S20.E24: End Game

[MrsRafaelBarba]

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

[Gigglepuff]

1 hour ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

They see it with their Benson covered shades on, I do believe. I rolled my eyes so hard at some of the diehards comments. I mean as if their Saint herself hasn't done equally horrible things. 

I remember years ago, my friend's father who was a long time police officer (highest rank was inspector) said that both Benson and Stabler would have been fired and likely imprisoned for some of their antics. Of course SVU is a TV show and not based in any reality whatsoever, but still, the fans are willing to attack Stone and turn a blind eye to Benson's behaviour over the last 20 years because she's a saint in their minds.

Also, I cackled at some of the comments about poor Liv and how she deserves someone who would never leave her (meaning Stone). I guess they figured that his sole purpose in life is to be a prop for Benson, even though the two were never linked romantically.  

I don't know whether or not I'm going to bother with the show next season. Stone was a breath of fresh air for standing up to Benson and he too became nothing more than her lickspittle in the end, and I don't think I can watch whatever Leight is going to come up with. Looking back, the sanctification of Liv really began in full force under him. 

[dttruman]

10 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

I like to check the comments at "All Things Law and Order" that covers SVU episodes. They are pretty objective. I think someone has a couple of people with numerous twitter accounts that skew the number that actually like the episodes.

I am so glad BBT's series finale was excellent. My entire Thursday night wasn't a total waste

Edited May 18, 2019 by dttruman

[Ms Blue Jay]

Can someone explain to me what happened ?  What does Titus's character mean when he says "You set me up"?   

[MrsRafaelBarba]

17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Can someone explain to me what happened ?  What does Titus's character mean when he says "You set me up"?   

Stone, Nikki Staines and Fin conspired to make it appear that Miller paid Brooke hush money.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

Of course the die hard Benson fans love it: Stone became a full on Benson Bot in this one and ruined himself all for her, and the whole episode was all about St Olivia and how special she is. I’m sure the Benson stans had an orgasm seeing Stone, who was public enemy #1 to them up until now, become Benson’s bitch.

This episode really left me with a terrible taste in my mouth and I’m beyond disappointed with how Stone was ruined. I don’t think season 21 will be any different and I’m not excited for it. 

[wknt3]

12 hours ago, Fellaway said:

This ep should be shown to Leight as a case study in everything that's gone wrong with this show the last three seasons.  I am completely prepared to pretend these last three seasons never happened.  I just hope, for 21, that they allow Leight to run the show and not MH or whomever thinks the deification of Olivia Benson is the right way to go.

I'm glad you said hope instead of expect. I know we don't fully agree on this, but a lot of this started at the end of Leight's run and he was in a stronger position then since he was the EP who came in and righted the ship and saved the show from cancellation and got them to the point where they could coast on inertia to Dick Wolf's holy grail of breaking Gunsmoke's record whereas now he's just the guy who was under contract and didn't have an actual show to run when the showrunner was pushed out/quit in  part because he lost the battle against the cult of St. Benson.
 

11 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Yeah, I've learned not to expect much when I see their names in the credits.  I don't know, these last few eps have sucked.  Maybe Chernuchin didn't feel like putting in the effort since he's out the door anyway.  All I have to say to him is good riddance, and good luck, fans of FBI.

Maybe he gave up, maybe he was distracted dealing with external issues like negotiating his exit, maybe he wasn't really in the drivers seat anymore. Most likely some combination of those and other factors that we can't really know from the outside. I do wish him well and thank him for his efforts and for what he was able to accomplish (another season like Season 18 and I would probably have bailed). As far as FBI fans are concerned they are getting a great writer on a better show that is better managed so I don't think they need any more luck - lets save the good fortune for SVU fans who have the odds stacked against them!

Edited May 18, 2019 by wknt3

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

Take comfort in that this finale, I believe, hit ratings lows. So the Benson Worshipers may be loud, but they are also apparently few.

