The Not So Merry...Supporting Cast

[strikera0]

And what of all the non-Olicity shippers who dislike Ray? What's their excuse? And finally, if Olicity shippers are programmed to hate anyone who dares come between our couple, why did so many of us like Sarah? Why would so many of us be cool with a Barry/Felicity pairing.

 

I am aware that what I am about to say isn't going to be welcomed here, but many Olicity shippers did throw mud at Sara while she was with Oliver. The Sara Lance tag at tumblr was full of hate and so were facebook and twitter. Same goes for various Arrow forums, comment sections and blogs. TWOP, GATV forums and Reddit were still some of the more Sara-friendly places to be at while the Sara/Oliver storyline was going on and maybe people who didn't frequent outside of those places aren't all that aware of the Sara (and CL) hate that was going on at the time. As for Barry, I think he didn't catch much flag because he was a very likable presence on the show and only appeared for 2 episodes, so he didn't pose any long-term threat to the Olicity ship.

Edited April 6, 2015 by strikera0

[SonofaBiscuit]

I am aware that what I am about to say isn't going to be welcomed here, but many Olicity shippers did throw mud at Sara while she was with Oliver. The Sara Lance tag at tumblr was full of hate and so were facebook and twitter. 

 

This is why I was initially convinced that they wouldn't go the romance route with Ray and Felicity.  I remember commenting that it didn't work out so well for Sara when they put her with Oliver...people turned against her pretty quickly.  It didn't bother me too much because I just figured this was the EPs way of fulfilling the comic canon that has BC/GA together, but I was supremely pissed off by how much screen time Sara was getting towards the end of the season.  And it pisses me off even more now, knowing that it was all for nothing.  

[Sakura12]

I am aware that what I am about to say isn't going to be welcomed here, but many Olicity shippers did throw mud at Sara while she was with Oliver. The Sara Lance tag at tumblr was full of hate and so were facebook and twitter. Same goes for various Arrow forums, comment sections and blogs. TWOP, GATV forums and Reddit were still some of the more Sara-friendly places to be at while the Sara/Oliver storyline was going on and maybe people who didn't frequent outside of those places aren't all that aware of the Sara (and CL) hate that was going on at the time. As for Barry, I think he didn't catch much flag because he was a very likable presence on the show and only appeared for 2 episodes, so he didn't pose any long-term threat to the Olicity ship.

 

As a Sara fan I had to stop going on my tumblr with all the hate she got after she hooked up with Oliver. I loved that Sara got more screentime because I loved seeing SA and CL filming fight scenes together. I hate that it was all for nothing and that Laurel is just getting handed everything of Sara's without earning it. 

[Carrie Ann]

I am aware that what I am about to say isn't going to be welcomed here, but many Olicity shippers did throw mud at Sara while she was with Oliver. The Sara Lance tag at tumblr was full of hate and so were facebook and twitter. Same goes for various Arrow forums, comment sections and blogs. TWOP, GATV forums and Reddit were still some of the more Sara-friendly places to be at while the Sara/Oliver storyline was going on and maybe people who didn't frequent outside of those places aren't all that aware of the Sara (and CL) hate that was going on at the time. As for Barry, I think he didn't catch much flag because he was a very likable presence on the show and only appeared for 2 episodes, so he didn't pose any long-term threat to the Olicity ship.

 

I agree that there was plenty of Sara hate last season. I didn't see much Barry hate at all, and I think that the 2-episode situation was a huge reason for that. (Also, the natural charm of GG and BA as a character.)

 

But I don't think either of those facts negates what @KenyaJ is saying. If I'm reading her right, the argument is that Ray is more widely disliked than other ship-block characters were, both within the shipper fandom and outside of it. And MG reducing it to the point that the only people who dislike Ray are shippers who are mad is inaccurate and kinda willfully ignorant. There were a lot of vocal fans who were unhappy with the O/S development and aimed that anger at Sara rather than (or in addition to) Oliver, but I'm not sure that number ever even reached majority status, let alone near-universality. And of course there will be shippers who dislike ANYTHING that blocks their favorite thing about the show, but that could be true of any fan who focuses on one aspect of a show, I just don't believe it's the case most of the time.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Honestly, it seemed like people were willing to give Ray a chance at the start, but his intro was so problematic, and then the writers just kept piling on all of these questionable behaviors which did the character no favors.  I'd probably overlook a ton of crap if Ray was played by a charming, charismatic actor, but he's not.  

 

The SA/CL fight scenes were pretty awesome.  The stunts this season don't even compare to the stuff we saw last season, if you ask me, and I think part of that boils down to the fact that the show eliminated all of the actors who were able to do even a fraction of their own stunts.  This season is a mess with being able to clearly see the stunt double's faces in scenes.  These guys stumble into the most wonderful things and then just toss them all away.  It's mind-boggling.   

[kismet]

There is a part of the shipper world that spews hatred & vitriol, and frankly I don't understand why people need to put that much hate out in the world. I think its also sad that they then tag the actors. Its not necessarily their fault, they are working within the confines of a script its just sad.

