Friends - General Discussion

[Olis93]

1 hour ago, mmecorday said:

I re-watched the finale over the weekend. I guess the first time I saw it 20 years ago I was so sad that the show was ending, I didn't notice how stunningly awful the series finale was! It's like a "Friends" fanfiction writer was plucked from obscurity to write the ending. Chandler and Monica get not one, but two babies that they barely pay attention to! Rachel gets off the plane! The Chick and the Duck version 2.0 get stuck in the foosball table! I loved this show and it deserved a much better written ending. 

I always felt that way about the finale too. It was way too big and overblown for my taste. Ross and Rachel should have reunited earlier in the season. I found the whole airport drama and Rachel getting off the place so cliche and predictable. The last scene with the six of them together in the empty apartment was great though.

Season 10 felt very rushed and I'm guessing it had to do with the lower episode count. Had they had the usual six more episodes to flesh things out it would have made things better IMO.

[ProudMary]

From Variety:

‘Friends’ Game Show Set at Max to Celebrate Show’s 30th Anniversary

A “Friends” game show is coming to Max in honor of the sitcom’s 30th anniversary. The four-part competition series, titled “Fast Friends,” will be filmed inside The “Friends” Experience: The One in New York, a two-story, 17,000 square-foot attraction featuring 18 nostalgia-filled rooms, activations and recreated sets.

The show will enter production in October. A release date has not yet been announced.

The series will stream on Max, which is also celebrating the 30th anniversary of “Friends” with bonus content, a TikTok filter, a new design for the show’s collection page, themed rails with handpicked episodes and other in-app surprises.

[Cattoy]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

From Variety:

‘Friends’ Game Show Set at Max to Celebrate Show’s 30th Anniversary

 

 

Okay, confession time. When I first read the headline, I was so excited someone was making a version of Bamboozled, the game show Joey was going to host.

[Palimelon]

With a round of Cups as a warm up?

[christie]

54 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

Okay, confession time. When I first read the headline, I was so excited someone was making a version of Bamboozled, the game show Joey was going to host.

Same

[chitowngirl]

At Monica and Chandler’s wedding-when did Joey have time to watch porn in everyone’s rooms?? 😆

[Madding crowd]

I always thought that too. And how did he get it their rooms? Joey doesn’t seem like he would leave the reception until close to the end but somehow he was then able to get in Rachel and Phoebe’s room and Chandler and Monica’s to order porn. 

[voiceover]

🤔 Maybe he just *billed it to their rooms?

Maybe he was watching porn “shorts”, 5-10minutes each?  (I feel compelled to add that I have no idea if that’s a thing)

Man, you know you’ve been rewatching this show for too long when “How did Joey watch that much porn at the wedding?” sparks a new thread.

[DMK]

I hate that plot line. Running up expensive porn and mini bar bills is not a funny thing for a friend to do. And how did Joey even get in all their rooms to do this? It had to be when they weren’t there, since they would certainly notice if porn was on the tv.

[peacheslatour]

8 hours ago, DMK said:

I hate that plot line. Running up expensive porn and mini bar bills is not a funny thing for a friend to do. And how did Joey even get in all their rooms to do this? It had to be when they weren’t there, since they would certainly notice if porn was on the tv.

I hated the way the show normalized porn. To paraphrase Rachel, it's not that common, every man doesn't do it and it is a deal breaker for a lot of women.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Am I horrible for never seeing Joey as the heart of Friends? Joey, aside from being nightmarishly stupid (especially as the show progressed), always struck me as more than a bit scummy.  

[Fellaway]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I horrible for never seeing Joey as the heart of Friends? Joey, aside from being nightmarishly stupid (especially as the show progressed), always struck me as more than a bit scummy.  

Definitely. Folks rag on Ross for his behavior towards Rachel, but me, I always found Joey's behavior way more problematic towards women. Chandler had his moments too.  (For example, the misdirected phone call woman.)

[Spartan Girl]

On 10/12/2024 at 6:32 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I horrible for never seeing Joey as the heart of Friends? Joey, aside from being nightmarishly stupid (especially as the show progressed), always struck me as more than a bit scummy.  

THANK YOU!!!

