Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes - General Discussion

[starri]

Dropping on Netflix on 01/24.

It is rather unseemly to do so, as it seems to be in recognition of the 30th anniversary of his execution.

[merylinkid]

Watching this tonight.   I'm okay with it being the anniversary of his execution.    A good day to do it in my opinion.   If ever there was a candidate for keeping the death penalty, Ted Bundy is it.

[Calvada]

I watched the 4 episodes today - the one thing that really struck me (other than the fact that Bundy was a monster) was that when he was arrested in Florida is took them a while to figure out who he was.  He had stolen the ID of another person, which they quickly determined.  But they did not know who he was until he admitted it, although it wouldn't have taken them much longer to ID him, once they checked his fingerprints.  Now there would be wall to wall coverage of a criminal like this on the Internet, TV, and social media once it became known he was a suspect in multiple murders, especially murders of young college women, and then had escaped.  

[Butless]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:50 PM, Calvada said:

I watched the 4 episodes today - the one thing that really struck me (other than the fact that Bundy was a monster) was that when he was arrested in Florida is took them a while to figure out who he was.  He had stolen the ID of another person, which they quickly determined.  But they did not know who he was until he admitted it, although it wouldn't have taken them much longer to ID him, once they checked his fingerprints.  Now there would be wall to wall coverage of a criminal like this on the Internet, TV, and social media once it became known he was a suspect in multiple murders, especially murders of young college women, and then had escaped.  

Throughout the show, the police detective  from Seattle keeps having to say things like, "We didnt have DNA ," and "We just didnt have the technology." One reporter says, "We didnt even have fax machines."   And I just find it sad, that even though we are  continuously shown the dates in which all of this is transpiring, throughout all the episodes,  that there are idiots out there that know absolutely nothing about history , and probably need to be told this. 

In episode #4, when Bundy finally starts talking about his crimes, we only get to hear a part of that recording. Try and find it on youtube, if it's still there.  He talks at length, whispering through the opening in that cell.  That is without a doubt more disturbing than anything that he said in these episodes.  He talks about the necrophilia, and the heads he took back to his apartment, and even about trying to burn a couple of skulls in his then girlfriend's fireplace while she's out shopping.

I wanted to know if they did abide his wishes and scatter his ashes in the Washington mountains. I hope they did not, since he says it was there that he was happiest, and which is also where raped and murdered, and raped again, the bodies of his Washington victims. Fuck that guy and fuck his last wishes.

[Butless]

Carol Boone, who married this Ted in court and illegally had relations with him to sire a kid...has such a face in need of a punch. 

I assume she must be dead, since they basically called her crazy. And also is it possible that his first gf, the society dame, is also dead? Since they named and showed her, a few times. I believe that is the first time that's been done. Everyone else respected her wishes, not to be named.

Same thing with his latter gf. I believe she wrote her book under a pseudonym.

Lastly, the last couple of books to come out  with some bullshit claim  of "new material"...that author outed the latter gf. And that guy is a crazy turd. He's from Texas or OK, maybe, but he truly loves two things: 1) blowing his own horn, nonstop; and 2) talking shit about Ann Rule. The guy basically waited for her to die and then called her a liar at every turn; that she didnt't know Ted. Etc. 

Oh, and a 3rd thing: he believes  that demons are real, and that they best upon him when he was on a train , once.  I think he went on at length about that on The  Generation Why podcast, where only those hosts would take that at face value, as something plausible.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Butless

[merylinkid]

Watched all four episodes.   Maybe I am old and cynical, while Ted is definitely fucked up, I did not find this disturbing.   It was just a crazy guy talking and then interviews with people involved in the case.   

 

1.   He was NOT the first serial killer.   Not even the first in the US.    The Servant Girl Annilihator (who was never caught) in the 1800s in Austin Texas was the first thankyouverymuch.   

2.   Ted thought he was smarter than everyone else.   Well when he escaped the second time, I would say he was at least smarter than his jailers.   SERIOUSLY, an apartment right above the jail cell that had removable panels?    Why not just hand him the key to the door?

3.   But he wasn't as smart as he thought he was.   He said "the FBI isn't that smart.   They have their habits, their way of doing things."   They profile someone and then look for their habits.   So he changed his habits when he was on the run.   Except for one rather important thing -- he kept killing.   If he had never killed those girls in Florida, he might never have been caught.   But arrogance again.   

Gotta agree about the girlfriend from Washington.   Oh no, Ted would never do that.    Oh he's been convicted, that system is sooooo unfair.    I think I'll have his baby.    All I could think was "poor kid, I hope she never finds out about who her father REALLY was."

[Doesthatmakesense]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:07 PM, merylinkid said:

Watching this tonight.   I'm okay with it being the anniversary of his execution.    A good day to do it in my opinion.   If ever there was a candidate for keeping the death penalty, Ted Bundy is it.

Couldn't agree more.  What a horrible, horrible human being.

[Superpole2000]

I have only watched the first episode. My criticism so far:

1. If I just focus on the "entertainment" aspect of this episode, I would rate it quite low.
2. The "information" from the tapes themselves was of such low importance that I'd get more from reading Wikipedia.
3. I didn't care about the interviewer's boasting of how he got Bundy to talk. It doesn't take any great skill to get a psychopathic narcissist to talk.
4. The show's use of eerie background music wasn't very effective. It was trying so hard to be ominous and scary, but it's tough to create that effect when the case is so old, the killer so dead, and the telling of the story so drawn out.

