All Episodes Discussion

[badgerwoman]

16 hours ago, Court said:

Did anyone watch this Tim/Becky case on Dateline? I'm curious of the impressions of the lawyer there as how she appeared on 48 Hours. 

She wasn't nearly as irritating but they didn't use as much of her as 48 hours did.  That helped.  At least dateline said she had other criminal law experience.

[Medicine Crow]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:17 PM, badgerwoman said:

She wasn't nearly as irritating but they didn't use as much of her as 48 hours did.  That helped.  At least dateline said she had other criminal law experience.

I just watched it last night & thought she was less than effective.  Question:  Was it ever mentioned where his kids were when he was killing their Mother??  Did he leave them alone?  He supposedly had custody of them at the time!!  I'm still scratching my head!!

[Enigma X]

Does anyone remember the name of the woman who murdered her husband, retired from her job where she handled federal funds (HOME program), after her retirement it was found that she was stealing from the government, and her and her daughters were living the highlife off the stolen funds? I may have the order of events wrong but this was a case on Dateline and other shows.

[Medicine Crow]

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Does anyone remember the name of the woman who murdered her husband, retired from her job where she handled federal funds (HOME program), after her retirement it was found that she was stealing from the government, and her and her daughters were living the highlife off the stolen funds? I may have the order of events wrong but this was a case on Dateline and other shows.

Was is Lori Isenberg?

4 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

Was it Lori Isenberg?

Oops.

[Enigma X]

1 hour ago, Medicine Crow said:

Was is Lori Isenberg?

Yes. Thank you.

[UsernameFatigue]

I was hoping someone might have commented on The Mystery at Eagle Creek. I remember this case from several years ago so almost didn't watch. Wow, Nichols is even creepier than I remembered. Not to mention narcissistic, arrogant, etc. I almost laughed when his answer to one of Peter's questions was that anyone with a brain cell would know the answer to the question, then almost in the next breath said that Rhonda had committed suicide several times before. I loved Peter correcting him that he meant almost committed suicide several times before.

In any case I have no doubt that he killed Rhonda. Personally though, you would never get me on a trail like that. I don't think even if I wasn't afraid of heights, you would get me on a trail that narrow with nothing but a steep drop on one side and a rock face on the other.

I had forgotten about his sleeping with Rhonda's underage sister, don't think I knew about the pics sent to the 13 year old. Thank goodness the courts terminated his parental rights. He hinted at wanting to commit suicide. I can't imagine anyone would care. Anyone. 

[Annber03]

Oh, god, yeah, that episode. That guy was a piece of work. So hideously creepy. I liked how, once the investigators realized he was going to take his new girlfriend to the same path where he'd taken Rhonda, they were keeping close watch the whole time and continuing to work on building their case, 'cause they were like, "Yeeeeeeeeeeah, we need to get her away from him." 

[nora1992]

First, 20/20 did this case.  A month ago, Dateline profiled it.  What can 48 Hours show in 60 minutes that the other 2 didn’t show in 120?  

[sempervivum]

'Death at the Front Door' murder of Heidi Firkus in St. Paul, MN. The male lawyers who Nick (the murderer/husband) had representing him couldn't seem to understand why he would kill his wife 'just because' he was ashamed of his financial failures. They didn't see that as a viable motive!  I think female lawyers would have totally got it,and might have worked harder to prove that Heidi knew about the foreclosure.

I was disappointed that the police didn't unearth where he spent the money; the jury would have taken 5 minutes to find him guilty instead of 5 hours. Of course it was 2010 and they might just not have had the amount of cyber evidence they could find today.

 

[Annber03]

Yeah, finances are always one of the most common motives for murder, and in this case, even if Heidi knew about the foreclosure, if she started to confront him about it or get on him about it, or something of that sort, I mean...it's not exactly much of a leap to go from that to killing your wife.

Plus, the story about how she died is just too weird. A burglar breaks into a home at 6:30 in the morning on a Sunday, when the homeowners will likely be home (which, as one of the investigators pointed out, is not how most burglars prefer to operate), they get spooked by the couple, and they shoot and kill her...but he only gets shot in the leg? They don't at least try for a kill shot to get rid of their remaining witness? 

To say nothing of how most husbands are not going to let their wives leave their bedroom if they suspect a burglar is in the house, let alone go ahead of them down the stairs to investigate. And a husband carrying a gun, like Nick was? In my experience with those kinds of stories, those guys are often going to be the ones going in literally guns a-blazin'. They're "the man of the house", after all, they've got the weapon, they're gonna protect their home and their wife, stand your ground, and all that. 

