S08.E14: The End or the Beginning

[Waterlilly]

The honeymoon was the wrong place and time for the money talk as most of us agree. It would have been best if Will had said something like “let’s wait until we get home where we can discuss debt to income and possible solutions and future plans”. In this case the honeymoon should have been used for getting to know each other in the most basic of ways and to enjoy this free opportunity. In the case of Will’s future dreams when he mentioned buying another property for income he could have brought up that they both own homes and maybe they would look into a larger family home and rent out the other two for income. I would have admired his financial savvy and “traditional “ leadership. They would be working as a team and building a common relationship. Of course we can only speculate on the limited, edited version we saw. Maybe there were other red flags that we didn’t see. Respect and getting out of your own head are so important in marriage. Also the art of choosing your battles. 

[Soup333]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

BTW, I asked Mr. Yeah No for his opinion on Will - Keep in mind that he is 63 years old - I didn't prime him with my opinion first, but he basically agreed with me.  Interestingly, he thinks Will is "cheap" and "unrealistic" about his career.  This fascinated me because I didn't really know what he would say.  When I asked him why he felt that way he said, "Because he was too rigid about how much money Jasmine should be contributing to the bills.  A guy that isn't cheap wouldn't be so insistent on a 50-50 split and would be more flexible".  He also thinks that Jasmine would have been more flexible than she was originally if Will wanted to negotiate.  I agreed with that based on Jasmine's later talking head where she says she had thought it over and would be willing to be more flexible.  When I asked him why he thought Will was unrealistic about his career, he basically said that Will sounded like he didn't care about bringing in an income and wanted to be able to just do whatever he wanted no matter how little income he made, which Mr. Yeah no thinks is selfish and irresponsible for someone just getting married.  Of course I didn't point out how he did that to me for a short time when we were young, LOL. 😉 

Am I remembering wrong? I would have sworn the money conversation was a one time deal on the honeymoon. Meaning Will mentioned 50/50 once. And then later we found that they’d compromised on 70/30 but it wasn’t shown so we have no idea how those negotiations actually went. 

I don’t get how he’s too rigid about his beliefs but it’s totally fine for her to insist on 100%.

I realize your husband said it but still. They had known each other for two days when she scoffed at his 50/50 and said he should put all his money into the pot while hers...who even knows. How, in any reasonable world, is he considered wrong for balking at that? At that time Will doesn’t know this woman from an apple. He doesn’t know that Jasmine isn’t a gold digger. How does he know that his wife of a few days didn’t embark on this experiment SOLEY to get a man to pay her bills (and knock her up, although that revelation came later)? 

[Waterlilly]

16 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

Will said in the show that he wanted to save up to buy an investment property that would generate income. That income could have supplemented his own working income. Or, Will may thought if the investment property generated enough income for him to pay his bills every month and save for retirement with a little fun money left over, he would be happy and willing to live on that while coaching because it is important to him. There are people who don't chase cash and feel if they can cover their necessaries and save, they're happy with that. The only people that find fault with that lifestyle are people who do not agree with it and would rather chase money. Jasmine, it seems, is one of those people and therefore they are not a match. Trying to twist yourself into a compatible person with someone that has beliefs that are the total opposite of your own is an exercise in futility to me. I think people are allowed to be picky and not compromise. Will is perfectly right to want someone who will contribute equally to the finances and Jasmine is perfectly right to want someone who will pay for everything. In this situation, they are not a match and trying to force it to be something it's not seems such a waste of time.

There's also the matter of finding a life partner that will support their partner's passions by contributing fairly to the bills or perhaps even more than half in order to keep the home moving and enabling your spouse to follow his or her passion. Jasmine seemed to want none of that. She seemed disinterested in incorporating anything into their lives except what she herself wanted and Will very likely smelled that from day one. 

Your post made me think of a new show!  “Matched or Unmatched”. Where a panel of (Been there Done that’s like us) would judge if the couples would make it LOL!

[Drogo]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Do we really know how much each of them makes relative to the other?  I don't think we do.  That was part of the story that I think production deliberately left out. 

No doubt if there was a 7:1 (or 2:1) pay disparity we would've heard about it. 

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

 When I met my husband he was in a band and wanted to do that forever. Of course that's not gonna pay the bills and I wanted a nice house and good schools and lessons for future children and security, I was also working full time so it wasn't all on him. 

This is a great example of a partnership. The husband did not have to give up his passion hobby because of bills because his wife was working and "it was not all on him." Judging from Jasmine's attitude all season, I cannot see her having this same view. At all.

[Jeanne222]

If Will was cheap maybe he didn't want to pay 100%, 50% or nothing!  He just wanted out!  He was always kind of a mystery to me because he was so quiet.

I always wondered what he was thinking?

