S03.E14: The Graduates

[Lily H]

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I can't help weighing in when I see that I reacted so differently to a lot of people posting. I think Beth is being very selfish, as usual. She chose to be a mother of 3, and if her kids need her, then she should be there for them and not spend all her evenings trying to recapture her youth with this dance stuff. Randall was elected, so he can hardly quit. It's Beth's responsibility as the parent without a real job to actually do some parenting, and not expect them to waste money they don't have hiring a substitute. Beth is someone who thinks her own desires should take precedence over everyone else's needs. She's lucky Randall has put up with her crap all this time, but in his eyes she can do no wrong.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, Lily H said:

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I can't help weighing in when I see that I reacted so differently to a lot of people posting. I think Beth is being very selfish, as usual. She chose to be a mother of 3, and if her kids need her, then she should be there for them and not spend all her evenings trying to recapture her youth with this dance stuff. Randall was elected, so he can hardly quit. It's Beth's responsibility as the parent without a real job to actually do some parenting, and not expect them to waste money they don't have hiring a substitute. Beth is someone who thinks her own desires should take precedence over everyone else's needs. She's lucky Randall has put up with her crap all this time, but in his eyes she can do no wrong.

Yep, Beth has been unreasonable the whole series. Insisting that William move in.  Insisting KEvin move in. Insisting they adopt a child.  Insisting they buy William's old building.  Insisting Randall quit his job. Insisting that he run for Councilman.  Randall's been letting her run his life.

I do kind of agree that she should probably stay home with the kids, but she has in no way been enforcing her will upon Randall, and I'm pretty sure she will just meekly give up the dance thing becaue RAndall has spoken.

[Lady Calypso]

6 minutes ago, Lily H said:

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I can't help weighing in when I see that I reacted so differently to a lot of people posting. I think Beth is being very selfish, as usual. She chose to be a mother of 3, and if her kids need her, then she should be there for them and not spend all her evenings trying to recapture her youth with this dance stuff. Randall was elected, so he can hardly quit. It's Beth's responsibility as the parent without a real job to actually do some parenting, and not expect them to waste money they don't have hiring a substitute. Beth is someone who thinks her own desires should take precedence over everyone else's needs. She's lucky Randall has put up with her crap all this time, but in his eyes she can do no wrong.

Well, Randall chose to be a father of three as well and he's being just as selfish, if not more so. He's the one who chose to run for an election out of state. He chose to continue running when Beth asked him to quit for their kids. It's Randall's responsibility as a parent to also do some parenting, and he's choosing not to. Plus, the only real concern is more that Beth would be working evenings three days of the week and then one weekend. Other than that, she's likely to be the one to drive the kids to school in the morning, since Randall will likely have to leave very early in the morning to get to work (wasting a LOT of money on gas, to point out). Beth could also get another part time job during the day to make a little bit more money if she wanted to, but she is going to still be contributing where Randall wasn't when he was unemployed for a year. They do have some money saved up, it sounds like, but obviously BOTH parents need to be more diligent with their money.

Beth hasn't really been that selfish. She worked part time at home for YEARS with the girls. She JUST went back to work full time last year because Randall quit his job. She also JUST lost her job a couple of months ago. She already brought up concerns to Randall, who dismissed her. Randall was the one wasting money on buildings that he likely shouldn't have been buying, and throwing money at an election he had no business running for. 

That's why people are throwing more crap at Randall than Beth. Not to say Beth is perfect and that living her dream feels more like contrived TV drama than anything, but there's a legit reason why Randall is getting more of the blame....because he'll be more absent than Beth. He's just as much of a parent as Beth. He's just as responsible for being there and making the money to support their kids. And at least, if the girls are in trouble, Beth is a lot closer to rush home and deal with the emergency than Randall is. What would have happened if Beth was on some trip and one of the girls got sick at school? Randall wouldn't be able to drive and pick them up to bring them home. He'd need to rely on someone else like a nanny to do it because his drive would be over an hour and a half. 

Plus,as of right now, Beth will still be at home during the day, again to deal with any emergencies and she could likely make the girls' dinners and put it in the fridge for them. She will still be able to do chores around the house and make sure things are taken care of before she heads to work. Randall's best course of action would be to leave the house earlier to get to work earlier and so that he could get home earlier on the days that he doesn't have some evening event so that he can be home with the girls in the early evening so Beth can work at night. He needs to compromise here, too. 

I do think the two need to think about downgrading, though. They're making far less money now and it's not a bad thing to find a way to save some money. They can't afford their lavish lifestyle as they once did in their high-paying jobs. Randall doesn't need his fancy car anymore. They don't need their big house anymore. Plus, they'll likely need to move anyway, so I do think Beth's job is going to have to be sacrificed anyway. It just sucks that she'll likely be weeks or months into teaching when she'll have to give it up and find another teaching job in Philly. 

[NUguy514]

25 minutes ago, Lily H said:

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I can't help weighing in when I see that I reacted so differently to a lot of people posting. I think Beth is being very selfish, as usual. She chose to be a mother of 3, and if her kids need her, then she should be there for them and not spend all her evenings trying to recapture her youth with this dance stuff. Randall was elected, so he can hardly quit. It's Beth's responsibility as the parent without a real job to actually do some parenting, and not expect them to waste money they don't have hiring a substitute. Beth is someone who thinks her own desires should take precedence over everyone else's needs. She's lucky Randall has put up with her crap all this time, but in his eyes she can do no wrong.

