiping her memory), he jumped right to "treachery" and mobilized everyone. By putting David on trial, they ensured that he would turn against them. Trusting Farouk made little sense, even so. (Especially now that they simply went in with a tactical team and Syd shot him. I'd guess that they needed Farouk to locate David, though he admits having trouble doing so.)

David didn't sense the team coming because Cary gave them headbands to block their brain waves so that David couldn't tune in. He can handle them, as we saw twice when he disintegrated them all. Except Syd, who shot him. Not sure why she got through.

Don't know yet why he needs a time traveler, unless some future version of himself put out the call, knowing after the fact what would happen and needing her so he could even get to that point. I loved that he moved the whole facility. Take that, you betraying idiots.

What I find interesting so far is that the team expects an explosive, reactive David, and yet he has created a rather 60s-ish commune and seems quite peaceful. And, he's still talking about needing love. End of last season, he kept saying how he deserved love (it's the reason he manipulated Syd - wrong though it was), and so that's what he created, for himself, with no apparent need for retaliation against his former friends. That we've seen. Yet. Actually, they're the explosive, reactive ones, working within their own self-created loop.

Still much to unfold, I'm sure.

[tennisgurl]

This show is so nuts balls and so trippy, it actually took me a second for it to really sink in that Division literally have an old timie vaudevillian hook they use to grab people. I dont know why that stood out for me in the midst of all the crazy, but it did. 

This show has never really been plot heavy, its about crazy visuals and ideas and seeing what bizarre stuff it can stick on screen. Granted, it would be nice to find more of the balance between the weird and the plot, but I cant be too mad at a show that starts out in a trippy hippie magic laundry department complete with sing along. 

Who can even tell when people are time traveling, when this show is basically set in every year between 1957-2019? 

Nice to finally see the cast near the end, but I do hope we get to see more of how we got here. They seem to be pretty much down to kill David and his hippie commune, and while I get them wanting to figure out whats going on with reality warping and power tripping David, but he seems to be just chilling in his hippie compound not really bothering anyone. And I get that they are all convinced that David is going to destroy the world, but is everyone, even Syd (who keeps freaking shooting him!) just totally cool with killing him and everyone else with him? Seems like overkill. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

This show is so nuts balls and so trippy, it actually took me a second for it to really sink in that Division literally have an old timie vaudevillian hook they use to grab people. I dont know why that stood out for me in the midst of all the crazy, but it did. 

This show has never really been plot heavy, its about crazy visuals and ideas and seeing what bizarre stuff it can stick on screen. Granted, it would be nice to find more of the balance between the weird and the plot, but I cant be too mad at a show that starts out in a trippy hippie magic laundry department complete with sing along. 

Who can even tell when people are time traveling, when this show is basically set in every year between 1957-2019? 

Nice to finally see the cast near the end, but I do hope we get to see more of how we got here. They seem to be pretty much down to kill David and his hippie commune, and while I get them wanting to figure out whats going on with reality warping and power tripping David, but he seems to be just chilling in his hippie compound not really bothering anyone. And I get that they are all convinced that David is going to destroy the world, but is everyone, even Syd (who keeps freaking shooting him!) just totally cool with killing him and everyone else with him? Seems like overkill. 

Yeah I would assume there will be blanks for them to fill in about how it reached the point where his former enemies and allies banded together to decide David must be ended, with extreme prejudice, no capturing or anything,

And it looked like in the rewind scenes, in other parts of the commune the soldiers are taking liberties, like didn't some of the girls get dragged into a room?

And yes, season 2 really didn't go too far plot-wise.  Just seemed like the same primal struggle with David and the Shadow King, told repeatedly in different visual styles.

Some of the imagery is striking, like the big-headed monsters of season 1.  But I kind of suspect that after this show is over, it will be images and idiosyncratic visual design which remain with those who watch the series, not so much the story elements or the characters.

[scrb]

16 hours ago, Frost said:

I did love how time traveler (did we ever learn her name?) was perfectly OK interacting with her dad via TV and getting time traveling lessons on a Walkman, but was visibly freaked out hearing that David had been in a mental institution.  Snerk.  Girl, you have no idea!

This is really an affectation.

They show some fusion of retro industrial design or devices which have capabilities way beyond what's possible now.  So there are things which look like they're from the '60s but can do things which no technology from our present can do.

I'm thinking especially of a lot of the things in Cary's lab.

But this Chinese girl would FaceTime with her father on these big hulking CRT TVs which they'd have to wheel in and out.

