Supernatural Ending

[7kstar]

9 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I think if there is a strike they can film what they have written but Im not 100 %sure on that.

Movies that are scheduled to be shot could continue with production, but they would do so with no writers involved. That means the often required script changes would not be allowed to be implemented because there would be no writers to hire for such work, due to the strike. Studios and networks are bound by guild signatory agreements, which means that they would not be allowed to hire any non-union writers. While there is some legal gray area present, in the end, any hiring of any “scab” writer would not only have repercussions for that writer for future guild membership, but the studio or network could face later action by the guild as well.

So Hollywood basically shuts down.

In the months before impending strikes, studios and networks prepare by shoring up drafts needed for near production films and television episodes, and they also attempt to find and acquire potential future projects as well.

from:  https://screencraft.org/2017/04/28/how-strikes-impact-everyone-in-hollywood/

The big issue that people don't watch like they use to.  Many will just binge a show and a writer's strike will harm the new shows that are struggling.  If the scripts are finished they can shoot them but they can't rewrite them.  If Dabb wants his ending he will need to get it done before the strike.

[ahrtee]

5 hours ago, 7kstar said:

If the scripts are finished they can shoot them but they can't rewrite them.  If Dabb wants his ending he will need to get it done before the strike.

Which to me means that the boys had better read everything as soon as it's written and suggest any changes then.  I know Jensen has said that he never reads ahead and that they often suggest changes as they're shooting when things don't sound right for their characters, so I hope he changes that this time, or we'll wind up with exactly what Dabb writes with no input from the ones who know better.  

[FlickChick]

21 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I think if there is a strike they can film what they have written but Im not 100 %sure on that.

I remember that when they had a writers' strike in S3, absolutely no work went on during the strike - no writing, no filming, no crew production of any kind. They simply shut down, and didn't return to work until the strike was over. Then they began on a script that was completely written, and started to finish the last three episodes. That's why I'm concerned if the strike comes before Apr. 9th. And the writers know that they have better leverage if the strike affects winter/early spring production.

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I remember that when they had a writers' strike in S3, absolutely no work went on during the strike - no writing, no filming, no crew production of any kind. They simply shut down, and didn't return to work until the strike was over. Then they began on a script that was completely written, and started to finish the last three episodes. That's why I'm concerned if the strike comes before Apr. 9th. And the writers know that they have better leverage if the strike affects winter/early spring production.

Other show were in production during the strike, through. They just had more scripts ready and filmed them. Some didn"t even miss an episode back then.

[Airmid]

On 1/12/2020 at 1:30 PM, FlickChick said:

I remember that when they had a writers' strike in S3, absolutely no work went on during the strike - no writing, no filming, no crew production of any kind. They simply shut down, and didn't return to work until the strike was over. Then they began on a script that was completely written, and started to finish the last three episodes. That's why I'm concerned if the strike comes before Apr. 9th. And the writers know that they have better leverage if the strike affects winter/early spring production.

Sadly, even though messy, S3 turned our far stronger because Dean ended up going to hell and they had to scrap the original Sam story line.

I can't say the same will happen now. It's terrible timing both for new shows trying to get off the ground and long running shows finishing up esp. if scrips aren't polished. 

Of course, maybe it will work again and Dabb will be forced to change whatever BS ending he has because of how little time is left. I highly doubt it though, it will probably go forward to the bitter end with whatever dumb thing is planned. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/9/2020 at 9:02 AM, ILoveReading said:

I agree its past time for the show to end, but it gave me this weird pang of regret not seeing it there.  Its like it finally became real.  But I am excited to see what Jensen does next.

Jensen mentioned at a con that his focus would be on camera work.  Which makes me happy.  I think that was what this weekend was all about, he was networking and making connections. 

Peter Roth,, head of WB is a big fan of Jensen which will really help him get a new project. 

 

Goodness. Of course he will land on his feet and he will land big. That proves all of the talk about his short lists with Marvel projects and being offered the role of Hawkeye is true... naysayers can just stop talking. For his entire career he has gotten roles because someone saw him audition for something else and remembered him or they knew his work on another show. He is the definition of rock star.

 

[Myrelle]

Continuing from the writers thread..

And I could definitely see Jensen disliking that ending, especially if Dean is made to also, and yet again, be forced into "letting Sam go" to his solely, all-heroic death-and with JP loving it for that reason.

And in this way, Dabb could gleefully screw other numerous segments of fandom to hell on his way out.

And so what if the bronlies and some of  the J2 fans hate it.

He's only thinking of pleasing about 30%(tops) of the fandom with his ending, and he declared that right from the jump-and "just kiddings" notwithstanding. 