Like, nope, none of this, no.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/6/2019 at 11:31 AM, icemiser69 said:

I think that also would have been wrong.   The only reason there was any expectation that he might quit is because of poor poll numbers, that he supposedly had no chance to win.

Beth had every right to have a reasonable expectation that Randall would quit because he had told her that he would.  He promised that if she ever asked him to withdraw, he would do that.  And he went back on that promise.  A promise like that, made to a spouse, is a pretty sacred thing.  

That's the reason, IMO, that he should have quit.  Not because of poll numbers or anything else.   But because he had made a promise to his wife.

[DebbieM4]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:25 PM, doodlebug said:

What about an adult man who leaves his well paying job (granted he had mental health issues), adopts a teenage girl from a difficult background and then decides to not only purchase a run-down apartment building a two hour drive away but then run for city council in that city at undoubtedly a small fraction of his previous salary?  Randall has been worse than Beth when it comes to putting himself ahead of the needs of his family.  They're an afterthought to him, and, when he does think of them, his answer to any problem is to dump it on his wife and expect her to suck it up and figure things out while he does whatever he wants to do.  

Exactly!  He is 100% focused on himself and on what he wants.  Beth has put up with his eccentricities, encouraged him to follow his dreams, and been a loving and supportive wife.  He doesn't seem to give a moment's thought to how his actions impact his wife and family, and he just assumes that she'll go along, as apparently she always has. 

It seems to me that he's learned that he can count on Beth to support him, and he takes full advantage of that without doing the same for her in return.  

On 3/9/2019 at 12:40 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

You make some valid points.  It's just that I consider trying to help the community with running for office a positive thing and not so selfish.  I might feel differently, if he wanted to leave the work force and focus his time playing video games or ping pong. Both of these characters frustrate me at times.  They do seem to have plenty of rich people's problems. 

Trying to help a community is admirable.  I agree with that.  But perhaps he should be trying to help a community that's not hours away.  The commute alone eats up a ridiculous amount of time, and that's time he could be with his family.  There's plenty of good he could be doing closer to home, but instead he's on a mission, nothing else matters to him, and he expects everyone else to just go along with it.

I think it's obvious that he expects that plans to logistically manage the schedules of the girls and provide some level of supervision will require sacrifice for Beth, the girls, and others.  But not ever at all for him.

[DebbieM4]

7 hours ago, Lily H said:

I'm a bit late to the party here, but I can't help weighing in when I see that I reacted so differently to a lot of people posting. I think Beth is being very selfish, as usual. She chose to be a mother of 3, and if her kids need her, then she should be there for them and not spend all her evenings trying to recapture her youth with this dance stuff. Randall was elected, so he can hardly quit. It's Beth's responsibility as the parent without a real job to actually do some parenting, and not expect them to waste money they don't have hiring a substitute. Beth is someone who thinks her own desires should take precedence over everyone else's needs. She's lucky Randall has put up with her crap all this time, but in his eyes she can do no wrong.

It seems to me that Randall also chose to be a parent.  In fact, Deja is only part of their family because he pushed for it.  Beth is no more responsible for choosing to be a parent than Randall, and she was quite content being a mother of just 2.

Of course "her kids" need her.  But they're not just her kids - They're Randall's kids also, and they need him too.

I disagree with everything you wrote, but most especially the last 2 lines.  I'm not sure what Beth crap Randall has put up with, but this show has certainly shown us a boatload of Randall crap that Beth has handled like a champ.  At some point it needs to be his turn to be supportive of her and what she wants.  Marriage is supposed to be a partnership, and this one is really, really lopsided.

Edited March 11, 2019 by DebbieM4

[ForeverPluto]

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yep, Beth has been unreasonable the whole series. Insisting that William move in.  Insisting KEvin move in. Insisting they adopt a child.  Insisting they buy William's old building.  Insisting Randall quit his job. Insisting that he run for Councilman.  Randall's been letting her run his life.

I do kind of agree that she should probably stay home with the kids, but she has in no way been enforcing her will upon Randall, and I'm pretty sure she will just meekly give up the dance thing becaue RAndall has spoken.

And this is the problem I have with Beth. She always caves to Randall. In all the things you listed above (i.e. William moving in, adopting Deja, buying the old apartment, Randall staying in the race when at one time, he decided to quit because he finally got it that his family needed him, etc), Beth initially was against all those things but for whatever reason, she ultimately caved to do what Randall wanted all along. My problem with Beth lies with her inability to really communicate what she wantgs and to stand by that. The episode with her mom gave me a lot more insight because it seems with the strict mother that she had, Beth probably did a lot of what was expected of her as oppose to what she truly wanted. Don't get me wrong, I blame Randall too but in Randall's defense, he is going off of what Beth is telling him when she changes her mind about things he ultimately wants. She should just be honest with Randall and let the chips fall where they may. 

As for Randall, I still have major concerns with this city councilman thing, as well as the other stuff going on with him. I think he sees Beth as his safety net. Randall does not handle a lot of pressure being placed on him very well, hence his past two breakdowns. Each time, Beth has been there to catch Randall when he falls or fails. With Beth following her passion, I think Randall is secretly threatened by that. 