[Butless]

On 1/24/2019 at 3:07 PM, merylinkid said:

Watching this tonight.   I'm okay with it being the anniversary of his execution.    A good day to do it in my opinion.   If ever there was a candidate for keeping the death penalty, Ted Bundy is it.

I agree wholeheartedly, and even as someone who stands against the death penalty. There are a few people that death is too good for, and he, and Gacy and Dahmer, were three such people who make excellent examples.

 

This documentary looks like it was made, easily, 30 years prior. The fast cut montages of 70s violence and porn were exploitative. The insistent angle that there was a ready excuse for his behavior that laid the blame with other people (eg, grandfather 'must have' been abusive, with no proof whatsoever). The fact that no victim except for Carol Deronche was given a human recounting. They even scrubbed the trial footage of him cross-examining his victims (!) in favor of letting his defense lawyer say repeatedly that he was in no condition to be his own lawyer.  Well guess what?  He wasnt mentally ill.  Him having APD, in layman's terms now, calling him a psychopath, is still not classified as mentally ill, and for a good reason. The bogus psychiatrist who was trying to stay his execution misdiagnosed him with BPD, shamefuly. In no doubt, because her studying him would make her name, and net her a lot of money.

That that last episode especially was especially egregious in how it meant to plant the seed of doubt that he was special. A special psychopath. A special case. He wasnt. We now know that he wasnt, and he pushed his own death warrant by playing games with the authorities to gain him time. It's never mentioned that even on death row, he had sawed through three bars on his cell at the time of his execution. This 'chameleon' who escaped jail twice. It tried to throw the blame on his grandfather, his mother, porn. Even if they could study his brain, what would they find that would be an excuse for his behavior of kidnapping torturing and murdering women and girls in cold blood, across the nation? At some point in our society, there needs to be justice implemented. But the documentary very easily focuses, yet again, on the  trashy prtying throng outside death row on the day of his execution.  We all know certain humans revel in the grotesque , in cruelty toward others. We have a long and bloody history of it in humankind,  But what about the victims of his crimes, alive and dead, and their families and loved ones, of society in general that was torn apart on a national level by the deeds of people such as Bundy? There was nothing new very novel or illuminating in this telling of a sordid, disgusting story. They hardly even touched on the fact that he was a necrophile, if that was meant to be shocking. Its come out in plenty of places in more depth than it was shown here.

[Butless]

11 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Watched all four episodes.   Maybe I am old and cynical, while Ted is definitely fucked up, I did not find this disturbing.   It was just a crazy guy talking and then interviews with people involved in the case.   

 

1.   He was NOT the first serial killer.   Not even the first in the US.    The Servant Girl Annilihator (who was never caught) in the 1800s in Austin Texas was the first thankyouverymuch.   

2.   Ted thought he was smarter than everyone else.   Well when he escaped the second time, I would say he was at least smarter than his jailers.   SERIOUSLY, an apartment right above the jail cell that had removable panels?    Why not just hand him the key to the door?

3.   But he wasn't as smart as he thought he was.   He said "the FBI isn't that smart.   They have their habits, their way of doing things."   They profile someone and then look for their habits.   So he changed his habits when he was on the run.   Except for one rather important thing -- he kept killing.   If he had never killed those girls in Florida, he might never have been caught.   But arrogance again.   

Gotta agree about the girlfriend from Washington.   Oh no, Ted would never do that.    Oh he's been convicted, that system is sooooo unfair.    I think I'll have his baby.    All I could think was "poor kid, I hope she never finds out about who her father REALLY was."

1.) The Harpe brothers in the 1700s.  But I will more than bet that there were always serial killers in the US, because serial killers have been around since recorded history and Im sure before too.

2.) The sheriff interviewed on the second escape was literally laughing about it while being interviewed by a reporter.  A total attitude like , 'Oh arent we wacky! Whats the big deal, he just killed a bunch of girls; no big-ee.'

3.) It wasnt just that he wasnt smart enough. It was also that he wasnt attractive, like the narrative that they pushed and still do. And he wasnt a "chameleon.' The opposite, he had really distinct features: head shape, nose off to one side, eyes mismatched, one eyebrow, creepy grinch smile, etc*   Looking at him and how creepy and fake he is in his body language and in what he says, this guy would never pass the smell test, unless there was a narrative pushed. Kind of like that kid who smirked at the Native american guy last week. If the spin had not been put on him by his expensive PR, then a few people wouldnt have doubted what they saw when they witnessed him the first time, he was that transparent in his behavior. The best advice I heard given to people on how to avoid sociopaths, is go with your gut. If its telling you there is something off about that person, listen to it. You process others behavior so much more quickly than your brain and thought can keep up with. He is deeply troubling, to anyone who is actually looking at him and not actively being 'charmed.'

The psychiatrist made the watch, for me. He was great. He had his number like few people did, and I love that that is one tape. I also love that he looks like Julie Klausner's boyfriend from Difficult People, because I think that character would also have had his number .

Ive met  my share of psychopaths and it absolutely true that some can really expertly charm you initially, but they cant sustain it, over time. The weird stuff, the tells, pop up.

Even with the 2nd gf who called him in to the the police, there were incidents and tells. He lied a lot -even about seemingly inconsequential things; he ran hot and cold to her; he needed to have s&m to get off, wanted to tie her up, pushed  her boundaries when she didnt want it, insisted on anal sex, cold, violent, loveless sex; he thew her in the river literally and took off, watched as he was drowning, and then angrily passed it off as just a joke, humiliated another girl in front og the group ; gone at weird times, etc He even told her he stalked female college students, etc I think its important to tell this stuff so that people know not to ignore the flags that the person you are with is a seriously cold, possibly sociopathic person.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Butless
Also his body was distinctive. Angular, head on shoulders, gangly -he stood out in that deronch line up, and she even said what was obvious, that he moved differently too, she picked him out immediately on seeing him walk.