It just doesn't make sense. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Annber03

[pdlinda]

20 hours ago, nora1992 said:

First, 20/20 did this case.  A month ago, Dateline profiled it.  What can 48 Hours show in 60 minutes that the other 2 didn’t show in 120?  

What in ALL TARNATION qualifies THIS CASE for coverage on ALL 3 true crime shows most of us watch each week?  

I'm noticing that this season all we're getting are REPEATS, variations of which each show highlights...examples being:  MURDAUGH, L.I. SERIAL KILLER, AZ RUNAWAY GIRL WITH SUSPICIOUS FATHER AND NO BODY, case on tonight about Minnesota murder of Heidi.

I'm thinking that the budgets for these shows may be dwindling.  I know the kids don't watch cable/networks.  Only stream.  Maybe these shows are not available streaming???  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

Maybe these shows are not available streaming???  

48 Hours is on Paramount Plus. 

[pdlinda]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

48 Hours is on Paramount Plus. 

Maybe the other two, as well.  

Thinking about it, maybe the principals in each case are easier to interview because they already have experience appearing "on camera" and maybe the locations for the various cases are easier to film due to their appearances on the other shows?  

The reason I'm referring to these aspects of this OBVIOUS redundancy is because I ALSO notice that all 3 shows have come to rely heavily on:  cases where they solve cold cases through the field of FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGY and the use of "bloggers" covering the cases who are well versed in appearing on camera and offering interesting features they have uncovered.  In other words, the producers of the 3 shows have a lot of their "work" already provided by these interested individuals.  

My preference would be for the staffs of these vintage true-crime shows to roll up their sleeves a little more and ferret out some great new crime stories to interest the audience that awaits their episodes each week!

[txhorns79]

54 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

Thinking about it, maybe the principals in each case are easier to interview because they already have experience appearing "on camera" and maybe the locations for the various cases are easier to film due to their appearances on the other shows?  

I think you are right that it can appear redundant when these true crime shows all cover the same case.  Having said that, I would defend them a bit in that the shows do not share their programming choices with shows on other networks, so they have no idea if 20/20 or someone else is going to cover a particular case

 

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

To say nothing of how most husbands are not going to let their wives leave their bedroom if they suspect a burglar is in the house, let alone go ahead of them down the stairs to investigate. And a husband carrying a gun, like Nick was? In my experience with those kinds of stories, those guys are often going to be the ones going in literally guns a-blazin'. They're "the man of the house", after all, they've got the weapon, they're gonna protect their home and their wife, stand your ground, and all that. 

I mean, how much of that is gender stereotypes as presented through pop culture versus real life?  In reality, if there is a prowler in your home, I'd think it would be rather dangerous to just leave your spouse behind while you investigate.  The smart thing to do for both people is to exit the house and seek help, if possible, or barricade your door and call the police immediately while sheltering in place.        

[Annber03]

True. I was just thinking about it being more like, if they were in their room - the husband might be like, "Just stay here" and hand her the phone while he goes to investigate. 

But yeah, hell, they also could've barricaded the bedroom door and then tried to escape through their bedroom window or something ,too. Still risky in its own right, but at least they could've gotten a chance to get outside and go to a neighbor for help. 

[sempervivum]

I didn't realize this case had been covered by the other two, but I don't really go out of my way to watch true crime stuff. It's pretty much something I only do on Saturday nights if there's nothing on PBS or I'm too lazy to look for something on streaming.

Anyway, in the end, 'It's always the husband, it's always the husband, it's always the husband', per Lt. Provenza.

[oliviabenson]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:52 PM, pdlinda said:

What in ALL TARNATION qualifies THIS CASE for coverage on ALL 3 true crime shows most of us watch each week?  

I'm noticing that this season all we're getting are REPEATS, variations of which each show highlights...examples being:  MURDAUGH, L.I. SERIAL KILLER, AZ RUNAWAY GIRL WITH SUSPICIOUS FATHER AND NO BODY, case on tonight about Minnesota murder of Heidi.

I'm thinking that the budgets for these shows may be dwindling.  I know the kids don't watch cable/networks.  Only stream.  Maybe these shows are not available streaming???  

20/20 is on hulu

dateline is on peacock 

[12catcrazy]

Does anybody watch 48 Hours any more?  This past episode was about the LA Therapist who had been engaged to Drew Carey and murdered by an obsessed ex-boyfriend (who she hadn't seen in 10 years, and who was "triggered" when he saw her at an event. 

[patty1h]

It is programmed into my DVR so I get every episode but most of these crime shows are recycling stories so I end up skipping or deleting episodes.  There seems to be a lack of new material for these shows.