[Ohwell]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

If he was really attracted to her that should have been enough to get his mother running. 

Now we're dragging Will's mother into this mess? 😲 😄

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Am I remembering wrong? I would have sworn the money conversation was a one time deal on the honeymoon. Meaning Will mentioned 50/50 once. And then later we found that they’d compromised on 70/30 but it wasn’t shown so we have no idea how those negotiations actually went. 

I don’t get how he’s too rigid about his beliefs but it’s totally fine for her to insist on 100%.

I realize your husband said it but still. They had known each other for two days when she scoffed at his 50/50 and said he should put all his money into the pot while hers...who even knows. How, in any reasonable world, is he considered wrong for balking at that? At that time Will doesn’t know this woman from an apple. He doesn’t know that Jasmine isn’t a gold digger. How does he know that his wife of a few days didn’t embark on this experiment SOLEY to get a man to pay her bills (and knock her up, although that revelation came later)? 

I just asked my husband what made him say that about Will and he said his answer about him being cheap was based on what he saw coming from Will alone in general, and that even if Jasmine said she wanted him to pay the bills he still came off as cheap in response.  He said if Will wasn't cheap he would have wanted to negotiate more with her when she said she wanted him to pay the bills.  It didn't mean he shouldn't have balked about that any more than Kristine shouldn't have balked at Keith, but he shouldn't have been so firm about the 50-50 and then used that as his reason to give up totally on the relationship.  I don't really think that's how it worked out, anyway.  I think he was already leaning toward not liking Jasmine so his rigid, uncompromising response was a deliberate move to shut her down.

My husband says that if a woman said that to him he wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that she was using the experiment solely to get a man to pay her bills, especially a woman like Jasmine that has a career and owns her own home (which sounds like me, I agree with that).  He says he presumed Jasmine was thinking about a time in her life when she might have children and not be working for a while, etc., and was trying to feel out Will's willingness to have her back when in that situation.  It looked to my husband that Will responded so negatively to that because he had ambitions of chucking his corporate job for a low paying position as a coach starting from the ground up and would not be making that much money.  And that's why he was so against Jasmine expecting him to pay most or all of the bills.  And my husband thinks that's irresponsible and cheap.  Why should he get to fulfill his dream at her expense?  What about her dream if that includes children?  He didn't seem to want to compromise on any of that.  He made no talking head to say he was willing to compromise to please Jasmine.  Meanwhile Jasmine is on record saying she had revised her position on the financial split. 

So I agree with Mr. Yeah No that Will is looking kind of cheap and selfish when you don't factor in what Jasmine wants.  Although I think both of them should have what they want to some extent - The problem is that he did not seem willing to negotiate or compromise.  He didn't seem willing to accept anything other than 50-50 on everything right down the middle.  That's kind of harsh and unrealistic even at best, IMHO, and I don't care if that was something he said in response to what he saw as Jasmine's unrealistic expectations.  He should say what he means or not say anything no matter what she said to him.  Their situation couldn't possibly be so clear cut, and there are always circumstances that might make a different split more equitable.  I seriously wonder if HE isn't the one looking for someone to support HIM while he pursues his coaching dream, and that's where his remarks were coming from.  If he wasn't coming from that place he certainly did nothing to convince me otherwise.

I personally wonder if all of Jasmine's needling of Will was in response to him being so closed to her from the get-go.  Like she sensed that he wasn't into her right away so she started in with the cutting remarks, putting down his background, etc.  Like she was engaging in sour grapes.  Which wasn't right and made her look bad because he wasn't showing any outward behavior that looked deserving of it.  I can understand her response if he was just a lump toward her from the very beginning - which it looks to me like he was.  Him sleeping at the mini-moon was just another example of his lump-ish selfish behavior.  Like he couldn't force himself to be sociable because it might please Jasmine?  It's like whatever Jasmine wanted he did the exact opposite because he wasn't into her.  But even if he wasn't into her that IMO was still selfish behavior.  Be a human being.

[aphroditewitch]

14 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Genuine question here...given the vilification of Dave/Will, and the oh-it's-just-editing for Amber/Jasmine, are there any females in the franchise that you think have ever done anything negative?

In this very thread I've talked about how horrible Sam was several seasons ago. And of course there was Mia, she is a criminal end of story. I'm not going to criticize Ashley for not liking David because he was also a criminal. I have never said the women on the show are perfect. 

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

No doubt if there was a 7:1 (or 2:1) pay disparity we would've heard about it. 

Perhaps, but I think there was a reason the show was so hush-hush about Will's job in general.  Like he was under pressure not to talk about the company and his salary so they just left any discussion that might reveal anything about it out.  He wasn't even on LinkedIn when I looked and I don't think we were ever let on on where he works.  I know that if I went on this show my former Fortune 100 company would have probably asked me not to reveal that stuff either.  Several people on the board (me included) felt that there was a lot left out of his and Jasmine's financial discussion and that it felt weirdly edited and did not make sense in some ways.