[Guest]

Nothing much revelatory in this series but I liked it nonetheless. And I really liked the archival 70s footage in lieu of shitty reenactment stuff (looking at your entire lineup ID Channel!). 

What struck me the most was that horrible judge in Bundy's first trial who I think was in love with him. I couldn't get over how deferential he was to Bundy during that trial ("Oh, the lighting in your cell is bad? I'm so sorry...let's fix that right now!) and the final blow was him telling Bundy, after sentencing him to death, "I bear no ill will against you." And then bidding him a fond farewell and telling him what a great lawyer he would have made. Christ, get a room! I'm shocked he didn't leave the bench to hug that monster.

In addition to being a monster, Bundy was a colossal doucelord. I just wanted to punch him in his mouth every time he opened it.  

And I was grateful for his childhood friend spilling the tea on what a friendless, weirdo loser he was as a kid—laying waste to all the claims he made for himself as a great student and athlete with a normal childhood.

Finally, his mother's Prince Valiant haircut gave me a giggle fit.  

[Calvada]

Ann Rule in a later edition of her book on Bundy lamented the miniseries that was done with Mark Harmon as Bundy.  She thought he was portrayed as too charming, too good looking, and caused girls to fall in love with Ted Bundy.  He always had those creepy hangers-on, his little fan club, as many of these killers do. These women as just as crazy as the killers IMO.  

Bundy was on the investigators' radar, but I wonder if he had not committed the Florida crimes if he could have been convicted of most of the killings - no witnesses, no physical evidence in most cases.  If Carol DaRonch hadn't managed to get away from him, he may never have been convicted of anything.  Of course, in the Florida killings, he changed his MO by going into a residence rather than luring women into his car and by abducting a child during daytime, and there was an eyewitness who saw him leave the sorority house, and 2 or 3 eyewitnesses to the abduction of Kim Leach.

I don't think the judge in the first trial in Florida was that bad.  When he made those remarks to Bundy about how he could have been a lawyer, he was pointing out how Bundy had wasted his life, his intelligence, the abilities he had been given.  That's a very common thing for a judge to do; I'm speaking as someone who has seen many sentencings take place.  And he had just sentenced Bundy to die in the electric chair, so for me he gets a pass on other comments.

The law enforcement/jailors in Colorado were awful, yukking it up about their incompetence.  Oops, our bad!  I would have liked to see an interview with them after it became known that within six weeks of escaping from their custody, Bundy had killed three people, including a 12 year old child, and grievously injured three others.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Calvada said:

That's a very common thing for a judge to do; I'm speaking as someone who has seen many sentencings take place.

I could get behind this if the judge had been sentencing Bundy for some menial crime like petty theft or even a DUI. But for slaughtering two women? And being a known suspect in a bunch of other gruesome murders? I'd say that his pep talk was a bit misplaced. 

[bosawks]

I think the most frightening part of this is that he came off as just your run of the mill entitled asshole.

[Muffyn]

Ted was, by the typical standards of the time (although, as always, taste varies greatly) a good looking guy.  He thought he was more important and deserving of more praise than he ever was.  He was generally awkward around people, so he would have been awkward with women, as shown by his somewhat minimal dating history. He seems to have kept up appearances for reasonable periods of time so that there were a good number of people who could not imagine that this affable young man could have committed such heinous crimes.  He is a monster who was able to hide it to the people in the Republican organizations he worked with and the members of his Mormon church.  He knew how to pretend to fit the mold, at least for awhile.  

Those who knew him more closely (ex-partners, etc.) did not come to his defense.  His girlfriend, being on the inside and seeing more and more of the real Ted, called the police.  It was interesting that they said many women called about the possibility that their boyfriend was the Ted that the Seattle police were searching for.  How horrifying would it be to be in a relationship with someone you could imagine kidnapping and killing women?  And how horrifying is it that women who felt that way likely did not feel they could safely leave those relationships?

I found the show interesting if a bit clunky.  I am old enough to remember when this was happening, but have not followed the case closely; i.e., did not study up on it beyond my memories.  I did work with someone who, earlier in his career, had carpooled with Bundy for a few months.  He said Ted was always pleasant and didn't stand out in any particular way.  He wasn't one to share much personal info, but none of them were; another case of Bundy holding it together in small interactions.  

[Grumpbump]

I have a personal connection to the Florida Chi Omega trial as my uncle was the Leon County Public Defender who was interviewed for this doc.  I was only 8 at the time of the Florida killings,  but I knew, at least peripherally, about the sorority killings and his involvement.   However,  I clearly remember the Kimberly Leach case and was terrified that Bundy was going to kidnap me from my bedroom.   I believe that this was also around the time of the Atlanta child abductions so the news had me terrified.  

My uncle also was a part of the Innocence Project of Florida.  He was a great defense attorney., retired now.   Clearly Bundy was not able to assist in his own defense and sabotaged it every step of the way.   But the State of Florida was perfectly willing to allow him to muck up the waters because they wanted to put him to death.     What Ted Bundy did was truly evil but, once again,  Florida shows itself with those gleeful celebrations after his execution.  I can say this as a native Floridian.  I am not saying that the death penalty was not the answer to Bundy's crimes,  but why do have to take pleasure from it?  