For example, I've seen the story about Amie Hardwick numerous times and last week they covered the story about the female bike racer who was murdered - that case has bounced around every show at least once already.   Another episode to delete.   

[TVbitch]

I record it every week, and if it is a case I am already familiar with, I just scan it to see if there is any additional info. The Amie Hardwick one had the poor roommate's reactions that night. Mind bogging that the murderer tried to claim that he was just there to shoot the breeze when she attacked him. 

20/20 actually had an interesting case last Friday that I was not at all famililiar with. 

[nora1992]

Maybe it’s my own experience of in-laws, but I can see reasonable doubt in the case against Kouri Richins.  If the glass the allegedly-fentanyl-laced drink was served in didn’t test positive for the drug, maybe it did come from something he took.  And when he spent 4-5 months on hunting trips, were any of the kids with him?  This is my own perspective, but I wouldn’t gush about how good a father any man was if he spends 1/3 of the year away from his kids for recreational purposes.  Men who are deployed/assigned are exceptions; hunting antelope on the tundra are not the same.

There are Betsy Faria vibes here.

[badgerwoman]

3 hours ago, nora1992 said:

Maybe it’s my own experience of in-laws, but I can see reasonable doubt in the case against Kouri Richins.  If the glass the allegedly-fentanyl-laced drink was served in didn’t test positive for the drug, maybe it did come from something he took.  And when he spent 4-5 months on hunting trips, were any of the kids with him?  This is my own perspective, but I wouldn’t gush about how good a father any man was if he spends 1/3 of the year away from his kids for recreational purposes.  Men who are deployed/assigned are exceptions; hunting antelope on the tundra are not the same.

There are Betsy Faria vibes here.

I am really curious on how this plays out on trial because there's  reasonable doubt here.   and the whole hunting 4 to 5 months a year is just crazy.  You aren't a good parent if you are not present that much!

 

 

[TVbitch]

I think she probably did it. The letter was very damning. It was clearly not "fiction" for a book she is writing. 🙄 I can see that there is reasonable doubt though. Seems it would be pretty easy to OD your spouse and just claim they took drugs that must have been laced with it. 

[seasons]

So is Natalie going to be hosting and reporting all the episodes now? I don’t necessarily mind once in a while , but I like the other reporters and would hope for a rotation. 

[Chalby]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:00 PM, TVbitch said:

I think she probably did it. The letter was very damning. It was clearly not "fiction" for a book she is writing. 🙄 I can see that there is reasonable doubt though. Seems it would be pretty easy to OD your spouse and just claim they took drugs that must have been laced with it. 

I agree that by saying the paper was a book, makes her out to be a liar. However, the bits I could read sounded like she wanted her brother to recall every time hubby spoke about doing or seeking out drugs. Maybe brother did mention something years ago that she's just remembering? I'm torn with her case. It's 50/50 for me. I need forensic proof, and not just a drink that no one bothered to test.

[TVbitch]

10 hours ago, Chalby said:

the bits I could read

I froze the letter every time they showed it and was able to read quite a bit. She was definitely trying to get the mother to probe the brother to see if he would be willing to come forth with a made up story that she was providing about the husband and drugs and Mexico. She probably never sent it cuz she knew they would not do it. 

[Realitystarr]

The update on the Semintelli case is new to me so I rewatched their original in 2019 which is everything they are showing again in this update.

I see nothing sexy about Robert Baker and the fact he went to prison  years ago for  having sex with a 14 year old would be a big red flag. Wonder if Monica knew about that.

 

[TVbitch]

The case was new to me too. 48 Hours is very hit or miss. They almost always give away the entire case in the opening minutes, so there is zero suspense. And they often present an espisode like this right before the defendant goes to trial. Why not wait until April so so they can give us the conclusion?

[12catcrazy]

Ok, so did anybody watch the case about Jane Dorotik?  This is the first that I've seen anything about this case (I wasn't watching true crime TV 20 years ago).  From what they showed here, it appears that she became the victim of bad police work.  

[sempervivum]

'Autopsy of the Mind' last night re. the Kristen Trickle murder in 2019 in Oklahoma.

The only thing interesting about this was the donkey-like refusal of the coroner to change his verdict from suicide to murder. He claimed to Maureen that the PD and DA hadn't kept him informed about the evidence against the husband. I find it hard to believe that the DA didn't ask him to change the verdict in the light of the new evidence about the husband having a girl on the side and having checked up on how much insurance he'd get if she died.  

eta that the whole 'random psychologist opines on whether Kristen was suicidal'/ psych autopsy aspect of this was pretty unconvincing.

