S31.E04: I Took Out a Polar Bear

[Netfoot]

23 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Man, they should have brought back Flight TIme and Big Easy instead.

No.  Colin & Christie are fine, but they should have added Charla & Snarla!

[theschnauzers]

I have no use for Charla and Mirna, and they’ve already had a returning racer’s season of their own. Not interested in them yet again, ever.

The show tried to get Colin and Christie back in prior returning racer seasons, but having and raising children until this season was a understandable reason. And I see them in a redemptive arc in this season. And that’s a good enough storyline.

Edited May 12, 2019 by theschnauzers

[Lantern7]

@green and @North of Eden  . . . the stuff about the making of TAR31 . . . is that online anywhere? Back then, I just cringed at the speculation. "Big Brother vs. Survivor" probably would have killed this series. I was thinking of writing about TAR on my blog during the "break," and I like being getting as much info as possible.

When it comes to comparing the Colin & Christie from TAR5 to the current edition, is that really fair? Their season was aired back in 2004. That's almost prehistoric in terms of how the series basically mutated over the years.

1 hour ago, theschnauzers said:

I have no use for Charla and Mirna, and they’ve already had a returning racer’s season of their own. Not interested in them yet again, ever.

I'm wondering if they watch the show, and what they think of Colin being calm these days. Actually, anyone from TAR5 chiming it would be fun. It as a great season.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Lantern7

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm wondering if they watch the show, and what they think of Colin being calm these days. Actually, anyone from TAR5 chiming it would be fun. It as a great season.

Responding to this in the C&C thread....

[displayname]

17 hours ago, lexington11 said:

Not everyone, because Britney's had her fair share of drama with Rachel when they played BB together, and I have yet to see anyone calling her a bitch on the regular. Yet Corinne's actions on this show have been consistent with how evil she's been on Survivor. If you think Rachel ls worse, I challenge you to name any time when she made a low blow and brought someone else's family into an argument with them. Yet one of the things Corinne is most notorious for was on her first season of Survivor when she threw in that jab about Sugar needing some anti depressants so it would seem sincere when she was crying about her father, who had recently passed away. Your opinion may vary, but to me, talking like that about someone's loved one is a line you simply do not cross.

But I don't care about what they did on Survivor at all. I don't think Rachel is "worse" either, not that it matters to what I was even asking there. I am confused about why it was oh-so-awful that they criticised Rachel and Elissa and disliked them, when half the forum here already hates Rachel? I also don't think it was a "cat fight" that happened on the mat, unless I missed some behind the scenes footage. Criticism of Eliza for rolling her eyes on the mat, or for criticising them in the cab, or for them walking off the mat in anger about their own performance, or for Eliza calling them fake in an after-the-leg interview and not even to their faces when the forum already has the same opinion to me is confusing. Is it because they showed their emotions, and the forum would rather they didn't? If they hadn't and had behaved passive aggressively instead, the forum would call them fake and passive aggressive, much like they AND some on this forum called Rachel fake for her "we respect them as women" comment. Is it horrible that they expressed their own views, that aren't even different from what is often said about Rachel in a direct fashion? Corinne and Eliza probably watched Rachel on BB and TAR like a lot here, AND they've been interacting with her IN REALITY. But if they were anonymous forum or twitter users instead, they would be getting likes.

What are they supposed to have done to evade criticism? Worn paper bags over their faces? Not been on Survivor and been "bitches" there, since that seems to be the crux of most arguments of why they're "bitches" for what they did in this episode? Not have emotions and express them? RTV contestants, no matter what they win at the end, are losers with the audience.

Edited May 11, 2019 by displayname

[Halting Hex]

Quote

On the head to head, [Eliza/Corinne] were playing badminton against the Reilly sisters who were on their third match at that point after having been beaten by two other teams. 

Which means that, contrary to the editing and the depressive "there's no teams"/"we're the last team" soundbites that were inserted for the Reillys, Rachel and Elissa actually reached the HtH ahead of Janelle/Britney, as well as ahead of Eliza/Corinne.   They must have lost to the Afghanimals for 6th, lost to the BB Blondes for 7th, and then just beat Kaplan & Orlins to avoid elimination.  Nice bullspit, editors.

