S04.E02: Angela

[formerlyfreedom]

J reconsiders his relationship with Smurf after he gets bad news about Morgan's death. Frankie lures Craig with the promise of another big score. The arrival of an old family friend surprises Pope.

Airing Tuesday, June 4, 2019.

[SuzieQ]

J: "Well done boys"

That's kind of ballsy for a college freshman to his grandma and uncles, LOL!

[nekilarose]

Guh, Ben Robson in a suit......okay I'm back.

I must have called Smurf an evil heffa like 5 times tonight. How TF she gonna set up her own grandson like that? But this is also the woman who had Baz and Cath killed, and threw away her granddaughter like she was nothing. I hope she is sick, maybe it'll slow her ass down a bit.

J panicking and going straight to Smurf.....just like she wanted. Speaking of J, why is Mia still around? Hell, I liked Nikki better, can we get her back?

And I cringed so hard whenever Adrian tried to lie to Deran, baby boy, you are not good at that at all. Or thinking on your feet, he just gave up Deran's name. I know he probably didn't have a choice, but ouch. Now they're gonna want you to inform on the Cody's next.

And I'll just repeat my earlier comment: they got Bones out here looking like a crackhead! But that hug  with Pope damn near broke my heart, he is so damaged, I don't see him surviving Smurf at all. He's gonna break soon.

[mxc90]

This may be the first in a long time someone in the family other than Smurf has tried to have a conversation with Pope.

I am not sure if I would order wings from Deran's bar.

J needs to hire someone to watch Mia or get rid of her immediately. He can't handle a battle with Smurf and now Mia and her "foster" brother. 

When the guy asked young Smurf to go with him, I though it would mean she would bring a second car to bring them back home. Did they have to catch a bus? Now she's going to cause the breakup of this group and eventually take control.

Isn't it a little warm for that coat Angela? She's either stupid or tough to not listen to Smurf and leave.

Smurf just keeps a few hundreds in the kitchen drawer.

So does Smurf believe J didn't kill Morgan?

I hope Smurf isn't going to be killed off.

Frankie kills the mood when she appears. I hope her and Craig's story goes somewhere.

Adrian and he cop couldn't find a better place to talk and lower the risk of being seen?

Edited June 5, 2019 by mxc90

[tennisgurl]

So Smurf in the past is going to break the group up so she can take over, divide and conquer style, while also controlling them and playing with their emotions, making herself more necessary in everyone's lives. And yes, it IS super creepy that she treats her sons the same way she treats the guys she sleeps with. 

Emily Deschanel is an interesting addition to the cast, I am actually kind of excited to learn more about Julia and their family dynamic. Its also just so nice to see someone just talk to Pope like a person, and not a prize fight dog or a ticking time bomb. Poor Pope is such a deeply damaged person, he really does need to get out away from Smurf. She brings out the worst in pretty much everyone. And Emily really does look like a person who has lived a hard life with lots of drugs and booze involved. 

No kidding I am glad that Smurf isnt my grandma. 

Oh Adrian, you really suck at lying AND being an informant. He is trying to keep the Cody's out of it, but its inevitable that they start asking about them.  

[Dowel Jones]

It occurs to me that the flashbacks might actually be occurring in Smurf's mind, and we get to see them. In the preview she is going into an MRI machine.  Maybe it's nothing. 

I'm a bit lost here.  Who was Julia?

Brew 102!  That's some high class drinkin' there, Smurf & Co.

[HollyG]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm a bit lost here.  Who was Julia?

I believe Julia was Jay's mom. 

[Chaos Theory]

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm a bit lost here.  Who was Julia?

J’s mom.  She OD’d during the opening scene of the pilot.   It looks like J has been systematically getting revenge on all the people he blames for his mothers addiction and life of perpetual poverty.   Season 1 it was the cop who tried to use her and even bought her dope but never bothered to help J who was a young kid playing with a dirty toy in the corner.   

Julia is also Pope’s twin.   There was a running story that  Baz (who was adopted became a Cody) stole Pope’s sister (Baz was J’s father) and then Pope’s girl.  He was dating Cathy.    Although Pope was still loyal to him above everyone else. 