[NutMeg]

I watched the four episodes yesterday, and wow, where to start? There was of course the criminal himself, and how he seemed to believe until almost the very end that he could convince everyone that he was innocent. But more striking to me was the ineptitude, for lack of a better word, of police forces. From not signalling to all other states that there coud be a killer on the lose ("maybe he had died, or just stopped killing", really!?) to not even having a way of knowing who he was when he was apprehended under a false name.

I was also thinking of the victims, and feeling for people close to them, relatives and friends, that must be hard for them watching that horrible guy trying to charm the audience and never once showing any remorse.

Weirdly enough, there's a peripheral thing that creeped me more than anything:  the faces of death row inmates grinning in the handheld mirrors - brrrr. Stuff of nightmares. I made a conscious effort to think of happier images before drifting into sleep :(

[Cherrio]

On 1/26/2019 at 6:02 AM, Butless said:

Carol Boone, who married this Ted in court and illegally had relations with him to sire a kid...has such a face in need of a punch. 

I assume she must be dead, since they basically called her crazy. And also is it possible that his first gf, the society dame, is also dead? Since they named and showed her, a few times. I believe that is the first time that's been done. Everyone else respected her wishes, not to be named.

Same thing with his latter gf. I believe she wrote her book under a pseudonym.

Carole Boone might be dead some people think, but has or had effectively kept herself and daughter hidden well. Whoever knows their true identity remains silent.   I firmly believe she was mostly responsible for the $700.00 he had when he escaped Colorado.  She helped him and he killed another 12 year old and of course the others.

"Liz Kendall" who was his girlfriend is alive and never left Seattle. In fact, until recently she kept the same job she held when she lived with Ted. She has started a new business and has a different last name.   I know it, but don't want to write it here. Check out a blog by Captain Borax and you will find it. Hint: golf

Ted's cousin John Cowell who was the one who taunted him about being illegitimate changed his name to a new fancy french one and lives in Calif or Arizona. 

On 1/29/2019 at 7:06 AM, Grumpbump said:

I have a personal connection to the Florida Chi Omega trial as my uncle was the Leon County Public Defender who was interviewed for this doc.  I

 I know all the lawyers involved on both sides were put thru the ringer trying to deal with Ted.   The shrink, I believe his name is Emmanual Tanay who examined Ted pegged him correctly. He said his personality/mental illness would most definitely end up helping the prosecutors win the case.   The most infamous being that he insisted on acting as one of his own attorney's and the gruesome cross exam of a police officer of the Chi Omega crime scene. Everyone there was horrified, except Ted who was reliving it.

The state did a masterful job of obtaining the molds of his teeth. They issued a search warrant neither Ted or his lawyers would know in advance. When he realized what was going on and started to object they informed him they had orders to use force if need be.  The bite mark evidence convicted him in the Chi Omega case.

            I hope they test (its probably been done) Ted's DNA and finally find out who his father was. If it was indeed his own grandfather I think it should be known as he was rumored to be mentally ill and quite violent. The maternal grandmother also had mental issues.   Ted ruined so many lives and his mother especially refused to cooperate with anyone, even Ted at the end of his life.  He had been horribly betrayed by her and although he denied it, he had lifelong problems with her and what she did.    I think any and all information should be known as to what created this monster.

[spaceghostess]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:06 AM, Grumpbump said:

My uncle also was a part of the Innocence Project of Florida.  He was a great defense attorney., retired now.   Clearly Bundy was not able to assist in his own defense and sabotaged it every step of the way.   But the State of Florida was perfectly willing to allow him to muck up the waters because they wanted to put him to death.     What Ted Bundy did was truly evil but, once again,  Florida shows itself with those gleeful celebrations after his execution.  I can say this as a native Floridian.  I am not saying that the death penalty was not the answer to Bundy's crimes,  but why do have to take pleasure from it?  

 

Thank you for saying this. Thanks also to your uncle for his Innocence Project work. Bundy's crimes were so horrific, I could only watch this by distancing myself emotionally while they were recounted--as if looking through the wrong end of binoculars, if that doesn't sound too weird. On the flip side, I was emotionally present for the tailgating celebrations and money grabs (T-shirts, mini-electric chairs, etc.) happening outside the prison, and they turned my stomach. Humans have been enjoying the executions of other humans from time immemorial, but I'll never understand it. The death of a monsterous person who murdered numerous innocents may be something to accept, or even support, but it's not an occasion for drunken (or sober) revelry. I'm against the death penalty, but I certainly can't judge victims' loved ones who felt Bundy's death was the only acceptable justice for his crimes. I do, however, feel perfectly comfortable judging people who had no connection whatsoever with these cases and who nonethless had a grand ol' time celebrating the execution. They were (and are, if they're still around) sickos in their own right. That society produced a Bundy and then had to erase him should be an occasion for mourning, not partying.

Having had to deal with numerous true crime manuscripts when I worked in publishing, I tend to steer away from this kind of thing now. I usually only watch documentaries that deal with cases which made a strong impresson on me when they were in the news. I was between six and seven years old when Bundy was being held in Colorado and had no idea about him. We lived in a city bordering the Bronx and Yonkers, just a few miles from where David Berkowitz lived and was arrested; everyone was preoccupied with the Son of Sam killings. My sister was 17 at the time, and she and her friends were duly nervous. I remember so clearly seeing that on the news every night. I became more aware of Bundy as a teen in the '80s (of course) and then again in the late '90s when the publishing house where I worked at the time was reprinting some of Ann Rule's books.

