Finding Your Roots With Henry Louis Gates Jr. - General Discussion

[Mermaid Under]

If we are sharing family stories that we wish HLG's legions would work on, if we could surmount the sign up process, here's mine.

My grandmother and grandfather (maternal) were married in 1918.  My mother always said that her father said he met his future wife's father and her sister Sarah (my grandmother's younger sister) only one time. 

Sometime before they were married, the father took off and never returned - he had taken off before, and come back, maybe more than once.  This time he didn't.  It doesn't sound like anyone looked for him, or suspected foul play.

The younger sister died in the flu epidemic of 1918.  Except she didn't.  When we were stuck cleaning out my grandmother's older sister's house (both my grandmother and Aunt M's only daughter were dead, so there was no one else) we found a bill from a local cemetery.  Sarah died in 1940, not 1918.  She is buried in a grave by herself, away from other family members, and not under the family name.  Her mother, who was still alive at the time, paid for the grave, burial, and headstone, so obviously she was part of the lie.  We don't know who else knew the truth.   There are lots of other little details flying around, but no one to explain exactly why they lied about her death.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Mermaid Under
to make better note of the fact that Sarah was dead, and then buried

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Mermaid Under said:

If we are sharing family stories that we wish HLG's legions would work on, if we could surmount the sign up process, here's mine.

My grandmother and grandfather (maternal) were married in 1918.  My mother always said that her father said he met his future wife's father and her sister Sarah (my grandmother's younger sister) only one time. 

Sometime before they were married, the father took off and never returned - he had taken off before, and come back, maybe more than once.  This time he didn't.  It doesn't sound like anyone looked for him, or suspected foul play.

The younger sister died in the flu epidemic of 1918.  Except she didn't.  When we were stuck cleaning out my grandmother's older sister's house (both my grandmother and Aunt M's only daughter were dead, so there was no one else) we found a bill from a local cemetery.  Sarah died in 1940, not 1918.  She is buried in a grave by herself, away from other family members, and not under the family name.  Her mother, who was still alive at the time, paid for the grave, burial, and headstone, so obviously she was part of the lie.  We don't know who else knew the truth.   There are lots of other little details flying around, but no one to explain exactly why they lied about her death.

Those are great mysteries!  I think the show could be revitalized with family stories like this mixed in with the celebrities.  A lot of the celebrities are nowhere near as engaging as Carol Burnett and Niecy Nash.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Suzn

[Blergh]

I found it sad that with the possible exceptions of her own mother and her earliest traceable multi-great-grandmother, Miss Lauper seemed to be resistant to the idea that any of her maternal Sicilian ancestors could have been positive people or even done anything good in their lives. Even the great-aunt who'd emigrated to the US on her own and brought the rest of her family, she dismissed as a sad, old miseryguts!

Surprisingly, she seemed happy to hear about the heroic Swiss Lauper ancestor which is interesting because I've never heard of her say anything positive about her own male DNA Donor.

I imagine Mr. Trejo's many times great-grandfather would be surprised at how much that part of Baja California has changed since he got the land grant for the ranch c.1820!

[Mermaid Under]

Lauper was the only one I really recognized.   Nothing in anyone's story was really surprising or new.
The only thing that struck me (not judging, just observing) was how difficult reading aloud was for Danny Trejo.  They didn't really talk about why or how his father just decided that he couldn't have contact with his mother. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mermaid Under

[shapeshifter]

Regarding this episode (9.4 "Far From Home," pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/far-from-home) 
I "know" Cyndi Lauper and Danny Trejo in that I've seen them on TV.
Jamie Chung was less familiar, but her family's deep historical record was fascinating.
The previous episode with Niecy Nash and Carol Burnett would have been a tough act to follow no matter what, but this group seemed so dull in comparison. 

Here are the charts representing the geographic origins of their ancestors based upon current DNA knowledge. Nothing unexpected. I just like pie charts.:

[iMonrey]

This one was kind of a snooze for me, mostly because the stories seemed too far removed from the celebs. I just don't feel any kind of connection between the little history lessons and the people whose distant ancestors were part of them. It was sort of interesting they were able to trace the direct male line of the Lauper family so many generations, because they rarely do that. But otherwise? Meh. I thought the story about Cyndi's great aunt coming over from Sicily had the strongest narrative, connection-wise. 