That's why my only hope for a decent ending for Dean on this show would require his death or dying.

It's the only way he'll stand any chance at all of escaping Dabb's terrible writing of the character. IMO, of course. 

[ahrtee]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

That's why my only hope for a decent ending for Dean on this show would require his death or dying.

It's the only way he'll stand any chance at all of escaping Dabb's terrible writing of the character. IMO, of course. 

Be careful what you wish for.  I can see too many ways that could go bad, as in:  Dean dies some kind of minor/ignominious death, which causes Sam to find his own strength to overcome whatever it was that killed his brother and come out triumphant.  Probably with Eileen to give him the "you can do it" and "Dean would want it this way" first and gaze adoringly at him after.  

 

[Myrelle]

Even a minor or ignominious death would still beat him becoming simply and only a prop or capeholder for any other character to me.

But who am I  kidding?

I'm pretty sure all he'll be doing is crying and hand-wringing from here on out.

Ugh.

I wish it was over already. 

[Aeryn13]

I cried a bit today watching the Arrowverse crossover conclusion - and it wasn`t even well written (nor a final episode). But I still got verklempt at it. If Supernatural could manage 5 % of that with its Series Finale, I would consider it a win.

[S Cook Productions]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Be careful what you wish for.  I can see too many ways that could go bad, as in:  Dean dies some kind of minor/ignominious death, which causes Sam to find his own strength to overcome whatever it was that killed his brother and come out triumphant.  Probably with Eileen to give him the "you can do it" and "Dean would want it this way" first and gaze adoringly at him after.  

 

Lol. I can see Sam and Eileen’s endgame getting married and having a child in the finale. 
I’m still not sure what to expect for Dean and Cas (and I guess Jack since Dabb said he was integral to the end). 

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Be careful what you wish for.  I can see too many ways that could go bad, as in:  Dean dies some kind of minor/ignominious death, which causes Sam to find his own strength to overcome whatever it was that killed his brother and come out triumphant.  Probably with Eileen to give him the "you can do it" and "Dean would want it this way" first and gaze adoringly at him after.  

 

This is pretty much what I'm afraid of if the show ends with Dean's death. 

[Harleycat]

1 hour ago, S Cook Productions said:

Lol. I can see Sam and Eileen’s endgame getting married and having a child in the finale. 
I’m still not sure what to expect for Dean and Cas (and I guess Jack since Dabb said he was integral to the end). 

The show was inspired somewhat by On The Road, with Sam being Sol and Dean being Dean. The characters in the book had a backburner mission of finding Dean's father, which semi-prompted going on the road together. It ended with Sol choosing a more traditional life while Dean continued life on the road. I could see the series ending in a similar way as a nod to the source material. The series was always a celebration of Dean's chosen lifestyle (fast car, fast food, fast women, classic rock, going out in a blaze of glory) which Sam as the observer never fully embraces. 

So I hope Dean drives off into the sunset with Cas looking out for him and Sam finally finds his comfortable life, as he really is insufferable now.

[ahrtee]

I have the sinking feeling that Dabb's "scorched earth" approach to the end will be literal, destroying everything that went before.  

I can see it this way:  epic battles of the Winchesters vs. Chuck.  All their friends and allies are killed one by one.  They go all in for one last winner-take-all battle (Sam and/or Jack in front, of course, and Dean cheering them on).  Just as they have Chuck on the ropes and think they've won, he gives them a smug smile, says something like "goodbye" (or "I win") and snaps his fingers.

...cut to black.   All of Kripke's world is now gone.  The show can either end there, or:

After an appropriate amount of blackness, Jack's voice comes out of the darkness:  "Let there be light."  And Jack and a new world appears.

Alternatively, he can just snap the Winchesters out of existence and replace them with some other much younger and equally beautiful people to take their place.  So the show can continue not as a spinoff but a do-over.  

ETA: We really, really do need a "gag" emoji.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by ahrtee

[FlickChick]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

ETA: We really, really do need a "gag" emoji.

Yes, x1000 in this gag-producing final season. So very, very sad...

[Bobcatkitten]

I just thought of the worst ending ever. Why do I do this. They win. They beat God and Heaven and Hell are under control. Just back to garden variety monsters.

 

Dean picks up beer to celebrate and gets gunned down by a druggie in a botched robbery. Sam becomes a hermit in the bunker. 

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I just thought of the worst ending ever. Why do I do this. They win. They beat God and Heaven and Hell are under control. Just back to garden variety monsters.

 

Dean picks up beer to celebrate and gets gunned down by a druggie in a botched robbery. Sam becomes a hermit in the bunker. 

