S20.E11: Plastic

[dttruman]

Episode is from Googling SVU episode 11.  When a young woman accuses a celebrity plastic surgeon and his girlfriend of sexual assault, Benson and the team must determine if the woman was attacked or if it was a night of sex games gone wrong.

It only took the producers and writers three months to come up with an episode concerning this "Ripped from the Headlines" storyline. They made some changes too.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/reality-tv-surgeon-arrested-over-drugging-and-rape-may-have-thousands-of-victims-authorities

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Meh.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm pretty sure Cece was played by Alyssa Sutherland.  I mean, nobody looks like her.  She's gorgeous.

The doctor was Mark Feuerstein.

I actually thought the episode was going well, until the huge left turn at the end.  The body, the 14 year old.  Ick!  It would have already been rape without that considering they raped the girl at the party.  Yikes.  There was just way too much thrown in this one.

So all those other women were actually consenting adults...??  

Edited January 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Yes, that was Alyssa Sutherland.

[Xeliou66]

What a boring, predictable, unoriginal episode. We’ve seen he said/she said rape cases with the victim an attractive upper class while woman and the perp a wealthy, famous white male with the incident occurring after a trendy party numerous times over the last few years. The storyline was incredibly dull and very predictable, it was obvious that the female perp would be less guilty than the male perp because the agenda Mariska wants to push will never allow women to be truly evil, so I knew from the start the female perp would eventually turn on the male, and I also realized that Sadie was CeCe when the body found turned out not to be CeCe. 

Carisi and Fin were entertaining as always, but of course the super mommies are the ones who get to do the final interrogations and close the case. Can Carisi and Fin get an episode where they can get the focus and not Benson and Rollins?!

Stone not being there was very odd, it made no sense why he wouldn’t be at the station when Heath and Sadie were being interrogated. And why was Sadie/CeCe talking to them without their lawyer at the end?

No soapy personal stories and no political preaching was nice.

This season has been incredibly mediocre, Carisi and Fin have been great but most of the episodes have been dull and there is too much focus on Benson and Rollins and not enough courtroom stuff.

[HunterHunted]

The first half of the episode was based on Grant Robicheaux.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/gynvxy/bravo-show-doctor-drug-rape-women

No clue where the second half came from.

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm pretty sure Cece was played by Alyssa Sutherland.  I mean, nobody looks like her.  She's gorgeous.

28 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Yes, that was Alyssa Sutherland.

 

Yep. It was Queen Aslaug herself.

[Fellaway]

Again, the show seems to be trying to go old school with the twists. The secret video, the body in the wall, the body in the wall not being Ceci...  I have no problem with twists, but as soon as Dad said Ceci thought she wasn't pretty, I began to suspect Sadie was Ceci.  So that twist wasn't too successful, but I did find the reunion between her and her dad affecting.

What are the chances there'd be two girls the same age range, from the same area, both named Moira, who went missing in the same timeframe?  Moira just doesn't seem that common a name, but, I dunno.  And that woman with the house?  Had a decided lack of curiosity why two NYC detectives were interested in her former tenant and her basement.  I would've at least asked why they wanted to see my basement before leading them down and leaving them alone there after asking about my paneled wall.

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So all those other women were actually consenting adults...??  

Yeah, that seemed far-fetched.  So Ava was the first time they, as a couple, raped someone?

The episode was okay.  I did like seeing lots of Carisi and I LOLed at his timing, when the doctor was asking him if he never craved two women melting under him (or however he phrased it) and Carisi promptly asked for the girl's number.   Now if we could just get an episode about him... 

[LizDC]

48 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The doctor was Mark Feuerstein.

And Ava was Willa Fitzgerald who played Feuerstein’s half-sister on Royal Pains. Awkward. 

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, I guessed almost every plot point just from watching the preview. Starts as a He/She said vs She said story which is hard to prove, the guy is smug and rich, the woman is sexy and more sexy, and eventually it will be revealed that the man is the true villain, and the woman is a victim somehow, and she turns on him when she sobbingly breaks down as Olivia tells her that he doesent really love her. The only parts I didnt guess was that it seemed like they only raped one woman and the rest of their three way partners were consensual (I assumed they were serial rapist types) and that he had murdered a little girl. As soon as the dad of the missing girl said she was obsessed with being pretty, I knew she was the girlfriend, and saw pretty much how this would play out. They even had the "we arent judging people who partake in three ways, EXCEPT WE TOTALLY ARE HE CANT LOVE YOU IF HE LIKES THREE WAYS YOU SICK FREAKS!!!" stuff. Because no way could a woman enjoy that! Its all about her being manipulated by her evil husband who never loved her, of course! 