[ChristiKRN]

It is criminal how they have destroyed the character of Stone, a legacy character . I truly believe the benson fans on social media led to the destruction of this character just because he had the audacity to stand up to her and at least initially did not drink the benson  Koolaid.  To have him frame a defendant and potentially sabotage  his career if he is discovered because of benson and Noah?  Ridiculous!!  There was too much about his personal life thrown at us before we even got a chance to see what the character could do in the courtroom and develop respect for him.  

On a good note, Titus Welliver and Callie Thorne were excellent.  But they could have done so much more with both characters . 

I agree with Gigglepuff about Leight’s return.  He is very pro-Mariska and was the one who brought us Noah and everything we hate about Rollins.  I will say his storytelling ability is leap years past Eid and Chernuchin.  

I used to revolve my Wednesday nights around SVU.  Now I get to the episode when I can for the last couple of months ; still have last week’s on the DVR waiting.  I remember I was on call for my hospice job a few years back and had to go out shortly before SVU came on and being so pissed.  They had SVU on when I got there and they asked if I minded if they kept it on, which I of course was agreeable .  I forget the name  of the episode but it was the episode where liv, fin, and Carisi were undercover in the brothel on super bowl Sunday; Undercover Mother?? Tried to play it professionally until Declan showed up and said “oh my god, DECLAN!!” .  I have lost my excitement for the show.  It’s a shame. 

[Xeliou66]

27 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

It is criminal how they have destroyed the character of Stone, a legacy character . I truly believe the benson fans on social media led to the destruction of this character just because he had the audacity to stand up to her and at least initially did not drink the benson  Koolaid.  To have him frame a defendant and potentially sabotage  his career if he is discovered because of benson and Noah?  Ridiculous!!  There was too much about his personal life thrown at us before we even got a chance to see what the character could do in the courtroom and develop respect for him.  

I agree with Gigglepuff about Leight’s return.  He is very pro-Mariska and was the one who brought us Noah and everything we hate about Rollins.  I will say his storytelling ability is leap years past Eid and Chernuchin.  

I agree, it’s criminal that they turned Ben Stone’s son into an unethical trainwreck all because he loved Benson. It makes me sick to think about. I loved how Peter was by the book and not afraid to call people out on stuff and tell them to get more evidence, and then all of the sudden he does a 180 out of nowhere and becomes a rogue prosecutor all because of Benson. Beyond OOC and a terrible exit for Stone. I agree that the Benson fans played a large part in this, they hated how he wouldn’t always go along with whatever she wanted and would challenge her, so they whined constantly about him and the writers decided to give the Benson fans what they want and turn Stone into Benson’s bitch. I’m still beyond pissed about it.

I’m not excited for Leight’s return, unlike others. While Leight did write some good episodes, he also loves personal drama, he gave us Noah and a boatload of Rollins drama. I’m afraid that season 21 will be endless plots of super mommy soaps. Churnuchin is a good writer IMO, he did a solid job with SVU, he just couldn’t control MH’s ego, and I don’t really think he was in charge by the end, he will do well at FBI, an actual ensemble show with not much personal crap. 

[ForeverAlone]

WTF did I just witness? Yes I knew Peter Stone was not going to come back next season, but this is the way they do it? He does something unethical and likely illegal, all because he wanted to help Olivia? And his final speech to Olivia was just a shorter version of Rafael's speech to Olivia? She apparently has this superpower to make men become unhealthily attached to her, so unhealthily attached that they must run away due to the force of their feelings. Unfucking believable. 

[Iguessnot]

Archangel Olivia strikes down another DA!!! 

How did the cop on the scene know the girl's internal organs were pulverized?

Nikki tells Olivia that her daughter walked the dog last night and was given a treat. It seems the dog was found dead in the morning, yet the pooch had an autopsy with full results, a cremation, and the urn delivered by parcel post that very same day. Talk about express service.

If Miller can scare people even in the prison, shouldn't Olivia have a bomb squad check her car when Miller is just waiting around to threaten her?

They actually convicted him of the murder of a girl where no connection was provided and based on a court admitted hoax. I'm going to have fun reading this thread now.

[shksabelle]

Does Nikki Staines have a butler? Does Olivia have a key to her apartment?

can Saint Benson walk through walls?