Characters like Joey use their stupidity to skate on accountability and fans would enable it and always call them the “heart” of the show. Phoebe was guilty of this too sometimes (like when she almost stole someone else’s cat because she wanted to believe it was her dead mom). See also Brittany from Glee.
 

[Fellaway]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Phoebe was guilty of this too sometimes (like when she almost stole someone else’s cat because she wanted to believe it was her dead mom).

And somehow Ross, the only really thoughtful one in this situation, was the bad guy again. Yeesh. Ross gets a bum rap a lot, to my mind.

[Spartan Girl]

38 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

And somehow Ross, the only really thoughtful one in this situation, was the bad guy again. Yeesh. Ross gets a bum rap a lot, to my mind.

On that occasion, Ross was the only sane man. Rachel took Phoebe’s side only to spite Ross after the whole beach trip fallout, which was pretty bitchy of her. As much as I despise Ross’ inability to let the “break” debacle go, Rachel was equally guilty of it. If you want to forgive him, that’s your business, but it’s not a free pass to hang it over his head for the rest of his life. Or to snipe at him and put the rest of the gang in a difficult position until you’re ready to act like an adult.

And did that stupid letter really have to be that long?

[peacheslatour]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:34 PM, Spartan Girl said:

On that occasion, Ross was the only sane man. Rachel took Phoebe’s side only to spite Ross after the whole beach trip fallout, which was pretty bitchy of her. As much as I despise Ross’ inability to let the “break” debacle go, Rachel was equally guilty of it. If you want to forgive him, that’s your business, but it’s not a free pass to hang it over his head for the rest of his life. Or to snipe at him and put the rest of the gang in a difficult position until you’re ready to act like an adult.

And did that stupid letter really have to be that long?

Seriously. The more I re-watch the show, the more I hate Rachel. This guy (Hugh Laurie) had it absolutely right.

[MadyGirl1987]

On 10/16/2024 at 12:52 PM, peacheslatour said:

Seriously. The more I re-watch the show, the more I hate Rachel. This guy (Hugh Laurie) had it absolutely right.

Leave it to Dr House to lay down the truth.

[Spartan Girl]

So am I the only one that thought Rachel was being petty and immature for dumping Ross over that dumb list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie? I mean, I get being hurt, but wasn’t exactly unforgivable. She seemed to go absolutely ballistic over the fact that he didn’t see her as completely perfect…and who cares when she got what she wanted and Ross chose her over Julie regardless of those faults. It was like she was subconsciously jumping on any excuse to chicken out of it and play the victim.

I would have thought more highly of Ross as he saw that as the big red flag it was, decided to hell with it, and moved on with his life right then and there.

[supposebly]

I think they were both pretty immature in their relationship. Sometimes, I'm wondering if that was the point.

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So am I the only one that thought Rachel was being petty and immature for dumping Ross over that dumb list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie? I mean, I get being hurt, but wasn’t exactly unforgivable. She seemed to go absolutely ballistic over the fact that he didn’t see her as completely perfect…and who cares when she got what she wanted and Ross chose her over Julie regardless of those faults. It was like she was subconsciously jumping on any excuse to chicken out of it and play the victim.

I would have thought more highly of Ross as he saw that as the big red flag it was, decided to hell with it, and moved on with his life right then and there.

I always like contrasting Ross's list about Rachel to Joey's list about her:

"She made me switch to light mayo. That's it!"

But Ross and Rachel are what happens when TV writers are scared that people will get bored of their show if it doesn't have relationship drama. They never should have gotten back together after their second break-up, at the start of season four.

In the real world, none of their friends would be encouraging them to get back together, like Phoebe constantly did. Two of your friends had a year-long relationship, six years ago, and the end of it almost destroyed the whole group? More than once? Oh yeah, let's encourage them to give it another go!

[chitowngirl]

The fact that he put “just a waitress” was a huge red flag. She was always going to be “less than” him. This was reinforced, by me, when they were arguing, before they Took a Break, that she had to work and couldn’t take a break. Ross thought he was more important. Also, when she told him she couldn’t go to his London wedding because she had to work, he got all pissy about it. WE know why she wasn’t going, but he couldn’t understand why she couldn’t drop everything and go to London at the last minute. Not everyone’s job will let you do that! The flights alone were probably astronomical! 