[Empress1]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps, but I think there was a reason the show was so hush-hush about Will's job in general.  Like he was under pressure not to talk about the company and his salary so they just left any discussion that might reveal anything about it out.  He wasn't even on LinkedIn when I looked and I don't think we were ever let on on where he works.  I know that if I went on this show my former Fortune 100 company would have probably asked me not to reveal that stuff either.  Several people on the board (me included) felt that there was a lot left out of his and Jasmine's financial discussion and that it felt weirdly edited and did not make sense in some ways.

None of them talked about their salaries and not all of them talked about where they worked - actually, I don't think we've ever heard the participants say "I work at Morgan Stanley" or whatever, on any season. Jasmine was listed as an assistant director; the show never said "assistant director of what." People here dug that up, it wasn't on the show. We never heard where Luke, Kate, Stephanie, or Kristine worked either (e.g. was Kristine a realtor at Coldwell Banker?) We didn't hear about their debt either, if they had it. The budget discussion was completely omitted from this season. I think the show renting housing for them was a big misstep because it really omitted the need for the budget conversation.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Empress1

[aphroditewitch]

17 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps, but I think there was a reason the show was so hush-hush about Will's job in general.  Like he was under pressure not to talk about the company and his salary so they just left any discussion that might reveal anything about it out.  He wasn't even on LinkedIn when I looked and I don't think we were ever let on on where he works.  I know that if I went on this show my former Fortune 100 company would have probably asked me not to reveal that stuff either.  Several people on the board (me included) felt that there was a lot left out of his and Jasmine's financial discussion and that it felt weirdly edited and did not make sense in some ways.

It is typical of reality shows. I remember one years ago where the show changed a person's job to customer service rep even though that person was a bartender. Pastor Cal made a big deal about Jasmine being an Assistant Director but the title means very little. I knew someone who was an assistant director but it was at a daycare and she didn't make a living wage. 

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

None of them talked about their salaries and not all of them talked about where they worked - actually, I don't think we've ever heard the participants say "I work at Morgan Stanley" or whatever, on any season. Jasmine was listed as an assistant director; the show never said "assistant director of what." People here dug that up, it wasn't on the show. We never heard where Luke, Kate, Stephanie, or Kristine worked either (e.g. was Kristine a realtor at Coldwell Banker?) We didn't hear about their debt either, if they had it. The budget discussion was completely omitted from this season. I think the show renting housing for them was a big misstep because it really omitted the need for the budget conversation.

Yes but a lot of them have promoted businesses plus their LinkedIn profiles are very public with their salaries and company names.  Jasmine's is very public but she works in non-profit so they are a little looser about that stuff, as are smaller companies.  Drogo said that if there was an income disparity we would have heard about it but I disgree with that based on several things including the fact that salaries are never revealed on the show plus Will's information is so hush-hush I'm sure it has something to do with his company making him stay very quiet about that and perhaps shut down any LinkedIn profile he had.

1 minute ago, aphroditewitch said:

It is typical of reality shows. I remember one years ago where the show changed a person's job to customer service rep even though that person was a bartender. Pastor Cal made a big deal about Jasmine being an Assistant Director but the title means very little. I knew someone who was an assistant director but it was at a daycare and she didn't make a living wage. 

Jasmine's info. is very public on LinkedIn, including her company name and title.  And on Glassdoor you can even estimate her salary.

[aphroditewitch]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Jasmine's info. is very public on LinkedIn, including her company name and title.  And on Glassdoor you can even estimate her salary.

Stephanie, Kate, and AJ are the same way with their Linkedin.  The only time I remember salaries being more specifically revealed on the show was with Tom and Lilly and I remember people thinking that Lilly was being dishonest because they felt the amount was too low. 

[seacliffsal]

So, I've been rewatching Game of Thrones in preparation for the new season.  At the end of the most recent episode I watched there was a scene of Littlefinger smirking as he was listening to Sansa thinking that he had appropriately manipulated her.  And there it was...the smirk.  It looked exactly like Luke's smirk whenever he was talking (manipulating) with Kate.  I knew Luke's smirk reminded me of something; now I realize he was reminding me of Littlefinger and his nefarious attempts to manipulate his way to the Iron Throne (I apologize to those who do not watch Game of Thrones and therefore do not get the reference; however, I will state that there are many references made in this thread that I don't necessarily understand so I hope it's okay). 

[Empress1]

26 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Will's information is so hush-hush I'm sure it has something to do with his company making him stay very quiet about that and perhaps shut down any LinkedIn profile he had.

