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S01.E12: Creep

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Air date: April 16, 2019

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When a major revelation comes to light, Max, Michael and Isobel clash over how to deal with the fallout; Alex uncovers a secret about Project Shepard and enlists Kyle and Michael's help looking into it.

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All those who knew it would be Michael's mom in that room, put your hands up! *waves both enthusiastically in the air* 

Noah in the dream? head? Isobel's fantasy land?scape: *says something that burns a little* Remember, Max, you can't lie in here.
a minute later
Max in the dream? head? Isobel's fantasy land?scape: "Remember, Noah can't lie in here."
a minute later
Isobel to Max about Noah saying he'll trade answers for the anti-anti-alien serum while in the dream? head? Isobel's fantasy land?scape: "Remember, he can't lie in here."
SURPRISE! Next week, we'll find out that somoene (or all of them) were lying.

The recorded P.A. Announcer in the old Nazi alien death camp prison: "Two minutes until we blow this building the fuck up."
Michael: "Great! It's time to beat ineffectually on a glass door with a fire extinguisher, have a moment with Alex to further along this messy triangle of doomed love that I'm in, have an E.T. glowing finger moment with the old lady who turns out to be my mom with a really bad denture, have another yet smaller moment with Alex while I tell him what my absent mother said to me."
The recorded P.A. Announcer in the old Nazi alien death camp prison: "One minute until we blow this building the fuck up. Yeah, we stalled for your emotions, Guerin, but this is your last warning."

Liz made a makeshift lab and created more anti-anti-alien serum. Just, you know, pulled out her old My First Chemistry kit from when she was a kid and blew the dust off and somehow whipped up another batch in between slinging plates of Don't Probe Me There diner food and counseling Isobel on what it's like to lose someone. 

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Oh look! New aliens! And so many of the-

Oh, never mind. Bye new aliens, including, I guess, Michael's mother?!?! Ok, well that was a waste if she's actually dead. Maybe her power is being indestructible or something. Oh, or teleportation. Or...something. Or maybe she is dead. 

I do feel bad for Isobel but...meh to Noah in general. He'd be an interesting villain if kept alive. And with a grieving Michael ready to save all the aliens that he possibly can, Noah's time may not be up, after all. 

Hmm....the Alex/Michael scene in the prison was....interesting, I guess. I can't say I was that impressed. Good acting...but it was too melodramatic for me. Man, I feel like the biggest buzzkill. Meanwhile, the scene of Alex/Kyle at the end worked so much better. 

So, we meet Alex's brother who....really looks nothing like Alex. Unless "brother" is just a figure of speech. But it doesn't seem like it, because his brother was all "I tried to protect you from Dad." 

Oh, and Kyle's dad seems to have died from one of those aliens! Who's willing to bet Alex's dad threw Kyle's dad into that alien's cell because of some fight they inevitably had where Kyle's dad was probably done experimenting on aliens? 

Liz...did stuff, I guess. She was mostly just there to support Isobel this episode, which was nice. 

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Wow. That was a lot to process. 

I was definitely not expecting them to find an entire building of alien prisoners from the crash. That was unbelievably sad. I understand from a plot point why they all had to go, but I was mentally screaming at Michael to wait for Alex to work some hacker magic to unlock cells. Poor Michael. That's going to be some massive guilt he carries. And yes, I knew it was his mother as soon as he said he somehow knew her. And I too laughed a bit at how much warning they had to get out of that building before it exploded. I did have a small moment of "oh crap are they going to kill Alex or Kyle?", and was relieved to see them all get out. 

I'll need to rewatch to catch all the Noah stuff. So he was in the pod all the times he was possessing Isobel? Did he eventually control her to get himself out? Or how did he get out eventually? So he said he needs them for leverage...that's interesting and has me wondering if they'll go the route of the old show. 

ETA: Unless Noah isn't really Noah's body and he's still physically in the pod and has been possessing this body they know as Noah...

I'm a little frustrated by how Isobel and Max seemed so uninterested in finding out more about themselves. They know Michael would want answers so why not ask. If Noah can't lie in the dreamscape (not sure why they're so sure of that, but whatever) then why not ask him point blank "who are we? Where are we from?" Etc. I know, I know...plot reasons. 

