S01.E13: Recovering the Satellites

[Jacks-Son]

5 hours ago, kirkola said:

Kyle's obvious distress and the gun owners complete lack of interest in anything but putting guns in the hands of US Citizens felt real.  My only complaint to it was his little speech sort felt like it was stream of conscious thoughts that people wouldn't say out loud. 

I cut out two sentences in your quote because I like neither Kyle nor Michael Trevino. However, I really don't understand why this horribly mad scene was shown.  Yes, Kyle went to the gun shop to purchase a handgun and that was understandable.  He just found out that his dad was killed mercilessly by Manes, so his intention was shoot him, whether to just hurt him or to actually kill him. Either way, as you said, his stream of consciousness spoken out loud should have alerted the gun shop owner to at least consider that now was not a good time to sell him a gun.  Not only did the gun shop owner not hear a word that he said, or if he did, he used Kyle's burning anger to hype up his sales pitch AND threw in a discount!  WTF?  Why write this scene other than to piss off normal people who think the current gun laws in this country are an abomination?

5 hours ago, kirkola said:

Noah was just over the top evil for no good reason.  He has to give Max an Evil Guy Speech that sounds an awful lot like the first draft of Loki's speech in Avengers.

Less Loki, more like Syndrome from "The Incredibles" with his bad guy monologuing.  Noah's motives were never really explored. Just a general, "I love her! Sorry, NOT sorry! Let me do more evil shit just because".

5 hours ago, kirkola said:

And Max.  Dear Max.  Dude.  You got Liz.  Did you figure one and done?  Great epic love story.  Here let's sleep with the girl, then resurrect her dead sister without consulting her.  Maybe it's because I watched Flash first...but dude have a conversation with Liz before deciding she needs a walking corpse for a sister.  And why can Max suddenly do this now? 10 years ago, it would be less creepy.

Excellent points.  Another questionable story line.  Why keep Rosa's dead body and then place her in a Pod, for what, so that you can stare at her dead body as if she was a trophy for your mantle.? Worse, why resurrect a 10 year corpse?  What possible good could that do?

Incidentally, Liz running IN HIGH HEELS to hug Max in the desert, may have looked better in a different venue.  This was a weird episode.  Fortunately, since the series WAS renewed, hopefully all of this silliness will be better understood with more exposition.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, kirkola said:

Finally, Liz.  Run. Go back to Kyle.  He's easy on the eyes and he treats you with respect.  He remembers to wear a bullet proof vest.  He punishes people with medically induced coma's rather than murdering them or resurrecting dead people.  

Too bad Liz doesn't have you, @kirkola, as a parent or older sibling or bff to advise her, because this is spot on.
  
  
  

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Is or is not Rosa an Alien?

This is the Roswellian version of a Shakespearean question, heh. 
Supposedly Valenti was Rosa's father, and I don't think they're walking that back since Liz just said to Kyle, "You lost a sister too."
So, either Kyle is half alien too, or Liz is half alien, or none of them are alien.

[Callaphera]

2 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Incidentally, Liz running IN HIGH HEELS to hug Max in the desert, may have looked better in a different venue.  This was a weird episode.  Fortunately, since the series WAS renewed, hopefully all of this silliness will be better understood with more exposition.

Wut.

I'd say that I expect better from the CW but that would be a lie.

Season 2 is going to be like driving past a flaming trainwreck. You really should just keep going, don't rubberneck, don't be a looky-loo, go on about your business. But not me, baby. Not me. I'm gonna set up my lawn chair and my microwave so I can keep the popcorn coming. I don't think they can save or salvage much from the first season and I kinda hate that the show-runner and her ZOMG so progressive! (except not really) ideas are being rewarded. Doesn't mean I can't snark and mock, of course. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, steelyis said:

I was caught off guard because I did not recognize what song it was until the refrain, then it hit me square in the feels.

Totally same!

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Incidentally, Liz running IN HIGH HEELS to hug Max in the desert, may have looked better in a different venue. 

Not just "HIGH HEELS" but, what? 4"? 6"?
But then in the running shot it seemed she really was still running in them.
Can Jeanine Mason do it backwards too?
Maybe if running in stilts wasn't required they could have signed better actors?

[ellieart]

50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Not just "HIGH HEELS" but, what? 4"? 6"?
But then in the running shot it seemed she really was still running in them.
Can Jeanine Mason do it backwards too?
Maybe if running in stilts wasn't required they could have signed better actors?

Weirdly enough, some people handle heels better than regular shoes!  I'm one of those people...I can run/jump/climb/etc in heels ranging from 3-5 inches.  And yes, it's a weird skill to possess.

Edited to add: It's also much easier to do if you're used to wearing heels and wear them more than flats.  I'm not sure how often Jeanine may have worn them for dancing, but if she did for even any period, it wouldn't phase her to run in them.

Edited April 25, 2019 by ellieart

[MzLiz]

Oh my...

No way Max is dead dead. Give me a break!!

And didn’t Rosa have an autopsy? Really Max could heal that? And how can they possible explain not only an alive Rosa but an alive teenage Rosa (wasn’t she 18/19 at her “death”).

