S20.E12: Dear Ben

[dttruman]

Episode information is from Googling SVU episode 12: A serial rapist strikes again after two decades of silence, and SVU is determined to uncover the elusive criminal and bring justice to his many victims; Stone discovers that his father worked on the case before it went cold.

So it looks like we will have Stone back. I hope he won't be imitating a marshmallow this time like he has in a couple of past episodes.

Does anyone know if this might be from an old episode of Law & Order where Ben Stone was the ADA?

[illdoc]

32 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Does anyone know if this might be from an old episode of Law & Order where Ben Stone was the ADA?

I think I heard "25 years ago" in the preview, which would make it 1994, and Ben was the ADA in 1994 (his last season was 1993-1994). However, I don't recall any "loose end" with regards to a serial rapist, so I don't think it is a sequel to a L&O episode.

[Xeliou66]

No it’s not a sequel to an L&O episode, there was no serial rapist case that Stone worked on on the Mothership. This episode looks promising, the case looks good and I like the callback to Ben Stone.

[Fellaway]

Ugh, I hope this is not yet another episode giving Stone a featured role, not when it's been... how many seasons now since Carisi has had even one?  Oh, yeah, right.  Not since Leight left.

[dttruman]

On 1/11/2019 at 11:56 PM, Fellaway said:

Ugh, I hope this is not yet another episode giving Stone a featured role, not when it's been... how many seasons now since Carisi has had even one?  Oh, yeah, right.  Not since Leight left.

Do you count that one, that had Carisi's female relative being assaulted, and he told her to lie? I am still trying to figure out why he told her to do that.

On 1/11/2019 at 4:48 PM, Xeliou66 said:

This episode looks promising, the case looks good and I like the callback to Ben Stone.

I agree, it looks like it could be a good investigative episode. I wonder if this is going to be a two part episode?

Edited January 15, 2019 by dttruman

[Xeliou66]

No, it will not be a 2 part episode, there won’t be a new episode in the next week and I don’t think the one after that will have anything to do with this case, from what I hear, Rollins will give birth in episode 13.

[Fellaway]

16 hours ago, dttruman said:

Do you count that one that had Carisi's female relative being assaulted, and he told her to lie?

Not really.  He was just a supporting player in someone else's story, as usual since Season 18.  And the ep itself was just an inferior retread of a Season 16 ep.

16 hours ago, dttruman said:

I am still trying to figure out why he told her to do that.

Because the regimes, since Season 18 and onwards, don't know who Carisi is as a person, nor do I think they care.  They just seem to write him as the plot point they need in the moment.  I've said, ad nauseam, that I want to see more of Carisi's life and I do - If only we'd see half as much of his as we have of Benson's and Rollins' and now, apparently, Stone's. - but maybe it's a good thing, at this point, that we don't.  I don't trust these writers with Carisi.

[dttruman]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No, it will not be a 2 part episode, there won’t be a new episode in the next week and I don’t think the one after that will have anything to do with this case, from what I hear, Rollins will give birth in episode 13.

As of yesterday, I couldn't find out what the next episode (1/24) following this one coming up. So I was wondering about the two-part theory.

[Xeliou66]

There will be no episode on January 24, I don’t know why, the next new episode will be on January 31, it is titled A Story of More Woe. Rollins will give birth in this episode.

[WendyCR72]

"A Story of More Woe" can describe almost this entire series, if you think about it.

[ChristiKRN]

36 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

"A Story of More Woe" can describe almost this entire series, if you think about it.

In particular the last few seasons.  I wonder how much drama they are going to summon for this birth, considering she had a placenta abruptio with the last one.  Judging by the title of the episode, I'm guessing a whole lot of drama.  I was hoping they were going to just mention that Rollins had the baby offscreen and that would be it.  Is it too much to hope?

[WendyCR72]

I wonder if the baby will be stillborn or whatever, hence the title. Not that I give a crap about more spawn, but doing that would definitely mean "more woe".

[Picture It. Sicily]

Like "Never has there been a story of more woe, then that of Juliet and her Romeo"?

[wknt3]

10 hours ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

Like "Never has there been a story of more woe, then that of Juliet and her Romeo"?

