Surviving R. Kelly

[Rlb8031]

On 1/5/2019 at 8:29 PM, sereion said:

It is important to note that dream hampton reached out to several major recording artists for this docuseries, (notably Jay-Z, Erykah Badu and Dave Chapelle to name a few)---John Legend was the only one who participated; the rest turned a blind eye by declining to come forward and call him out on his creepy behavior. It's as if he's immune to the MeToo movement.

I saw an interesting take on it from Questlove who essentially said he declined to participate, not because he didn't think that he's a trash human being, but because he thinks that he's a trash musician and objected to the premise that he would have to talk about how successful R. Kelly was as a musician and entertainer. I could see where he was coming from the John Legend piece was prominent in the whole setup around "why was R. Kelly allowed to do this? He was a musical genius!!!!" I'm not sure how they would have reflected Questlove's "He was, is, and always will be garbage" narrative. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

What the hell was going on at the high school that they allowed some 20-something to come around regularly and pick out specific girls to talk to and leave with them?!?!

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I saw an interesting take on it from Questlove who essentially said he declined to participate, not because he didn't think that he's a trash human being, but because he thinks that he's a trash musician and objected to the premise that he would have to talk about how successful R. Kelly was as a musician and entertainer. I could see where he was coming from the John Legend piece was prominent in the whole setup around "why was R. Kelly allowed to do this? He was a musical genius!!!!" I'm not sure how they would have reflected Questlove's "He was, is, and always will be garbage" narrative. 

This is why I adore Questlove!

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 1/5/2019 at 8:46 PM, Neurochick said:

He should have gone to jail decades ago when he married Aaliyah.  I wish Aaliyah was still with us, I’d love to hear her take on this.

From Wikipedia: "Aaliyah was known to avoid answering questions regarding Kelly following the professional split. During an interview with Christopher John Farley, she was asked if she was still in contact with him and if she would ever work with him again. Farley said Aaliyah responded with a "firm, frosty 'no'" to both of the questions. Vibe magazine said Aaliyah changed the subject anytime "you bring up the marriage with her". A spokeswoman for Aaliyah said in 2000 that when "R. Kelly comes up, she doesn't even speak his name, and nobody's allowed to ask about it at all". Kelly later commented that Aaliyah had opportunities to address the pair's relationship after they separated professionally but chose not to. In 2019, Damon Dash revealed to Hip Hop Motivation that Aaliyah didn't even speak of her relationship with Kelly in private; she tried multiple times to discuss it with him, but was only able to find the courage to say that Kelly was a "bad man". She told him that she could only possibly discuss the relationship with a professional councilor. Dash said he was unable to watch Surviving R. Kelly because its interviews with visibly traumatized girls struggling to discuss their encounters with Kelly reminded him of how Aaliyah behaved when trying to recount her relationship with Kelly."

[Neko]

7 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I saw an interesting take on it from Questlove who essentially said he declined to participate, not because he didn't think that he's a trash human being, but because he thinks that he's a trash musician and objected to the premise that he would have to talk about how successful R. Kelly was as a musician and entertainer. I could see where he was coming from the John Legend piece was prominent in the whole setup around "why was R. Kelly allowed to do this? He was a musical genius!!!!" I'm not sure how they would have reflected Questlove's "He was, is, and always will be garbage" narrative. 

Gotta agree with Questlove, there.  I always thought R. Kelly's singing voice was overwrought, and that he had a real hammy, laughably bad stage presence.  The words "R. Kelly" and "genius" should never be used in the same sentence, IMO.

6 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

What the hell was going on at the high school that they allowed some 20-something to come around regularly and pick out specific girls to talk to and leave with them?!?!

Good question.  When that former teacher was talking about how she told him to stay away from the young girls, I actually said out loud, "And what did you DO about it, lady?!"  In a way, I thought she was just as bad as the creep who forged the marriage license for Aaliyah.  Too many complicit people, man.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

52 minutes ago, Shakma said:

Good question.  When that former teacher was talking about how she told him to stay away from the young girls, I actually said out loud, "And what did you DO about it, lady?!"  In a way, I thought she was just as bad as the creep who forged the marriage license for Aaliyah.  Too many complicit people, man.

A teacher is a mandated reporter too! Too many enablers and he wouldn't have gotten away with it for 30 years without them.

[MsTree]

Not a fan (this whole story is new to me), so please forgive the ignorance: What is Aaliyah doing today? Did she ever remarry?

[Trini]

2 hours ago, MsTree said:

Not a fan (this whole story is new to me), so please forgive the ignorance: What is Aaliyah doing today? Did she ever remarry?

She died in a plane crash in the summer of 2001 at the age of 22. She didn't get married again.

[Robert Lynch]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

She died in a plane crash in the summer of 2001 at the age of 22. She didn't get married again.

Too young. She had so many opportunities going for her. I remember her last performance movie being heavily played on TV at the time of her death, Queen of The Damned. Beyoncé was close  to her age. I always wonder how Aaliyah would have made it as an artist. Usher told some funny stories about Aaliyah being a big horror fan. That was neat.

[Neko]

Aaliyah could have easily had a Beyonce level career.  I always thought she was very talented.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

Aaliyah's death is another true crime story in itself.