Go Kyle..I thought his taking down Papa Manes was bad ass. What is Kyle going to do with him now? 

I swear Jesse Manes = Todd Manning. Trevor St John plays them exactly the same.

I really like Michael. He’s still my favorite character and Michael Vlamis kills it every episode IMO. I get why he went to Maria. He loves Alex, but he equates Alex with hurt/sorrow/the past. I think he’s looking for something less traumatic and painful and just fun with no thinking required. I get it. I swear I’m the only one who likes the triangle. I really get both pairings and like both pairings. I want to see more.

I do think Maria at least owes it to Alex to talk to him first before going ahead with Michael.

And so sad to see Alex waiting for Michael (Michael did tell him to come back to finish the conversation).

I, for one, like the show. It’s just a guilty pleasure for me. 

Interested to see where they go from here in season 2 (which I hope starts in the fall and not mid season next year).

Edited April 25, 2019 by MzLiz

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Supposedly Valenti was Rosa's father, and I don't think they're walking that back since Liz just said to Kyle, "You lost a sister too."

I was thinking that Rosa's mother might be an alien, she did disappear under mysterious circumstances.

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, ellieart said:

Weirdly enough, some people handle heels better than regular shoes!  I'm one of those people...I can run/jump/climb/etc in heels ranging from 3-5 inches.  And yes, it's a weird skill to possess.

Now THAT is a talent!  Can your run with heels in desert sand?  Because in the episode,  they weirdly showed Liz's feet wearing heels,  then she took off running. Odd directorial choice. 

[Jacks-Son]

38 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I was thinking that Rosa's mother might be an alien, she did disappear under mysterious circumstances.

Didn't Noah say something about him making Rosa's mother leave Roswell? 

[Watchingtv]

No Noah said Rosa made her mother leave Roswell. That Rosa threatened to tell their dad that he wasn’t her biological father if mom didn’t leave. 

[Cristofle]

12 hours ago, Callaphera said:

But then Noah said his pod didn't work the same or was broken in the crash or was the dollar store version (like buying Tilde instead of Tide) so... maybe she wasn't as fresh as I was hoping? 

Yeah, I was thinking that too - why did the pod keep Rosa in stasis when it didn't seem to work well for Noah? I'm almost certainly overthinking this, lol, but still. 

[kirkola]

12 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

I cut out two sentences in your quote because I like neither Kyle nor Michael Trevino. However, I really don't understand why this horribly mad scene was shown.  Yes, Kyle went to the gun shop to purchase a handgun and that was understandable.  He just found out that his dad was killed mercilessly by Manes, so his intention was shoot him, whether to just hurt him or to actually kill him. Either way, as you said, his stream of consciousness spoken out loud should have alerted the gun shop owner to at least consider that now was not a good time to sell him a gun.  Not only did the gun shop owner not hear a word that he said, or if he did, he used Kyle's burning anger to hype up his sales pitch AND threw in a discount!  WTF?  Why write this scene other than to piss off normal people who think the current gun laws in this country are an abomination?

Less Loki, more like Syndrome from "The Incredibles" with his bad guy monologuing.  Noah's motives were never really explored. Just a general, "I love her! Sorry, NOT sorry! Let me do more evil shit just because".

Excellent points.  Another questionable story line.  Why keep Rosa's dead body and then place her in a Pod, for what, so that you can stare at her dead body as if she was a trophy for your mantle.? Worse, why resurrect a 10 year corpse?  What possible good could that do?

Incidentally, Liz running IN HIGH HEELS to hug Max in the desert, may have looked better in a different venue.  This was a weird episode.  Fortunately, since the series WAS renewed, hopefully all of this silliness will be better understood with more exposition.

How did I miss Liz running in high heels? 

Hopefully they can repair some of the damage before next season.  Because there were some good moments in the series as a whole. 

[Jenniferbug]

39 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yeah, I was thinking that too - why did the pod keep Rosa in stasis when it didn't seem to work well for Noah? I'm almost certainly overthinking this, lol, but still. 

I think it worked well enough to keep him alive and from aging, but it didn't put him in stasis like it was supposed to so he was awake and aware the entire time he was in there. Rosa was dead, so her being conscious the whole time isn't really an issue. The pod preserved her body, like it did for Noah. I still want to know what he planned to do with her though. Take her back the home planet and resurrect her?

[AngelKitty]

On 4/23/2019 at 11:15 PM, shapeshifter said:

Can Max Evans please be transformed when he's resurrected so he can be played by a better actor?

But he's so pretty. 🤩

[shapeshifter]

54 minutes ago, kirkola said:

How did I miss Liz running in high heels? 

They're boots with, like, 5" heels.
  
  
  

12 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

On 4/23/2019 at 10:15 PM, shapeshifter said:

Can Max Evans please be transformed when he's resurrected so he can be played by a better actor?

But he's so pretty

"Mileage varies," my friend, @AngelKitty! 😉

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, MzLiz said:

I swear I’m the only one who likes the triangle. I really get both pairings and like both pairings. 