I really like the gray area this show operates in, in regards to the aliens. Kyle rightly points out that the "good" aliens may be the exception and not the rule. But then when he's upset about his father and trying to justify the building exploding, Alex was there to pull him back. I also appreciated that he, as a doctor, was the first to realize they had been tortured and be horrified. I'm still interested to see where he goes, and I hope he doesn't turn into an antagonist. 

Sad to see Cam go, but at least she left and wasn't murdered. 

I can't believe next week is the season finale already! 

Edited by Jenniferbug
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19 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Since I am one of the people in NYC denied a viewing tonight, is Maria in the ep?

This episode was 100% alien stuff and Maria is still in the dark so... 😧

Edited by Whodunnit · Reason: Emoticon
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Holy Smokes!! That was an hour of intense and terrible sad surprises. 

Ugh..on years of torturing aliens and then blowing them up.

Oy....Poor tortured Michael is really gonna be f’d up after that. 

Noah totally deserves It but very surprising to see both Max and Isobel with the attitude of “let him die.” Max anyway...Isobel reminds me every time she opens her mouth what a cold hearted witch she is. I’m surprised Liz didn’t walk away after another mean girl Isobel moment.

Aww...I liked the Michael/Alex scene especially the “you’re my family” and you’re a miserable liar.”

Boo on Cam leaving...

This was not a fun lighthearted episode...let’s not do this again too soon, I can’t take it.

Edited by MzLiz
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20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, we meet Alex's brother who....really looks nothing like Alex.

I thought they looked like real brothers--unlike most TV siblings.
My problem was that I didn't realize Alex had a brother.

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Just now, shapeshifter said:

I thought they looked like real brothers--unlike most TV siblings.
My problem was that I didn't realize Alex had a brother.

I think he has two. I vaguely remember Cam saying something when she pulled Alex over about his brothers also having medals.

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I knew that the alien that Michael saw was his mother almost instantly, but it was still a real gut punch, especially when she turned into her younger self to see little Michael and they did the alien psychic touch thing. Yeah some of the aliens might be evil and have big scary powers, but thats no reason to lock up and abuse them, and what happened to the aliens was horrible. Maybe its for the best that they died, they were all so messed up after so many years of torture and isolation. I do wish some of them could have made it, that would have added an interesting dynamic to the show. 

Speaking of dynamics, the Michael/Alex/Kyle road trip team up was a lot of fun, until he became more sad than fun by the end. I can see why Kyle was trying to justify what his dad did, but Alex is right, what happened was wrong, no matter what. I do suspect that his dad might have been pushed in with the cancer alien by Alex's awful dad, maybe because he was having second thoughts?

So Alex has a brother? Has that always been a thing? He did get a chance to be pretty badass, and to continue to put his toxic family away, so thats good at least. And while his begging Michael to leave the building with him was super dramatic, I still liked it. I mean, it IS a pretty dramatic situation after all. "Your a miserable liar." 

Uggg, I have no idea who I want I want to win this love triangle! I like all of them and their relationships with each other, just in different ways. Just saying, maybe you dont have to pick one or the other...

Poor Isobel, I hope that she stops being victimized for awhile, its just depressing at this point. Max and Isobel are understandably pissed, but do they really have no questions about who this guy is, who they are, and what they're deal is? I guess I can get why Niah is so messed up, fleeing a war only to watch most of his people get killed, then be stuck in a pod for several decades, but the dude really is so twisted, I cant see him sticking around. Dont point a gun at Michael, Max! I get that emotions are high, but lets talk for three seconds! 

Sad that Cam is leaving, but at least she is leaving on her own terms, more or less, and not dying or getting locked up. 

A LOT to digest this week, I cant believe the season is almost over! 

Edited by tennisgurl
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More thoughts, because I didn't want a novel length post originally:

So early on in the season, we learn that Cameron has a sister that did some shady shit/is hooked on something and that's held over her head. So in the second to last episode of the season, it just... magically fixes itself so that we can write her off like she was never there? Thanks for visiting, Cameron! Leave your date rape nail polish behind for Isobel, please!

I've raged and railed about how horribly I feel the show has handled stuff like the Maria/Michael/Alex stuff and the Noah/Isobel (with a side of not!Isobel/Rosa) stuff and the Noah being the evil POC alien - now with bonus "The white aliens were a higher class than the POC alien who was basically in the lower decks of the Titanic when it went down and had a shitty dollar store version pod" - so can y'all just assume that I have a whole head of steam about the Nazi alien death camp prison so I don't have to type it all out? Also, I didn't record this one so I didn't notice the first time around but where there any other POC aliens in the Nazi alien death camp prison?