I am personally someone who prefers o/f. But I was willing to give Ray a shot, his writing was just problematic & then valid points were dismissed by show runners. I think had they at least acknowledged some of the valid concerns it would have been better. Imo the romance route was a bad choice for Ray because it told me very little about him & then the little snippets that came thru were not very favorable.

Honestly another major strike against his character from a writing standpoint is they made felicity act differently around him than she usually does on Arrow. So when she became less like who she is, I think people responded negatively to that.

Romance is double edge sword. It brings out the best & the worst in people. But on a show that eats up screentime better served to tell the story & not the plot. I think the writers believe that plot & story are interchangeable but I hope when they look back at this season they realize they are not. Rays arc was filled with plot & little story, that's what hurt him.

[CabotCove]

But I don't think either of those facts negates what @KenyaJ is saying. If I'm reading her right, the argument is that Ray is more widely disliked than other ship-block characters were, both within the shipper fandom and outside of it. And MG reducing it to the point that the only people who dislike Ray are shippers who are mad is inaccurate and kinda willfully ignorant. There were a lot of vocal fans who were unhappy with the O/S development and aimed that anger at Sara rather than (or in addition to) Oliver, but I'm not sure that number ever even reached majority status, let alone near-universality. And of course there will be shippers who dislike ANYTHING that blocks their favorite thing about the show, but that could be true of any fan who focuses on one aspect of a show, I just don't believe it's the case most of the time.

 

 

They are probably just fed up to bother discerning the massive biased vitrol from the legit critisism of the character. Cant say I blame them, they are trying to run a business here, behind these characters, are real life people they depend on to do the work, their friends, their colleagues. The crew has to hear too much malicious things said of their collegues/friends for daring to play romantic rival  characters and cant be easy for the actors to work under such strenuous conditions.  Laurel/Katie, Sara/Caity, Barry/Grant, Ray/Brandon, it quite a "coincidental" trail alright, I would think it starts to grate after a while and interfere with business/production. There  is harmlessly hating a  character and there is trying to get actors fired and kicked off the show. Messing up with real people's livelihoods for a fictional ship. 

 

Yeah the actors/characters experience non shipper fuelled hate too, but  shipper hate just seems much more deafening, repetitive and intense. Non ship fueled hate is rarely that personal and persistent, its likely there would be a ship motive. Olicity is not a small fandom, its massive with makes the biased hate be on a massive scale too. Which likely makes it hard for the  to separate the wheat from the chaft, when it comes to fan critisism/viewpoints. I  would imagine it would be like trying to pick a needle in the haystack. 

 

 It is a loss for the show, the character/s and fans with legit critisism (including some Olicity fans), when they cant be heard amidst that noise. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Conell

[dtissagirl]

Oh, cry me a river. The idea that people are blinded by their favoritism of a couple is just another way of labeling 'shippers as lesser fans, which reeks of wanting to silence the folks who favor romantic storylines over other kinds of stories, which, hello -- are usually women. Specially young women. And it's okay to label them as gratuitously hateful because all they do is screed irrationally, right? Yeah, and that's not biased at all. /sarcasm font

It is actually possible to love a fictional couple and have a rational functioning brain and be fully able to criticize a problematic character all at the same time.

And you know what? This idea that screaming young women on the internets have this massive power over entertainment properties owned by billionaire conglomerates... that they're jeopardizing jobs and disrupting production? Are you kidding me? No, seriously, what? If that were true, then why aren't the billionaire conglomerates actively catering to young women first and foremost? Why is it that Hollywood is still massively catering to the 18-49 white male demo, the exact same demo that thinks 'shippers are irrational silly womyn who should shut the fuck up already?

Yeah, no. Let the screaming fangirls let out their hate all they want. And their love. And everything else they want to feel about media properties that are not even made with them in mind, but they care enough to create a community and endless transformative fan works around it. Let them scream. It's the only single way they'll be heard.

Edited April 9, 2015 by dancingnancy

[calliope1975]

Bravo, dancingnancy, I so agree. When shows are getting canceled because they appeal to the young teen woman demographic (Tower Prep) and when genre companies (DC and Marvel) are still actively refusing to market to women with available merch, I'm not going to feel bad if shippers scream loud and long on the Internet. The CW has said point blank that they're aiming for the 18 - 35 male demo. They just happen to be aiming for that demo with shows that are flat out soap operas. 

 

Plus it's awfully convenient to blame shippers for the criticism of a character(s) instead of examining if those criticisms are valid, and then turn right around and use those shippers for their support and cold hard cash when it suits them. 

[Chaser]

That's why Tower Prep was canceled?! I loved that show; it was so much fun.

 

I think you can add Young Justice to that list too. Ugh

[Carrie Ann]

I think the rest of the comment is derailing and has nothing to do with my point or KenyaJ's original points, which I think were pretty clearly stated, so I'm not going to continue that conversation, but:

 

It is a loss for the show, the character/s and fans with legit critisism, when they cant be heard amidst that noise. 

 

Who are the fans with legit criticism? How does one qualify as one of those fans? Are you allowed to have a particular favorite character? Or a particular favorite aspect of the show at all, like the stunts or the fight scenes or the comic book elements? Or are you simply not allowed to like a romantic pairing? 