He could also just be a private person who stays off social media. (I view LinkedIn as different from other social media sites - more work-related than social; my LinkedIn connections don't overlap much with my other social media connections - but not everyone does.)

28 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

salaries are never revealed on the show

They sometimes are, if the participants choose to just say what they make. I remember Danielle saying she made $60K a year - she said something like "I think we make around the same, I make $60K," and Cory agreed. It's not a rule that salaries aren't revealed, I don't think - I think it's just up to the participants' discretion.

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

They sometimes are, if the participants choose to just say what they make. I remember Danielle saying she made $60K a year - she said something like "I think we make around the same, I make $60K," and Cory agreed. It's not a rule that salaries aren't revealed, I don't think - I think it's just up to the participants' discretion.

Actually that was my original point, that there's probably some reason Will didn't want to reveal anything about his job, company or salary and that's why it wasn't specifically mentioned on the show.  Either he or his company didn't want to disclose those things.  It was not necessarily left out because he and Jasmine made the same salary.

[love2lovebadtv]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

None of them talked about their salaries and not all of them talked about where they worked - actually, I don't think we've ever heard the participants say "I work at Morgan Stanley" or whatever, on any season. Jasmine was listed as an assistant director; the show never said "assistant director of what." People here dug that up, it wasn't on the show. We never heard where Luke, Kate, Stephanie, or Kristine worked either (e.g. was Kristine a realtor at Coldwell Banker?) We didn't hear about their debt either, if they had it. The budget discussion was completely omitted from this season. I think the show renting housing for them was a big misstep because it really omitted the need for the budget conversation.

This season was definitely different. Jasmine brought money into the conversation about gender roles but the budget conversation the way the show has done in the past wasn't there. 

[love2lovebadtv]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps, but I think there was a reason the show was so hush-hush about Will's job in general.  Like he was under pressure not to talk about the company and his salary so they just left any discussion that might reveal anything about it out.  He wasn't even on LinkedIn when I looked and I don't think we were ever let on on where he works.  I know that if I went on this show my former Fortune 100 company would have probably asked me not to reveal that stuff either.  Several people on the board (me included) felt that there was a lot left out of his and Jasmine's financial discussion and that it felt weirdly edited and did not make sense in some ways.

I didn't find Will to be any more hush hush about his job than the other participants. He's been on LinkedIn the entire time. We didn't learn anything much about the other participants' jobs either. There was a lot left out of everyone's financial discussion this season. It came about with Jasmine and Will when she brought up gender roles on the honeymoon. I remember AJ saying he and Stephanie would have joint finances for the household bills and their own separate accounts for things they might want to spend their money on, like gifts or whatever. And of course I remember Jasmine and Will with the 50/50 and 70/30. But I don't remember ther other couples' financial discussions. Did I miss that or did it not happen? I find the financial conversations especially interesting. 

[Matty]

Will wasn't into Jasmine and never used her for sex when she came on to him. Luke wasn't into Kate and used her for sex when she came on to him. Who's the creep? And AJ still bugs me. His thing with Stephanie won't last.

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

But I don't remember ther other couples' financial discussions. Did I miss that or did it not happen? I find the financial conversations especially interesting. 

It didn't happen. I was particularly disappointed because I know Philly, so I wanted to hear about where they lived and worked, how much they could afford to pay in rent, etc. I remember on the Atlanta season, we heard explicitly how much the rent and mortgages on their existing places were and how much they paid to rent their new places, I remember David disclosing his salary, etc. I remember Sam got a job transfer and the place they chose made her commute awful, which I think is how they ended up back in her place. We heard how much Tristan paid in rent on his old place and we learned about Danielle's $15K credit card debt. None of that was discussed this season.

[Claire Voyant]

Years ago, I dated a guy who was cute, nice, polite, thoughtful, kind and was crazy about me.  I, otoh, felt no chemistry what-so-ever.  None.  Zip.  Nada. 

My mother was so confused why I didn't like him.  To be honest, I didn't understand myself, but the very last thing in the world I wanted was to kiss him, and he wanted me to kiss him SOOOO bad.  

Despite my wishing I could like him, there just wasn't anything in me to give to him.  🤷‍♀️   Maybe that was what their problem was.  Something as simple as no chemistry.  It happens. 

[aphroditewitch]

45 minutes ago, Matty said:

Will wasn't into Jasmine and never used her for sex when she came on to him. Luke wasn't into Kate and used her for sex when she came on to him. Who's the creep? And AJ still bugs me. His thing with Stephanie won't last.