Eileen moves in with Sam in the bunker.  If she's already dead, her ghost stays with him for comfort/company. 

Anytime Sam doesn't have Dean around he settles down with a woman to take care of him.  

[trudysmom]

I would prefer that ending to this crapfest we're being fed now.  This is what I feared most, Dabb crapping all over it and ruining it before it's over.  Thanks, asshole.

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:06 PM, FlickChick said:

Yes, x1000 in this gag-producing final season. So very, very sad...

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

It's on your keyboard!

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:49 PM, Harleycat said:

The show was inspired somewhat by On The Road, with Sam being Sol and Dean being Dean. The characters in the book had a backburner mission of finding Dean's father, which semi-prompted going on the road together. It ended with Sol choosing a more traditional life while Dean continued life on the road. I could see the series ending in a similar way as a nod to the source material. The series was always a celebration of Dean's chosen lifestyle (fast car, fast food, fast women, classic rock, going out in a blaze of glory) which Sam as the observer never fully embraces. 

So I hope Dean drives off into the sunset with Cas looking out for him and Sam finally finds his comfortable life, as he really is insufferable now.

I thought it was inspired by "The Night Stalker" and it was originally going to have one character,,a journalist investigating supernatural goings on but then someone actually rebooted "The Night Stalker" with Stuart Townsend so Kripke reworked his borrowed concept.

[Castiels Cat]

On 1/15/2020 at 1:57 PM, Myrelle said:

Continuing from the writers thread..

And I could definitely see Jensen disliking that ending, especially if Dean is made to also, and yet again, be forced into "letting Sam go" to his solely, all-heroic death-and with JP loving it for that reason.

And in this way, Dabb could gleefully screw other numerous segments of fandom to hell on his way out.

And so what if the bronlies and some of  the J2 fans hate it.

He's only thinking of pleasing about 30%(tops) of the fandom with his ending, and he declared that right from the jump-and "just kiddings" notwithstanding. 

That's why my only hope for a decent ending for Dean on this show would require his death or dying.

It's the only way he'll stand any chance at all of escaping Dabb's terrible writing of the character. IMO, of course. 

Yes. He's already comparing it to GoT however there is a major difference between the shows. The GoT cast was loyal to the writers and stood up for them. That's obviously not going to happen. There will be professionally critical discussion of what was disliked about the final and serious issues. 

 

[Harleycat]

16 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I thought it was inspired by "The Night Stalker" and it was originally going to have one character,,a journalist investigating supernatural goings on but then someone actually rebooted "The Night Stalker" with Stuart Townsend so Kripke reworked his borrowed concept.

Interesting, I've never read that before but years ago read that it was inspired by On The Road. So you're probably right.

[Castiels Cat]

15 minutes ago, Harleycat said:

Interesting, I've never read that before but years ago read that it was inspired by On The Road. So you're probably right.

I actually like yours better.

[7kstar]

When I first started watching in season 4, the pitch was how about two journalism guys on the road searching out supernatural stories,  The network didn't like it.

Here is one article.

http://www.tv.com/news/tv-com-q-10682/

Another states it was a book he first read when he was 10.  So his love for urban myths was the start.  He needed a way to bring them to the viewers and came up with brothers.  One of the first drafts had John dead.  He then changed it to the father missing which was the better story.

https://hiddenremote.com/2018/03/28/eric-kripke-shares-supernatural-inspiration-hes-working-now/

Anyway you look at it now, not sure how the show is going on it's last season is what he had in mind.

Edited January 19, 2020 by 7kstar

[ukgirl71]

Having just quit one FB page because all it seemed to be was non-stop pictures and adoring of one of the main cast, and precious little discussion, it got me thinking.  After the show ends, I would love someone to set up a comprehensive social media site or webpage to allow us to follow the comings and goings of J2M, and the more regular guests (Jim, Kim, Brianna, for example), their future endeavours rather than a reminiscent analysis of SPN episodes (though that should be allowed, in moderation, too).  I love this page for its discussion, and the sharing of differing opinions - I want substance over incessant, often mindless, fan girl/boy ing.

[catrox14]

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've come to the point that I want Dean to die. I want him mourned and memorialized. And really most sincerely dead without any way for him to be resurrected. I don't want anyone else to ever play or be cast as Dean again. His story is over and I want no loopholes that allow a young Dean or and old Den or any other multiverse Dean.

That's all I want for Dean and Jensen.

 

 

 

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've come to the point that I want Dean to die. I want him mourned and memorialized. And really most sincerely dead without any way for him to be resurrected. I don't want anyone else to ever play or be cast as Dean again. His story is over and I want no loopholes that allow a young Dean or and old Den or any other multiverse Dean.