On 1/26/2019 at 9:28 PM, Giant Misfit said:

Nothing much revelatory in this series but I liked it nonetheless. And I really liked the archival 70s footage in lieu of shitty reenactment stuff (looking at your entire lineup ID Channel!). 

 

Agreed. I found it less sensationalistic than most (and have to admit to really liking the mid-century stylings of the set, house, whatever, where the interviews were staged). Even though I'm old enough to remember the pre-internet and -DNA days of crime solving, this was a chilling reminder of how excruciatingly long it could take to make connections between criminals and their crimes once they'd crossed state lines.

Edited February 2, 2019 by spaceghostess

[EarlGreyTea]

On 1/27/2019 at 11:14 AM, Giant Misfit said:

I could get behind this if the judge had been sentencing Bundy for some menial crime like petty theft or even a DUI. But for slaughtering two women? And being a known suspect in a bunch of other gruesome murders? I'd say that his pep talk was a bit misplaced. 

Agreed. I rolled my eyes so hard at that. "Take care of yourself?" I was disgusted at that part.

Anyway, I felt I learned absolutely nothing new from this series, as gripping as I found it. Ann Rule's book is the definitive word on Bundy for me (although I've never read any other books on him, so there's that). Her book covered so many angles that this series didn't touch - for one thing, making Ted's victims emerge as real people. I always feel a little bit disgusted with myself for my interest in Bundy, and so I'm glad when any book or doc makes the victims emerge as fully blown with actual lives of their own, as opposed to making them footnotes in their own murders (I am looking directly at YOU, Serial).

For me, the most moving moment was Denise Naslund's mother looking absolutely destroyed while saying she hoped Bundy would die. Naslund's mother was not able to bury her daughter's remains for 10 years because the remains were evidence, and then the remains were lost before they could be given to Denise's mother, so Denise's casket contains only a dress, photos, and a few other things. I felt it was the definition of adding insult to injury.

In fact, the most interesting thing I've learned this week has nothing to do with the doc and everything to do with the tidbit that @Cherrio just mentioned - that Bundy's grandfather might also have been his father. I've never heard that theory before.

Edited February 4, 2019 by EarlGreyTea

[Cherrio]

10 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

In fact, the most interesting thing I've learned this week has nothing to do with the doc and everything to do with the tidbit that @Cherrio just mentioned - that Bundy's grandfather might also have been his father. I've never heard that theory before.

Ted's mother only ever offered up generic stories about Ted and her family, much like Ted.  Louise's two sisters were really the only ones who spoke up and relayed some disturbing stories.

 It was only speculation, as was the father being an elder of their church which I find more credible. Although Louise and Ted were whisked off across the country away from the family from Philly to Tacoma so there is that.  It could be as simple as not wanting people to know locally that Louise had had a baby.

Louise also left Ted at the unwed mother's home at first, only to go back and get him a few months later. He was her big mistake and shame. Ted in turn felt the same about Louise, his stepfather and siblings. He never liked his stepfather, he hated that he came from a working class family and Tacoma. He was extremely jealous and resentful of his cousins lifestyle and cultured family. 

    Yes, Eleanor Rose suffered so much after losing Denise. Seeing those interviews are hard. Another one of the families lost another child iirc. Ted ruined a lot of lives. 

     Although I would never participate in the "party" outside the prison, I think it was borne out of the killing of a 12 year old.  So, it is understandable to me.  They also might of been frustrated that a prestigious law firm from D.C. spent millions and many years trying to save his life. Of course he was entitled that under the law, but many people have said even the staunchest anti-death penalty people could not and would not help Ted Bundy.

What a lot of people don't know is that he also killed another 12 year old Lynette Culver in Pocatello, Idaho.

[Mu Shu]

On 1/24/2019 at 3:07 PM, merylinkid said:

Watching this tonight.   I'm okay with it being the anniversary of his execution.    A good day to do it in my opinion.   If ever there was a candidate for keeping the death penalty, Ted Bundy is it.

He murdered a child and left her body in a hog lot.  There was a big party in Florida the day his ass fried.  Ted Bundy was a sack of shit. 

[Straycat80]

On 1/26/2019 at 8:28 PM, Giant Misfit said:

Nothing much revelatory in this series but I liked it nonetheless. And I really liked the archival 70s footage in lieu of shitty reenactment stuff (looking at your entire lineup ID Channel!). 

What struck me the most was that horrible judge in Bundy's first trial who I think was in love with him. I couldn't get over how deferential he was to Bundy during that trial ("Oh, the lighting in your cell is bad? I'm so sorry...let's fix that right now!) and the final blow was him telling Bundy, after sentencing him to death, "I bear no ill will against you." And then bidding him a fond farewell and telling him what a great lawyer he would have made. Christ, get a room! I'm shocked he didn't leave the bench to hug that monster.

 

Add the Reelz channel to the shitty re-enactment stuff too. 

I liked this documentary too and agree about the Florida judge. I wondered how the families of those murdered girls felt listening to Bundy whining about the bad jail food, poor lighting, etc... Asshole. Did the judge give the death penalty because he was pressured to and then felt bad for it? Is that why he was so wimpy at the end telling him good luck and fare thee well? 

I was also aghast by the Florida jail system not catching the wife bringing in drugs and why was he allowed to get married, have sex and father a kid. That happy family picture of Bundy, the wife, kid and stepson had me seeing red. Again, I can’t imagine how the families of those murdered girls felt.

