Last Tango In Halifax - General Discussion

[SonofaBiscuit]

Sarah Lancashire was in a fantastic series called All the Small Things.  After her husband, the director of the church choir, leaves her for a younger woman, she starts up her own church choir where her autistic son is a member.  While rehearsing, one of the young guys from the church begins to have feelings for Sarah Lancashire's character.  The program is so named because one of the songs that the choir performs is Blink-182's "All the Small Things."  You can find clips online...such an entertaining show and a pleasant surprise.

[Milz]

They said Caroline's salary is supposed to be in six figures, and that's pounds, not dollars. 

 

But was it like that when they bought the house?

 

How is joint property handled in the UK? In the US, any property acquired during the marriage is "jointly owned" unless it's inherited. Ex, I inherited Grandma's ring after Mr. Milz and I were married, but that ring isn't joint property because Grandma gave it to me. But the house we bought after we were married is joint property----so is the furniture, the dishes, etc.

[dustylil]

I don't believe  old people have to be sweet all the time either. But I don't think it is too much to expect Celia to keep a civil tongue in her head. She is beginning to near Arthur Spooner territory.

[MrsMcGoofy]

Hi everyone. I'm dipping my toes in this thread, and want you all to know that I deeply enjoy your insights and thoughtful posts -- great food-for-thought!

 

I agree with you all about Celia. Gossips like her have a mean streak, and she'd better watch it while she's nurturing her new marriage or she could lose all those new relationships. What does she get out of being the town crier?

 

I too am baffled as to why Gillian told her harrowing tale to John (of all people!) or to anyone else, for that matter. What I really want to know if this: Why is her story and Alan's story conflicting? That means one of them is lying. Watching someone die and not calling an ambulance and not doing everything possible to save him is bad enough,  but in Alan's version, she bludgeoned the guy. That's cold blooded murder, no matter what her original intentions. Why do their versions differ? Who's right, who's lying and why are they lying? Also, if he was bludgeoned, wouldn't the police immediately investigate his death as a murder? I'm so confused? Any ideas?

[Milz]

Eddie was killed in a log-splitter. I'm presuming that any head injuries he got from Gillian bludgeoning him would appear like injuries a log splitter would cause.

 

Another observation.

 

Celia and Alan toast each other by mentioning old sitcoms: To the Manor Born, The Good Life, and Til Death Do Us Part. In the US, PBS aired To the Manor Born. PBS aired The Good Life as Good Neighbors. Til Death Do Us Part, I don't think was ever aired on PBS, but in the US a sitcom based on it was aired on CBS: it was called All in the Family.

 

It also looks like that toast described their situations: Caroline with To the Manor Born (upper class) and Gillian with The Good Life (self-sufficiency middle class working a farm in their backyard). If All in the Family was anything like Till Death Do Us Part, then there's an argumentative bigot Archie (Celia?) and a gentle, but dense Edith (Alan?) in the family too.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Milz

[Brattinella]

Wow I just looked up 'log-splitter'.  I thought it was an axe, it actually is a hydraulic piece of machinery that works VERY SLOWLY to split a log.  What an horrific method of suicide!

[maraleia]

Sad news inspires Alan and Celia to have another wedding ceremony attended by all of their family and friends. Caroline whisks Kate off on a romantic weekend, but a disagreement threatens to end the relationship. Just as Gillian and Robbie are back on friendlier terms, a revelation from Judith changes everything.

[MrsMcGoofy]

Milz: The log-splitter suicide attempt still baffles, because I'm guessing the wounds would be long smashed up skull gashes (sorry for the gross imagery), but hitting him with a block of wood would cause an indentation of some sort. So, even if the police understood it was suicide, they'd still have to investigate the type of wounds and the timing of the wounds and ultimate death. I see nothing but trouble for Gillian here after the forensic results. So, why was there no complete investigation? Wouldn't the whole incident make the police terribly suspicious? By the way, I loved your sitcom observations. How apt!

 

Brattinella: I looked up some Google images of log-splitters and had to cover my eyes. Just the thought brings shudders!

 

SonofaBiscuit: I agree with everything you (and others) said about Celia. She's a real sanctimonious shit stirrer and I fear for that new blended family as long as she tries to steer the ship. Some people just have to cause trouble. Sad that!