It almost felt like the dead girl existed just so that they could nail this guy and positively announce that he is the real villain and that the girlfriend was a victim with no ambiguity, and have him sent to jail, more so than he might if it was just the poor girl he and his girlfriend raped. It seemed so tacked on at the end, and his methodology was all over the place. I mean, I guess any psycho rapist is likely to change his MO, but this guy goes from "obsessing about some girl in college" to "manipulate two teen runaways into doing child porn and killing one of them and using plastic surgery on the other to make her look a certain way" to "have three ways with former teen runway with consensual partners except for one girl we rape", its just weird how they wrote his character. Really, the first half of the episode was pretty interesting, and the idea that this couple might have escalated from rough but consensual sex with strangers to rape and could keep going was a cool and creepy idea, maybe ending with them killing someone, but then it took a really weird hard right into dead kid land. 

This would have been an interesting episode to have some courtroom stuff, too bad we didnt get any. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by tennisgurl

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin and Carisi as usual, especially Fin. I wish they had given Fin some more snark since this really could have used it to spice things up and balance out the overly dramatic self-importance.
No extraneous soapy personal life subplots.
Brooklyn Nine-Nine is back, so no matter what happens there will be at least one well written and interesting series about an NYPD detective squad on NBC Thursday nights!

The Bad:
The central concept of the episode is played out - attractive rich white people and issues of consent. It may not be entirely fair of us to punish this season for the sins of late Season 17 and (especially) Season 18 as this was competently executed and mixed in with other types of stories, but the truth is that they've simply gone to this well too often and need to avoid it or at least change it up more than just adding mid Baer period stye "shocking" plot twists. If you're going to do this story you need to do something really different (an actually innocent alleged perp or both victim and perp being non-white working class people.)
They were really twisting things around to keep Mariska in the spotlight. Why couldn't Fin be the one in the hospital with Carisi? How is it that Benson switches off who she's interviewing in such a way that she's always there for the important plot beats? At least they let Carisi be there when Ava decided to testify after all.
They really could have used Stone this week, although it seems he makes more of the legal decisions when he's not on screen...
Next week's trailer looks potentially promising. Not that I ever trust the NBC promo monkeys of course.

Overall this was a middling episode - basically a Season 18 episode, but competently scripted (which yes is a pretty big and important difference) with some season 7-9 "SVU twists" added on. It was well done for what it was, but I don't want to see this plot again unless you have something extraordinary. Good enough just isn't god enough when it comes to Manhattan party people he said, she said cases.

Edited January 11, 2019 by wknt3
Nine-Nine!

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

We’ve seen he said/she said rape cases with the victim

 

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Starts as a He/She said vs She said story which is hard to prove

Why do they have to start an episode that resembles an episode, from two stories ago? Are they trying to get us to prejudge this episode? This could have been another good vehicle for Fin and Carisi, but they had to follow a story line that feature Benson at the end convincing someone to testify against (in this case) the standard rapist.

This show kind of reminds  me of "Caretaker", which was set up to focus on Benson and Rollins interviews (and their reactions) with the mother, where as Fin and Carisi could have gone in 2 or 3 different directions, because of the mother's different motives. How do we know that this guy did commit the murder? There is the ex-girlfriend who still had a thing for him (because of that nickname) and she dated a contractor and the lady who rented him the house was an unhappy divorcee (as she told Fin and Carisi), she might have taken out her anger and then put the body behind the wall. This could have been a great investigation episode for the two guys, but Benson has to get the spotlight.

Overall it wasn't too bad, but they forced the plot line to make a murder less important than a rape case.

[GordonGartrelle]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

What a boring, predictable, unoriginal episode. We’ve seen he said/she said rape cases with the victim an attractive upper class while woman and the perp a wealthy, famous white male with the incident occurring after a trendy party numerous times over the last few years. The storyline was incredibly dull and very predictable, it was obvious that the female perp would be less guilty than the male perp because the agenda Mariska wants to push will never allow women to be truly evil, so I knew from the start the female perp would eventually turn on the male, and I also realized that Sadie was CeCe when the body found turned out not to be CeCe. 

Carisi and Fin were entertaining as always, but of course the super mommies are the ones who get to do the final interrogations and close the case. Can Carisi and Fin get an episode where they can get the focus and not Benson and Rollins?!

