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Season 3 Discussion


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How totally awful!!!  Whether you’re a Trump hater, lover, or in-between, this show should horrify us all with its blatant political propaganda.  Why do so many shows, from sitcoms to dramas, insist on pushing a specific political agenda on us?  I hope this trend doesn’t last.  It seems to me shows like this are creating public policy issues rather than intelligently presenting them. Ugh!  

That lawyer guy was such an extreme disparaging portrayal of an old white guy.  Injecting himself with Botox, unapologetically saying it’s good to knock others down, sexually harassing women, lying in the courtroom to win his case, saying facts don’t matter.  Puh-lease. 

I think I’m out.

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54 minutes ago, Marci said:

That lawyer guy was such an extreme disparaging portrayal of an old white guy.  Injecting himself with Botox, unapologetically saying it’s good to knock others down, sexually harassing women, lying in the courtroom to win his case, saying facts don’t matter.  Puh-lease. 

You’re right! Old white guys should only ever be presented favorably! They never do any of those things, and especially not the leaders of our country!

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The character of Diane Lockhart has always been a liberal feminist, and the way she sometimes fought for or against her beliefs in the interest of specific clients or the firm itself was an integral part of the show.

There have been a few other attorneys over the years who espoused a more conservative view, but they were presented more in opposition to Diane than as valid and worthwhile beliefs on their own. I think the show has also backed off on her husband's conservatism since he's taken to timidly hiding his business affairs from Diane. I like it more when he expressed his beliefs in an unapologetic manner and stood up to her better.

Diane's outrage and political anger are driving her down some strange, druggy roads, but so far I'm still along for the ride.

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1 hour ago, Marci said:

I guess it is the use of real people, and presenting them in a very disparaging way, that I find so offensive.  Trump’s son accidentally shooting Kurt, then leaving him there for hours so he could kill a giraffe.  I think that storyline is horrifying.  I guess I’m too old for this current political climate.  🙂

That's fair. I take it as satire, but I can definitely see how someone could take it more seriously,

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On 3/24/2019 at 9:11 PM, auntiemel said:

I tend to disagree, in that I don't think they are twisting characters to fit an agenda.

Also, that new character, Blum —  I think definitely created to fit an agenda.  No lawyer would ever act that way in a courtroom, let alone get away with it.  But, perhaps you have a point, in that it should all just be viewed as satire.  

Although I can’t get on board with using real people.  He has kids that have to go to school, he is real and being portrayed as morally bankrupt.  😞  I think that’s the definition of propaganda.  I know he’s in the public eye and it comes with the territory, but do we really need to see it on TV entertainment shows?  It’s on every political commentary show, which now includes every news station.  Exhausting.

Ugh! In the first episode, the only thing I didn't like was the nonsense with Maia. Now we have "cranked to 11" nonsense with Maia and Blum. The drugs part of it was particularly stupid. 

Sometimes this show (like The Good Wife) is able to throw in some absurdity and it works. But this ain't workin' for me, at all. I hope they veer away from this storyline pronto. I know that guy is a celebrated actor but he is really chewing the scenery in this role. 

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Ima pretty liberal guy so this show is obviously catered to. E.. But I find that the truly absurd stuff( which is basically all the trump stuff)  is portrayed as absurd and over the top.. Not to be taken as seriously as a fair share of the other points the show tries to make.. But I'm not on " the other side" so to speak so maybe its hitting home differently in other households... To that end I'd say if your inclined to get peeved at this show's leaning it may not be for you because the Kings( the creative team behind this show and its parent show The Good Wife)  are not really trying to be fair balanced or down the middle at least when it comes to The President... That said... In watching the episodes its not like the news story of Betsy devos allowing kids to take in more cyanide.. Made me like her any more or less

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Oh, dear. I dislike 80% of the storylines this season: Blum and Maia separately or together, Diane's hallucinations, Diane's marriage, Diane's obsession with Trump, the NSA eavesdropping crap. Even Marissa is getting to be too much of a magical know-it-all for me, dispensing advice and solving everyone's problems with a glance.