Edited July 23, 2014 by MrsMcGoofy

[Quilt Fairy]

Count me in with those who assumed that a log-splitter involved some sort of axe or sharp blade. The pictures I pulled up with a casual search have me very confused. How would you go about committing suicide with one of those - and then not quite finish the job? Why would you think it's the right tool for the job? Is it possible that they have something more old-fashioned on the farm? It's making me think that Gillian may be responsible for Eddie's death and she was going to turn it into an accident, i.e., "Look, Eddie tripped and got his head jammed into the log splitter. While it was on." This is turning into a very dark season.

 

Another thing that bothers me is Raff and his girlfriend's pregnancy. Gillian laid the whole thing on Alan as if he's the only man Raff could talk to, and he wasn't there when Raff needed him. But Raff also has his Uncle Robbie, with whom he was close enough to move in with for a short time. And although you can see he's very close to his grandfather, his uncle might be a better choice to go to with a problem like a pregnant girlfriend.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Quilt Fairy

[peeayebee]

I'm with you on being confused as to how one would commit suicide (or attempt to) using a log-splitter. I can't remember -- Was he drunk at the time? And why did he want to kill himself? If he was depressed and drunk, I can imagine him seeing the log splitter, or even using it at the time, and spur of the moment trying to kill himself.

 

Another thing that bothers me is Raff and his girlfriend's pregnancy. Gillian laid the whole thing on Alan as if he's the only man Raff could talk to, and he wasn't there when Raff needed him. But Raff also has his Uncle Robbie, with whom he was close enough to move in with for a short time.

Maybe Gillian was also subconsciously trying to pull her dad back into their lives. She's unhappy with his moving out and leaving her.

[Brattinella]

I would guess that maybe he pulled away at the last second re: the log-splitter.  That would certainly be a flinch-worthy moment!  Eesh!  It reminds me of 'The Fly" movie, where he crushed his head in the press.  That would REALLY take a determined person to attempt!

[dcalley]

OK, I've just spent the last several minutes watching different log splitting videos on Youtube. Jesus.

 

Oh my God, Celia, you can't just tell other people's abortion stories. "I didn't even know she knew Robbie then!" How does she still not get it?

 

Gillian unloading everything to prime enabler/biggest gossip on earth John

John and Celia have something in common! No wonder she wanted to read his draft!

 

What I'm getting is...that Alan is afraid that there was no suicide attempt and Gillian out and out murdered Eddie.

Yes, though it is hard to reconcile this with how close he was to her.

 

Alan's "in your face" moment with Gillian

The captioning at the end of this was "light music," which was a bad job, I thought. I don't usually watch with it on but I'd been snacking on tortilla chips (noisy!).

[dcalley]

They also talk about a movie she made in 2003 with Daniel Craig where they have sex. I've put it in my Netflix queue.

!! Please report back.

[peeayebee]

Just for you, I've put it at the top of my queue.

[Quilt Fairy]

Was he drunk at the time? And why did he want to kill himself? If he was depressed and drunk, I can imagine him seeing the log splitter, or even using it at the time, and spur of the moment trying to kill himself...

 

I don't think they've ever said why he would be attempting suicide, although Gillian has said he was a heavy drinker. But there must have been a legitimate reason to claim it was a suicide attempt if the police closed the investigation.

[Ketzel]

I am profoundly glad that Kate finally faced up to what was really happening (or, more to the point, not happening) between her and Caroline and called it quits. I really hope she doesn't change her mind.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ketzel

[LittleIggy]

What were those terms Gillian used to describe the school her dad and Maurice went to as opposed to where Celia went?

Alan was sweet talking to William. However, I have to say that if he always wore his hair like that, no wonder he got picked on! ;-p

[LittleIggy]

!! Please report back.

I've seen that movie! "The Mother." Worth seeing. BTW, Derek Jacobi and Daniel Craig played lovers in "Love is the Devil." Wonder if Derek and Anne compared notes?

I just read about Jacobi's fall. How horrible and painful.