 

I think there are many types of fandom that are deemed acceptable, and lenses through which fans are allowed to critique and evaluate a show. But once that lens even INCLUDES shipping, it is immediately dismissed, and all further opinions invalidated. Which...was the original point here. That MG dismisses negative opinions about Ray by saying it's all angry Olicity shippers, and therefore those opinions are not "legit." And neither is true.

[statsgirl]

The bizarre thing is that according to marketing research, except for electronics, the young male demo doesn't do most of the buying.  Even with cars, women have more say in buying the family car than men, and with most products, it's women who do the buying.

 

It's true that shippers are vocal.  But you only need to read Robert Dougherty at TMZ, Matt Roush at TV Guide, Alan Sepinwall and Daniel Feinburg at Hitflix, and Ryan & Ryan as well as other critics to see that the criticism of Ray is not limited to his role as a ship impediment.

 

 

But once that lens even INCLUDES shipping, it is immediately dismissed, and all further opinions invalidated. Which...was the original point here. That MG dismisses negative opinions about Ray by saying it's all angry Olicity shippers, and therefore those opinions are not "legit." And neither is true.

Ironically, they put both Barry and Ray into relationships with Felicity to get the audience to like the new characters i.e. they wanted to use shippers to establish their new characters.  It worked with Barry, it didn't with Ray, and the EPs need to look at what worked, what didn't, and why.

Edited April 9, 2015 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

All you people with your "facts" and "well-considered arguments" and such are making my poor lady head hurt.  Don't you know all I can focus on is pretty ladies with pretty gents, and BABIES!!!

[tennisgurl]

Dancingnancy, very well said! I am sick of shippers being code for screeching, irrational fangirls. I`m sick of writers and creators dismissing legit criticism as "just irrational shippers and haters". There is NOTHING wrong with being a shipper! Just because you ship, that does NOT mean that everything you say is about shipping! These are your FANS your talking about! Your fans, who watch your show, buy your merchandise, talk about your show on social media, and create a whole vibrant, creative world all around the characters you created. And you just treat them like crap? Bullshit! Creators and writers need to remember that, you need to treat your fans with some respect. 

 

I get that you cant create a show totally tailored to fans, shipper or no. You cant let Twitter run your whole show. But if you aren't writing for your fans, on some level, who are you writing for? 

Edited April 9, 2015 by tennisgurl

[kismet]

Its the vitriol and hate that is a shame. I think people have made valid criticisms of characters that people dismiss easily because they see it as shipping. That is a shame, because it means that people are not being open to other's opinions. I may not agree with every fan's perspective, but its interesting to hear how others view the show. That being said the way some people on social media or comment sections talk is down right mean and cruel at times. I can understand people (fans, critics, TPTB) becoming upset with that part of it. When you read some of it - its just distasteful, hateful and sometimes scary. I can understand the argument that this creates a lot of noise, that then can sometimes overshadow the valid points of criticisms. I wish that hate did not exist in our world, and that wish goes far beyond just a TV show.

 

What I think has been most disappointing is that the EPs & TPTB have been blatantly publicly dismissing a good portion of valid, well written criticisms from fans & critics. I feel that EPs & TPTB should be held to a higher standard in how they handle public criticisms. They are not individual fans venting, they are professional companies & representatives of the show. They should not be so quick to just chuck away fan responses, especially when they are purposely engaging it like MG. They should be making the effort to weed through the bad stuff to get to the well-presented points. Another portion of this argument is that where there is smoke there is fire. If there is a multitude of complaints from multiple sources than it is likely more than just a few overly obsessive shippers (which be the way is insulting if that is how they view shippers, that they can't see beyond their own obsessions).

 

Being a shipper or having more romantic notions should not be held against the person if they are presenting valid evidence of poorly written characterizations or plots. Shippers are part of the fanbase. Just like fanboys are part of the fanbase. If shippers are important enough to pander to so viewership/interest increases, as well as unashamedly requested to increase comic sales, than they should be important enough to listen to when they have concerns. It does feel like they want it both ways. They want shippers meek & quiet to just go along with their great plans, but then they want to use the group to be vocal & robust when they need a boost. At times, it does not feel like a balanced and healthy relationship at times, but that's a whole other problem they need to work on. 

[CabotCove]

Oh, cry me a river. The idea that people are blinded by their favoritism of a couple is just another way of labeling 'shippers as lesser fans, which reeks of wanting to silence the folks who favor romantic storylines over other kinds of stories, which, hello -- are usually women. Specially young women. And it's okay to label them as gratuitously hateful because all they do is screed irrationally, right? Yeah, and that's not biased at all. /sarcasm font

It is actually possible to love a fictional couple and have a rational functioning brain and be fully able to criticize a problematic character all at the same time.