How did Benson just stroll into Nikki’s living room?

[Fellaway]

On 5/18/2019 at 9:38 AM, Gigglepuff said:

I remember years ago, my friend's father who was a long time police officer (highest rank was inspector) said that both Benson and Stabler would have been fired and likely imprisoned for some of their antics. Of course SVU is a TV show and not based in any reality whatsoever, but still, the fans are willing to attack Stone and turn a blind eye to Benson's behaviour over the last 20 years because she's a saint in their minds. 

I am willing to accept some level of unreality when it comes to TV dramas, because otherwise the shows would probably be dang boring.  But SVU...  Yikes, they have a history of straining that courtesy with me.  I can't abide bad cops being portrayed as heroes on TV.  That's what drove me away during the Stabler years and why I can't tolerate Chicago P.D.  That Voight character is repugnant.  Now, these last couple seasons, we have Fin kidnapping suspects from other countries, his thoroughly unprofessional behavior in Diss, and this week's shenanigans involving the whole squad!  I will never forgive Chernuchin and Martin for writing Carisi taking that phone.

As to Benson, agreed.  This week alone, she, and probably the whole squad, should've been recused from this investigation when it became apparent Miller was the prime suspect.  And that based solely on his being the lawyer of the victim's parents.  Her bias and previous history with him should've kept her far away from this case.  This would've been a good case for Dodds to step in.  I hope we get to see more of him next season, but I think PG has been cast in a new series.  

On 5/18/2019 at 6:17 PM, wknt3 said:

I'm glad you said hope instead of expect. I know we don't fully agree on this, but a lot of this started at the end of Leight's run and he was in a stronger position then since he was the EP who came in and righted the ship and saved the show from cancellation and got them to the point where they could coast on inertia to Dick Wolf's holy grail of breaking Gunsmoke's record whereas now he's just the guy who was under contract and didn't have an actual show to run when the showrunner was pushed out/quit in  part because he lost the battle against the cult of St. Benson.
 

Maybe he gave up, maybe he was distracted dealing with external issues like negotiating his exit, maybe he wasn't really in the drivers seat anymore. Most likely some combination of those and other factors that we can't really know from the outside. I do wish him well and thank him for his efforts and for what he was able to accomplish (another season like Season 18 and I would probably have bailed). As far as FBI fans are concerned they are getting a great writer on a better show that is better managed so I don't think they need any more luck - lets save the good fortune for SVU fans who have the odds stacked against them!

Oh, none of my expectations are high for this show, nor my hopes, unfortunately.  I do have some hope, since Leight is the one who brought him onto the show, that we'll get that Carisi back, but beyond that...  

I don't think we are in total disagreement about the Leight years.  ☺️ I do agree there was an uptick in the personal side of things during his tenure, but SVU has always done more of the personal than the mothership.  (How much time did I waste enduring Stabler's family, for instance?)  But I had no objections to the way it was handled.  MH was now the star of the show, with an increasingly shrinking ensemble.  It felt natural to me, the way it was handled, and the storylines were spread out amongst the squad.  I didn't always care for Rollins' storylines, true, but in a way I appreciate them.  They cemented for me the person she is, one who is not all that likeable.  And I can't blame Leight for Noah.  He was still an adorable toddler when Leight left.  I blame Chernuchin for that particular torture.

I just found the Leight years more balanced amongst all the cast getting story and moments to shine, while not overpowering the case of the week, and I was happy with that.  As to the sanctification of Olivia Benson, while I think SVU has always treated her character as if she's more special than anyone, I truly don't see the show becoming the All Benson, All the Time, Our Gracious Lord and Savior Hour till after Leight left.

Whatever caused Chernuchin to leave, whatever caused this sea change in what we see onscreen, I dunno.  I hope Leight will be allowed to do what needs to be done to right this show, I hope TPTB see that it needs doing, but I'm not counting on anything.  Except maybe more Carisi!  

Edited May 20, 2019 by Fellaway

[atlantaloves]

OH GOOD GOD FROM ZION, THAT'S THE END OF IT FOR ME...ENOUGH ALREADY! 