Stone not being there was very odd, it made no sense why he wouldn’t be at the station when Heath and Sadie were being interrogated. And why was Sadie/CeCe talking to them without their lawyer at the end?

No soapy personal stories and no political preaching was nice.

This season has been incredibly mediocre, Carisi and Fin have been great but most of the episodes have been dull and there is too much focus on Benson and Rollins and not enough courtroom stuff.

You're from IMDB message boards?

It was just an odd episode.  Of course the female perp would be found less guilty.  In this episode she was weaker.  Had he been the weaker perp he would have flipped.

And yes it was very predictable that Sadie was CeCe.  It's almost as if they wanted us to guess it.  Dad speaks about how daughter thinks she ugly duckling with low self esteem, picture of her in compromising situation with a plastic surgeon.

[GordonGartrelle]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, I guessed almost every plot point just from watching the preview. Starts as a He/She said vs She said story which is hard to prove, the guy is smug and rich, the woman is sexy and more sexy, and eventually it will be revealed that the man is the true villain, and the woman is a victim somehow, and she turns on him when she sobbingly breaks down as Olivia tells her that he doesent really love her. The only parts I didnt guess was that it seemed like they only raped one woman and the rest of their three way partners were consensual (I assumed they were serial rapist types) and that he had murdered a little girl. As soon as the dad of the missing girl said she was obsessed with being pretty, I knew she was the girlfriend, and saw pretty much how this would play out. They even had the "we arent judging people who partake in three ways, EXCEPT WE TOTALLY ARE HE CANT LOVE YOU IF HE LIKES THREE WAYS YOU SICK FREAKS!!!" stuff. Because no way could a woman enjoy that! Its all about her being manipulated by her evil husband who never loved her, of course! 

It almost felt like the dead girl existed just so that they could nail this guy and positively announce that he is the real villain and that the girlfriend was a victim with no ambiguity, and have him sent to jail, more so than he might if it was just the poor girl he and his girlfriend raped. It seemed so tacked on at the end, and his methodology was all over the place. I mean, I guess any psycho rapist is likely to change his MO, but this guy goes from "obsessing about some girl in college" to "manipulate two teen runaways into doing child porn and killing one of them and using plastic surgery on the other to make her look a certain way" to "have three ways with former teen runway with consensual partners except for one girl we rape", its just weird how they wrote his character. Really, the first half of the episode was pretty interesting, and the idea that this couple might have escalated from rough but consensual sex with strangers to rape and could keep going was a cool and creepy idea, maybe ending with them killing someone, but then it took a really weird hard right into dead kid land. 

This would have been an interesting episode to have some courtroom stuff, too bad we didnt get any. 

I felt like maybe because I was tending to other things while watching the episode that I missed something because I also could not understand how every other 3way was consensual but he decided to rape this one girl? (I"m not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying in this episode it didn't make sense)

And the dead girl was a Red Herring, served nothing to the plot except to make us think that ??? (forgot name) was dead.  Wack!

[Xeliou66]

57 minutes ago, GordonGartrelle said:

You're from IMDB message boards?

It was just an odd episode.  Of course the female perp would be found less guilty.  In this episode she was weaker.  Had he been the weaker perp he would have flipped.

And yes it was very predictable that Sadie was CeCe.  It's almost as if they wanted us to guess it.  Dad speaks about how daughter thinks she ugly duckling with low self esteem, picture of her in compromising situation with a plastic surgeon.

Yes I’m from IMDB, how did you know? 

Yeah this episode was incredibly predictable and unoriginal, very mediocre. We’ve seen he said/she said rape cases between attractive wealthy white people over and over, nothing about this made it unique or interesting, I lost interest quickly.

[dttruman]

39 minutes ago, GordonGartrelle said:

And the dead girl was a Red Herring, served nothing to the plot except to make us think that ??? (forgot name) was dead.  Wack!

Two other people could have had strong motives also. But Fin and Carisi weren't allowed to look into that, because Benson needs a majority of the episode time to convince women they have been victimized, even if they they are conspirators. Bottom line, It's never a women's fault.

[Xeliou66]

27 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Two other people could have had strong motives also. But Fin and Carisi weren't allowed to look into that, because Benson needs a majority of the episode time to convince women they have been victimized, even if they they are conspirators. Bottom line, It's never a women's fault.