[12catcrazy]

This was an interesting episode.  Danny Trejo has had an interesting life.  The only other famous people I could think of who spent any real time in jail who turned their lives around were the Country singers Merle Haggard and David Allan Coe.   And yes, I wish that we were given more info about why Danny Trejo didn't have much contact with his mother (who looked very beautiful from her photo).  I wonder if his parents were even married?  

I have been listening to Cindy Lauper since the 80s when her hit album came out and will say that I had no idea that she was half-Italian.   I also had no idea that she was raised in Queens (always assumed The Bronx, with that accent - which I feel is largely put-on).   Her parents divorced when she was very young, and apparently her mother remarried and divorced again, so Cindy probably didn't have much in the way of good male role-models while growing up (especially from her comments).    And on a shallow note, for a woman who is pushing 70, she has got gorgeous skin and looks great in general. 

 

 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Regarding this episode (9.4 "Far From Home," pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/far-from-home) 
I "know" Cyndi Lauper and Danny Trejo in that I've seen them on TV.
Jamie Chung was less familiar, but her family's deep historical record was fascinating.
The previous episode with Niecy Nash and Carol Burnett would have been a tough act to follow no matter what, but this group seemed so dull in comparison. 

Here are the charts representing the geographic origins of their ancestors based upon current DNA knowledge. Nothing unexpected. I just like pie charts.:

Where did you find the charts?  They usually only show a quick glance at the charts and I want to really see them.

I found this episode interesting and enjoyed Cyndi Lauper.  I kind of liked her anger at the oppression of women.  It was obvious that she felt bad for her mother being thwarted by not being allowed to take advantage of the singing scholarship.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Suzn

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

Where did you find the charts?  They usually only show a quick glance at the charts and I want to really see them.

I went to the web version (https://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/far-from-home) and scrolled to the end of the episode, then did a screen grab with the Windows-native Snipping Tool on my laptop.

[Suzn]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I went to the web version (https://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/far-from-home) and scrolled to the end of the episode, then did a screen grab with the Windows-native Snipping Tool on my laptop.

Thanks so much!  😊

[Blergh]

7 hours ago, Suzn said:

Where did you find the charts?  They usually only show a quick glance at the charts and I want to really see them.

I found this episode interesting and enjoyed Cyndi Lauper.  I kind of liked her anger at the oppression of women.  It was obvious that she felt bad for her mother being thwarted by not being allowed to take advantage of the singing scholarship.

I fully agree that Miss Lauper's maternal grandfather dissing her idea to accept the singing scholarship not only was mean and uncalled for but downright foul, and yes, I understand why she believed that many women had been supressed in her mother's immediate family.

However, I'd hate to take the worst incidents of the worst individuals of ANY group and apply that to ALL members of said group -and I'd feel even worse if I had done that with a huge chunk of my own family to the point of refusing to believe that there could have been ANY good or positive moments in the lives they  or even their traceable ancestors had lived. I mean, Miss Lauper didn't even give that poor great-aunt  (who HAD been the first to come over from Sicily then brought the rest of the family) ANY benefit of the doubt that she could have been  once been a young, innovative and daring individual even if she wound up a balding and old miseryguts when  Miss Lauper knew her. And maybe those at least one of those four generations of coachmen might have been proud to wear the uniforms and considered it a more stable and respectable position  than being a street sweeper- and perhaps might have been nice as pie to their families at home but Miss Lauper didn't seem to want to consider any positive possibilities with that branch. It almost seemed as though she viewed her mother as having been the ONLY good,encouraging person in her own entire extended family . I felt sorry for her- as well as Dr. Gates who did seem to think that what he had  found about her maternal family might have given her some cheer.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

I fully agree that Miss Lauper's maternal grandfather dissing her idea to accept the singing scholarship not only was mean and uncalled for but downright foul, and yes, I understand why she believed that many women had been supressed in her mother's immediate family.

However, I'd hate to take the worst incidents of the worst individuals of ANY group and apply that to ALL members of said group -and I'd feel even worse if I had done that with a huge chunk of my own family to the point of refusing to believe that there could have been ANY good or positive moments in the lives they  or even their traceable ancestors had lived. I mean, Miss Lauper didn't even give that poor great-aunt  (who HAD been the first to come over from Sicily then brought the rest of the family) ANY benefit of the doubt that she could have been  once been a young, innovative and daring individual even if she wound up a balding and old miseryguts when  Miss Lauper knew her. And maybe those at least one of those four generations of coachmen might have been proud to wear the uniforms and considered it a more stable and respectable position  than being a street sweeper- and perhaps might have been nice as pie to their families at home but Miss Lauper didn't seem to want to consider any positive possibilities with that branch. It almost seemed as though she viewed her mother as having been the ONLY good,encouraging person in her own entire extended family . I felt sorry for her- as well as Dr. Gates who did seem to think that what he had  found about her maternal family might have given her some cheer.