I somewhat like both pairings and I don't mind the triangle in general, but Carina has made it clear that Alex/Michael will be endgame and that she has little use for Maria and that tells me all I need to know about where the triangle is going and it's no place good lol.

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I was thinking that Rosa's mother might be an alien, she did disappear under mysterious circumstances.

I have been thinking this for awhile. But then that would make Liz half alien too and I'm not sure they'll do that.

[kirkola]

9 hours ago, MzLiz said:

Oh my...

No way Max is dead dead. Give me a break!!

And didn’t Rosa have an autopsy? Really Max could heal that? And how can they possible explain not only an alive Rosa but an alive teenage Rosa (wasn’t she 18/19 at her “death”).

Go Kyle..I thought his taking down Papa Manes was bad ass. What is Kyle going to do with him now? 

I swear Jesse Manes = Todd Manning. Trevor St John plays them exactly the same.

I really like Michael. He’s still my favorite character and Michael Vlamis kills it every episode IMO. I get why he went to Maria. He loves Alex, but he equates Alex with hurt/sorrow/the past. I think he’s looking for something less traumatic and painful and just fun with no thinking required. I get it. I swear I’m the only one who likes the triangle. I really get both pairings and like both pairings. I want to see more.

I do think Maria at least owes it to Alex to talk to him first before going ahead with Michael.

And so sad to see Alex waiting for Michael (Michael did tell him to come back to finish the conversation).

I, for one, like the show. It’s just a guilty pleasure for me. 

Interested to see where they go from here in season 2 (which I hope starts in the fall and not mid season next year).

I want to like this show.  I'm trying to like this show.  A good love triangle can make for good television. 

The autopsy and the 10-years in a pod are the parts that really has me weirded out.  I grew up watching medical shows starting with Quincy, and Rosa's organs would have been "preserved" for lack of a better word. How does Max repair all the damage post autopsy?  Doesn't make logical sense.

I want to like Michael.  And I get that Michael has to work through his feelings with Alex and the past.  But you don't leave someone with an understanding that you'll be back to talk things out and then run to make out with that someone's best friend, simply because it's easier.  And don't get me wrong, when I was growing up, this would be standard TV watching (hence all the tropes).  But I expect male characters to be a little more "woke" (not my favorite term) than Michael appears to be. 

Or don't mind me...I saw Twilight and wanted Bella to take control of her own life and dump both men for being stupid and controlling (pretty, sure.  But still stupid and controlling). 

I will mostly likely be back for Season 2, because I think there's a gem of something there.  But the creators need to plan better, so that by seasons' end, the pieces fall into place.  I'm still stuck on why Noah dropped a garbage bag of empty nail polish remover containers at Isobel's feet.  At that point, he had to know she was alien.  Demanding she admit it seems stupid. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

8 minutes ago, kirkola said:

The autopsy and the 10-years in a pod are the parts that really has me weirded out.  I grew up watching medical shows starting with Quincy, and Rosa's organs would have been "preserved" for lack of a better word. How does Max repair all the damage post autopsy?  Doesn't make logical sense.

Yikes- the autopsy.  No way should Rosa be able to come back to life from that, pod or no pod.  Those are pretty  gruesome and throrough, especially if the person doing the autopsy wants to learn more about the handprint/alien etc.

And I think Kyle said he was going to drop Manes at a hospital somewhere.

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, kirkola said:

The autopsy and the 10-years in a pod are the parts that really has me weirded out.  I grew up watching medical shows starting with Quincy, and Rosa's organs would have been "preserved" for lack of a better word. How does Max repair all the damage post autopsy?  Doesn't make logical sense.

I've actually witnessed an autopsy, for a class trip, at the NYC morgue in downtown Manhattan.  Trust me, autopsies are devastating to dead bodies, just like you both said, Kirkola & KittenPokerCheater, all the organs are removed, weighed, and stored separately, and the body is then filled with stuffing. (i.e. newspapers). You can't just "Heal them" or "resurrect" them because the body is filled with embalming fluid has no organs.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[Aliconehead]

Rosa could end up being a clone grown from Rosa DNA. Which then gives me hope for the  suggestion of another poster of a clone of Michael because 1) he pretty and 2) Alex and Maria can each have one, no more triangle yay. It’s also possible that there was no autopsy since we have been told it was fake anyway. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Aliconehead

[Watchingtv]

I would assume that there never was a real autopsy performed.  Maybe Noah mindwarped someone into writing up a fake autopsy. And then we already know a cover up autopsy was also written. 

[amazinglybored]

11 hours ago, ellieart said:

Weirdly enough, some people handle heels better than regular shoes!  I'm one of those people...I can run/jump/climb/etc in heels ranging from 3-5 inches.  And yes, it's a weird skill to possess.

Edited to add: It's also much easier to do if you're used to wearing heels and wear them more than flats.  I'm not sure how often Jeanine may have worn them for dancing, but if she did for even any period, it wouldn't phase her to run in them.

I naturally have balance like a cat in high heels and I think they nullify my weird gait. I’d still be in the most practical footwear around if all of this had been happening around me, but it’s true. I’m also sure it’s just a show being impractical for the aesthetic like Jurassic World was.