We could also talk about the magic portals they had to get to any airport from The Village! 😆 Flights in 20 minutes? No problem! Let me run home and get my passport!

[tearknee]

Has anyone read a decent "one/multiple of the characters die on 9/11?". The Seinfeld 9/11 fic was brought to my attention.

[Palimelon]

Why would we want to read that?

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Also, when she told him she couldn’t go to his London wedding because she had to work, he got all pissy about it. WE know why she wasn’t going, but he couldn’t understand why she couldn’t drop everything and go to London at the last minute. Not everyone’s job will let you do that! The flights alone were probably astronomical! 

Yes, but the fact remains that it was actually a lie. Rachel had no problem dropping everything to high-tail it to London, job be damned, to break up Ross’s wedding.

Edited October 19 by Spartan Girl

[tearknee]

4 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Why would we want to read that?

Don't know -- Just was thinking out loud in prose as the "WI Seinfeld had still been running at the time of 9/11" fan script had a mention on the page on TV Tropes that i was reading.

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 10/19/2024 at 7:08 AM, Spartan Girl said:

So am I the only one that thought Rachel was being petty and immature for dumping Ross over that dumb list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie? I mean, I get being hurt, but wasn’t exactly unforgivable. She seemed to go absolutely ballistic over the fact that he didn’t see her as completely perfect…and who cares when she got what she wanted and Ross chose her over Julie regardless of those faults. It was like she was subconsciously jumping on any excuse to chicken out of it and play the victim.

I would have thought more highly of Ross as he saw that as the big red flag it was, decided to hell with it, and moved on with his life right then and there.

You know what else is irritating? If Ross had seen that as a red flag, begged Julie for forgiveness and gotten back together with her, Rachel still would have gone back into "dog in the manger" mode. 

It has always galled me what little sympathy the other Friends had for Julie. Julie was a sweet person who never did them wrong, but they just accepted Rachel's psycho jealousy and Ross callously dumping her. None of them felt the need to call Rachel or Ross out on this. In fact, it was rare indeed when Ross and Rachel were called out on their bullshit. I can count maybe two occurrences (Monica's "I love Ross, I hate Ross!" and Chander's "If you say [we were on a break!] one more time, I'M going to break up with you!").

[Spartan Girl]

27 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

In fact, it was rare indeed when Ross and Rachel were called out on their bullshit. I can count maybe two occurrences (Monica's "I love Ross, I hate Ross!" and Chander's "If you say [we were on a break!] one more time, I'M going to break up with you!").

Which is why Monica and Chandler are probably the only members of the gang I even remotely like.

[Katy M]

On 10/19/2024 at 7:08 AM, Spartan Girl said:

So am I the only one that thought Rachel was being petty and immature for dumping Ross over that dumb list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie? I mean, I get being hurt, but wasn’t exactly unforgivable. She seemed to go absolutely ballistic over the fact that he didn’t see her as completely perfect…and who cares when she got what she wanted and Ross chose her over Julie regardless of those faults. It was like she was subconsciously jumping on any excuse to chicken out of it and play the victim.

I would have thought more highly of Ross as he saw that as the big red flag it was, decided to hell with it, and moved on with his life right then and there.

She didn't technically dump him because they weren't going out yet.  I personally don't see the list as that big of a deal.  if he hadn't physically made a list, he still probably would have had something going on in his head.  That said, Rachel can choose to not date whoever she wants based on whatever criteria.  And I also agree that it would have made sense for Ross to just let it drop and move on with his life.  I mean, sure, have one conversation about it, but that's plenty.

[tearknee]

I hope those *** who mocked Matthew Perry and called him "Chandler" in SMSes as they set in motion the events that led to his death get the entire Library of Congress rather than just a book thrown at them.

 

Whatever Matthew Perry may have done in life, he did not deserve that death.

Also goes for Vic Morrow -- it's telling that even Morrow's estranged daughters were so appalled at the gruesomeness of his and Le and Chen's deaths that they tried to have Landis held accountable (even if it didn't happen).

[Dimity]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:30 PM, chitowngirl said:

The fact that he put “just a waitress” was a huge red flag.

And even when Rachel was no longer "just a waitress" he had zero respect for her job.   But then, to be fair, I don't think Ross had much respect for any of the other friend's jobs either.  But at least he didn't show up at their workplaces and expect them to drop everything and picnic with him!  Yeah, I admit it, Ross was my least favourite friend.