The Reddick sexual harassment predicament and Liz's divorce twists are the kind of courtroom-based shenanigans I enjoy and expect from this show. The rest is bumming me out.

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I lean right and have no real problem with the over the top Trump stuff..and as far as libelous, SNL's version of Eric Trump is way worse than anything here...they portray him like he's a special needs kid or something..

I haven't watched the episode that dropped today and the idea of more Blum on my TV is making me less than thrilled to see it but I love Christine Baranski so I might suffer through it..

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Okay..so the message is the woman has to let her hubby win to protect a dead man's legacy....and they say we've come a long way???? Yeah..huh....

This ep was a lot better than last week's even though I cannot stand Blum...I hope...hope...hope this is the end for him...and am intrigued by the pairing of Julius with Marissa...Still, I hope they give Maia something more to do.

Oh cool..the NSA guys are back? What do you want to bet, the NSA people put out the criminal record of that Valerie person?

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I liked this episode more than I'd like to admit.

I was hoping that they would bring Marissa's dad back for a few episodes (loved him on TGW) because I doubt that besides being a super awesome PI she suddenly morphed into a top campaign runner just by watching her father. Lucca is a really good character and putting her together with Liz and Adrian worked well.

What are the odds on the more reasonable NSA guy (Redmond, for the Younger watchers) ending up joining Diane's cause as a whistleblower?

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Diane is now committing felonious acts in her Trump obsession.  And is happy about it, as if her self-righteous cause is greater than any crime she commits.  

This show has become a political cartoon, and I guess it just has to be viewed as such.  But I think it has sacrificed quality of storylines and characters for the hope of high ratings by using such cheap “tricks”.  

Diane used to be such a good role model, a sophisticated, intelligent, successful woman of character.  Now she’s a drugged up, out of control criminal who we’re supposed to root for?  I don’t get where they’re going with her character. Probably nowhere.

Maia has become crude as well. I always liked her, but damn if she doesn’t play the nasty girl well.

The Liz storyline was the best for me, because as silly as it was at least it was clear who I should be rooting for.

And, yes, the NSA.  Of course they put out that arrest record, and yes that worker is going to whistleblow.  This was done before in TGW. 

I wish the show would go back to good writing, strong defined characters, and at least somewhat plausible storylines instead of playing on people’s political passions for ratings.

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On 3/23/2019 at 5:32 PM, palmaire said:

The trial scenes in this show are usually some of my favorites but I fast-forwarded so much that I don't know what Maia's trail is about or if I'm even supposed to be rooting for her defendant.

The first show of the season was great, but Martin Sheen's character, who cannot decide what accent to use, is ruining the show for me. I never could stand baby-voiced mouth-breather Maia, so the two of them together is fast-forward material.  They may kill the show.

Edited by deirdra
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1 hour ago, deirdra said:

The first show of the season was great, but Martin Sheen's character, who cannot decide what accent to use, is ruining the show for me. I never could stand baby-voiced mouth-breather Maia, so the two of them together is fast-forward material.  They may kill the show.

He's doing Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman.  (And I think it's terrible)  😁

Can someone explain to me the plot between Maia and Blum this episode?  I did not understand it.  How did Maia screw over Blum or his client.  Also why was Blum even working with Maia in the first place?

I get very distracted by the actors' quirky ticks (I'm sorry but Sheen was AWFUL here - I really liked him in "Passengers" so I know he can act.)  And Maia's super duper arrogance and lip-licking.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

He's doing Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman.  (And I think it's terrible)  😁

Can someone explain to me the plot between Maia and Blum this episode?  I did not understand it.  How did Maia screw over Blum or his client.  Also why was Blum even working with Maia in the first place?

I get very distracted by the actors' quirky ticks (I'm sorry but Sheen was AWFUL here - I really liked him in "Passengers" so I know he can act.)  And Maia's super duper arrogance and lip-licking.