There is more than one determining factor when going into what makes someone a creep. I don't think Will is a creep but I do think he is a jerk. Telling Jasmine he was attracted to her multiple times and he claimed it was a communication issue. But it wasn't. That is what makes him a jerk. Even in the end, he could not be honest about what the real issue is. I think most women would rather a guy tell them he is not attracted to them or not into them instead of acting like if she can just be better at XYZ, the relationship will work.

The money issue was a red herring because none of these couples combine finances during the experiment. And honestly, even for the ones that choose to stay married, they should maintain separate finances until at least a year later, don't  end a lease or sell a home until things are further along. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by aphroditewitch

[scruffy73]

I think it is incredible, and not in a good way, that folks try to find out the places of employment and salaries of these people. Salaries? Really? Just bc they came on a show, that doesn’t mean that EVERY aspect of their lives are open for knowledge, discussion, or judgment. Hell, Will is being called cheap bc he MIGHT want to take a lower paying job which would, then, keep Jasmine from having her desire for children. WTF? NONE of that has been said and probably not even discussed between THEM. The only thing we know is that Jas pulled the “man pays the bills” out and that was probably the beginning of the end.

and just bc AJ and Steph are putting their money in one pot for family finances and having separate accounts for personal things, we don’t know if there will be conflict about how much each puts in the family account. There could be a 50/50, 60/40, 70/30, etc conversation on the horizon for them as well. They just didn’t do it clumsily in camera.

As for Keith and Kristine, I think Keith will do whatever Kris tells him to do. He is not very Alpha male so he won’t fight for “control”. I don’t think it would take much to make him happy. Their challenge will be to find a nice home they can afford and can live happily together in.

Lukewarm and Kate - he probably wanted her to pay the most so he could pay for therapy for after he slept with her. Asshole!

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

Yes Kristine was straight up about that, but it was balanced with lots of kissing and hugging and loving, of both towards each other. Something seriously missing between Will and Jasmine. If a couple has the affection going for each other, they can pretty much work through any issue. There was a huge wall between them that I kind of blame Will for a little more. He has a new young bride that said something that rubbed him the wrong way and he never recovered from it.

This is true.  But I like to keep things simple.  I just think Will wasn't attracted to Jasmine the way Kristine and Keith were attracted to each other.  

I don't know if it happened when Will first met Jasmine; I don't know if it was when she made fun of him for being afraid of heights; I don't know if it was when she said "the man should pay all the bills" or whatever she said.  At some point, Will just wasn't attracted to Jasmine and that was that.  

Quote

Despite my wishing I could like him, there just wasn't anything in me to give to him.  🤷‍♀️   Maybe that was what their problem was.  Something as simple as no chemistry.  It happens. 

And that is that; full stop end of story.  You're right, it happens.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Neurochick

[Marsh]

35 minutes ago, scruffy73 said:

I think it is incredible, and not in a good way, that folks try to find out the places of employment and salaries of these people. Salaries? Really? Just bc they came on a show, that doesn’t mean that EVERY aspect of their lives are open for knowledge, discussion, or judgment. 

Actually, it kinda does mean that.  It happens on 100% of reality TV shows.  People will dig for info. It's nothing new and surprising to me. I'm not one of the people that digs but when there are 1-2 million people watching a show, you bet at least one person is going to do research on the show's characters and compare that research to what they saw on TV out of curiosity.  It's a numbers game.

I agree with your statements on assumptions about Will though.

[Soup333]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

So, I've been rewatching Game of Thrones in preparation for the new season.  At the end of the most recent episode I watched there was a scene of Littlefinger smirking as he was listening to Sansa thinking that he had appropriately manipulated her.  And there it was...the smirk.  It looked exactly like Luke's smirk whenever he was talking (manipulating) with Kate.  I knew Luke's smirk reminded me of something; now I realize he was reminding me of Littlefinger and his nefarious attempts to manipulate his way to the Iron Throne (I apologize to those who do not watch Game of Thrones and therefore do not get the reference; however, I will state that there are many references made in this thread that I don't necessarily understand so I hope it's okay). 

Luke could only hope to even be on Littlefinger’s level. Most people could see straight through him. Not the case with Littlefinger. 

ETA: I’ve also started my rewatch. On one hand I can’t wait. On the other I want to savor the anticipation. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Soup333

[Ohwell]

Regarding Keith and Kristine being attracted to each other:  I thought it was interesting that he specifically wanted a woman with a big booty and Kristine has a cute little booty, and he was all over her.  Sometimes you don't really know what you want until you get it. 

[Drogo]

Posts have been removed.

This isn't a catch-all topic to discuss participants from other seasons, it's a topic for the S8 decision-day episode. 

This also isn't a place to complain about other posters. That's not welcome at any time in any topic. 

[scruffy73]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Regarding Keith and Kristine being attracted to each other:  I thought it was interesting that he specifically wanted a woman with a big booty and Kristine has a cute little booty, and he was all over her.  Sometimes you don't really know what you want until you get it. 

