S01.E14: Someday

[nexxie]

27 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

Yes. Never blame the victim. Ever. Especially children. The power dynamics is implicit, explicit, obvious, conscious and unconscious, all at the same time. 

Victims of trauma often experience denial. Even if you worked through the traumatic experience, the brain can take you right back to that and your reactions can seem inappropriate to others, while making sense to you. The brain can also make you believe that denial equals protection, so I think this was spot on. 

Sad that a mother would allow denial to keep her from protecting her daughter - over and over again, physically, emotionally and psychologically, for decades. 

[debraran]

I knew of this from a childhood friend whose brother would sneak in her room and the mother always favored her sons and acted like she was crazy and misinterpreting things. Even in therapy the mom went once but it went no where. Denial can be huge and you make excuses. When the same brother, grabbed me at 12 in my garage and touched my chest, his dad said "Boys will be boys". Lets just say that didn't go over well with my dad who was brought up to respect women.

The friend doesn't see her family, been over 25years, although they live close, maybe at a funeral, and "no one in the family knows why" It's an ugly secret.

Edited February 10, 2019 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

8 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

If you mean that Scarlett O'Hara was a much better sort of terrible person in that she was much better at actually being terrible, then yes, I agree. 

 

Scarlett O'Hara was a better sort of terrible person because, as terrible as she was, she was still compelling. 

Delilah has done some pretty awful things (cheat on her husband, break up someone else's marriage, lie at least once about the paternity of her child, force someone else to lie as well AND give up any rights to his own child--not even Scarlett would have pulled some of that shit!  Ha!) but, honestly, I would be happy just not having her on this show.  For me, Delilah is nothing but a black hole on this show.  She doesn't add anything and, honestly, this show would be perfectly fine with her completely sidelined or absent.

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

I laughed so hard when they said they'd checked every Barbara Morgan on the east coast. Why would they assume she had to live in the East Coast?

Or never changed her name?  Maybe she got married or divorced, or was using B Morgan as a nom de paintbrush.

[alexvillage]

3 hours ago, nexxie said:

Sad that a mother would allow denial to keep her from protecting her daughter - over and over again, physically, emotionally and psychologically, for decades. 

But this is the thing with denial resulting from trauma: you don't "allow" it. It is trauma, it consumes you. If you have experienced real trauma, you know that any trigger will throw you back to that place, you will smell, hear, taste things as if you are living in that moment again. You might blame the mother but her reaction is very real. Should she have tried to get support? Sure. But we don't know much about the character. I do know though, that way too many people don't find the support they need, when they need it, to be able to identify the trauma and deal with unexpected life triggers in a better way.

[tennisgurl]

As soon as I heard that Regina had an uncle she didnt want around, I knew where this was going...and I had/have mixed feelings. On the one hand, the way the story went was truly heartbreaking and horrible for poor Regina, and the acting was excellent by everyone involved. And it was even a good use of Maggie, although I continue to be confused as to why this person who hardly knows any of these people is here for all of their big moments. 

On the other hand...do we really need even MORE drama here? We already have multiple suicides, infidelity, alcoholism, multiple cancers, tons of deaths, sexuality, divorce, depression, etc. do we really have the time to deal with such a sensitive, important issue like molestation? It almost seems like overkill at this point, and I wonder how often this will even come up from now on. This is a pretty big deal, especially with Regina and her mom coming together, and while I dont think they would want to now obsess over it, its still not the kind of thing you just mention in one episode and never again. It also kind of seemed like it made things a little bit too easy for Regina and her mom to reconnect and have a nice moment. I know Regina said that they still had stuff to work out, but it all happened so quickly, even after this huge revelation about Regina's past. It almost felt like the writers saying "Well, we need some big issue for Regina to be dealing with, because everyone else has something. Well, she IS a woman, so that means its baby related, or sexual abuse related...lets go with molestation, we haven't had that one yet!"  And I really, REALLY hope that this wasn't the reason Regina didnt want kids, and now that she has finally talked about it, she wants kids now. Because what kind of person wouldn't want children unless there was something wrong with them!?!

Does Delilah have some kind of weird mutant power that makes men gravitate towards her, and want to protect her? Because I have no clue why else so many dudes are doting on her all of the time and wanting to do stuff for her. I mean, I kind of buy that a widower would be interested in her, but doing all of this for for her because of one conversation they had at a gas pump? Good lord! And I found the whole thing with everyone cheering Delilah on for taking her ring off to be pretty damn ridiculous. I mean, its been less than six months since his sudden suicide, and she is, as far as most people know, pregnant with his baby. Not really the time most people are on the prowl again. Of course, Delilah wasn't exactly committed to her marriage even before Jon died, so maybe this is all to be expected. And despite that, I still thought Gary was being a patronizing dick with Delilah and widower guy. Delilah is a grown adult, she can make her own choices, she doesent need her friend being like "your so sweet and innocent, you cant be expected to know what people are like" when she tries to move on. Is there no middle ground between "get it girl!" and "get that chastity belt on!"?

Edited February 10, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Gothish520]

8 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Delilah as a character has not been given much to do. She’s been portrayed as essentially a helpless woman with no clue about who her husband was, or the amount of pain he was in. She chose to have an affair with someone from her inner circle of friends, with little thought to the damage it would do to the people around her, yet she’s been totally forgiven. She even got the wife of her lover to help her figure out her financial situation, but she’s shown no remorse for the affair, no resolve to take care of her family, other than to get others to do it for her, and now she’s on to the next new guy. She’s very poorly written, in my opinion, and so far, has not been given any storyline that makes me care about her. Yet, every man in the show dotes on her. Why?  Make me care about an adulteress who hasn’t shed a single tear over her husband (that we’ve been shown) and maybe I’d get on board.

