The Case Against Adnan Syed

[biakbiak 56.8k]

4 part documentary about the Adnan Syed.

First ep premieres tonight March 10th

Family and friends of Adnan Syed, serving a life sentence for the murder of 18-year-old Hae Min Lee, recall the couple's high-school romance, their emotional breakup, and the events that led to Syed's arrest; Syed's family prepares for his appeal.

[SHD 3.8k]

Just my opinion, but I really dislike the animation they’re using to fill in the gaps for things they don’t have photos/film of. Too sappy/sentimental for a documentary. Same with the ethereal music soundtrack at times. The parts that are straightforward documentary style are good, though.

[biakbiak 56.8k]

30 minutes ago, SHD said:

but I really dislike the animation they’re using to fill in the gaps for things they don’t

It’s really becoming an overused device in documentaries. 

[TexasGal 17.7k]

I hope this delves more into the Jay borrowed his car scenario.  I never understood from listening to Serial the story that Jay and Adnan weren’t that close, but Jay borrowed his car the day that Hae Min went missing.  Why would you let someone you aren’t good friends with borrow your car? I don’t know how resolving that ends up looking (better or worse for Adnan) but it just didn’t make sense. 

[ghoulina 121.6k]

I don't know if it's because I was so tired last night, or what, but I found myself a bit bored. I understand the point of setting up the history or Adnan's and Hae's relationship; but I kind of felt like there was WAY too much of that. I felt a bit like I was watching a young adult Netflix original or something. This is only 4 parts, and I felt like too much of part 1 was devoted to their relationship. I don't know....it just seemed like overkill. 

Also, I felt uncomfortable hearing directly from a dead girl's diary. I guess her parents gave it to them? It just felt like an invasion of privacy. I understand why detectives in the case would have it. But I think you can give an overview of her thoughts and feelings without reading straight from it. 

I was interested in hearing more about Don. I have the worst memory and it's been a few years; was he heavily looked into in Serial?

Edited March 11 by ghoulina

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

Why would you let someone you aren’t good friends with borrow your car? 

I think Jay was the weed connect, but he didn't have his own car so my assumption was he used Adnan's car to dole out deliveries and Adnan got weed for gratis. But yeah I think they were friends, and Jay was dating Adnan's ex Stephanie. I don't know if that makes more sense or less for them to hang/be friends.

Edited March 12 by blixie

[Kostgard 1.6k]

3 hours ago, blixie said:

I think Jay was the weed connect, but he didn't have his own car so my assumption was he used Adnan's car to dole out deliveries and Adnan got weed for gratis. But yeah I think they were friends, and Jay was dating Adnan's ex Stephanie. I don't know if that makes more sense or less for them to hang/be friends.

Rabia confirmed in her book this was basically what was happening. Jay used Adnan’s car to conduct business, and Adnan got a cut (either weed or cash). That’s why they both told the police they barely knew each other - they didn’t want to get in trouble for the little weed operation.

Edited March 12 by Kostgard

[lucindabelle 4.3k]

As I recall Don was barely investigated. I’m not saying he did it but it’s squirrelly that his mom is his alibi, that he was dating a high school girl, that all these years later he claims never to have gotten over her.

[biakbiak 56.8k]

12 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Also, I felt uncomfortable hearing directly from a dead girl's diary. I guess her parents gave it to them? It just felt like an invasion of privacy. I understand why detectives in the case would have it. But I think you can give an overview of her thoughts and feelings without reading straight from it. 

I actually liked it because it did what Serial never did and mad Hae more than a minor character in the story of her murder. 

[Giant Misfit 25.5k]

Since this is a topic-only series (as opposed to a full forum), if you want to discuss something that was in a book related to this case or to something that was mentioned on Serial (but not yet on this show) please put it behind spoiler tags until the information is revealed on the show. After the series ends, you don't have to use the spoiler tags anymore. Please PM me if you have any questions. Thanks! 