This also explains why Leo and Jamal were so depressed at the mat; it can't have been fun being beaten at badminton by Korey, presumably pretty much single-handed.  (Call me a cynic, but I don't see Tyler being a force on the court.) And it explains the laughing "couple of jocks" comment that Tyler (I think) made as they ran to the mat…having just left a (likely) fuming pair of cousins behind, they were reveling in their sporting success.

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There was some misleading editing going on though because at one point there was a clear shot of Rachel and Elissa turning their wheel and filling their bucket while the Afghanimals were still there. Meaning they completed their wheel a lot sooner than editing suggested.

I missed that, but nice catch.

7 hours ago, green said:

According to another person on this forum the reason for the BB teams that got kicked off was because they found out (how I don't know) where the first destination was to be days before the Race began.  That amounted to cheating giving them a leg up on research etc pre-Race and both the first destination was changed at the last minute to Tokyo instead of the original destination of Papua/New Guinea -- according to that poster -- and those BB teams were dropped.

Hilarious that Paul/Josh not only took down themselves with their attempted cheating, but also their "friends", Mark and Elena.  I assume they figured they'd be natural allies as they'd been on the same Big Brother season…not so fast, apparently. 

7 hours ago, green said:

How they decided to switch to fill in with Survivors instead of more BB people to fill the gap I don't know.

My understanding is that the current three-show face-off was the initial plan, but Survivor wouldn't cooperate originally (thought they were too good for this?) and so it was going to be "TAR v. BB".  I guess now we know why TAR production went back to Survivor for one last appeal.  (Perhaps Survivor demanded a fee for the use of their name and TAR was originally unwilling to pay it, but coughed up the $$ when they needed last-minute teams?  Only speculating, though.)

Edited May 11, 2019 by Halting Hex

[Halting Hex]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

"Big Brother vs. Survivor" probably would have killed this series.

No, TAR was always going to be part of the concept; it was Survivor that was the late addition, apparently.  

Notably, Corinne and Eliza were the only true Franken-Team, suggesting the desperate search for Survivors.  (Eliza had already competed in both of her Survivor seasons [9, 16] before Corinne made her debut in Survivor 17.)

Whereas all three Big Brother teams had what Phil used to refer to as  "a pre-existing relationship".  The sisters are sisters, Janelle and Britney were returning-player "coaches" in the same season (and were allies for most of their time together that summer), and Vic/Nic were competing in the same season and have, of course, gotten even closer since then.  None of this "I've seen her at some events, she seems cool" that was apparently the sum total of Eliza/Corinne's previous interactions.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Halting Hex

[green]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

@green and @North of Eden  . . . the stuff about the making of TAR31 . . . is that online anywhere? Back then, I just cringed at the speculation. "Big Brother vs. Survivor" probably would have killed this series. I was thinking of writing about TAR on my blog during the "break," and I like being getting as much info as possible.

I think you need to ask Halting Hex here who just mentioned another team that got booted.  Honestly Mark & Elena would have been terrible casting as well.

24 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Hilarious that Paul/Josh not only took down themselves with their attempted cheating, but also their "friends", Mark and Elena.  I assume they figured they'd be natural allies as they'd been on the same Big Brother season…not so fast, apparently. 

My understanding is that the current three-show face-off was the initial plan, but Survivor wouldn't cooperate originally (thought they were too good for this?) and so it was going to be "TAR v. BB".  I guess now we know why TAR production went back to Survivor for one last appeal.  (Perhaps Survivor demanded a fee for the use of their name and TAR was originally unwilling to pay it, but coughed up the $$ when they needed last-minute teams?  Only speculating, though.)

[PaperTree]

9 hours ago, green said:

For whatever reason it is good that one of the BB teams was Paul & Josh that got kicked because Paul (a horrible bully type) makes the Survivor team that just got eliminated this leg look like two Mother Theresas in comparison.

Whew!  I would have had a hard time watching if those two were racing.

I so want to visit Vietnam.  

[Halting Hex]

I can't claim much of a pipeline; I think most of my "info" came from the Big Brother in the Media thread on that board, the relevant contestant threads, and perhaps a quick trip to Reddit.  (I'm not a Redditor and only very rarely browse if I'm pointed in that direction.)  