[Spartan Girl]

On 10/19/2024 at 1:30 PM, chitowngirl said:

The fact that he put “just a waitress” was a huge red flag

In fairness, that was Chandler hastily shortening it from Ross stating the fact that he and Julie had more in common on a professional level. So not technically his own words.

[DMK]

5 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

In fairness, that was Chandler hastily shortening it from Ross stating the fact that he and Julie had more in common on a professional level. So not technically his own words.

No, that’s what Ross said.

Quote

Julie and I, we have a lot in common 'cause we're both paleontologists, but Rachel's just a waitress.

 

[Spartan Girl]

Fine, I still think Rachel was being petty, just like when she got his new girlfriend to shave her head and decided she wanted him back only to dump him again when it was obvious that neither one of them could let the cheating/break go.

And when she got so upset over Emily asking Ross to cut her out of his life. I might have had a modicum of respect for her if she acknowledged that it was probably for the best and that she had been a terrible friend anyway because of how she tried to bust up his wedding and nearly went on his honeymoon with him.

My point is that Rachel was one of those characters that never missed an opportunity to play the victim without taking time to realize “Hey, maybe I’m the asshole too.”

Hugh Laurie was right.

Edited October 31 by Spartan Girl

[Palimelon]

Quote

And when she got so upset over Emily asking Ross to cut her out of his life.

That would never have worked out anyway, given that Rachel was living with his sister and was friends with all of his other closest friends.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Palimelon said:

That would never have worked out anyway, given that Rachel was living with his sister and was friends with all of his other closest friends.

Which wouldn’t have been such a problem if they all weren’t so codependent on the status quo. Rachel could’ve moved out and found another apartment (unless she spent money like Carrie Bradshaw).

Honestly, I’m having trouble understanding why Monica would’ve wanted to stay friends with Rachel at that point, seeing as how the Ross and Rachel merry-go-wrong had gotten so toxic that Rachel tried to break up the wedding, and after the infamous ceremony, her one and only concern was how it affected herself and what it meant for her and Ross, no guilt whatsoever that her last-minute show up might have ruined things, even demanding that Monica serve as her love life adviser (and then automatically disregarding her advice).

[Dimity]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Rachel tried to break up the wedding, and after the infamous ceremony, her one and only concern was how it affected herself and what it meant for her and Ross, no guilt whatsoever that her last-minute show up might have ruined things

It's been awhile but my recollection is that Rachel didn't actually do anything other than show up, at Ross's invitation.  Whatever her rationale for going she wasn't the one who ruined things.  That was all on Ross.

[Palimelon]

Quote

Which wouldn’t have been such a problem if they all weren’t so codependent on the status quo. Rachel could’ve moved out and found another apartment (unless she spent money like Carrie Bradshaw).

Even if she did move out, they spent most of their time hanging out at Monica's place. Even at other places like Central Perk or Joey and Chandler's apartment, Rachel and Ross would have had to interact. Emily's request wouldn't have been possible given the logistic of how much and where the rest of them hung out with Rachel.

Quote

why Monica would’ve wanted to stay friends with Rachel at that point, seeing as how the Ross and Rachel merry-go-wrong had gotten so toxic that Rachel tried to break up the wedding, and after the infamous ceremony, her one and only concern was how it affected herself and what it meant for her and Ross, no guilt whatsoever that her last-minute show up might have ruined things,

Why would any of that be a reason for Monica to end her friendship with Rachel? I can understand why it would lead Ross to no longer want to get romantically involved with Rachel, but Ross was the one romantically entangled with her, not Monica.

[DMK]

10 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Why would any of that be a reason for Monica to end her friendship with Rachel? I can understand why it would lead Ross to no longer want to get romantically involved with Rachel, but Ross was the one romantically entangled with her, not Monica.

Well, the thing there is that if it’s your sibling, you absolutely have to take his side. I was good friends with my brother’s ex-wife but once the marriage ended, and not amicably, that friendship had to end. Now, in Ross and Monica’s case, as long as Ross doesn’t end the friendship, Monica is fine with continuing it as well. But if Ross had actually gone through with cutting Rachel out of his life, then Monica really should ask Rachel to move out, because her brother should trump any friendship with anyone.