For what it worth  #NotallOlicityfans, #NotallShippers, I didnt imply or see anyone else implying a whole group of different people were all doing that. Im a shipper female myself so its not like I frown upon shipping, shippers, females shippers or not like I dont know what its like to be grouped with  extreme rabid fandom behavior. I have been in comics/movie fandoms or even in shipping fandoms, I have seen that some fanboys like some fangirls can be just as bad in behaving or worse. If it doesnt describe YOU (generally speaking) then there isnt a reason to take what is said of some people's behaviour personally and offensively, is there?. In shipping fandoms female fans tend to be more, it doesnt mean the bad behavior should be excused and sexism used as a crutch.

 

And just so we are clear, Im NOT saying there isnt any legit sexist behaviour against female fans/shippers. MG's comment could be taken as that due its ENTIRE dismal. At the same time some people do take advantage of their sex to excuse behaving badly. A huge disservice to the actual legit fight against sexism going on.

 

Who are the fans with legit criticism? How does one qualify as one of those fans?

 

By not having shipper bias? and actually having accurate and non double standards reasons for hating/criticizing a character. Also I dont think a legit criticism  should be so malicious and overly repetitive IMO. Thats just a bit of what comes to mind right now and others may have a different defination.

 

And you know what? This idea that screaming young women on the internets have this massive power over entertainment properties owned by billionaire conglomerates... that they're jeopardizing jobs and disrupting production? Are you kidding me? 

 

 I  sure as hell cant see why young or older women wouldnt have that influence, I have seen it, for e.g One Directioners anyone?. Sexism still exists yes but its not like there isnt some victories, women are the largest consumers of some hollywood franchises, not everyone is going to be stupid enough to dismiss their big or part of customer base. Money can be a great equaliser, and some exes genuinely care for all their fans input and dont adhere to industry "practices". And yeah it can be a great experience and good for business to listen to fans, especially those who were traditionally ignored, but its also can have its dark side. Whether male or female fans, depending on the quality/type of feedback and how a particular creative team chooses to handle it.

 

Which...was the original point here. That MG dismisses negative opinions about Ray by saying it's all angry Olicity shippers, and therefore those opinions are not "legit." And neither is true.

 

OK to me he is partially wrong in saying that, I believe #notallshippers but on another extreme I have seen what he has to say  being completely  ignored and dismissed. When some Olicity fans truly act that way,why is the O fandom for the most part, shielding those people again. It doesn't do the fandom's image any good. Clearly there isnt going to be any good communication and dialogue from either side, with such generalizations from both sides. Its a loss on both sides.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Conell

[nksarmi]

Bravo, dancingnancy, I so agree. When shows are getting canceled because they appeal to the young teen woman demographic (Tower Prep) and when genre companies (DC and Marvel) are still actively refusing to market to women with available merch, I'm not going to feel bad if shippers scream loud and long on the Internet. The CW has said point blank that they're aiming for the 18 - 35 male demo. They just happen to be aiming for that demo with shows that are flat out soap operas. 

 

Plus it's awfully convenient to blame shippers for the criticism of a character(s) instead of examining if those criticisms are valid, and then turn right around and use those shippers for their support and cold hard cash when it suits them. 

Hmm that's odd - most televisions and advertising is aimed at men AND women in that 18-35 demographics because of the buying power.  I can't believe CW would leave women out of that equation.  And frankly, if you look at their line up - it sure doesn't seem like they are leaving women out.

 

And for what it's worth - I have said before and I will say again - I understand MG's comments.  If you look around the whole Internet - particularly sites like Facebook - there does seem to be some hate that is irrational and over-the-top insulting to Ray and it does appear to coincide with the 'ship.  And you know how you can tell it's really irrational and insane?  When people call Felicity a whore for being with Ray and not staying loyal to Oliver.

 

If I was an EP and saw stuff like that, I might be a bit dismissive and feel that people would enjoy Ray more on the spin-off when he isn't saddled with the negative factor of being the third leg of an unpopular triangle too.  It's not like he has to address the issue of how to keep Ray on the show against rising hatred toward his character. MG already knows that Felicity and Ray are going to break up (not a spoiler - just an assumption based on the last episode), he already knows that Ray and Oliver will end up liking each other (again not a spoiler, just typical writing - two guys square off/compete, one realizes how much the other loves the girl in question or how the other really is a good guy and steps out of the way, duo ends as friends....), and he knows Ray is going to leave the show and BR is a likable enough actor to win over the audience when he is allowed to be funny, cute, and sweet.

 

I have ZERO problem believing that Ray is going to work as a goofy, lovable, high-tech, hero nerd on the spin-off.  I also would bet money that they have done a little experimenting on how some of these actors play off each other and I suspect it's going to be a lot of fun.  We've already several of the characters enough to know their personalities are going to bounce off each other in humorous ways.  I don't think MG is trying to be dismissive of people's concerns - it's more like "yea, yea, we get it, but that's not going to be a problem on the spin-off so just chill out already."

Edited April 9, 2015 by nksarmi

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm that's odd - most televisions and advertising is aimed at men AND women in that 18-35 demographics because of the buying power.  I can't believe CW would leave women out of that equation.  And frankly, if you look at their line up - it sure doesn't seem like they are leaving women out.

The CW has openly stated that they're courting the male 18-34 demo.

[NumberCruncher]

The CW has openly stated that they're courting the male 18-34 demo.