54 minutes ago, kirkola said:

I want to like Michael.  And I get that Michael has to work through his feelings with Alex and the past.  But you don't leave someone with an understanding that you'll be back to talk things out and then run to make out with that someone's best friend, simply because it's easier.  And don't get me wrong, when I was growing up, this would be standard TV watching (hence all the tropes).  But I expect male characters to be a little more "woke" (not my favorite term) than Michael appears to be. 

Or don't mind me...I saw Twilight and wanted Bella to take control of her own life and dump both men for being stupid and controlling (pretty, sure.  But still stupid and controlling). 

It’s not even being woke. It’s just not being shitty and it does feel increasingly dated. You at least text that you’re not coming because of manners and common decency. I’d do that for an acquaintance I’m not fond of over something much less important. It’s so rude. You don’t go after your ex’s friend because that’s awful. You don’t go after another person when you’re still in love with someone else because you want something easier. It’s not fair to the other person and it’s using them; go work on getting yourself sorted out. Maria is wrong for doing anything with her friend’s ex but he’s straight up sleazy on multiple levels here and it’s not likable. I know it’s supposed to be okay because of his trauma but that’s been run into the ground over the years and trauma isn’t a catchall for making bad behaviour fine. Other characters have trauma and aren’t doing that. Pretty much all of them at this point and no one else is doing this.

This show’s performative progressiveness just highlights how bad it is in that regard.

[kirkola]

4 minutes ago, Aliconehead said:

Rosa could end up being a clone grown from Rosa DNA. Which then gives me hope for the  suggestion of another poster of a clone of Michael because 1) he pretty and 2) Alex and Maria can each have one, no more triangle yay. It’s also possible that there was no autopsy since we have been told it was fake anyway. 

The problem with the theory of no autopsy is that when Rosa was in the pod, she had the telltale Y on her chest. 

But I would prefer the clone theory.  That makes it less icky.  Disturbing that he was trying to create a new one.  But less icky.

[Watchingtv]

On the Michael/Maria/Alex, I find all the relationships somewhat compelling but I have to question myself that most of my positive feelings for Michael and Maria might be leftover from OG Michael and Maria. I didn’t think that until the most recent episode. It was weird. It seemed like maybe there was a missing scene or two about/between them. We went from Michael saying he loved Alex, while Maria confessed to Liz that she had hooked up with Michael but wouldn’t again because he was Alex’s “museum boy” to suddenly they are making out and then she is doing paperwork while he plays the guitar nearby like they have been a couple for awhile? Like what? Where did that come from? If they are going to make out, wouldn’t their next reactions when they take a breath have been something sort of thoughtful or pensive or unsure or something less mundane than book keeping and guitar strumming? It made them both look poorly that even after the initial make out, neither have given poor Alex a thought. Neither of them deserve him IMO.   

[amazinglybored]

19 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I've actually witnessed an autopsy, for a class trip, at the NYC morgue in downtown Manhattan.  Trust me, autopsies are devastating to dead bodies, just like you both said, Kirkola & KittenPokerCheater, all the organs are removed, weighed, and stored separately, and the body is then filled with stuffing. (i.e. newspapers). You can't just "Heal them" or "resurrect" them because the body is filled with embalming fluid has no organs.

I suspect this will have to be fanwanked away. Max was all hopped up and was able to repair all that damage... hence him “dying.” Undo any damage from her death, the decay and everything from the autopsy. Making new organs really took it out of him. Him healing a mangled hand that had already set doesn’t make much sense either, tbh. When it was fresh, sure? Hands are incredibly complex but alright. Creating a fully functional hand after a decade? Fixing the damage and how it’s healed incorrectly. Skipping PT entirely and him not being rusty with it? Come on, show.

[Watchingtv]

You could fanwank that Noah took over as the Y incision was being made but it never went further than that. Regardless, it should be explained in some fashion next season. Maybe. 

Back to Michael/Maria/Alex. It also didn’t make sense that Michael wouldn’t first have shared with Alex that his hand was healed. I mean, Alex had already basically confessed part of his reason for going into the military was so he would be strong enough to prevent what happened to Michael. He was traumatized by it too. He also already knows about the alien powers. Showing him the fixed hand (which Michael obviously was happy about) would be a kind thing to do and just make sense aside from their romantic relationship. No one else would be as relieved, happy and also understand it the same way Alex would. He wouldn’t even have had to go into a long explanation of how it was possible. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I was thinking that Rosa's mother might be an alien, she did disappear under mysterious circumstances.

I have been thinking this for awhile. But then that would make Liz half alien too and I'm not sure they'll do that.

This might explain why the aliens are so obsessed about the Ortecho sisters. Maybe alien human hybrids give off strong pheromones that other aliens find hard to ignore. Noah managed to sniff out Isobel and Rosa. Max sniffed out Liz. The Ortecho sisters (alien-human hybrids?) seem to cause obsession in their suitors while a normal alien like Isobel, not so much.

[Chick2Chic]

The take of Alex as a weak victim who can't speak up for himself or assert his feelings and who has to be catered to in the writing by having others go to him is an interesting choice of Carina's. 

