Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[kellog010]

@elle

I think Nicole being HOH takes away her chance to vote. If Holly was HOH, Cliff and Nicole are on the block. One wins veto, Jackson goes up and out and one of Cliff, Nicole control vote.

With Nicole HOH, Cliff is only potential voter so the odds for Jackson and Holly to control the vote are greater. 

[Brian Cronin]

I think that the odds are actually the same, no? They would have a 50/50 shot of controlling the vote had Holly won HoH and they have a 50/50 shot of controlling the vote with her NOT winning the HoH. 

The only difference is that Holly would have had safety had she won HoH. 

Which is why it is clearly in Jackson's best interest for Holly to NOT win HoH, since the odds of them controlling the vote remain the same, but if they lose their 50/50 shot, he would have to be eliminated if Holly had won HoH while he has a very good chance now of remaining no matter what (although, again, obviously he'd prefer to have Holly with him in Final 3). 

[Growsonwalls]

So Cliff now wants to throw veto so Jackson can evict Holly. I can’t. 

[Brian Cronin]

13 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

So Cliff now wants to throw veto so Jackson can evict Holly. I can’t. 

He's just...just...wow. 

[Ellee]

46 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

So Cliff now wants to throw veto so Jackson can evict Holly. I can’t. 

Cliff must have been really out of it to come up with that one. SMH. Since I can’t see these discussions, does Jackson have some kind of tell when he’s lying that Cliff may be picking up and I am not?

ETA:  other than his lips are moving. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Ellee

[Ellee]

I know Nicole talks to the cameras. Not sure about Holly.  Has either girl said anything out loud about the two men pushing their own best interest and not the girls?

And do you think Cliff really would put his game on the line to throw the VETO?  He isn’t a stupid man. Or is he?

[Michichick]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

So Cliff now wants to throw veto so Jackson can evict Holly. I can’t. 

Jesus, he is dumb.

[Growsonwalls]

Cliff is convinced Snackson will take him to the f2 over Holly. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Katesus7 said:

But I’ve been all in on Nicole for awhile, and her best shot is against Holly, so hopefully she can get that last HOH, boot Jackson to really boost her resume, and take this thing.

Imagine though if she won final HOH and then took Jackson. LOL! And I really don't trust her to not do that tbh. 

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

So Cliff now wants to throw veto so Jackson can evict Holly. I can’t. 

Do it, Cliff! I need Jackson to win veto so very badly. Prayer circle!

[kellog010]

To clarify, Holly not winning HOH maximized Jackson's odds. Yes, it's still a 50/50 shot at veto, but with Holly HOH there is no target in front of Jackson as Cliff or Nicole will not vote each other out. If Jackson or Holly do not win veto and they are both on the block, then Jackson has Nicole and Cliff snowed into keeping him for F3 and clipping Holly. 

[Pass the Tequila]

I wonder why they didn't show even a whiff of the Jackson/Holly tension on the last episode? If I hadn't of read about their spats here, I would think everything is fine between them. I don't get it.

[missyb]

Where the HG's are in the game today is a perfect example of why the game is 14 days too long ( or, maybe an example of why it is so long !). There are no more deals to be made with this final 4. You are each a duo.

Cliff has played a near perfect game. He assessed his position in the game and the part he wanted to play. Win a few things so they dont discard you as the old guy right away. Be a vote for someone. WIllingness to work with others. Remain calm and collected no matter what happens. Dont lose your cool or your grip.

Until now! Now the effects of the house are taking a toll.

Unlike Nicole, who has accepted the fact that Holly and Jackson no longer are going to trust them or honor anything, Cliff has made himself believe that they will.
CLIFF !! Its BIg Brother and Jackson is a great player. He has set you up perfectly . Why would you think they would sacrifice themselves for you ??? Because JAckson has been preaching loyalty? So did you until you were willing to break the F4 deal. If you can do it, they certainly have more reason.

Holly is now bemoaning the fact she did not win the HOH, which she probably would have. You should be crying over it. Winning would have been playing your own game. Instead, you gave up your guaranteed spot.

The house really plays on your mind !! The most logical of people start to lose it!

[Nashville]

59 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

If Jackson or Holly do not win veto and they are both on the block, then Jackson has Nicole and Cliff snowed into keeping him for F3 and clipping Holly. 

I... do not know about that.

I mean, I’ve heard what both Nicole and Cliff have said to Jackson - but I don’t know that I’d be taking ANYBODY’s word at face value at this juncture of the season.  At this point I kind of automatically assume everybody is blowing the thickest black smoke they can generate up everybody else’s collective asses, to claw their way to that F3 comp.