[TattleTeeny 18.4k]

17 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I don't know if it's because I was so tired last night, or what, but I found myself a bit bored. I understand the point of setting up the history or Adnan's and Hae's relationship; but I kind of felt like there was WAY too much of that. I felt a bit like I was watching a young adult Netflix original or something. This is only 4 parts, and I felt like too much of part 1 was devoted to their relationship. I don't know....it just seemed like overkill. 

Also, I felt uncomfortable hearing directly from a dead girl's diary. I guess her parents gave it to them? It just felt like an invasion of privacy. I understand why detectives in the case would have it. But I think you can give an overview of her thoughts and feelings without reading straight from it. 

I was interested in hearing more about Don. I have the worst memory and it's been a few years; was he heavily looked into in Serial?

Don wasn't a huge part of Serial from what I recall, but he was in there. If you want lots of Don details, I highly recommend season one of the podcast Truth & Justice With Bob Ruff. Bob is so thorough! 

Edited March 12 by TattleTeeny

[ghoulina 121.6k]

7 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

As I recall Don was barely investigated. I’m not saying he did it but it’s squirrelly that his mom is his alibi, that he was dating a high school girl, that all these years later he claims never to have gotten over her.

I definitely get very skeptical when alibis are family members. I know that's not always fair, but I can't help it. I need more than that. 

[questionfear 3.5k]

On 3/12/2019 at 10:50 AM, ghoulina said:

I definitely get very skeptical when alibis are family members. I know that's not always fair, but I can't help it. I need more than that. 

Spoiler

Don's alibi was cleared by the private investigators hired by the documentary crew: https://www.wsj.com/articles/adnan-syed-hbo-documentary-serial-murder-case-11552313829

If they paywall the link, the TL;DR is: Don's alibi is backed up by the electronic timecard system as well as interviews with people who worked that shift that day, as well as interviews with Lenscrafters corporate.

So while Don comes across a bit weird and kind of a creeper hitting on HS girls, he really was working that day. 

Edited March 18 by Giant Misfit · Reason: edited to add spoiler tag

[Shenanigan 233]

Quote

I don't know if it's because I was so tired last night, or what, but I found myself a bit bored. I understand the point of setting up the history or Adnan's and Hae's relationship; but I kind of felt like there was WAY too much of that. I felt a bit like I was watching a young adult Netflix original or something. This is only 4 parts, and I felt like too much of part 1 was devoted to their relationship. I don't know....it just seemed like overkill. 

I was right there with you. I was riveted to Serial, but I almost fell asleep twice trying to watch this. And the animation is just...no. I want it to stop, please.

[poeticlicensed 21.5k]

I hated the animation and I didn't like that poor Hae was having her diary read. As far as the case, I was struck by how little engagement I had with what they were talking about. With Serial, I was on the edge of my seat, with each episode vacillating on his guilt. What did make me sit up and say wah? was Adnan claiming to be so high he had no recollection of his activities for several hours. Listen, if you find out that your ex has been murdered and the police are at your door, that should be enough to knock you into sobriety. That alone makes me super suspicious of Adnan. Serial didn't pay all that much attention to Don. I learned more about him from this episode than I learned on Serial. 

[Milburn Stone 7.2k]

The second episode was more compelling than the first.

I thought I wasn't going to watch this show because I was a fan of Serial and I thought, well, what more is this show going to tell me? But it really is adding a lot of dimension to the story. Seeing trial footage, hearing police tapes, following the private investigators, just simply being able to lay eyes on the cast of characters--that's all making it worth the watch for me.

[CaliCheeseSucks 1.7k]

On 3/11/2019 at 8:43 PM, ghoulina said:

Also, I felt uncomfortable hearing directly from a dead girl's diary. I guess her parents gave it to them? It just felt like an invasion of privacy. I understand why detectives in the case would have it. But I think you can give an overview of her thoughts and feelings without reading straight from it. 

Hae's diary was included with appeal filings, so it is a public record.

[ghoulina 121.6k]

2 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Hae's diary was included with appeal filings, so it is a public record.