Now with Angela in the picture we may get a better picture of what J’s childhood was actually like.   What Angela’s agenda is is still an open question but she was a long time friend of Julia which means she at least knows who and what the Cody’s are. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[mxc90]

I don't think we ever heard name of Pope and Julia's father. Maybe he is in this group.

[LoveLeigh]

I am also lost because I forget some of the characters after almost a year. Who is Julia? Angela? I thought Smurf called her "Amy." Anyway, who was the woman who showed up at the house and who Smurf gave $100. dollars to? 

I read Chaos Theory's reply and my questions were answered, but not sure how to delete this. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[Novel8]

Well ,like all shows, there is going to be an ending and we should know, that its not going to be a 'happy one for the Cody's. Some may be killed or jailed, and this brings in the possibility of Adrian being the "Judas" of this tale...at least that is the impression I am getting.

I hope there is a good reason for these flashbacks

[Chick2Chic]

3 hours ago, mxc90 said:

I don't think we ever heard name of Pope and Julia's father. Maybe he is in this group.

When they showed that one group member beating the hell out of the other group member early in the ep, I thought to myself "that has to be Pope & Julia's father"

[Joimiaroxeu]

Deran has a nice butt. Very grabbable.

I think Craig is a fool to trust Frankie again after what she did to him. How does he know she won't try to leave him holding the empty bag again?

Oxy for "female troubles"? At Smurf's age? Craig stays being a fool.

What kind of crazy game is it where you set yourself on fire and then run into ocean? A too much booze and drugs game apparently.

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I hope Smurf isn't going to be killed off.

Unless this is going to be the last season, I don't see that happening. Isn't Ellen Barkin considered the star of the show? Pretty much everything revolves around her character.

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I don 't think we ever heard name of Pope and Julia's father. Maybe he is in this group.

Ditto comment upthread, I think it'll turn out that the guy named Colin is Pope and Julia's father. Pope seems to have a lot of Colin's personality. The other guy Jake is Craig's father.

[iMonrey]

So are we going to have these flashbacks all season long? I didn't mind them in the first episode but I'm not sure I want to see them every week. 

I honestly didn't guess that "detective" was just someone Smurf put up to freak J out, even though I did wonder how on earth she could "fix" things so the homicide investigation would be dropped. 

I don't fancy Adrian's chances at longevity if the cops start leaning on him to inform on the Codys. They are probably much bigger fish than the drug smugglers they're currently after. Deran himself will probably have to take him out, and it will be Pope and Catherine all over again. I hope they manage to avoid that trope.

I'm waiting for J to get wise to Mia. Hopefully this "stepbrother" will wake him up. I'm ready for her to go.

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 (Baz was J’s father) 

They have never actually established that. It's something Smurf told J in order to manipulate him.

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So does Smurf believe J didn't kill Morgan?

She must know, especially now. She just didn't admit it to the guy she hired to play a detective.

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When they showed that one group member beating the hell out of the other group member early in the ep, I thought to myself "that has to be Pope & Julia's father"

Actually, the guy she was sleeping with prior to that scene looked remarkably like Shawn Hatosy, so that made me wonder if he's supposed to be Pope and Julia's father.

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Smurf just keeps a few hundreds in the kitchen drawer.

Honestly, this family has no understanding of the value of money. They blow through it like it's nothing. I keep wondering why they need to keep doing these "jobs" because they have already each amassed a personal fortune. Easy come easy go.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I honestly didn't guess that "detective" was just someone Smurf put up to freak J out, even though I did wonder how on earth she could "fix" things so the homicide investigation would be dropped. 

I think that whole scene was a setup by Smurf to assert herself over J.  Since she just hired the retired detective to rattle J's cage, there probably wasn't even an investigation in the first place, and she made up that line too.

[iMonrey]

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I think that whole scene was a setup by Smurf to assert herself over J.  Since she just hired the retired detective to rattle J's cage, there probably wasn't even an investigation in the first place, and she made up that line too.