Katherine as a character was vilified initially, yet with far less screen time, and less support from the other characters on the show, she’s been written and acted in a way that makes me care what happens to her. I’m far more invested in that story, than whether or not Delilah will be able to arrange the flowers in time for the restaurant opening. 

Katherine has been given agency, Delilah has not.

Delilah has cried and has shown remorse, absolutely. If people don't want to accept it or believe that it is sincere that is a different story, but she has absolutely been shown to be torn up about all of it.

Regina had no clue about the amount of pain Rome was in either. It's been well-established that both Jon and Rome hid their feelings from their spouses.  And Jon hid a bunch of other stuff as well. 

 I can't help wondering if part of the disconnect here is that Delilah is French. People are people, sure, but there are cultural differences in how men and women relate to each other and how people act in general when it comes to the United States versus Europe. The "helpless female" act typically does not fly very well here in the US. I'm inclined to be more forgiving towards Delilah because she is not an American and, as was just stated in this episode, she spent the first 24 years of her life in France. Not so much about the infidelity though, of course. That's sucky behavior no matter where you're from.

[cardigirl]

29 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Delilah has cried and has shown remorse, absolutely. If people don't want to accept it or believe that it is sincere that is a different story, but she has absolutely been shown to be torn up about all of it.

Regina had no clue about the amount of pain Rome was in either. It's been well-established that both Jon and Rome hid their feelings from their spouses.  And Jon hid a bunch of other stuff as well. 

 I can't help wondering if part of the disconnect here is that Delilah is French. People are people, sure, but there are cultural differences in how men and women relate to each other and how people act in general when it comes to the United States versus Europe. The "helpless female" act typically does not fly very well here in the US. I'm inclined to be more forgiving towards Delilah because she is not an American and, as was just stated in this episode, she spent the first 24 years of her life in France. Not so much about the infidelity though, of course. That's sucky behavior no matter where you're from.

Delilah has had one or two conversations since the affair came out where she expressed sorrow. I don’t recall her being shown missing her husband. Even if she felt the marriage was over, surely there would be some of that (apart from an awkward Friday night pizza party with her lover’s wife in the kitchen with her). I’m saying, that as the character has been written, I’m not seeing her written with any agency. 

I don’t see her excusing her behavior as “oh well, I am French, and we French have affairs as a matter of course.” Not once has that been made an issue in the show. 

This is why I don’t care for the character, but we can agree to disagree. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Delilah has cried and has shown remorse, absolutely. If people don't want to accept it or believe that it is sincere that is a different story, but she has absolutely been shown to be torn up about all of it.

Regina had no clue about the amount of pain Rome was in either. It's been well-established that both Jon and Rome hid their feelings from their spouses.  And Jon hid a bunch of other stuff as well. 

 I can't help wondering if part of the disconnect here is that Delilah is French. People are people, sure, but there are cultural differences in how men and women relate to each other and how people act in general when it comes to the United States versus Europe. The "helpless female" act typically does not fly very well here in the US. I'm inclined to be more forgiving towards Delilah because she is not an American and, as was just stated in this episode, she spent the first 24 years of her life in France. Not so much about the infidelity though, of course. That's sucky behavior no matter where you're from.

I think my problem with Delilah is that the writers are trying to do to many things with her rather than playing to Szostak’s strengths. Delilah’s best scenes were when Sophie got suspended and when Danny came out. Using her kids simply as a plot device hurts Delilah as a character. In one episode Delilah is the worried mother, in another she’s the conflicted lover, in yet another she’s the worried business owner and so on. She is used wherever the plot needs her in each week which makes her feel more disingenuous to me. 

For example in this episode they could have given Delilah something to do with her kids in addition to the restaurant issues. Just a simple reminder that she is also a struggling newly single mom would have instantly made her seem less like a helpless person relying on someone else to solve her problems. In contrast Eddie’s scenes with Theo provide a constant reminder that for all his faults he is a great dad which instantly makes him more likeable.

All the characters have the same problem but it is more glaring with Delilah because she is apart of multiple plots. 

[nexxie]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

But this is the thing with denial resulting from trauma: you don't "allow" it. It is trauma, it consumes you. If you have experienced real trauma, you know that any trigger will throw you back to that place, you will smell, hear, taste things as if you are living in that moment again. You might blame the mother but her reaction is very real. Should she have tried to get support? Sure. But we don't know much about the character. I do know though, that way too many people don't find the support they need, when they need it, to be able to identify the trauma and deal with unexpected life triggers in a better way.

It’s not like it happened and she was never faced with the truth again - her own daughter presented her with the truth, and at that point (if not before) a conscious decision was made.

[WhosThatGirl]

Again you guys I have to bring up my joke that this show should be called “a million little cliches”.

[Gothish520]

44 minutes ago, Dani said:

I think my problem with Delilah is that the writers are trying to do to many things with her rather than playing to Szostak’s strengths. Delilah’s best scenes were when Sophie got suspended and when Danny came out. Using her kids simply as a plot device hurts Delilah as a character. In one episode Delilah is the worried mother, in another she’s the conflicted lover, in yet another she’s the worried business owner and so on. She is used wherever the plot needs her in each week which makes her feel more disingenuous to me. 

For example in this episode they could have given Delilah something to do with her kids in addition to the restaurant issues. Just a simple reminder that she is also a struggling newly single mom would have instantly made her seem less like a helpless person relying on someone else to solve her problems. In contrast Eddie’s scenes with Theo provide a constant reminder that for all his faults he is a great dad which instantly makes him more likeable.

All the characters have the same problem but it is more glaring with Delilah because she is apart of multiple plots. 

But is it possible, or even necessary, to always show a character as mother or businesswoman or lover? Can't they be all those things without showing it in every episode?  For me, the kids do not have to be shown in every episode and Delilah does not have to be shown doting on them or scolding them or mothering them for me to remember that she has children. There is only so much time in every episode to tell a lot of stories. It's like people who have issues with Gary not being shown at work. We know he has a job - I don't need to see him sitting at his desk every episode, or even at all. It's perfectly fine for me to not see characters at work.

