S05.E11: Courtney

[Tara Ariano]

A Christian girl struggles with abstinence.

[IvySpice]

Ha! at the description. I'd say she lost that battle.

[geekamonggeeks]

According to previews, she also learns that her baby may be born with a cleft palate, which she herself had as a child. I don't know why they're playing up the abstinent thing because I think the cleft palate issue way more interesting.

[Guest]

Things I did not know God provided:

* WIC benefits

* welfare

Things I wished God provided:

* gift cards to the liquor store

* free shoes at Nordstrom's

* common sense to "born-again virgins"

[wrestlesflamingos]

Chris Hanson spends less time talking about horny teenagers.  Perhaps chastity would be easier if it wasn't the only topic of conversation.  

[Brooklynista]

Where did I put my damn morals?? Oh look...Found Em!!

I laughed thru this entire episode. Courtney was giving me Carrie Whites mother with her fear of sinful, dirty touching.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Oddly, no footage of her attending church.  I think abstinent means: disgusted with boning you but unable to break up due to baby.  I think she'll needle him into a break up and run back home.

[truebluesmoky]

Still, though, that guy was an aaaaaaaasshole.

[Brooklynista]

I couldn't get over the way she kept saying "Ab.Sti.Nence?" She kept sounding it out like she just learned it from her word of the day calendar. She really wasnt sure she was using it correctly in a sentence.

"We're practicing abstinence?"

[Guest]

I laughed thru this entire episode

Truth! I found the entire episode played out like a live-action Chick tract. Especially found creepy purity-ring-giver dad thanking the good lord for the pizza and a bag of Kettle Chips especially hilarious.

Sex! It's so dirty and WRONG, ladies! Clutch those purity rings between your knees!

Edited June 17, 2014 by Guest

[MitaJo]

Such an asshole, truebluesmoky! The long hair was enough to make me hate him, but the fact that he believed that just because he had a JOB that he didn't have to help her take care of their son. Get the hell out of here with that one, loser. What happened to not wanting to be a weekend father? They're living with you and you're not much of a father anyway.

 

Aside from them not having sex, I also wonder if the baby's cleft lip had anything to do with him not even wanting to hold his son. That BS about not wanting him to be a "girl" and teaching him to be independent as his reasons for not holding the baby or changing his diapers was ridiculous. I just wanted her to pack her shit and move back home. He acted like he was doing her a favor taking care of them and the least she could do is screw him. Why do the guys suck so much ass this season??

Edited June 17, 2014 by MitaJo

[truebluesmoky]

The abstinence stuff was ridiculous, but she does have the right to control her own body and her own sex life. She came across as a caring attached mom, and I thought that chubby baby was one of the cutest newborns in the franchise.

Side note: I wish these kids wouldn't name their babies names with sounds in them that they have no intention of pronouncing. Dayton (is that how they spelled it?) had no T when they said it.

[geekamonggeeks]

I missed the beginning. Did they say that Courtney's decision to refrain from sex was hers alone? Because if it was, I can understand why Scott was getting antsy. Don't get me wrong; he was an asshole for other reasons. But the sex thing I got. Yeah, Courtney has a right to do what she wants with her own body, but I feel like if you're in a relationship, then any major decisions like sex should be made with your partner. I'd be pissed if I came home one day and my boyfriend or whatever announced, "Guess what? Since you're pregnant now, I'm not going to sleep with you! Isn't that great?" 

 

 

[ghoulina]

I got really annoyed at how cavalier Scott was being about the baby's cleft lip before he was born. They were very fortunate that it turned out to be a minor one, but some babies are born with such a bad cleft that feeding them becomes an issue. It can be very scary. And even after Dayton was born and they were discussing surgery, he seemed more concerned about the cost than anything. 

 

I don't know, I'm really not sure what to think about this dude. I did think Courtney was nagging a bit too much. I know it's really hard in the beginning, but she has to realize he's not going to be able to come home and do a ton of stuff. He works all day and he DOES have to sleep, given how dangerous his job could be if he didn't. It's really not a good idea to sit there and count how many diapers the dude changes. But, on the other hand, I really didn't care for his attitude about the baby. Holding the baby a lot is going to turn him into a "little girl"? What the what?? That really pissed me off. 