Exactly, I knew before the episode aired that the female perp would wind up being a victim as well, because the show never wants to portray any truly evil woman because of Mariska’s female empowerment agenda. 

This season has been so dull with Fin and Carisi as the sole bright spots, and unfortunately they don’t get as much screen time and don’t participate in as many major scenes as the super mommies. Season 19 was up and down, but it was more compelling overall than this season, they’ve had a few good episodes this year, but overall it’s been very mediocre.

[Gigi43]

I knew from the start the doctors girlfriend was, somehow, going to be a victim of the doctor too, because that's just how the works now so everything was just meh. I thought the actor playing Cici's father was good so I gave a damn he got to see his kid alive. But of course the show ended on a shot of Benson. What else is new.

 

Seriously though, this is why I hope SVU never tries to do ripped from the headlines with Lena Dunham because they'll absolutely play into the bullshit deflecting she's been spewing that it was "the patriarchy"  that made her lie about information of a rape, not that she was covering for someone she'd made money with and probably wanted to keep that an option and now is looking for credit for "coming forward" (reads to me: legally she was probably asked to hand over her so called information and was backed into a corner.) As a female, equality to me isn't claiming we are constantly victims. There are some terrible women in the world, but you would never hear that on SVU anymore. The shocking twist of this episode would have been if the girlfriend had killed Cici and it was her idea to get the girls. 

 

Also, as other people said, yet more white people and man/woman crime. This is a show set in NYC actually filmed in NYC, they have no excuse for this shit.

[Samantha84]

No one is gonna talk about the ask and not answer from Olivia when Ava asked if she ever thought about sex with a woman or wanted to. I am one of those viewers whose never seen the OB/Alex chemistry but I've thought writers should have made Liv bisexual for a dozen seasons 

[Picture It. Sicily]

4 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

I knew from the start the doctors girlfriend was, somehow, going to be a victim of the doctor too, because that's just how the works now so everything was just meh. I thought the actor playing Cici's father was good so I gave a damn he got to see his kid alive. But of course the show ended on a shot of Benson. What else is new.

 

Seriously though, this is why I hope SVU never tries to do ripped from the headlines with Lena Dunham because they'll absolutely play into the bullshit deflecting she's been spewing that it was "the patriarchy"  that made her lie about information of a rape, not that she was covering for someone she'd made money with and probably wanted to keep that an option and now is looking for credit for "coming forward" (reads to me: legally she was probably asked to hand over her so called information and was backed into a corner.) As a female, equality to me isn't claiming we are constantly victims. There are some terrible women in the world, but you would never hear that on SVU anymore. The shocking twist of this episode would have been if the girlfriend had killed Cici and it was her idea to get the girls. 

 

Also, as other people said, yet more white people and man/woman crime. This is a show set in NYC actually filmed in NYC, they have no excuse for this shit.

More like smeared a victim's character, FWIW. 

 

As far as the episode, what is this shows new obsession with threesomes?

[GordonGartrelle]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I’m from IMDB, how did you know? 

Yeah this episode was incredibly predictable and unoriginal, very mediocre. We’ve seen he said/she said rape cases between attractive wealthy white people over and over, nothing about this made it unique or interesting, I lost interest quickly.

as a fellow memeber, i not only remember the username, but your strong opinions of the Olivia character.

I miss IMDB message board.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, GordonGartrelle said:

as a fellow memeber, i not only remember the username, but your strong opinions of the Olivia character.

I miss IMDB message board.

I miss IMDB as well. 

Benson drives me nuts now, she was fine when she was a detective but ever since she became the squad leader/Mariska became a producer her ego has gone into overdrive and it’s all about St Olivia all the time.

[dttruman]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I actually thought the episode was going well, until the huge left turn at the end.  The body, the 14 year old.  Ick!  It would have already been rape without that considering they raped the girl at the party.  Yikes.  There was just way too much thrown in this one.

I agree, there was too much going on and it became so superficial. It only gained substance when Benson (coincidentally) decides to give one of her inspirational speeches concerning empowerment for women victims to Sadie. And that was all BS, because all Sadie had to say was "He always stays with her" and there was no reason to assume otherwise after 14 years. 

[dttruman]

Did anyone else find it very hypocritical when Fin and Carsisi returned from their road trip and told Benson they needed to go after this guy and she warned them "not to get ahead of their skis".  For episodes now, Benson has been warned by Stone, Fin, Carisi and many others for being premature when it came to arresting and prosecuting suspects. Now she decides to act like an objective superior (so out of character for her). I thought this was a very poor attempt at giving  Benson the moral high ground.