Also - none of these people are necessarily stupid.

[Brian Cronin]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I... do not know about that.

I mean, I’ve heard what both Nicole and Cliff have said to Jackson - but I don’t know that I’d be taking ANYBODY’s word at face value at this juncture of the season.  At this point I kind of automatically assume everybody is blowing the thickest black smoke they can generate up everybody else’s collective asses, to claw their way to that F3 comp.

Also - none of these people are necessarily stupid.

Cliff said it to Nicole. Why would he be lying to Nicole about saving Jackson?

And honestly, from Cliff's perspective, saving Jackson makes more sense because he knows he won't be winning the final HoH (and if he DOES, then it doesn't matter, of course, as he'd just take Nicole) and he knows Holly wouldn't bring him, while he thinks Jackson MIGHT, so of course he'd prefer to keep Jackson. 

[missyb]

Last night, Nicole asked Cliff to shake hands that if she won veto, Cliff would evict whichever one SHE chose. And, Nicole feels she owes it to Holly to keep her ( also better fore her game, wink wink)

They are looking at this as a loophole.

[LGGirl]

2 minutes ago, missyb said:

Unlike Nicole, who has accepted the fact that Holly and Jackson no longer are going to trust them or honor anything, Cliff has made himself believe that they will.

Cliff’s desire to be Jackson’s bro has clouded his judgement.  

Jackson is very good at tapping to what his fellow houseguests need/want to hear.  He is a master manipulator.  I don’t think he would ever choose Cliff over Holly.  Never.   He will choose Holly to the end.  Why?  First it up his chances for future opportunities.   Second, if Holly does win, he will stick to her like glue, hoping for her to pass on some of the wealth.  So, even if he does lose to Holly, he wins.   

But, he might have manipulated himself out of $500k with his gameplay to boot Tommy.   Let Tommy fester a bit in the jury house.   Let him get bitter.  Let Christie work on the rest to be just as bitter.   I can manifest this.  

[Nashville]

48 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Cliff said it to Nicole. Why would he be lying to Nicole about saving Jackson?

So Nicole can’t slip up and reveal Cliff’s true intentions to Jackson, maybe?  Nicole can’t reveal what she doesn’t know.

Quote

And honestly, from Cliff's perspective, saving Jackson makes more sense because he knows he won't be winning the final HoH (and if he DOES, then it doesn't matter, of course, as he'd just take Nicole) and he knows Holly wouldn't bring him, while he thinks Jackson MIGHT, so of course he'd prefer to keep Jackson. 

But from Cliff’s perspective it doesn’t really matter whether or not Jackson takes Cliff to F2, unless Cliff is playing for 2nd place money - because unless they’re drowning in the waters of the River Denial, there’s no way Cliff OR Nicole OR Holly can think they’re beating Jackson at F2.  

Or is there a vote-stack here I’m not getting?

ETA:

Holy shit.  Went to Joker’s and read some of Cliff’s camera-comments to his wife (which I’m guessing are the closest to gospel truth we can take in this House).  Apparently Cliff actually believes in all these nonsensical deals he’s been cooking all over the place.  I thought Cliff had better sense than that.  😞 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Nashville

[Ellee]

Saw this at Jokers. 

I read there but don't post.  It was posted by TampaFLmom.

ETA:  Crap, it's only 1 bit.  Will see if I can get the rest or if someone else can, I'd appreciate it. 

Note:  Jack calling it his house, I mean, the jury house.  And Analyse is standing in back and not sitting next to Jack.   Kat is.  Hmmm.

ETA:  OK, this was a waste of time.  Sorry.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Ellee

[jay741982]

18 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I'm less impressed when I take into account that a weird forced pressure cooker situation (the Big Brother house itself) is what led to this sudden discovery that there was people in the world aside from Jackson's mommy, the girls he fucks and dumps, and the produce clerk that puts out the watermelons. Oh, and the kids he helped haze in his fraternity in college. Sure, the house makes him look at things differently - in the house, not necessarily when he leaves the house. 

Did we all forget that it was Jackson that slammed the door in Nicole's face during that disgusting bash session in the HoH room? Sure, he apologized for it. Because he needed Nicole as a number at the time because the Six were putting him and Holly out with the trash. Sure, he's nice to Nicole still. It doesn't change the fact that if it wasn't for the Six deciding to dump him and Holly, he probably still wouldn't have given her the time of day in the house. 

Nah, Jackson's still a piece of shit. He's just a piece of shit with a good feel for when he needs to change his image to best suit his goals. 