 

And then when they had that argument and he threw the carseat, he totally lost me. What if you had damaged it? Your baby's safety depends on that thing, you asshat! No passes for Courtney either - she left the room and the baby did NOT look like he was strapped into that swing. 

 

Honestly, I think Scott is just feeling frustrated because he's not getting any. In a way, I admire Courtney for wanting to give abstinence another go. But I think it was completely stupid and unrealistic to think you could live with your boyfriend, the father of your baby, and not have sex with him....and it would just be all lollipops and roses. I think Scott is incredibly resentful right now and I bet he's withholding helping out, affection, etc. until she caves and has sex with him. I predict some flandering (TM Gretchen Rossi) in his future. 

 

Final thought - Courtney's dad looked like Noah Emmerich's long, lost brother.

[RedKoolAide]

Yeah, Courtney and her dirty pillows mantra was wearing on me but Scott was also a jackass about the sex. Sex is great but it's not the only thing that matters. How can he be too tired to help her with the baby but ready to bone at the drop of a dime?

I thought the baby was adorable and I'm glad the cleft lip wasn't as bad as Courtney feared. I imagine it'd be difficult for the baby to feed properly if the cleft lip/palate was worse.

Also, this new thing with wearing skull caps/knit hats indoors makes me irrationally angry.

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Lilit's post on the episode!

[spidermiss2426]

The first thing I said to myself about Scott when I saw him was "He looks just like Shaggy from Scooby Doo!!!"

[pakalolo]

The way this family talked religion to death was so infuriating, they just seemed to be into the most superficial things like buying purity rings and putting up crosses all over the house. Everyone's fixation on sex was pretty disturbing as well. I have a feeling Courtney's facebook is clogged with every 'inspirational bible quote over a bland landscape photo' she comes across and she doesn't even read them before posting. 

[truebluesmoky]

From Lilit's post:

 

 

Scott is -- and I hesitate to apply this word to any dude on the franchise -- great.

 

No... no no no no no no no. He is a complete tool. First, his crap about not wanting to help with the baby is bullshit. Yes, he works, and he's actually right that her job is to be a stay-at-home-mom. But her job never ends. Yes, he's tired when he gets home from his 8 hour day, and yes, he needs to sleep at night. But that time between getting home and going to bed? He should absolutely be relieving her from taking care of the baby. She needs breaks. When does she get to relax because she's tired? They both need to be caring for that baby equally when he's home. He came across as a total dick during that fight. He also agreed to stay with her when she decided she didn't want sex to be part of their relationship anymore but held it over her head constantly, including making her feel like he'd leave her for someone who would bang him if they didn't have a child together. That's emotional blackmail. Not to mention the bullshit about how the reason he wouldn't hold the baby when he was crying in the swing and Courtney was trying to take a nap was because poor Dayton needed to be independent and not a little girl. WTF is that sexist trash? It's either just an excuse to not lift a finger when it comes to actually caring for your child or it's a horrible attitude that will hurt his son as he grows up. Yes, the guy works and has an apartment. Those are the only two redeeming qualities that asshat had. That's how low the bar is now? I'd rather have a typical immature teen dad who is somewhat lazy and naive about working and money but is a devoted, helpful, loving father to his baby.

Edited June 18, 2014 by truebluesmoky

[ghoulina]

I agree, that's a pretty low bar. Scott was definitely better than some of the guys we've seen on this show, but he was far from "great". And, I often think to myself - a piece of shit that completely abandons his child and never has any influence over him/her might be preferable to the guys who stick around, but yell and fight and demean the mother in front of the child. If he's still saying that "little girl" BS when the kid is old enough to get it, say when he cuts his leg open riding his bike, that could be pretty damaging to the child as well. Generally I think it's preferable that a child has their mother and father in their life, but it really depends on what kind of parent you're going to be.

[JayCutler]

What an annoying group of people. Did she really find it necessary to keep a tally of how many diapers Scott changed per week?