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I think it worked well enough to keep him alive and from aging, but it didn't put him in stasis like it was supposed to so he was awake and aware the entire time he was in there. Rosa was dead, so her being conscious the whole time isn't really an issue. The pod preserved her body, like it did for Noah. I still want to know what he planned to do with her though. Take her back the home planet and resurrect her?

Wasn't he deformed, though? At one point he was looking hairless and weird in there, and then he said using his powers through Isobel physically helped him. But I agree with others, this isn't as big a problem as the autopsy, lol. 

5 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

The take of Alex as a weak victim who can't speak up for himself or assert his feelings and who has to be catered to in the writing by having others go to him is an interesting choice of Carina's. 

I think he got better at that in the last couple episodes, at going to Michael and voicing what he wanted and that he was aware some of his choices had been driven by his father even as he denied it, but those revelations came the expense of (sort of) Maria and (especially) Michael. Michael came to Maria at the end, so it's possible she intended to talk to Alex and admit it wasn't just a fling and he beat her to it, but Michael made a choice to sort of leave him dangling and go to his best friend. Michael doesn't owe Alex a relationship if that's not what he wants right now. Maria doesn't owe him staying away from Michael is Michael is saying "I don't want to be with him, I want to be with you." But Carina did have Alex be honest with especially Michael by the end, and Michael chose not to return that courtesy, which made me feel like Carina was more concerned with how Alex looked than Michael.

[Jenniferbug]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Wasn't he deformed, though? At one point he was looking hairless and weird in there, and then he said using his powers through Isobel physically helped him. But I agree with others, this isn't as big a problem as the autopsy, lol. 

You're right, I think there was a glimpse of him looking weird inside the pod at one point. Maybe he fixed when he was powerful again? I got nothing, lol. We may have officially thought about this more than the writing staff. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jenniferbug

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Watchingtv said:

You could fanwank that Noah took over as the Y incision was being made but it never went further than that. Regardless, it should be explained in some fashion next season. Maybe. 

In any event, the writers have some 'splainin' or retconning to do.
Or not -- if they just want to leave to us fanwankers.

[backhometome]

4 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Wasn't he deformed, though? At one point he was looking hairless and weird in there, and then he said using his powers through Isobel physically helped him. But I agree with others, this isn't as big a problem as the autopsy, lol. 

I think he got better at that in the last couple episodes, at going to Michael and voicing what he wanted and that he was aware some of his choices had been driven by his father even as he denied it, but those revelations came the expense of (sort of) Maria and (especially) Michael. Michael came to Maria at the end, so it's possible she intended to talk to Alex and admit it wasn't just a fling and he beat her to it, but Michael made a choice to sort of leave him dangling and go to his best friend. Michael doesn't owe Alex a relationship if that's not what he wants right now. Maria doesn't owe him staying away from Michael is Michael is saying "I don't want to be with him, I want to be with you." But Carina did have Alex be honest with especially Michael by the end, and Michael chose not to return that courtesy, which made me feel like Carina was more concerned with how Alex looked than Michael.

Maria owes Alex a conversation at least. Their last one makes her look horrible right now. She said Michael meant nothing and wont happen again. Not to mention she knows how Alex feels. If Michael and Maria are going to be a thing I just hope Alex isnt waiting around for Michael. Him waiting for Michael at the end just bugged me so much.

[Chick2Chic]

5 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Michael came to Maria at the end, so it's possible she intended to talk to Alex and admit it wasn't just a fling and he beat her to it, but Michael made a choice to sort of leave him dangling and go to his best friend. Michael doesn't owe Alex a relationship if that's not what he wants right now. Maria doesn't owe him staying away from Michael is Michael is saying "I don't want to be with him, I want to be with you."

These are all great points.

As a side, I don't see what is hampering Alex from seeking out Maria to engage with her on this topic. Is everyone required to run their feelings past Alex while he just sits there? He didn't hesitate to stake his "claim" to Maria after her sleeping with Michael came out, Why isn't he initiating more conversations especially if he feels so strongly but instead waits for others to go to him before he expresses himself? He's not a child.

[backhometome]

3 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

These are all great points.

As a side, I don't see what is hampering Alex from seeking out Maria to engage with her on this topic. Is everyone required to run their feelings past Alex while he just sits there? He didn't hesitate to stake his "claim" to Maria after her sleeping with Michael came out, Why isn't he initiating more conversations especially if he feels so strongly but instead waits for others to go to him before he expresses himself? He's not a child.

Because as far as he knows it was a one time thing that she said meant nothing and wont happen again. He cant read minds. He did go to Michael. Maria can certainly pick up the phone and tell Alex the truth about how she really feels.

[Chick2Chic]

Just now, backhometome said:

Because as far as he knows it was a one time thing that she said meant nothing and wont happen again. He cant read minds. He did go to Michael. 

IMO if he feels so strongly about Michael as well as his friendship with Maria then Alex needed to be out there too making sure he knew what was going on instead of making assumptions or waiting for people to go to him to explain themselves. Alex doesn't have to be a mind reader to get answers. He just needed to initiate conversations instead of passively waiting for others to go to him about their feelings or making assumptions that he knew things. Clearly he didn't and some of this messiness is on Michael and Maria but it's also on Alex for just sitting back. 