My problem with the show is that it says the right things on the surface: bisexuality is a thing! You can love both women and men and it's cool! But then they fuck it up by making it a battle of the gay man versus the black woman. And body hijacking is debasing and violating! But we're not quite going to take that (imo logical) step to declare it rape - we hope that you're just going to pick that up from the story and whatever the show-runner says on Twitter. And now there's an evil Nazi alien death camp prison! But most of them were probably bad so...

Shit or get off the pot, Roswell, New Mexico. If you want to tackle storylines like these that have real meat to them, do them some justice. Don't just paint over them with a quick coat of "Yeah, it sucks but look at the pretty aliens making out with pretty people!" I can get past some things, like Liz creating a makeshift lab in the closet of her bedroom to make some anti-anti-alien serum but you gave us a literal Nazi alien death camp prison. What. The. Fuck. 

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5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Shit or get off the pot, Roswell, New Mexico. If you want to tackle storylines like these that have real meat to them, do them some justice.

The Orville actually does this, but it's not a CW show.

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I could see Kyle’s dad criticizing the project or causing trouble and Alex’s Dad pushing him in that room to effectively kill him. 

Poor poor Michael.

I can believe that the 3 as children were in the strongest pods/most secure level, but SOMEONE had to put them in that cave. Did Noah do that? Before he entered his own defective pod?

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So I instantly thought that alien would be Michael's mom too but then I started thinking about time line and how old M, M and I were when they got out of the pods and how the crash was 70 years ago and then I started convincing myself she might be his sister.... Yah I thought about it too much. 

I don't cry easily when it comes to tv and movies but that "she's my mom" scene had me tearing up. It wasn't a full on cry or anything but I had to wipe my eyes. 

For the poster above confused about Noah, he said when he (as Isobel) killed Rosa it made him strong enough to get out of the pod and then he had to keep killing to stay alive. 

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Noah killed to be stronger, not to stay alive I think. If the aliens at the death camp managed to live for 70 years without killing and presumably without acetone, then he didn't need to kill it just made him stronger.

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It really bothered me that they had a Native man defending that place. He was supposedly brainwashed by his dad but it still feels wrong.  He was Native enough to say dey instead of they but he couldn't empathize with these people? Aboriginals have been used as lab rats more than once the idea that one of us could go along with that torture is abhorrent. And the show was doing so well with Alex being smart and nerdy and Native. 

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10 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

It really bothered me that they had a Native man defending that place. He was supposedly brainwashed by his dad but it still feels wrong.  He was Native enough to say dey instead of they but he couldn't empathize with these people? Aboriginals have been used as lab rats more than once the idea that one of us could go along with that torture is abhorrent. And the show was doing so well with Alex being smart and nerdy and Native. 

Do we know anything about Mrs. Manes? Because - and maybe it's just me being me - I'm having a hard time imagining Jesse Manes, the man who heads a Nazi alien death camp, marrying a Indigenous/First Nations woman. And having children with her that have his name. 

I mean, he has issues with gay people and he has issues with aliens. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think he might have issues with other groups of people. 

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10 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Do we know anything about Mrs. Manes? Because - and maybe it's just me being me - I'm having a hard time imagining Jesse Manes, the man who heads a Nazi alien death camp, marrying a Indigenous/First Nations woman. And having children with her that have his name. 

I mean, he has issues with gay people and he has issues with aliens. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think he might have issues with other groups of people. 

Plenty of rednecks fetishize and appropriate Native culture while waving around Confederate flags. Plus I've seen a lot of bigots marry WOC because it makes them feel powerful. It means they can bully somone at close range. Plus gays and aliens are a threat to Jesse Manes twisted little world, Native Americans not so much. TPTB apparently said on Twitter that Alex's mom is Native. I don't think they could have played the actor as white whatever the case.

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Yeah, I'm not sure I actually have feelings?  Because the whole Michael/Mom/Alex scene just seemed more over the top and melodramatic than actual puddle of sobs, I didn't react with even the slightest hint of sadness.  What I DID feel sadness and anger over was the fact that those aliens were held, tortured, and studied in captivity for over 70 years.  But don't get me started on the Nazi-esque parallels.  I don't have enough time in the world launch into that one. 