I like that the show is finally showing the cracks in the armor of Beth and Randall's relationship. No matter how solid a couple may seem on the outside, there are real problems underneath the surface that should be addressed. When they aren't, as I've seen with Randall and Beth, it creates the perfect storm.

[lucindabelle]

Unpopular opinion but- Randall is right.

lets not forget that nobody not Randall not NOBODY had any inkling Beth was a dance teacher manquee until last week.

auddenly dance is taking her out of the house three evenings and weekends?

randall quitting would be a smack to all the people who voted for him.

im so tired of hearing grown ass people talk about their dreams and not their responsibilities.

Beth herself should have anticipated the difficulty before she accepted a job that would keep her from being at home so much.

and, I still kinda think that AS WRITTEN, which is to say retrofitted, it’s herbiwn damn fault she hasn’t done anything with dance in 20 years...

[Katy M]

Maybe if they sold William's building it would free up some time and money.  Moving to Randall's district would also free up time (maybe some money, too, for all I know), and then Randall could be home at least 2 of those 3 evenings.  If Randall would promise to only fly across country once every two years, that would free up some money.  It's also not unreasonable.  Most bicoastal families do not see as much of each other as the Pearsons do.  Again, an exception can be made in life and death situations, obviously. 

3 hours ago, ForeverPluto said:

And this is the problem I have with Beth. She always caves to Randall. In all the things you listed above (i.e. William moving in, adopting Deja, buying the old apartment, Randall staying in the race when at one time, he decided to quit because he finally got it that his family needed him, etc), Beth initially was against all those things but for whatever reason, she ultimately caved to do what Randall wanted all along. My problem with Beth lies with her inability to really communicate what she wantgs and to stand by that. The episode with her mom gave me a lot more insight because it seems with the strict mother that she had, Beth probably did a lot of what was expected of her as oppose to what she truly wanted. Don't get me wrong, I blame Randall too but in Randall's defense, he is going off of what Beth is telling him when she changes her mind about things he ultimately wants. She should just be honest with Randall and let the chips fall where they may. 

I was raised that the wife submits to the husband. But, gosh darn it, the husband is not supposed to walk all over the wife.  He needs to take her needs and wants into consideration.  She wants 3 evenings a week after being a stay-at-home mom for years.  It's not too much to ask. Especially after he already said OK.  I was also raised that you keep your promises.

[Blakeston]

I think there's plenty of blame to go around here.

Both Randall and Beth should have realized that Beth being away on weeknights would be a bad idea, and that there would be a problem with her taking such a low-paying job - before she took the job.

Beth was the one who wanted to adopt an older child, and she was the one who pushed Randall to stay in the race after he was willing to drop out, so she made her bed. It really wasn't a great time for her to decide to fulfill her dreams at all costs.

And Randall never should have run for office in a place two hours away, and never should have expected Beth to go along with all of his crazy midlife-crisis nonsense. And he really needs to get over the idea that they need someone with a dual PhD in Adoption Studies and LGBT studies to drive the kids around afterschool.

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Beth was the one who wanted to adopt an older child,

As far as that goes, they'd be worse off with a baby/toddler.  As far as them wanting more free time. And probably cost.  Diapers.

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Unpopular opinion but- Randall is right.

lets not forget that nobody not Randall not NOBODY had any inkling Beth was a dance teacher manquee until last week.

auddenly dance is taking her out of the house three evenings and weekends?

randall quitting would be a smack to all the people who voted for him.

im so tired of hearing grown ass people talk about their dreams and not their responsibilities.

 Beth herself should have anticipated the difficulty before she accepted a job that would keep her from being at home so much.

and, I still kinda think that AS WRITTEN, which is to say retrofitted, it’s herbiwn damn fault she hasn’t done anything with dance in 20 years...

To be fair, this applies to Randall too.

Randall's career path is due to a dream but he never considered the responsibility. 

Randall should have also anticipated the difficulty before accepting a job that will keep him away from home EVEN MORE than Beth. 

Randall's concern was about money (which....alright, fine, but it should have been discussed before) and that their family needs to be together more, which was Beth's point months ago that he ignored.

So the blame is on both. I do agree that they should have discussed all of this ages ago.

[DebbieM4]

(Please ignore.  Reply is below.)

Edited March 12, 2019 by DebbieM4

[DebbieM4]

7 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Unpopular opinion but- Randall is right.

lets not forget that nobody not Randall not NOBODY had any inkling Beth was a dance teacher manquee until last week.

auddenly dance is taking her out of the house three evenings and weekends?

randall quitting would be a smack to all the people who voted for him.

im so tired of hearing grown ass people talk about their dreams and not their responsibilities.

Beth herself should have anticipated the difficulty before she accepted a job that would keep her from being at home so much.

and, I still kinda think that AS WRITTEN, which is to say retrofitted, it’s herbiwn damn fault she hasn’t done anything with dance in 20 years...

I don't see this as being about dance at all.  It's about the unfairness of Beth unfailingly supporting Randall and not getting any support back.  She finally decided to follow her dream and he claimed to be supportive of that, but as soon as they hit a glitch, his expectation was that she would be the one to sacrifice.  Not him.  