Glad I read to the end of the thread before posting the same thing! I'm hoping the title is a reference to the case being a Romeo and Juliet story and if there is any additional woe for Rollins it's Dr. McCreepy abandoning her never to appear or be spoken of again. We can always hope right?

[illdoc]

Oh, dear God! This episode is going to have Benoah in it!!! In fact, in this article/clip, the actual case is barely mentioned---the focus is on Benson, Noah, & Stone (as in, they are hanging out together outside of work). https://tvline.com/2019/01/16/law-order-svu-season-20-episode-12-video-olivia-stone-noah/

[Xeliou66]

This isn’t good at all. The last thing I want is for Stone to get involved with Benson’s personal life, he’s already shown signs of becoming a Benson bot this season, get him away from St Olivia and the demon child!!

Edited January 17, 2019 by Xeliou66

[SarahPrtr]

I'm so sick of all these immature-teenage-girl drama plotlines this show has become.  Wtf happened to talented detectives who did their freaking JOB and the episodes which showed the process of catching The Bad Guy, instead of endlessly peddling the same bullshit female personal drama every freaking week????!!!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

My expectations, are IN THE DIRT!

At least I can enjoy the Man Candy, with Stone and Carisi. 

Edited January 18, 2019 by MrsRafaelBarba

[MrsRafaelBarba]

They 're really pushing BenStone.

 

RME

[dttruman]

They turned the beginning into family time with Stone, Benson, and Noah. So glad it's over! And now on with the crime and investigation.

Edited January 18, 2019 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hope Carisi stays front and center, I like him and Stone together.

 

anyone else notice how that woman resembles the two rape victims?

Edited January 18, 2019 by MrsRafaelBarba

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Jude Ciccolella is a dead ringer for the Golden State Rapist.

[dttruman]

13 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Hope Carisi stays front and center, I like him and Stone together.

So far so good. I wonder if Stone is going to do something stupid at the end here?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Had to catch my eyes, before they rolled out the door.

[galaxychaser]

Oh joy Ben is playing daddy to Noah. I smell a romantic story for Olivia and Ben. 

[dttruman]

The investigation started out well, but then it seemed so superficial to me. I don't know if it was to make room for that family moment for Benson at the end or what.

[Gigi43]

On 1/15/2019 at 7:11 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder if the baby will be stillborn or whatever, hence the title. Not that I give a crap about more spawn, but doing that would definitely mean "more woe".

 I give a crap in the sense that when I've seen pregnant actresses play losing babies on soaps, I think it's the most insensitive thing a producer can do to make an actress play out what must be a terrible fear of a pregnant woman all because they couldn't write a story ignoring the pregnancy. 

 

Trying not to go off on a rant but I never understand why people do those DNA things. I don't even consider it a conspiracy theory anymore that it will be used against you via law enforcement,  and since some give you info on your genetic makeup in chances of being a carrier of certain diseases, and so, evemtually if they aren't already insurance companies will be buying the info. Obtaining dna that way shouldn't be legal so I'm glad it was thrown out. I do like that SVU brought it up and had it thrown out. That's topical stuff I want on SVU.

 

Nice seeing Ned Eisenberg back. But the whole Ben Stone callback was lame because it was never a case on Mothership and it seems like they don't know what to do with Peter beyond baseball, Ben, and now Liv-no I can't even say it. The case in general seemed like maybe they had the Golden State *Rapist. Edited: I see people referring to rapist. I don't know how or why I thought he was a killer. Whoops. I watch a lot of real crime shows maybe I confused two together.

 

I haven't noticed before  now much I like the colors of Bensons apartment. One point for Benson.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Gigi43

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Phillip Winchester hasn't tweeted about SVU  for a while.

Nothing to promote tonight's eppy, that was focused on Stone.

also gave more backstory on his relationship with Ben.

Hmmmm...