 

"You never get up at night with him, it's always me!! wahhhh!" Well no shit, what do you expect when you barricade yourself in a separate bedroom behind an arsenal of Jesus pieces. Scott should have noped the fuck out of that relationship as soon as she decided to become a hyper-religious chastity advocate. You could almost see him trying to crawl out of his skin during that uncomfortable sex talk during the family dinner. 

[RedKoolAide]

When they were having the sex talk at the table I wondered how they could be so open to talk about Courtney's sex life AFTER she was pregnant but an educated sex talk wasn't an option BEFORE? I think if her parents had talked to her about safe sex and given her the option of birth control, maybe she wouldn't have become pregnant. Drilling abstinence into your child's head doesn't always work. Hello, she's pregnant and now wants to abstain?

[dorcastrilling]

I thought Dayton was the cutest little thing, and the surgeries done on Courtney's cleft were a lot more successful than some I have seen....but I just couldn't with the beak on that chick. I am sorry that is so shallow, but her nose was really distracting.

[RedKoolAide]

I thought Dayton was the cutest little thing, and the surgeries done on Courtney's cleft were a lot more successful than some I have seen....but I just couldn't with the beak on that chick. I am sorry that is so shallow, but her nose was really distracting.

It was. I didn't want to say anything but it was huge. Plus, she had it pierced which brought more attention to it.

[ShaNaeNae]

Courtney's asshol-ish boyfriend looks like Peter Tork in this picture.

 

but I just couldn't with the beak on that chick. I am sorry that is so shallow, but her nose was really distracting.

 

I know, was that from her cleft lip? Or the nose ring? Or combo of both? Because it looked like when you plug your nose when something stinks and your nostrils stay stuck for a minute.

 

I will say she looked better than a lot of the girls this season. She had a decent color hair and seemed to do her hair and makeup a little each day without going overboard.

[purplemonkey]

The baby looked like a cabbage patch doll, but yeah, he was cute. 

 

In her voiceover at the beginning she says she was self-conscious about her lip and all, but Scott liked her anyway. Earth to Courtney: if some guy wants to do you, he's not going to care what your lip scar looks like! I thought she looked perfectly fine but the nose ring was a questionable choice.

 

I don't have much sympathy for Scott's blue balls. If he didn't agree with the deal he could break up with her. I mean it'd be shitty, but I'm just saying, nobody held a gun to his head and said he'd have to date someone who's practicing abstinence. I'm more interested in hearing about what kind of birth control they will use after they marry. She was so focused on not having sex, it's like I'm not sure she understands how birth control works.

[augmentedfourth]

 I'm more interested in hearing about what kind of birth control they will use after they marry. She was so focused on not having sex, it's like I'm not sure she understands how birth control works.

 

I'm sure she doesn't. I even said to Mr. Fourth while watching last night, "They're going to have three more kids in the next two years, just watch."

[ghoulina]

I know, was that from her cleft lip? Or the nose ring? Or combo of both? Because it looked like when you plug your nose when something stinks and your nostrils stay stuck for a minute.

 

I don't know that it was from her cleft, because her mom seemed to have a similar nose. And count me in with those who thought the nose ring a horrible choice, it brought so much more attention to her nose. Very distracting indeed. 

[poeticlicensed]

I don't understand why they felt like the expense for the baby's operation was going to fall on their shoulders, but in the next breath speak of food stamps. No talk of medical insurance through his job, so my guess is that he doesn't have it or doesn't qualify. Which probably means he's not making all that much money. Factor in a baby that has no insurance and most states have programs that cover uninsured children. It just didn't make any sense.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I got a creepy feeling about uber religious dad. And it bugs the hell out of me when people like Courtney chant that God will provide, so I guess they have no responsibility to take steps to provide for themselves. 

 

I didn't have negative feelings toward either of them, I just thought they were incredibly naive

[Lilit]

 

And count me in with those who thought the nose ring a horrible choice, it brought so much more attention to her nose.

 

She had so many bad choices, but I couldn't get over her headbands. The faux-hippie flower wraparound headband was so horrible I actually shuddered at the sight of it. 