Maia and Blum were working together because their respective clients (One ordered the murder and the other executed it) were being tried together. Maia tried to get a mistrial declared in the last episode but the judge refused to split the defendants up.

She screwed Blum over by agreeing to a deal with the prosecution of six months for her client of if he ratted out the other defendant.

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This season is definitely on the zany side. I don’t mind the schoolhouse rock-esque videos  (which every episode will have) because they’re catchy, short, and informative. My problem is that I’m just not invested in Diane’s storyline. I can understand her character’s viewpoint of feeling like the world has gone insane under Trump’s presidency; I can even understand the need to do something or feeling like fighting fair against a corrupt system will net the same results. That’s all great, and despite my lack of interest, the show is very well written and good at conveying what the writers want to get across. Where Diane’s story falls off the rails for me is her obsession with Trump. When the news cycle gets too hectic, I take a step back to find my sanity. Diane seems to delve in further and spin out of control.

Maia is a character I’m indifferent about. While her storylines aren’t bad, they aren’t compelling either. I’m semi-interested in her relationship with Blum moving forward (for those who don’t know, he’s a series regular this season) but only mildly. Speaking of Roland, it’s too early for me to form an opinion about his wayyyy over the top personality, but I hope he tones it down moving forward.

The rest of the characters I absolutely love and can’t wait to see what happens. I’m loving the dynamic between Liz and Adrian. It’s all so ambiguous and I find it interesting that the rest of the firm can’t seem to get a good read on their relationship. Even though Adrian and Liz were adamant about not crossing the line, Lucca never seemed fully convinced. And Jay seemed highly skeptical as well, almost angry. I know he was witness prepping them but he still came off a little to strong to me.

The only thing I feel like the show is missing from the season so far is more courtroom drama or intriguing cases. I don’t think the shows needs a “case of the week”, but I miss them talking about the law.

All that being said, I still feel like this is an excellent show and one of my highlights of the week.

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Just seen the first episode and - sorry, it was awful. Way too much trippy shit (is Diane back taking acid or whatever she was microdosing with to start a conversation with Kurt's scars? Do we need cutsey inserts explaining what an NDA is?) and it left a bad taste in the mouth when the firm is so gleeful that they managed to shut down the allegations against their former partner. They might have at least considered Diane's suggestion that they announce what they'd discovered, because your reputation will take a hit if it comes out - and given the number of women involved, it inevitably will. As they say, it's not the crime, it's the cover up. And the answer to "Did you shut down a #MeToo Website?" is "We represent our clients to the best of our ability, even if they are assholes." Not all their clients can be wrongly accused victims of society, surely some of them are just guilty - but they should still expect legal representation. Do people really expect a law firm to only represent angels?

Maia annoyed me as well - why wasn't she wearing her glasses if she needs them to protect her lacerated(?) cornea? Go to one of the partners and explain you need to wear them to protect eyes - is that really so hard? Yes, she could have got some Daredevil style glasses instead of those diving goggles, but blinking and crying around the office doesn't make you look good either.

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5 hours ago, FlyHighSky said:

Maia and Blum were working together because their respective clients (One ordered the murder and the other executed it) were being tried together. Maia tried to get a mistrial declared in the last episode but the judge refused to split the defendants up.

She screwed Blum over by agreeing to a deal with the prosecution of six months for her client of if he ratted out the other defendant.

So nice of you @FlyHighSky, thanks!

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Quote

I was looking up Michael Sheen on IMDB and noticed that user ratings have dipped from 8.2 for episode 1 to 6.3 and 6.4 for the other two.

I just looked at the IMDb user ratings for the first three episodes. The 8.2 is based on about 200 votes. The 6.3 is now 6.4 and is based on 175 votes. The 6.4 is now 7.0 is based on about 80 votes. At those small levels of votes, a few extreme ratings on either end of the spectrum could easily sway the ultimate number. Plus, IMDb ratings have been known to be gamed by groups of users who have a particular agenda. (IMDb claims to have programming in place to adjust for that possibility. However, the fact remains that most of their user group is male and ratings have on occasion been seen skewing accordingly.)