That's all I want for Dean and Jensen.

 

 

 

We are having the same thoughts.

And honestly, I think I might even feel it coming on.

I just don't see how the character could ever experience any kind of genuine peace in the reality that he's in.

I honestly think that his memory would have to somehow be wiped in order for that to even be a possibility for him.

[Aeryn13]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've come to the point that I want Dean to die. I want him mourned and memorialized. And really most sincerely dead without any way for him to be resurrected. I don't want anyone else to ever play or be cast as Dean again. His story is over and I want no loopholes that allow a young Dean or and old Den or any other multiverse Dean.

That's all I want for Dean and Jensen.

If they could do half as much for Dean as they did/do for a character with the initials O.Q., I`d be very happy.  

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

If they could do half as much for Dean as they did/do for a character with the initials O.Q., I`d be very happy.  

This is exactly what got me thinking.  I would be thrilled for even a fraction of that. 

[FlickChick]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I've been thinking about this for awhile and I've come to the point that I want Dean to die. I want him mourned and memorialized. And really most sincerely dead without any way for him to be resurrected. I don't want anyone else to ever play or be cast as Dean again. His story is over and I want no loopholes that allow a young Dean or and old Den or any other multiverse Dean.

That's all I want for Dean and Jensen.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, if Jensen knows the ending and doesn't like it, I don't think this is in the cards. I believe it was known that both Jared and Jensen preferred a "Butch & Sundance" ending as they mentioned onscreen several times. Of course, that's exactly why we won't have it from Dabb.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, FlickChick said:

Unfortunately, if Jensen knows the ending and doesn't like it, I don't think this is in the cards. I believe it was known that both Jared and Jensen preferred a "Butch & Sundance" ending as they mentioned onscreen several times. Of course, that's exactly why we won't have it from Dabb.

I think he would be okay with Dean dying if it's done the right way. 

[FlickChick]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think he would be okay with Dean dying if it's done the right way. 

I totally agree that Jensen would be on board with a fitting death/memorial as you described above. So would I. But since Jensen didn't like the ending, I think Dean will be alive at the end after supporting all the other characters in whatever fates befall them, and perhaps driving off into the sunset - alone. Just like he never wanted to be...

[PAForrest]

10 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I totally agree that Jensen would be on board with a fitting death/memorial as you described above. So would I. But since Jensen didn't like the ending, I think Dean will be alive at the end after supporting all the other characters in whatever fates befall them, and perhaps driving off into the sunset - alone. Just like he never wanted to be...

I honestly don't have a feeling one way or the other as to Dean dying or living. All I know is Jensen didn't like the ending, and I too feel like he'd be okay with Dean dying if it was a truly heroic death.

If it was a stupid meaningless death, no, he'd hate that - and frankly so would the wider viewing audience. I know he kept his mouth shut and went along with the ending since everyone else seemed okay with it, but if Dabb came right out and pitched Dean dying a meaningless death, I'd think Jensen would have said something.

There are other scenarios Jensen wouldn't like, but I just don't know what to think right now other than the fact that Jensen wasn't happy.

Edited January 19, 2020 by PAForrest
spelling!

[Myrelle]

21 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

I totally agree that Jensen would be on board with a fitting death/memorial as you described above. So would I. But since Jensen didn't like the ending, I think Dean will be alive at the end after supporting all the other characters in whatever fates befall them, and perhaps driving off into the sunset - alone. Just like he never wanted to be...

Spoiler

Yeah, I could never buy this either-especially if they'd try to tell us that Dean would be "at peace" with that-as it was said by someone(JP?)they would be, I think?

I could see Sam finding a semblance of "peace" in that manner-but Dean? No. Never.

So yes, I think that sort of ending would not sit well with Jensen-or tbh, any ending that saw one brother alive and one dead or even just "gone".

IOW, I think it would bother Jensen if the brothers were separated in any way in the finale. JP, OTH, not so much-as long as Sam gets a BDH moment, that is.

Spoiler

Jensen said he spoke to Kripke about it and Kripke helped him by telling him that he (Jensen) had to understand that it was likely always going to end this way. After which Jensen said that he realized he was just too close to the character(s?) and that's likely the big reason that he was having trouble with it.

What if it's as simple as he doesn't want either brother to die because he knows how much it would upset the fandom?

[Casseiopeia]

I honestly don't think they are going to die. I think they are going to part ways because Jack has set up Utopia in his new role as God (afterall he did show Castiel and Kelly the "perfect" world he was going to create while in utero).  All monsters, all magic, demons and angels no longer exist in Sam and Dean's world. As is Dabb's wont he doesn't mind the Winchesters standing around watching everyone else do "stuff". Sam will go find Eileen and Dean will open a bar.