My favorite "Marlena" (Mark/Elena) note with regard to The Race That Wasn't is that they had surprised people by staying together after BB (Jessica and Cody had their doubters, but more people thought they would last than believed there'd never be another couple like M/E!) and were even talking about moving in together (perhaps even buying a house?)…until they got un-cast by TAR and promptly split.  Nothing like the sweet allure of a possible Race check to keep the fires burning…at least temporarily, it appears.

[fishcakes]

8 hours ago, displayname said:

What are they supposed to have done to evade criticism? Worn paper bags over their faces? Not been on Survivor and been "bitches" there, since that seems to be the crux of most arguments of why they're "bitches" for what they did in this episode?

I've seen them both on Survivor and I knew Corrine was horrible from the show and I know Eliza is awful from her twitter account, but even if I had never heard of them before this season of TAR, I would have picked up on what terrible people they are from just these four episodes. Starting with episode 1 where they talked shit about the other teams ("Rupert's old and fat," "What are Rachel and Elissa wearing? Did they lose a contest?") and then just watching them abuse their cab drivers repeatedly, calling them idiots and blaming them for their own racing ineptitude, and ending with them walking away from the elimination mat and going on and on about how much they hate everyone on the show, especially Rachel and Elissa, within earshot of the sisters and Phil and right in front of a child. So I guess if they wanted to evade criticism for being bitches, then they could just not be bitches. But the thing is, they don't want to evade that kind of criticism. They call themselves bitches. They revel in being hated. So kudos to them, I guess. They've earned the most worthless kind of fame.

[spanana]

Corrine and/or Eliza said they knew they were going on the race at least 4-5 weeks out so they had time to prepare.  Nicole/Victor were added last minute, because Victor said they had more like 4-5 days to make a decision and go.  They didn't explain the why's of the whole thing, but this came up on the podcast as Corrine was talking about how they really did their homework pre-race going through all types of competitions and them talking through who would do what types of comps.  And Victor basically said they had no time.

And while I don't know anything about the BB teams getting eliminated for cheating and if it's true, I do know that Elena (of Elena/Mark) was being a bit catty online before the season started implying that they got bumped for Nicole/Victor and didn't seem happy about it.  But it would make sense if there was more to it than she implied.

Also yes, the ending of this was definitely a lie.  I know Team Fun lost a badminton match too, but I'm not sure which team beat them? I forget what place they came in.  I feel like they were 4th, but I can't remember who was 3rd.  The Survivor guys?

Edited May 11, 2019 by spanana

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:32 PM, missyb said:

rachel and Elissa interview:

I would have guessed that Rachel was the bossy one of the sisters, but it's clearly Elissa!

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:27 AM, millennium said:

Not alone.  I like Rachel and Elissa.   They're OTT and comical, Rachel with the histrionics, Elissa with the eyelashes, but they're relatively benign.   Rachel makes me laugh when she blurts out silly observations like "Look, a little girl!" as she's running to the mat.   FWIW, I find them more genuine than constant camera-whores Tyler Oakley and the Afghanimals.

Rachel is like an annoying cousin.  She gets on my nerves but I always root for her.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:43 AM, mikewho said:

I noticed that too. There was a quick shot of Colin and Christie running up to the mat and Christie's hair was up, but immediately after when they were ON the mat with Phil, it was down.

In Janelle and Britney's thread, there's a very good interview about just this.

That reminds me of the female MasterChef contestants.  They begin the episode with their hair perfectly styled and down, only throw it in a pony while they cook, then immediately let their hair down again.  I find it irritating.  So conscious of that camera.

[RedheadZombie]

21 hours ago, green said:

This season was suppose to be TAR vs BB teams only.  Several BB teams got kicked out at the last minute and some former Survivors inserted within days of the start of the Race according to stuff on the internet.  The Survivor teams were not planned for nor recruited early on with the others.

According to another person on this forum the reason for the BB teams that got kicked off was because they found out (how I don't know) where the first destination was to be days before the Race began.  That amounted to cheating giving them a leg up on research etc pre-Race and both the first destination was changed at the last minute to Tokyo instead of the original destination of Papua/New Guinea -- according to that poster -- and those BB teams were dropped.