I only knew one song by her before this documentary, and when I checked out the "Age Ain't Nothing But a Number" song I was pretty shocked that her parents would have allowed her to record a song with those lyrics at age 14. Between that and the inherent sketchiness of a man in his 20s being best friends with a 12-15 year old, how could they never have suspected anything? Did they allow this to happen on purpose to start her career? The album was also co-produced by her uncle so clearly he knew about it.

[ChristmasJones]

Finally finished the sixth episode tonight. Wow, this was powerful.  I felt this was an extremely well-made documentary series. I am glad they chose to make it a six-hour series rather than try to cram it down into a shorter one. They had so much material to work with and they did an excellent job in terms of weaving the interviews and other footage together.  Given how many different people they interviewed, and how consistent all the stories were, I feel this program will break-down any remaining doubts that anyone may have about his pathology. 

I found myself imagining him and any of his current friends/enablers/supporters/etc sitting in their living rooms around the country watching this as it aired. You know that every single one of them did.  That is why I appreciate the decision to include so much material. I just don't think there is a way for anyone to watch this and have doubt about how incredibly disturbed this guy is. I will be interested to see where things go from here. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tracy Sampson says R. Kelly began abusing her when she was a 16 year old intern (Dateline NBC is airing  "Accused: The R. Kelly Story" tonight which includes an interview with Tracy)

Sony/RCA reportedly drop R. Kelly

Edited January 18, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DearEvette]

On 1/16/2019 at 5:46 PM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Aaliyah's death is another true crime story in itself.

I remember I was at a playground with my oldest son at the time (he was 2) and heard the news.  I got chills.  It was so sad.  And then the following year Lisa "Left-Eye "Lopes was killed in a car crash.  I always relate the two of them together because of their tragic deaths (one in the Bahamas during a video shoot and one in Honduras during a documentary shoot) that came so close together.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I remember I was at a playground with my oldest son at the time (he was 2) and heard the news.  I got chills.  It was so sad.  And then the following year Lisa "Left-Eye "Lopes was killed in a car crash.  I always relate the two of them together because of their tragic deaths (one in the Bahamas during a video shoot and one in Honduras during a documentary shoot) that came so close together.

I remember hearing about it on the morning news. As I said I only knew one song by her from my summer camp dance class (I wasn't allowed to listen to the radio or anything growing up) but I think she may have been the first celebrity who died who I actually knew of at the time.

[MisterBluxom]

I found this show to be most interesting because I have been following the Scientology cult and the superb program made by Leah Remini and Mike Rinder.  I have posted to Mike's excellent blog and I feel like I am a part of this struggle and that I am involved and invested in seeing both of these horror situations smashed forever.

I have a lot to say about both situations. But unfortunately (or perhaps it is fortunately), I recognize that I really don't know what I'm talking about.

For example, I have a suggestion as to what our society should do to R. Kelly but it would enrage most everyone here if I explained what it was. It is not some kind of torture or execution but it is certainly not permitting this abuse to continue either.

The thing that is absolutely astonishing is all the people who have decided that R. Kelly cannot possibly be guilty because his music is so angelic. He sings like an Angel. Therefore he could never have possibly committed these crimes.  I think it is absolutely essential that we find a way to  understand this mindset. Without any understanding, I can't imagine how it could be possible to come to any kind of satisfactory resolution.

How can anyone have any faith in our justice system when jurors make their decisions based on how well someone sings? It's enough to make me believe that human brains are thoroughly defective and all humans deserve to die in a fire. I'm sorry. I really don't mean that. But I find the entire situation to be absolutely nuts!

Most all these cults make me weep for the human condition. If I was a powerful inter-planetary race who was far advanced above and beyond humans, I don't think I would have any hesitation to just take a huge fly swatter and in one fell swoop, I would simply destroy this planet and all the crazy creatures who inhabit it. Seems eminently obvious that none of them deserve to live for more than just one more split-second. If you believe there could exist other life forms on other planets (and I do believe it's possible in the spirit that most anything is possible), I would worry for the continued existence of these crazy human creatures. It seems beyond any debating that - as a species - they just suck to the point where they do not deserve to live.

By the way - I searched the older brother because I wanted to know why he was in prison. All the info I found was very general and vague. Most of it talked about burglary. That is not very important. But I did find it somewhat intriguing.

Edited January 20, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[larapu2000]

This was beyond disturbing and heartbreaking.  

Watching those parents desperately try to get contact with their children was a scene I'll never forget.  Neither was watching the one mother reunite with her daughter.  

I hope this documentary starts the long process of justice for the many victims of R. Kelly, and I hope the members of his entourage are given similar sentences for turning a blind eye to the torture, imprisonment, humiliation, and degradation of CHILDREN.

I don't even know if I have the words.  Will Aaliyah's family finally speak out???

[BuyMoreAndSave]

Watched Episode 3 today. WTF. I was a kid when the pee tape came out so I don't think I heard of it until many years later. And I didn't know that he actually peed in her MOUTH which is an extra level of disgusting. When they showed the picture of the victim even though her face was blurred you could tell she looked like a kid too (not that it mattered what she looked like since she was *14* but still, that's another extra level of disgusting). How sick can this motherfucker be?! And how the fuck is he not in jail already (I guess Episode 4 will go into that).