Yep. Not only that but they went out of their way to stress that during the whole "Heroes and Villains" snafu a few months back. We were subjected to an endless barrage of press articles touting how much the CW covets the male demo. It left a bad taste in my mouth because who really gives a shit if the CW skews female? They are not "less than" the male audience.

[Velocity23]

Its funny because they keep ordering those female skewing shows. Only Flash and Arrow are the really male skewing shows. And SPN being kind of a hybrid.

[tv echo]

MG comments about Ray and Sara...

donna--lynn asked:
What do you like about the character Ray Palmer aka A.T.O.M.?

I love his brilliance and sense of humor.

jesuistrescoolxxx asked:
Hi Marc! I just want to say I love the show and everyone that works for it. In one particular episode, Sara said "no woman should ever suffer at the hands of men", was there some significance about this? Or am I overthinking it?

We positioned Sara to be a defender of women.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited April 10, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

We positioned Sara to be a defender of women.

 

Like the Black Canary. 

[MostlyC]

Hey folks,

 

We're veering very close to being off-topic.

 

This thread is about the supporting cast members, not how we feel about relationships or fangirls/boys.

 

There's a bitterness topic, or a relationship topic that is more appropriate for some posts here.  If it keeps on, I'll have to move posts- and moving posts makes everyone (including me) cranky. 

[CabotCove]

Hmm that's odd - most televisions and advertising is aimed at men AND women in that 18-35 demographics because of the buying power.  I can't believe CW would leave women out of that equation.  And frankly, if you look at their line up - it sure doesn't seem like they are leaving women out.

 

ITA

 

If I was an EP and saw stuff like that, I might be a bit dismissive and feel that people would enjoy Ray more on the spin-off when he isn't saddled with the negative factor of being the third leg of an unpopular triangle too.  It's not like he has to address the issue of how to keep Ray on the show against rising hatred toward his character.

 

Yeah I think Ray will likely flourish in his own show and actually be allowed to do so. It seems to have worked for Barry in his own turf.

[Sunshine]

Curious...anyone have any idea how old Ray Palmer is supposed to be?  (I know how old BR is. Just wondering about RP in show.)

 

 I don't care for BR as an actor but I really don't understand Ray Palmer's characterization.  I know he is supposed to be a male version of Felicity but how is that supposed to work?  If they had made him an absent minded scientist I probably wouldn't have such a hard time reconciling who he is.  They didn't though.  They set him up as a billionaire businessman.  I understand that he can still be a scientist but how can he be a successful businessman if he is so socially inept? Even if he has qualified people working for him he still has to deal with people.  He's smart enough to attempt to rebrand Starling City but so socially inept that he doesn't know decorum around people?  Was he raised by wolves?  Even Oliver for all his douche behavior seemed to know how to act in certain situations.  

Edited April 11, 2015 by Sunshine

[CabotCove]

Curious...anyone have any idea how old Ray Palmer is supposed to be?  (I know how old BR is. Just wondering about RP in show.)

 

Good question, beats me. They usually release those "portrait cards" with character profiles and ages on it, maybe they will by end of season?.

 

 

They set him up as a billionaire businessman.  I understand that he can still be a scientist but how can he be a successful businessman if he is so socially inept?

 

He doesn't strike me as being socially inept, he seems to love talking and I would say he has quite the "gift of the gab"... so that's good for business.  I think due to high intelligence he can be seen as socially weird by other people but I dont think it always correlates with being unable to communicate effectively or be social. Same for other highly intelligence people like Felicity or in real life, Imo. Yeah him and Felicity don't seem to always be up to date with some social norms but I don't think they are on the  extremes of social ineptiness scale, like The Big Bang Theory bad. 

 

To me Ray, Felicity, The Flash team or STEM people in general, just seem to have a different way of communicating that the general public don't normally understand (hence the "in English please" jokes)  but that's not really complete proof of their social ineptness. Its a different "laungage" and way of communicating. I definitely think Oliver is a lot bad in the social area, Imo Ray is way friendlier, open and receptive.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Conell

[statsgirl]

I was with you till you said that Oliver is bad in the social area.  Oliver is classic third generation money (first generation starts the company, second generation builds the empire, third generation thinks they don't even need to try, the world is theirs by divine right).  He's got a lot of personal problems due to his upbringing and his time away but put him in a social situation and he's flawless.

 

Ray strikes me as the Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerburg type, someone who is essentially a geek but struck gold with something and hired help for his social image.  They don't always hit the right social chords and they may have been bullied in school because they don't read people right, but they've learned how to make it work now, as opposed to Steve Jobs who knew what people wanted even before they knew they did.

[tv echo]

Interview with CH...

 

Schön! 28 | colton haynes
April 10, 2015
http://www.schonmagazine.com/schon28coltonhaynes/

Colton Haynes retweeted
Ξvan Ross Katz @evanrosskatz  ·  Apr 10
Check out a @SchonMagazine exclusive, bonus quotes from my 1-on-1 with @ColtonLHaynes: http://www.schonmagazine.com/schon28coltonhaynes/…

https://twitter.com/coltonlhaynes

Edited April 11, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Interview with AG (a few excerpts quoted, but the entire interview is worth reading) - I didn't realize she was also on Supernatural and Turn...