[Myrrhine]

16 hours ago, MzLiz said:

Go Kyle..I thought his taking down Papa Manes was bad ass. What is Kyle going to do with him now? 

Drag him to the hospital with some excuse about how he got there and get him on life support and just keep him drugged for the foreseeable future? I loved Kyle's storyline this season. I liked that he spiraled but instead of staying crazy he got smart and took Manes out of commission without resorting to a handgun. His own version of podding him. 

5 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

It’s just not being shitty and it does feel increasingly dated. You at least text that you’re not coming because of manners and common decency. I’d do that for an acquaintance I’m not fond of over something much less important. It’s so rude. You don’t go after your ex’s friend because that’s awful. You don’t go after another person when you’re still in love with someone else because you want something easier. It’s not fair to the other person and it’s using them; go work on getting yourself sorted out. Maria is wrong for doing anything with her friend’s ex but he’s straight up sleazy on multiple levels here and it’s not likable. I know it’s supposed to be okay because of his trauma but that’s been run into the ground over the years and trauma isn’t a catchall for making bad behaviour fine. Other characters have trauma and aren’t doing that. Pretty much all of them at this point and no one else is doing this.

5 hours ago, Watchingtv said:

On the Michael/Maria/Alex, I find all the relationships somewhat compelling but I have to question myself that most of my positive feelings for Michael and Maria might be leftover from OG Michael and Maria. I didn’t think that until the most recent episode. It was weird. It seemed like maybe there was a missing scene or two about/between them. We went from Michael saying he loved Alex, while Maria confessed to Liz that she had hooked up with Michael but wouldn’t again because he was Alex’s “museum boy” to suddenly they are making out and then she is doing paperwork while he plays the guitar nearby like they have been a couple for awhile? Like what? Where did that come from? If they are going to make out, wouldn’t their next reactions when they take a breath have been something sort of thoughtful or pensive or unsure or something less mundane than book keeping and guitar strumming? It made them both look poorly that even after the initial make out, neither have given poor Alex a thought. Neither of them deserve him IMO.   

I also enjoy aspects of both M/A and M/M. For Maria, it's completely true that even if she can't control her feelings, she could still control her actions! I do think that as far as she knows, things are over between Alex and Michael? Even so, since she told Alex she would never go there again, I think if they are good friends, she should AT LEAST have a conversation with Alex before she does indeed go there again. I guess I'm not too mad at her since I find their friendship super unconvincing. Apparently, they are the kind of friends that think fondly of each other but almost never see each other and rarely speak? 

For Michael, he came off the worst, since he completely left Alex hanging after asking him to meet up the next day. I don't think he is just using Maria; I think he cares about her and sees her as a legitimately good and kind person with whom he has experienced a lot less angst (than he has with Alex). 

I am hoping Maria is about to find out about aliens since she noticed Michael's healed hand. And I kind of think Michael did that on purpose. I guess he wanted to play since he hasn't been able to for a decade? 

On 4/23/2019 at 10:10 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really hope this is the end of Isobel being victimized over and over again, its just getting depressing at this point. I mean, I do hope that this gives her some context and empathy towards people she messes with mentally, and what an awful violation that is, but that certainly seems like overkill in the karma department. 

On 4/23/2019 at 11:26 PM, Callaphera said:

Isobel lied in the dream? head? Isobel's fantasy land?scape when she told Noah that she never loved him. Even though we made such a big point about no one being able to lie in Isobel's special dream? head? Isobel's fantasy land?scape last episode. Called it.

I was trying to figure out if there was a way that Isobel was still controlled by Noah, so that it was him (in her body) saying that she lied in the mindwarp plane. Except from all the other stuff Isobel has said , she did love him... so Dreamwarp Isabel DID lie when she told DreamNoah she never did. Right? 

Overall, I liked the way this ep was shot, not just completely straightforward camera work, and I was surprised to see Rosa resurrected and Max dead. Although I am not that sad about Max dying since I did not for a second consider that he might remain dead.

I guess it's good Michael doesn't blame himself for causing the death of the only other known aliens on the planet? I guess? 

I will watch another ep of this show, and I like talking about the storylines and characters, but I don't always feel as much for them as maybe the show would like me to. 

[backhometome]

8 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

IMO if he feels so strongly about Michael as well as his friendship with Maria then Alex needed to be out there too making sure he knew what was going on instead of making assumptions or waiting for people to go to him to explain themselves. Alex doesn't have to be a mind reader to get answers. He just needed to initiate conversations instead of passively waiting for others to go to him about their feelings or making assumptions that he knew things. Clearly he didn't and some of this messiness is on Michael and Maria but it's also on Alex for just sitting back. 

To him he thought they were a ONS. Maria implied as much to him when they last spoke. He doesn't know that Maria actually as feelings for him. Why does he have to go clear they air with her when he thought they already did. She is the one that needs to be honest with him. Alex isn't being passive with Michael at least not anymore. I dont see how Alex is at all in the wrong when it comes to Maria. 