[BuyMoreAndSave]

BTW on the Aaliyah topic I found this article today:

https://www.bustle.com/p/aaliyahs-moms-statement-on-surviving-r-kelly-addressed-a-new-allegation-in-the-documentary-series-15643011

Quote

In her statement, Mrs. Haughton explained,

"The woman and so-called back up singer in the forthcoming “Surviving…” documentary that describes seeing, meeting or ever breathing the same air as my daughter, Aaliyah, is lying and is a liar. My husband and I were always on tour with her and at interviews wand every place she went throughout her entire career. Whoever this woman is, I have never seen her before anywhere on planet earth, until now."

After revealing that she had no prior knowledge of Cunningham, Diane Haughton continued:

"These lies and fabrications cannot be tolerated and allowed to be spewed from the forked tongues of saboteurs of Aaliyah’s legacy. My daughter only wanted to realize her dream of sharing her talent with the world, and give her all performing on stage, and in from top the camera for the fans she adored so much. She realized that dream, thanks to those true fans who still love and support her legacy unconditionally to this day. Shame on all those involved in this project who thought it kosher to drag Aaliyah’s name into a situation that has nothing to do with her today. Once again, this will not be tolerated. Sincerely, Diane Haughton."

Well that makes me even more suspicious of her parents. How would it sabotage Aaliyah's legacy if it turned out she was the victim of rape? If her parents were with her at "every place she went throughout her entire career," then how did she at age 15 fly to another city and marry a grown-ass man, falsifying her age on the documents, and they supposedly had no idea until months later? There are also pictures of Aaliyah and Jovante Cunningham together in the documentary. Then there's this:

Quote

In 2016, Kelly refused to talk about the marriage with GQ "out of respect for Aaliyah, and her mother and father," whom he says personally asked him not to.

To me the evidence is indicating they looked the other way and let it happen, and now they're trying to cover it up before suspicion is cast on them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

BTW on the Aaliyah topic I found this article today:

https://www.bustle.com/p/aaliyahs-moms-statement-on-surviving-r-kelly-addressed-a-new-allegation-in-the-documentary-series-15643011

Well that makes me even more suspicious of her parents. How would it sabotage Aaliyah's legacy if it turned out she was the victim of rape? If her parents were with her at "every place she went throughout her entire career," then how did she at age 15 fly to another city and marry a grown-ass man, falsifying her age on the documents, and they supposedly had no idea until months later? There are also pictures of Aaliyah and Jovante Cunningham together in the documentary. Then there's this:

To me the evidence is indicating they looked the other way and let it happen, and now they're trying to cover it up before suspicion is cast on them.

Interesting that they aren't accusing the tour manager who admitted in the documentary that he got a fake ID for Aaliyah saying she was 18 so that she and R. Kelly could get married of being a liar. He's the same one who said in the documentary that R. Kelly came to him saying that he thought Aaliyah might be pregnant. It sounds like they're attacking Jovante because she is no longer part of R. Kelly's camp and is therefore fair game and won't violate whatever shadyass agreement he has with her parents.

[larapu2000]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:12 AM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

BTW on the Aaliyah topic I found this article today:

https://www.bustle.com/p/aaliyahs-moms-statement-on-surviving-r-kelly-addressed-a-new-allegation-in-the-documentary-series-15643011

Well that makes me even more suspicious of her parents. How would it sabotage Aaliyah's legacy if it turned out she was the victim of rape? If her parents were with her at "every place she went throughout her entire career," then how did she at age 15 fly to another city and marry a grown-ass man, falsifying her age on the documents, and they supposedly had no idea until months later? There are also pictures of Aaliyah and Jovante Cunningham together in the documentary. Then there's this:

To me the evidence is indicating they looked the other way and let it happen, and now they're trying to cover it up before suspicion is cast on them.

Aaliyah being preyed on by R. Kelly is tragic and sad, but more than anything-her parents are responsible for him never seeing the inside of a jail cell as much as his entourage that procures underage women for him.  This response is beyond disgusting and it's insulting to the people that were willing to come forward to speak out against this monster of a man.  

You can say that Jovante was mistaken, wasn't close to Aaliyah, etc.  But the lengths they go to in order to destroy the credibility of Jovante is a little "the lady doth protest too much."

[sereion]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:12 AM, BuyMoreAndSave said:

The woman and so-called back up singer in the forthcoming “Surviving…” documentary that describes seeing, meeting or ever breathing the same air as my daughter, Aaliyah, is lying and is a liar. My husband and I were always on tour with her and at interviews wand every place she went throughout her entire career. Whoever this woman is, I have never seen her before anywhere on planet earth, until now."

After revealing that she had no prior knowledge of Cunningham, Diane Haughton continued:

"These lies and fabrications cannot be tolerated and allowed to be spewed from the forked tongues of saboteurs of Aaliyah’s legacy. My daughter only wanted to realize her dream of sharing her talent with the world, and give her all performing on stage, and in from top the camera for the fans she adored so much. She realized that dream, thanks to those true fans who still love and support her legacy unconditionally to this day. Shame on all those involved in this project who thought it kosher to drag Aaliyah’s name into a situation that has nothing to do with her today. Once again, this will not be tolerated. Sincerely, Diane Haughton

Either she's in serious denial or complicit--that's all I'm going to say.