How they decided to switch to fill in with Survivors instead of more BB people to fill the gap I don't know.  I assume Rupert at least is on CBS' speed dial.  But I have to assume some other better known former Survivors couldn't get their affairs in order quick enough to take part on the Race or just plain refused because yeah the other two teams are basically no names for casual viewers and I have seen Survivor from the start and don't remember any of them.

Compare that to the TAR and BB Teams and except for the border patrol dudes these teams are pretty well known from their respected shows.  Not so the Survivors other than Rupert.

And all of the above is based on a post in one of the episode threads but I forget which one.  I'm taking the word of the poster because I'm kind of playing telephone game with this so anyone have more facts please correct me.

The part that Survivor teams were not part of the original cast and were added at the last minute is pretty much all over the internet.  The reason for replacing some of the BB teams I didn't hear until the poster here mentioned it centered around the Papua/New Guinea leak.

For whatever reason it is good that one of the BB teams was Paul & Josh that got kicked because Paul (a horrible bully type) makes the Survivor team that just got eliminated this leg look like two Mother Theresas in comparison.

It also may explain not only the weird Survivor casting choices but also the poorer showing by the Survivor teams in general as they had less prep time like watching old seasons of TAR etc.  Not that that would have helped Rupert much.  I like Rupert but TAR is not his cup of tea.

I can see Paul cheating, all the while spouting "friendship".  So glad he's not on this season.  Josh was able to land on this season's The Challenge, on which Paul wouldn't last a minute.

[lexington11]

13 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Whew!  I would have had a hard time watching if those two were racing.

I so want to visit Vietnam.  

And no doubt those two would've done well, because if Vic/Nic were still there, Vic & Paul were bros on their original season, so that's one ready made alliance. Also, I'm surprised Josh was even in the running, because didn't The Challenge film around the same time AR31 did? 

[displayname]

13 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I've seen them both on Survivor and I knew Corrine was horrible from the show and I know Eliza is awful from her twitter account, but even if I had never heard of them before this season of TAR, I would have picked up on what terrible people they are from just these four episodes. Starting with episode 1 where they talked shit about the other teams ("Rupert's old and fat," "What are Rachel and Elissa wearing? Did they lose a contest?") and then just watching them abuse their cab drivers repeatedly, calling them idiots and blaming them for their own racing ineptitude, and ending with them walking away from the elimination mat and going on and on about how much they hate everyone on the show, especially Rachel and Elissa, within earshot of the sisters and Phil and right in front of a child. So I guess if they wanted to evade criticism for being bitches, then they could just not be bitches.

OK. I don't see how anyone concludes "within earshot" nor does it answer why hating the sisters and voicing the general opinion about them is so bad even now, but anyway I disagree. I didn't see it as them fighting right in front of a child either. It looked more like they walked away so they could avoid a scene in front of the lot of them. That they were being filmed and had microphones attached is something that a lot of us avoid in daily life.

13 hours ago, fishcakes said:

But the thing is, they don't want to evade that kind of criticism. They call themselves bitches. They revel in being hated. So kudos to them, I guess. They've earned the most worthless kind of fame.

Sure.

Edited May 12, 2019 by displayname

[Halting Hex]

10 hours ago, spanana said:

I know Team Fun lost a badminton match too, but I'm not sure which team beat them? I forget what place they came in.  I feel like they were 4th, but I can't remember who was 3rd.  The Survivor guys?

Yes, Chris and Bret were 3rd.  Not surprising that they smashed the birdie a bit harder than Becca/Floyd could handle.

So we'll never know who reached the HtH first, but apparently Colin/Christie beat Victor/Nicole for 1st place  (I feel strangely bummed at the thought of missing Colin and Victor squaring off in badminton), V/N beat the Survivor men (assuming Becca/Floyd only lost one match, not more), Chris/Bret beat Team Fun, and then Becca and Floyd defeated either Tyler/Korey or the Afghanimals, setting up the 5th place match between the latter two teams.  So the only teams to win their first badminton match were Colin/Christie, Janelle/Britney (defeating the sisters for 7th, as noted above) and possibly Tyler/Korey, if the Afghanimals were two-time bad badminton players, rather than only losing once.