I bet 1 in every 5 black men will say they want a woman with a big booty! LOLLLLLLL

I’m laughing thinking about how Keith’s eyes would have popped out of his head if he saw Jas coming down the aisle. A dime, that’s top of the line. Cute face, lil waist, and a big behind. (That’s not mine. That’s the Ying Yang Twins) Lollll I still think Jas is the most beautiful out of all the ladies. And, even though no one agrees with me, I think she and Will could have a shot later on if they are open, honest, selfLESS as much as possible. 

[ladle]

On 4/2/2019 at 11:59 PM, antfitz said:

 He seems so narcissistic or conceited. He's not good to look at, I hate the way he grooms himself, and his clothes are ugly.  And he certainly isn't nice or comforting.

How do you feel about him though? 😂

[pdlinda]

8 hours ago, Matty said:

Will wasn't into Jasmine and never used her for sex when she came on to him. Luke wasn't into Kate and used her for sex when she came on to him. Who's the creep? And AJ still bugs me. His thing with Stephanie won't last.

I completely agree that there was absolutely, positively NO CHEMISTRY from Will toward Jasmine.  I took the entire financial brouhaha as a subterfuge for Will to get cover from

 Jasmine's constant romantic "come-on's".  There is no pressure from anyone on the show or elsewhere that could entice Will to proceed with a "marriage" to Jasmine.  Assuming that Jasmine is a respected professional who has earned her credentials and reputation I can't imagine why she couldn't almost immediately sense that Will was not interested in her romantically and conduct herself accordingly.  I saw a clip from the reunion show where Pastor Cal (I believe) is trying to "stir the pot" toward "reconciliation" (of course the clip leaves us hanging) and Jasmine looking at Will with pleading eyes that belie the reality of their situation.  I found that quite undignified and disrespectful to HERSELF.  I never understood women who pursue men who are obviously not interested in them to their great detriment.

[Soup333]

2 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

I bet 1 in every 5 black men will say they want a woman with a big booty! LOLLLLLLL

I’m laughing thinking about how Keith’s eyes would have popped out of his head if he saw Jas coming down the aisle. A dime, that’s top of the line. Cute face, lil waist, and a big behind. (That’s not mine. That’s the Ying Yang Twins) Lollll I still think Jas is the most beautiful out of all the ladies. And, even though no one agrees with me, I think she and Will could have a shot later on if they are open, honest, selfLESS as much as possible. 

Jasmine would have crushed Keith. Lol. 

They might have been momentarily happy - in the bedroom at least. But Keith’s not in the position to finance much of anything and we all know Jasmine wouldn’t be okay with having to use her own precious money to support them. God forbid Keith had to be the denominator in the 70/30 compromise. 

[scruffy73]

7 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Jasmine would have crushed Keith. Lol. 

They might have been momentarily happy - in the bedroom at least. But Keith’s not in the position to finance much of anything and we all know Jasmine wouldn’t be okay with having to use her own precious money to support them. God forbid Keith had to be the denominator in the 70/30 compromise. 

She wouldn’t have had to beg for affection. He is quick with a generous smile and physical attention. But you’re right...Keith wouldn’t be able to pay for 💯 of anything 

[Soup333]

5 minutes ago, scruffy73 said:

She wouldn’t have had to beg for affection. He is quick with a generous smile and physical attention. But you’re right...Keith wouldn’t be able to pay for 💯 of anything 

No, she wouldn’t have. Keith is very affectionate with Kristine. But I don’t think his potential happiness with Jasmine would have lasted long at all. He wouldn’t have been undercooking her bacon so she wouldn’t have had any issues there but Keith needs a positive and supportive influence and that ain’t Jas. 

[ladle]

Luke, in a voiceover leading up to Decision Day: "I just want to be married once.  I don't ever want to be married twice." 

Oh, honey, after this airs and everyone sees it, I don't think you need to worry about ever being married twice.

[Gem 10]

23 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

If Will was cheap maybe he didn't want to pay 100%, 50% or nothing!  He just wanted out!  He was always kind of a mystery to me because he was so quiet.

I always wondered what he was thinking?

First of all, they didn’t marry for love, therefore didn’t trust each other about finances.  When I married, my husband set up the 401-k and stocks, etc.  He gave me free reign to handle both salaries, savings, bills, etc.  He wanted nothing to do with it.  In fact, the only time he ever paid a bill was when I was in the hospital for surgery.  We were both sensible about money, bought the house, put three kids thru college, and went on vacations.  If there’s trust there, why is there a problem?  These people don’t know one another yet, therefore can’t decide how the money should go.  Once in awhile over the many years, he will ask me “how much is in the account?” Lol.  Then, he’ll go out and buy a new golf club.  I think he loves golf more than me.  Actually, he does have debit and credit cards .. and cash, and so do I.