[Lady Calypso]

So, despite my annoyance that another trope is being thrown in on this soap opera show, Christina Moses did a fantastic job with the material, so it wasn't all bad. I thought this was a powerful episode because of the Regina stuff, and she definitely is the strongest actress on the show, so she should be used more. My main worry is that they use this to get Regina to change her mind about kids, because you just KNOW this is coming up in a few episodes. 

I don't get why Delilah and Eddie are happily pursuing other people. Weren't they supposed to be true love or whatever? Is this DJ Nash's way of saying that they won't be together, or are they simply stalling? 

So....they waited months to get the liquor license? Really? Any smart businessperson would have had that secured months ago. And since we know this episode skipped three months ahead (I guess to get to the season finale where Delilah obviously gives birth?), they didn't have time to secure a license in more than the three months that they were working on the restaurant? Really?

Despite my dislike for Delilah, I was seriously annoyed with people pressuring her to take off the ring. IIRC, didn't people ask her about her ring earlier in the season and why she hadn't taken it off yet? So it annoys me that there is apparently some "time frame" to which Delilah must "move on" or something.  I will say her scenes with Andrew are not bad. James Tupper is a good actor and at least he doesn't seem connected to Jon or his inner circle in any way....so a step up from Eddie. But still, it is weird for him to be so invested in Delilah from the start. Good for her, I guess. 

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Does Delilah have some kind of weird mutant power that makes men gravitate towards her, and want to protect her? Because I have no clue why else so many dudes are doting on her all of the time and wanting to do stuff for her. I mean, I kind of buy that a widower would be interested in her, but doing all of this for for her because of one conversation they had at a gas pump? Good lord! And I found the whole thing with everyone cheering Delilah on for taking her ring off to be pretty damn ridiculous. I mean, its been less than six months since his sudden suicide, and she is, as far as most people know, pregnant with his baby. Not really the time most people are on the prowl again. Of course, Delilah wasn't exactly committed to her marriage even before Jon died, so maybe this is all to be expected. And despite that, I still thought Eddie was being a patronizing dick with Delilah and widower guy. Delilah is a grown adult, she can make her own choices, she doesent need her friend being like "your so sweet and innocent, you cant be expected to know what people are like" when she tries to move on. Is there no middle ground between "get it girl!" and "get that chastity belt on!"?

I'm telling ya, it's the French thing. Men find the accent and the "damsel in distress" a turn-on!

I'm being a bit facetious, but I do think the accent and Delilah's overall fragile flower personality are attractive to some men. 

It does seem a bit early for folks to be egging her on to remove her ring and get out there.  But in Gary's case, I think he just wants to protect and control everyone in his life because he is afraid of losing them. Jon's suicide really did a number on him, and falling for a woman who is fighting her own devastating battle is just piling on more feelings of helplessness.

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Does Delilah have some kind of weird mutant power that makes men gravitate towards her, and want to protect her? Because I have no clue why else so many dudes are doting on her all of the time and wanting to do stuff for her. I mean, I kind of buy that a widower would be interested in her, but doing all of this for for her because of one conversation they had at a gas pump? Good lord! And I found the whole thing with everyone cheering Delilah on for taking her ring off to be pretty damn ridiculous. I mean, its been less than six months since his sudden suicide, and she is, as far as most people know, pregnant with his baby. Not really the time most people are on the prowl again. Of course, Delilah wasn't exactly committed to her marriage even before Jon died, so maybe this is all to be expected. And despite that, I still thought Eddie was being a patronizing dick with Delilah and widower guy. Delilah is a grown adult, she can make her own choices, she doesent need her friend being like "your so sweet and innocent, you cant be expected to know what people are like" when she tries to move on. Is there no middle ground between "get it girl!" and "get that chastity belt on!"?

4

It took me a second, but I think that you mean Gary, not Eddie?  Anyway, I'm not sure if the show has moved away from Eddie and Delilah, but I hope it has.  As for Delilah on the prowl--on one hand, I get it in that Delilah is in the 2nd trimester and many women are blessed/cursed with a very strong libido at that time.  Plus, Delilah has gone, let's see, 7 months without a man paying attention to her?  

Now, I thought it would be hard to believe that restaurant guy (What was his name?  Jake?  There are too many damn people on this show!) would be interested in a pregnant woman.  However, Tupper played it in a way that actually made sense--he found someone with whom he has things in common and with whom he can relate to through sadness (he assumes).  I expected to be completely put off by it, but it kind of worked for me.  Once he finds out that she's carrying her lover's baby, though?  Well, I guess if you want to be with Delilah you have to get used to the lies...

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Delilah has had one or two conversations since the affair came out where she expressed sorrow. I don’t recall her being shown missing her husband.

 

Exactly.  Delilah has been upset about the change in her life, and that she might be responsible and looking for some explanation that would assuage her guilt.  She hasn't been shown to grieve at all.  Remember, this is a woman who turned her husband's funeral reception into a girls' night out.

[HazelEyes4325]

9 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't get why Delilah and Eddie are happily pursuing other people. Weren't they supposed to be true love or whatever? Is this DJ Nash's way of saying that they won't be together, or are they simply stalling? 

 

I kind of suspect that Nash changed directions on this once it was pretty clear that "Eddie and Delilah" was not working with audiences AND that Katherine's character has become a fan favorite.  I actually think he's changed directions quite a bit on a quite a few different things, which sort of shows...

On the other hand, we really haven't been given any reason to believe that Delilah wanted anything other than sex and attention from Eddie.