[Fellaway]

I liked this ep.  It's one of the better ones, by post-Season 17 standards.  Definitely their take on the Golden State Rapist case, right down to using familial DNA from a genealogy website to make an ID.  I have wondered, for real, about the legality of police using that to crack cases, but I've never seen anything brought up about that in the cases I've read about in the news.  So it was interesting to see it brought up here.  Liked that.  Not so much their continued portrayal of Carisi, like he never went to law school or passed the bar or he must've been a sub-par student because they always make him wrong on legal issues.  Stop it, Show.

That said, this ep had a decent amount of Carisi time, more than what I was expecting for what looked like a Stone ep.  And it was decent quality Carisi time, by post-Season 17 standards.  I liked that he was the one who made a connection with the niece and got the intel that broke the case.  (Ah, is that the sweet scent of Season 17, I smell?)  Any chance the niece is the girl they've been telling us Carisi will meet (and, presumably, date)?

Olivia, I, too, am over Noah's attitude.  But that talk with Noah at the end?  Where she tells him his father is in heaven and loved him very, very, very, very much?  Wow.  I mean, I wouldn't tell the kid the truth, but that was a whopper of a lie you're gonna have to walk back when the kid is old enough.

[Xeliou66]

That was one of the best episodes of the season, minus the Noah crap. 

Great focus for Peter Stone, it was beyond time that he got something to do this season other than drink and hook up with women, it was great to see him get a lot of focus. And the references to Ben Stone were very nice for Mothership fans. Fin and Carisi were awesome as always, I’m loving that partnership and I hope we continue to get more of it going forward, and I liked the Carisi/Stone scenes as well. 

The case was good, although I thought the copycat case was solved too quickly and easily, it would’ve been nice to see a bit more detective work done to solve that case. 

Always nice to see Kressler, he’s been a defense attorney for ages. I was unsure as to why he wasn’t there at the end though, even though Noone didn’t ask for him, shouldn’t Kressler have still been there, or since the Infinity case had been dropped, maybe there was no need to notify him? And how was the latest victims voice ID tainted? I had no idea why the judge tossed that out.

The Noah shit was just that, pure shit that added nothing to the storyline. Why did Benson flat out lie to him about his father, I wouldn’t tell Noah that his dad was a murderous human trafficking scumbag but she was wrong to flat out lie to him about his dad loving him and being in heaven, when Noah gets older, how will she explain the truth? 

And please, stop shoving Benson/Stone down our throats, I hate how they are making them incredibly close and possibly setting up a romance. And now Peter is acting like a father figure to the sex traffickers brat, just stop it please.

[Fellaway]

22 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Fin and Carisi were awesome as always, I’m loving that partnership and I hope we continue to get more of it going forward

I have the feeling, once Rollins has her baby (Read:  KG is back full-time.), we might see less of that partnership.

 

23 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Always nice to see Kressler, he’s been a defense attorney for ages.

Yes!  Him and the attorney for the copycat.  I've been missing their roster of recurring defense attorneys this season, they've become a part of the SVU world over the last several seasons, then, for awhile now, they've been gone.  I miss Buchanan!  Who knew??

 

25 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

And how was the latest victims voice ID tainted? I had no idea why the judge tossed that out.

It was fruit from the poisonous tree.  Because she threw out the ID of the accused, any evidence that resulted from that ID also had to be thrown out.

 

27 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Noah shit was just that, pure shit that added nothing to the storyline.

How much you wanna bet some kid on the playground gives Noah the real lowdown on who his father was, just so we have more Olivia angst.  Ugh.  You know, I didn't mind the Noah stuff during the Leight years.  Part of that, of course, was because he was a cute toddler who didn't talk yet.  But the bigger part was better writing.  The writers now just don't know how to write Benson drama without portraying her as a saint or a martyr, instead of as a real human being.  Not to mention it's the same thing, over and over.  There is more to her life than Noah, Show!  And there are more characters with lives to mine for drama.  Carisi.  Just sayin'.

[Xeliou66]

How was the ID fruit of the poisonous tree? I’m pretty good with the legal stuff but I didn’t get how that was tainted.

I’ve missed their recurring characters as well, last season was a treasure trove of returning characters, this season we’ve barely had any. I miss Buchanan as well, he was awesome!! 