Being of half Sicilian descent and from NYC I related to Cindy's feelings about this but I agree that she harbors a high amount of bitterness about it, plus in my own family I can see that it wasn't just the men keeping the women down but society in general in earlier times.  

My own mother, who was ahead of her time in terms of women's rights also harbored bitterness toward the men in her family for their attitudes towards women in general, but she came from a family of strong, intelligent women that may have tolerated that male attitude but didn't let it define or determine them.  Or maybe the men in my mother's family weren't quite as toxic as in Cindy's - I really can't say.  I got the sense that the women in my family rolled their eyes at that attitude and tolerated it because a lot of it was talk just for show and didn't translate into any toxic level of oppression.  In fact my mother loved many of her uncles because they were so nice and supportive to their wives and to her.  I know my grandmother left my grandfather because he probably had the most toxic attitude toward women of any man in the family.  Unfortunately my grandmother was forced to raise two children in NYC during the Great Depression which was horrible but at least they didn't have to put up with him anymore.  My mother ended up faking her ID to add a year to her life to join the Women's Army Corps.  That was her escape from poverty and a culture that she felt was generally oppressive to women.  She ended up doing two hitches in the Army during WWII, ascending to the rank of Sergeant.  

So it's no surprise that my own mother never liked Italian men in general.  The attitude Cindy hates is by far not only a Sicilian thing, but Italian in general, at least from a certain older generation.  Like Cindy's mom, she ended up marrying the most non-Italian man she could find.  And incidentally Cindy's father somewhat resembled my father when he was young!  It's also no surprise that I "inherited" my mother's lack of interest in Italian men.  First of all I was raised an Episcopalian and even in my generation I saw some similar attitudes in men of Italian descent that my mother had taught me to avoid.  So it's no wonder I was always attracted to Irish guys and WASPs.

So I don't know, I could possibly understand Cindy's mother being that bitter but it seems a little much coming from Cindy, unless there was a level of abuse she didn't discuss on the show.  Cindy's only 5 years older than me and only half Sicilian like I am so I would think her father's influence in her life would have provided a refuge and softened her attitude.

Also, Cindy's ethnic breakdown is very similar to my own minus the Ashkenazi Jewish I have on my Dad's side.  My father was not Swiss but English, French and German on his mother's side.

As far as the episode in general goes, I thought it was a good one.  Usually the 3 guest shows lack something but I was riveted for the entire episode.  Thankfully Henry didn't spend too long on any one thing, but pretty much covered everything adequately.  And now I know why everyone loves Danny Trejo so much!  I've known who he is for a long time but not much about him.  And it was nice to learn something about Korean culture and history.  Something different for a change.  My husband's boss is an American of Korean descent so this interested me.

 

[12catcrazy]

I'm going to play semi-Devil's Advocate here and mention that Cindy's grandfather may have nixed her mother accepting a singing scholarship as he figured it would lead to a career on stage which he probably viewed as being half a notch above prostitution.  

Most of us now have an admiration for talented singers and entertainers, but back in the bad old days, many of the women who supported themselves in that line of work, really did wind up having to pay their bills by way of being "kept" women or having numerous male "sponsors".   Read a biography about Sarah Bernhardt - who was an internationally celebrated actress - and it will give you an idea of what life was like for women entertainers.  

There was also the attitude back then of women who were educated or too career minded might have trouble finding a husband.   Even in Upper class American society, education was discouraged for women as it might make them less marriageable and more restless.  

And I kind of wonder if it hasn't been Cindy Lauper's own experience in the notoriously misogynistic world of the music industry that has also colored her outlook and added to her bitterness, but at least she tries to make a difference with her activism - I applaud her for that.  

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

I'm going to play semi-Devil's Advocate here and mention that Cindy's grandfather may have nixed her mother accepting a singing scholarship as he figured it would lead to a career on stage which he probably viewed as being half a notch above prostitution.  