[tennisgurl]

The opening of the restaurant really made no sense. They were opening, and still didnt have a liquor license, or any of their other food connections? And like the day before opening, they were still making major changes to the interior? No wonder their bartender quit (and Regina was apparently unaware that bartenders need tips as a part of their income?) and the people working were all so nervous. You dont just open a restaurant because you like food or are a chef, thats a whole different skill set! Its a business, and if you dont know how that works, how will this business actually run?

[HazelEyes4325]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Despite my dislike for Delilah, I was seriously annoyed with people pressuring her to take off the ring. IIRC, didn't people ask her about her ring earlier in the season and why she hadn't taken it off yet? So it annoys me that there is apparently some "time frame" to which Delilah must "move on" or something.  I will say her scenes with Andrew are not bad. James Tupper is a good actor and at least he doesn't seem connected to Jon or his inner circle in any way....so a step up from Eddie. But still, it is weird for him to be so invested in Delilah from the start. Good for her, I guess. 

 

There was a conversation earlier with Maggie about the ring.  It was the episode where the restaurant guy first appeared at the gas station.  However, I don't recall Maggie telling Delilah to take off the ring--instead they just sort of talked about it and Delilah moaned that she had no choice but to have an affair because Jon "left the marriage."  /eyeroll.  Then, at the end of the episode, Delilah decides to keep her ring on while Katherine takes hers off, which is still perplexing to me that they played it that way (the juxtaposition of the two, not the choices the characters made).

[Gothish520]

4 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

It took me a second, but I think that you mean Gary, not Eddie?  Anyway, I'm not sure if the show has moved away from Eddie and Delilah, but I hope it has.  As for Delilah on the prowl--on one hand, I get it in that Delilah is in the 2nd trimester and many women are blessed/cursed with a very strong libido at that time.  Plus, Delilah has gone, let's see, 7 months without a man paying attention to her?  

Now, I thought it would be hard to believe that restaurant guy (What was his name?  Jake?  There are too many damn people on this show!) would be interested in a pregnant woman.  However, Tupper played it in a way that actually made sense--he found someone with whom he has things in common and with whom he can relate to through sadness (he assumes).  I expected to be completely put off by it, but it kind of worked for me.  Once he finds out that she's carrying her lover's baby, though?  Well, I guess if you want to be with Delilah you have to get used to the lies...

Exactly.  Delilah has been upset about the change in her life, and that she might be responsible and looking for some explanation that would assuage her guilt.  She hasn't been shown to grieve at all.  Remember, this is a woman who turned her husband's funeral reception into a girls' night out.

I feel like the women were there to show support and just be with her. As I think I mentioned early on in the thread for the first episode, there were people laughing and joking at my mother's memorial, including myself. People do what they have to do to get through things, and the human mind and spirit have an amazing capacity to self-preserve. 

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Delilah has had one or two conversations since the affair came out where she expressed sorrow. I don’t recall her being shown missing her husband. Even if she felt the marriage was over, surely there would be some of that (apart from an awkward Friday night pizza party with her lover’s wife in the kitchen with her). I’m saying, that as the character has been written, I’m not seeing her written with any agency. 

I don’t see her excusing her behavior as “oh well, I am French, and we French have affairs as a matter of course.” Not once has that been made an issue in the show. 

This is why I don’t care for the character, but we can agree to disagree. 

Delilah was a hot mess for the first several episodes, and cried a lot, for many different reasons. Since she was unhappy in her marriage and planned on ending it, of course she had a plethora of crazy mixed emotions. People fall out of love, couples drift apart, and marriages fail. The biggest mistake she made was having an affair. But it is something that people get past, every day. You can hate what someone does/did and still care about the person. She's not the first person to have an affair and she won't be the last, and not every person who has one is a complete piece of shit. They did a shitty thing, absolutely, and they have to live with the consequences, but it doesn't mean they are evil and undeserving of love and understanding. But I agree that being French is not an excuse, as I said - I meant that her dealings with people in general and the way she expresses herself may be different than the way an American woman would act/react.

5 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Scarlett O'Hara was a better sort of terrible person because, as terrible as she was, she was still compelling. 

Delilah has done some pretty awful things (cheat on her husband, break up someone else's marriage, lie at least once about the paternity of her child, force someone else to lie as well AND give up any rights to his own child--not even Scarlett would have pulled some of that shit!  Ha!) but, honestly, I would be happy just not having her on this show.  For me, Delilah is nothing but a black hole on this show.  She doesn't add anything and, honestly, this show would be perfectly fine with her completely sidelined or absent.

Delilah did not break up Eddie and Katherine's marriage. Only the two people in the marriage have the power to do that.

The baby situation is a whole 'nother twisted ball of yarn. That's going to blow up in their faces big time. And I don't feel that Eddie is being forced to keep that secret - he was not crazy about the idea in the beginning but he has made it clear since that he agrees with Delilah that they should pretend it's Jon's. Have these folks never seen a soap opera? That wad o' crap is going to hit the fan hard!

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

It’s not like it happened and she was never faced with the truth again - her own daughter presented her with the truth, and at that point (if not before) a conscious decision was made.

I don't now if and how Gina presented this to her mother. We don't really know much. I am speaking from personal experience of trauma from more than one sexual assault, first at age 9, then in my early 20s, with bad experiences resulting from these until a few years ago. What happened to the characters are speculation, since we have Gina telling the story but we don't have the mother's reaction at the time. I am just saying that trauma exists and things get messy, decisions, many of them bad, are made but it is not because the person is awful, or doesn't care. And obviously, different people react in different ways. I find Gina's mothers reaction completely believable and, to a certain extent, relatable (how other people reacted to me, not wanting to really listen because of their own traumas)

Being conscious of a trauma doesn't mean that the decisions are going to be the "right" ones. Lucky are the ones who never experienced trauma so intense that the simple fact of being faced with it can erase al the baggage it accumulated. Plus, there is also the culture in which one is raised. Silence feels safe. If feels like one part of you is invisible and that you are able to hide it from yourself.