That's all well and good. I just think it felt a bit invasive to hear it read like that. I would have been fine if they had a lawyer or detective citing the diary - something like, "According to Hae, she and Adnan were ____". But she's a dead girl. Everything was taken from her. I feel like they could have got certain points across without having all her "my baby" this and that read aloud to the world. 

[lucindabelle 4.3k]

I too was a HUGE fan of Serial. So far, not much I did not know, but I am enjoying putting faces to names. My brother who is a lawyer is very interested since I guess he remembers well my going around saying FREE ADNAN lol.

To me it's already so clear that the only evidence they ever had was Jay telling people Adnan said or did this or that.

[Maire 3.2k]

I understood the presentation of Serial on the podcast and found it compelling. This production feels kind of disjointed.

[biakbiak 56.8k]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But she's a dead girl. Everything was taken from her.

And that’s exactly why I like them using her own words and not putting it through other people. Hae has so often been an afterthought or. It even mentioned in the coverage of this case. 

[teddysmom 13.3k]

14 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I too was a HUGE fan of Serial. So far, not much I did not know, but I am enjoying putting faces to names. My brother who is a lawyer is very interested since I guess he remembers well my going around saying FREE ADNAN lol.

To me it's already so clear that the only evidence they ever had was Jay telling people Adnan said or did this or that.

I was getting confused with all the various stories Jay and the two female friends were telling, but then brought it back when the male friend confirmed my thoughts. "Jay would put something on you to get out of it". 

I think Jay killed Hae and immediately thought "I have to put this on Adnan."  So he started building this crazy story, but he couldn't remember all the details of his various lies. 

The police not letting that attorney in, and not stopping the interview and getting Adnan an attorney. Wouldn't that be grounds for dismissal?  Why wasn't that brought up? He was a 17, a minor.  He should have never been interviewed without a parent. 

Edited March 19 by teddysmom

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

This production feels kind of disjointed.

Quote

Rabia confirmed in her book this was basically what was happening

I'm enjoying it because I'm a sucker for anything provides new information or context to this case, but yeah Berg's approach is pretty scattershot, but when I think about the evidence, it's pretty scattershot too. Because, Jay. Jay IS the evidence. 

 

Quote

I think Jay killed Hae and immediately thought "I have to put this on Adnan."

When Serial first played out I used to think this was the case, but I think the more likely scenario is that Jay does know who did it/involved but he just threw them Adnan, because the person who killed her is actual scary person who would/will kill him for talking. While I've heard some like Undisclosed argue Jay lied about everything, he'd have to have started that lying all the way to the day Jan 13th when he told Jen Adnan killed Hae. Jen/Jay both know Hae's dead before anyone else IF  you believe Jen which I didn't during Serial but seeing her on camera made me believe her testimony. She seems to be earnest and also aggravated that Jay had told her buncha lies to suck her into this.

Everyone in the doc is all if only Jay was a lying bag of lies, this could have gone down so differently.

[Sarahsmile416 1.2k]

59 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I was getting confused with all the various stories Jay and the two female friends were telling, but then brought it back when the male friend confirmed my thoughts. "Jay would put something on you to get out of it". 

I think Jay killed Hae and immediately thought "I have to put this on Adnan."  So he started building this crazy story, but he couldn't remember all the details of his various lies. 

The police not letting that attorney in, and not stopping the interview and getting Adnan an attorney. Wouldn't that be grounds for dismissal?  Why wasn't that brought up? He was a 17, a minor.  He should have never been interviewed without a parent. 

I don’t think Jay killed her but I do think he absolutely knew and covered up for who did.  The guy has had repeated problems with the law over the years - he is clearly not an angel.

I want to know what Stephanie says/knows. She knew both Jay and Adnan, so what is her story in all of this?

[teddysmom 13.3k]

5 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I don’t think Jay killed her but I do think he absolutely knew and covered up for who did

I thought the one woman said he came back to her house and just blurted out "Adnan killed Hae".  That, IMO, is so unusual if you just know about a murder.   Adnan was the guy who enabled the pot selling business. Why set him up for someone else? 