Most of us now have an admiration for talented singers and entertainers, but back in the bad old days, many of the women who supported themselves in that line of work, really did wind up having to pay their bills by way of being "kept" women or having numerous male "sponsors".   Read a biography about Sarah Bernhardt - who was an internationally celebrated actress - and it will give you an idea of what life was like for women entertainers.  

There was also the attitude back then of women who were educated or too career minded might have trouble finding a husband.   Even in Upper class American society, education was discouraged for women as it might make them less marriageable and more restless.  

And I kind of wonder if it hasn't been Cindy Lauper's own experience in the notoriously misogynistic world of the music industry that has also colored her outlook and added to her bitterness, but at least she tries to make a difference with her activism - I applaud her for that.  

She quoted her grandfather as saying "only whores go to school in the city" in response to the scholarship offered to her mother.

[Chyromaniac]

I know it’s not in the spirit of the program, but it would have been hilarious if Skip had used a photo of Captain Lou Albano for one of Cyndi’s ancestors.

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, Chyromaniac said:

I know it’s not in the spirit of the program, but it would have been hilarious if Skip had used a photo of Captain Lou Albano for one of Cyndi’s ancestors.

I had the same thought while watching! 😂

[MrsKravitz]

I enjoyed the episode. As I watched Cyndi Lauper’s segment, I was thinking that it was a shame that they focused so much on the male line. I guess women were rarely able to be interesting enough to be documented beyond birth, marriage, death. Shallow: I loved her hair with the subtle pastels. 
 

I don’t know Jamie Chung, but I was amazed how far back the clan documentation went. I hope her parents are still around for her to share with them. 

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I'm going to play semi-Devil's Advocate here and mention that Cindy's grandfather may have nixed her mother accepting a singing scholarship as he figured it would lead to a career on stage which he probably viewed as being half a notch above prostitution.  

Most of us now have an admiration for talented singers and entertainers, but back in the bad old days, many of the women who supported themselves in that line of work, really did wind up having to pay their bills by way of being "kept" women or having numerous male "sponsors".   Read a biography about Sarah Bernhardt - who was an internationally celebrated actress - and it will give you an idea of what life was like for women entertainers.  

There was also the attitude back then of women who were educated or too career minded might have trouble finding a husband.   Even in Upper class American society, education was discouraged for women as it might make them less marriageable and more restless.  

And I kind of wonder if it hasn't been Cindy Lauper's own experience in the notoriously misogynistic world of the music industry that has also colored her outlook and added to her bitterness, but at least she tries to make a difference with her activism - I applaud her for that.  

Exactly, I think Cindy has blamed a lot on the men in her family that may have been the case in the greater society too.  Sicilian men were far from the only misogynists back in the day and people of all cultures shunned female entertainers and called them "loose women".  And even though my mother broke away from the family culture and pursued a career and later a college education the rest of the world wasn't exactly the most welcoming of her either.  Not to mention the fact that she Anglicized her last name at one point when looking for a job due to ethnic discrimination.

7 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I know it’s not in the spirit of the program, but it would have been hilarious if Skip had used a photo of Captain Lou Albano for one of Cyndi’s ancestors.

Forgive me but I'm having a hard time finding that funny.  Am I missing something?

[Blergh]

Yes, I agree that discrimination for being a non-WASP has been quite challenging. Let's not overlook that an aspiring performer named Anna Maria Italiano only got a few live TV shots under the stage name of 'Anne Marno' but wound up becoming a major star as 'Anne Bancroft'. Alas, it's doubtful she'd have had much if any luck playing anything but Mediterranean stereotypes had she kept her original name back then!

I think perhaps if they'd had a photo of 'Captain' Lou Albano for a momentary gag THEN shown an actual ancestral photograph to Miss Lauper, that might have gotten a bemused laugh. Of course, good or bad, Miss Lauper's endorsement of staged wrestling matches somewhat vaunted it out of obscurity and back  into the mainstream in the 1980's!

BTW, I'm a bit surprised that neither Miss Lauper nor Mr. Trejo mentioned their offspring in this segment- which many guests DO make mention of when being presented their ancestral tales.

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Blergh said:

BTW, I'm a bit surprised that neither Miss Lauper nor Mr. Trejo mentioned their offspring in this segment- which many guests DO make mention of when being presented their ancestral tales.