[HazelEyes4325]

13 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Delilah did not break up Eddie and Katherine's marriage. Only the two people in the marriage have the power to do that.

 

Not disagreeing with that, but even Delilah admitted that she played a role and that she only started the affair because her own marriage was bad.  So, in that way, she dragged both Eddie AND Katherine into her own troubles.  Of course, Eddie bears responsibility as well, I'm not excusing him.  But at any time, either of them could have stopped to think what their actions were doing to others and neither did.

The difference is that, after the fact, Eddie at least admits that *he* did something wrong.  Delilah says she did it because of Jon and that he's responsible.  That's pretty indefensible.

15 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

I don't now if and how Gina presented this to her mother. We don't really know much. I am speaking from personal experience of trauma from more than one sexual assault, first at age 9, then in my early 20s, with bad experiences resulting from these until a few years ago. What happened to the characters are speculation, since we have Gina telling the story but we don't have the mother's reaction at the time. I am just saying that trauma exists and things get messy, decisions, many of them bad, are made but it is not because the person is awful, or doesn't care. And obviously, different people react in different ways. I find Gina's mothers reaction completely believable and, to a certain extent, relatable (how other people reacted to me, not wanting to really listen because of their own traumas)

3

First off, I am so, so sorry for what happened to you when you were younger.  Those are horrible things to go through.

I agree that Gina's mother in this scenario is believable.  I think it is too easy to sit on the outside and think what someone should do in this situation--it might seem logical, but when the wounds are that deep, logic is out the window.  I had no trouble believing that Gina's mother's (seriously, why can't I remember anyone's name?) reaction to young Gina telling her what happened stemmed from her own experience.

On the other hand, I did have a little trouble with how quickly Gina's mom sort of pulled herself together after Gina talked to her.  I get that there is limited time in the show and we don't know what Gina said to her, but that seemed a little clean to me.  (Not that I'm horribly bothered by it, though...)

[debraran]

21 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Not disagreeing with that, but even Delilah admitted that she played a role and that she only started the affair because her own marriage was bad.  So, in that way, she dragged both Eddie AND Katherine into her own troubles.  Of course, Eddie bears responsibility as well, I'm not excusing him.  But at any time, either of them could have stopped to think what their actions were doing to others and neither did.

The difference is that, after the fact, Eddie at least admits that *he* did something wrong.  Delilah says she did it because of Jon and that he's responsible.  That's pretty indefensible.

I agree, all are to blame but at least Eddie was pro-active, Delilah didn't seem to have a plan and it withered quickly. She needs to have something or someone to blame for everything. Is she worried about her children? There are ripples that go on for a long time after suicide or violent death. I hope they show that and if Delilah lies about the baby, it's not without repercussions.

I see Sophie is supposed to find out and since HIPPA laws are so lax on this show, it could be a million little ways. ; )  I don't understand why the baby was brought into it, I can't see the plot. Babies are never really shown, but is she getting a nanny or going to be a full time mom? She has 2 children still grieving and possibly another person being brought into the fray.  Does anyone have ideas on why the pregnancy? They could have been caught together kissing, any number of ways, to show cheating. Why have a 40 year old get pregnant? Just seems like an overused angle.

Edited February 10, 2019 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

7 minutes ago, debraran said:

I see Sophie is supposed to find out and since HIPPA laws are so lax on this show, it could be a million little ways. ; )  I don't understand why the baby was brought into it, I can't see the plot. Babies are never really shown, but is she getting a nanny or going to be a full time mom? She has 2 children still grieving and possibly another person being brought into the fray.  Does anyone have ideas on why the pregnancy? They could have been caught together kissing, any number of ways, to show cheating. Why have a 40 year old get pregnant? Just seems like an overused angle.

3

When this stupid pregnancy was revealed back in episode 5, I think my response was "this is season 5 shit, not episode 5 shit."  It is such a tired, overused cliche and, in this case, it is especially unbelievable.  And they haven't really done *anything* with it--so why even have it?  It's not like there is a deficit of plots in this show. 

[geauxaway]

35 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

When this stupid pregnancy was revealed back in episode 5, I think my response was "this is season 5 shit, not episode 5 shit."  It is such a tired, overused cliche and, in this case, it is especially unbelievable.  And they haven't really done *anything* with it--so why even have it?  It's not like there is a deficit of plots in this show. 

And this is exactly why I’m exhausted with this Regina storyline.  I get that sexual abuse happens a lot, and it would be hard pressed to find a group of friends where someone hadn’t experienced it to a certain degree, because yes it is that common.  That being said, it’s just another plot point in a show that’s already on overload with the drama.   It’s too much too fast.  This is season 1 and there are a million threads going.  And the mystery should be the focus, but it’s not, it’s all over the place.  I shouldn’t have to think so hard watching a prime time television show.   

Also, Someday is a dumb name for a restaurant.  

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

And this is exactly why I’m exhausted with this Regina storyline.  I get that sexual abuse happens a lot, and it would be hard pressed to find a group of friends where someone hadn’t experienced it to a certain degree, because yes it is that common.  That being said, it’s just another plot point in a show that’s already on overload with the drama.   It’s too much too fast.  This is season 1 and there are a million threads going.  And the mystery should be the focus, but it’s not, it’s all over the place.  I shouldn’t have to think so hard watching a prime time television show.   

Also, Someday is a dumb name for a restaurant.  

I agree with you about the Regina storyline--it isn't that it isn't a valid plot and one worth exploring.  And, it was even well-written and even better performed.  It's just that...there isn't room for it is this series.  It seems like it was a 1 episode arc which, honestly, is mind-boggling for the severity of it, but it seemed like they were light on some of their many, many other arcs for this episode and decided to just squeeze that in.