 

 

 

And then I found this

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

18 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

as a fellow memeber, i not only remember the username, but your strong opinions of the Olivia character.

I miss IMDB message board.

I miss IMDB as well. 

Benson drives me nuts now, she was fine when she was a detective but ever since she became the squad leader/Mariska became a producer her ego has gone into overdrive and it’s all about St Olivia all the time.

What a hell of a time for a reunion, break out the beer and chips!

Edited January 12, 2019 by dttruman

[Samantha84]

Let's take the sexual assault out of it for a minute ......... Olivia was judging them for engaging in threesomes as opposed to Amanda who came from a 'not my cup of tea' stance. For someone who's been a detective in sex crimes Missy sure is prudish & judgmental about consensual sex. Even Fin with the lawyer who consented and had a good time as she told him. It's like, 'y'all need to get'

[Xeliou66]

47 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Did anyone else find it very hypocritical when Fin and Carsisi returned from their road trip and told Benson they needed to go after this guy and she warned them "not to get ahead of their skis".  For episodes now, Benson has been warned by Stone, Fin, Carisi and many others for being premature when it came to arresting and prosecuting suspects. Now she decides to act like an objective superior (so out of character for here). I thought this was a very poor attempt at giving  Benson the moral high ground.

Agreed 100%. For years, St Olivia has arrested people based on flimsy evidence because she believes they are guilty, and then bullied Barba/Stone into prosecuting them. She has no business telling people not to jump the gun, but of course they will make her the voice of wisdom who has to guide everyone else. I’m so sick of how St Benson always has to be right and of everyone kissing her ass. 

[GordonGartrelle]

9 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

I knew from the start the doctors girlfriend was, somehow, going to be a victim of the doctor too, because that's just how the works now so everything was just meh. I thought the actor playing Cici's father was good so I gave a damn he got to see his kid alive. But of course the show ended on a shot of Benson. What else is new.

 

Seriously though, this is why I hope SVU never tries to do ripped from the headlines with Lena Dunham because they'll absolutely play into the bullshit deflecting she's been spewing that it was "the patriarchy"  that made her lie about information of a rape, not that she was covering for someone she'd made money with and probably wanted to keep that an option and now is looking for credit for "coming forward" (reads to me: legally she was probably asked to hand over her so called information and was backed into a corner.) As a female, equality to me isn't claiming we are constantly victims. There are some terrible women in the world, but you would never hear that on SVU anymore. The shocking twist of this episode would have been if the girlfriend had killed Cici and it was her idea to get the girls. 

 

Also, as other people said, yet more white people and man/woman crime. This is a show set in NYC actually filmed in NYC, they have no excuse for this shit.

I thought the actor playing Cici's father was good so I gave a damn he got to see his kid alive.

OMG yes.  In the chaos that was this episode, the gentleman that played the dad was really good.

[GordonGartrelle]

22 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Again, the show seems to be trying to go old school with the twists. The secret video, the body in the wall, the body in the wall not being Ceci...  I have no problem with twists, but as soon as Dad said Ceci thought she wasn't pretty, I began to suspect Sadie was Ceci.  So that twist wasn't too successful, but I did find the reunion between her and her dad affecting.

What are the chances there'd be two girls the same age range, from the same area, both named Moira, who went missing in the same timeframe?  Moira just doesn't seem that common a name, but, I dunno.  And that woman with the house?  Had a decided lack of curiosity why two NYC detectives were interested in her former tenant and her basement.  I would've at least asked why they wanted to see my basement before leading them down and leaving them alone there after asking about my paneled wall.

Yeah, that seemed far-fetched.  So Ava was the first time they, as a couple, raped someone?

The episode was okay.  I did like seeing lots of Carisi and I LOLed at his timing, when the doctor was asking him if he never craved two women melting under him (or however he phrased it) and Carisi promptly asked for the girl's number.   Now if we could just get an episode about him... 

And that woman with the house?  Had a decided lack of curiosity why two NYC detectives were interested in her former tenant and her basement.  I would've at least asked why they wanted to see my basement before leading them down and leaving them alone there after asking about my paneled wall.

 Holy Cow, that woman was so oblivious I didn't know what to think of her.  And then she comes back after they ask her to leave with tea and drops the mugs, and the mugs crash, and I have a serious eyeroll.