I don't know how much of her love of dance she shared with him, but I'm sure he did know about it.   I think that whether he did or not is beside the point.  He certainly didn't have a lifelong dream of being in politics, but he jumped into it with both feet, it monopolized his life, and for sure it impacts his family.  It's not so much about a dream, but about feeling fulfilled - and Beth deserves that just as much as Randall does.  (And we've been shown why she didn't do anything with dance in all this time - I don't see that as her fault.)

Of course they should have had a discussion about how things would work logistically with the girls and how their family would continue to function as a unit.  That's one of the things that bothers me about this show.  These supposedly intelligent people apparently skip normal communication steps that most people would take.

But dance is not the issue.  It could be anything that she feels she wants to do.  The point, IMO is that Randall is really striking out as a marriage partner.  She's gone along with his wild ideas, and he's let her down twice now recently:  First he promised her that he would abandon the race if she ever had a problem with it, and when she asked him to do that, he flat out told her no.  Promise broken.  And then he was on board with her working as a dance instructor, and he went back on that too.   Randall is all about Randall, and he is making Beth feel less important while at the same time teaching her not to trust him.  That doesn't bode well for a marriage.

[DebbieM4]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall's career path is due to a dream but he never considered the responsibility. 

Absolutely.  He always does what he wants, with no thought about his responsibilities.  For one thing, he insisted that they take in a troubled girl, and then he ran for office hours away which kept him (and will continue to keep him) away from home for long periods of time unnecessarily.  Not to mention buying that building - also not a great idea for a father of 3 young girls who need him to be a presence in their lives.  He's choosing to be on the road and sit in traffic (I live in NJ - I know how even shorter trips can end up taking much, much longer) rather than be with his girls, attend their activities, help with homework, etc.  

I used to really, really like Randall.  Now not so much.  I want to like him again, but I have a feeling that it's going to end up being too little too late.  Not just for many viewers, but for Beth too.  I used to find it impossible to imagine that they would ever part ways, but now I definitely can see that happening as she starts to tire of his selfishness.

[lucindabelle]

Ok but the point is where they are NOW. Yes Randall should have thought of this lonths ago when he ran. Which has ZERO to do with where they are now, where she just took a job there’s zero urgency for her to take.

it may not be fair that Randall got to follow his dream while she puts hers on hold. But timing matters in this world. He cannot give up his seat so she can teach dance part time- at least I think that would be a horribly selfish thing to do to all the people who voted for him. I’d lose respect for Beth if she accepted it.

i don’t see how they get out of this unless trhey “put a pin in it” while Deja gets used to stability and they work out a new routine.

does anyone who’s so down on Randall have an actual solution?

i actually think her response- about motives and what’s fair— is juvenile and ALSO doesn’t get anywhere near a solution. 

Given that she improbably gets offered classes to teach although she hasn’t danced since high school (hell why not just cast her in a broadway play while you’re at it writers), why would she be any worse off if she waited six months?

eta: I too think they may be overthinking and some middle ground could be found. But it feels contrived anyway that this place just happened to have an opening for Beth to teach so much just like that...

Edited March 12, 2019 by lucindabelle

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Ok but the point is where they are NOW. Yes Randall should have thought of this lonths ago when he ran. Which has ZERO to do with where they are now, where she just took a job there’s zero urgency for her to take.

it may not be fair that Randall got to follow his dream while she puts hers on hold. But timing matters in this world. He cannot give up his seat so she can teach dance part time- at least I think that would be a horribly selfish thing to do to all the people who voted for him. I’d lose respect for Beth if she accepted it.

i don’t see how they get out of this unless trhey “put a pin in it” while Deja gets used to stability and they work out a new routine.

does anyone who’s so down on Randall have an actual solution?

i actually think her response- about motives and what’s fair— is juvenile and ALSO doesn’t get anywhere near a solution. 

Given that she improbably gets offered classes to teach although she hasn’t danced since high school (hell why not just cast her in a broadway play while you’re at it writers), why would she be any worse off if she waited six months?

eta: I too think they may be overthinking and some middle ground could be found. But it feels contrived anyway that this place just happened to have an opening for Beth to teach so much just like that...

Well, I think the problem is still going to be there six months from now. Unfortunately, the only good solution is to move to Philly. That way, Beth could still live out her dream since the two could alternate on who’s home in the evenings. 

I don’t disagree the whole thing is implausible. It’s just being written for drama, rather than realism like the show claims it does. But Beth’s job is still just part time. The girls could realistically be home alone for a couple of hours if not for the whole stability remark from Deja. The solution isn’t to ask Beth to quit her new job just because Randall can’t make it home for dinner all five nights during the week. The solution is to sit down and have all five discuss it together, not have one man decide that he knows what the best solution is. Work out a potential plan with the entire family before jumping to conclusions. 

[debraran]

It was lame for suddenly money to be an issue and how expensive child care is etc. The way they showed Randall in he past was that he had saved and invested well. I'm not saying he should use it up but he wasn't worried when Beth was taking care of them. That whole election plot line was so weird to me, I found myself tuning it out and multitasking when those scenes were on, especially the pie and phone call, of course saying he won later, so predictable. I don't think the entire plot device was written well, Beth was always giving in to Randall, Deja was everything and then the election. He takes planes on a whim and they haven't cut back noticeably on anything.

