Will & Grace

[TVbitch]

I'm not surprised they lost a lot of the audience last season. That little short they did that started the revival hub bub was exactly what people wanted to see, just the gang hanging out and bantering. But once the show got going we got tons of guest stars, Jack with a fiance, Will and Grace in new relationships, unwelcome changes at Grace's workplace, and that very special Christmas episode. 

[Was-MArsenault]

I'm kind of not surprised by this news at all actually.

[Joe Hellandback]

So how would you end the series?

1. We glimpse the future, the ep opening with a pair of young girls in Handmaid's Tale outfits but these turn out to be Jack's granddaughters getting ready for Halloween. Will is a successful politician with Grace as his private secretary campaigning to become the first (openly) gay president of the United States, Jack becomes his Secretary for Gay Affairs (not understanding what the title meant when he accepted the post) and Karen is nominated for the Supreme Court but is bedevilled by wild (and true) accusations at her confirmation hearing. 

2. Will wakes up in bed beside Grace and tells her of the strange dream he had about being gay before being interrupted by their 3 kids who are cared for by their acerbic live in Hispanic nanny Karenna. Will goes out to get the paper and meets his whacky new neighbour Jack over the picket fence. They share a look... 

3. A mad scientist releases the 'Hetro-bomb', turning all gay people straight. Will hooks up with Grace and Jack becomes the womaniser to end all womanisers with Beverly Lester the new Hugh Hefner and his business associate as his wingmen. Karen seeks to restore the natural order but will Grace let her? In the end Will is offered the antidote but decides the person he loves is more important than his orientation and refuses it. 

4. Whilst on a road trip the gang get into a head on collision with Donald Trump's limo and are killed. At their funeral every single other character from the show traipses past remembering their times together. In the final scene Stan (John Goodman) scatters their ashes over the New York they love so well. 

5. We turn back time and discover it was the reboot that was Karen's drink/drug addled fantasy and Will is still with Vince and Grace with Leo.   

Edited July 27, 2019 by Joe Hellandback

[scrb]

So the showrunner or the cast probably found more lucrative gigs elsewhere?

Or they demanded a certain amount and NBC wasn't willing to pony up?

[legaleagle53]

On 7/27/2019 at 3:21 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

So how would you end the series?

1. We glimpse the future, the ep opening with a pair of young girls in Handmaid's Tale outfits but these turn out to be Jack's granddaughters getting ready for Halloween. Will is a successful politician with Grace as his private secretary campaigning to become the first (openly) gay president of the United States, Jack becomes his Secretary for Gay Affairs (not understanding what the title meant when he accepted the post) and Karen is nominated for the Supreme Court but is bedevilled by wild (and true) accusations at her confirmation hearing. 

2. Will wakes up in bed beside Grace and tells her of the strange dream he had about being gay before being interrupted by their 3 kids who are cared for by their acerbic live in Hispanic nanny Karenna. Will goes out to get the paper and meets his whacky new neighbour Jack over the picket fence. They share a look... 

3. A mad scientist releases the 'Hetro-bomb', turning all gay people straight. Will hooks up with Grace and Jack becomes the womaniser to end all womanisers with Beverly Lester the new Hugh Hefner and his business associate as his wingmen. Karen seeks to restore the natural order but will Grace let her? In the end Will is offered the antidote but decides the person he loves is more important than his orientation and refuses it. 

4. Whilst on a road trip the gang get into a head on collision with Donald Trump's limo and are killed. At their funeral every single other character from the show traipses past remembering their times together. In the final scene Stan (John Goodman) scatters their ashes over the New York they love so well. 

5. We turn back time and discover it was the reboot that was Karen's drink/drug addled fantasy and Will is still with Vince and Grace with Leo.   

I vote for No. 5. No. 1 would be plausible right up until appointing Karen to the Supreme Court. She's not a lawyer and doesn't have the first clue about the law or the way our government functions. I can't see Will appointing her to that post for any reason.

