S04.E02: Arousal Template

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Axe hits it off with a venture capitalist. Chuck sets his sights on a  new position. Wendy asks Chuck to make a change. 

Original air date 2019.03.24

[EtheltoTillie]

Since they are showing this on demand every Sunday, I already watched it.  Do we have to use a spoiler tag?

[EtheltoTillie]

I think this show has jumped the shark.  I'm only watching with half my attention. I'm reading or doing puzzles or knitting.  I just don't care about the characters and their confusing round robin of rivalries.  Stories now just have no basis in reality for me.

[scrb]

Bobby gets a new blonde girlfriend, who happens to be a foul-mouthed supposed private equity big shot.

RIP Lara and whatever the names of the sons.  No time for joint custody!

But his big play is to get banks to deny Taylor “leverage” or capital to make huge investments.  So that means more cheesy accent lines for Malkovich, this time to try to get Taylor to launder money for Russian mobsters.

The Kozlovs are really an obvious caricature of the Russian mafia.

Meanwhile after his gopher duties last week, Chuck is ready to get the blessing of the commish for AG of NY.  Connerty finds out and threatens Chuck who says he will roll over him like Tienamen Square.

Really in poor taste, unless the writers thinks brutal repression in the form of tanks rolling over college students is their idea of comedy.

Taylor gets the same banks which wouldn’t give her leverage to cut off the Kozlovs.

Then later, Maria threatens to get Taylor leverage because Bobby destroyed the rival of one of her companies.

Finally Grigor will let the banks give Taylor leverage.

Man these banks are so easily manipulated by anyone!

[Joimiaroxeu]

I feel like Taylor is nearing the end of their rope with Axe blocking them at every turn and will ask Gegor to take him out. Out as in a hit.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I feel like Taylor is nearing the end of their rope with Axe blocking them at every turn and will ask Gegor to take him out. Out as in a hit.

There still isn’t a consensus on what term people who don’t identify with either gender use.  I like “ze”. Or some prefer not using pronouns at all and just use the person’s name each time.  

I keep thinking of Taylor’s whole team when they use her name and then they use the pronoun “they” in the next sentence.  Do any other shows use this term?

[Lemons]

The stereotyping of the Russians is so over the top. At least get some Russians with legitimate accents.   Malkolvich should get a worst accent award.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

1 hour ago, Lemons said:

There still isn’t a consensus on what term people who don’t identify with either gender use.  I like “ze”. Or some prefer not using pronouns at all and just use the person’s name each time. 

Okay. But, in the show's universe, Taylor has expressed a preference for they/them/their. I'm following that convention, and in general think people should be called what they say they want to be called.

[Lemons]

29 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Okay. But, in the show's universe, Taylor has expressed a preference for they/them/their. I'm following that convention, and in general think people should be called what they say they want to be called.

Except some people using the term haven’t met her yet, so that’s not it.  Like the new character, the super rich blonde woman.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

25 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Except some people using the term haven’t met her yet, so that’s not it.  Like the new character, the super rich blonde woman.  

People in that NYC world of high finance and venture capitalism probably know of Taylor even if there haven't been personal introductions yet. There likely have been pieces about Taylor in financial media where it might've been indicated, perhaps as an editorial note, that they use non-binary pronouns. Taylor, like the actor who portrays them, perhaps has a Wikipedia page which indicates their use of non-binary pronouns. I think there are any number of ways people who haven't met Taylor yet would know about it. 

I think if the show occasionally takes some dramatic license it's probably out of respect for the actor's expressed preference. Clearly the show's writers and producers support the actor's wishes on the matter and are willing to suffer some minor plot holes to do so. I'm not bothered by it.

[scrb]

BTW, looks like Wendy has had enough of the BDSM but Chuck won't give it up easily and the dominatrix says Chuck can't ever give it up, always has to be dominated.

Ooh boy, maybe Chuck should be spending more time with a therapist instead of wheeling and dealing.

Wendy probably realizes that it's a huge vulnerability for Chuck, which may prevent him from achiveing his ambitions.