[peachmangosteen]

56 minutes ago, backhometome said:

If Michael and Maria are going to be a thing I just hope Alex isnt waiting around for Michael. Him waiting for Michael at the end just bugged me so much.

They should have Kyle and Alex hook up before we go back to the inevitably that is Michael and Alex's amazing love. *eyeroll*

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, Myrrhine said:

I was trying to figure out if there was a way that Isobel was still controlled by Noah, so that it was him (in her body) saying that she lied in the mindwarp plane. Except from all the other stuff Isobel has said , she did love him... so Dreamwarp Isabel DID lie when she told DreamNoah she never did. Right? 

I think the implication that Isobel lying to Noah in the whatever the fuck her special mind place is was what put her into an emotionally vulnerable state which is how Noah was able to control her again. So it should have been Isobel telling Noah that she didn't love him - which she admitted was a lie once she was outside of her magical head realm. But they just spent the entire episode before that telling us that you can't lie in there. 

On the other hand, if it was Noah controlling Isobel in the head space and speaking for her... that's pretty shitty storytelling and I side eye the show even harder because that's just a clumsy device to confuse the viewer and has absolutely nothing to do with the story itself. And yet this is a show full of shitty storytelling and clumsy devices so... ?

8 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

This show’s performative progressiveness just highlights how bad it is in that regard.

But... but... Michael's dick! It's just so cosmic! Doesn't that make everything better? Doesn't that excuse everything? 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

In any event, the writers have some 'splainin' or retconning to do.
Or not -- if they just want to leave to us fanwankers.

We're fanwanking fan fiction. This may be a new low. Thaaaanks, Show. 

[Cristofle]

2 hours ago, Myrrhine said:

I guess I'm not too mad at her since I find their friendship super unconvincing. Apparently, they are the kind of friends that think fondly of each other but almost never see each other and rarely speak? 

Yeah, there is that. Carina has not done a good job of selling Maria and Alex's friendship - the only time I sort of bought it was the episode with Mimi, and even then, a lot of it was implied in exposition rather than actually seeing them be close with each other in the episode. At this point, I tend to think Alex is better friends with his frenemy Kyle, lol. 

[Callaphera]

31 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yeah, there is that. Carina has not done a good job of selling Maria and Alex's friendship - the only time I sort of bought it was the episode with Mimi, and even then, a lot of it was implied in exposition rather than actually seeing them be close with each other in the episode. At this point, I tend to think Alex is better friends with his frenemy Kyle, lol. 

They talk a good game (Maria called Alex one of her best friends in a scene like three episodes ago?) but at this point, I honestly believe that they could bump into each other down the chip aisle at the grocery store and Maria would be all, "Hey, that guy looks vaguely familiar. I think I went to high school with him? Aaron? Andrei? I wish I could remember his name..." And then wacky music would play as Alex goes to visit Liz and ask about this woman he just ran into that he can't quite identify because he just missed running into Maria at the soundproof Crashdown by, like, a minute or two doing the exact same thing. Besties!

Hire me, Show. I already made it better. 

[amazinglybored]

2 hours ago, Myrrhine said:

I also enjoy aspects of both M/A and M/M. For Maria, it's completely true that even if she can't control her feelings, she could still control her actions! I do think that as far as she knows, things are over between Alex and Michael? Even so, since she told Alex she would never go there again, I think if they are good friends, she should AT LEAST have a conversation with Alex before she does indeed go there again. I guess I'm not too mad at her since I find their friendship super unconvincing. Apparently, they are the kind of friends that think fondly of each other but almost never see each other and rarely speak? 

That you can’t control who you love bit... it sounds good on the surface but falls apart under any attention. It’s bad advice. Like when Max was going on about when Michael was abused he was abused. Dude, No. Ignoring how they jumped to her loving him. 1) I think you can choose to shut things down early on, 2) you still control your actions 3) you’re still responsible for your actions and 4) those two were around each other for a decade without any feelings or doing anything. 4 just annoys me. Anyway, the frustrating part is that she knows she shouldn’t be doing this, it’s been established that she does, and then without any kind of explanation she happily does it. Yay, some light character assassination?

I chalk the friendship looking weak up to their spectacular pacing that made so many things confusing. There was definitely a time or two the AB household thought we’d skipped an episode. I think it’s supposed to be a good friendship and the pacing probably partially explains why she’s suddenly perfectly receptive to Michael. I liked the Liz, Maria and Alex chemistry we saw.

2 hours ago, Myrrhine said:

For Michael, he came off the worst, since he completely left Alex hanging after asking him to meet up the next day. I don't think he is just using Maria; I think he cares about her and sees her as a legitimately good and kind person with whom he has experienced a lot less angst (than he has with Alex). 

I am hoping Maria is about to find out about aliens since she noticed Michael's healed hand. And I kind of think Michael did that on purpose. I guess he wanted to play since he hasn't been able to for a decade? 