I’m not looking forward to Rollins being back full time, I haven’t missed her at all since she’s been sidelined, and I love the Fin/Carisi duo, and I hope we continue to get a lot of them when Rollins is back full time.

[Fellaway]

36 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

How was the ID fruit of the poisonous tree? I’m pretty good with the legal stuff but I didn’t get how that was tainted.

The way they got a voice ID from her was by putting the guy they arrested in a voice line-up.  He wouldn't have been there for her to ID as her rapist if the police hadn't used a method to bring him in that the judge deemed illegal or improper.

36 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m not looking forward to Rollins being back full time, I haven’t missed her at all since she’s been sidelined, and I love the Fin/Carisi duo, and I hope we continue to get a lot of them when Rollins is back full time.

I'm always on the fence about Rollins.  There are times I like her, and she can be an interesting character.  But there are a lot of times I think she's a hateful human being, and I've wondered more than once over the seasons why she still has her shield.  I haven't really missed her, and I'm afraid she'll eat up screentime when she comes back to make up for her limited time in the front half of the season.  Mostly I just hope they give her (and everyone else) better writing.  The last couple seasons have been dire for her.  I mean, that she'd even consider getting together with Al again, after he cheated and when she doesn't even seem to be in love with him?  Yikes.  I loved it when she told Al she was having the baby and she didn't need anything from him.  That's the Rollins I can like and admire, not the drip who caves because he gave her flowers and spoke nicely to Jesse.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Fellaway

[tennisgurl]

This was pretty good, and I liked the focus on Peter and Ben Stone, which was a cool way to use that connection to the mothership. While him playing daddy to Noah was pretty meh, it did at least tie into the plot of the episode, and wasn't melodramatic and overly angsty. Instead we got our rather inevitable Golden State rapist story, which is basically tailor made to be an SVU story.

The case itself was weirdly easy to solve, especially the copy cat, who they caught in about five seconds. Which does make sense, as the guy was clearly not even close to smart or mentally all there, but I expected a bit more drama in the crime solving. 

Noah thinking that his dad "loved him and his now in heaven" and Olivia confirming it is SO going to blow up in her face. Someone will spill the beans on what a piece of shit his father was, or Olivia will have to tell him the truth eventually die to some drama with his backstory, and her lying is going to lead to some serious issues in their future relationship no matter what. I mean, there is no nice way to tell a kid that their dad was a rapist and a pimp and a general monster and his bio mom was a junkie who was killed by being gang raped and set on fire, but there has to be some medium to tell him as a kid,  between that and "dad was an awesome guy!" before he can handle what really happened!

I also liked the use of the genetics DNA test, as I think thats something that a lot of people are doing now, and something that a lot of people are worried about, the government getting information on people through their DNA. 

Pretty good episode, but not all that memorable to me,

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I have wondered, for real, about the legality of police using that to crack cases, but I've never seen anything brought up about that in the cases I've read about in the news.  So it was interesting to see it brought up here.  Liked that.  Not so much their continued portrayal of Carisi, like he never went to law school or passed the bar or he must've been a sub-par student because they always make him wrong on legal issues.  Stop it, Show.

That said, this ep had a decent amount of Carisi time, more than what I was expecting for what looked like a Stone ep.  And it was decent quality Carisi time, by post-Season 17 standards.  I liked that he was the one who made a connection with the niece and got the intel that broke the case.  (Ah, is that the sweet scent of Season 17, I smell?)  Any chance the niece is the girl they've been telling us Carisi will meet (and, presumably, date)?

It was unexpected to me too, but it was good to see more of Carisi. I thought this was going to be all about Stone. I also agree that they seem to use him as the foil most of the time. When that becomes very noticeable, it's a clear case of sloppy writing.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin & Carisi. The more we get of them in the investigation part of the show, the better the quality of the episode overall. Whenever they're on screen together without Benson or Rollins it's like I'm watching a different, better show, something like the old school SVU I consistently enjoyed so much. Loved Fin refusing to cuff fake Infinity and Carisi's little moment in reaction before going ahead and following his sergeant's lead. Also really enjoyed that they actually let them interrogate a perp.
Stone & Carisi. It was nice to see them working together, remembering Carisi's interest in the law. Plus I think Starisi has much more natural chemistry than BenStone. You'd think it wouldn't work so well since they are relatively similar actors and characters, but without forcing the UST or St. Benson worship they actually work better together than they do with Benson.
A competent treatment of legal issues. Yeah we could nitpick, but it was nice to see at least some awareness of actual law and how things might play out.
The defense attorneys. It's been really nice seeing them trying to reestablish the sense that there is a world outside of the squad in the last couple of years.
The writing. Even the bad soapy parts were well executed and they didn't sacrifice plausibility or characterization to make an ideological point and Benson wasn't doing everything herself. It was a pleasant surprise given Julie Martin getting a writing credit.