You know, if there were fewer plots (take out, for example: Delilah's "precious life," Danny's sexual orientation and dating life, and maybe Katherine's non-Eddie plots, even though I'd hate for her to get even less screen time), they might have been able to make Regina's story work better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I agree with you about the Regina storyline--it isn't that it isn't a valid plot and one worth exploring.  And, it was even well-written and even better performed.  It's just that...there isn't room for it is this series.  It seems like it was a 1 episode arc which, honestly, is mind-boggling for the severity of it, but it seemed like they were light on some of their many, many other arcs for this episode and decided to just squeeze that in.

You know, if there were fewer plots (take out, for example: Delilah's "precious life," Danny's sexual orientation and dating life, and maybe Katherine's non-Eddie plots, even though I'd hate for her to get even less screen time), they might have been able to make Regina's story work better.

I really wouldn’t have taken much to give this storyline the weight it deserved. They just needed to drop a few subtle hints during her moms previous episodes, tweak Regina’s scenes in the flashback episode, take out the completely useless wedding album scene and then split this story into two episode. That would have turned it into a well done multi-episode arc. 

[HazelEyes4325]

10 minutes ago, Dani said:

I really wouldn’t have taken much to give this storyline the weight it deserved. They just needed to drop a few subtle hints during her moms previous episodes, tweak Regina’s scenes in the flashback episode, take out the completely useless wedding album scene and then split this story into two episode. That would have turned it into a well done multi-episode arc. 

I can see how that would work.

As it was, it felt more like Nash had an unmarked check box to take care of labeled "do something with Regina."

[debraran]

18 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I can see how that would work.

As it was, it felt more like Nash had an unmarked check box to take care of labeled "do something with Regina."

I agree also that there is too much going on, like Nash thought there would be one season and he had to squeeze all this stuff in. Jon's death was dramatic and supposed to be about the core group. Then we got the baby, the on again off again medication issues with Rome, the restaurant scenario which was rushed, Jon's son being gay and having a crush we had to meet, Sophie seeming okay and ready to drive, Eddie off on a tour. The mystery of Jon didn't have to dominate every show but it was like "life goes on" and only when something is overdue, mortgages are late, that anyone cares. If the house wasn't threatened, they probably would just be fine. I wanted to learn more about him and his life the last decade with them.

Regina deserved a better scenario and it seemed rushed. The going to the hospital seemed a bit much and I might have bet 10.00 he would be dead.

I admit I thought it was going to be that Regina got pregnant young, maybe forced, but a young relationship, and she had to give it up.  I knew when Rome bought the baby hat and she got upset he thought she was pregnant, there had to be a TV reason for her to not want children. Abuse didn't enter my mind then, but it had to be something.

Edited February 11, 2019 by debraran

[Dusty]

29 minutes ago, Dani said:

I really wouldn’t have taken much to give this storyline the weight it deserved. They just needed to drop a few subtle hints during her moms previous episodes, tweak Regina’s scenes in the flashback episode, take out the completely useless wedding album scene and then split this story into two episode. That would have turned it into a well done multi-episode arc. 

This is what bothers me about the storyline. I don't think they cared to take the time to do it well. With the subject matter they really should've. It just feels like they threw it in there and next episode it'll probably be forgotten about. It's just not the type of subject matter that you should one and done.

[pinkglove]

On 2/9/2019 at 11:55 AM, cardigirl said:

Okay, so now this is the show? It seemed like a totally different show from what we have been watching. Who’s doing the editing? We get a time jump, no Katherine, and a wonderfully acted, out of nowhere story about a very heavy subject.  My head is spinning, and not in a good way. 

I couldn't agree more.

"A Million Big Things" is definitely not what I'm looking for here. Funnily enough, the further the show goes into the heavy stuff, the more I realize that those "little things" are the only part that I buy here. And it doesn't seem like I'm the only one, so many people stick around for Katherine and Theo, who bring relatively little drama. No matter how well it's acted, when something big happens to one of those characters / we find out something major about their baggage, I usually feel nothing. I could even relate to some of those stories and yet, while not always being able to pinpoint what's wrong, they seem forced. The "little things" though, they sometimes get right, and those are the only moments when I can make up my mind about specific characters, because all their big stories seem to neutralize each other, I mostly find them dull. 

The above being said, I'm sorry, Delilah, I tried to be the devil's advocate, but I'm out. After "I can take care of myself," I can never take you seriously again. BTW, she had a point about Gary trying to control everyone but the fact that it came from her cheapened it massively. She basically begs everyone around to control her, so she doesn't have to do anything. (Maybe that's one of the reasons why she gets on so well with Gary, while it's harder for Katherine.) And it's impossible to have it both ways. 

About Gary, for a better part of the episode I wanted to throw something at the screen whenever he opened his mouth. Seriously, he feels entitled to decide when Eddie should have sex and what's too long without it? Then he lashes out at Andrew (is that his name?) for helping Delilah when in fact she not only asked for it, but also counted on his help mostly (if not only) because she knew he was attracted to her. Sure, Andrew probably has his own agenda, like most people in most situations, including Gary. I'm aware that he didn't know the whole story but a) he could ask before ambushing the guy on the street b) I find his attitude toward Delilah kind of disturbing. I'm not sure if he treats her like a child or a saint, maybe both? Anyway, both are equally wrong, and can have ugly consequences.

However, I also loved what I hated. Specifically, it made me laugh that Maggie got tired of his fake positive thinking and joked about him stealing candy from a child. But the joke turned into reality with the child being Andrew, and Gary wrapped it up with admitting that he doesn't buy things that seem too good. Also, when Delilah confronted him about his control issues and his first words were "I don't know" - it was one of those small moments but Roday delivered it well. It sounded pretty desperate and I liked how well it showed that Gary trying to control people around him is all about him not having control at all. 

[readster]

52 minutes ago, debraran said:

Regina deserved a better scenario and it seemed rushed. The going to the hospital seemed a bit much and I might have bet 10.00 he would be dead.