And since Dabb is a fan of GOT's it does sound like a lesser character will win the "throne". And that would be Jack.

I can see Jensen having issues with that.

[Castiels Cat]

55 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

  Hide contents

Yeah, I could never buy this either-especially if they'd try to tell us that Dean would be "at peace" with that-as it was said by someone(JP?)they would be, I think?

I could see Sam finding a semblance of "peace" in that manner-but Dean? No. Never.

So yes, I think that sort of ending would not sit well with Jensen-or tbh, any ending that saw one brother alive and one dead or even just "gone".

IOW, I think it would bother Jensen if the brothers were separated in any way in the finale. JP, OTH, not so much-as long as Sam gets a BDH moment, that is.

  Hide contents

Jensen said he spoke to Kripke about it and Kripke helped him by telling him that he (Jensen) had to understand that it was likely always going to end this way. After which Jensen said that he realized he was just too close to the character(s?) and that's likely the big reason that he was having trouble with it.

What if it's as simple as he doesn't want either brother to die because he knows how much it would upset the fandom?

Hmmm. Sam is weak and is going to be manipulated; we saw that this week. Dean is defiant and is going to fight Chuck and be the wild card.  Cas will just protect Jack. Jack is the one... 

I half believe it will end with Dean coming to and the world is burning and AU Michael has been in control since the gorgon knocked him out in Ouroboros only to leave Dean to see what has been wrought.

IDK. Dean's propensity to play against the script seems like the superpower they need. Jack seems too easy. I hope he is powered down in his resurrected state because that made no sense.

[Bergamot]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I honestly don't think they are going to die. I think they are going to part ways because Jack has set up Utopia in his new role as God (afterall he did show Castiel and Kelly the "perfect" world he was going to create while in utero).  All monsters, all magic, demons and angels no longer exist in Sam and Dean's world. As is Dabb's wont he doesn't mind the Winchesters standing around watching everyone else do "stuff". Sam will go find Eileen and Dean will open a bar.

As far as the ending is concerned, there are a couple quotes that I have been turning over in my mind. (I don't know if discussion of this type is considered a spoiler, but I will spoiler tag it just in case there are those who don't even want any hints.)
 

Spoiler

 

First, there is something Jared said. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about how he didn't want an ending which showed that Dean and Sam were going to continue, after the show ended, doing their thing as hunters. This is what I would call the "We have work to do" ending. Jared said that if he knew that Dean and Sam were going to continue having adventures, he would want to be there for them. And since Jared said that he liked the ending, I assume that we won't get the "We have work to do" type of ending.

To me, this also makes it less likely that the ending will show one or both brothers retiring from hunting. Because even if they retire, they can always go back to work if they want to or they are needed. Although I guess if the world is turned into a Utopia where there is no need for hunters because there are no monsters or demons, then maybe you could see it as an ending that definitively ends their lives as hunters.

However, in the recent interview with Dabb in "Variety", he is quoted as saying, “It’s a true ending, and in a true ending, people can’t keep coming back over and over again. They’re going to be facing life or death — this time it’s for real,” He also says that the story "takes our guys on a journey we haven’t seen before" and that he "feels no pressure to end this in an open-ended way". So it doesn't sound as if the ending will be something that could be reversed.

That's still pretty vague, but it does sound as if their days of "saving people, hunting things" will be over, and it doesn't sound as if they are going to just retire. Maybe they die, or maybe they are transformed somehow so that they must leave behind their human existence, or maybe they just go to sleep forever in the Empty.

It's too bad, because I think maybe I would have liked seeing them settle down and find peace in their retirement years. I doubt that's what we are going to see though.

 

 

[Castiels Cat]

26 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

As far as the ending is concerned, there are a couple quotes that I have been turning over in my mind. (I don't know if discussion of this type is considered a spoiler, but I will spoiler tag it just in case there are those who don't even want any hints.)
 

  Hide contents

 

First, there is something Jared said. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about how he didn't want an ending which showed that Dean and Sam were going to continue, after the show ended, doing their thing as hunters. This is what I would call the "We have work to do" ending. Jared said that if he knew that Dean and Sam were going to continue having adventures, he would want to be there for them. And since Jared said that he liked the ending, I assume that we won't get the "We have work to do" type of ending.

To me, this also makes it less likely that the ending will show one or both brothers retiring from hunting. Because even if they retire, they can always go back to work if they want to or they are needed. Although I guess if the world is turned into a Utopia where there is no need for hunters because there are no monsters or demons, then maybe you could see it as an ending that definitively ends their lives as hunters.