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in what's happening with user ratings on IMDb for The Good Fight unless the downward trend continues over the whole season.

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The out of control hatred for the President is definitely off putting for at least half of the country but at least they were willing to show the false news and lies spread by opponents of the President. Diane is now shown to be willing to break the law and do anything to spread lies and disinformation when she couldn't win an election.

It is amusing to portray the NSA as being controlled by President Trump when they in fact provided the FISA warrant which led to whole Russian collusion debacle that was just adjudicated by the Mueller report.

I guess you just have to chalk it up to the joys of fiction.

OH BOY, that was quite the episode.

That Taylor Swift knock off story was both, cringeworthy and denotative.

The story around Marissa and Julias was actually quite nice. She is very eloquent, and he is loyal and recognizes people who are good at their job.

I feel for Lucca because I have a similar sense of humor and a lot of people don't get it. While she handled that story with a lot of restraint what was kickstarted after that will be quite a major arc for the rest of the season. Dunno where they will take Maya, I hope she doesn't end up working for Blum.

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Having said I thought the first episode was awful, I think the second episode was even worse. Michael Sheen is a great actor, but here he annoyed the crap out of me, so much so that I was fast forwarding through his scenes. And while I can't claim to be an expert, wouldn't a lawyer that acted like that be held in contempt of court (and possibly disbarred)? Not for the lying/perjuring (though presumably that is discouraged!) but the grandstanding and violation of court proceedings. And isn't forcing the two defendants into acting as co-defendants a violation of their right to legal representation? What if one of them wants to testify against the other - will they still be tried together?

Liked Lucca's storyline and I thought it was reasonable use of her contacts to bring in clients (hey, her not-actually-mother-in-law may be a drunk, but she does have connections) and I think her leaking that he helped Kavanagh(sp?) to torpedo her rival may actually have shown she had the balls (so to speak!) to play a little dirty if necessary that might have impressed the other partners into voting for her (although that plotline did remind me of when Alicia was chosen ahead of Carrie in The Good Wife - at least she didn't need to be told what she needed to do).

I suppose if you're going to breach lawyer/client confidentiality, then it helps to keep a poker face when doing it. But given the weirdness happening in Diane's plots I'm starting to wonder if any of it is actually happening or it's all some drug induced psychosis. Which is a shame, because I used to like Diane's plotlines, but if I can't be sure if they're real, it's not worth trying to follow them (OK, I know none of it is real, but real within its own fictional world).

Oh, and one minor gripe - in the cartoon segment, the globe was rotating backwards (clockwise as viewed from the North pole) which just added to the pile of things wrong in the episode!

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(edited)

For the first two seasons this was appointment TV for me. This year it's gone so far off the rails as to be unwatchable. All! Outrage! All! The! Time!

Yeah, no thanks. I'm far more interested in their universe's courtroom machinations, oddball judges, and defending clients than I am about the current administration. If I want Outrage!Politics I've got Twitter, Facebook, and the evening news. When I watch a dramatic TV show I want to be entertained, and for me, this ain't it. It was fine when this was subtext for main plots last year and the first year, but there are so many falling anvils on this show that even Plucky Duck is safe.

And BTW, in any sane universe, Jay would have been instantly fired and escorted off the premises by security guards about 30 seconds after his meeting with the partners. In fact, while in the meeting, one of them should have been urgently paging I.T. to freeze his login credentials while the meeting was ongoing to prevent exactly what he did. Then, if he released all that stuff after he was terminated he'd be opening himself up to incredible legal jeopardy and it would guarantee he'd never work as an investigator again.