I was ok with the people partying at the Fry Bundy party but I wish they had shown the families of the victims and got their perspectives about how this monster changed their lives. 

[psychoticstate]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 7:43 AM, merylinkid said:

2.   Ted thought he was smarter than everyone else.   Well when he escaped the second time, I would say he was at least smarter than his jailers.   SERIOUSLY, an apartment right above the jail cell that had removable panels?    Why not just hand him the key to the door?

That was an incorrect fact reported in the documentary as truth.  The apartment was actually next door to the jail.  Bundy was able to get through the ceiling and climb over and through to the apartment  next door.  

What the documentary should have mentioned was that other inmates heard Bundy crawling around in the ceiling during the night and reported that to the jailers - -who did nothing.  The jailers also apparently knew when Bundy was placed in that cell that the ceiling fixture was in need of repair.  Absolutely shameful that five young women were beaten, two died, and one little girl died due to that "error." 

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 10:33 PM, Calvada said:

Bundy was on the investigators' radar, but I wonder if he had not committed the Florida crimes if he could have been convicted of most of the killings - no witnesses, no physical evidence in most cases.  If Carol DaRonch hadn't managed to get away from him, he may never have been convicted of anything.  Of course, in the Florida killings, he changed his MO by going into a residence rather than luring women into his car and by abducting a child during daytime, and there was an eyewitness who saw him leave the sorority house, and 2 or 3 eyewitnesses to the abduction of Kim Leach.

I don't think the judge in the first trial in Florida was that bad.  When he made those remarks to Bundy about how he could have been a lawyer, he was pointing out how Bundy had wasted his life, his intelligence, the abilities he had been given.  That's a very common thing for a judge to do; I'm speaking as someone who has seen many sentencings take place.  And he had just sentenced Bundy to die in the electric chair, so for me he gets a pass on other comments.

Bundy was one of many persons of interest whose names were turned in to authorities due to his first name being Ted and him driving a VW.  I don't think he would ever have been convicted in the Washington/Oregon killings because there was zero evidence.  Colorado had more solid evidence in Caryn Campbell's murder, as head hair matching Caryn's was found in the trunk, I believe, of Bundy's VW and Bundy was spotted by the elevators at the Wildwood Inn by an eyewitness (where Caryn was last seen alive.)  Investigators also had credit card receipts for gas that placed Bundy in the area at the time she disappeared and was murdered, as well as a brochure from the Inn itself.   

In Utah, I believe there was a pubic hair from Melissa Smith that was found in the trunk of Bundy's car.  When you think about it, and the sheer number of his victims (which I believe is easily in the 3 digits), it's frightening how LITTLE true evidence there was. 

I don't think what Judge Cowart, the Florida judge, said was bad at all.  He was clearly pointing out what a wasted life Bundy had, and what a different person he could have been.

That said, I was ultimately disappointed in the documentary.  As amazing as I found Berlinger's Paradise Lost documentary on the West Memphis 3 case, this one felt disjointed, clunky and dragged in places - -which is mindboggling as Bundy is a fascinating subject.  I did like the use of 1970s news footage but I think Berlinger failed in showing how terrifying that time was for women in the Seattle area.   Even knowing that a predator was out there, Bundy still got victims.  Yes, some of them, like Linda Healy, were bludgeoned while sleeping but the majority of them went with him willingly because he didn't resemble what we considered "a monster" or "a killer" to look like at that time.  He could be charming and could be persuasive and could readily adapt into any environment.  That's mostly what made Bundy a cold, elusive and very successful killer.

I'm very surprised that Berlinger  didn't speak with Rhonda Stapley, the women who wrote a book about her encounter with a man she's certain was Bundy in Utah in the fall of 1974.  If she was indeed kidnapped, raped and assaulted by Bundy, her story tells a lot about his M.O.   I'm also surprised,  and disappointed, that the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr wasn't hit on.  

[psychoticstate]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:06 PM, Straycat80 said:

Add the Reelz channel to the shitty re-enactment stuff too. 

I liked this documentary too and agree about the Florida judge. I wondered how the families of those murdered girls felt listening to Bundy whining about the bad jail food, poor lighting, etc... Asshole. Did the judge give the death penalty because he was pressured to and then felt bad for it? Is that why he was so wimpy at the end telling him good luck and fare thee well? 

I was also aghast by the Florida jail system not catching the wife bringing in drugs and why was he allowed to get married, have sex and father a kid. That happy family picture of Bundy, the wife, kid and stepson had me seeing red. Again, I can’t imagine how the families of those murdered girls felt.

I was ok with the people partying at the Fry Bundy party but I wish they had shown the families of the victims and got their perspectives about how this monster changed their lives. 

Bundy got married because, during one of his trials, he called Carole Boone to the witness stand as a character witness and while she was there, they both declared their intention to marry each other.  In Florida, at least at the time, doing so in front of a judge or other court official, makes for a legal wedding.  I believe everyone in the courtroom was shocked once they realized what happened.  So Bundy wasn't "allowed," he just learned the law and twisted it into his favor.  

The conceiving a child while on Death Row is another story though.  Apparently if you curry favor with the guards, and slip them some cash, they will turn their backs while the inmate and his/her partner get down to business.  That's what happened.  I'm going to guess that's how Carole managed to remove the drugs from her vajayjay and Bundy managed to get them up his rectum.  I'd think it would be hard to accomplish that sitting at a table while being watched.  