However, in the recent interview with Dabb in "Variety", he is quoted as saying, “It’s a true ending, and in a true ending, people can’t keep coming back over and over again. They’re going to be facing life or death — this time it’s for real,” He also says that the story "takes our guys on a journey we haven’t seen before" and that he "feels no pressure to end this in an open-ended way". So it doesn't sound as if the ending will be something that could be reversed.

That's still pretty vague, but it does sound as if their days of "saving people, hunting things" will be over, and it doesn't sound as if they are going to just retire. Maybe they die, or maybe they are transformed somehow so that they must leave behind their human existence, or maybe they just go to sleep forever in the Empty.

It's too bad, because I think maybe I would have liked seeing them settle down and find peace in their retirement years. I doubt that's what we are going to see though.

 

 

He also said that Purgatory was a formative place for Dean and Dean went back there and slept and heard that Benny died in a single sentence. There was no thought on their part. They didn't even rememberthat the Leviathan hated Eve???? I say take everything with a grain of salt.

Jensen has mentioned the possibility of revisiting supernatural in another format, presumably film or cable or streaming. He sees a potential future. Dabb is the past.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[DeeDee79]

26 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

As far as the ending is concerned, there are a couple quotes that I have been turning over in my mind. (I don't know if discussion of this type is considered a spoiler, but I will spoiler tag it just in case there are those who don't even want any hints.)
 

  Hide contents

 

First, there is something Jared said. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about how he didn't want an ending which showed that Dean and Sam were going to continue, after the show ended, doing their thing as hunters. This is what I would call the "We have work to do" ending. Jared said that if he knew that Dean and Sam were going to continue having adventures, he would want to be there for them. And since Jared said that he liked the ending, I assume that we won't get the "We have work to do" type of ending.

To me, this also makes it less likely that the ending will show one or both brothers retiring from hunting. Because even if they retire, they can always go back to work if they want to or they are needed. Although I guess if the world is turned into a Utopia where there is no need for hunters because there are no monsters or demons, then maybe you could see it as an ending that definitively ends their lives as hunters.

However, in the recent interview with Dabb in "Variety", he is quoted as saying, “It’s a true ending, and in a true ending, people can’t keep coming back over and over again. They’re going to be facing life or death — this time it’s for real,” He also says that the story "takes our guys on a journey we haven’t seen before" and that he "feels no pressure to end this in an open-ended way". So it doesn't sound as if the ending will be something that could be reversed.

That's still pretty vague, but it does sound as if their days of "saving people, hunting things" will be over, and it doesn't sound as if they are going to just retire. Maybe they die, or maybe they are transformed somehow so that they must leave behind their human existence, or maybe they just go to sleep forever in the Empty.

It's too bad, because I think maybe I would have liked seeing them settle down and find peace in their retirement years. I doubt that's what we are going to see though.

 

 

Spoiler

This is upsetting considering that Jared likes the ending and Jensen was unhappy with it. It sounds Jared's ideas of how to end their story was taken into account while Jensen's protests were ignored. Unfortunately that's probably what happened.

 

[Castiels Cat]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

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This is upsetting considering that Jared likes the ending and Jensen was unhappy with it. It sounds Jared's ideas of how to end their story was taken into account while Jensen's protests were ignored. Unfortunately that's probably what happened.

 

Mmm. Well. It does seem like JA is being penalized by the writers. 

It's not a good look for them or the show.

[juppschmitz]

4 hours ago, Bergamot said:

maybe they just go to sleep forever in the Empty.

No-one sleeps forever in The Empty...

[catrox14]

I think it's interesting that Jensen called Eric Kripke to discuss his reaction to the ending. Eric's answer was that Jensen was too close the material. I want to know how Jensen could talk to Kripke about it and does this indicate that Kripke will have a hand in the series end? I always thought that was curious.

I think it's interesting that Jensen called Eric Kripke to discuss his reaction to the ending. Eric's answer was that Jensen was too close the material. I want to know how Jensen could talk to Kripke about it and does this indicate that Kripke will have a hand in the series end? I always thought that was curious.

[PAForrest]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's interesting that Jensen called Eric Kripke to discuss his reaction to the ending. Eric's answer was that Jensen was too close the material. I want to know how Jensen could talk to Kripke about it and does this indicate that Kripke will have a hand in the series end? I always thought that was curious.