 Did he agree with the killer "let's set up Adnan".  When they didn't even know if the cops would come after the killer. 

Just asking questions, not negating how you feel. 

The whole thing is insane.  I'm glad these private investigators are getting involved.  The one ex friend who said Jay would lie about anything to get out of something, he'd blame anyone he could. And the fact the investigators are finding all these charges in CA, and he seems to get out of them, I bet by telling cops, I can give you someone on something bigger. 
 

How, in this day and age, does someone, esp. a black man,  get out of a charge of assaulting a police officer? 

[Sarahsmile416 1.2k]

51 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I thought the one woman said he came back to her house and just blurted out "Adnan killed Hae".  That, IMO, is so unusual if you just know about a murder.   Adnan was the guy who enabled the pot selling business. Why set him up for someone else? 

 Did he agree with the killer "let's set up Adnan".  When they didn't even know if the cops would come after the killer. 

Just asking questions, not negating how you feel. 

The whole thing is insane.  I'm glad these private investigators are getting involved.  The one ex friend who said Jay would lie about anything to get out of something, he'd blame anyone he could. And the fact the investigators are finding all these charges in CA, and he seems to get out of them, I bet by telling cops, I can give you someone on something bigger. 
 

How, in this day and age, does someone, esp. a black man,  get out of a charge of assaulting a police officer? 

A lot of those stories were so confusing.  All three of the testimonies - all saying different things, so many different locations, etc.  I had trouble following all of it. 

Let’s be honest, Adnan doesn’t exactly help himself with the whole “I don’t know what I did or where I was” stuff.  I don’t believe he did it, but I can definitely understand why the cops centered on him.

The idea that the cops believed Hai’s car could sit there for six weeks with nobody in the neighborhood complaining or saying anything just stretches all matter of disbelief 

[teddysmom 13.3k]

7 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

et’s be honest, Adnan doesn’t exactly help himself with the whole “I don’t know what I did or where I was” stuff.

ITA.  But in his defense it was 6 weeks earlier.  If someone said, what did you do on  Feb 4, (6 weeks ago)  I'd have a hard time remembering off the top of my head.   I wouldn't have specific details. Who would?   

Also, the part of Adnan going with Jay to the other girl's house and asking "how do I get rid of a high".  Was that the day of the murder or the day they found her?  There could be a lot of reasons for him saying that. 

[teddysmom 13.3k]

11 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

The idea that the cops believed Hai’s car could sit there for six weeks with nobody in the neighborhood complaining or saying anything just stretches all matter of disbelief 

Yes I was laughing when they talked to Irene, the woman who had lived there for 45 years.  People in my building, young and a little older, are usually really good at noticing something that isn't quite right and reporting it.  

[ghoulina 121.6k]

17 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

ITA.  But in his defense it was 6 weeks earlier.  If someone said, what did you do on  Feb 4, (6 weeks ago)  I'd have a hard time remembering off the top of my head.   I wouldn't have specific details. Who would?   

I ALWAYS think this when I watch/listen to these types of stories. My memory is the worst. If the cops ever need me to recall where I was on a certain day, I would have trouble too. 

It is helpful if there are certain events around a crime that help you remember. Stephanie remembered when she saw Adnan in the library because of school being closed (or something) right before or after. 

As for my opinion. I do not think Adnan did it. I am not 100%, but I think Jay did it. I'm finding this doc way harder to follow than Serial. But I remember when listening to the latter that I thought - "Either they both did it, or Jay did it alone. And I just don't think Adnan was involved." So far, haven't changed my mind. 

[teddysmom 13.3k]

47 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I'm finding this doc way harder to follow than Serial.

I think with Serial, Sarah devoted an episode or part of it to each person involved, instead of jumping back and forth between Jay's interrogation, and the women speaking now and at the trial.  IIRC

[teddysmom 13.3k]

On 3/11/2019 at 9:13 PM, blixie said:

Why would you let someone you aren’t good friends with borrow your car? 

Because, teenagers & weed. 