[catlover79]

Gee, if they were going to throw PW/Peter under the bus, couldn't they have found a halfway original way to do it? It was Barba Exit 2.0. What a waste.

It doesn't really matter who is the "showrunner" as long as Mariska is around. We all know who is really in charge there - too bad her ego has taken the show down with her the past few seasons.

How I miss the days when SVU was really an ensemble show. I miss Munch, Fin, Cragen, Huang, Warner, etc. so much. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by catlover79

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 3:52 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Sorry to the fans here, but...of all the Law & Order shows in the big franchise, I cannot believe this will be the one to break the record held by Gunsmoke. Good Lord.

Ben Stone is mortified in the Great Beyond.

No, it's a great show, simply that MH's influence has just made it more and more extreme. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 11:33 AM, dttruman said:

This whole court scene made no sense at all. The writers decide to throw out federal charges, but then Stone is allowed to use the audio recording between Dodds and Miller? Common sense would tell you the judge would disallow it. What you mentioned about the framing and then the judge conveniently not calling a mistrial is like the courtroom scene of "Zero Tolerance". It's like they made it up as they went along. I think even the "Benson Fan Club" will question this episode.

Absolutely, how is that recording relevant to this case? Shouldn't it be disclosed to the defence first for them to refute first? And the recording itself is ambiguous, all it could mean is they're going to have to dig up dirt on her etc.  

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:21 PM, MrsRafaelBarba said:

SVU /Mariska fans are gushing and praising this Turd on Twitter.

Did they watch the same episode that we did?

And they let these people on juries?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:52 PM, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Stone, Nikki Staines and Fin conspired to make it appear that Miller paid Brooke hush money.

Don't forget Carisi stealing her phone. 

[Joe Hellandback]

1.  Interesting opening scene, we see that actually the girls at the sex party are the sexually aggressive ones which is very differently as to how they're normally portrayed or indeed when we see them later, nice touch that it's the victim who refuses to tell her trick her age and it's her who wants to play the 'daddy' game rather than him. "We're not whores", no not half. 

2.  'No Nikki, no case'? Could many any number of things, discrediting her, finding evidence she committed a crime etc, it's wholly ambiguous. 

3. Well, I guess the original victim's mother doesn't have to worry about being disbarred as thanks to Stone she's going to prison for perverting the course of justice.

4. Good villain although I keep thinking of the Scrubs character Dr Beardface

5. So the evidence against Dr Beardface is he might have been at a party with an underage girl a year ago?

6.  Your bias? You're not wrong

7. What was the CSU ruse?

8. Altogether absolutely godawful, Stone deserved a better sendoff. I can't help thinking they'll have to bring Beardface back as there's no way he's staying in gaol. Oh and Noah is being threatened again, it must be Tuesday (at least Dawn Summers grew up to be funny and gorgeous).

Edited May 27, 2019 by Joe Hellandback

[Kel Varnsen]

That was a whole bunch of bullshit right there. Throughout the whole thing when everyone was whining about how they would never stop Millar all I could think of was yea you won't stop him with your usual 5 minutes of crappy investigation you guys usually do. Someone loan Benson the dvd of season 1 of The Wire, because it seems like that would be the kind of long term, multi level investigation you need for a guy like that.

On 5/18/2019 at 12:52 PM, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Stone, Nikki Staines and Fin conspired to make it appear that Miller paid Brooke hush money.

Also if you are going to frame a guy with that much power at least put a little effort into covering it up. You know so it takes the guy more than a couple of days to figure out your plan.