@Callaphera...since I watched this episode after you had posted your thoughts, I made sure to pay attention to the aliens in the cells.  There may have been one POC in there, maybe, I'm not even 15% sure of that.  Most of what I saw were old, white people and the ones that got the most focus were white.  

Side Note: I swear to whatever higher power there is, if they try to play into a whole royal storyline, I'll be so pissed.  Someone needs to get her own god damn ideas.  

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5 hours ago, ellieart said:

But don't get me started on the Nazi-esque parallels.

This is not the only board on the Internet with posts comparing the place where the extraterrestrials were held for 60 years to a Nazi concentration camp, but I see it as much more similar to American (and maybe other) prisons, because each prisoner is isolated and because they have been kept alive so long. YMMV.

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: Typo
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I'm sorry but this show is trash. Am I supposed to feel something when Michael was crying over someone we just met? The acting in this episode and the directing is just bad. I cringed when Alex and Michael were having their moment. " I don't love you" and "you are my family". The delivery of both actors in that scene was so bad I started laughing. Don't get me started on the Isabel actress. The little girl that played the main character on The Passage is a better actor than all the actors on this show.

So now Noah was not in love with Rosa, he just wanted her life force? When did he even go to law school? Liz can just make antidotes at the drop of a hat. That facility is the least guarded place on earth for a secret government site, apparently anyone could just walk in and see captured aliens. Wow, I wonder why no one never discovered it before. The story and the writing this episode didn't many any sense.

This show is really a fan fiction. That is not a bad thing, but the bad thing about it is that the show runner acts like the show is so clever and woke 🗼🙄

I want to love this show, but nostalgia is the only think keeping me here. And I also want to see if tptb are really going to end this season without giving Maria anything story wise. 

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4 hours ago, ellieart said:

Yeah, I'm not sure I actually have feelings?  Because the whole Michael/Mom/Alex scene just seemed more over the top and melodramatic than actual puddle of sobs, I didn't react with even the slightest hint of sadness.  What I DID feel sadness and anger over was the fact that those aliens were held, tortured, and studied in captivity for over 70 years.  But don't get me started on the Nazi-esque parallels.  I don't have enough time in the world launch into that one. 

You and me both. 

I have to add that I'm really starting to like Alex and Kyle, I didn't care about them before.

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8 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

Since I am one of the people in NYC denied a viewing tonight, is Maria in the ep?

No, Maria is not in the episode and the episode is available right now for streaming from the CW website.

So are they saying that Noah was living vicariously through the bodies of other people up until the time when Isobel killed Rosa and he left his pod? That is weird that Noah never physically met Rosa, but was so in love with her. I wonder if Noah had something to do with the break-up of Rosa and her boyfriend. Maybe passing out from drugs might allow Noah to enter someone else's body, like Rosa's boyfriend. This would explain why Rosa would get so creeped out by hearing certain phrases from Isobel, so much so that she had to be killed.

Maybe the aliens are an invasion force sent ahead to wipe out Earth? Maybe they are refugees? Do their powers help or harm the people of Earth. They mentioned there was a stow-away on board, that is why the ship crashed, (sabotage?). 

Aliens seem to get more powerful once an alien with a similar power dies. There were a lot of dead aliens this episode, maybe some of our aliens or some new aliens will be becoming much more powerful. Maybe if Noah dies, Isobel gets some of his power.

I realized that that was really Alex's brother because his name tag said "Manes".

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4 hours ago, izzybee said:

Really though, wasn't Alex saying like two episodes that he and Michael barely know each other? But now they're family?

Yeah, this is why what should have been a big moment fell kind of flat for me too. It came way too soon after their talk about getting to know each other better. I don't mind the melodrama (it is a show on the CW, so to be expected) but it didn't make sense with what we've been shown. I'm not sure they've even interacted since that conversation. 

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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought they looked like real brothers--unlike most TV siblings.
My problem was that I didn't realize Alex had a brother.

I believe Alex either has four brothers or is one of four (I think it's the former, but I can't be sure). It's been mentioned a few times. 

I felt bad for Michael when he realized the woman was his mother, but not bad enough that I think he needs to trample over Isobel's decision regarding Noah for his own reasons. Also, if he saves Noah and Noah kills someone, that's on him. Noah clearly will not stop killing if left to his own devices - he feels entitled to it. 