Oh, sure she did. And she knows he stole those properties then got rid of Morgan to cover it up. And I think in a way she admires him for it. But she definitely wants to keep the upper hand and remind him he still needs her. Her driving force since Season 2 has been reminding her boys they still need her because that's when they all started rebelling against her. 

[Raja]

On 6/4/2019 at 6:09 PM, SuzieQ said:

J: "Well done boys"

That's kind of ballsy for a college freshman to his grandma and uncles, LOL!

I think with Baz gone along with Pope not being all there the other two boys have come to the acceptance that J is the crown prince.

I don't know what to think about Mia, last season she just laid to be raped by her "foster brother" with the new episode she had the blank prostitute look with J and gave her gang husband the passionate kiss.

When Angela was with Pope in the kitchen trying to get the upper position on Smurf I had a laugh. You are nowhere near Smurf's manipulation level at this point.

[MaggieG]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:26 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I think Craig is a fool to trust Frankie again after what she did to him. How does he know she won't try to leave him holding the empty bag again?

Oxy for "female troubles"? At Smurf's age? Craig stays being a fool.

To be fair, Craig has never been a genius. He usually thinks with the little head, not the big head 😉  He sure is pretty though.

[topanga]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:09 PM, SuzieQ said:

J: "Well done boys"

That's kind of ballsy for a college freshman to his grandma and uncles, LOL!

J does seem to be the most intelligent and level-headed of the bunch.

Although Daren is no dummy. But it seems he never wanted to lead the crime family. In fact, wasn't he trying to go fully legit once he bought the bar? I suppose he still needs the cash flow from their "jobs." 

Back to J: But he's so introspective and quiet that I still can't figure out all of his motivations. Sometimes he acts mature beyond his years--going behind Smurf's back to work with Morgan, running a bowling alley, enrolling himself in college, for example. And sometimes he acts like a 19-year old--falling for Smurf's detective (in all fairness, so did I), or not even being suspicious of Mia and her 'foster brother.' Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she threaten to kill J at some point? How can he fully trust her? 

On 6/4/2019 at 10:24 PM, nekilarose said:

And I'll just repeat my earlier comment: they got Bones out here looking like a crackhead! But that hug  with Pope damn near broke my heart, he is so damaged, I don't see him surviving Smurf at all. He's gonna break soon.

Ah, that's who she is. I kept saying, "that actress looks so familiar," but I couldn't place her.

I'm glad she's clean. And I know she gave Smurf back the $100 out of pride and to show her that she's sober, but Sis, you just got out of prison. Surely you could've used that $100 to buy groceries or toiletries. Who cares what Smurf thinks?

I feel really sad for Pope. Maybe he and Angela can help each other somehow. 

It's weird that no one talks about Julia. I know she died a tragic? shameful? death, and I know Smurf didn't like her, but none of her brothers liked her either? No one can think of happy stories to tell about her at family dinners? 

[SuzieQ]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

I'm glad she's clean. And I know she gave Smurf back the $100 out of pride and to show her that she's sober, but Sis, you just got out of prison. Surely you could've used that $100 to buy groceries or toiletries. Who cares what Smurf thinks?

I feel really sad for Pope. Maybe he and Angela can help each other somehow. 

I read that scene much differently.  I think her using the $100 bill for the pizza was a big F U to Smurf.  More like "you think you're going to get me out of here for a hundred bucks?"  Unfortunately I think she will mess Pope up even more, if that's possible. 😞

[topanga]

3 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I read that scene much differently.  I think her using the $100 bill for the pizza was a big F U to Smurf.  More like "you think you're going to get me out of here for a hundred bucks?"  Unfortunately I think she will mess Pope up even more, if that's possible. 😞

I hear ya, but did she have to give her back the 100 bucks? Her being there was already telling Smurf she couldn’t get rid of her that easily 

[MaggieG]

18 hours ago, topanga said:

It's weird that no one talks about Julia. I know she died a tragic? shameful? death, and I know Smurf didn't like her, but none of her brothers liked her either? No one can think of happy stories to tell about her at family dinners? 