[dttruman]

On 5/27/2019 at 6:51 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

4. Good villain although I keep thinking of the Scrubs character Dr Beardface

5. So the evidence against Dr Beardface is he might have been at a party with an underage girl a year ago?

Considering they built him up to be one of the most powerful and sinister of Benson's antagonists, you'd think they would have given him more face time and more dialogue? All it was, was Miller saying a couple of lines and the cast and a couple of guest stars telling us how evil he is. There just wasn't much substance to this character

[DaynaPhile]

I was almost disappointed that Olivia’s car didn’t blow up after her encounter in the dark parking lot with Miller. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by DaynaPhile

[catlover79]

Is this creepy doctor what we have to look forward to next season? Noah being kidnapped for the 80 millionth time? Another scandal at Hudson U? Would it hurt them to hire new writers to get even a scintilla of a fresh idea? *crickets*

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

Is this creepy doctor what we have to look forward to next season? Noah being kidnapped for the 80 millionth time? Another scandal at Hudson U? Would it hurt them to hire new writers to get even a scintilla of a fresh idea? *crickets*

This show is at the stage of "cross out old names, put in new" on old scripts. Dick Wolf is a penny-pincher extraordinaire.

[wknt3]

8 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Is this creepy doctor what we have to look forward to next season? Noah being kidnapped for the 80 millionth time? Another scandal at Hudson U? Would it hurt them to hire new writers to get even a scintilla of a fresh idea? *crickets*

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

This show is at the stage of "cross out old names, put in new" on old scripts. Dick Wolf is a penny-pincher extraordinaire.

Unfortunately SAG rules prohibit this. I say unfotunately because I'd much prefer to see them doing the old scripts re-edited than a lot of what we've gotten the last few years. And in any case if they did it they'd still have to pay! I'm not really sure that bringing in new blood would help given that the ultimate decision makers have shown zero interest in a different direction and the show has reached the point where they've pretty much done every story already and the only way to make things feel fresh is to shakeup the cast so that we are seeing the same issues with new perspectives like we did the last few seasons of the mothership. Which again every time they've moved even slightly in that direction TPTB have reversed course within a year.

[SG11]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:02 PM, observer said:

And here we have a second level of acting prowess by Mariska Hargitay.  The first being, of course, the Hoarse Whisper.  The Hoarse Whisper can be used to display intense emotion, intense revulsion, intense love, intense lack of understanding of what the fuck is going on.

This second level is the Mouth Agape Vacant Stare.  Also used for any number of circumstances.  Let me illustrate.

Olivia reacting to the news that Amanda has an ingrown toenail:

Olivia trying desperately to remember her lines:

Olivia learning that Noah has been kidnapped by a sexual predator:

Olivia receiving the news that Elliot is gay:

Olivia discovers that aliens have landed in the squad room and are demanding Big Macs and fries:

Olivia after sitting on a large tack:

Olivia in disbelief that of the ten best female TV cops of ever, she is not even on the list.  These are the 10 best female TV cops ever

This is the first comment that caused me to piss my pants.

[SG11]

On 5/18/2019 at 5:22 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Take comfort in that this finale, I believe, hit ratings lows. So the Benson Worshipers may be loud, but they are also apparently few.

They might be loud, but I don’t believe they are real. Because someone loudly proclaims their devotion to Bruce Jenner, Ummm St Olivia, it does not mean it’s not fake.

Have you see the restaurants that get 4 stars?

[Norma Desmond]

Kudos to Xeliou66, who predicted, step by step, the manner in which Stone would disgrace himself and fall on his sword for Olivia. And yes, it was Barba 2.0, these writers are so freakin lazy.

About the crazy stans, I made a comment on twitter, responding to a post by, I think, either TV Guide or Entertainment Weekly, about Stone leaving. I said something along the lines of "what a pity, he was the best thing about this turd of a show". Boy, were the stans pissed, and harrassed me for days. All of a sudden I had dozens of angry replies from them, for days. They really do hate Stone and Winchester.

Good luck, Peter, I hope that in your fictional universe you get to continue to be a lawyer. And Philip Winchester, I look forward to seeing you in other projects, you delicious hunk.

[CrystalBlue]

So this is what penance for not comporting with the wishes of the Most Holy Saint Olivia looks like.

How very Barba-esque of Stone to fall on his sword for the High and Mighty Mariska Lt. Benson, and in a similar street scene to boot.

Noah has been kidnapped again!?!  No, wait... he's safe and sound with Aunt Amanda at the cop shop.

So long, Peter, we hardly knew (the real) ye.