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42 minutes ago, Grace19 said:

When did he even go to law school?

Maybe Noah watched all 20 seasons of L&O while he was in his pod? 
Obviously just kidding, but nothing else makes more sense.
  
  
  

43 minutes ago, Grace19 said:

That facility is the least guarded place on earth for a secret government site, apparently anyone could just walk in and see captured aliens. 

Yeah. There's probably some Scooby Gang joke here, but I got nothing. 
  
  
  

35 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

That is weird that Noah never physically met Rosa, but was so in love with her.

Was Noah in love with Rosa? I thought she was just a great sock puppet through which Noah could get infused with "life force" because she was so frequently brain-deadened by drugs and alcohol.

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I am going to miss Cam. Honestly the humans are my fav. characters. Alex, Cam, kyle.

Loved the KyleAlexMichael team up. 

Felt bad for Michael. 😞 

I was confused about whether that was Michael's mother or sister. They younger version didn't look old enough. So I was like what.

The so called triangle with Malex/Maria is so odd. Like Maria doesn't even know about the alien thing. And Alex/Michael share these moments together makes the whole triangle so lop sided. I hope they drop the triangle aspect. 

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11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Was Noah in love with Rosa? I thought she was just a great sock puppet through which Noah could get infused with "life force" because she was so frequently brain-deadened by drugs and alcohol.

He thinks he was (and I'm surprised he never physically met her too, but maybe he possessed someone else to interact with her before Isobel?), but just because he thinks he's being honest doesn't mean it's real. The aliens don't only get sick when doing altruistic things - mind-warping also makes Isobel sick and it's hard to say she's doing it for good reasons.

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8 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

So I instantly thought that alien would be Michael's mom too but then I started thinking about time line and how old M, M and I were when they got out of the pods and how the crash was 70 years ago and then I started convincing myself she might be his sister.... Yah I thought about it too much.

That's why I had a problem making Roswell modern, but using the 1947 crash.  It's just too far apart to make much sense.

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20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Noah watched all 20 seasons of L&O while he was in his pod? 
 Obviously just kidding, but nothing else makes more sense.

I guess he could have mind controlled people into getting his job...maybe? I don't know; this show isn't that great.

58 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I felt bad for Michael when he realized the woman was his mother, but not bad enough that I think he needs to trample over Isobel's decision regarding Noah for his own reasons. Also, if he saves Noah and Noah kills someone, that's on him. Noah clearly will not stop killing if left to his own devices - he feels entitled to it. 

Unfortunately, it would make sense for Michael to go against Max/Isobel. He's been pro-alien from the start, Max/Isobel will always pick each other over Michael, and he just witnessed dozens of aliens die, including his own mother who he didn't remember before they linked hands. Honestly, I feel like I can give Michael a pass for a second here. He's in an emotional state and it DOES suck and he SHOULDN'T do it, but I get why he's going to try. 

And yes, I agree. If Michael saves Noah, Noah's actions are partly on him. Which...yay, more angst for Michael, I guess. Poor guy can't catch a break.

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can believe that the 3 as children were in the strongest pods/most secure level, but SOMEONE had to put them in that cave. Did Noah do that? Before he entered his own defective pod?

I'm guessing that's the ultimate question for season 2, as I don't think Noah moved their pods. 

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9 minutes ago, kirkola said:

That's why I had a problem making Roswell modern, but using the 1947 crash.  It's just too far apart to make much sense.

We don't know how quickly aliens age or how long they live. Maybe getting their hands on some sweet earth flesh might reverse their aging effects.

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Just now, Lady Calypso said:
9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can believe that the 3 as children were in the strongest pods/most secure level, but SOMEONE had to put them in that cave. Did Noah do that? Before he entered his own defective pod?

I'm guessing that's the ultimate question for season 2, as I don't think Noah moved their pods. 

I think if Noah was the one to move the kids pods, he would have put all the pods in the same cave as his.

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Noah said that a stowaway crashed the ship, which is one of the first links to the books I've seen. If so, it's possible we are looking for that stowaway and whoever moved the pods (in the books it was the owner of the UFO museum, Ray, so possibly we who are theorizing Grant Green's brother is Grant Green himself are correct). 

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16 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Noah said that a stowaway crashed the ship, which is one of the first links to the books I've seen. 