The Bad:
BenStoNoah. It was much better than it could have been, but it added nothing and I'm still not sure what they're getting at with his whole acting out plot. Was this supposed to be the payoff with the reveal that he has questions about his dad? And STFU about the olives Liv! And show why are we paying more attention to the continuity here than anywhere else?
BenStone. At least he kept his shirt on I guess and he had dinner with someone besides Liv.
It's a minor issue, but they missed yet another opportunity to throw in an easter egg for long time fans in an episode about the past. I freeze framed the sign out sheet they zoomed in on to show us Ben Stone's signature, and was hoping that maybe we would see Kincaid or another of the DA's we know, but other than Stone's other signatures I didn't see anything. There were all sorts of other ways they could have thrown in a reference, but I guess all the old hands are busy trying to launch the Hate Crimes spinoff?

Overall it was pretty good. They gave us a nice ensemble story for the COTW, and Mariska got her focus in a soapy subplot that was pretty much as harmless as it could have been. I wouldn't mind more like this followed by an announced final season where they try to wrap everything up in a dignified fashion.

Edited January 20, 2019 by wknt3

[dttruman]

22 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Mariska got her focus in a soapy subplot that was pretty much as harmless as it could have been.

I wonder if they are using this to set up something bigger down the road? Will it be another crazy relative or what?

How much extra time would they have gotten to add to the investigation if they took out the "Benoah" segments at the beginning and ending?  It just seemed like it was too easy to find the rapist as someone mentioned earlier.

Edited January 18, 2019 by dttruman

[dttruman]

7 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

It's a minor issue, but they missed yet another opportunity to throw in an easter egg for long time fans in an episode about the past. I freeze framed the sign out sheet they zoomed in on to show us Ben Stone's signature, and was hoping that maybe we would see Kincaid or another of the DA's we know, but other than Stone's other signatures I didn't see anything. There were all sorts of other ways they could have thrown in a reference,

I thought this would have been the perfect situation to bring in McCoy and kill two birds with one stone (forgive the pun). He could have given the 90's view or a first had  account of the crime and he could have told Pete what his father Ben was going through.

[TV Diva Queen]

They couldn’t find a real case from the original recipe to follow up on?  And I totally agree that McCoy should have been called in. Oh and Noah’s father loved him very very much. STFU Olivia. 

[illdoc]

15 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Oh joy Ben is playing daddy to Noah. I smell a romantic story for Olivia and Ben.

Ben? Back from the dead? You meant "Peter", Ben Stone's son.

[Monkeybball]

The EAR/ONS case is so effing fascinating, I don't know how they managed to make it into a snoozer. The guy's trajectory from a teenage B&E-er to a serial rapist to a rapist & murderer, and all over the state of California.  There could have been SO MUCH MORE focus on this guy.  I almost have been feeling like the episodes aren't long enough lately, which is weird, because they do seem to drag, but there is a lot of unnecessary scenes it seems.  And I don't care if Benson and Stone get together, whatever, just don't draw it out with a will they or won't they. It's been done too much.

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

How was the ID fruit of the poisonous tree? I’m pretty good with the legal stuff but I didn’t get how that was tainted.

I’ve missed their recurring characters as well, last season was a treasure trove of returning characters, this season we’ve barely had any. I miss Buchanan as well, he was awesome!! 

I’m not looking forward to Rollins being back full time, I haven’t missed her at all since she’s been sidelined, and I love the Fin/Carisi duo, and I hope we continue to get a lot of them when Rollins is back full time.