In previous seasons, he struggled paying the bills with his salary but now out of a job, he maintains an office and has some trainer come out to personally stretch him?

[The Solution]

7 hours ago, Lemons said:

There still isn’t a consensus on what term people who don’t identify with either gender use.  I like “ze”. Or some prefer not using pronouns at all and just use the person’s name each time.  

I keep thinking of Taylor’s whole team when they use her name and then they use the pronoun “they” in the next sentence.  Do any other shows use this term?

I like "it." I know that's insensitive, but "they" is plural, and I'm too much of a grammar stickler to use that. When you learn to conjugate verbs in any language, third person is always described as "he/she/it."

[JennyMominFL]

They is not always singular

they

/T͟Hā/

pronoun

1. 

used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.

"the two men could get life sentences if they are convicted"

2. 

used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.

"ask someone if they could help"

[hoodooznoodooz]

16 hours ago, GussieK said:

I think this show has jumped the shark.  I'm only watching with half my attention. I'm reading or doing puzzles or knitting.  I just don't care about the characters and their confusing round robin of rivalries.  Stories now just have no basis in reality for me.

The writers are annoying me. Are they trying to seem really “cool”? Thinner than Kate Moss after a juice fast/cleanse/whatever warrants a smile of appreciation from Bobby. And Wags is just OTT always with his misogynistic bon mots. I think I am done. 

[EtheltoTillie]

24 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

They is not always singular

"

used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.

"ask someone if they could help"

This locution has always been employed in informal speech. It was considered incorrect for written work. (Fun fact: I used to be a magazine copy editor.) Now that trans nonbinary peeps have adopted it as a personal pronoun we have to use it in ways that may be confusing. I work sometimes with a person who uses they as a pronoun and sometimes there is confusion about whether others are talking about the individual or a group. We move on. It’s the new world. 

3 hours ago, The Solution said:

I like "it." I know that's insensitive, but "they" is plural, and I'm too much of a grammar stickler to use that. When you learn to conjugate verbs in any language, third person is always described as "he/she/it."

As a grammar stickler I’ve had to adapt. People are given their own choice of pronoun. 

[Pop Tart]

10 hours ago, scrb said:

BTW, looks like Wendy has had enough of the BDSM but Chuck won't give it up easily and the dominatrix says Chuck can't ever give it up, always has to be dominated.

I thought her sudden ennui and concern about the BDSM was out of left field. In every scene we've seen in the past few seasons where Chuck and Wendy are engaged in this way, they're both engaged. To the point that they've visited others (the woman we saw talk to Wendy) for the lifestyle. We've never seen Wendy question it or look like she was upset that Chuck could only participate in that way. 

The way it was written in this episode was that Wendy was talking with the other woman investor about wants and desires and expressing (with her facial expressions and some of what she actually said) that she wants something different than what she does have with Chuck. That also came through in their love scene and when she questioned the dom female and with her running at the end of the episode. I don't question that a person could have those questions about their relationship, but with the way it is coming up so suddenly with Wendy when everything we've been shown in the past has been the opposite of this. 

It just seems part and parcel with so much else they've changed about Wendy's characterization. Makes me wonder if there are brand new writers on board this season? 

Other than that, I quite enjoyed this. I actually love when they're all maneuvering as they were last night and how previous players and schemers keep coming into the mix. I did think the way in which the female CEO went from being angry with Bobby about his maneuvers to all right, 'I'm in to take Taylor down' was a bit abrupt and I'm hoping that means she will do some scheming down the road to make clear she isn't just going to allow Bobby to run things. I'd love it if she was running a double-blind on him and was going to support Taylor in some way. But of course that could just be because I love Taylor.

[Lemons]

9 hours ago, The Solution said:

I like "it." I know that's insensitive, but "they" is plural, and I'm too much of a grammar stickler to use that. When you learn to conjugate verbs in any language, third person is always described as "he/she/it."

"it" refers to a nonperson so I don't think that works either.  