I have no idea how the shooting schedule for The Challenge factored into availability issues for this show;  I've absolutely no knowledge of that show, and have never seen an episode.  (The same for its Road Rules antecedent.  I'm actually wondering how long it's been since I watched MTV at all.  Decades, probably.  Wow, Viacom has made a lot of free money off of my cable/satellite fees, I guess.)

[mertensia]

23 hours ago, displayname said:

What are they supposed to have done to evade criticism? Worn paper bags over their faces? Not been on Survivor and been "bitches" there, since that seems to be the crux of most arguments of why they're "bitches" for what they did in this episode? Not have emotions and express them? RTV contestants, no matter what they win at the end, are losers with the audience.

If they wanted to avoid criticism from me, they would not have gone into Ugly American mode. Those were some nasty-ass comments about the cabbies,  especially the one said in his hearing in the cab. 

[lexington11]

15 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I have no idea how the shooting schedule for The Challenge factored into availability issues for this show;  I've absolutely no knowledge of that show, and have never seen an episode.  (The same for its Road Rules antecedent.  I'm actually wondering how long it's been since I watched MTV at all.  Decades, probably.  Wow, Viacom has made a lot of free money off of my cable/satellite fees, I guess.)

It definitely conflicted with AR filming dates, because Da'vonne said she was also considered for this season (which is true), but turned it down because it filmed at the same time as The Challenge

[Hera]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:22 PM, Booklady1017 said:

The boat thing looked like fun. I don't get why anyone would pick the other task over that. The tasks were slightly more challenging but still not as much as others in the past. I bet they will have a leg where they go to Africa or India with challenging tasks though.

I agree that the boat task looked like fun. The fishermen who acted as obstacles didn't seem to bother anyone too terribly. I could see being tempted to build stuff if the example is right in front of where you're working, but it looked like that wasn't the case here.

For Colin and Christie, I think I saw shades of frantic Old Colin in the way he dumped the fish into their boat (WTF, Colin?) and then insisted that they didn't need the basket when Christie asked. All credit to him, he didn't argue or get upset when Christie reread the clue and told him they needed to go back. But I think that if and when we see more of Old Colin, it's going to be along the lines of stuff like that, rather than him screaming at people—and this is for the best.

On 5/9/2019 at 12:49 PM, iMonrey said:

This is the second time Rachel has made an effort to apologize to another team only to have that team roll their eyes and call her fake. Now, granted: maybe Rachel is being insincere. But would you rather she just be rude? How is that better? Fake or not, when someone apologizes or pays you a compliment, and you roll your eyes at them and call them fake, it makes you worse than they are IMO.

Totally agree. I think too many people prioritize rudeness in the name of honesty over kindness and civility and we're all worse off for it. We don't all want or need to know what everyone else is thinking at all times. Saying something nice about a team that has just been eliminated and who are clearly down on themselves about it is the humane thing to do.

On 5/10/2019 at 3:40 PM, Dena0033 said:

I have atually met both Corinne AND Rachel in person in normal, everyday settings. Corinne at a concert - she was nice to me, very rude to the concession workers.

I am 0% surprised to hear that, given the way she has talked about their cab drivers and other teams on the race, plus that trailer park comment at the road block (not to mention how shitty she was about various people on Survivor). She's a nasty piece of work and an extreme snob and if I were one of the other teams, I'd be giddy to have her block me on social media and avoid all future engagements related to the show or anyone on it.

[greyflannel]

Quote

On 5/9/2019 at 10:09 PM, Fake Jan Brady said:

On 5/9/2019 at 12:59 PM, Melina22 said:

But I wasn't surprised. It was the old Oprah expression come to life. "When someone tells you who they are, believe them". 

On 5/9/2019 at 1:42 PM, Special K said:

A very fine quote, and worth remembering, but Oprah was quoting Maya Angelou.

On 5/9/2019 at 1:45 PM, Melina22 said:

Thanks, I didn't remember that! It's something I've kept in mind and found useful and true for many years. 

Also, it's when someone shows you who they are...