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

Why set him up for someone else? 

He was driving Adnan's car all day why not blame it on him indeed the person who did may have directed him to blame it on Adnan given he would be a natural suspect (ex boyfriend) under any circumstances.

 

Quote

How, in this day and age, does someone, esp. a black man,  get out of a charge of assaulting a police officer?

One thing that has been hinted around/speculated with regards to Jay is that he may be a CI. He is related to a significant drug/crime family in West Baltimore, and he traded info from those connections to get out of his many brushes with the law. Now why the cops themselves would rather hang the crime on Adnan then whatever person ACTUALLY did it seems strange, but there are certainly lots of examples of law enforcement making deals with "small time" murderers to get what they perceive to be bigger fish up a chain in drug/racketeering cases. But that is all speculation based off the coy references that Undisclosed tends to make when discussing Jay and "his family" and his stunningly shady deal with Urick.  

 

Quote

Was that the day of the murder or the day they found her?  There could be a lot of reasons for him saying that. 

It was supposed to be the same day as the murder Jan 13, but at the end of episode 2 Christy is already questioning if she ever really had the right day. Also AFAIK they don't really know Hae's time of death, which blew my mind. They just had a theory of her time of death not a medical opinion on it, due to finding her body so long after she went missing.

Yeah there is a lot about how Adnan says he THINKS his day went : I woulda done this, I definitely did that (the mosque, track) but his phone really didn't support the idea he was ever at the mosque, and Krista was the one who swore she heard him say he was getting a ride with Hae which he firmly denied initially. The very very high young man did himself no favors. 

[spaceghostess 1.6k]

On 3/10/2019 at 9:49 PM, SHD said:

Just my opinion, but I really dislike the animation they’re using to fill in the gaps for things they don’t have photos/film of. Too sappy/sentimental for a documentary. Same with the ethereal music soundtrack at times. The parts that are straightforward documentary style are good, though.

I also didn't like the animation, which made me feel like I was watching 13 Reasons Why, instead of a documentary. Glad they dropped it for episode 2.

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

Why would you let someone you aren’t good friends with borrow your car? 

I was quoting someone else here I 100% was explaining that Adnan was letting Jay use his car to sell weed, in exchange for..... weed. 

Which brings me to one thing that always bothers me is even Laura saying "there was no relationship" between Jay/Jen and Adnan. Like c' mon THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP they aren't friends but they're good enough to set this up, Stephanie is Adnan's ex, and if Hae had said no to him he'd have hung out with Steph and Jay a the dance. Just admit they were friends, even if not GOOD friends. 

[Milburn Stone 7.2k]

2 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

The idea that the cops believed Hai’s car could sit there for six weeks with nobody in the neighborhood complaining or saying anything just stretches all matter of disbelief 

Unfortunately, a safe bet is that the cops figured "those people" would do exactly that.

[teddysmom 13.3k]

1 hour ago, blixie said:

but his phone really didn't support the idea he was ever at the mosque, and Krista was the one who swore she heard him say he was getting a ride with Hae which he firmly denied initially.

But didn't Jay have his phone? 

[BellyLaughter 1.4k]

Did no one during the trial point out that Jay kept talking about "burying" Hae whilst the forensics said she wasn't buried?  She was placed in a natural indentation behind the log and covered....and how was the DNA not tested in this case??

And a minor being denied access to a lawyer his family had hired is an unforgivable disgrace...

So many questions.....

Edited March 20 by BellyLaughter

[Sarahsmile416 1.2k]

24 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

Did no one during the trial point out that Jay kept talking about "burying" Hae whilst the forensics said she wasn't buried?  She was placed in a natural indentation behind the log and covered....and how was the DNA not tested in this case??

And a minor being denied access to a lawyer his family had hired is an unforgivable disgrace...

So many questions.....

Which just calls into question either Adnan’s counsel or the jury itself.  Because it’s clear to me that whatever happened, there sure as hell is a boatload of reasonable doubt. 