[GordonGartrelle]

3 hours ago, Samantha84 said:

Let's take the sexual assault out of it for a minute ......... Olivia was judging them for engaging in threesomes as opposed to Amanda who came from a 'not my cup of tea' stance. For someone who's been a detective in sex crimes Missy sure is prudish & judgmental about consensual sex. Even Fin with the lawyer who consented and had a good time as she told him. It's like, 'y'all need to get'

May you explain the "not my cup of tea" stance that represents Amanda.

[Samantha84]

'May you explain the "not my cup of tea" stance that represents Amanda.'

 

'No that's okay'. Her response when Sadie asked if she'd thought about kissing a woman's soft lips and having a man take her hard from the back. 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Samantha84

[Fellaway]

3 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

Holy Cow, that woman was so oblivious I didn't know what to think of her.  And then she comes back after they ask her to leave with tea and drops the mugs, and the mugs crash, and I have a serious eyeroll.

Seriously.  That woman was so totally devoid of interest in why they were there or in what they wanted to do in her basement, I was beginning to think she was putting it on, that she was somehow involved in the crime.  But, nope.  She was just that uncaring.  Lady, if the police start eyeing up your wall, best be interested.

I actually wondered at the legality of that, of their just ripping out her wall without permission or search warrants.  There weren't any exigent circumstances involved, after all.  I also wondered at Ava, the victim, being allowed to watch the interview of Sadie, one of the accused.  Any halfway decent defense attorney ought to be able to make hay with that for either of the accused.

[SarahPrtr]

On 1/11/2019 at 3:31 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Can Carisi and Fin get an episode where they can get the focus and not Benson and Rollins?!

NO.

 

Not unless they fire Mariska and bring Leight back.

So, no.

On 1/11/2019 at 3:35 PM, Fellaway said:

The episode was okay.  I did like seeing lots of Carisi and I LOLed at his timing, when the doctor was asking him if he never craved two women melting under him (or however he phrased it) and Carisi promptly asked for the girl's number.   Now if we could just get an episode about him... 

I don't think we've ever had a Carisi-centric episode.  They were more about the family members like his sister and niece, and not actually about Carisi.  I have no idea what they're doing with him.

 

On 1/11/2019 at 7:22 PM, tennisgurl said:

This would have been an interesting episode to have some courtroom stuff, too bad we didnt get any. 

Every. Single. Freaking. Week!!!  It is soooooooooooooo effing frustrating!!!!!!

How tf do you write a show which involves rape and murder and make it so boring that people stop watching???  Veronica Mars had so many twists and turns and that was set in freaking HIGH SCHOOL, ffs!!!!!

 

23 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Brooklyn Nine-Nine is back, so no matter what happens there will be at least one well written and interesting series about an NYPD detective squad on NBC Thursday nights!

Noiiiiiiiiice.  Toiiiiiiiiiiight.

Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool.

[wknt3]

19 hours ago, Samantha84 said:

No one is gonna talk about the ask and not answer from Olivia when Ava asked if she ever thought about sex with a woman or wanted to. I am one of those viewers whose never seen the OB/Alex chemistry but I've thought writers should have made Liv bisexual for a dozen seasons 

I think most of us noticed it, but don't really have anything new to say about it. I would love it if I thought it was something the writers were bringing back to play with again, but I have no illusions that that kind of subtext is something the current writing staff is capable of pulling off consistently or that it is something that TPTB would allow them to bring back given the transfiguration of Butchy McFabulous into St. Benson. I'm not sure if it was cheap titillation or part of their whole attempt to recapture a bygone era of SVU, but in any case it's almost certainly a throwaway moment.
 

11 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

And that woman with the house?  Had a decided lack of curiosity why two NYC detectives were interested in her former tenant and her basement.  I would've at least asked why they wanted to see my basement before leading them down and leaving them alone there after asking about my paneled wall.

 Holy Cow, that woman was so oblivious I didn't know what to think of her.  And then she comes back after they ask her to leave with tea and drops the mugs, and the mugs crash, and I have a serious eyeroll.

Again I think this was an attempt to bring back something that they don't understand how to do any more. The show used to be really great at comedy. Not just the occasional snarky remark where the characters intended to be funny, but outright comic moments rooted in the obliviousness of a character or physical comedy. For instance the classic "Master Baiter" scene. But between the loss of Meloni and Belzer and the overcorrection from the super campy last Baer years to the grimdark Amaro seasons it seems like they've forgotten how to do it. As we've mentioned they seemed to be going for something like a season 7-8 vibe throughout this episode which totally would have done this, but would have nailed the setup better (making it clear that she was more than a bit naive and so lonely she was more interested in talking to two handsome detectives than asking questions) and did better at giving is a WTF reaction from the cops to make the scene work. It's yet another of the little things that happen when you are trying to take a show back to basics without really understanding all of the nuances or being given all of the tools to do so and also not allowed to change things too much.