Another thing that bothered about the character.  Taylor doesn't identify as a man or woman.  So why was Taylor so adverse to women's clothes and why the preference to classic men's clothes?  I would think it wouldn't matter.  Except the horrible wig of course. And it is a character so the actor's real life shouldn't matter.  

[JennyMominFL]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:48 AM, GussieK said:

This locution has always been employed in informal speech. It was considered incorrect for written work. (Fun fact: I used to be a magazine copy editor.) Now that trans nonbinary peeps have adopted it as a personal pronoun we have to use it in ways that may be confusing. I work sometimes with a person who uses they as a pronoun and sometimes there is confusion about whether others are talking about the individual or a group. We move on. It’s the new world. 

As a grammar stickler I’ve had to adapt. People are given their own choice of pronoun. 

Thats fair. I would not use it in an academic paper. I did write a paper once about Thomas(ine) Hall. Thomasine was born in the UK as a female in the late 1500’s, raised as one,  but served in the military as male and came to the colonies as a male indentured servent, They were involved in a court case in Jamestown in which the court declared them to be. both legally both male and female. Talk about complicated. In my paper i had had to use he in some situations and she in others. I think I went with they at some point, but this was a very unusual case. I think I may have been better off just using T. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[edhopper]

Okay, enough with the pop culture references. As if every 26 year old would know Dinero and Pacino's names from Heat, or the intricacies of Starship Troopers.

it's not all that clever.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, edhopper said:

Okay, enough with the pop culture references. As if every 26 year old would know Dinero and Pacino's names from Heat, or the intricacies of Starship Troopers.

it's not all that clever.

The references definitely has delighted some reviewers.

But isn't it just about every character who peppers in these cultural references in their dialog?

Is it the writers winking at viewers, telling us how smart and culturally with-it they are?  Or are we suppose to believe that Bobby, Taylor, Chuck and others are so hip despite all having careers which are very demanding of their time?

[txhorns79]

On 3/25/2019 at 3:06 AM, scrb said:

In previous seasons, he struggled paying the bills with his salary but now out of a job, he maintains an office and has some trainer come out to personally stretch him? 

I did wonder why Chuck had that huge office, apparently with a secretary, when he has no paying clients and barely any work.  That seems like a huge amount of money to waste each month on appearances for someone who isn't at Axe-levels of wealth.   

[Mardo2044]

On 3/24/2019 at 11:30 PM, Lemons said:

There still isn’t a consensus on what term people who don’t identify with either gender use.  I like “ze”. Or some prefer not using pronouns at all and just use the person’s name each time.  

I keep thinking of Taylor’s whole team when they use her name and then they use the pronoun “they” in the next sentence.  Do any other shows use this term?

They announced themselves as Taylor and their pronoun of preference.  The show has had the characters respect that.  

[Mardo2044]

On 3/25/2019 at 3:06 AM, scrb said:

BTW, looks like Wendy has had enough of the BDSM but Chuck won't give it up easily and the dominatrix says Chuck can't ever give it up, always has to be dominated.

This is an interesting twist.  I had not anticipated that she was not satisfied with their sexlife/style.  It now seems maybe she got into it because he was into it.

[ladle]

I find it really unrealistic that every character, including Gregor with his tenuous grasp of English, so willingly and fluidly uses plural pronouns in reference to Taylor. I know a few non-binary/genderqueer people and that has just not been their experience. 

[jelte]

Bobby and her are dining at The Broken Shaker Tiki Bar. They are sharing a bottle with a white or orange content. Does anybody know what drink that is??

Thank you

[Diapason Untuned]

15 hours ago, ladle said:

I find it really unrealistic that every character, including Gregor with his tenuous grasp of English, so willingly and fluidly uses plural pronouns in reference to Taylor. I know a few non-binary/genderqueer people and that has just not been their experience. 

As has been mentioned before, the writers are trying to be respectful of non-binary people, by having everyone call Taylor by their preferred pronoun.

[Lemons]

8 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

As has been mentioned before, the writers are trying to be respectful of non-binary people, by having everyone call Taylor by their preferred pronoun.