I was surprised at the treasure trove of information about Danny Trejo’s family on his Wikipedia page——none of which was mentioned during his interview. 
But maybe that’s why this was 3 truncated subjects instead of 2? Because a lot of the backgrounds for Trejo and Lauper are already publicly known?
And although the FYR team found many centuries of ancestral records for Jamie Chung, the details didn’t take long to cover.

[Chyromaniac]

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Forgive me but I'm having a hard time finding that funny.  Am I missing something?

Captain Lou was a WWF guy.  Back in the early 80’s, the WWF was making a big push into pop culture, and did a lot of cross promotion with MTV and pop/rock stars.  Cyndi was one of the foremost examples- she appeared on the first Wrestlemania, and Captain Lou played her father in the “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun” video.  That’s basically what I was joking about - that the show would pull a prank that they’re “related.”

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Captain Lou was a WWF guy.  Back in the early 80’s, the WWF was making a big push into pop culture, and did a lot of cross promotion with MTV and pop/rock stars.  Cyndi was one of the foremost examples- she appeared on the first Wrestlemania, and Captain Lou played her father in the “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun” video.  That’s basically what I was joking about - that the show would pull a prank that they’re “related.”

Ah I knew there was something I was missing!  Thanks for that background, I knew nothing about all that.  Now I get the joke!

[iMonrey]

Viola Davis's stories were sort of interesting, but both of Brian Cox's just felt like an excuse to tell WWI stories. "We believe your ancestor was in those trenches!" Oh really? You believe he was? So you aren't actually sure? So you're just making shit up now huh? Good to know. I clocked how many times Gates said "We believe" in this episode.

[auntjess]

I had a great-uncle, my grandmother's older brother, who was also gassed in WWi.
He developed TB and died of it, so I was interested in that part.

 

 

[Suzn]

I enjoyed both Viola Davis and Brian Cox.  They had good and intelligent attitudes about their ancestors.  Viola's appreciation for the suffering of her ancestors making her existence and success possible was lovely.

I didn't realize that Brian Cox was Scottish; I don't hear it in his accent as I usually do with Scottish people. There was so much sadness in the poverty of his ancestors and he, like Viola, was connecting what they endured to lead to success being possible for him.

[shapeshifter]

Viola is very eloquent when she speaks without a script. For example, about her ancestor being forced to care for his owner's son on the battlefield of the Civil War on the side of the Confederacy:

Quote

It's a horrible position.
It speaks to the invisibility of our humanity and our lack of choices... for our survival so long, I think that with African Americans, we've sucked down some major trauma in order to muster on. 

which in turn moves HLG to declare:

Quote

The whole system was designed to demean us, to rob us of our humanity. And it had an effect in our people that we see being played out over and over again.

 

Here are the pie charts from the end. 

 

[Vanderboom]

I guess we're not the only ones to notice the most common phrases and moments in the show!

 

[shapeshifter]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:29 PM, shapeshifter said:

Viola is very eloquent when she speaks

Guess I'm not the only one who thinks this👆

Quote

Actress Viola Davis has won a Grammy for the audiobook of her memoir, "Finding Me," earning her the coveted EGOT status — meaning she has won an Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony Award in her career. Davis is just the 18th person to have won all four major entertainment awards. . . .
"My life has really come full circle," she said in an interview on the red carpet following the win. "I wrote this book because I was trying to reconcile my life, I was trying to honor the young Viola. I wanted her to be excited at the 57-year-old she gets to become and this is just the icing on the cake." 
(cbsnews.com/news/viola-davis-egot-audibook-grammy-finding-me)

 

[kassa]

At my grandfather's funeral, one of my (Irish) great aunts sat beside me and we had a great chat in which she told me that her dream was to be a gym teacher but her mother told her that was something only lesbians did and if she wanted to work it was nursing or teaching. She spoke with the candor of the 100 year old lady who's still annoyed with her parents. (She became a nurse.) 

A generation earlier, nursing would have been just as questionable a pursuit as acting. It's sad she was held back from her desires. But then I think back and I believe every phys ed teacher I had WAS a lesbian and wonder how that became a thing.

[RockShrimp]

Some of this Joe Mangianello episode about his Armenian side is bizarre. Felt like despite the tragic story they were really treating him with kid gloves. trying to imply the best possible storyline for his great grandma getting pregnant. And Especially the “omg a guy who was a German soldier in WWI had a kid who was a nazi?!” How is that shocking?