When Noah said that, I immediately recalled that Stowaway was the title of one of the books.
Now that I type this and realize it was sort of shoehorned in this late in the series, I wonder if Carina is contractually obligated to include a specified amount of book-based material?
Like maybe she really wanted to reboot the show, but she's supposed to be reimagining the books?

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3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When Noah said that, I immediately recalled that Stowaway was the title of one of the books.
Now that I type this and realize it was sort of shoehorned in this late in the series, I wonder if Carina is contractually obligated to include a specified amount of book-based material?
Like maybe she really wanted to reboot the show, but she's supposed to be reimagining the books?

Well, and we are assuming Grant Green, if an alien, is the "good one". The one patterned after Ray. But he appears to be at least as much Elsevan, doesn't he? Wasn't Elsevan the one always going all over town repeating insane alien theories? 

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm guessing that's the ultimate question for season 2, as I don't think Noah moved their pods. 

Another reason why I don't think it is Noah is he went into a defective pod, he would have never let the kids have the good pods and he take a crappy one. He was already whining that he didn't get the best accommodations on the spaceship.

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34 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

We don't know how quickly aliens age or how long they live. Maybe getting their hands on some sweet earth flesh might reverse their aging effects.

True, and it doesn't really take away from the enjoyment of the show.  But it's depends on their target demographic.  If they are asking tweens to think these relatively hot 28 year olds are 70+ it may be hard to swallow without some sort of explanation.  My step kids are 19 & 22, and they still think the 1940's were hundreds of years ago. 

It's basically just weird.  Also, it's weird that within the series, the entire point of the Nazi experiment/prison is apparently in preparation for the alien invasion.  They've been prepping for 70+ years.  Surely at some point, someone would realize that the invasion isn't coming.

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I don't have much time and I can't comment on the whole ep - which I just saw on iTunes because it was pre-empted here, but...

The Michael/Maria/Alex triangle is completely lopsided.  I hope Maria gets a better storyline - it's obvious who the showrunner wants to push.  Poor Maria just looks like she'll be cannon fodder.  It's a gross triangle for that reason.

And that was Majandra DelFino (OG Maria) in the cell playing Michael's mom, right? I screamed when I saw that.

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5 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And that was Majandra DelFino (OG Maria) in the cell playing Michael's mom, right? I screamed when I saw that.

IMDB says it was someone named Kayla Ewell, and the character's name was Mara. IMDB is not always right though!

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58 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Well, and we are assuming Grant Green, if an alien, is the "good one". The one patterned after Ray. But he appears to be at least as much Elsevan, doesn't he? Wasn't Elsevan the one always going all over town repeating insane alien theories? 

I still am not sure he's "good".  It looks like Noah killed those people (it's still hazy), but he definitely didn't hide their pods... but if Grant Green is like Elsevan from the books, then

 

then he's pure evil.  I suppose he could still be "good", but the Stowaway line I picked up immediately and I cannot separate it from my knowledge of the books where Elsevan DuPris is the most evil character I've ever heard of - AND - if he came back from the dead, he's either super powerful or he's got the Stones of Midnight.  

I guess it could be that he's actually good, and Noah is the real stowaway, and the big baddie.  And he's searching for the Stones so he can go back home - maybe he stowed away on the ship to get the stones and kill Max, Michael and Isobel?

I don't know - all I know is that Grant Green is still an alien to me and so is Noah.  What I don't know is whether or not GG is evil or not.  Or if Noah is the bad one, GG the good one, or if they are both bad.

I'm leaning toward a mashup of Nicholas from the books and Elsevan DuPris, but maybe in this version, GG is more like Ray (but he has what Noah is looking for) and Noah is truly the DuPris of the story, from an "evil" perspective and even a stowaway perspective (like he's the one who crashed the ship).

But I could be wrong.

1 minute ago, Jenniferbug said:

IMDB says it was someone named Kayla Ewell, and the character's name was Mara. IMDB is not always right though!

Ohhh that's right.  You're right.  Ugh - I was hoping, but you're right.  

Edited by phoenics
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24 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And that was Majandra DelFino (OG Maria) in the cell playing Michael's mom, right?

17 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

IMDB says it was someone named Kayla Ewell, and the character's name was Mara. IMDB is not always right though!

1 minute ago, Jenniferbug said:

@phoenics, that would have been so cool! Seems like a missed opportunity for a great cameo!