[Neurochick]

20 hours ago, Claire Voyant said:

Years ago, I dated a guy who was cute, nice, polite, thoughtful, kind and was crazy about me.  I, otoh, felt no chemistry what-so-ever.  None.  Zip.  Nada. 

My mother was so confused why I didn't like him.  To be honest, I didn't understand myself, but the very last thing in the world I wanted was to kiss him, and he wanted me to kiss him SOOOO bad.  

Despite my wishing I could like him, there just wasn't anything in me to give to him.  🤷‍♀️   Maybe that was what their problem was.  Something as simple as no chemistry.  It happens. 

I wish I could like this post a thousand times.  Because this is how it is.  No rhyme or reason behind it, it's a crapshoot.

That's why I don't blame the experts that much.  You can do all the research available to you, psychological tests, etc and still come out with the same outcome.  Some people click, some don't.  Some marriages work, some don't.  It happens, or it doesn't.  

[Ilovepie]

44 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

That's why I don't blame the experts that much.  You can do all the research available to you, psychological tests, etc and still come out with the same outcome.  Some people click, some don't.  Some marriages work, some don't.  It happens, or it doesn't.  

I one hundred percent agree with you. Will just wasn’t attracted to her. Whether that was looks, behavior, personality, lifestyle choices, goals,etc., it doesn’t matter. It was never going to happen. He didn’t handle it great, but as we have seen before, including this season, there are much worse ways to handle not being attracted to your match.....

[Stinamaia]

I like both Jasmine and Will. I have sympathy for both and criticism for both.  I think both of them want to be right, and both are a bit rigid.  Both were dismissive of each other in different ways.  Will is more my cup of tea, but my heart goes out to Jasmine because she does want to be loved but doesn’t know how to create a safe place for someone else to be vulnerable.   They didn’t find a way to bring out the best in one another.  I’m sad that Jasmine got hurt.  I’m glad Will didn’t prolong things.

I do wonder what would have happened if they both had felt affection for one another. 

[LuvMyShows]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

That's why I don't blame the experts that much.  You can do all the research available to you, psychological tests, etc and still come out with the same outcome.  Some people click, some don't.  Some marriages work, some don't.  It happens, or it doesn't.  

I still blame the experts, but not because their marriage success rate is so low...frankly, I'm surprised the rate is as high as it is on this show, given how unpredictable a lasting, genuine love connection is.  What I blame the experts for, is the abysmal job they do of matching people up supposedly for love, when it seems like some (all?) of the matches are for drama.   

[Neurochick]

16 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

What I blame the experts for, is the abysmal job they do of matching people up supposedly for love, when it seems like some (all?) of the matches are for drama.   

Maybe, but it's still a crapshoot.  You can pair people up for drama and they end up falling in love and vice versa.  Besides, of course they're going to match people up for drama, this is a reality TV show after all.

[Gem 10]

18 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

I like both Jasmine and Will. I have sympathy for both and criticism for both.  I think both of them want to be right, and both are a bit rigid.  Both were dismissive of each other in different ways.  Will is more my cup of tea, but my heart goes out to Jasmine because she does want to be loved but doesn’t know how to create a safe place for someone else to be vulnerable.   They didn’t find a way to bring out the best in one another.  I’m sad that Jasmine got hurt.  I’m glad Will didn’t prolong things.

I do wonder what would have happened if they both had felt affection for one another. 

Most people said Will was quiet and had no personality.  I disagree.  He was quiet and rigid with Jasmine, but when he went out with all the guys together without the girls, he was smiling, laughing a lot and very happy and verbal.  He didn’t have ANY chemistry with Jasmine at all.  You could see it a mile away.  He needed an outgoing, bubbly, fun girl who would bring out the best in him.  He could have had sex with her as they were married, but was a gentleman and didn’t as he knew he was going to say “no” in the end.

[Gem 10]

My God.  Marriage is hard enough even if you are in love with someone.  I can’t imagine getting married to a stranger, no less.  With the divorce rate what it is, like Neurochick said, “it’s a crapshoot”.  It’s all about patience and respect, and one partner usually gives in more than the other I found.  I gave in more than him, because he was a spoiled brat and still is, lol.  He loves his golf and sports and I give in, and if I ask him to go to the store ten times in one day, he will.  So it evens out.  He also takes us to Disney World, which he hates, but does it.  LMAO.  Compromise.

[scruffy73]

52 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

I like both Jasmine and Will. I have sympathy for both and criticism for both.  I think both of them want to be right, and both are a bit rigid.  Both were dismissive of each other in different ways.  Will is more my cup of tea, but my heart goes out to Jasmine because she does want to be loved but doesn’t know how to create a safe place for someone else to be vulnerable.   They didn’t find a way to bring out the best in one another.  I’m sad that Jasmine got hurt.  I’m glad Will didn’t prolong things.