I don't think Kripke is going to have anything to do with the finale, sadly. He's moved on. I believe Singer and Dabb ran the idea by him, he said fine, whatever, but Kripke's focus is on what he's doing right now. And that is disappointing because his name is still attached to the show and he still receives money from it. I understand he doesn't want to look backward, but this show will be his legacy whether he likes it or not, and you'd think he'd want it to go out strong. And it won't with Dabb and Berens driving the entire narrative. If they were good at their jobs, we'd be getting seasons 16/17.

But I do think it says everything that when Danneel told Jensen to talk to someone about his concerns for the finale, he called Kripke, and not the current usual suspects.

[Casseiopeia]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's interesting that Jensen called Eric Kripke to discuss his reaction to the ending. Eric's answer was that Jensen was too close the material. I want to know how Jensen could talk to Kripke about it and does this indicate that Kripke will have a hand in the series end? I always thought that was curious.

Is Kripke still listed as Creative Consultant? If so they may have run the ending by him for input. I think Singer at least would have talked to EK about it. Not that he would/could influence how Dabb wants it to end but supposedly he was okay with it.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

I don't think Kripke is going to have anything to do with the finale, sadly.

I believe he actually said as much. I'll find the tweet at some point.

I really can't figure out what ending would have prompted Jensen's immediate, visceral objection to it. Personally, I believe that 99% of the time, your first reaction is the lasting one. There aren't many times in my life that my mind has truly been changed, even if I've acquiesced for one reason or another. That makes me sad.

My immediate reaction to Jensen's reaction was that Dean has to let Sam go, for reals. Swan Song 2.0. Because I don't think even after all is said and done, he believe Dean would ever really be okay with that a second time. Sacrificing himself for the world is okay, sacrificing his little brother is not. That's Dean. (I don't agree, but I think Jensen does.) But I don't see Dabb going there.

I think Dabb is going all-in with his original character saving the world and ascending to the throne (becoming God), with the Winchesters as his support staff/cheerleaders. I think Castiel will be sacrificed, and possibly Sam (becoming one with The Darkness) and Dean being the one left behind to carry on. I think this is possible because a) It gives his OC the win, b) it gives Sam (his favorite Winchester) a hero's ending, and b) it gives Dean the ending that he would hate more than anything, being alone in the world.

 

[Myrelle]

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I believe he actually said as much. I'll find the tweet at some point.

I really can't figure out what ending would have prompted Jensen's immediate, visceral objection to it. Personally, I believe that 99% of the time, your first reaction is the lasting one. There aren't many times in my life that my mind has truly been changed, even if I've acquiesced for one reason or another. That makes me sad.

My immediate reaction to Jensen's reaction was that Dean has to let Sam go, for reals. Swan Song 2.0. Because I don't think even after all is said and done, he believe Dean would ever really be okay with that a second time. Sacrificing himself for the world is okay, sacrificing his little brother is not. That's Dean. (I don't agree, but I think Jensen does.) But I don't see Dabb going there.

I think Dabb is going all-in with his original character saving the world and ascending to the throne (becoming God), with the Winchesters as his support staff/cheerleaders. I think Castiel will be sacrificed, and possibly Sam (becoming one with The Darkness) and Dean being the one left behind to carry on. I think this is possible because a) It gives his OC the win, b) it gives Sam (his favorite Winchester) a hero's ending, and b) it gives Dean the ending that he would hate more than anything, being alone in the world.

 

I'll never accept that Dean would be "at peace" then and with that scenario.

And I don't think Jensen would either. 

And we still have Eileen waiting in the wings for Sam(so far, anyway), but if they kill her off, then that would seal it and we'll know that Sam, at least, will get a big heroic death-most likely THE big heroic death and yes, likely leave us with Dean alone and Sam having convinced him to find peace w/o him-not that that would convince  me(or Jensen either, IMO)-so yes, Swan Song all over again-and this even though Dabb claimed in his most recent interview that they weren't going to just re-do that ending(something along those lines).

I DO think that it will end with the NougatBaby's vision of paradise with yes, NougatBaby in the New God role.

But he will need someone to guide and advise him-so either Cas or Dean or both will live-probably Dean, if it's only one of them, with the NougatBaby God as his new charge(although, at this point, Dabb gifting the Destiehellers with their hearts desire of the My Two Dads ending can't be ruled out either).

And all of these scenarios leave nothing  for Dean/Jensen except the crying and handwringing support role, of course.

And I doubt Jensen would like that either. 

Blech.

The prospects are so bleak.

 

 

[Aeryn13]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'll never accept that Dean would be "at peace" then and with that scenario.

And I don't think Jensen would either. 