Options 2, 3, and 4 are homophobic as hell, so HARD PASS.

No. 5 is the preferred ending for me, therefore, because it puts the show back the way it was before this disastrous reboot that I felt was a slap in the face to those of us who actually WANTED to see some growth, maturity, and evolution from Will, Grace, Jack, and Karen after 20 years.

[Joe Hellandback]

11 hours ago, scrb said:

So the showrunner or the cast probably found more lucrative gigs elsewhere?

Or they demanded a certain amount and NBC wasn't willing to pony up?

I think the whole reboot has been lacklustre and has run its' course (some would say overstayed its' welcome?). It was brought back as a reaction to the Trump years (remember Will saying he wouldn't last a year?) but what made it special was gone, it was off its' time and that time was over. Time to lay it to rest.  

[Joe Hellandback]

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I vote for No. 5. No. 1 would be plausible right up until appointing Karen to the Supreme Court. She's not a lawyer and doesn't have the first clue about the law or the way our government functions. I can't see Will appointing her to that post for any reason.

Options 2, 3, and 4 are homophobic as hell, so HARD PASS.

No. 5 is the preferred ending for me, therefore, because it puts the show back the way it was before this disastrous reboot that I felt was a slap in the face to those of us who actually WANTED to see some growth, maturity, and evolution from Will, Grace, Jack, and Karen after 20 years.

You may dislike them but they're hardly homophobic. 

[Bill1978]

This news saddens me, but I'm not gonna start a petition to demand everyone reverse their decision. I've enjoyed the return but I admit that it was very old school. Ie a sitcome filmed in front of an audience. I do miss those days. Iknow its probably more a reflection on me but I often struggle to find modern comedies (without laughing) highly amusing. I don't know why. Maybe its just my brain trained to think that no laughing on a tv show's track means it is a drama. The upside to the cancellation is it's looking more and more like I have no reason to keep my subscription service to the streaming site it airs on in Australia

[Snow Apple]

8 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I think the whole reboot has been lacklustre and has run its' course (some would say overstayed its' welcome?). It was brought back as a reaction to the Trump years (remember Will saying he wouldn't last a year?) but what made it special was gone, it was off its' time and that time was over. Time to lay it to rest.  

I have to agree. The cancellation is about money but not in the actor's side. I don't think the ratings were what they expected. And ratings mean money. This just wasn't Will and Grace. It's more like a fanfiction version. There were good moments like Jack's grandson and Rosario's funeral. I also love Minnie Driver and Matt Bomer.

But I don't think anyone expected or liked them getting rid of the Vince, Leo, Ben, and Lila storyline from the original. Instead of continuing the story of their how their lives are in middle age with families, they're acting and thinking like they're still in their 20's or 30's.

[scrb]

I enjoyed it.  I thought the ensemble playing off each other was as tight as they ever were.

Thing is, I don't think the cast has done as anything as good as this show and will have a hard time getting recognized for other projects.

And let's face it, they're not young any more so they may not have many more chances to be in leading roles.

Instead they may get supporting roles in well-regarded sitcoms starring twenty-something stars who can't be 1/10th the comic actors of the fab four.

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know - Eric McCormack had Travelers and Perception (among others), Debra Messing had Smash and The Mysteries of Laura, Sean Hayes had lots of success behind the scenes (a variety of things from Hot In Cleveland to Grimm to Hollywood Game Night).  Megan Mullally is the only one I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head, but IMDB shows steady work including Bob's Burgers and 30 Rock.

I will miss the show, too.  I liked the revival (or whatever they were calling it).  I'd keep watching.  Glad we're getting one more season, at least, though.

[readster]

7 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I have to agree. The cancellation is about money but not in the actor's side. I don't think the ratings were what they expected. And ratings mean money. This just wasn't Will and Grace. It's more like a fanfiction version. There were good moments like Jack's grandson and Rosario's funeral. I also love Minnie Driver and Matt Bomer.