The cost of part time child care is not worth of this conversation with them. Her job would probably pay for that, obviously Beth needs more income, but don't have the need for some special Mary Poppins be a reason for Beth not to get her foot in the door. Maybe since it's TV if she's good and takes some classes herself, she can broaden that job to something else or even one day run her own studio.

[Morlock]

Getting away from Pearson hell for a moment, how hot was that blonde teacher?! WOW!

[Blakeston]

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

As far as that goes, they'd be worse off with a baby/toddler.  As far as them wanting more free time. And probably cost.  Diapers.

I agree, I'm just saying Beth wasn't a bystander who had adoption or the decision to run for office forced upon her. She ended up choosing to be all-in for both.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

The cost of part time child care is not worth of this conversation with them. Her job would probably pay for that, obviously Beth needs more income, but don't have the need for some special Mary Poppins be a reason for Beth not to get her foot in the door. Maybe since it's TV if she's good and takes some classes herself, she can broaden that job to something else or even one day run her own studio.

High school students expect $20 an hour to watch one kid.  I can't imagine what this uber-professional Randall is describing would want for 3 kids.  More than what Bethe would make for sure.

7 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

does anyone who’s so down on Randall have an actual solution?

Yes, they move to Philly so that he doesnt' have to take 3 hours driving home and he can therefore be home in the evenings.  Or, they sell William's building and use the proceeds to pay for child care. Or, they allow the kids to care of themselves for a couple of evenings during the week.  Or they find an afterschool program for the kids, or afterschool daycare that runs into the evening, which wouldn't cost as much as dedicated care.  

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I don't see this as being about dance at all.  It's about the unfairness of Beth unfailingly supporting Randall and not getting any support back.  She finally decided to follow her dream and he claimed to be supportive of that, but as soon as they hit a glitch, his expectation was that she would be the one to sacrifice.  Not him.  

Yes, I think I said something similar a ways back, that she is a better partner to him than he is to her.  The problem is not only unfairness/imbalance, it's that Randall is impulsive, just like Jack was.  The same could be said of Kate and Kevin, and their impulsivity has ripple effects on people around them.  They would all be hard to be around in real life. 

[debraran]

20 is a lot. I guess it depends on area. I paid 10 and 12/15 is our neighborhood rate. That’s more than some office workers I know make but it is shorter hours usually with little benefits 🙂

Edited March 12, 2019 by debraran

[Katy M]

I came up with another solution and it's right up Randall's alley.  They could take out a loan and buy a dance studio and then Beth could hire teachers for the week and she could teach weekends.

I think the biggest thing is not whether or not we or they can come up with a different solution.  Randall didn't even offer a choice in the matter.  If she had come home and he had said "the kids are going to need someone here the three nights you're gone. I priced babysitters because we'd agree I would do that today. Here is what I found.  We, emphasis on we, need to decide our next step."  But, he didn't do that. He said "you can't teach dance.  Full stop.  End of story."

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Promises get broken all of the time in many marriages.  Circumstances and thoughts can change and often times they results in promises being broken.

But breaking promises shouldn't be you go-to move.  And besides something that Deja said, nothing acutally changed.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

How many times does a spouse buy something and never tells his or her significant other about it?

If it's over $500, adjusting up or down for particular economic situation, the answer should hopefully be never.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Promises get broken all of the time in many marriages.  Circumstances and thoughts can change and often times they results in promises being broken.

Honesty is also often in short supply.   I suspect that there would be a heck of a lot more divorces if spouses were honest with each other 100% of the time.

How many times does a spouse buy something and never tells his or her significant other about it?

How many times does a spouse get hit on and doesn't tell his or her significant other about it?

Marriages can't be so rigid that couples can't adjust to changing circumstances.  That rigidity will result in the end of many marriages.

O...K.

[bybrandy]

15 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

does anyone who’s so down on Randall have an actual solution?

They sell their large, expensive house and move to Philly where Beth can teach dance (she's not even started yet won't be a problem to switch stuidios) and Randall can go to council meetings and still swing by home periodically.   Selling the house should give them some buffer room financially to be able to afford these less high paying career choices and will have them home closer to when the girls are.  Yes, that does require the sacrifice of the girls switching schools, but thousands of kids (gay and straight alike) move because one of their parents got a new job.  It will be fine.  No, really, it will.   And far better to do it now than when Deja's in high school and Randal decides to run for Mayor or Governor or President or whatever.

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Randal decides to run for Mayor or Governor or President or whatever.

I think Randall's head would explode if he were elected President.  On the other hand, maybe he could finally unite both sides through a series of Pearson speeches.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

31 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

They sell their large, expensive house and move to Philly where Beth can teach dance (she's not even started yet won't be a problem to switch stuidios) and Randall can go to council meetings and still swing by home periodically.   Selling the house should give them some buffer room financially to be able to afford these less high paying career choices and will have them home closer to when the girls are.  Yes, that does require the sacrifice of the girls switching schools, but thousands of kids (gay and straight alike) move because one of their parents got a new job.  It will be fine.  No, really, it will.   And far better to do it now than when Deja's in high school and Randal decides to run for Mayor or Governor or President or whatever.