 

‘Arrow’ Star Amy Gumenick Talks Finding the Right Role on ‘Arrow’, her ‘Supernatural’ Days and Her Original Love of Theatre
Posted on April 11, 2015   By Nora Dominick ‘17

http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2015/04/11/arrow-star-amy-gumenick-talks-finding-the-right-role-on-arrow-her-supernatural-days-and-her-original-love-of-theatre/

AG: I have been admiring Arrow since I read the pilot script. I read for it and it has kind of been an elaborate game of finding where I fit since. I originally auditioned for the role of Laurel Lance, Katie Cassidy’s character, and that didn’t work out and I just kept coming back. The casting team over at Arrow is so nice and kind and I was determined to find a way to be involved with this show. This was a show I wanted to be part of. David Rapaport over in casting is the nicest person and I befriended him over this long process of trying to find the right role for me. Finally I came in and read for the role of “Redhead,” who ultimately turned out to be Carrie Cuter/Cupid. And I mean just from hearing the name of the character I was concerned because I am blonde in real life. So, I went into it not knowing anything about the character, which I think was the best thing for me because I didn’t have any preconceived idea of who this person was. This was one of the first times I left the audition room thinking I left everything on the table. I gave it my all. Then I ultimately found out that the “Redhead” was Carrie Cuter and I was ecstatic.

*   *   *

... I also think it would be fun to be involved in the Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) storyline. I think what those two have created is amazing. It’s a great storyline with the love-triangle between Oliver, Felicity and Ray and I think it would just be so much fun to add Carrie into the mix and make it a love-square. She would become so attached to Ray and I think it would be a ton of fun. Also, in terms of the Carrie Cuter from the comic book world, I would love to see her go at it with Laurel Lance. In the comics, Cupid and Black Canary have a bit of a rivalry and I think that would be really fun to do with Katie Cassidy.

Edited April 11, 2015 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

I knew she'd been on Supernatural - she played young Mary Winchester.

There is a alternate universe where Amy Gumenick is playing Laurel Lance and Katie Cassidy is playing Cupid, and wow, sometimes I really wish I could watch that show. I still don't see why KC was chosen over her. /bitter

[kismet]

Oooh a Cupid & Ray pairing... That would be intriguing. I could get on board for that one for at least one episode. Maybe they can do something about it in the spin-off. I could see her getting very attached to Ray. How Ray would get rid of her would be interesting. Although maybe the clinginess would work for both of them. They do have a tendency to go from 0 to 100 mph when it comes to relationships. A pedal to the metal love affair might be fun to watch.

Edited April 11, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

I think Ray trying to deal with Cupid would be hilarious.  I think Brandon Routh might get a kick out of it too, he seems to like the comedy parts of Ray.

 

From Comic Book Resources interview (slightly spoilerish for 118 and 319)

 

This many episodes in, what's been your take-away from the experience working on "Arrow," "Flash" and what lies ahead? What's the takeaway for you of this gig?

BR:  I think the take-away is, I never really thought this opportunity... I hadn't conceived of this opportunity, an opportunity to play another superhero. I don't know that that means that anything is possible, so maybe there's that. The other thing is, I could've looked at it and thought, well, I played the coolest superhero ever. What have I got left to prove or do? To get back into the world seems silly because I played Superman. But thankfully I wasn't in that mindset. I stayed open to the creative process. Seeing and knowing how well done "Arrow" was and seeing the teaser for "Flash" that had been out at the time, to see where they'd be going, was very exciting to me.

So I kept my head up, my eyes open, and engaged in talks about the character. And I'm so glad that I did, because it's become the perfect character for me that I didn't know existed. Being able to play not just The Atom, but Ray Palmer, first and foremost -- the fact that I get to be this energetic, lively, wise-cracking character is just very fulfilling for me. So I'm very thankful for it.

No matter how I feel about Ray, Brandon Routh seems like a nice guy.

[kismet]

BR & RP/ATOM actually worked better on Flash, although that is not a surprise considering the tonal differences. I just loved his bromance chemistry with Cisco. I wish they would have spun him off there more than on Arrow. I also think it was a injustice to his character to strand him on Palmer island for so long as well. I'm not saying that he is someone I would tune in for, but at least I didn't tune out for it. Once you removed the angst of Arrowland, Ray & Felicity actually felt more out of place as a couple. They just seemed too much alike or trying too hard. It was like putting sugar on ice cream, just unnecessary & sickening.

[statsgirl]

I got the feeling that BR preferred his time on The Flash, and I have to say, I agree. He got to get out more, interact more, be a hero and a funny guy.

 

I guess we'll see by the end of the season but I think it was a mistake sidelining him with Felicity for both characters.

[quarks]

Yeah, I thought his moments with Cisco, with both of them enthusiastic about code names, were pretty good. He also got his first genuinely compassionate moment yet when he went out to try to bring Felicity and Barry back to try to diffuse the situation - it didn't work, but at least he tried.  And he finally got to do something heroic in the suit.