I'mma just rain on everybody's parade today. You're right, Holly did seem less engaged in the bashing and did say she felt horrible about it. But she also said that for game reasons, she had to let it happen. I know, we (in general) have this debate every season: do you throw away your game - potentially - to stand up for what's right? Or do you essentially rubber stamp the shitty behaviour and keep your mouth shut because gaaaame? 

Holly may not have encouraged it but she also did nothing to stop it. 

Holly also spent plenty of time bashing Sis Christie Kat behind their backs calling them Cunts among other things. Shes also called Nicole names 

[PhoneCop]

8 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I can't get over how much of this season has revolved around Christie's terrible (TERRIBLE) big game moves.

Surprise twist: Christie was the Saboteur. They finally got that idea to work...but not telling the audience about it.

[missyb]

1 hour ago, Ellee said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2Xf-KmJuLg/

Saw this at Jokers. 

I read there but don't post.  It was posted by TampaFLmom.

ETA:  Crap, it's only 1 bit.  Will see if I can get the rest or if someone else can, I'd appreciate it.  Sorry....I can't do it. 

Note:  Jack calling it his house, I mean, the jury house.  And Analyse is standing in back and not sitting next to Jack.   Kat is.  Hmmm.

They do Big Brother superlatives. Interestingly enough, Nicole is never mentioned. 

[Callaphera]

11 hours ago, Katesus7 said:

And Jess, again, for putting up Jack and Jackson and not giving a fuck about it.

Jess had the best HoH week of the entire game. Not only because of her don't give a fuckness in taking the first shot at the Six and it sticking which turned the tide against them, but it also gave us great moments such as Jack moping in bed, and Nicole and Kat acting like giggly girls at a sleepover, and Jack moping in the boat room, and Jess evicted the sex stool from the shower, and Jack moping in the backyard, and that weird sex fort they tried to build, and Jack moping in the kitchen. 

The only thing that would have made it better was if Analyse had been a chicken that week.

[Lady Calypso]

So, in terms of who I want to win veto today, I feel like there are good options for any of them to win.

Nicole winning means Jackson leaves, and that's fantastic for Nicole's game.

Cliff winning means Holly leaves, which means Cliff not only potentially screws himself out of $500,000, but it shows that he's a coward for going to F2 with someone like Jackson. But, if Nicole wins final HOH and boots Jackson, she absolutely pulls out a win so....not a bad idea for Cliff to win veto and boot Holly (again, only if Nicole wins final HOH).

Holly or Jackson winning veto means that Cliff has to come to the realization that his game is over. 

Ultimately, I'm rooting for a Nicole win, since that ensures her spot in F2. A Cliff win could be fantastic under the right circumstances. A Holly or Jackson win is entertaining as Cliff is the one who leaves (but that's also bad for Nicole's game). 

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, LGGirl said:

Second, if Holly does win, he will stick to her like glue, hoping for her to pass on some of the wealth.  So, even if he does lose to Holly, he wins.   

Ooh. This one never occurred to me, but I can see it! 

[missyb]

Morty Port

1 min · 

#BB21 Sat 10:11 AM BBT Nicole has come down from the HoH. Holly notices she is wearing the HoH robe. Nicole tells her that she can borrow it any time, it is so warm. When Nicole leaves, Holly whispers to Michie "She is the HoH robe. I could have been a 3rd time HoH. I am so mad. I am so mad." Michie "I know, I know."

Poor poor Holly. All your fears are truly coming to fruition. You look foolish, not heroic.

She listening to Miche and was overly concerned with how she looked to America. Let that be your guideline in Big Brother. What America thinks of me. Does anyone ever learn ???????

Edited September 14, 2019 by missyb

[Ellee]

Has it dawned on Holly that Jackson was pushing for her to throw the HOH? 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, missyb said:

#BB21 Sat 10:11 AM BBT Nicole has come down from the HoH. Holly notices she is wearing the HoH robe. Nicole tells her that she can borrow it any time, it is so warm. When Nicole leaves, Holly whispers to Michie "She is the HoH robe. I could have been a 3rd time HoH. I am so mad. I am so mad." Michie "I know, I know."

This is part of the reason why I'd much rather see Cliff win veto. Holly's going into the typical "I screwed up so I'm going to blame it on someone else" that houseguests love to do (as well as regular people). She's a sore loser because SHE screwed up and made a shitty deal that she never had to stick to, so now she'll blame Nicole.

Like I said, it's a win-win-win, to an extent, for this week's veto winner.

And why Holly or Jackson winning is lower than Nicole or Cliff winning. 