Exactly.  If Randall feels called to a life of public service, and Beth feels drawn back to dance, they had both better realize that these vocations aren’t compatible with the big house, fancy car, posh neighborhood lifestyle of Wall Street high-flyers.  Frankly, Randall’s desire to work for change on behalf of his impoverished constituency would seem more sincere if he were willing to shed his upscale trappings.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Exactly.  If Randall feels called to a life of public service, and Beth feels drawn back to dance, they had both better realize that these vocations aren’t compatible with the big house, fancy car, posh neighborhood lifestyle of Wall Street high-flyers.  Frankly, Randall’s desire to work for change on behalf of his impoverished constituency would seem more sincere if he were willing to shed his upscale trappings.

Yes.  And, if Beth doesn't want to move, then at least she's making the choice of what she wants to give up.

[PRgal]

Problem is solved if Mrs. Clark retires and moves in with the Pearsons.  Not sure if Beth and/or Randall would want that though.

[bybrandy]

17 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Problem is solved if Mrs. Clark retires and moves in with the Pearsons.  Not sure if Beth and/or Randall would want that though.

Or if Mrs. Clark wants to spend her retirement years busing around her grandchildren.  If you want to provide childcare for your grandchildren?  Great.   But I didn't see her expressing a desire to stop changing the lives of her many, many, many students to get three girls to after school activities.   And why should Mrs. Clark be the one to have to give up her home and her life help out with Beth and Randall's kids?  Why not Rebecca and Miguel who clearly spend way more time with those girls.

[DebbieM4]

15 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Promises get broken all of the time in many marriages.  Circumstances and thoughts can change and often times they results in promises being broken.

Honesty is also often in short supply.   I suspect that there would be a heck of a lot more divorces if spouses were honest with each other 100% of the time.

How many times does a spouse buy something and never tells his or her significant other about it?

How many times does a spouse get hit on and doesn't tell his or her significant other about it?

Marriages can't be so rigid that couples can't adjust to changing circumstances.  That rigidity will result in the end of many marriages.

Promises being broken all the time doesn't speak well for the bond between spouses, and is not desirable.  I've counseled many couples, and would never shrug that off as normal or inconsequential,

Yes, there are promises not kept in some marriages.  Promises such as "I promise I'll take the trash out before I go to work" or "I promise I won't throw my socks on the floor anymore" are not always kept.  But there are different kinds of promises, and Randall's promise was a BIG promise.  He made it because he knew that his choice to run required sacrifice by his family and that it would impact all of them in a big way, maybe for a long time.  It was by no means a casual promise.  

If you're talking about honesty and condoning that it's okay to be dishonest with a spouse, I disagree.   And as to Randall's promise, it's most definitely not okay for him to make a solemn, what-appeared-to-be-heartfelt promise like that, and then say, "I didn't mean it.  I wasn't being honest.  Too bad."  This is not about taking out the trash or leaving socks on the floor.   It's about trust between spouses.  There's a reason Beth tossed him some pillows and had him spend the night on the couch.  She felt lied to and betrayed.  And she was right to feel that way.  

The only one I see being rigid is Randall.  He wants what he wants, and he is not open to compromise.  Beth has been beyond flexible all this time, putting up with his eccentricities and also being extremely supportive.  She's bent and changed her life a lot to make him happy, but she doesn't get even an iota of that in return.   My feeling is that she deserves a husband who keeps his promises and isn't dishonest.  I believe that everyone deserves a spouse who treats them with that kind of respect.

Edited March 13, 2019 by DebbieM4

[Destiny74]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:56 PM, lucindabelle said:

im so tired of hearing grown ass people talk about their dreams and not their responsibilities.

Bravo.  

[DebbieM4]

23 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Ok but the point is where they are NOW. Yes Randall should have thought of this lonths ago when he ran. Which has ZERO to do with where they are now, where she just took a job there’s zero urgency for her to take.

it may not be fair that Randall got to follow his dream while she puts hers on hold. But timing matters in this world. He cannot give up his seat so she can teach dance part time- at least I think that would be a horribly selfish thing to do to all the people who voted for him. I’d lose respect for Beth if she accepted it.

i don’t see how they get out of this unless trhey “put a pin in it” while Deja gets used to stability and they work out a new routine.

does anyone who’s so down on Randall have an actual solution?

i actually think her response- about motives and what’s fair— is juvenile and ALSO doesn’t get anywhere near a solution. 

Given that she improbably gets offered classes to teach although she hasn’t danced since high school (hell why not just cast her in a broadway play while you’re at it writers), why would she be any worse off if she waited six months?

eta: I too think they may be overthinking and some middle ground could be found. But it feels contrived anyway that this place just happened to have an opening for Beth to teach so much just like that...

I disagree that it has zero to do with where they are now.  They're a couple, and they need to talk it over and work things out.   Finding some balance would be a very good idea. 

For me, it's not so much about what's happening as the way Randall is handling it.  He has an overwhelming "Me first" attitude.  He always has, but it's more obvious now and I'm sure the cumulative effect is getting to Beth.  He makes decisions which always include putting his desires first while hers are left on the back burner.  No doubt she's tired of it.   

What's going to damage this marriage is Randall's complete disregard for Beth's need to be heard.  He's making decisions without hearing her out and he's assuming that she'll just go along with what he wants without even voicing her feelings.  He needs to stop talking so much, and he needs to start listening.  It would also be good if he was more tuned in to what makes his wife happy rather than focusing so much on himself.  She has more than earned that.