[gunderda]

I think he was frustrated because not only was she not wanting to have sex, from what I gathered, she didn't want to do ANYTHING. Except maybe cuddle.  Because she felt anything would lead them to sex.  

[Ladystardust]

I'm from a small hick town and it's appalling how many men I know who believe the extent of being a father is bringing home a paycheck. They expect to be able to come home, lay on the couch and watch tv, have dinner served to them, then go to bed early with the only interaction with their children being maybe a hug or kiss before bed. I have a family member who refuses to watch his own son because that's "his wife's job". If she wants to go to a movie with friends for 2 hours, he stays home alone and she has to have her mom or sister watch the baby. It's disgusting, but that ideology runs rampant in some cultures/regions.

 

Was it just me or did Scott looks really old? Like he was pushing 40 but trying to remain "hip" with his stupid haircut. His face looked super old.

 

As for the sex thing, he was driving me nuts. I think if I got pregnant at that age, I would be a little wary of having sex for a while too (although her reasoning was religion). But it's her body and at least she was up front about it and wasn't teasing him by sleeping in the same bed and such. Although I do think her moving in was a terrible idea in this situation. But he was such a baby about it. People CAN survive without having sex. It might suck, but either break up with her or get over it. I had a medical issue that pretty much halted sex for about 6 months of the first year of my marriage. It sucked, but my husband didn't act like an asshole 24/7 because of it.

[woodscommaelle]

Dude scared the shit out of me.  His affect when watering his plants (Were those houseplants?  Astroturf?) during their kitchen argument gave me chills. He was seriously scary.

I thought she was a pretty girl.  And I liked her faux-hippie headband :)

Her dad reminded me of possibly a 2nd cousin of Steve Sanders (Bev Hills).

 

This is one couple I'd be interested in seeing down the road, a la Teen Mom 4.  But, I could also do without a Teen Mom 4.  

[Universalhunter]

From Lilit's post:

No... no no no no no no no. He is a complete tool. First, his crap about not wanting to help with the baby is bullshit. Yes, he works, and he's actually right that her job is to be a stay-at-home-mom. But her job never ends. Yes, he's tired when he gets home from his 8 hour day, and yes, he needs to sleep at night. But that time between getting home and going to bed? He should absolutely be relieving her from taking care of the baby. She needs breaks. When does she get to relax because she's tired? They both need to be caring for that baby equally when he's home. He came across as a total dick during that fight. He also agreed to stay with her when she decided she didn't want sex to be part of their relationship anymore but held it over her head constantly, including making her feel like he'd leave her for someone who would bang him if they didn't have a child together. That's emotional blackmail. Not to mention the bullshit about how the reason he wouldn't hold the baby when he was crying in the swing and Courtney was trying to take a nap was because poor Dayton needed to be independent and not a little girl. WTF is that sexist trash? It's either just an excuse to not lift a finger when it comes to actually caring for your child or it's a horrible attitude that will hurt his son as he grows up. Yes, the guy works and has an apartment. Those are the only two redeeming qualities that asshat had. That's how low the bar is now? I'd rather have a typical immature teen dad who is somewhat lazy and naive about working and money but is a devoted, helpful, loving father to his baby.

QFT. Honestly, this guy was definitely low in the ranks as far as dads go to me. What is the deal with teen dads not believing in nurturing their newborns? We've seen it pop up in this episode and the one where the dad insisted they let their week-old daughter cry it out.

Men who have jobs and therefore believe they're entitled to do nothing at home piss me off. You presumably get a lunch break everyday that you can take alone, you have days off, and your job ends in the evening every day. But, because you get paid and she doesn't, she has to do her job 24/7/365 with no help? Sexist asshole. When everyone's home, it's a shared responsibility. I know a lot of men like this, my own dad was one of them even though my mom worked full-time as well- she came home and cared for me and my brother, cooked, cleaned, while my dad came home and layed around. Needless to say, they're divorced.

[NikSac]

It was. I didn't want to say anything but it was huge. Plus, she had it pierced which brought more attention to it.

 

Her nose itself didn't bother me... the fact that she pierced it made me say "WTF were you thinking????"