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by sempervivum

[TVbitch]

Yeah, I don't know how I feel about the post-death psychologist. I mean, if I was murdered in this manner, sure, all my friends and family know me well enough to say with certainty, no way she killed herself. But beyond that, all of them would probably describe me very differently. 

[Annber03]

I kept being a little bothered by the way Kristen's loved ones kept talking about why they were so certain she wouldn't commit suicide. They kept going on about how she wasn't a "runner", that she was always smiling in her pictures, things like that, and it just felt kind of...judgmental, in a way? Like, if I were someone who'd had a history of feeling suicidal, I'd be al ittle put off by the assumptions they seemed to make about people who found themselves in that mindset. 

Also, just because people smile in their photos doesn't mean they can't be suicidal. I get why it'd be hard for people to imagine a family member could kill themselves, of course - even if one does understand why someone might do something like that, it's still a hard thought to deal with in and of itself. But I feel like so many people have a very simplistic view of how suicidal people tend to act and look. 

All of that being said, however, yeah, it was also pretty obvious early on that this wasn't a suicide. The method of death struck me odd right off the bat, too - women can and do shoot themselves to death, definitely, but the whole layout of that particular scene just looked so weird. And then her husband's behavior in the aftermath certainly did him no favors, either. It is surprising to me when investigators will just automatically rule a scene a suicide like that - in some cases where it's very clear that's what it is, sure, of course, that makes sense, but in a case like this, I would think they'd want to hold off on that kind of conclusion until they did a little more examination of the scene and the entire situation and whatnot. 

Edited April 28 by Annber03

[pdlinda]

57 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And then her husband's behavior in the aftermath certainly did him no favors, either.

I agree with you on that.  Also, lying about her life insurance,his controlling nature being challenged by her later emails and his emotional infidelity with the online gal. 

When I did criminal defense work I frequently retained a forensic psych to assess the defendant's culpability (for non-violent crimes) in light of his/her background circumstances. 

However, I never experienced that type of assessment being done by the defense on a dead victim and can't imagine it being any more effective than it was in this case. 

As an aside, the cost of doing that type of forensic psych evaluation is substantial.

[sempervivum]

Actually, what I found most convincing about the friends/family's certainty that it wasn't suicide was the fact that Kristen-who was extremely modest- was in her undies when found. 

[Angeltoes]

23 hours ago, pdlinda said:

his emotional infidelity with the online gal

Mr. Angeltoes and I agreed that she was probably not real and the husband was being catfished.

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

Mr. Angeltoes and I agreed that she was probably not real and the husband was being catfished.

I don't exactly know why but I found that conclusion hilarious...I can't stop laughing...what a DOOFUS he was (just looking at his pajamas was enough to convince me he was a rube). 

Also, when I saw their house (maybe a rental?) it didn't comport with what I know about salary-levels of  high-level intelligence operatives who have foreign duty assignments.  NOOOOO....I thought they would be living in a much more upscale setting and she wouldn't be working at WalMart😆

[TVbitch]

Wow, that woman's family really did not like her. I mean, sobbing at the verdict?! Between Dateline, 20/20 and this show, it seems like being murdered by a partner/spouse/ex is a major cause of death for women. 

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Wow, that woman's family really did not like her. I mean, sobbing at the verdict?! Between Dateline, 20/20 and this show, it seems like being murdered by a partner/spouse/ex is a major cause of death for women. 

It IS!!  Domestic Violence (including murder) is a MAJOR FELONY OFFENSE throughout the Country.  The precipitating events usually involve issues around sex and $$$.  In most cases, the women do not have the financial means to leave the marriage (relationship) and start over, especially with children.

 

 

[Ohmo]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:33 PM, Annber03 said:

Also, just because people smile in their photos doesn't mean they can't be suicidal. I get why it'd be hard for people to imagine a family member could kill themselves, of course - even if one does understand why someone might do something like that, it's still a hard thought to deal with in and of itself. But I feel like so many people have a very simplistic view of how suicidal people tend to act and look. 

Yes, but the use of dying by suicide to cover up a murder is also horrifying.  We've seen spouses as recently as Brian Fannion claim that their spouse died by suicide.  Suicide is a complex issue that doesn't always follow a logical, linear path, but its use to cover for murder and blame the deceased person is scary.

[LakeGal]

48 Hours tonight

Season 36 finale: When the wife of a fertility doctor is found dead, evidence points to a sinister demise.