[Milburn Stone 7.2k]

A very tangential thought...In this time when it's increasingly rare to have to wait a week to watch anything, I'm really enjoying that I have to wait a week between episodes of this. It builds a feeling of anticipation.

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

But didn't Jay have his phone? 

I'd have to double check, because it's been a while since I did deep timeline studying, but I believe Adnan's story such as it is, is that after school Jay picks him up and they hang out somewhere (Jen's? Kristys?) to smoke pot and then they go their separate ways: Adnan drops Jay at his Grandmother's house, and Adnan/his phone/his car go to the mosque. 

Man Kristy's pollyanna bullshit comments about how "weird" high Adnan was acting bother me, your girl Jen is a pothead and a weed dealer, her friend Jay? Is a pot head and a weed dealer. Please don't pretend you've never seen someone so high they can't even talk, or had a pot head friend wonder how they can shake or get rid of a high.

[lucindabelle 4.3k]

I also believe Jay may not have done it but knows who dd, a truly scary drug type person. He had Adnan's car, knows Hae is Adnan's ex. Why NOT pin it on him?

[poeticlicensed 21.5k]

On 3/19/2019 at 1:00 PM, teddysmom said:

ITA.  But in his defense it was 6 weeks earlier.  If someone said, what did you do on  Feb 4, (6 weeks ago)  I'd have a hard time remembering off the top of my head.   I wouldn't have specific details. Who would?   

Also, the part of Adnan going with Jay to the other girl's house and asking "how do I get rid of a high".  Was that the day of the murder or the day they found her?  There could be a lot of reasons for him saying that. 

Yes, but Hae disappeared on Jan 13 and even though her body wasn't found until a few weeks later and Adnan didn't get questioned until mid Feb, I think it's reasonable that he be able to remember where he was while she was missing. I'm assuming word was all over school that she was missing, it would be weird that a student just vanishes and no one talks about it. I can imagine it was fodder for the rumor mill at school with all the students who knew her recounting the day she was last seen. I think it's pretty suspect that he says he can't remember anything. When something significant happens in your life, like a friend going missing, it snaps everything into focus. 

[poeticlicensed 21.5k]

On 3/19/2019 at 1:21 PM, ghoulina said:

I ALWAYS think this when I watch/listen to these types of stories. My memory is the worst. If the cops ever need me to recall where I was on a certain day, I would have trouble too. 

It is helpful if there are certain events around a crime that help you remember. Stephanie remembered when she saw Adnan in the library because of school being closed (or something) right before or after. 

As for my opinion. I do not think Adnan did it. I am not 100%, but I think Jay did it. I'm finding this doc way harder to follow than Serial. But I remember when listening to the latter that I thought - "Either they both did it, or Jay did it alone. And I just don't think Adnan was involved." So far, haven't changed my mind. 

I admit that I have not been engaged as closely with this documentary as I was with Serial. With each episode of Serial I went back and forth about his guilt. But I chalk part of that up to Sarah Koening's ability a good storyteller, not so much because the evidence was lasering in on the true story. She understands that's a good way to keep listeners engaged. I also think the police did a piss poor job and Jay is probably the worst star witness in history. Why they decided to go with his version without corroborating evidence stuns me , given his past. I subscribe to the Occam's Razor theory of crime, the simplest version of events is probably the correct one. I think Adnan did it. I think he was high and pissed at Hae. I think somewhere Jay came in and helped him dispose of her. Or maybe they did it together. Or maybe Jay did it and Adnan came in and helped dispose of her body. Yes, people go missing because they are abducted and murdered by strangers. But more often people are murdered by someone they know. I'd be interested to know if there were any other similar crimes in that area around that time.  That might make me think twice. 

[TattleTeeny 18.4k]

Quote

When something significant happens in your life, like a friend going missing, it snaps everything into focus. 

That's the thing though--January 13 day was not significant to him; it was a normal, standard, routine day with nothing singularly notable about it until later.

[poeticlicensed 21.5k]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

That's the thing though--January 13 day was not significant to him; it was a normal, standard, routine day with nothing singularly notable about it until later.