But I don't think anyone expected or liked them getting rid of the Vince, Leo, Ben, and Lila storyline from the original. Instead of continuing the story of their how their lives are in middle age with families, they're acting and thinking like they're still in their 20's or 30's.

Yeah, I couldn't get into it, because it felt like it was them trying to recapture the old series when times have changed. The actors who have all aged very well, are still acting like they did back then. No one really "grew up" and the writers were acting more like fans, hence the "fanfiction" feel of the show. I know people brought up Friends or Cheers doing a reboot and almost everyone went: "No, sorry that story is over and everyone moved on and really, where would they go at this point?" Reboots and revivals like Fuller House worked because it was a continuing of a story. You get so-so like with Roseanne/Connors revivals because the characters are there. However, they go on like nothing really changed. They never learn anything or the actors are projecting their own views on the characters that made them a household name. Instead of where the characters came from.

  Even the upcoming Star Trek: Picard, it's where the characters ended up and more story still there. Will and Grace, they dumped all the good the series built up and kept acting like it was still the early 2000s instead of realizing much has changed and yet much has been hit with set backs. THAT would have been interesting to see. Not still acting like everyone is still happy that Y2K never happened.

Edited July 29, 2019 by readster
spelling errors.

[TVbitch]

I will hate to see these great characters go, and they are all good actors. It's hard to do a revival, and I wish they could have threaded that needle.

Probably nobody wants to see them in grown up relationships dealing with children and finances and other mid-life stuff. But to have them act like absolutely nothing has changed isn't relatable or sustainable. I would have been entertained just to see them getting together to gripe about their middle-aged lives, and have some shennanigans once in while. 

Maybe the four actors, who seem very close and play off each other so well, can just create a new show for themselves. 

[Annber03]

11 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I've enjoyed the return but I admit that it was very old school. Ie a sitcome filmed in front of an audience. I do miss those days. Iknow its probably more a reflection on me but I often struggle to find modern comedies (without laughing) highly amusing. I don't know why. Maybe its just my brain trained to think that no laughing on a tv show's track means it is a drama.

Given how much comedy and drama seem to blend nowadays, I can see where it'd be hard to really make that distinction sometimes.

I like the old-school "filmed in front of an audience" sitcom style, too. I've never had the issue with them that many have-I've never seen the audience being there as "being told when to laugh" (I mean, really, how often is somebody going to tell if I'm laughing along with an audience because I genuinely, like them, thought the scene/line was funny, or if I'm laughing because I'm "supposed to"?). I've always seen it more as an opportunity to share a laugh with other people. It makes for a good bonding experience/connection. And many actors have talked about how fun and energizing it can be to feed off the audience's reactions as well. 

There are sitcoms from recent years that don't have live audiences that I love, too, don't get me wrong. But yeah, I do feel like, live audience or not, some comedies nowadays tend to go more for the light "Oh, that was amusing" type of humor rather than the full out belly laughs. I think there's room for both types of comedies in the world, myself, but it does seem the old-school style isn't as common anymore. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Annber03

[readster]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

There are sitcoms from recent years that don't have live audiences that I love, too, don't get me wrong. But yeah, I do feel like, live audience or not, some comedies nowadays tend to go more for the light "Oh, that was amusing" type of humor rather than the full out belly laughs. I think there's room for both types of comedies in the world, myself, but it does seem the old-school style isn't as common anymore. 

How true, Last Man Standing did that the first few seasons and it worked well. Now, they jsut go for "getting a cheap laugh" and it just doesn't work. Fuller House still does a life audience and you can tell in the show it works very well. Ted Danson said it best on Cheers: "There is nothing like a real audience, because it just works so well when a joke works well and you can keep feeding it." 

[festivus]

You know, I think it would be funny if Karen again said what a weird dream in the last episode and everything was back to the way it was when the show ended the first time. But honestly I don't care how they end it as long as they don't kill a beloved character like all my other favorite shows have been doing. I've had my damn fill of that for a good long while.