[Ellee]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This is part of the reason why I'd much rather see Cliff win veto. Holly's going into the typical "I screwed up so I'm going to blame it on someone else" that houseguests love to do (as well as regular people). She's a sore loser because SHE screwed up and made a shitty deal that she never had to stick to, so now she'll blame Nicole.

Like I said, it's a win-win-win, to an extent, for this week's veto winner.

And why Holly or Jackson winning is lower than Nicole or Cliff winning. 

Wait!  I thought it was Jackson pushing Holly to do it.  Holly thought of it herself?

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Ellee said:

Wait!  I thought it was Jackson pushing Holly to do it.  Holly thought of it herself?

Well, it could have been Jackson's idea, but Holly went through with it. Not only that, but once she was saved, she had no reason to actually follow through and throw the HOH. That was all Holly's choice. Once she was saved, she could have won HOH and then she would have been safe anyway for F3. 

[rachel1496]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

Well, it could have been Jackson's idea, but Holly went through with it. Not only that, but once she was saved, she had no reason to actually follow through and throw the HOH. That was all Holly's choice. Once she was saved, she could have won HOH and then she would have been safe anyway for F3.

Just curious, who came up with the idea that Holly would throw HOH to Nicole instead of throwing it to Cliff?

It just occurred to me that while this move was idiotic on Holly's part it also has to potential to blow back on Nicole should she make it to final 2.  Whoever goes up against her just has to remind the jury that Cliff was the one that guaranteed her safety for a large part of the game and that one of her HOH wins comes with a pretty big asterisk.  The people in the jury so far all consider themselves to be good game players (most aren't, but that's beside the point) and I can easily see them not wanting to reward someone that they don't think played as good of a game.  I can see Cliff or Jackson using that to chuck her under the bus if need be.

Edited September 14, 2019 by rachel1496

[kellog010]

I can see the jury not voting for Cliff or Nicole for the simple fact that they didn't take the shot at the showmance when they had the chance. Even Vanessa knew to cut Austin when the chance came in S17. There comes a point in the game where you have to play to win. 

[LGGirl]

26 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

I can see the jury not voting for Cliff or Nicole for the simple fact that they didn't take the shot at the showmance when they had the chance. Even Vanessa knew to cut Austin when the chance came in S17. There comes a point in the game where you have to play to win. 

Agree.  The biggest mistake Cliff and Nichole made was not cutting Jackson at double eviction, IMO. 

[Callaphera]

Okay but then Christie (and Tommy) would probably still be in the house. 

Either way, it would have worked out the same. 

[slasherboy]

Could someone please post a side-by-side picture of Jackson and Beavis looking identical?  I've tried to find it and just can't.  I would appreciate it a bunch.  Thanks!

[kellog010]

I can see the argument at the double to take out Christie, but then to be handed an opportunity to weaken Jackson who is beasting everything is inexcusable to me. I don't care what "deals" you have. Even if Tommy was blowing smoke up their asses, at least with Tommy you had a chance that he'd vote out Jackson. To think Holly or Jackson would go against each other is pure madness to me. 

[Ellee]

Cliff sounds like he is really struggling right now.  Really, really struggling. 

And, it's not for AFP or anything else.  It's real.

[LGGirl]

5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Okay but then Christie (and Tommy) would probably still be in the house. 

Either way, it would have worked out the same. 

So.  I rather go up against Christie and Tommy with Holly on the side.   If I were Nichole, I’d cut a quick deal with them and toss Jackson quick and easy.  You wouldn’t have to deal with Jackson’s wrath because he’d be gone.  

Last week, Holly should have been booted.  Problem there was that Cliff and Nichole should not have said anything about the switch.  Kept it all to themselves until the actual vote.  Of course, Cliff is dick and had to spill the beans to Jackson.  

I’d love to see him go this week, and he most likely will.  Dumb moron to think Jackson would drag him to the end.  

[zorak]

8 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

Could someone please post a side-by-side picture of Jackson and Beavis looking identical?  I've tried to find it and just can't.  I would appreciate it a bunch.  Thanks!

They're not exactly twinning but here ya go.

[kellog010]

If Nicole or Cliff win veto, I hope they have enough sense left to get rid of Jackson. They made this way more complicated and risky than it needed to be. 

[Ellee]

@missyb

I've never been at Morty's but after your post, I went out there.  I like.  I really like.  😀  Goldylucks is posting. 

Thank you. 

[LGGirl]

3 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Cliff sounds like he is really struggling right now.  Really, really struggling. 

And, it's not for AFP or anything else.  It's real.