[Palimelon]

Yeah but since Ross didn't end the friendship with Rachel, it's kind of a moo point.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, DMK said:

But if Ross had actually gone through with cutting Rachel out of his life, then Monica really should ask Rachel to move out, because her brother should trump any friendship with anyone.

I'd somewhat agree if Emily was actually ever really in the picture but since Emily and Ross were connecting and negotiating long distance I don't think it was up to any of the friends, including Monica, to rearrange their lives to accommodate Emily's expectations.   Even if those expectations were not unreasonable - which to be fair to Emily I don't think they were from her perspective. 

[DMK]

Just now, Dimity said:

I'd somewhat agree if Emily was actually ever really in the picture but since Emily and Ross were connecting and negotiating long distance I don't think it was up to any of the friends, including Monica, to rearrange their lives to accommodate Emily's expectations.   Even if those expectations were not unreasonable - which to be fair to Emily I don't think they were from her perspective. 

If you remember, Emily was supposed to move to New York under those expectations, presumably to often interact with at least Monica. So if all that happened, Rachel would’ve needed to move out.

[Dimity]

9 minutes ago, DMK said:

If you remember, Emily was supposed to move to New York under those expectations, presumably to often interact with at least Monica. So if all that happened, Rachel would’ve needed to move out.

If that had actually come to pass then Ross and Emily would have been putting all the friends into a difficult position. Monica may have felt obliged to choose her brother over her friend but that wouldn't have held true for the others.  Rather than compel them to pick sides the better option (in real life of course!) would have been for Ross and Emily to move and create their own circle of friends. 

Edited October 31 by Dimity

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

If that had actually come to pass then Ross and Emily would have been putting all the friends into a difficult position. Monica may have felt obliged to choose her brother over her friend but that wouldn't have held true for the others.  Rather than compel them to pick sides the better option (in real life of course!) would have been for Ross and Emily to move and create their own circle of friends. 

And the gang would’ve had issues with that too.

[chitowngirl]

Even if Rachel moved out, I think Emily would have a problem with all the time Ross spent over there. He was ALWAYS there. Carol even did the Ben handoff over there sometimes.

[DMK]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Even if Rachel moved out, I think Emily would have a problem with all the time Ross spent over there. He was ALWAYS there. Carol even did the Ben handoff over there sometimes.

Shoot, we got a look at the dynamic before Rachel even joined the group. Ross was always there even when he was married to Carol. Even if she hadn’t been a lesbian, I imagine that marriage would’ve failed anyway with his tendency to hang out with his friends and not his wife.

[Palimelon]

Wasn't Carol also there quite a bit too?

[DMK]

5 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Wasn't Carol also there quite a bit too?

Didn’t seem like it, since one of the things Ross talked about was that she didn’t have friends that were just hers. He was really pleased that she’d met Susan “Something” at the gym.

[Palimelon]

Maybe he was just glad she met some friends outside of his own group? Granted the only ones the grouip she would have really known well were Monica, Phoebe, and Chandler.

[Dimity]

I think the big difference between Carol and Rachel was that Carol was the one who left the group when she left Ross.  That's not what was happening, or was supposed to happen with Rachel.  Emily wanted Ross to stop hanging out with Rachel (understandably). Rachel wasn't going anywhere.  The onus was on Ross to leave,  and he chose not to.  I don't remember these episodes as well as the rest of you but I don't think there was any real discussion of Rachel being the one to move out and move on.

Edited November 1 by Dimity

[AgathaC]

5 hours ago, Dimity said:

I think the big difference between Carol and Rachel was that Carol was the one who left the group when she left Ross.  That's not what was happening, or was supposed to happen with Rachel.  Emily wanted Ross to stop hanging out with Rachel (understandably). Rachel wasn't going anywhere.  The onus was on Ross to leave,  and he chose not to.  I don't remember these episodes as well as the rest of you but I don't think there was any real discussion of Rachel being the one to move out and move on.

Well, there was the episode where Rachel talked about how she would probably eventually be phased out just like Monica’s boyfriend Kip. She convinced Phoebe to go with her and they planned to “take Joey.” Not that any of that actually happened. And I don’t recall anyone outside of Rachel and Phoebe discussing it.