[ASpring1900]

1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

48 Hours tonight

Season 36 finale: When the wife of a fertility doctor is found dead, evidence points to a sinister demise.

I will pass-- Dateline or 20/20 just did this case either last week or the previous week!

[UsernameFatigue]

On 5/18/2024 at 8:23 AM, AManfred said:

I will pass-- Dateline or 20/20 just did this case either last week or the previous week!

I did watch it, as with 48 Hours only being an hour long I don't find is as much of a slog as Dateline and 20/20 can sometimes be. I find it interesting to see the differences presented when it is covered by two shows. 

What I found interesting in this episode was the interview with three of the jurors. I don't remember, but did the Dateline version make it clear that hubby said that he found his wife on the stairs as opposed to the bottom of the stairs? For some reason I thought she was at the bottom of the stairs on the floor when he found her.

In any case she wasn't, she was on the stairs. The defense of course had put forth the theory that Susann was strangled by the dogs pulling at the scarf around her neck. One of the jurors said that he thought that was ridiculous because he has dogs the the same size, and there is no way with their nails that they would be able to get traction on slippery wooden stairs to pull on a scarf. Another juror said that there were no punctures in the scarf which would be there if a dog(s) was pulling on it. I was quite impressed by the jurors, as it doesn't seem those things were pointed out by the prosecution, but rather deduced by the jurors. 

 

[TVbitch]

I didn't get that she was found ON the stairs from Dateline either. Maybe he actually dumped her down the stairs after killing her.

I also don't remember Dateline showing how the doctor got a hair transplant and started posting pics of himself trying to cool right after her death.

Also the son saying the dad was not injured working on the car. And the daughter saying she had cleaned up and changed her room around to be nice for her mom, so she surely would have noticed if that blood was already there. 

Excellent jurors!

[12catcrazy]

Anybody still watching "48 Hours"?  Last night was an update on the "Black Swan" (rolling eyes here because the murderer was once a 3rd tier ballet dancer) case and it brought to mind a saying that might have been from the much missed Ann Landers: The rocks in his head match the holes in hers.  

I think that the jury got this one right.  

[pdlinda]

21 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

The rocks in his head match the holes in hers.  

Yes, I watched it and agree with the characterization of both of these dysfunctional characters.

The WORST part of their relationship was her insistence on having a child.  Now, the little girl is being raised by her mother, not an enviable situation for mom to be in, for sure. 

Hope mom is financially able to raise the little girl without putting a strain on her budget. After paying for her lawyer, not sure Ashley has the resources to help mom out

Also, it can be expensive having a loved one in prison.  There are numerous "perks" regarding personal items and commissary (food) that are costly.  Also, the phone bills between family and inmate can add up.  There is no cash in this system.  Family deposits $$ in inmate acct and inmate may only buy items they need or want.

Also hope that the little girl is allowed to see her mother in prison while getting the counseling she will likely need FOR LIFE.  I worked in criminal defense for many years and can say with certainty that in most prisons throughout the U.S. a LOT of resources are expended to provide inmates with very congenial surroundings when the kids come to visit.  Of course, as some may not know, EVERYTHING is monitored during prison visits so the child will be safe.

[12catcrazy]

22 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Yes, I watched it and agree with the characterization of both of these dysfunctional characters.

The WORST part of their relationship was her insistence on having a child.  Now, the little girl is being raised by her mother, not an enviable situation for mom to be in, for sure. 

 

She would have been better to get a sperm donor.  My guess is that when he confronted her he said something along the lines of he was going to take the child away from her and she had handy access to the gun and ka-boom.   Now the child doesn't have either parent.   My guess is that she is going to be out of jail in five years though.  

[TVbitch]

I also think she will out of jail in no time and there will be a line of men waiting to date her. The two of them seemed to ingnite the crazy in each other. 

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

My guess is that she is going to be out of jail in five years though.  

I would agree with you on that conclusion. 

From my experience, her crime is  "unremarkable."  There are no aggravating circumstances.  Her victim was an adult. 

If she behaves herself in prison, they could very easily release her early.  It happens, administratively, all the time.

[TVbitch]

Yikes. Glad both members of the throuple got put away for a long, long time. I don't know what in God's name anyone was thinking in this episode, but with all the alcohol involved it seemed like a powder keg that even the victim knew was about to go off. 

[Madding crowd]

This episode disturbed me and I watch true crime all the time! This woman thought they might kill her then went anyway. That guy wasn’t anything special! The way the other woman casually talked him raping her and beating her with a walking stick and curtain rod was chilling. Then she thought she would be ok the next morning? The ME said she looked like she was in a horrific accident.