[marceline]

12 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

And that woman with the house?  Had a decided lack of curiosity why two NYC detectives were interested in her former tenant and her basement.  I would've at least asked why they wanted to see my basement before leading them down and leaving them alone there after asking about my paneled wall.

 Holy Cow, that woman was so oblivious I didn't know what to think of her.  And then she comes back after they ask her to leave with tea and drops the mugs, and the mugs crash, and I have a serious eyeroll.

That whole scene felt like a parody of John Mulaney's bit about how characters are so nonchalant talking to the police they don't even stop unloading the truck. I almost felt like he wrote that scene.

[Ailianna]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:02 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

So all those other women were actually consenting adults...??  

 Actually, I got the impression some of them weren't that willing, bu they didn't want to deal with making a rape charge, against a wealthy famous guy, even when they knew they weren't alone, and didn't want the video of what happened to them to be evidence, or on the 10 am chat shows/10 o'clock news.  It's hard to blame them for feeling that way.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

That whole scene felt like a parody of John Mulaney's bit about how characters are so nonchalant talking to the police they don't even stop unloading the truck. I almost felt like he wrote that scene.

That bit is so freaking funny. "Double rape and murder? Doesn't matter to this guy, he`s gotta unload that truck!

15 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

OMG yes.  In the chaos that was this episode, the gentleman that played the dad was really good.

He was really good, I was super into his scenes, even while the rest of the episode was being all over the top and crazy with plot twists. He seemed so real, it grounded this whole episode into an actual tragedy every time he showed up. 

[balmz]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That bit is so freaking funny. "Double rape and murder? Doesn't matter to this guy, he`s gotta unload that truck!

He was really good, I was super into his scenes, even while the rest of the episode was being all over the top and crazy with plot twists. He seemed so real, it grounded this whole episode into an actual tragedy every time he showed up. 

i can't get the video in my country, can you tell me what happens?

[tennisgurl]

31 minutes ago, balmz said:

i can't get the video in my country, can you tell me what happens?

John Mulaney, a comedian that I like, does a hilarious bit on "The three people you meet in every Law and Order episode" including the "Guy Who Keeps Unloading Crates While He Talks to Homicide Detectives", all those characters who are totally nonchalant about talking to detectives and are just going about their day, no matter how horrible the case it.

[GordonGartrelle]

9 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I think most of us noticed it, but don't really have anything new to say about it. I would love it if I thought it was something the writers were bringing back to play with again, but I have no illusions that that kind of subtext is something the current writing staff is capable of pulling off consistently or that it is something that TPTB would allow them to bring back given the transfiguration of Butchy McFabulous into St. Benson. I'm not sure if it was cheap titillation or part of their whole attempt to recapture a bygone era of SVU, but in any case it's almost certainly a throwaway moment.
 

Again I think this was an attempt to bring back something that they don't understand how to do any more. The show used to be really great at comedy. Not just the occasional snarky remark where the characters intended to be funny, but outright comic moments rooted in the obliviousness of a character or physical comedy. For instance the classic "Master Baiter" scene. But between the loss of Meloni and Belzer and the overcorrection from the super campy last Baer years to the grimdark Amaro seasons it seems like they've forgotten how to do it. As we've mentioned they seemed to be going for something like a season 7-8 vibe throughout this episode which totally would have done this, but would have nailed the setup better (making it clear that she was more than a bit naive and so lonely she was more interested in talking to two handsome detectives than asking questions) and did better at giving is a WTF reaction from the cops to make the scene work. It's yet another of the little things that happen when you are trying to take a show back to basics without really understanding all of the nuances or being given all of the tools to do so and also not allowed to change things too much.

. Not just the occasional snarky remark where the characters intended to be funny, but outright comic moments rooted in the obliviousness of a character or physical comedy. For instance the classic "Master Baiter" scene.

 "Not a masturbater, the (D) Master Baiter", after some poor idiot stood up.  Wow.  Classic, LOL!