I admit I thought it was going to be that Regina got pregnant young, maybe forced, but a young relationship, and she had to give it up.  I knew when Rome bought the baby hat and she got upset he thought she was pregnant, there had to be a TV reason for her to not want children. Abuse didn't enter my mind then, but it had to be something.

That's exactly it. It felt rushed and yes they could have tried to be that: "Regina never felt that need in her life." Yet, as soon as they brought in her mother, and her resentment. There was something stemming from there. Now, getting all of this is just feels rushed. It could have been done with more care and the actors are up to the task. However, when it was all said it was: "I had a crappy experience growing up and No kids for me and don't even bring it up!" It came off as too cliche instead of a rational decision and playing into: "people who don't want kids are screwed up." While sadly it does take that form in real life, but at the same time with people. If you want kids and the other doesn't, guess what. You aren't on the same page and neither is going to change that mind. So, hence force: "DON'T GET MARRIED!"

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Also, Someday is a dumb name for a restaurant.  

Agree. 

And now I have a Mariah Carey earworm 😄

[alexvillage]

13 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

On the other hand, I did have a little trouble with how quickly Gina's mom sort of pulled herself together after Gina talked to her.  I get that there is limited time in the show and we don't know what Gina said to her, but that seemed a little clean to me.  (Not that I'm horribly bothered by it, though...)

And that's one of my many peeves with TV writers who want to take something important but fail to actually tackle it. At best, they lightly rub at the subject. Incomplete stories that are complex as this do not inform and increase wrong perceptions of how trauma actually takes hold of you.

[Clanstarling]

On 2/9/2019 at 10:32 AM, Dani said:

I loved that Delilah reaction to Gary was, “ I can take care of myself” as she let someone else handle all of her problems. Self awareness is not her strong suit.

I laughed out loud when she said that, not even thinking about the current episode.

On 2/9/2019 at 12:58 PM, Dani said:

Well, she needed something to do since she clearly sucks at her job. They have Barbara’s last known (and possibly current) address but couldn’t find out anything about her. 

Just another gigantic waste of time to drag out the mystery unnecessarily. 

She was a pretty miserable excuse of a PI, asking for more leads rather than getting her own.

18 hours ago, nexxie said:

It’s not like it happened and she was never faced with the truth again - her own daughter presented her with the truth, and at that point (if not before) a conscious decision was made.

I think that her denial was probably deep enough that it wasn't a conscious decision at all - she'd probably explained it away to herself as a misunderstanding, and therefor explained it away to her daughter as the same thing. Because she could not deal with it consciously.

[HazelEyes4325]

58 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

She was a pretty miserable excuse of a PI, asking for more leads rather than getting her own.

 

Part of me wonders if she actually was a PI, or just some elaborate fix-up Gary did for Eddie.

(She does get that phone call, so I guess she is a PI.  Whatevs....)

[nexxie]

14 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I think that her denial was probably deep enough that it wasn't a conscious decision at all - she'd probably explained it away to herself as a misunderstanding, and therefor explained it away to her daughter as the same thing. Because she could not deal with it consciously.

Denial can be protective for a while - but eventually could not deal with it or would not deal with it consciously becomes the question. When her daughter came to her with the same experience, she chose to be complicit in the betrayal of a child. Then she multiplied the betrayal by keeping the abuser in their lives and accepting money from him, ignoring an opportunity to wake up each time her daughter complained.

Becoming conscious about our behaviors, motivations and blind spots is critical to the job of parenting - otherwise a lot of soul-sucking abuse is passed down from one generation to another. (Happily, I know from experience that being the truthteller and taking the heat is worth it when the next generation is spared.)

There was a comment on the show about work on this still being necessary - I really hope they do it justice.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 1:40 AM, Gothish520 said:

Loved Delilah calling out Gary - it's more than just not wanting to lose Maggie - he feels powerless and is trying to micromanage the lives of everyone he cares about - it's not going to work, but I get it.

Speaking of Delilah, I liked her a lot in this episode, and I like Andrew. I'm on board with this becoming a thing.

I agree - Delilah and Andrew could get interesting, especially if she really falls for him - Gary already has ruffled feathers, and one can imagine how Eddie will react. Maybe the new guy will even want to adopt the baby!

[readster]

20 hours ago, nexxie said:

Denial can be protective for a while - but eventually could not deal with it or would not deal with it consciously becomes the question. When her daughter came to her with the same experience, she chose to be complicit in the betrayal of a child. Then she multiplied the betrayal by keeping the abuser in their lives and accepting money from him, ignoring an opportunity to wake up each time her daughter complained.

Becoming conscious about our behaviors, motivations and blind spots is critical to the job of parenting - otherwise a lot of soul-sucking abuse is passed down from one generation to another. (Happily, I know from experience that being the truthteller and taking the heat is worth it when the next generation is spared.)

There was a comment on the show about work on this still being necessary - I really hope they do it justice.

Very true, just like someone who has an addiction and denying or trying to just pass it off as: "well, their lives are tough" just leads to a endless cycle. Seeing all this now gives a much better picture of why Regina hated her mother and even more how she still uses the: "kids don't come with instruction manuals" excuse. When really the denial and continue to allow that main part to be part of their lives lead to all the crap they are going through now. I do wish we knew more abut Regina's father and if he knew all this or did and also chose to deny it too.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, readster said:

I do wish we knew more about Regina's father and if he knew all this or did and also chose to deny it too.

 

My guess is that he didn't know.  It was mentioned that he left when she was 9 and the abuse happened when she was 12 and I'm sure once she told her mother and her mother blew it off, she didn't tell anyone else.

I actually would like to see Regina's father.  We know from the first time Regina's mom appeared, that Regina is still in contact with her father (and his new wife/girlfriend).