Quaint but nonsensical.  If you use analog transmission technology to send video signals back and forth, it would be prohibitively expensive.  You'd need TV stations at both ends essentially.  And if they're hundreds of miles or more apart, they'd need to uplink them to a satellite and back down.

Using video chat apps. but sending the signals to old TVs would be possible but there would have to be digital to analog converters which output these old TV transmission signal formats, which I don't know if they were ever made.

Of course Legion takes place in a world that resembles ours but isn't really.

However when she was following the breadcrumbs, in one shot, it showed in the background the Hong Kong skyline, so it's our world but maybe in some alternate timeline.

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, scrb said:

Of course Legion takes place in a world that resembles ours but isn't really.

I always assumed that this takes place in an alternate X-Men universe, where mutants exist alongside all of this bizarre technology, groups, and design in a kind of 60s/00s mashup of a time period. Its like our world, or even the world of the rest of the X-Men or the Marvel universe, but not quite. In the comics there are billions of universe out there with similar characters and powers to each other, but in different settings or things happen differently and such, so thats what I usually think this show is.

Edited June 26, 2019 by tennisgurl

[AnimeMania]

8 hours ago, scrb said:

And it looked like in the rewind scenes, in other parts of the commune the soldiers are taking liberties, like didn't some of the girls get dragged into a room?

Not sure if it is liberties so much as being an overpowering force, men vs women, well-trained athletic solders vs drugged out hippies, armed vs unarmed, tactical armor vs tie-dyed muumuu. Rather than killing everyone they see, they just drag them out of the way, so the main force can proceed towards their objective. They are really only after one target, the only one that poses any threat. All the rest can be handled with a big hook and pulled off of the stage.

[Bruinsfan]

Except that it's entirely possible "Switch" isn't the only fellow mutant among the people David's recruiting.

I thought the conversation between the two was happening either on the Astral Plane or inside one of their minds, thus the two Davids that Switch could see and some of the more phantasmagoric imagery of her entry into the commune. I was really surprised when David''s arm was lopped off, and it was revealed Division 3 was there physically rather than being astral projections of same or illusions Farouk brought with him.

[rmontro]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:03 PM, AimingforYoko said:

That opening was one of the strangest on this show. And for this show, that's saying something

I thought the episode had more clarity than usual.  In other seasons, I would spend the first 3-5 episodes confused until eventually it became clear what was going on.  It's the end of episode one, and I feel like I know what is going on.  That's unusual.  We don't know the background of the time traveler girl, but that's not particularly troubling in a world with mutants.

On 6/25/2019 at 12:05 AM, showme said:

This is the kind of show you use as background when you doing household chores. I ate some fruit, cleaned my kitchen and preped for tomorrow's breakfast while keep an eye on this show. You don't dedicate your time for this.

I've actually always thought that this was one of those shows that you have to pay attention to. 

On 6/25/2019 at 1:18 AM, AnimeMania said:

I thought David was strong enough to fight Division 3 by himself

Agreed.  How hard is it to form a bullet proof bubble around himself, like the Invisible Girl from the Fantastic Four?  He kept leaving himself open from the rear.

[showme]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I've actually always thought that this was one of those shows that you have to pay attention to.  

Apparently not.

[kieyra]

After reading the first few posts here I figured that was it for me and this show (time travel is one of my least favorite plot devices), but I happened to check out the TV Club's take on it:

https://tv.avclub.com/legions-final-season-begins-by-traveling-through-time-t-1835811918

... and damned if they didn't seem to pull a coherent narrative out of it. I'm always aggravated to discover that one exists behind all the mind-trip stuff. This isn't the kind of show I usually watch, I mostly like 'reality' to provide a solid framework for character moments. But I will grudgingly give Hawley his due. I had the same conclusion at the end of season one, when it all clicked together. Season 2 was, of course, a downer. And I really don't care for Farouk at all. But I guess I'm giving season 3 a go now, at least for Aubrey Plaza. 

[Terrafamilia]

The most disturbing thing this episode was the giant sow from which some of the hippie-dippies were suckling.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, kieyra said:

After reading the first few posts here I figured that was it for me and this show (time travel is one of my least favorite plot devices)

The short term time traveling seems like a fresh wrinkle on it though.  I'm sure someone else must have done it, but most stories usually go with the long term.

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, her power seems more like an intentional Groundhog Day rewind than the usual treatment of time travel where there would now be two of her doing different things.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 6/26/2019 at 2:45 PM, Bruinsfan said:

I was really surprised when David''s arm was lopped off, and it was revealed Division 3 was there physically rather than being astral projections of same or illusions Farouk brought with him.