I'm sure Corrine and Eliza would tell you they were great.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. I hope everyone believes the Afghanimals 😉

On another note, what's up with cutting out a challenge that directly affects the finishing order? At least show us a condensed version, and cut out a talking head or two.

Edited May 14, 2019 by greyflannel
Tried to get my post out of the quote box. It didn't work.

[watch2much]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:40 PM, Dena0033 said:

Corinne at a concert - she was nice to me, very rude to the concession workers.

that says it all. she's nice to those she feels are worth it, to others not so much.  I have even less respect for her (if possible).

[Lady Calypso]

I, too, do not understand where the hatred from Corrine/Eliza for the Reilly sisters comes from. I totally understand that Elissa and Rachel are annoying to no end and it can't be easy to be around them at times, but annoying is different from "I will NEVER EVER TALK TO THEM", and Corrine/Eliza took it to levels where I even felt bad for Rachel and Elissa. 

For all of Rachel's extremely annoying traits, she's never mean just to be mean. I've seen her try to insult people on Big Brother; she's not good at the smack talk. I think Rachel just doesn't generally get mean without being provoked. Obviously, she's no saint but Corrine/Eliza were downright nasty about the sisters and the editing never explained why. 

Either way, I'm glad that Corrine/Eliza are eliminated. Good riddance. I'm happy that Rachel/Elissa beat them out. 

I would have rather done the irritation task but hearing now about the Head to Head that sounds like it happened after that, before the mat (I guess it makes sense why the final clue didn't mention where the pit stop was; because they had to edit out the Head to Head part), I guess the irrigation task didn't actually take as long as the episode made it seem like it did. And at least that's context as to why Corrine/Eliza were directly blaming Rachel/Elissa for their loss. I mean, still ridiculous and still their fault, but I get it a bit better. 

Great comeback for Chris/Brett; it looks like due to taxi issues. 

I'm still rooting for Colin/Christie and Nicole/Victor. 

On 5/12/2019 at 12:06 AM, Halting Hex said:

So we'll never know who reached the HtH first, but apparently Colin/Christie beat Victor/Nicole for 1st place  (I feel strangely bummed at the thought of missing Colin and Victor squaring off in badminton), V/N beat the Survivor men (assuming Becca/Floyd only lost one match, not more), Chris/Bret beat Team Fun, and then Becca and Floyd defeated either Tyler/Korey or the Afghanimals, setting up the 5th place match between the latter two teams.  So the only teams to win their first badminton match were Colin/Christie, Janelle/Britney (defeating the sisters for 7th, as noted above) and possibly Tyler/Korey, if the Afghanimals were two-time bad badminton players, rather than only losing once.

According to Corrine on Nic/Vic's podcast, Becca/Floyd ended up getting to the H2H first, so they ended up losing three times (makes sense as to why they made the comment about being happy to not be eliminated). Rachel/Elissa also lost at least twice. Leo/Jamal also likely lost at least twice due to Phil's comment about it not being their day. 

[lasu]

I'm more than a little late to the game, but y'all are killing me talking about Eliza was so crazy to be afraid of a "scooter" or a "moped."  That was NOT either of those, it was a motorbike and I'm going to go ahead and guess anyone who couldn't believe she was afraid of it has never ridden one.  They are not easy!  There's a lot of balance involved, especially going as slow as they were trying to maneuver curves, and those bike are much heavier than you would think.  I took dirt bike lessons and immediately crashed my bike so hard my helmet left bruises on my face.  It IS scary, and I have to give credit that everyone, Eliza included, stuck with it.

[lexington11]

22 hours ago, lasu said:

I'm more than a little late to the game, but y'all are killing me talking about Eliza was so crazy to be afraid of a "scooter" or a "moped."  That was NOT either of those, it was a motorbike and I'm going to go ahead and guess anyone who couldn't believe she was afraid of it has never ridden one.  They are not easy!  There's a lot of balance involved, especially going as slow as they were trying to maneuver curves, and those bike are much heavier than you would think.  I took dirt bike lessons and immediately crashed my bike so hard my helmet left bruises on my face.  It IS scary, and I have to give credit that everyone, Eliza included, stuck with it.

They were scared for sure, because Corinne mentioned that she & Eliza were both terrified of motorbikes, and I can't blame them for that.