Good.   He’s made a deal with the devil and screwed over his partner.  He should be struggling.  

This isn’t that hard.  The choice isn’t rocket science.  

[slasherboy]

12 minutes ago, zorak said:

They're not exactly twinning but here ya go.

Close enough!  Thanks!

[Tuxcat]

So Nicole and Cliff are talking about all the possible combinations and who can beat whom in F2. They are sure that if Holly wins veto today, she will keep Cliff and evict Jackson.  Cliff says that's the best possible scenario.

Holly said to Jackson she would evict Cliff. I wonder what she would actually do. I assume she would keep Jackson but truthfully - maybe she should boot him. Would she?

Not that it matters - I feel like Nicole is going to win veto (which is a scenario I am not wanting btw).

[Ellee]

https://twitter.com/CBSBigBrother/status/1172940577333112832

Jury sees their comics.

[Lady Calypso]

23 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Holly said to Jackson she would evict Cliff. I wonder what she would actually do. I assume she would keep Jackson but truthfully - maybe she should boot him. Would she?

Holly has been playing a very poor game in this second half. I forgot she was one of the better players in the first half...or maybe there were so many bad players that it masked her bad playing (I don't think so). At this rate, Holly will ride or die with Jackson because her head simply isn't in the game. She seems happy to lose to Jackson. I've never heard her talk about how she could win. 

40 minutes ago, LGGirl said:

Good.   He’s made a deal with the devil and screwed over his partner.  He should be struggling.  

This isn’t that hard.  The choice isn’t rocket science.  

I know last week and this week is all about making risky moves and hoping that they pay off. I get the dilemma in keeping Holly vs Tommy last week. I get some of Cliff's reasoning to keep Holly and now to keep Jackson. 

HOWEVER, with Cliff convinced that he should keep Jackson, that he can beat Jackson, and that Holly would evict Jackson if she won the veto? Cliff's not usually this dumb. Nicole's had better reads than him this past week and a half. I do think that Cliff is genuinely just completely burned out and that's why he's starting to play sloppy. He's losing sight of the bigger picture....or maybe he's losing sight of the smaller details. 

47 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

If Nicole or Cliff win veto, I hope they have enough sense left to get rid of Jackson. They made this way more complicated and risky than it needed to be. 

Nicole wants to. Cliff doesn't. Cliff wants to keep Jackson. So it'll rely on Nicole winning veto, as Cliff claims he'll do what Nicole wants if she wins veto (he'll be the sole vote, no matter which of them win, since Nicole can't vote as HOH). 

10 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

Anyone think the BB house days, are too long? I sure do.

As we know, 99 days is WAYYYYY too long. I remember earlier seasons had much shorter days. I think having it be 70'ish days is a way better idea, if anything. 

[LGGirl]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Nicole wants to. Cliff doesn't. Cliff wants to keep Jackson. So it'll rely on Nicole winning veto, as Cliff claims he'll do what Nicole wants if she wins veto (he'll be the sole vote, no matter which of them win, since Nicole can't vote as HOH). 

I’m hoping Nichole wins.  I can see Cliff or Holly throw the comp.   We shall see.  

[PaperTree]

Cliff is delusional to think he has a better chance of beating Blockhead than Holly, either F3 or F2.

His "logic" is really bumming me out.

The isolation, etc., seems to have gotten to him.

Once the veto is determined, the picture will become a little clearer, I hope

eta:  What if the veto is a crapshoot that's difficult to throw? 

Expect the unexpected🙂

Edited September 14, 2019 by PaperTree

[Lamima]

Does Cliff remind anyone of Joe (aged 71 on season 32 of Survivor who was alligned with Aubry) in his inflexibility to break his word? They are/were equally frustrating to watch.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Lamima

[Tuxcat]

10 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Cliff is delusional to think he has a better chance of beating Blockhead than Holly, either F3 or F2.

His "logic" is really bumming me out.

The isolation, etc., seems to have gotten to him.

Once the veto is determined, the picture will become a little clearer, I hope 🙂

He said earlier he thinks Jack and Holly would vote for Jackson. But he's banking on Tommy and Christie being angry at Jackson for the big fat lie (and that Christie doesn't like Jackson in general). He said those two can work the jury house in Cliff's favor. He thinks if he's up against Holly, she can argue that she used Jackson as a shield and was able to maneuver and make deals behind him - never seeing the block until now and winning two HOH's. She's more well liked than Jackson -- at least according to Cliff.

If Cliff is up against Nicole it becomes less certain for him. At least that's his theory.

[Growsonwalls]

If Nicole wins veto Cliff is still evicting Holly.