[wrestlesflamingos]

I think the piercing was supposed to draw attention away from the tip of her nose. It didn't work. However she looked amazing for having a serious cleft and I've seen many worse natural noses.

[CaughtOnTape]

That was....by far.....the creepiest father/daughter/boyfriend talk about sex at the kitchen table that I have ever seen.  Wanting details about what Scott was "going to do" now that he couldn't have sex.  Seriously?  That was scary.  What, did you people want pictures and video?  Gross.

 

Courtney struck me as a baby.  Which is probably something she's used to in her family considering her cleft thing.  Her parents probably babied the shit out of her her entire life.  Hence why she felt Scott was put on the planet to please her.  Granted he was a dick for not wanting to help her with the kid, but I got where he was coming from.  If that wasn't what she was bitching about it would've been something else.  Nothing was ever good enough.

 

She lives in Colorado Springs....land of the superficially religious.  I so hate that "My relationship with God is what's most important" bullshit people spew.  She is the worst kind of religious freak....ones who think everyone else is supposed to bend to their will.

[SusieQZie]

I'm a little late to the party, just catching up on my taped shows, but wow. Scott was super creepy, and, as another poster mentioned- what is up with the sticking caps in the house? That drives me nuts. I also hate when they sit around with coats on. 

 

I feel like they won't be lasting much longer as a couple, and I think Courtney and Dayton will be better off.

[ccphilly]

Dayton was an adorable baby.  I think Scott was just going along with the no sex thing because he thought that once she moved in, she'd give in.  His attitude "that(being a mom) is your JOB"  was off putting for someone so young.

 

If Courtney doesn't want sex, that's her decision and I respect it, but there were a few times I said to myself "she's enjoying this".  I can't put my finger on what bothered me about her attitude about abstinence, but she seemed smirky about the whole thing.  Maybe it's just the way she came off on camera.  

Edited June 20, 2014 by ccphilly

[IvySpice]

 

I so hate that "My relationship with God is what's most important" bullshit people spew.

Yeah, your relationship with your kid ought to be more important than that. And he needs an earthly father, not just a spiritual father.

 

Scott was obviously in the wrong refusing to change diapers, hold his son, etc. There's no excuse for his behavior. At the same time, did he ever give her any indication that he was going to be a modern dad, not some retrograde caveman "I provide and that's it" dad? Just as she has her ridiculous beliefs about sex and the tiny role it ought to play in a romantic relationship (ha!), he has ridiculous sexist selfish beliefs about gender roles and the tiny role he ought to play in raising a child. I kinda think they both got what they deserved for not actually getting to know the other's values before deciding to raise a child together.

 

I don't mean AT ALL to minimize the toxic sexism there. But I think that expecting the father of your child to stay in a committed romantic relationship with you with no physical side is about as unrealistic and unfair as expecting a stay-at-home mom to do 100% of the parenting. Sex MATTERS. This is how pair bonding works in our species. I mean, the lack of sex that can accompany new-baby exhaustion is a major area of conflict even for a lot of mature married couples. I don't think refusing to have sex -- even for a supposed moral reason -- is at all the same as a medical problem that keeps you from having sex. He was willing to marry her to resolve the moral problem, and she wouldn't. Neither of them was willing to make any compromise to meet the other's totally valid needs.

 

 

I can't put my finger on what bothered me about her attitude about abstinence, but she seemed smirky about the whole thing.

 

She did, and to me it seemed that she was deliberately using this power to test him. I just don't agree with her that someone who loves you will willingly suspend an ongoing sexual relationship for years. Sweetheart, sex is the biggest reason that men want relationships with women at all. He could live with one of his buddies if he wanted a roommate.

 

Ridiculously cute child, even with the cleft lip. I barely even noticed it. I read Scott's casualness about the lip possibility differently -- it seemed to me that it honestly didn't matter to him except as a medical procedure to pay for and put behind them. I mean, he apparently fell in love with this girl who had a repaired cleft, and she talks and breathes and eats normally, and she even looks very good. In those circumstances, of course he's going to say it's no big deal. If he had been all, "Oh no! Tragedy! Our baby might be like you!" I bet she would have heard that as a condemnation of her own value.