Edited March 13, 2019 by DebbieM4

[lucindabelle]

He was talking to her and making a suggestion. The show ended on her comment.

arguing about what’s fair and whose dream is pursued doesn’t solve the actual issue at hand.

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/5/2019 at 7:28 PM, AmandaPanda said:

I think it was also that they're needing assistance getting the girls to various after-school activities and ensuring dinner and things like that are taken care of. It would be one thing if it were just having Deja help out every now and then with making sure Tess and Annie are taken care of when they get home from school. However, it sounds like it's going to be several times a week. It's also not fair to Deja if she has after-school activities she wants to do. She'd have to miss out on things that could help her realize what her dreams are because her parents are off chasing their dreams. 

Agree to all this.  Beth pointed out that she wouldn't get home until around 9pm and she had evening classes M-W-F.  Then there's the weekends to deal with; even if it's daytime, who is going to drive the girls around to their various activities?

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/5/2019 at 8:36 PM, tennisgurl said:

Beth: "So, while you live your dream, you want me to give up mine?"

Randall: "Yep! Glad we`re on the same page here!"

Damn it Randall, you were doing so well, being a good father and handling stuff with the teacher really well, and then comes that bit of bullshit. I mean, how did he expect that to go? Going on about how much Beth gave up for this latest stupid thing that Randall wants to do, and then following up with saying how she should just keep giving up more to keep supporting him?! And this is after Beth supported you through taking in your boo dad you never knew until then, becoming a foster parent and then adopting a kid, then becoming a building super in a city they dont even live in, then running for an elected position, despite having zero previous interest and experience in politics! Randall has jumped from project to project to deal with his daddy issues with her supporting him, but now that she wants to live a more attainable version of the dream she has had for her whole damn life? She needs to put that on pause for who knows how long so Randall can keep doing whatever new shiny thing happens to catch his eye. He didnt even ask to talk, he just said that she should give up, didnt even open it to discussion. I am still waiting for him to find a music shop William used to hang out in, and decide to start running it, along with all of his other things. 

I am thinking more and more that future Beth and Randall are divorced. I just cant imagine why...

I know you meant bio dad, but you wrote boo dad.  😄  Made me laugh.  It made me think of the booberry pie tradition Beth has.

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:30 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Quickly googling "city councilman average salary" I got 42,000 per year. So Randall isn't making much money either. Plus his commute is 3 hours per day according to Beth. So he is unavailable far more than Beth is for probably around the same amount of money.

I thought it strange that Miguel was telling Rebecca to go to grief counseling while she was actively sobbing. That was more than crying; that was almost a panic attack. I thought he should have comforted her first and then suggested counseling. There is nothing wrong with that suggestion but it felt like he was trying to "fix" her rather than just let her feel her feelings in that moment. It would have annoyed me, I think. She was able to pull it together though so maybe I'm wrong and it was what she needed to hear.

This is the way men think.  They want to fix things.  Now.  😄

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:47 PM, JudyObscure said:

When young Kate said she couldn't go  onstage knowing everyone would be whispering that  she didn't have any plans for afterwards, I laughed.  It reminded me of what my father would say to me when I was in high school: "You wouldn't worry so much about what people think of you if you knew how rarely they did."   I did love what Rebecca said to Kate at her present day graduation about how the "16 years late" was just the perfect time for her.

I thought teen-graduation-Manuel looked incredibly handsome.  Rebecca was so lucky to always have him in the background. 

I love this advice!  Agree with all your post.

[CrystalBlue]

On 3/6/2019 at 5:33 PM, Katy M said:

They'll just come home and do their homework andthen watch TV or something. Deja shouldn't really have to do much of anything. Besides her homework, which she was going to do anyway.

Three nights a week Deja is in charge of cooking dinner?  I suppose people will say Beth can make things in advance for her to heat up.  Whatever.  I don't think Beth and Randall should be using Deja as their babysitter.

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Three nights a week Deja is in charge of cooking dinner?  I suppose people will say Beth can make things in advance for her to heat up.  Whatever.  I don't think Beth and Randall should be using Deja as their babysitter.

I'm assuming Randall will be home by 6;30 at the latest so yeah, they ca nhave something made up, Randall can warm it up, an they'll eat a little later.

[CrystalBlue]

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

I'm assuming Randall will be home by 6;30 at the latest so yeah, they can have something made up, Randall can warm it up, an they'll eat a little later.

I don't think Randall was planning on being home for dinner every night, otherwise Beth still being at her teaching job wouldn't be a problem.  Is Randall really going to be a part-time councilman or is he going to be in another state a lot during the week?  You know Randall will be making the most of his new job as he possibly can.  😉

[Katy M]

30 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I don't think Randall was planning on being home for dinner every night, otherwise Beth still being at her teaching job wouldn't be a problem.  Is Randall really going to be a part-time councilman or is he going to be in another state a lot during the week?  You know Randall will be making the most of his new job as he possibly can.  😉

I don't know how long it takes to get to Phily from where they live in real life, but Randall seems to be able to do it in well under 2 hours, which is why I assume he can be home by 6:30 on the nights Beth teaches.  Didn't he take Deja there after school once and there was still a lot of daylight left?