Edited February 8, 2023 by RockShrimp

[Blergh]

I think Mr. Mangianello's Armenian great-grandmother having lost EIGHT children in most horrific ways was likely SO determined to bear and raise her 9th child that (in spite of the VERY strict traditions of Armenian women needing to be married before thinking of conceiving offspring), that I think it's likely she didn't care HOW the conception had happened much less what 'the neighbors' were going to think of her and her offspring, she was going to have a baby at the first opportunity she had of having one (and may have even been just thankful that her baby daughter's male DNA Donor hadn't been a Turkish man). The fact that she hadn't  evidently learned- much less passed down the name somewhat ups the odd that this had not been a consensual much less a mutually affectionate coupling (and let's not overlook the fact that the Armenian and German languages are TOTALLY unrelated so how could they have begun to converse?). Regardless, I somewhat doubt that the German male DNA Donor was upset at his marital son having joined the SS at the end of his life in 1944(when Germany was still governed by the NAZIs and many would only surfacely reject relatives' SS ties after 'deNAZIfication' after 1945).

In any case, that great-grandmother sure beat the odds to not only safely bear that child in spite of her entire family having been wiped out but even was  able to bring said child with her to the US and start new lives for both of them.

BTW, I wonder how his paternal grandmother managed to evidently pass off his father as having been the marital offspring of Mr. Mangianello's legal grandfather?

Interesting how both Mr. Mangianello AND Mr. Rodriguez turned out to have had hithero unknown African ancestors in the not too distant past.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Blergh

[iMonrey]

These were pretty interesting stories. I like it when the subject has some specific mystery they'd like to solve. Joe apparently had no idea he had some African DNA in his roots, and didn't seem to have much of a reaction to it. If that were me I'd be jumping up and down wanting to fist-bump HLG Jr. 

It's sort of fascinating they were able to learn who his biological grandfather really was through DNA and research. That's some pretty intensive detective work.

[shapeshifter]

Just watched this:
“Family: Lost and Found” (Season 9 Episode 6, Aired: 02/07/23, Expires: 03/07/23, pbs.org/video/family-lost-and-found)

Quote

Henry Louis Gates uses DNA detective work to solve haunting family mysteries for actor Joe Manganiello and football star Tony Gonzalez. Sifting through stories of the Armenian Genocide, the rise of Nazi Germany, the Jim Crow South, slavery, and the American Revolution, Gates unravels deep secrets and uncovers lost ancestors--compelling each of his guests to rethink their own identities.

I hoped an episode of just 2 subjects would have moving stories and I was not disappointed. Both Joe Manganiello and  Tony Gonzalez conveyed eloquent, poetic, and sincere expressions of appreciation for the knowledge of their ancestors’ origins. Both chose to appreciate the heroes and brush off those whose shameful choices made them not worthy of more than a few moments time. 
Maybe later they will want to learn more of their racist ancestors’ descendants––or not.

I do appreciate the editing and production quality of the episode too.

[tljgator]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Joe apparently had no idea he had some African DNA in his roots, and didn't seem to have much of a reaction to it.

He talks more about it in this Rolling Stone article (that a friend sent to me beforehand, not knowing it hadn't aired yet, so I was spoiled for the episode *hrmph*).

I would have liked more on the Armenian Genocide -- I always like to learn about things that haven't been covered repeatedly on the show -- but I thought it was a solid episode.

[Driad]

8 minutes ago, tljgator said:

I would have liked more on the Armenian Genocide

PBS has at least two shows:

Armenian Genocide 90 Years Later

The Hidden Map

[pasdetrois]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:09 AM, iMonrey said:

Joe apparently had no idea he had some African DNA in his roots, and didn't seem to have much of a reaction to it.

Especially given the rest of his appearance. Every other word was "wow" and he made a lot of comments. The lack of reaction was notable.

I'm glad they featured the Armenian genocide. A lot of people are unaware. Another forgotten genocide is the 1970s Khmer Rouge government's slaughter of millions of Cambodians.

Edited February 13, 2023 by pasdetrois

[blueray]

I really enjoyed this episode and how it discussed serious topics. Such as the Armenian Genocide which I'm sad to say I don't know much about...

But on the lighter note the best part was when Tony was related Shakespear ;).