They wouldn't have been able to bring the guy in for the voice idea without first identifying him through the "poisonous" means.  

[DesertCyclist]

15 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Trying not to go off on a rant but I never understand why people do those DNA things.

I'm 51 and adopted, and I found my birth father, now deceased, through Ancestry about three months back through a DNA link to his half-sister.

[Sake614]

So now Stone and Benson are playing house? And he’s a surrogate father to Noah? Shoot me now,

[SuzieQ]

Agree with most of what's already been said, but surprised no one mentioned the first suspect coming out of the bathroom and Fin saying "I'm not cuffing him"  I laughed so freaking hard!

[Xeliou66]

I agree with those who mentioned McCoy, can we please get a mention of him at some point this season?! It would’ve been a perfect time to have Stone talk to him about the case since it was a major case and McCoy would’ve been an ADA during the time Infinity was striking. At least give us a reference to McCoy if we don’t see him onscreen.

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Agree with most of what's already been said, but surprised no one mentioned the first suspect coming out of the bathroom and Fin saying "I'm not cuffing him"  I laughed so freaking hard!

I forgot how humorous that was, thank you for pointing that out. That was the kind of wisecrack Lenny would have made on L&O.

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Monkeybball said:

The EAR/ONS case is so effing fascinating, I don't know how they managed to make it into a snoozer. The guy's trajectory from a teenage B&E-er to a serial rapist to a rapist & murderer, and all over the state of California.  There could have been SO MUCH MORE focus on this guy.  I almost have been feeling like the episodes aren't long enough lately, which is weird, because they do seem to drag, but there is a lot of unnecessary scenes it seems.

I agree about the investigation dragging. Pete Stone's reminiscing about his dad took up a little more time than it should have and a long with the Benson family gathering at the start and finish, took a lot of substance away from the investigation, IMO. Everything up to the arresting that copycat was O.K., but they should have saved the Pete Stone saga for another episode. It was compelling enough, but like MonkeyBall mentioned. It was unnecessary.

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Agree with most of what's already been said, but surprised no one mentioned the first suspect coming out of the bathroom and Fin saying "I'm not cuffing him"  I laughed so freaking hard!

I agree that it's a highlight which is why I mentioned it! :-)

13 hours ago, wknt3 said:

.Loved Fin refusing to cuff fake Infinity and Carisi's little moment in reaction before going ahead and following his sergeant's lead.

 

59 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree with those who mentioned McCoy, can we please get a mention of him at some point this season?! It would’ve been a perfect time to have Stone talk to him about the case since it was a major case and McCoy would’ve been an ADA during the time Infinity was striking. At least give us a reference to McCoy if we don’t see him onscreen.

I agree that it was a missed opportunity not to get a McCoy mention since I think an appearance is too much to ask for (if you were to dump Noah and add McCoy it would make for a great sweeps episode though!) Even if you think it would be too much looking backwards or take away the focus on Stone's family history to bring in McCoy why not use the golden opportunity of a huge case from back in the day to give those of us who who know the history a quick moment? I pointed out that it would have been a nice touch to have one of the signatures on the files be one of the old ADAs, but how hard would it have been to have Liv mentioned that Huang did a profile or find some way to have them come across one the name of one of the original recipe detectives in the file?

[Xeliou66]

Yeah they blew a major oppurtunity for more continuity/callbacks, they should’ve had a scene where Stone said he would go and talk to McCoy about the original case, or have names or familiar ADA’s (McCoy, Robinette, Kincaid) on the files. They haven’t done a very good job of giving us callbacks or references to prior characters this season, that’s why it was nice to see a familiar defense attorney in Kressler at least, he’s been around for a long time. 

On another note, did anyone else find it odd how Noah called Stone “coach” twice? I found that very strange.

[spunky]

I wasn't a fan of Peter Stone when he was on Chicago Justice , I'm still not a fan. Writers this whole every man is smitten with Olivia is old. I like Carisi's friendship with Stone, and wish they would use Carisi more. This case proved why people need to stop using these DNA tests, you don't know where your information is being stored.  The case was interesting for once.