[Catgyrl]

FINALLY! Let's hope these charges stick.

Here's a better article: https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/r-kelly-reportedly-charged-with-criminal-sexual-abuse-in-chicago-court

Edited February 22, 2019 by Catgyrl

[BuyMoreAndSave]

2 hours ago, Catgyrl said:

FINALLY! Let's hope these charges stick.

Here's a better article: https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/r-kelly-reportedly-charged-with-criminal-sexual-abuse-in-chicago-court

It's about time! Hopefully that bastard doesn't get away with it this time now that he has so many different women from different time periods telling similar stories instead of just the aunt of a terrified teenager.

BTW did you guys hear about the other sex tape that came out? The details of it were disgusting. Unfortunately the allegations came from Michael Avenatti who has not exactly been a reliable information source. But supposedly CNN staff also saw the tape. I hope/assume it was turned over to police if it exists.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[MisterBluxom]

Celebrate! Celebrate! Isn't there a famous song that begins that way?

What are the odds he will end up in a penitentiary where he belongs?

Next step? Maybe the Tiny Fuhrer of Scamatology? Hey Miss Cabbage! Do you hear those footsteps approaching? It won't be long now. If they can get R. Kelly, how safe do you think you are?

Please be sure to tell us how it feels to do the perp walk in front of all your fans.

Edited February 23, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[ChristmasJones]

Did the recent documentary series have anything to do with this new turn of events? Or would it have happened anyway?

[Catgyrl]

37 minutes ago, MisterBluxom said:

Celebrate! Celebrate! Isn't there a famous song that begins that way?

What are the odds he will end up in a penitentiary where he belongs?

Next step? Maybe the Tiny Fuhrer of Scamatology? Hey Miss Cabbage! Do you hear those footsteps approaching? It won't be long now. If they can get R. Kelly, how safe do you think you are?

Please be sure to tell us how it feels to do the perp walk in front of all your fans.

Yes, it's called "Celebrate" by Three Dog Night (oldie here...). I will absolutely be doing my happy dance WHEN he's convicted. (Same dance I did when Bin Laden was killed)

8 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

Did the recent documentary series have anything to do with this new turn of events? Or would it have happened anyway?

I absolutely believe the documentary paved the way for all these women to have the courage to come forward, because they knew for sure they were not alone.

[ChristmasJones]

I just found this from an article:

Multiple women came forward with allegations of abuse in the explosive Lifetime documentary series Surviving R. Kelly when it debuted in January. Those claims, which included alleged sexual misconduct against several women who were underage at the time, gave rise to the #MuteRKelly movement and have stalled the singer's career.

Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta have been seeking information about Kelly since the accusations came to light in the docuseries. Foxx has previously said her office was inundated with calls after the doc premiered, and urged the public to come forward with information about potential victims of the R&B singer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/r-kelly-charged-with-aggravated-criminal-sexual-abuse/ar-BBTXwCU?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Edited February 23, 2019 by ChristmasJones

[MisterBluxom]

10 hours ago, Catgyrl said:

Yes, it's called "Celebrate" by Three Dog Night (oldie here...). I will absolutely be doing my happy dance WHEN he's convicted. (Same dance I did when Bin Laden was killed)

I absolutely believe the documentary paved the way for all these women to have the courage to come forward, because they knew for sure they were not alone.

I certainly can appreciate your sentiments about waiting until R. Kelly is convicted before you celebrate.

That makes sense to me since so many of these monsters continue to wriggle out of serious trouble. But, at the same time, many of them find themselves in a kind of trap where they keep getting into trouble - time after time - until they are finally convicted and spend most if not all of the remainder of their lives in prison. Consider Bill Cosby. Oh My Gosh! It took me a few minutes before I remembered his name. That means something to me. It means that he is now viewed as less of a public hero and more like someone who will eventually be convicted of a charge that he will be unable to escape and will wind up spending the rest of his life in prison.

I wish the same for the rest of these monsters. The Tiny Fuhrer (Miss Cabbage) (The Pope of Scamatology) is at the top of my list. I really and truly hope he is arrested and charged with the kinds of crimes he deserves and winds up spending the rest of his life in a penitentiary.

And I surely do not mean the kind of penitentiary that resembles a Country Club.  I mean one where he will regret every single day he is there.

Hey there, Miss Cabbage. Can you hear the police coming for you? Can you use your phony Super Powers to envision what it will be like to be handcuffed and spend several weeks or months in a court room and then several years - if not all the rest of your life - in a prison cell that you will definitely not enjoy. If there is any Karmic Justice in this world, you will spend the rest of your life in a prison in which you regret every single day you are there and you regret every single beating you gave to your helpless underlings because you will have to endure the same kind of pain that you gave to others. That is the meaning of Karmimc Justice after all.

Payback can be a bitch Davie Boy and in your case, I expect it will be a terrible experience where every single minute is filled with regret with sorrow.  It will look real good on you, Davie! Surely no one will suffer the payback any more than you will.