 

That said - I was trying to figure it out, and apart from the issue of ruining the plans of everyone else who had managed to secure those almost impossible reservations at that restaurant, the character still feels incredibly superficial to me.

 

Also, what kind of scientific genius builds a robot suit that isn't waterproof?

[wonderwall]

Also, what kind of scientific genius builds a robot suit that isn't waterproof?

 

Having 3 PhDs doesn't mean a person has common sense... Actually, having 3 PhDs means that the person has no common sense whatsoever and has a lot of time in their hands when they could've been doing something useful for society...? I don't understand why one would get 3 PhDs

[BkWurm1]

The best thing in the world for Ray will be getting him off Arrow.  He probably could have worked on Arrow in a different season, one not so relentlessly grim or even worked in this season if they'd let him interact with more people sooner.  Alas, hindsight (though pretty obvious common sense IMO)

[lemotomato]

Having 3 PhDs doesn't mean a person has common sense... Actually, having 3 PhDs means that the person has no common sense whatsoever and has a lot of time in their hands when they could've been doing something useful for society...? I don't understand why one would get 3 PhDs

If Ray had started out as a child prodigy, it wouldn't be too crazy for him to stay in school and keep earning PhDs until he was old enough to be hired/taken seriously outside of academia. 

[wonderwall]

If Ray had started out as a child prodigy, it wouldn't be too crazy for him to stay in school and keep earning PhDs until he was old enough to be hired/taken seriously outside of academia. 

 

That's very much so possible, I guess it depends on when he got said PhDs. But I still maintain that having 3 PhDs isn't necessary. Maybe he's such a super genius he just wrote dissertations because he was bored? I just wish that the show would actually reflect just how much of a genius he is like they do with Felicity (because I think sometimes people forget just how gifted she is). Like needing help from Cisco (even though Ray himself is pretty much an engineer) and Felicity doesn't show just how much of a genius he is. I don't believe Tony needed any help building his suit except from maybe getting some info from his father (correct me if I'm wrong here, I haven't seen Iron Man in so long)? So it sort of makes me side eye Ray's actual intelligence if he's just as much of a genius Tony is but can't create a functioning suit. 

[lemotomato]

That's very much so possible, I guess it depends on when he got said PhDs. But I still maintain that having 3 PhDs isn't necessary. Maybe he's such a super genius he just wrote dissertations because he was bored? I just wish that the show would actually reflect just how much of a genius he is like they do with Felicity (because I think sometimes people forget just how gifted she is). Like needing help from Cisco (even though Ray himself is pretty much an engineer) and Felicity doesn't show just how much of a genius he is. I don't believe Tony needed any help building his suit except from maybe getting some info from his father (correct me if I'm wrong here, I haven't seen Iron Man in so long)? So it sort of makes me side eye Ray's actual intelligence if he's just as much of a genius Tony is but can't create a functioning suit. 

As the oft-repeated quote goes, Tony Stark built his suit in a cave, out of scraps. Ray built the suit based on blueprints created by QC's Applied Sciences, so it wasn't even his idea. He needed Felicity to figure out how to retrieve the plans from the server they were stored on, and he needed her help with the microchip. Ray is definitely no Tony Stark. Maybe his PhDs were in Economics and not something technical? He seems like a better businessman than engineer. 

 

Heck, he wouldn't have even been able to hack into QC successfully to steal insider info if not for Felicity's inadvertent advice at Buy More. If I had anything good to say about Raylicity, it would be that her being around him highlights how much of a tech genius she is.

Edited April 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[CabotCove]

The casting team over at Arrow is so nice and kind and I was determined to find a way to be involved with this show. This was a show I wanted to be part of. David Rapaport over in casting is the nicest person and I befriended him over this long process of trying to find the right role for me. Finally I came in and read for the role of “Redhead,” who ultimately turned out to be Carrie Cuter/Cupid. And I mean just from hearing the name of the character I was concerned because I am blonde in real life. So, I went into it not knowing anything about the character, which I think was the best thing for me because I didn’t have any preconceived idea of who this person was. This was one of the first times I left the audition room thinking I left everything on the table. I gave it my all. Then I ultimately found out that the “Redhead” was Carrie Cuter and I was ecstatic.

She makes a fantastic Cupid, it probably was a blessing in disguise. AG just needs to get more screentime now, with 3 shows on air they must try to, so much potential. I didnt even occur to me she was a blonde in real life,she rocks the red too in the show. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Conell

[apinknightmare]

Speaking of Ray getting the suit idea from the blueprints for it, do we have any idea how he even knew those blueprints existed? I can't remember if this was ever addressed in the show. Was he involved in some corporate espionage or what?

[lemotomato]

Speaking of Ray getting the suit idea from the blueprints for it, do we have any idea how he even knew those blueprints existed? I can't remember if this was ever addressed in the show. Was he involved in some corporate espionage or what?