Edited by NJRadioGuy
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Another show that was so pitiful in pushing an agenda it was embarrassing.  Assuming Luca was a nanny because she is black with a white baby. (And how is that baby so white, anyway?  That in itself is just another way the show sets things up.)  One story arc after another, each one more stereotyped than the next.

And Diane and Liz being OK with the sister being publicly humiliated...after all, their cause justifies any means.That is how every person crazed into committing crimes thinks. Hitler thought that way. 

This show has become a stupid embarrassment to the legacy of The Good Wife. Julianna Margulies, Chris Noth and Alan Cumming can all rest peacefully knowing they didn’t sign up for this debacle. I don’t know how Christine Baranski sleeps at night, knowing that she has sold herself out for a paycheck. I read a bit of advice Julianna’s father gave her.  Baranski should take note:  “'If you got hit by a bus tomorrow, were you living your life truthfully, or were you waiting to get rich?”

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4 hours ago, Marci said:

Another show that was so pitiful in pushing an agenda it was embarrassing.  Assuming Luca was a nanny because she is black with a white baby. (And how is that baby so white, anyway?  That in itself is just another way the show sets things up.)  One story arc after another, each one more stereotyped than the next.

Lucca is mixed race and Colin is, as far as we know, white. It's not really surprising that their baby has fairly light skin. That's not a setup. The show wrote Cush Jumbo's own background onto Lucca and the baby on the show looks as light as the picture she shared on instagram of her son's hand after he was born.

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9 hours ago, Marci said:

Assuming Luca was a nanny because she is black with a white baby.

This has happened more than once to a friend, not as extreme as what happened to Lucca, but when she takes her grandchildren out, people assume she's the nanny because she's black and the kids have light complexions because their mother is white.

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A friend of mine who is Viet Namese told me that she gets mistaken for her son's nanny and the boy is Asian. One of the people on my radio who is South East Indian and married to a Caucasian complained that she gets called her kids' nanny too. Micro-aggressions abound.  I wanted Lucca to tell the woman that if she didn't let go of the baby carrier, she was going to sue her for kidnapping and then do it. But that wouldn't have been the OTT thing this show does.

12 hours ago, Marci said:

And Diane and Liz being OK with the sister being publicly humiliated...after all, their cause justifies any means.That is how every person crazed into committing crimes thinks. Hitler thought that way.

They weren't okay with it, they told the group of women so. They may have withdrawn from the group because of it although I'm not sure of that.

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

They weren't okay with it, they told the group of women so. They may have withdrawn from the group because of it although I'm not sure of that.

They didn't withdraw. Their last exchange was asking each other if they were going back, and both agreeing that they were, because - as Liz ruefully noted - "They are effective."

I thought this episode was riveting. Maybe not too original - and I’m pretty sick of the Jonathan Coulton interludes - but the points made by Adrian and Liz in explanation of how racial privilege reinforces itself were well taken. 

I’m a little sad that michael boatman’s judgeship storyline appears ended. He’s this show’s version of the comic relief. 

The turn on Maia’s predicament was well written. We left last episode understanding that she would be safe, treated differently because she’s Diane’s. Now Jay has basically gotten her fired by stoking tension at the opportune moment. She doesn’t have anything else. Her name is trash. 

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Feels as though Maia is being written out, as the recent TVLine article indicates. There is no door open for her at the firm, and she doesn’t answer Diane or Lucca anymore?

https://tvline.com/2019/04/11/rose-leslie-leaving-the-good-fight-maia-season-4/

Michael Sheen is more than over the top; he’s trampolining on Mount Everest. I can hardly watch him. Will was a roguish character too, but his motivation was less greedy. 

I wish they would attempt a firm-oriented multi-episode arc. Diane and Liz’s liberal cell still feels like a one-off. With such an ensemble cast, can’t we find some way to bring them all into one story? The showrunners are certainly capable. I’m looking forward to the next episode because it’s going to be well-acted and well-produced, but not because I want to see what happens. 

Edited by riprock
Punctuation.
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