Edited February 23, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[Guest]

Let’s keep the topic limited in here to the alleged crimes of R Kelly please.

[junemeatcleaver]

I hope these charges lead to a guilty verdict this time.  R. Kelly has deserved a decades long stay in a prison cell for 30 years now.

[Enero]

I agree with all. I hope these charges stick this time. 

I saw that Jocelyn Savage and Azareil Clary showed up to court hand in hand to support him. I’m sure their parents who they’ve not spoken to in years were devestated to see this. At least both parents know that their daughters are still alive. I do wonder with RK in jail if the fog will start to lift a bit around them. With him gone he won’t be able to dictate their every move. One can only hope they’ll begin to see the light, but I don’t know. Being tharthryve been in this situation for years it may be difficult see it for what it is, even with him gone.

[Rlb8031]

18 hours ago, Enero said:

I agree with all. I hope these charges stick this time. 

I saw that Jocelyn Savage and Azareil Clary showed up to court hand in hand to support him. I’m sure their parents who they’ve not spoken to in years were devestated to see this. At least both parents know that their daughters are still alive. I do wonder with RK in jail if the fog will start to lift a bit around them. With him gone he won’t be able to dictate their every move. One can only hope they’ll begin to see the light, but I don’t know. Being tharthryve been in this situation for years it may be difficult see it for what it is, even with him gone.

I agree that the issue with so many of his victims was that given the age they were when the abuse started, they literally have no point of comparison about what it means to love or be loved in a sexual relationship. He's been training them for YEARS that love means to be abused, disrespected, lack ownership or the ability to make any decisions for yourself, etc. They will continue to think that so long as the mental shackles remain in place. Girls like Jocelyn and Azareil are especially vulnerable, because they haven't been endangered - and while they have been in a mental cage, they have never had to go without shelter, clothing, etc. My concern is what happens when the cards fall - he can't fund his own bail, eventually those people keeping this alive (his assistants, mangers, agents, etc.) are going to disappear. He won't be able to afford to pay for the homes he keeps these women in or to keep them fed, clothed, etc. They will be prime targets for pimps and traffickers, as sex work (in the name of love for RK) is pretty much all they have known. 

[Rlb8031]

Did anyone catch the Red Table Top episode about the show that Lifetime aired following the re-running of the series last night? I thought it was extremely well done, and again provided a bit more insight into the whole story. Evidently, Lisa was a foster child who had been abused while in foster care, prior to her adoption (at six years old). She shared that story with R. Kelly and that was his point of commonality on which their relationship was built. She also shared that he was the first person she told about her abuse. 

Another interesting piece of information was that she was still a teen herself when she was involved with the 14 year old. She didn't indicate her age, but said she met Kelly at 17, so she had to have been somewhere between 17 and 19 when that encounter occurred. In the original film it always seemed like she was an adult already, so it was interesting to hear exactly how young she was. 

[Snewtsie]

I just heard the woman who posted bail runs a childcare center. Doesn’t that absolutely horrify you? It does me. It’s filled with innocent kids who are under the supervision of someone who can’t recognize a predator. I’m sick to my stomach. 

[junemeatcleaver]

Oh gee, what a smart way to try to prove you're not an abusive piece of shit. 

[MisterBluxom]

On 3/1/2019 at 8:34 PM, Snewtsie said:

I just heard the woman who posted bail runs a childcare center. Doesn’t that absolutely horrify you? It does me. It’s filled with innocent kids who are under the supervision of someone who can’t recognize a predator. I’m sick to my stomach. 

I don't think I'm understanding you. Why does this horrify you? There may be more than one way to look at that. By having two women present, their thinking may be that makes it safer for the children because there are multiple eyes on the kids and if anyting "untowards" happens, there is a greater likelihood they will catch it before it becomes a real crime. Don't you think?

In case you have not seen the interview that Gayle King conducted with R. Kelly, here it is:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/r-kelly-denies-sexual-abuse-allegations-in-explosive-interview-2019-03-05/

I thought it was very bizarre that Kelly would complain about Gayle King "double joepardying" him because he seemed to claim that by being acquitted of one case he could no longer be charged or even suspected of any other crimes. But that is not what double jeopardy means at all. I'm just saying this from memory (and everytime I do this, a lawyer comes on here and shows me up by explaining that I don't know what I'm talking about). But as I recall, "double jeopardy" means that if you are charged with one specific crime (related to one specific set of facts), you cannot be charged again with the same crime covering the same set of facts. But, you certainly can be charged (and possibly convicted) of the same charge (like "attempted murder") as long as it covers a different set of facts.

If I am wrong about this, I certainly hope some lawyer will come on and explain just why I am wrong and explain just what "double jeopardy" really does mean.

In other words, the fact that R. Kelly was acquited of some sexual assault on one person on one specific days just means he cannot be charged a second time with the same crime covering the same victim on the same date and time. But he certainly can be charged and convicted of any number of other sexual assaults as long as they were different "events" (meaning they happened to a different victim or happened in a different location or  happened at a different date and time). 