And we still have Eileen waiting in the wings for Sam(so far, anyway), but if they kill her off, then that would seal it and we'll know that Sam, at least, will get a big heroic death-most likely THE big heroic death and yes, likely leave us with Dean alone and Sam having convinced him to find peace w/o him-not that that would convince  me(or Jensen either, IMO)-so yes, Swan Song all over again-and this even though Dabb claimed in his most recent interview that they weren't going to just re-do that ending(something along those lines).

I DO think that it will end with the NougatBaby's vision of paradise with yes, NougatBaby in the New God role.

But he will need someone to guide and advise him-so either Cas or Dean or both will live-probably Dean, if it's only one of them, with the NougatBaby God as his new charge(although, at this point, Dabb gifting the Destiehellers with their hearts desire of the My Two Dads ending can't be ruled out either).

And all of these scenarios leave nothing  for Dean/Jensen except the crying and handwringing support role, of course.

And I doubt Jensen would like that either. 

Blech.

The prospects are so bleak.

 

 

I think if they haven`t killed off Eileen in this latest episode, they won`t do it. That final kiss was the first time this Season, I saw her as endgame potential waiting-in-the-wings. 

They haven`t really set up anything as an "afterlife" for Dean. Other than the nebulous bar thing which can go either direction as so far it has been a waiting room in one episode and a device to show Dean what he couldn`t/wouldn`t do this Season. Right now death would be the likeliest option for him.

With Dabb`s crack about it no longer fitting with Kripke`s original ending, I think 5.22 is also out of the running. 

And with everything Jared put out of the running in terms of "everything I never wanted is a, b, c and I really like this", options are narrowing.

Now Jackie-poo as the new God seems pretty set in stone, with probably his "paradise" world. I could honestly see Jensen thinking that was gonna be a meh ending for the show, to have some lollipop "all is fixed now" world where hunting is no longer a thing. Dabb might see this as some great legacy but IMO it is an anti-legacy for a show centered on hunting. 

I think Dabb would be patting himself on the back by going "see, the Winchesters were so great and so important, they installed their people in key positions in the grand scheme of things: Rowena rules hell, Jack rules heaven, Billie is the new Death yada yada". And that makes them and their story meaningful. Instead of actually paying off THEM in the Finale. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Aeryn13

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now Jackie-poo as the new God seems pretty set in stone, with probably his "paradise" world. I could honestly see Jensen thinking that was gonna be a meh ending for the show, to have some lollipop "all is fixed now" world where hunting is no longer a thing. Dabb might see this as some great legacy but IMO it is an anti-legacy for a show centered on hunting. 

Well, I can see Dabb saying that's the final-final no way back way of dealing with the boys that he mentioned:  nothing else to hunt.  He made them irrelevant to the show, now they're irrelevant to the world.  *sigh*

 

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Well, I can see Dabb saying that's the final-final no way back way of dealing with the boys that he mentioned:  nothing else to hunt.  He made them irrelevant to the show, now they're irrelevant to the world.  *sigh*

 

They can always show Dean waking up from his head injury in Ouroboros and it was all a concussion/come dream. Jack died. And things are bad. They have work to do.

[Castiels Cat]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think if they haven`t killed off Eileen in this latest episode, they won`t do it. That final kiss was the first time this Season, I saw her as endgame potential waiting-in-the-wings. 

They haven`t really set up anything as an "afterlife" for Dean. Other than the nebulous bar thing which can go either direction as so far it has been a waiting room in one episode and a device to show Dean what he couldn`t/wouldn`t do this Season. Right now death would be the likeliest option for him.

With Dabb`s crack about it no longer fitting with Kripke`s original ending, I think 5.22 is also out of the running. 

And with everything Jared put out of the running in terms of "everything I never wanted is a, b, c and I really like this", options are narrowing.

Now Jackie-poo as the new God seems pretty set in stone, with probably his "paradise" world. I could honestly see Jensen thinking that was gonna be a meh ending for the show, to have some lollipop "all is fixed now" world where hunting is no longer a thing. Dabb might see this as some great legacy but IMO it is an anti-legacy for a show centered on hunting. 

I think Dabb would be patting himself on the back by going "see, the Winchesters were so great and so important, they installed their people in key positions in the grand scheme of things: Rowena rules hell, Jack rules heaven, Billie is the new Death yada yada". And that makes them and their story meaningful. Instead of actually paying off THEM in the Finale. 

As of episode 9 they set up the brother-Chuck  conflict between Dean and Chuck. Sam folded. The have set Dean up as the wild card and Jack as his outside straight. Amara is likely to be Team Dean too. If there is a sacrifice to be made and Eileen is still alive there is no way Dean will let Sam make it. 

That said, Chuck now knows Sam is the weakest link and he certainly knows that Sam is Dean's Achilles heel. Chuck will go for Sam to hurt Dean.