I agree that the domino-effect on the families of the victims should have been shown more.  Eleanor Rose, Denise Naslund's mother, was shown.  That poor woman never got over her daughter being killed.  She wrote to Bundy  more than once, begging him for information on Denise's last moments; Bundy never responded.  The program also didn't mention that the remains of Denise and Janice Ott, who was abducted the same day from Lake Sammamish, were lost when the PD "misplaced" them during a move.  (As their homicides were open at the time, the bones were the property of the PD and could not be buried.)   The family of Debi Kent from Utah suffered greatly.  Her parents ended up divorcing and Debi's brother died young.  I believe that the father of Laura Aime, also from Utah, died early from a heart attack.   The families of many of the girls and young women who fell victim to Bundy suffered greatly and/or were downright destroyed by what he did.  
 

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:06 AM, Grumpbump said:

What Ted Bundy did was truly evil but, once again,  Florida shows itself with those gleeful celebrations after his execution.  I can say this as a native Floridian.  I am not saying that the death penalty was not the answer to Bundy's crimes,  but why do have to take pleasure from it?  

I was too young to know much about the Bundy killings, other than they had occurred at my college, but I did attend the festivities the day Bundy was executed and cringed at the "specials" being served at The Phyrst that night. I haven't seen this one, but I did watch something on Reelz that gave me a serious case of the creeps.

[Cherrio]

On 2/9/2019 at 2:49 PM, psychoticstate said:

I'm very surprised that Berlinger  didn't speak with Rhonda Stapley, the women who wrote a book about her encounter with a man she's certain was Bundy in Utah in the fall of 1974.  If she was indeed kidnapped, raped and assaulted by Bundy, her story tells a lot about his M.O.   I'm also surprised,  and disappointed, that the disappearance of Ann Marie Burr wasn't hit on.  

I am also surprised Ann Marie Burr was not included in the documentary, but not Rhonda Stapley.  Her story has no credibility imo.  A historian and one of the writers of a Bundy book I have talked to do not believe her.     It would be my guess that Berlinger dismissed her on advice of all the experts involved in the making of the doc.

[Tabbygirl521]

I was 21 and living in Seattle in 1974, and like many, many girls at that time, I had long brown hair parted in the middle. Like everyone, I was hyper aware of “Ted” and have watched and read everything I could find about him over the years. 

(Shortly after Lake Sammamish I had an encounter with someone who my mother always believed was “Ted” [long story] and I admit the possibility. I imagine a lot of us had close calls one way or another. He seems to have been constantly on the prowl.)

I enjoyed the documentary and found that the ‘70s footage and styling really brought back the feel of that time. It made it all very real for me. I learned a couple of things. I knew he had been a “rising star” in the state GOP but was amazed at the news clippings etc in which he was identified. I hadn’t fully realized he had been that well-known and visible. I do seem to recall reading that he was driving the first car over the North Cascades Highway when it opened. I suppose he was driving Governor Evans.

I have long wondered one very trivial thing: where the hell did he get that folksy half-drawl, when he grew up in Tacoma? He was so affected and smug. Total asshole even without the evil component. 

Also, I never thought he was good looking. I don’t get that fuss at all. 

[psychoticstate]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 1:05 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

I was 21 and living in Seattle in 1974, and like many, many girls at that time, I had long brown hair parted in the middle. Like everyone, I was hyper aware of “Ted” and have watched and read everything I could find about him over the years. 

(Shortly after Lake Sammamish I had an encounter with someone who my mother always believed was “Ted” [long story] and I admit the possibility. I imagine a lot of us had close calls one way or another. He seems to have been constantly on the prowl.)

I enjoyed the documentary and found that the ‘70s footage and styling really brought back the feel of that time. It made it all very real for me. I learned a couple of things. I knew he had been a “rising star” in the state GOP but was amazed at the news clippings etc in which he was identified. I hadn’t fully realized he had been that well-known and visible. I do seem to recall reading that he was driving the first car over the North Cascades Highway when it opened. I suppose he was driving Governor Evans.

I have long wondered one very trivial thing: where the hell did he get that folksy half-drawl, when he grew up in Tacoma? He was so affected and smug. Total asshole even without the evil component. 

Also, I never thought he was good looking. I don’t get that fuss at all. 

Wow, Tabby, how scary to have had any type of encounter that was Ted-like, whether it was him or not.  Yikes.

I think Ted was considered attractive, at least relatively so, because he simply did not fit the mold of what we perceived a serial rapist and murderer to look like at that time.  Knowing the ghastly and despicable things he did, it's strange to even begin to suggest that he was remotely attractive but he did have that combo college/law student look (most of the time) and I guess during a period when longer hair, t-shirts and shorts were a fad, he was generally well put together.  He certainly was not a Manson, David Berkowitz or Ed Kemper, for example.  When Bundy wasn't in his predatory mode, he appeared non-threatening.  

Regarding his affectation and smugness, I always remember what Ann Rule said after the Mark Harmon miniseries.  The Bundy she knew, pre-Florida, was not affected and smug.  He was more insecure.  It was only after he had escaped from Colorado twice, went on a killing spree in Florida and gained national attention that he became smug.  I suppose he was smug not only because he became notorious but because he had gotten away with scores of murders (basically all his murders but the ones in Florida and I am firmly in the camp that his victim count is in the 3 digits.)  

[GreyBunny]

On 2/11/2019 at 10:52 AM, Cherrio said:

I am also surprised Ann Marie Burr was not included in the documentary, but not Rhonda Stapley.  Her story has no credibility imo.  A historian and one of the writers of a Bundy book I have talked to do not believe her.     It would be my guess that Berlinger dismissed her on advice of all the experts involved in the making of the doc.