I don't think it was ever addressed, no. I thought that he found out about it after hacking into QC, but that assumes Ray bought the company for the altruistic reasons he stated at the board meeting. It's also possible that he knew about the suit all along, somehow, and bought QC to get to it. I doubt we'll ever know, since the writers are determined to gloss over his shady introduction to the show. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

He must've bought QC to get access to the plans, because isn't that the reason he hired Felicity in the first place? Because no one he knew could get the information off the fried hard drives? He had to have somehow known what was on the hard drives before they got fried.

[looptab]

He must've bought QC to get access to the plans, because isn't that the reason he hired Felicity in the first place? Because no one he knew could get the information off the fried hard drives? He had to have somehow known what was on the hard drives before they got fried.

 

 

 

IIRC he told Felicity about his plans when she asked him why did he buy QC, so I think he did know about them.

[statsgirl]

He bought Tech Village to get Felicity to work for him because no one at QC could get the plans off the busted drives.  So probably he knew what was happening in the Applied Science research labs (the plans) and that was the reason he bought QC in the first place.  Maybe an old school mate worked there and spilled the beans on the secret project.

 

That's very much so possible, I guess it depends on when he got said PhDs. But I still maintain that having 3 PhDs isn't necessary. Maybe he's such a super genius he just wrote dissertations because he was bored?

But you also have to take courses and do the research for the dissertations, and there are residence requirements you have to meet.  It makes zero sense to me to keep getting PhDs when one is going to give you all the academic creds you need.  Three speaks of lack of social skills, or a need to avoid adult life. It's like buying out the entire restaurant, they want it for shorthand on how impressive Ray is but it makes no sense looked at logically.  (Why would the restaurant management ever agree to it?  They couldn't be that short of money since it was sold out for months, and the patrons who were kicked out would bad mouth them.)

[tv echo]

And so the eulogizing begins...

 

'Arrow': Our 10 Favorite Roy Harper Moments
By Derek Stauffer on Friday, April 17, 2015
http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/arrow/arrow-our-top-10-favorite-roy-harper-moments-72545.aspx

[BkWurm1]

(Why would the restaurant management ever agree to it?  They couldn't be that short of money since it was sold out for months, and the patrons who were kicked out would bad mouth them.)

 

Huge start up costs or other debts by the owner is always a possibility.  Or maybe it added to their prestige.  Or maybe Palmer just made them an offer they couldn't refuse.  

 

And yet, in Ray's defense, I don't believe that he thought about what he was doing beyond just making sure his group was getting a nice dinner in a quiet setting.  I think Ray has a lot of flaws and he has an ego about certain things but when it comes to money, I honestly don't think he views it as anything but a means to an end.  He uses his money to get what he wants but does it in almost a naïve way like he's not aware of the power he's throwing around.  He's generous and IMO honestly doesn't attach strings - they may still exist cause others still see them but I don't get the feeling Ray thinks about them when he makes his grand gestures.

 

I'd love to find out his history.  Has he always had money?   Even if he was born into privilege, just when did he become so filthy stinking rich that he thinks nothing of buying up a failing business (Queen Consolidated) just so he can further his dream of protecting his city in the name of the fiancé he couldn't save and when that wasn't enough to get what he wanted, he merely bought up another chain of stores.  Yes, he thought it would ensure Felicity would work with him, but he was also certain he would make a healthy profit. 

 

Is Palmer one of those guys that can't help but make money on anything he touches so it doesn't mean much to him?

 

He considers himself first a scientist and an inventor but apparently he's a natural businessman too.  At the very least he knows how to hire the best of the best 'cause you know he's not spending a whole lot more time paying attention to PT then Oliver did to QC. 

[CabotCove]

But you also have to take courses and do the research for the dissertations, and there are residence requirements you have to meet.  It makes zero sense to me to keep getting PhDs when one is going to give you all the academic creds you need.

 

Maybe he likes to know and specialize in more than one subject? such that credentials isn't  the only thing he is after?, in this information/digital age a lot of things have become connected,  one subject can be dependent on or lead to another. If you have the time and can afford it I don't see why not, learning is a lifelong process anyway, whether in a classroom setting or not. Even  working people keep on learning. Jmo. 

 

I'd love to find out his history.  Has he always had money?   Even if he was born into privilege, just when did he become so filthy stinking rich that he thinks nothing of buying up a failing business

 

Yeah I hope too they shed more light on that, its probably spin-off bound material though.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Conell

[kismet]

Its a small detail. But the buying out the whole restaurant is a douchy thing to do if it cancelled everyone else's reservations. I understand basic TV production economics that an empty restaurant is cheaper to film than a full restaurant, so I get why they did it. What would have made Ray seem amazing & rich, is if he said he convinced the owners to open up on their day off. I used to work in the restaurant industry and its not uncommon for family-run or independent/small restaurants to be closed on a certain day of the week (usually Monday, less profitable) for the staff to get a rest. But if Palmer with his money & charming personality could convince them to open up just for this special occasion, it would show that Ray cares (trying to make a special moment & pick place Iris likes) and it would also be logical & not douchy. IDK, its simple attention to details & tones that they seem to miss when it comes to Ray. I don't think his intentions are to supposed be creepy or douchy, but the writers seem to emphasize the worst stuff and zoom over the better rationales.