[suomi]

Quote

The women, who are rumored to be feuding, no longer follow each other on Instagram, fans noticed. Both women still follow their co-stars Sean Hayes and Eric McCormack.

The unfollowing comes after Megan deleted an Instagram story about feeling "best" after losing her "attachment to somebody."

"One of the best feelings is finally losing your attachment to somebody who isn't good for you!," she posted, many wondering if it was dig at Debra. In a separate cryptic post, Megan said, "Don't ask people for directions if they've never been where you're going!"

There have been rumors that Debra and Megan's apparent fall out is the reason the rebooted sitcom is ending after its 11th season.

Fans perceived that the women were on the outs several weeks ago when Debra posted a photo of the cast but didn't tag Megan in it (other cast and crew were tagged). Now, the unfollowing has taken the feud speculation to another level.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/will-and-grace-costars-unfollow-each-other-amid-rumors-of-a-feud/ar-AAFO255

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/29/2019 at 10:48 AM, aquarian1 said:

I don't know - Eric McCormack had Travelers and Perception (among others), Debra Messing had Smash and The Mysteries of Laura, Sean Hayes had lots of success behind the scenes (a variety of things from Hot In Cleveland to Grimm to Hollywood Game Night).  Megan Mullally is the only one I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head, but IMDB shows steady work including Bob's Burgers and 30 Rock.

Multiple guest spots on Happy Endings and Parks and Recreation.  I loved Karen Walker, but there was a while where I felt like I couldn't even escape from Megan.  That original Karen Walker stint will never be replaced or outdone.  Not that that's a terrible thing.

I loved the sitcom "Sean Saves the World".  I thought it was adorable and basically I love anything Sean does.  He never loses my goodwill or love.  Unfortunately, it was cancelled after 1 season.  

On 7/29/2019 at 10:48 AM, aquarian1 said:

 Hot In Cleveland

I only just recently watched all of this.  I was surprised at how much I really enjoyed it.  I didn't even like Jane Leeves on "Frasier" but I love her here.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[sum]

I assumed given the lukewarm ratings since the first return season they thought the writing was on the wall and made the decision before the inevitable one from the power that be coming. 

What the ...? Most likely I'm burying my head in the sand but I refuse to believe the feud rumor and all the speculation about their Instagram posts/stories/not tagging is just fans reading too much into them, because it'd be really really sad if that's how the show ends after all these years and we're not talking about actors in their 20s/30s. 

[Harvey]

Did you guys hear about the exciting upcoming plot elements for the final season?

Spoiler

Will & McCoy get married and have a baby through a surrogate played by Demi Lovato. I am so happy Will is getting his happy ending, I think it will be beautiful and emotional.

[KWalkerInc]

Will & Grace is going to have its season premiere next Thursday, October 24 at 9:30 PM after Sunnyside was pulled. 

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/nbc-replacing-sunnsyide-will-grace-final-season-1203372380/

[Harvey]

I could not have received a better set of news today. So happy and can't wait. The season trailer is...interesting.

[Bill1978]

My only issue is that if they want Grace to have a child, why did they retcon the final season of the original run and remove the children. I was happy to hand wave it all away but now they are just going to remind me that those storylines already existed. But other than that I cannot wait to watch this season. A very welcomed surprise.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm thinking she's not pregnant but actually starting menopause. 

[Harvey]

17 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

My only issue is that if they want Grace to have a child, why did they retcon the final season of the original run and remove the children. I was happy to hand wave it all away but now they are just going to remind me that those storylines already existed. But other than that I cannot wait to watch this season. A very welcomed surprise.

I think the big change is in the original ending they got into a huge fight and didn't talk for 18 years. If they both get kids now then they will raise them while remaining very close friends for sure.

[FormerMod-a1]

We got our full forum back! 

(so this thread is now locked).