I don't think Craig and Deran had much of a relationship with her. J was maybe 17 when he came to live with them and he didn't know his uncles, so I assume Julia left home when she was pregnant and never came back and Craig and Deran were young when that happened. Julia seemed closer to Baz (possible father of J) and Pope (her twin).

[iMonrey]

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she threaten to kill J at some point? How can he fully trust her? 

I don't think she ever threatened to kill him. What she held over his head was the "safety" that they were providing Smurf in prison and she leaned on him for the weekly (?) payments pretty hard. 

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J was maybe 17 when he came to live with them and he didn't know his uncles, so I assume Julia left home when she was pregnant and never came back and Craig and Deran were young when that happened.

He knew them, he just hadn't seen them since he was little. (I recently re-watched the pilot.) But J isn't that much younger than Deran and Craig, who I assume to be in their mid-20s, so yeah, they would have been kids themselves when Julia moved out.

For what it's worth, Sean Hatosy (Pope) is 44, Ben Robson (Craig) is 35, Jake Weary (Deran) is 29, and Finn Cole (J) is 24. It strikes me that Craig is played younger than the actor's age, closer to Deran's age, so J would only be five years younger than the youngest of Smurf's kids. 

[Shellbell59]

I’m starting to think the show is grasping...aka...jumping shark...

Now that it is created (rather than basing on the true life Australian family)....it is starting to seem so typical TV (sons of anarchy) crime fam predictable arcs....unfortunately (IMHO)

i LOVE the show however! Hopefully it picks up

In other words… Usually I can remember what has happened in each episode at this time… This season I can’t?… Maybe it’s because I turn 60? Ha ha ha ha

Edited June 14, 2019 by Shellbell59
Forgot my reasoning bwahaha 😆

[talktoomuch]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:24 PM, nekilarose said:

Speaking of J, why is Mia still around? Hell, I liked Nikki better, can we get her back?

See @nekilarose I loved everything about your post til you said this shit. I wish I could delete it myself in case TPTB get some stupid idea about bringing back that succubus. 

On 6/5/2019 at 12:26 AM, tennisgurl said:

Emily Deschanel is an interesting addition to the cast, I am actually kind of excited to learn more about Julia and their family dynamic. Its also just so nice to see someone just talk to Pope like a person, and not a prize fight dog or a ticking time bomb. Poor Pope is such a deeply damaged person, he really does need to get out away from Smurf. She brings out the worst in pretty much everyone. 

It was so sweet and simultaneously  heartbreaking to realize no one talks to Pope like a person until Angela did. I'm looking forward to this storyline. 

[SuzieQ]

Interesting interview with Emily about Angela's character:

Interview with Emily D.

[Emily Thrace]

On 6/11/2019 at 12:11 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't think she ever threatened to kill him. What she held over his head was the "safety" that they were providing Smurf in prison and she leaned on him for the weekly (?) payments pretty hard. 

He knew them, he just hadn't seen them since he was little. (I recently re-watched the pilot.) But J isn't that much younger than Deran and Craig, who I assume to be in their mid-20s, so yeah, they would have been kids themselves when Julia moved out.

For what it's worth, Sean Hatosy (Pope) is 44, Ben Robson (Craig) is 35, Jake Weary (Deran) is 29, and Finn Cole (J) is 24. It strikes me that Craig is played younger than the actor's age, closer to Deran's age, so J would only be five years younger than the youngest of Smurf's kids. 

Dennis mentioned when he met Smurf Pope was 7 and Craig was in diapers. So there would be about 5-6 years between him and Pope and Julia. There would only be 3 years at most between Craig and Darren. So Craig and Darren would have been kids. However its never really been said exactly how old Jay was when they moved out. I would assume it was when Jay was pretty young but who knows. 

[nekilarose]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:47 PM, talktoomuch said:

See @nekilarose I loved everything about your post til you said this shit. I wish I could delete it myself in case TPTB get some stupid idea about bringing back that succubus. 

LOL, I should have added in a disclaimer:

The author of this post is not advocating for the return of that character.