I don’t think he’s just using Maria but he’s still using her and not being straightforward. Her being a good and kind person who he cares about makes it worse. He’s not doing this with bad people, he’s doing it with good people who are dealing with a lot and he knows that. She’s dealing with her mother’s mental decline and I really relate to that part. Actually, she may not have the history like Alex does and she may be easier but her life is anything but easy. That’s a lot and if the show has even a faint whiff of realism (it does not), he’s cost her part of a support system. Iirc, it’s the part that reminded Liz about Maria’s mother and being a more engaged friend. So possibly and sadly the best part she has? I loathe love triangles.

She needs to find out about the aliens and not have things drag out. She’s already been drugged and controlled by one, and she should have been told then. It’s screwed up that she wasn’t.

58 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

But... but... Michael's dick! It's just so cosmic! Doesn't that make everything better? Doesn't that excuse everything? 

Cosdick, one might say.

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They should have Kyle and Alex hook up before we go back to the inevitably that is Michael and Alex's amazing love. *eyeroll*

Kyle is the catch of the show. This is a fact. He cannot be another character sacrificed to the SS cosmic love. Alex would be lucky.

[Callaphera]

5 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

[Maria] needs to find out about the aliens and not have things drag out. She’s already been drugged and controlled by one, and she should have been told then. It’s screwed up that she wasn’t.

You know, I never thought about that but did Maria ever get any explanation for being roofied at the event? Did she not go to the police and let them know that someone in their very small hamlet of Roswell is running around dropping date rape drugs into drinks? They could have at least had a scene with Max or Cameron before she wised up and ran away from this steaming pile of dreck pretending like they had done something cop-like and reported it for Maria. 

Maria owns and works in a bar. I think she would be a little concerned about being roofied and/or someone else being roofied. 

Oh, wait, I forgot. Michael rolled her out of the rescue position so that he could prop her head on his thigh while she was lying unconscious on a fake gurney in a tourist trap alien museum so they could gaze soulfully into each other's eyes. She doesn't need an explanation! She got inappropriate cuddles! I bet Michael's dick is not only cosmic, it's also healing. 

[methodwriter85]

22 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

Kyle is the catch of the show. This is a fact. He cannot be another character sacrificed to the SS cosmic love. Alex would be lucky.

It's funny that this is true on both versions of the show. I was remember being so pissed when Tess turned out to be bad because I really loved Kyle's relationship with her, and I loved Kyle in general. (It's also funny that I don't have much use for Alex on both versions of the show, although this Alex is much cuter than Colin Hanks ever was.)

I feel like there were people calling it that Rosa was somehow alive on the show, so they have to feel vindicated.

Honestly, I kind of want Noah to come back. He was an interesting villain. And the actor playing him is pretty sexy.

If the show isn't renewed though, I'm okay with it ending here.

[shapeshifter]

On April 24, 2019 at 6:19 PM, Jacks-Son said:

I really don't understand why this horribly mad scene was shown.  Yes, Kyle went to the gun shop to purchase a handgun and that was understandable.  He just found out that his dad was killed mercilessly by Manes, so his intention was shoot him, whether to just hurt him or to actually kill him. Either way, as you said, his stream of consciousness spoken out loud should have alerted the gun shop owner to at least consider that now was not a good time to sell him a gun.  Not only did the gun shop owner not hear a word that he said, or if he did, he used Kyle's burning anger to hype up his sales pitch AND threw in a discount!  WTF?  Why write this scene other than to piss off normal people who think the current gun laws in this country are an abomination?

Maybe this was supposed to be dark humor? IDK. If so, it also probably qualifies as a Dad joke, meaning, like most of my Dad's jokes, it's neither clever nor funny and just doesn't work.

[Jacks-Son]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's funny that this is true on both versions of the show. I was remember being so pissed when Tess turned out to be bad because I really loved Kyle's relationship with her, and I loved Kyle in general.

Although I kind of liked Tess initially, and I guess she ended up making me sympathetic towards Kyle, whom I eventually liked because he became part of the Scooby gang; I especially loved it when Liz found out that Tess killed Alex and came into the room where the Royal Four were inside taking a vote on whether to kill Tess or not (I guess not too dissimilar to the scene played out in this episode) and Liz came in, hands ablaze, knocking the shit out of Tess, and then telling her, "Get up, Bitch!" while she readied to deliver another alien blast.  I was kind of glad Tess turned out to be bad because Shiri Appleby owned that scene. I wonder if we'll get our OG Tess in some form on this current series. You don't just drop tongue slips like "When they heard the use of your powers, they will come for you!"  Without some version of Max, the leader, and Tess, his wife.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

If the show isn't renewed though, I'm okay with it ending here.

It's been renewed.

[Cristofle]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:05 AM, Jacks-Son said:

I wonder if we'll get our OG Tess in some form on this current series. You don't just drop tongue slips like "When they heard the use of your powers, they will come for you!"  Without some version of Max, the leader, and Tess, his wife.

They can't specifically make Max the king, I don't think, and might get in trouble if they claimed he had a past life and a wife, because that's too close to the show and they don't have the rights to it, only the books. Carina is clearly more influenced by the show than the books, but she can't use the plot of the show that specifically.

[Jacks-Son]

Good.  One less thing to fuck up!