But according to what I read, her parents were already concerned the day she went missing. Which means by the next day, it was most likely the talk of their circle of friends. I may not remember what I did six weeks ago, but I certainly remember yesterday, esp if I hear my ex went missing. 

[blixie 5.3k]

Quote

t was most likely the talk of their circle of friends.

This was addressed on camera and in fact it WAS NOT the talk of their circle of friends. Tthey weren't really concerned and weren't talking about it beyond thinking she went to see her dad in California no one outside her family was overly concerned by her disappearance including her best friends  like Aisha/Debbie, and as was stated her friends and her family were two bubbles that never intersected. The also had two days off school immediately after she went missing, and then the weekend it wasn't until Krista's party anyone in the that tight knit group of kids started to really worry or think about what might have happened to her.

[Sarahsmile416 1.2k]

8 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I admit that I have not been engaged as closely with this documentary as I was with Serial. With each episode of Serial I went back and forth about his guilt. But I chalk part of that up to Sarah Koening's ability a good storyteller, not so much because the evidence was lasering in on the true story. She understands that's a good way to keep listeners engaged. I also think the police did a piss poor job and Jay is probably the worst star witness in history. Why they decided to go with his version without corroborating evidence stuns me , given his past. I subscribe to the Occam's Razor theory of crime, the simplest version of events is probably the correct one. I think Adnan did it. I think he was high and pissed at Hae. I think somewhere Jay came in and helped him dispose of her. Or maybe they did it together. Or maybe Jay did it and Adnan came in and helped dispose of her body. Yes, people go missing because they are abducted and murdered by strangers. But more often people are murdered by someone they know. I'd be interested to know if there were any other similar crimes in that area around that time.  That might make me think twice. 

I guess my only issue with Adnan being the killer is that I don’t see any evidence of that kind of anger in him.  Pot mellows you out, generally, so the idea that high on pot, he got angry and murdered Hai is a little hard to swallow. OTOH, Jay, who has a clear anger problem, who apparently nobody can trust worth anything, I do see as capable of killing Hai.  Adnan in a way is the perfect patsy.  I could believe that maybe Jay thought that Adnan was going to take Stephanie away from him so to get him he decided to pin Hai’s murder on him.

The other option is that Adnan didn’t kill Hai, but knows who did.  

[biakbiak 56.8k]

22 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

mellows you out, generally, so the idea that high on pot, he got angry and murdered Hai is a little hard to swallow. 

People always say this but pot effects people differently and different strands of pot have different effects and it’s not necessarily the same reaction every time for the individual. Not to mention even pot can be laced with shit and can make people super paranoid/antsy. 

A dude I was friends in college with who was perhaps the sweetest most calm person I have ever met got high and paranoid as fuck and killed his friend/drug connection and ended up in prison. Shit happens and “it was only pot” has never been a believable excuse for me. I likely couldn’t have convicted of Adnan based on the evidence given at trial but I am also not convinced of his innocence. 

Edited March 22 by biakbiak

[DangerousMinds 30.6k]

How is this just a non fiction show and not an HBO documentary? Just trying to understand how things are categorized.

[methodwriter85 9.6k]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:26 PM, spaceghostess said:

I also didn't like the animation, which made me feel like I was watching 13 Reasons Why, instead of a documentary. Glad they dropped it for episode 2.

Personally, I didn't like the animation because I felt like it made Hae look like she was a Hawaiian or Filipino, which she is not. I am Filipino and I have never mistaken a Korean for someone of my background, and I'm sure that's vice versa. They should have just gotten a faceless reenactor like they did in the second episode for Jay and Jenn.

The second episode was far better, although episode 1 did have Debbie creepily laughing about flirting with Don so there's that.

What I find fascinating is watching all these people in their late 30's reliving their high school or just post-high school days, like it never really leaves you. Fitting because Hae will literally never leave hers, and Adnan has never been able to leave his. Deserved or not, his life essentially stopped at 17.

Edited March 21 by methodwriter85