Actually I came to this thread to post a link to an interview with Anne Reid from a few days ago. It's a BBC Radio show called Desert Island Discs where the interviewee has chosen music to bring along if stranded on a desert island. I like a lot of the music Reid chose. Anyway, she also talks about her career and so forth. Checking IMDB, I discovered that she was a voice in a Wallace & Grommit short, A Close Shave. I've always loved

Was she Wendolene? I loved how she said,"Goodbye, chuck!" Wallace had found his perfect mate, but she was allergic to cheese! Edited July 21, 2014 by LittleIggy

[dcalley]

I've seen that movie! "The Mother." Worth seeing. BTW, Derek Jacobi and Daniel Craig played lovers in "Love is the Devil." Wonder if Derek and Anne compared notes?

How funny! Guess I'll add the former to my queue. Is the latter one also worth seeing?

 

Not too long ago I saw Anne Reid in Cemetery Junction. She looked so different from Last Tango that it was only her voice that I recognized and it finally clicked who she was. It's a small part. She sits around being a racist grandma if I recall correctly. It was all right.

[dcalley]

Something like boardknocker for her dad? Celia used some version of "muck" again. She used it a lot last week, too.

[Brattinella]

Yay, Kate finally got it!

[Luckylyn]

I felt so bad for Kate when I realized Caroline booked separate rooms.  How does Caroline expect Kate to sell her house to move in with her if she can't even openly share a hotel room while on vacation where no one knows them? The fact is Caroline didn't have the guts to just admit that she doesn't want a baby and instead played along with Kate while hoping to either manipulate it her out of it or just cross her fingers no pregnancy or a miscarriage happened.   The relationship was always too one sided with devoted Kate contorting herself to fit into Caroline's life with Caroline enjoying Kate's company while being unwilling to inconvenience herself on Kate's behalf.  It's great Kate realized and called her on it  Still I like Caroline even with her flaws and hope she finds happiness.

 

Alan's comment about how he'd be happy if he never set foot on Gillian's farm again was really jarring.  His coldness towards his daughter was not there in season 1.  Gillian was fine with Alan when he didn't have Celia but now that he's got a new family he's happy to discard Gillian?  I get him being frustrated because Gillian consistently makes impulsive stupid decisions.  Still, I don't buy that he's been troubled by Gillian since her husband died because he never showed that and the writing didn't convey that.

[Fishy]

Everytime I see Caroline I want to cut her bangs and push her hair away from her face!!!

 

My feeling about Alan's comments about Gillian just reveal how much he has been feeling but not saying and putting up with.  He said he never thought he would be happy again and when he found Celia he found a happiness he never thought he would so perhaps that's why he's happy to be away from Gillian and her drama.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Fishy

[SonofaBiscuit]

To me, it feels like this whole business with Alan thinking that Gillian may have actually killed Eddie feels like a retcon to create a rift between the two.  When it was spoken about in the first season, all I recall is that Robbie thought maybe it wasn't suicide but I don't recall Alan having any doubts.  Please correct me if I am wrong, though, since I think I saw the first season over a year ago. 

 

I figured that Caroline was going to have a freak-out over one of her sons getting beat up and the other getting drunk, but I guess she was too distraught over Kate.  I'm not sure I'd be asking Celia and Alan to watch the kids again, though (not that the mugging was their fault).  Caroline and John sure have raised some angry boys.

 

I had to laugh at Celia "gently" breaking the news about Maurice.  "Alan sit down.  Maurice is dead."  Geez, Gillian could have done that over the phone. 

[Milz]

Something tells me that Kate will take Caroline back, even though it's really obvious Caroline is using her. Not saying Caroline doesn't have some feelings for Kate but she's using Kate.

 

lol @ Calamity Jane! 

[Brattinella]

I LOVE Calamity Jane!  That is now her name forevermore.

[AllAboutMBTV]

Alan's eulogy of Morris was lovely, both the simple writing and Jacobi's delivery of it. My eyes may have been leaking. Is it wrong that I considered winding it back and writing it down for possible future use? I didn't, because I'm not a completely horrible person.

 

Oy, these people and their inability to keep their damn mouths shut. Still, if they did there would be no show, and I would miss the performances and the production values. Please book me a room at that swank hotel. A double room, please, *Caroline.*

[dcalley]

Alan's comment about how he'd be happy if he never set foot on Gillian's farm again was really jarring.

Ouch, I missed that.