I seriously doubt Burr is one of Ted's victims.  When he was a teenager he was committing theft and was a peeping Tom; it took him time to escalate to breaking and entering, then later abductions, rape, and finally murder.  I doubt he killed anyone until he was in his 20's, probably not until around 1973-ish. I don't think he'd kill a child when he was 14 then go back to peeping and then take 6-10 or more years to work back up to murder.  The police and Burr's family think there are better candidates (Robert Bruzas and Ralph Everett Larkee) for the culprit. During his last confessions Ted repeatedly denied killing her, he also denied killing Katherine Devine and he was right about that (recent DNA test results cleared him of her murder).

As for Stapley, I fully believe she's a hoaxer.  I think she's especially disgusting for saying that Carol DaRonch wasn't a "real" victim.

Edited March 23, 2019 by GreyBunny

[Cherrio]

7 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

I seriously doubt Burr is one of Ted's victims.

I agree with you 100%.   I just think its still part of the story as in worth mentioning the ongoing still unsolved case.

[psychoticstate]

On 3/23/2019 at 3:19 AM, GreyBunny said:

I seriously doubt Burr is one of Ted's victims.  When he was a teenager he was committing theft and was a peeping Tom; it took him time to escalate to breaking and entering, then later abductions, rape, and finally murder.  I doubt he killed anyone until he was in his 20's, probably not until around 1973-ish. I don't think he'd kill a child when he was 14 then go back to peeping and then take 6-10 or more years to work back up to murder.  The police and Burr's family think there are better candidates (Robert Bruzas and Ralph Everett Larkee) for the culprit. During his last confessions Ted repeatedly denied killing her, he also denied killing Katherine Devine and he was right about that (recent DNA test results cleared him of her murder).

As for Stapley, I fully believe she's a hoaxer.  I think she's especially disgusting for saying that Carol DaRonch wasn't a "real" victim.

I don't think Ted broke and entered into the Burr home.  If my memory is correct, Ann Marie liked to get up and play piano.  I think it's entirely possible that he was doing his usual peeping Tom routine and happened to see her.  It's been reported that she knew Ted and had a little girl crush on him.  I have no doubt that had he waved at her from the front window, she would have opened the front door and gone outside to him.  As I recall, the front door was found opened the morning Ann Marie disappeared.  

From what Ted's aunt Julia had stated (to awakening from a nap surrounded by kitchen knives and the young Ted standing by the bed, watching and smiling) and what Ted himself said, although likely in the third person, he had killing on his mind for a long time.  Certainly by the time he was 14.  I have no problem believing he could claim his first victim at that age, as well as being so panicked and freaked out by what he'd done, that he wouldn't do it again for a handful of years.  (I also firmly believe that Ted was responsible for the bludgeoning of two young ladies in the Queen Anne Hill section of Seattle in 1966, I think.  One woman died; one survived but with loss of memory.)  

I do agree that it took him years to work up to breaking and entering, as with the Queen Anne Hill attack mentioned above.  I've never believed that Linda Healy was his first victim.  Her abduction was most definitely that of a practiced offender. 

[SheTalksShit]

Um, I’ve watched a couple episodes. I’m struck by how carefree he tried to appear when interviewed by reporters on TV. Like wtf, can you be any more obvious it was you? An innocent person wouldn’t be laughing and joking with reporters while proclaiming their innocence. They’d be serious and emphatic that they DID NOT DO THIS. He’s not a good actor, at all. 

[SheTalksShit]

On 1/24/2019 at 3:07 PM, merylinkid said:

Watching this tonight.   I'm okay with it being the anniversary of his execution.    A good day to do it in my opinion.   If ever there was a candidate for keeping the death penalty, Ted Bundy is it.

Ted Bundy is a poster boy for the death penalty, he is what the death penalty is supposed to be designed for. One of the criteria’s is supposed to be “future dangerousness,” which he is your worse case scenario for because he was not only a future danger if freed, he was also an escape risk. And with his seemingly normal upbringing and otherwise normal life, it seems there’s very few, if any, mitigating circumstances. 

If I were on the jury, he’s one of the VERY few ppl I’d be comfortable voting for a death sentence. My personal opinion is the death penalty as it stands now is applied way too broadly/often, most cases are ones I wouldn’t personally feel comfortable voting for a death sentence, but Ted Bundy, I would, bc it seems like once he’s overcome with those dark urges, there’s no stopping him, he went to great lengths to satisfy them. It was almost like a compulsion of sorts, a demon that takes over that he had no control over. As a female, if I were a guard in a facility that housed him, I’d be very nervous. 

[merylinkid]

8 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

once he’s overcome with those dark urges, there’s no stopping him, he went to great lengths to satisfy them. It was almost like a compulsion of sorts, a demon that takes over that he had no control over.

I get what you are saying, but this excuses him too much.   By saying he had no control over it makes it seem like he had no choice but to kill people.    Ted Bundy was not overcome or helpless to control himself.   He killed because he liked the power it gave him over people.   The arrogant MF believed he was better and smarter than everyone else, so he pulled the ultimate power play, he took their lives.  He had a choice.   

[One Tough Cookie]

I haven't seen this docu in a long time, but I remember reading that Bundy actually had a human head in his fireplace.  i read that several times n various books

He wasn't attractive, he had what I call a feral look about him. Seedy even.  And no Ted, you were NEVER tie smartest person in the room