So if someone writes a show or movie where every character doesn't get the pronoun correct or even understand the use of the word they, that person are being disrespectful?  

[jvr]

I hope the successful blonde lady is playing Axe. I'm sure we all saw them ending up in bed but I was hoping it wouldn't happen. Are we not going to see Lara this season? Thank goodness if so! But I'm just curious, I can't recall seeing her in the season trailers. And yes, I guess we won't be seeing him pining for time with his sons either. 

On 3/25/2019 at 1:29 PM, Pop Tart said:

I thought her sudden ennui and concern about the BDSM was out of left field. In every scene we've seen in the past few seasons where Chuck and Wendy are engaged in this way, they're both engaged. To the point that they've visited others (the woman we saw talk to Wendy) for the lifestyle. We've never seen Wendy question it or look like she was upset that Chuck could only participate in that way. 

I've gone back and forth on this. We first see them when they are deep into this BDSM life, but we didn't seem the initial introduction. I can totally see Wendy starting to do this because it's something Chuck needs but that doesn't mean she didn't also love it as well once she tried it. Because I agree that nothing we saw prior to this scene suggested she wasn't a very willing participant and not just going with the flow for Chucks sake. I think we needed something before this to ease us into why she now feels like she needs something different, or that this isn't what she wants anymore. That one scene with the Axe Cap group where someone questioned her bedroom life wasn't nearly enough. Maybe there was something else I missed though.

This show is hard to flow back into at the beginning of the season with such a big off season. I keep having to remind myself of why Taylor is acting this way (they are super different from the person we first met, at least philosophically it seems) and why Bobby is so mad. I think the swap to Taylor as Bobby's adversary is necessary for the survival of the show (it's probably on its last leg anyway), to give us a break from the same old Chuck vs Bobby for a second.

[MJS]

On 3/27/2019 at 8:54 PM, Lemons said:

So if someone writes a show or movie where every character doesn't get the pronoun correct or even understand the use of the word they, that person are being disrespectful?  

Depends on context.  There’s no way to extrapolate an answer about this character on this show to all characters on every show. 

[quedavid]

What is becoming clear in this theory is that Taylor and Axe are actually working together to rip the Russian. We all know that Axe does not like to lose and he lost last season to the Russian and the next episode Taylor was in Business with her own firm. Taylor is setting the Russian up for an investigation by the US attorney Connerly replacing Chuck and I believe the Russian has connections with the Attorney General on the oil deal Texas which is going to give Chuck his big revenge when the Russian is convicted and the Attorney General is out of office.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Billionaires,

No real life politics references please.  These violate the site's No Politics rule.

[mledawn]

On 3/25/2019 at 2:09 AM, Lemons said:

Except some people using the term haven’t met her yet, so that’s not it.  Like the new character, the super rich blonde woman.  

Taylor has been on this show for several seasons, they're likely famous as hell in this world now, so this doesn't faze me one bit. Representation matters, and having fictional people be respectful of pronouns likely helps normalise the use of preferred pronouns in real life. In the quote above, Taylor has been referred to as her, in spite of knowing their preferred pronoun - I consider that to be disrespectful.

I enjoy the quote from Ursula Le Guin regarding the use of singular "they", specifically citing Shakespeare and George Bernard Shaw using the singular "they", and how it was commonly used until the sixteenth or seventeenth century. Back then, "he" was considered a universal pronoun and referred to men or women, and that is not true in English today.

I'm with @GussieK: Billions has absolutely jumped the shark, which is a shame because the cast (Malin Akerman aside) is fantastic.

[kieyra]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:55 PM, edhopper said:

Okay, enough with the pop culture references. As if every 26 year old would know Dinero and Pacino's names from Heat, or the intricacies of Starship Troopers.

it's not all that clever.

Meanwhile, Taylor’s security system PIN is 2112. Because Rush. Because the writers’ pop culture references are all decades old, and Rush is still what they associate with nerddom.

Please update your references, writers.

Signed, an old Rush nerd who didn’t even think this reference was apt the first time you gave it to Taylor.