Wasn't he home for dinner every night when he was working 90 hours a week in NYC?  Surely a councilman's position can be done in 40 hours a week.  Or he can do the extras on nights Beth's not working.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Katy M

[Thumper]

On March 6, 2019 at 8:14 PM, shoovenbooty said:

Someone who knows please fill me in. Maybe this was discussed and I missed it. Kevin mentioned they gave Kate a shot to stop her labor. After her water has already broken, what does that help, exactly? I know it's best to keep the baby in the womb for as many days, weeks, months as possible before it's full-term, but what will a few extra hours matter if she's in labor now and will presumably give birth to a preemie?

I do know a woman whose water broke when she was 20-something weeks along, and they sewed her cervix shut and she had to stay hospitalized until the baby was more mature. She said her body kept making amniotic fluid that would just leak out. She delivered the baby a few weeks later and it was in the NICU for several weeks and survived.

I have never heard of this happening before or since, so I'm sure it's extremely uncommon. Unless they are going to do the same thing and keep Kate from delivering for several more weeks, I don't see the point in stopping her labor for a few hours...?

Or maybe next week we'll find out it was all a mistake and Kate accidentally peed herself (yes, I did that while pregnant. Don't judge 😂)

I went into preterm labor at 20 weeks, had my cervix sewn shut and was on bedrest. Taking mag sulfate and terbutaline to stop contractions.  Made it to about 29 weeks.  I ruptured, was taken to hospital, and like your friend, stayed in hospital leaking amniotic  fluid for a few days. (They said the fluid would replenish itself.). Eventually, it was time for baby.  He was born via C-section at 29 weeks -- in hospital for 6 weeks.  Now a healthy 27-year old, although his first 5 years were tough with lung problems.  Very lucky, and very grateful. 

[DebbieM4]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:39 PM, lucindabelle said:

He was talking to her and making a suggestion. The show ended on her comment.

arguing about what’s fair and whose dream is pursued doesn’t solve the actual issue at hand.

It didn't at all sound like just a suggestion to me.   He didn't seem to even be entertaining the possibility that there could be some form of compromise.  His "solution" was that she give up what she wants and he continues on as usual. 

Beth is the one who always sees the bigger picture and is open to discussion about how to make things in their marriage and family work.  Not him, unless she pushes hard to get him to do that.  It shouldn't be that way.  He should be in the habit of looking outside his own desires and seeing the big picture (what's best for all of them) too.

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

It didn't at all sound like just a suggestion to me.   He didn't seem to even be entertaining the possibility that there could be some form of compromise.  His "solution" was that she give up what she wants and he continues on as usual. 

Beth is the one who always sees the bigger picture and is open to discussion about how to make things in their marriage and family work.  Not him, unless she pushes hard to get him to do that.  It shouldn't be that way.  He should be in the habit of looking outside his own desires and seeing the big picture (what's best for all of them) too.

Exactly. In no way was that a suggestion or an opening gambit for a discussion.  It was a decision.  I'd actually like to know what the exact hours are that Beth would be out of the house.  It's probably something ridiculous, like classes start at 6 or 7, but RAndall can't handle the kids being home on their own for an hour before he gets home.

[millennium]

In the finale of thirtysomething, Michael Steadman (Ken Olin) finally comes to the realization that he had enjoyed the privilege of chasing his ambitions for years, and during all that time his wife Hope had put aside her own dreams of being an activist/journalist while she raised their children, Janey and Leo.   In the final scene, Michael makes a speech that starts out a lot like Randall's speech to Beth in this episode, but Michael tells Hope that it's her turn now, and that he would follow her wherever she wanted to go.

With Ken Olin directing This Is Us, I fully expected a reprise of that famous scene as Randall finally sees Beth ... but then Randall says, "How about we put a pin in you becoming a dance teacher ..."

Beth should have put a pin in his eye.

Especially coming on the heels of that very good episode "Our Little Island Girl" (good because it featured real non-Pearson people in situations anyone whoever had a dream can relate to).

Moving on, do all the Pearsons have unlimited wealth?  I know Kevin is a millionaire, no doubt Randall and Beth are too ... but where does Kate, for example, keep coming up with money to fly round trip coast to coast every other week?  Or Toby to be throwing a catered graduation party for his wife and a bunch of strangers?   I can't recall another show where the characters so casually traverse great distances with such ease and frequency (Game of Thrones, maybe).

Going back to Randall's wealth ... the only thing that annoys me about Beth chasing her dreams and Randall pursuing his is that this show makes it seem like everybody should do that, and that you're not living your best life if you're doing something you don't love.

That's a very 1% message and, I think, highly insulting to people who find themselves earning money at jobs that may not fulfill them personally but allow them to keep a roof over their families' heads.   I'm guessing the number of the working unfulfilled VASTLY outnumbers the Randalls and Beths of the world.   Pursuing your dreams in our society is a luxury most people can't afford.  Showing us angsty rich people having a sleepless night or two because they may have the education, talent and experience to be pulling down six figure salaries,  but it's not the job they thought they'd doing be when they grew up, seems completely tone-deaf to the real world.   Much like characters who can afford to fly cross-country a couple times a month for a play or party or whatever.

Edited June 9, 2022 by millennium