[bybrandy]

Yeah I wondered if Joe was also told other things in that phone call.  I mean to learn in the span of 12/a couple of hours that you were not only mixed race but also that you descended from a black patriot... I mean how cool is that?  I'd be speechless.   I mean identity shifting awesomeness.  I'd have feelings about that and Gates would absolutely be asking me about them.  

[Yeah No]

This episode was all kinds of fascinating.  Each of them had the most interesting stories on multiple branches of their family trees and a lot to be proud about.  It's what I wish every episode could be like, although I'm sure that's not realistic.  I especially related to it because I too have found some amazing ancestors and interesting twists and turns I could have never foreseen.  Like I'm Sir Isaac Newton's first cousin several generations removed, so even there I related to Tony being Shakespeare's first cousin several generations ago.  You can't make this stuff up!  I ended up watching the last half of the episode over again on my DVR because my husband missed it when it aired and I realized there was so much in it to digest that I didn't absorb so well the first time.  So I'm glad I got to see it again.

[kassa]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:18 PM, RockShrimp said:

 And Especially the “omg a guy who was a German soldier in WWI had a kid who was a nazi?!” How is that shocking?

I think what was shocking to him was learning that he was descended from both victim/perpetrator of separate genocides. That's got to rattle your brain a little. 

His great grandmother must have been AMAZING, not just to survive what she endured but to go halfway around the world and start over. I wish there'd been more info about what kind of person she was later in life.  Was she kind and loving? Distant and tragic and unknow-able?

[iMonrey]

No comments on David Duchovny or Richard Kind? Maybe their stories were a little too similar or a little too familiar?

I've always thought there was something vaguely creepy about David Duchovny. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something just a little off about him.

[Suzn]

I found their stories interesting and of course, tragic.  The Jewish stories are repetitive to some degree but I think they are worthwhile even so.  For each person that didn't know their families story of the Holocaust, it suddenly becomes personal.  Even when we have heard variations on these stories before, they always are meaningful.

I thought both David Duchovny and Richard Kind had intelligent responses unlike the occasional guest who can only exclaim things like "that's insane".

[shapeshifter]

9.7 "Chosen" (Feb. 14, 2023, pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/chosen)

Quote

Henry Louis Gates helps actors David Duchovny and Richard Kind trace their roots from Jewish communities in Eastern Europe to the United States—telling stories of triumph and tragedy that laid the groundwork for his guest’s success.

 

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

No comments on David Duchovny or Richard Kind? Maybe their stories were a little too similar or a little too familiar?

"Familiar" to me, but probably not in the way you mean? 
I mean that their European origin stories were mine.

 

[Yeah No]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:41 AM, iMonrey said:

No comments on David Duchovny or Richard Kind? Maybe their stories were a little too similar or a little too familiar?

I've wanted to comment on this episode but somehow didn't find the time until now.  I guess the lack of comments on it might reflect perhaps a lack of resonation with their stories among the people reading here.  Having some Jewish ancestry myself, I very much related to this episode because so much in both of their stories was very similar to my family's story.  But truthfully I think I would have found it fascinating anyway.

I was blown away when David Duchovny said he always thought his family was just lucky that they got out before the holocaust, but that what he learned from Henry made him realize that they weren't just lucky, they were smart. That's pretty much something I've said word for word myself about my family!  Mine left Warsaw in the 1880s and went to London.  I always knew that this was a very smart move because it was the lesser of about 5 different evils at the time.  And that's in spite of them having to endure London's awful East End at the time of Jack the Ripper.  It was definitely "smarter" than where David D's family went.  In London they were able to open a tailoring business and saved money for their eventual move to the U.S.  Plus they were able to avoid persecution for the most part, although I've read that around the time they left some of that was starting up again in London.  So even the timing of their departure from London was very smart indeed.

When I found out how many times my great grandparents visited the US, probably to meet with relatives that had already come here and to plan for their eventual move here, I also realized how smart they were.  By the time they all came here in 1909 they had set up a tailoring business on lower Broadway in Manhattan, probably not far from Richard Kind's relative.  Was it luck that they avoided WWI by a few years, or again, were they just smart and "reading the signs"?

And speaking of other relatives, the more information that is uploaded onto Ancestry.com, the more I find extended family, and so far every single one of them came here, even some relatives my father didn't know about before he passed in 2020.  My great grandparents not only came here with their kids, but with their parents, their siblings, their aunts and uncles, and so far I've even found some cousins.  Finding this out was truly amazing for me.  I still wonder if anyone stayed behind but knowing how so many of them came here is wonderful knowledge to have.