[readster]

54 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

My guess is that he didn't know.  It was mentioned that he left when she was 9 and the abuse happened when she was 12 and I'm sure once she told her mother and her mother blew it off, she didn't tell anyone else.

I actually would like to see Regina's father.  We know from the first time Regina's mom appeared, that Regina is still in contact with her father (and his new wife/girlfriend).

Which really should add a different wrinkle into things if Regina DOES have a relationship with her father in some way instead of: "I'm Regina, I was molested, my mother didn't help and my father left, NO KIDS for me!" 

[Julia67]

On 2/10/2019 at 11:26 AM, tennisgurl said:

On the other hand...do we really need even MORE drama here?

THIS!  I looked at my husband and said "Seriously, another depressing story line?"  I'm quickly losing interest.

And can anyone clue me in on what the deal is with Delilah's HAIR??  It always looks like she just woke up, cut it herself with gardening shears, and called it good??  It's awful! 

 

One other thing: so your "dream of a restaurant" is 24 hours from it's big opening, and you have no liquor license or bartender??  Yet, you have time to drive to track down a sick uncle because you're mad he gave you money??  Obviously, she's been dealing with the effects of the sexual abuse for many years so it strikes me as strange that the situation had to be handled THAT day--and she felt no compulsion to tell her partner where she was.  The timing makes no sense--as with most of this show.

Also, Delilah constantly resting her hand on Eddie's baby bump was just----weird.  It was like they were reminding us "she's pregnant, in case you forgot."

[Dowel Jones]

I read that completely wrong, as in Eddie has a baby bump?  What the hell?

[BTBAM310]

On 2/8/2019 at 11:46 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I did like the American Idol promo that featured Gary and Maggie trying to cover "I Will Survive", with the tagline, "Not everyone can be an American Idol."

That was actually ''I'm Still Standing" by Elton John.

And the promo was awful. I hate all all of those crossover ads on network TV. Like when FOX would have the cast of one of their shows sitting in the first few rows at the World Series.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, BTBAM310 said:

That was actually ''I'm Still Standing" by Elton John.

And the promo was awful. I hate all all of those crossover ads on network TV. Like when FOX would have the cast of one of their shows sitting in the first few rows at the World Series.

I didn't see the promo - but "I'm Still Standing" was my theme song during some dark times. It resonated for me personally, much more than "I Will Survive." So I'm inclined to feel favorable to almost anything that includes it. It always makes me perk up.

[debraran]

56 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I didn't see the promo - but "I'm Still Standing" was my theme song during some dark times. It resonated for me personally, much more than "I Will Survive." So I'm inclined to feel favorable to almost anything that includes it. It always makes me perk up.

For some reason, I've seen and heard it many time, I still always think of Elton singing it to Ryan White. He brought him on stage during a benefit. Always gives me a lift too.

[LuvMyShows]

On 2/10/2019 at 4:07 PM, Lady Calypso said:

So....they waited months to get the liquor license? Really? Any smart businessperson would have had that secured months ago. And since we know this episode skipped three months ahead (I guess to get to the season finale where Delilah obviously gives birth?), they didn't have time to secure a license in more than the three months that they were working on the restaurant? Really?

On 2/10/2019 at 4:24 PM, tennisgurl said:

The opening of the restaurant really made no sense. They were opening, and still didnt have a liquor license, or any of their other food connections? And like the day before opening, they were still making major changes to the interior? No wonder their bartender quit (and Regina was apparently unaware that bartenders need tips as a part of their income?) and the people working were all so nervous. You dont just open a restaurant because you like food or are a chef, thats a whole different skill set! Its a business, and if you dont know how that works, how will this business actually run?

Have they ever explained the "why" behind the restaurant?  Why are Delilah and Regina the ones running it?  Why did they want to run a restaurant?  Why did they believe they have the experience/expertise on their own to do it?

[HazelEyes4325]

4 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Have they ever explained the "why" behind the restaurant?  Why are Delilah and Regina the ones running it?  Why did they want to run a restaurant?  Why did they believe they have the experience/expertise on their own to do it?

Regina had had a restaurant in the past but it went under because of her business partner.  Jon's last business deal (which Delilah knew about, even though she claimed that Jon never talked to her about anything...) was this restaurant and he "left it" to both Regina and Delilah.  Regina so that she could have a restaurant and Delilah so that she could get back into interior design.

Of course, we only saw Regina do any of the designing and Delilah, who knows nothing of her own finances, appeared to be the business person--which probably explains why they didn't have anything they needed to open until she found some other man to do everything for her.

[Suzn]

12 hours ago, Julia67 said:

And can anyone clue me in on what the deal is with Delilah's HAIR??  It always looks like she just woke up, cut it herself with gardening shears, and called it good??  It's awful!

Thank you!  As far as I knew I was the only one who found Delilah's hair a nightmare. I always thought that it must be cut by a weed wacker and styled by a yeti.  It makes her being irresistible even more mysterious.  She must have a force field that men are trapped in that causes memory loss and a complete lack of judgement.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Thank you!  As far as I knew I was the only one who found Delilah's hair a nightmare. I always thought that it must be cut by a weed wacker and styled by a yeti.  It makes her being irresistible even more mysterious.  She must have a force field that men are trapped in that causes memory loss and a complete lack of judgement.

I think that is just Szostak’s preference. Her hair was so bad in Iron Man 3 I spent all of her scenes trying to figure out if she was wearing a wig. 

[Suzn]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

I think that is just Szostak’s preference. Her hair was so bad in Iron Man 3 I spent all of her scenes trying to figure out if she was wearing a wig.  

Frightening!

[possibilities]

There was a woman on another show years ago who had the same exact haircut, and I was horrified by it, but people told me it was fashionable and not meant to  be a quirk of the character to show her lack of judgment. I am glad I have never seen this style in real life. It definitely looks to me like it was weed wacked by a lunatic.