I do wonder what would have happened if they both had felt affection for one another. 

This is a perfect way to capture Will and Jasmine’s relationship. Neither gave the other a safe space to grow into a healthy connection.

[Neurochick]

Lifetime sucks.

I watched the show live and today decided to watch it on demand and then online.  Both services cut things out so much that I stopped watching.  From what I saw, they cut a lot of what Stephanie said to AJ; they also cut Jasmine saying she wanted to stay married and just cut to Will saying he wanted a divorce.  I'm glad I watched the show "live."

[Ilovepie]

4 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

It’s all about patience and respect, and one partner usually gives in more than the other I found.  I gave in more than him, because he was a spoiled brat and still is, lol.  He loves his golf and sports and I give in, and if I ask him to go to the store ten times in one day, he will.  So it evens out.  He also takes us to Disney World, which he hates, but does it.  LMAO.  Compromise.

Boy, you said it! It seems like most of the people who sign up for this are looking for a fairy tale, and real life just is not. Also, no one is a perfect princess or knight in shining armor. Everyone is just human - imperfect with their own garbage to deal with. Most of these participants don’t seem willing to work it out, even when there is chemistry. This is why I hope AJ & Steph and K&K at least try. With both of these couples, there is chemistry, affection and enjoyment of each other. I hope they can work through the rest together.

And @Gem 10, I relate to your Disney situation. My whole extended family is Disneyland freaks, and now my kids as well. We go frequently, and my poor husband, who is not a native Californian, cannot stand it (too crowded, too expensive). He endures and continues to go because we all love it. 😋

[Gem 10]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Lifetime sucks.

I watched the show live and today decided to watch it on demand and then online.  Both services cut things out so much that I stopped watching.  From what I saw, they cut a lot of what Stephanie said to AJ; they also cut Jasmine saying she wanted to stay married and just cut to Will saying he wanted a divorce.  I'm glad I watched the show "live."

Why don’t u just tape it on the dvr live, and then watch it as many times that u want?  I do that with this show and the Housewives of N.Y., which I watch about three times during the week to catch every word.  This was you can fast forward the commercials, especially “Honey Bunches of Oats”, lol.

[lids]

16 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Most people said Will was quiet and had no personality.  I disagree.  He was quiet and rigid with Jasmine, but when he went out with all the guys together without the girls, he was smiling, laughing a lot and very happy and verbal.  He didn’t have ANY chemistry with Jasmine at all.  You could see it a mile away.  He needed an outgoing, bubbly, fun girl who would bring out the best in him.  He could have had sex with her as they were married, but was a gentleman and didn’t as he knew he was going to say “no” in the end.

I just don’t think there are only two choices in this scenario where Will could either not have sex with Jasmine because he knew he wasn’t going to pick her or have sex with Jasmine and be a creep. He could have done something in the middle where he genuinely tried to generate physical chemistry with her and then if it didn’t work out at least he could say he gave Jasmine his all. The show is built on the premise that if two people are a scientific match they can make it work - even cultivating attraction. I don’t think this is true. I think without attraction, there is no motivation. But everybody who signs up for this show agrees with “science,” including Will, so if he did see Jasmine and decide to check out so as to not lead her on, he was ignoring the purpose of the experiment.

Very early on Pastor Cal told them not to move into the friendzone - Will agreed. On decision day, Will proudly said Jasmine had become one of his good friends. So he moved her to the friendzone! It was like he ignored what PasCal had told them. Also, when Jas would try to do the intimacy exercises, which were to, you know, generate intimacy, Will would take a very clinical approach. Hence the kissing experiment where they were supposed to find closeness in kissing and Will’s summation of it was that it was awkward.

I don’t fault him for being honest, but he was supposed to be honest and then motivated to move those situations into places where love and attraction could grow. I don’t think he wanted to do that, so he avoided trying, and I do think Jas is justified in feeling cheated on that aspect. Also if he had just said he realized he didn’t want to try, I would have had so much respect for him. I know the show makes it difficult for people to be genuinely honest. So in the end, we got faux-honesty and I can see how that would reck havoc on the other person’s emotions since they can’t fulfill their part of the experiment but they have to keep trying.

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Why don’t u just tape it on the dvr live, and then watch it as many times that u want?  I do that with this show and the Housewives of N.Y., which I watch about three times during the week to catch every word.  This was you can fast forward the commercials, especially “Honey Bunches of Oats”, lol.

I don't have a DVR.  And it still sucks that you have to do that.  I'm paying for Lifetime, why should I pay for a DVR too?