It seems to me that R. Kelly seems to thing that because he was acquited of one sexual assault, that means he can go around sexually assaulting all the young girls he wants to now and he cannot be charged just because he "beat" one charge from a long time ago. That is not only crazy. It is also very stupid. Of course he can be charged for any new crimes he commits. If he really and truly believes that is what "double jeopardy" means, he is in for a very rude surprise. A very rude surprise that he will certainly deserve.

In case my feelings about this are not clear, I want to make it clear that I hope he winds up spending the rest of his life behind bars and the sooner - the better! 

IMO, he is a crazy monster and a stupid monster as well.  Can I say "F" Kelly?  I hope I can because that is exactly what I want to say.  To Hell with R. Kelly and in addition to that,  "F"  R. Kelly as well!

Edited March 6, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[Snewtsie]

1 hour ago, MisterBluxom said:

I don't think I'm understanding you. Why does this horrify you? There may be more than one way to look at that. By having two women present, their thinking may be that makes it safer for the children because there are multiple eyes on the kids and if anyting "untowards" happens, there is a greater likelihood they will catch it before it becomes a real crime. Don't you think?

In case you have not seen the interview that Gayle King conducted with R. Kelly, here it is:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/r-kelly-denies-sexual-abuse-allegations-in-explosive-interview-2019-03-05/

I thought it was very bizarre that Kelly would complain about Gayle King "double joepardying" him because he seemed to claim that by being acquitted of one case he could no longer be charged or even suspected of any other crimes. But that is not what double jeopardy means at all. I'm just saying this from memory (and everytime I do this, a lawyer comes on here and shows me up by explaining that I don't know what I'm talking about). But as I recall, "double jeopardy" means that if you are charged with one specific crime (related to one specific set of facts), you cannot be charged again with the same crime covering the same set of facts. But, you certainly can be charged (and possibly convicted) of the same charge (like "attempted murder") as long as it covers a different set of facts.

If I am wrong about this, I certainly hope some lawyer will come on and explain just why I am wrong and explain just what "double jeopardy" really does mean.

In other words, the fact that R. Kelly was acquited of some sexual assault on one person on one specific days just means he cannot be charged a second time with the same crime covering the same victim on the same date and time. But he certainly can be charged and convicted of any number of other sexual assaults as long as they were different "events" (meaning they happened to a different victim or happened in a different location or  happened at a different date and time). 

It seems to me that R. Kelly seems to thing that because he was acquited of one sexual assault, that means he can go around sexually assaulting all the young girls he wants to now and he cannot be charged just because he "beat" one charge from a long time ago. That is not only crazy. It is also very stupid. Of course he can be charged for any new crimes he commits. If he really and truly believes that is what "double jeopardy" means, he is in for a very rude surprise. A very rude surprise that he will certainly deserve.

In case my feelings about this are not clear, I want to make it clear that I hope he winds up spending the rest of his life behind bars and the sooner - the better! 

IMO, he is a crazy monster and a stupid monster as well.  Can I say "F" Kelly?  I hope I can because that is exactly what I want to say.  To Hell with R. Kelly and in addition to that,  "F"  R. Kelly as well!

I was implying she is a poor judge of character, and I would be worried if my kids were in her care, what other predatory individuals might she have around the children... I know nothing about two women watching the kids, so I can’t comment on that.  I would have thought one of his long term friends would have bailed him out, but no- it’s a woman who I’m guessing is under his spell, and she just hasn’t experienced the Robert side to him yet. 

Interesting info on the double jeopardy argument, but I believe this current case concerns 3 (or is it 4?) girls and the past case concerned 1 girl... no? I think we have been assuming the new tape of a 14-yr old may be the same girl as in the first trial, but maybe it’s a different girl. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[gunderda]

1 hour ago, MisterBluxom said:

I thought it was very bizarre that Kelly would complain about Gayle King "double joepardying" him because he seemed to claim that by being acquitted of one case he could no longer be charged or even suspected of any other crimes. But that is not what double jeopardy means at all. I'm just saying this from memory (and everytime I do this, a lawyer comes on here and shows me up by explaining that I don't know what I'm talking about). But as I recall, "double jeopardy" means that if you are charged with one specific crime (related to one specific set of facts), you cannot be charged again with the same crime covering the same set of facts. But, you certainly can be charged (and possibly convicted) of the same charge (like "attempted murder") as long as it covers a different set of facts.

Yes, you're right.  If you murder someone but are found not guilty you can't be charged with it again. (except now I think a family can go after the person for a civil suit or something.)  But if you murder someone else you absolutely can be charged with that person's murder. 

So yea he's free and clue of whatever charges from the case he was aquitted but he can be charged the same against another girl.  And he's an idiot for saying since he wasn't found guilty of that one case then he's obviously not guilty of all of it. 

[Rlb8031]

47 minutes ago, gunderda said:

Yes, you're right.  If you murder someone but are found not guilty you can't be charged with it again. (except now I think a family can go after the person for a civil suit or something.)  But if you murder someone else you absolutely can be charged with that person's murder. 

So yea he's free and clue of whatever charges from the case he was aquitted but he can be charged the same against another girl.  And he's an idiot for saying since he wasn't found guilty of that one case then he's obviously not guilty of all of it. 