Totally missed opportunity!

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I knew it was Kayla Ewell, who was on the Vampire Diaries with Michael Trevino, but man, that WOULD have been a great cameo! 

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2 hours ago, phoenics said:

The Michael/Maria/Alex triangle is completely lopsided.  I hope Maria gets a better storyline - it's obvious who the showrunner wants to push.  Poor Maria just looks like she'll be cannon fodder.  It's a gross triangle for that reason.

It's a shame cause a good triangle is even, which is what makes it compelling IMO, cause you can see / identify with why the person in the middle is torn between two people. When it's pushed hard only one way, it comes off as a complete waste of time since there's no suspense nor drama to it. I know Carina is patting herself on the back but she really should not cause I think the two she's pushing harder are the ones with less chemistry (not that they have no chem, just less IMO, so it has to pushed more instead of letting it be organic). Not to mention, Carina's way of handling this triangle so far seems to be having Michael bond with one while having the other one not in the ep or off is some other story so they don't interact. That's just lazy.

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13 hours ago, Callaphera said:

More thoughts, because I didn't want a novel length post originally:

So early on in the season, we learn that Cameron has a sister that did some shady shit/is hooked on something and that's held over her head. So in the second to last episode of the season, it just... magically fixes itself so that we can write her off like she was never there? Thanks for visiting, Cameron! Leave your date rape nail polish behind for Isobel, please!

I've raged and railed about how horribly I feel the show has handled stuff like the Maria/Michael/Alex stuff and the Noah/Isobel (with a side of not!Isobel/Rosa) stuff and the Noah being the evil POC alien - now with bonus "The white aliens were a higher class than the POC alien who was basically in the lower decks of the Titanic when it went down and had a shitty dollar store version pod" - so can y'all just assume that I have a whole head of steam about the Nazi alien death camp prison so I don't have to type it all out? Also, I didn't record this one so I didn't notice the first time around but where there any other POC aliens in the Nazi alien death camp prison?

My problem with the show is that it says the right things on the surface: bisexuality is a thing! You can love both women and men and it's cool! But then they fuck it up by making it a battle of the gay man versus the black woman. And body hijacking is debasing and violating! But we're not quite going to take that (imo logical) step to declare it rape - we hope that you're just going to pick that up from the story and whatever the show-runner says on Twitter. And now there's an evil Nazi alien death camp prison! But most of them were probably bad so...

Shit or get off the pot, Roswell, New Mexico. If you want to tackle storylines like these that have real meat to them, do them some justice. Don't just paint over them with a quick coat of "Yeah, it sucks but look at the pretty aliens making out with pretty people!" I can get past some things, like Liz creating a makeshift lab in the closet of her bedroom to make some anti-anti-alien serum but you gave us a literal Nazi alien death camp prison. What. The. Fuck. 

Thank you for your post. I came here to post something completely different about the show, but I really enjoyed your viewpoint about the obvious gap in treatment between the main characters which coincides with skin color.

I'm very quick to get on my high horse about mistreatment of females in shows because it echos the mistreatment I've experienced because of my gender. I just posted a minor rant about The Rookie today for that very reason. Not being a POC, it's not forefront in my mind when I watch TV, which gives me pause to consider why this is an obvious blind spot to me.

Thanks again for your post. You've given me something to mull over about what that says about me as a person.

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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This is not the only board on the Internet with posts comparing the place where the extraterrestrials were held for 60 years to a Nazi concentration camp, but I see it as much more similar to American (and maybe other) prisons, because each prisoner is isolated and because they have been kept alive so long. YMMV.

It's definitely an American prison visually.  It was more as a whole where I made the comparisons.  The fact that after the crash, aliens were slaughtered and captured and thus held prisoner, starved, and experimented on...they were targeted and exterminated because of who they were.  That's very much in line with concentration camps and Nazi Germany.  Maybe it wasn't intentional, but that's certainly what I saw.  

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2 minutes ago, ellieart said:

It's definitely an American prison visually.  It was more as a whole where I made the comparisons.  The fact that after the crash, aliens were slaughtered and captured and thus held prisoner, starved, and experimented on...they were targeted and exterminated because of who they were.  That's very much in line with concentration camps and Nazi Germany.  Maybe it wasn't intentional, but that's certainly what I saw.  

Yes I saw that too- also the Tuskegee Study. 

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