 

I had to laugh at Celia "gently" breaking the news about Maurice.  "Alan sit down.  Maurice is dead."  Geez, Gillian could have done that over the phone. 

I know, and Celia is the one who knows about how fragile his health is!

[proserpina65]

Alan's comment about how he'd be happy if he never set foot on Gillian's farm again was really jarring.  His coldness towards his daughter was not there in season 1.

I've started to wonder if the show's gotten all new writers since the first season, because the entire dynamic of this relationship, and a good bit of the backstory, has changed radically.  It's like they've forgotten everything they told us about Gillian and her marriage in season one.

 

To me, it feels like this whole business with Alan thinking that Gillian may have actually killed Eddie feels like a retcon to create a rift between the two.

 

Exactly.

[QuinnM]

 

Alan's comment about how he'd be happy if he never set foot on Gillian's farm again was really jarring.

Ouch, I missed that.

 

No he said the barn not farm.  That is where the incident happened.  I think if her husband put his head in a log splitter that her hitting him with a log would be like a mercy killing.  But the whole thing really creeps me out.  I doubt I'd want to be within 100 miles of the log splitter.

[LittleIggy]

"Love is the Devil" is worth seeing. It's about the modern artist Francis Bacon and his lover who literally fell through the roof into his bed. Unfortunately, the copy I watched didn't have subtitles, and some of the Brit accents were hard to follow.

[LittleIggy]

Add me to people finding Alan's attitude toward Gillian at odds with his in season 1. Now he thinks she is a murderer? WTF!

[whatsatool]

Actually he never wants to set foot in her barn not her farm.

 

I love Celia and Alan, and Alan's friends but I must say Gillian seemed to be less odious. One minute she is channeling Dorothy Parker, the other a bad western accent.  Very good job.

 

Is Caroline bi?  

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention something in my first post.  I didn't like how Alan told Celia that Eddie was an alcoholic and an abuser, but he supposed it wasn't Eddie's fault because he grew up in "care" (like foster care or an orphanage or something, is what I'm assuming).  You would think that Alan would have a little more sympathy for the situation that Gillian found herself in, but I guess not.

[QuinnM]

Add me to people finding Alan's attitude toward Gillian at odds with his in season 1. Now he thinks she is a murderer? WTF!/

He thinks that because that is what Gillian says happened. She's said it a couple of times now. Each time with more detail. I figure she tells Carolyn next week based on the previews. This isn't something he thinks it's something he believes. She said he put his head in the log splitter but was still alive. She hit him with a log and he died. So I don't think Alan is leaping to a conclusion.

[dcalley]

No he said the barn not farm.  That is where the incident happened. ... I doubt I'd want to be within 100 miles of the log splitter.

That makes more sense. And I bet she still has the same log splitter because it probably still worked and she hasn't got the money to buy a new one just for the sake of getting a new one. It would be creepy to be around it, even if there weren't all these questions as to what exactly happened.

 

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention something in my first post.  I didn't like how Alan told Celia that Eddie was an alcoholic and an abuser, but he supposed it wasn't Eddie's fault because he grew up in "care" (like foster care or an orphanage or something, is what I'm assuming).

Yeah, someone--maybe Gillian--said Robbie and Eddie only had each other.

 

Add me to people finding Alan's attitude toward Gillian at odds with his in season 1. Now he thinks she is a murderer? WTF!

He thinks that because that is what Gillian says happened. She's said it a couple of times now. Each time with more detail. I figure she tells Carolyn next week based on the previews. This isn't something he thinks it's something he believes. She said he put his head in the log splitter but was still alive. She hit him with a log and he died. So I don't think Alan is leaping to a conclusion.

I think Alan wonders if she murdered Eddie in cold blood and then made it look like suicide, rather than finishing off a suicide attempt. That is beyond what Gillian has said, to our knowledge. So he has this persistent seed of doubt eating away at him [now; where it was in season 1 is a problem for some].

[SonofaBiscuit]

I swear that Gillian never actually admitted to putting Eddie out of his misery by hitting him on the head with a piece of wood.  Alan said this, yes, but didn't we only see Gillian admit to finding Eddie and not calling for help immediately?  I thought that each time Gillian has told the story, she has consistently said that she found Eddie and should have called the police but didn't.  Am I imagining this?