That's almost it. You can't be charged again in the same court under the same charges for the same crime. You can be charged in a different court (so for example, the state charged you with conspiracy under state law, you win, then the feds charge you with conspiracy under federal law). As you've also correctly pointed out, you can be acquitted criminally, then can be sued in civil court. Civil charges won't result in you ending up in jail, but will assess fines and penalties against you. 

And yes, Robert Kelley is hood savvy and real world stupid. He's got his pimp game on lock but doesn't even understand the basics of how the law works.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Rlb8031
More info

[Enero]

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

And yes, Robert Kelley is hood savvy and real world stupid. He's got his pimp game on lock but doesn't even understand the basics of how the law works.

He doesn't get the basics of a lot of real world things. Did you hear him say he had no idea what a cult was? And I don't think he was "playing dumb" or being facetious. He is in fact DUMB. That is one reason why I believe he prefers young girls as opposed to women. A woman with intellect and confidence would quickly see him for who he is and would not be moved by his street swag. A young girl who has no life, much less relationship (romantic) experience, would be easily enthralled. 

His interview with Gayle King did him no favors. It was horribly acted and over the top. He came off as a dumb abusive jerk and he looked horrible. Despite not being a fan, I could acknowledge that he was a fairly attractive man, but not so much anymore. Perhaps the ugly within him is finally radiating out? I hope he goes down this time. 

[GoldenGirl90]

17 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

Oh gee, what a smart way to try to prove you're not an abusive piece of shit. 

I think he realizes the walls are finally caving in. It's a different time compared to when he first went to trial. All of this over-the-top, theatrical bs isn't going to save him this time around.

[MisterBluxom]

11 hours ago, Enero said:

He doesn't get the basics of a lot of real world things. Did you hear him say he had no idea what a cult was? And I don't think he was "playing dumb" or being facetious. He is in fact DUMB. That is one reason why I believe he prefers young girls as opposed to women. A woman with intellect and confidence would quickly see him for who he is and would not be moved by his street swag. A young girl who has no life, much less relationship (romantic) experience, would be easily enthralled. 

His interview with Gayle King did him no favors. It was horribly acted and over the top. He came off as a dumb abusive jerk and he looked horrible. Despite not being a fan, I could acknowledge that he was a fairly attractive man, but not so much anymore. Perhaps the ugly within him is finally radiating out? I hope he goes down this time. 

Beautifully said! Excellent post.

"the ugly within him is finally radiating out"  ... I will remember that line forever.

Edited March 7, 2019 by MisterBluxom

[luckyroll3]

19 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

And yes, Robert Kelley is hood savvy and real world stupid. He's got his pimp game on lock but doesn't even understand the basics of how the law works.

17 hours ago, Enero said:

He doesn't get the basics of a lot of real world things. Did you hear him say he had no idea what a cult was? And I don't think he was "playing dumb" or being facetious. He is in fact DUMB. That is one reason why I believe he prefers young girls as opposed to women. A woman with intellect and confidence would quickly see him for who he is and would not be moved by his street swag. A young girl who has no life, much less relationship (romantic) experience, would be easily enthralled. 

Let's not forget that he's also illiterate; he legit can't read.  So couple that with being dumb and you have someone who really doesn't understand much of anything.  And I agree, that's exactly why he goes after young girls.  And the few women he's been in relationships with have had low self-esteem or other issues that made them easy to manipulate, which he can spot easily.  

[BuyMoreAndSave]

Just discovered that this exists...R Kelly recruiting girls in Ethiopia in concert via song...what the absolute fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVthudlQagk

Edited March 8, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gayle King discusses her interview with R. Kelly:

Gayle talks about interviewing R. Kelly's girlfriends Azriel Clary and Jocelyn Savage:

Edited March 9, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Showthyme]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Gayle King discusses her interview with R. Kelly:

Gayle talks about interviewing R. Kelly's girlfriends Azriel Clary and Jocelyn Savage:

Robert was really playing up to the cameras. I am glad that Gayle told him that she wanted to have a conversation with him instead of him just ranting to the cameras. He is used to being the center of attention and having everyone hang on his every word. Robert can really turn on tears. 

There was a moment when Robert appeared to understand what he was up against.

I wonder if it has occurred to the girlfriends that Robert is broke and will not be able to support them much longer. Azriel was still drinking the koolaid. Jocelyn seemed to be going through the motions. I appreciate that Gayle was trying to explain to school them on Robert's crimes. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Showthyme

[Dorne2.0]

Ok. This was absolutely horrifying. But the part that shocked me the most is the conclusions I came about the sex tape and peeing incident and the girl’s family.

The girl, Sparkle’s mentioned, was her niece. But she told her oldest brother because she couldn’t tell her sister, I believe the sister’s was the girl’s mother… And I am sure a guy commented about the pee tape and that he heard the victim was the daughter of “his bass player or something”.

Sparkle in episode 4: “I really don’t know if my family was paid off. I know the family was still hanging out with him. My brother in law was still playing guitar on a lot of his songs. “

I actually found a video on youtube that identifies the girl and she doesn’t have the same last name as Sparkle. She is a daughter of a sister… It shows pictures of the girl that the doc showed with her face blurred and then the same pictures clearly showing the girl’s face. They also said her name.  I am so terribly sorry for that girl. Even more so if she still is with R. Kelly.