Anyway, I can't say enough about this episode.  It truly touched me.  This and the episode before it were both amazing in my opinion. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Yeah No

[realityplease]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I was blown away when David Duchovny said he always thought his family was just lucky that they got out before the holocaust, but that what he learned from Henry made him realize that they weren't just lucky, they were smart.

Lucky to escape? Yes, given what was to come.  Smart? Maybe. Brave to leave considering how many didn't.  Maybe. Driven out by fear?  Probably.

After leaving the Pale, Duchovny's family jumped from a bad situation in Europe to another bad situation in Palestine.  He attributes their moves to smarts.  If that strokes his ego or whatever - more power to him. But when things went bad for them in Palestine, in hindsight, how smart was that choice?  Though certainly lucky to have survived it & later, thrived.

In hindsight, it's deemed smart or lucky -- but at the turn of the century many families left because of FEAR.  FEAR of pogroms, beatings, killings & oppression or for their childrens' safety, FEAR of conscripted military service (Jews made to serve twice as long as others & discriminated against in the Russian Army), FEAR of having their business or farms taken over, FEAR of having their religious freedom taken away, etc. 

They moved to a variety of places - some from frying pan into the fire, some in a series of moves in order to earn passage to America. At the turn of the last century, my great-grandparents fled what is now Belarus to escape forced Army induction - going to London's east end (where they lost a child in a fire) & eventually to America 6-8 years later.

Were they lucky given what would happen to the Pale in the future? Yes.  Were they smart & brave?  Probably, considering they had to leave their home, learn a new language & customs.  But really, fear drove them - & only when viewed in hindsight, it happened to turn out to be a smart & lucky move. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by realityplease

[sempervivum]

Was it just me, or did it seem like Dr Gates was trying pretty hard to get Angela and Jeh to admit that their white forebears (the guys who chose to stay with their black families) had done the best they could, considering they couldn't legally marry their ladies? 

Anyway, another Mayflower descendant?! And more 'how does that make you feel' prodding! It's getting old.

[shapeshifter]

Season 9, Episode 8, "And Still I Rise," first aired Feb. 21, 2023, pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/and-still-i-rise

Quote

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. reveals the unexpected family trees of activist Angela Y. Davis and statesman Jeh Johnson, using DNA and long-lost records to redefine notions of the black experience—and challenge preconceptions of America’s past.

I loved this episode, perhaps because the 2 subjects are academics, and I worked along side academics for 20+ years? IDK. Maybe because HLG Jr did try so hard to suggest the possibility that the mixed race couples genuinely loved each other while also acknowledging the completely understandable difficulty of a Black-identifying descendant of such a union accepting the idea of such love, especially when the Black half of the union was still legally enslaved or lived next door to the legal, white spouse? 

I had always thought of Angela Davis as a strident voice, but here she fully embodied the educator. She does not look or sound 79 years old!

Looking at their pie charts, I wonder why Angela Davis's chart does not show specific divisions of her European ancestry like the chart of Jeh Johnson and others on the show in the past:

 

 

 

 

[buttersister]

I remember Dr. Angela Davis back in the day. Mayflower? DAR (in fact if not in club)? OMG, her face when Dr. Gates uncovered those links--wanted to give her a hug. I wonder what she'll do with that information moving forward. 

[Suzn]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Looking at their pie charts, I wonder why Angela Davis's chart does not show specific divisions of her European ancestry like the chart of Jeh Johnson and others on the show in the past:

 

Well, that's a good question since nearly half of her ancestry is European!  Actually disappointing to not show that.  The stories were interesting and they put worth unknown and unknowable questions about the mixed race couples. The truly surprising one was with the white man living with the black woman rather than his white wife as of the 1870 census.  It's not surprising that the relationship endured but shocking that he was openly living with her. I can't believe that the community was accepting of that.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Suzn

[Driad]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Looking at their pie charts, I wonder why Angela Davis's chart does not show specific divisions of her European ancestry like the chart of Jeh Johnson and others on the show in the past:

Going by my own autosomal DNA results, I suspect that if she clicked on "European" the screen would list the varieties of European that she has.  Possibly since she has six categories of African, plus European and Asian, someone decided that listing all the categories would make the graphic too complicated.