The Avengers could have used Cary's arm-lopping ability in Infinity War.

[superloislane]

I felt like I was tripping just watching this episode.

I love Switch - she's everything

Hey how do we bring back Ptonomy from death and that weird place we put his mind in last season? I know! We'll create a robot version of him! But this time...with a moustache.

David's 'friends' teamed up with the guy who murdered his sister and tortured him for 30 years because of a possibility of David doing something. It still doesn't make sense to me why they would trust Farouk so much. I want David to kill all of them and I feel no shame about it.

I'm still not even sure what the show is trying to say because Division 3 very much seem like the bad guys here even though they think they're the good guys. I mean maybe they'll show that David did some messed up things before this but right now, David has created a peace and love hippie commune because he wants love and they don't seem to be doing anything bad to anyone while Division 3 are coming in killing everybody and flippantly state they'll kill a teenage girl. David definitely doesn't look like the villain here.

I feel like they made David appear weaker than he should be because they wanted Divison 3 to look like a threat. When really, David should be able to turn them all inside out with a thought.

This episode was a real return to form after the incredibly lacklustre season 2 which tried to be weird for weird's sake. I hope it continues to be a good final season - I want this show to go out with a bang and not a whimper.

Edited June 30, 2019 by superloislane

[Miles]

I still call bullshit on them trusting Farouk. Remember, this isn't a new thing. He was running around freely at the end of last season.

Somehow they trust a mass murderer, mass torturer and mass rapist over their old friend, because some future tart said he was going to destroy the world. In some timeline that is probably never going to happen.

Also even if they think David is going to destroy the world, they should never trust Farouk. There should be a bomb implanted in his skull and even then I wouldn't fully trust him.

[Catfi9ht]

I'm late to the party as usual, but I figured I'd post anyway.

I agree with everyone that it doesn't make sense Div3 would trust Farouk and not David. Plot wise, arresting both of them would have made more sense. I also agree they haven't really done a good job of giving David the anti-hero treatment. However (for me at least), I think it's because Dan Stevens is so damn charming that David comes across as more sympathetic.

But, because this is the last season and because I've hated most of what I've watched lately, I'm just going to accept this show's narrative on Farouk and Div3 so I don't let that minor detail affect how I watch this season.

For me, this show's plot and visual effects are so unique that I want to fully appreciate watching it since this is the final season. I'm still blown away that a show like this is, not only on tv, but has lasted more than one season and will finish it's narrative unscathed.

This was a strong season opener for me. I loved the one-shot down the hallway and am interested in where the plot is going.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:41 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The Avengers could have used Cary's arm-lopping ability in Infinity War.

Sorry; I meant Kerry.

[AudienceofOne]

My main takeaway from S2 was that Fahrouk was entirely a product of David's mind - an idea planted that bloomed - and I'm not ready yet to let go of that assessment.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:18 PM, Frost said:

I'm still trying to figure out how David could be considered the villain.  His former colleagues come across a pretty cold blooded.  They agreed to kill the time traveler pretty dang readily.   There didn't seem to be much angst about the bloodshed they were about to unleash.

And I'm still befuddled about how they came to trust Farouk so easily.  He seems to be 100% accepted as a team member.

There were a lot of words written about this at last year's finale, which I re-read in preparation for this season. I think it was hashed out then and basically came down to - they were never David's friends, never trusted him, have always feared him and have always treated him like a nuke. You're happy for nukes to exist as long as you're the only one with nukes. Once you're not, you're 110% Team Disarmament. 

I'm not sure yet how I feel about the 'robot' theme but it fits with how the team saw him - they wanted him to be a robot, a tool. Instead he was a person.

On 6/25/2019 at 1:18 PM, SimoneS said:

Why is this show so horrible? Why? There was nothing else on and this is the last season so I decided to give it a chance. That was 60+ minutes of my life wasted that I will never get back. I will give the showrunners credit for getting rich on this dreck for three seasons. 

On 6/25/2019 at 2:05 PM, showme said:

This is the kind of show you use as background when you doing household chores. I ate some fruit, cleaned my kitchen and preped for tomorrow's breakfast while keep an eye on this show. You don't dedicate your time for this.

I guess this is where we politely "agree to disagree" and I don't sputter in confusion, either at the idea the show is horrible or that you can watch it without paying minute attention to every frame.