[CaughtOnTape]

Dayton was an adorable baby.  I think Scott was just going along with the no sex thing because he thought that once she moved in, she'd give in.  His attitude "that(being a mom) is your JOB"  was off putting for someone so young.

 

If Courtney doesn't want sex, that's her decision and I respect it, but there were a few times I said to myself "she's enjoying this".  I can't put my finger on what bothered me about her attitude about abstinence, but she seemed smirky about the whole thing.  Maybe it's just the way she came off on camera.  

 

She seemed smirky about it because she brought it up every 10 minutes.  "Are you ok with us NOT HAVING SEX?"  "What do you think about us NOT HAVING SEX?"  "I'm gonna bring you over to spend some time with my parents where we can discuss us NOT HAVING SEX."  

I'm quite sure the girl wanted sex.  As she consistently threw it in his face.  "I would stay with you but we'd have sex, because I don't trust myself."  "I'll move in, but we have to have separate rooms because I don't think we can keep our hands off each other."

 

It's like she was baiting him into turning around and screaming "Fine, it bugs me we aren't sleeping together.  I want to break up with you over it, but I don't want to look like a superficial dick."

[stormy weather]

Still, though, that guy was an aaaaaaaasshole.

 

 

Such an asshole, truebluesmoky! The long hair was enough to make me hate him, but the fact that he believed that just because he had a JOB that he didn't have to help her take care of their son. Get the hell out of here with that one, loser. What happened to not wanting to be a weekend father? They're living with you and you're not much of a father anyway.

 

Aside from them not having sex, I also wonder if the baby's cleft lip had anything to do with him not even wanting to hold his son. That BS about not wanting him to be a "girl" and teaching him to be independent as his reasons for not holding the baby or changing his diapers was ridiculous. I just wanted her to pack her shit and move back home. He acted like he was doing her a favor taking care of them and the least she could do is screw him. Why do the guys suck so much ass this season??

 

 

I think sometimes you guys forget that these kids are 18-19 YEARS OLD. Scott is mature enough to have a job, provide a home for his family and pay for everything else, he was supportive of Courtney through the entire pregnancy and the cleft lip ordeal, he has been patient and never complained and always tried to look at the positive side of things. Plus, he's being denied sex, I repeat, AT 19 YEARS OF AGE! We can't really expect him to be a feminist too now, can we. I agree he should spend more time with his son and hold him more often, but sometimes I feel these girls do feel very entitled and ask a lot of the fathers while not doing much themselves. Call me old fashioned, but I kind of got where he was coming from when he said taking care of the baby was her job. 

By the way, Dayton was absolutely the cutest baby of the season, together with Eden from last episode. 

[ShaNaeNae]

I loved Dayton's hair. Usually you see little hair, no hair or a head of black hair on babies. I don't usually see a good amount of actual brown hair on babies so it looked adorable.

 

I was watching the reunion, or was it unseen clips? Can't remember, but she caught him looking at porn on his phone. I thought she responded a little naïve. Like the usual "why did you do it?" "Do you want someone like that instead of me?" She basically said she wants the man she's with to obsess over her so much that he doesn't think about porn. Honey, you need to learn how men are wired. Men may obsess over some women, but I can say they probably still look at porn. It's not that they look at Miss Alexxxis Boom Boom and think, "I want her to be my wife". It's sex and getting off only. Especially if they aren't having sex. He needs to let a load off girlfriend. Not saying it's ok for men to look at porn, but he's not going to respond well to her saying "no sex" and then "no porn, you must look at me only". Men are just different like that.

[NikSac]

Not saying it's ok for men to look at porn, but he's not going to respond well to her saying "no sex" and then "no porn, you must look at me only". Men are just different like that.

 

Totally agreed... I understand the jealousy (if that's the right word) about porn but really, it doesn't mean that much.  I think she's totally unrealistic to say "Don't touch me, no sex, and ohbytheway don't look at any other girls either, ever!"  I actually think these two have a shot together but not if she continues on that path.

[neatoburrito]

All I can say about the abstinence thing is... talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. The guy was such a greasy ass loser though, I was just willing her to leave him for most of the episode.