Edited July 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[dcalley]

I think you're right, @SonofaBiscuit but can't see any reason why Alan would make it up, so I have to assume it's something Gillian told him. Unless he's just confused because Robbie accused her of something.

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago

 

I swear that Gillian never actually admitted to putting Eddie out of his misery by hitting him on the head with a piece of wood.  Alan said this, yes, but didn't we only see Gillian admit to finding Eddie and not calling for help immediately?  I thought that each time Gillian has told the story, she has consistently said that she found Eddie and should have called the police but didn't.  Am I imagining this?

 

No, you're not imagining it.  Last season we saw Alan tell Celia that Gillian admitted to finding Eddie before he was dead and not calling for help.  Nothing about finishing him off.  And that is the story she herself told John this season.  The finishing him off bit is totally a retcon.

[dcalley]

Didn't Celia last season tell Alan that she contemplated not getting help when her husband fell? But then she did after all. Interesting similarity.

[Quilt Fairy]

I've started to wonder if the show's gotten all new writers since the first season, because the entire dynamic of this relationship, and a good bit of the backstory, has changed radically.  It's like they've forgotten everything they told us about Gillian and her marriage in season one.

AFAIK, the entire series has been written by one woman, Sally Wainwright.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Didn't Celia last season tell Alan that she contemplated not getting help when her husband fell? But then she did after all. Interesting similarity.

 

Yeah, she did.  I keep waiting for Celia to mention this again and explain that she understands what Gillian was facing in her situation with Eddie, but apparently the show has retconned this little tidbit out of existence, too.

[maraleia]

They haven't said definitively whether Caroline is bisexual or a late in life lesbian who suppressed her desires due to the era she grew up in and the upper crust circles she travels in. I am glad that Kate put her foot down and I love the nickname for the baby ... Calamity Jane!

[izabella]

Didn't Celia last season tell Alan that she contemplated not getting help when her husband fell? But then she did after all. Interesting similarity.

 

It seems she is at least trying to make Alan feel a little better about thinking his daughter is a murderer.  Celia did say Gillian might have done him a favor by finishing the job.  I can't imagine life after faulty log splitter suicide attempt, but knowing that involved his head, um, yeah, there are fates worse than death.

[Ohwell]

Just started watching this so I'm catching up.  As soon as I saw Anne Reid, I immediately thought of "The Mother."  That was the first time I had seen her and Daniel Craig.  I must say, they both left me thinking I would not want to ever see them again, lol.  And that poor daughter, who still loved Daniel Craig after all that sordid mess...

[Milz]

They haven't said definitively whether Caroline is bisexual or a late in life lesbian who suppressed her desires due to the era she grew up in and the upper crust circles she travels in. I am glad that Kate put her foot down and I love the nickname for the baby ... Calamity Jane!

 

In the Caroline-Celia showdown last season, Celia mentioned something about when Caroline went to university she cut her hair short and had a girlfriend, but Celia thought it was a phase/experimentation on Caroline's part.

 

John is probably one of the biggest asshats of all time. But I gotta give him credit: he was the one who pushed Raff and Ellie to go to the registrar's and give the baby an official name and get Raff on the birth certificate.

[jennylauren123]

I think it was more like an ax. Here is a listing for a log splitter. That makes much more sense to me:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Atlas-Tools-Premium-Log-Splitter-with-Fiberglass-Handle-12304/100387771

[Brattinella]

Nope, I cannot see how anyone could try to commit suicide with that.  How would you handle it?  Wedge it into a tree?  I think this http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/huskeereg%3B-22-ton-log-splitter-carb-compliant is much more likely and ewww.

[maraleia]

 

Celia introduces Alan to her sister, Muriel. Caroline is shocked to find out that Kate is pregnant. Gillian gets drunk and shares a dark secret with Caroline.

 

[Luckylyn]

I love the friendship that has developed between Gillian and Caroline.  That part where they couldn't stop giggling together was nice to see.   I can't wait to see what Caroline does or does not do with the information Gillian shared.    This is the most honest Gillian has ever been about what happened to Eddie. 

 

I don't know what to make of the Muriel and Celia dynamic.  I tend to side against Celia but I'm not certain she's wrong about Muriel.