WAS THIS THE FATHER OF THE GIRL THAT STILL PLAYED WITH R. KELLY? Did the girl’s father continue to play in R.Kelly’s band AFTER R. KELLY RAPED HIS DAUGHTER AND PEED IN HER MOUTH? Even if it’s another brother in law and Sparkle has another sister still. The wife/aunt of the girl would be fine with this?

This was like up to five years after the trial started. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. And the girl still hanging around him after the tape scandal is so twisted and disturbing.

Edited to add: Her father STILL played base guitar for R. Kelly untill at least 2018.

I have no words. Are they in denial about the possibility of it being her and just refused to view the tape? Do they blame her or pimped her out?

The family blames the girl for what happened or just sold her out I think. Like people think 14 year olds just are mature enough because they hit puberty, like I’ve heard arguments that teenagers have sex with each other so why is it wrong for adults and teens to have sex. You know that bullshit pedophile arguments. And I think it had something to do with the assumption that black girls develop sexually early.

Many woman said R. Kelly introduced them to the girl on the sex tape.

I wonder if the girl was abused by her father/her mother/both her parents before she met R. Kelly. They sure seem to be able to sell her and not just take money and go away to try to heal her, like sometimes happens (the parents think "It already happened, I cannot undo it. The money can help us rebuild our lives and try to heal our child and send them to therapy, so I’ll take it. At least my child will never have financial problems". In these cases they go away from the press and they probably think the press is making it worse for the child, BUT they take the child away from the abuser.)  BUT HERE they continued to hang around R. Kelly. This means they either didn’t care much or are in deep denial and don’t believe he did this to her. They need to go to jail. Did the father or uncle sold her or something? I can’t begin to imagine how messed up that girl is.

I wonder who the trainer is. The guy on last episode said it was the girl who was with him the longest and the only one he truly trusted. It could be a girl we don’t know about, but a dark though came to my head that it could be the sex tape girl. The girl who had sex with her twice and identified her at the trial said when they first did the threesome the girl knew exactly what to do and she was the one being instructed…  It’s just so many girls mentioned her and didn’t mention a girl who he trusted and trained them. I think R. Kelly was always involved with minors but when did he actually started the cult? That guy who forged the documents for Aaliyah to marry him said the studio was full of rooms and girls waiting quiet in different rooms… He has been abusing  teenage girls for 25 years, but when did he start collecting women?

I do know a few R. Kelly songs, but the only one I knew was him was “Trapped in the Closet”. I had no idea “I believe I can Fly” was his. I never bought anything of his. Someone made me a mix playlist once and it had “Trapped in a Closet” in it. I remember them playing on the radio some songs I know now were his… So I always knew R. Kelly for “Trapped in a closet” and peeing on some teenager in a sex tape, I thought it was gross and disturbing and never looked up any more of his music.

Edited to add: Yeah, I found old comments on various boards and on youtube videos about Sparkle's, they are saying that she is still with Robert Kelly and that she is the trainer... 

Edit to add: according to buzzfeed the trainer is a girl who was best friends with the sex tape girl in high school and is the same age as Sparkle's niece, but not her. Sparkle's niece is not living with R. Kelly but apparently still sees him every now and then. Her own brother took pictures with R. Kelly after the trial. I guess this is the true story otherwise Sparkle would have mentioned it "my niece is still in the cult" or something.

Apparently the trainer is reffered to in the house as Den Mother now. Apparently she is allowed to see her family sometimes, she sometimes goes to concerts and she is on a strict diet since she was 12 because Kelly likes his women thin and petite.  She also does not have a high school diploma and is not allowed to have friends, she can only talk to the other girls when R. Kelly wants her to train them. I feel sick. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Dorne2.0

[Queena]

So much misinformation. I know a few people, in particular the earlier victims that weren't mentioned. 

I'm sure that mandated reporting wasn't a thing in 90-92 when he was trolling Kenwood. Did she and the other staff know? Of course, the music room would fill up when he came to the school. 

Sparkle's niece is very close to Kelly's family and even him. She still comes around him. 

There's no way that I would take my child to a R. Kelly concert or sign a guardianship letter so that someone in his camp can watch her. Especially in exchange for money. Both the Clarys and Savages did. When the daughters were trying to set up a meeting Avenatti told them not to because it puts public opinion on their side and makes Kelly look bad. Is he sick yes. Is he guilty hell yeah, I know that 100% certainty. However, at least one of the girls was an adult. An adult who Kelly flew out to see their daughter often. She cut off contact after they grilled her on video about her and his sex life. 

Sadly, I think that Avenatti has tainted this case. Hopefully it can be savaged, because while I don't think that he's held anyone hostage (there are videos with some of those ladies and parents talking about how they were lying but Lifetime couldn't cut it out because of cost) he deserves jail for Aaliyah and someone I knew. 

[Showthyme]

Given Avanetti's troubles, I wonder if he tried first to extort money from R Kelly. Robert has already convinced the girls that their parents only wanted his money and they were willing to sell their daughters to get it. I hope that Avanetti did not ask for payment because it will solidify R Kelly's claim to these impressionable girls.