[milner]

So Ceci was kidnaped and brain washed years ago and never once tried to let her parents know she was alive?  Her mom died never knowing what happened to her and that was never mentioned. Cold 

[GordonGartrelle]

4 minutes ago, milner said:

So Ceci was kidnaped and brain washed years ago and never once tried to let her parents know she was alive?  Her mom died never knowing what happened to her and that was never mentioned. Cold 

This show makes me feel like we have to teach our kids, that we love you, we will never give up on you, don't let some doucher kidnapper make you think so. 

There was another L&O: SVU, where the dad died and never knowing that his daughter was alive.

There was a L&O (MOTHERSHIP) episode based on the DC Sniper case, where the dad died never knowing his son was still alive.

18 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Seriously.  That woman was so totally devoid of interest in why they were there or in what they wanted to do in her basement, I was beginning to think she was putting it on, that she was somehow involved in the crime.  But, nope.  She was just that uncaring.  Lady, if the police start eyeing up your wall, best be interested.

I actually wondered at the legality of that, of their just ripping out her wall without permission or search warrants.  There weren't any exigent circumstances involved, after all.  I also wondered at Ava, the victim, being allowed to watch the interview of Sadie, one of the accused.  Any halfway decent defense attorney ought to be able to make hay with that for either of the accused.

I thought she was in on it only for a split second. After I didn't see a smug reaction or the lighting wasn't different or a different sound, I realized she was legit.  You must understand as a fan of all the Law and Orders and now Chicago P.D., there is a formula to tell who is in on something.  The victim and protagonist are just filmed different.

What creeped me about that scene, was that they flashed a badge and she let them into her home, and into her basement.  This woman came across as so dimwitted that I worried, what if Fin and Carisi were not real cops.  You just let two dudes into your house.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Too much Benson, oops I mean Law and not enough Order.

Now that all the personal drama is over with Stone, can we see the guy actually doing HIS JOB?

 

The only Legacy kid in the entire L&O Franchise and writers have made a complete mess of the character.

[marceline]

13 hours ago, GordonGartrelle said:

What creeped me about that scene, was that they flashed a badge and she let them into her home, and into her basement.  This woman came across as so dimwitted that I worried, what if Fin and Carisi were not real cops.  You just let two dudes into your house.

Right? And not just let them in. She started making them tea. Then took them to the basement when they asked her to and then left when they asked her to. That stunned me. 

Hey lady have you ever noticed this paneling here?
Her: No.
Why don't you go on upstairs?
Her: Okay. *leaves*

I mean who would do that?! I'd be like, "Umm this is MY house. You're here with MY permission!"

Edited January 13, 2019 by marceline

[judyri]

'look around' does not mean ripping up her wall without her permission. sloppy police work

[txhorns79]

Quote

Holy Cow, that woman was so oblivious I didn't know what to think of her.  And then she comes back after they ask her to leave with tea and drops the mugs, and the mugs crash, and I have a serious eyeroll.

She was so nonchalant about the whole thing, as though it's totally normal for the police to show up at your home and start tearing through walls in your basement.  Because threesomes were a theme of the episode, I was thinking maybe she thought she was going to be in some kind of cop sandwich and she had laced the tea with an aphrodisiac to help everyone get in the mood.

I also presume the line where the CeCe asks Olivia if she had ever been with a woman was written specifically for the promos, and the thousand or so Olex fan fiction writers.    

[GordonGartrelle]

17 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

She was so nonchalant about the whole thing, as though it's totally normal for the police to show up at your home and start tearing through walls in your basement.  Because threesomes were a theme of the episode, I was thinking maybe she thought she was going to be in some kind of cop sandwich and she had laced the tea with an aphrodisiac to help everyone get in the mood.

I also presume the line where the CeCe asks Olivia if she had ever been with a woman was written specifically for the promos, and the thousand or so Olex fan fiction writers.    

Yes, TXHORNS79, I think that may have saved the episode, LOL.

[Iguessnot]

Why was Ava allowed to listen to the interrogations of the Doc and his girlfriend?

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

Why was Ava allowed to listen to the interrogations of the Doc and his girlfriend?

Because the show abandoned the pretext of reality many seasons ago.

[howiveaddict]

On 1/12/2019 at 6:37 PM, milner said:

So Ceci was kidnaped and brain washed years ago and never once tried to let her parents know she was alive?  Her mom died never knowing what happened to her and that was never mentioned. Cold 

I wondered the same thing.  

I would have wrote the episode to have Cece killing the dead girl out of jealousy.   And then being the instigator of all the 3 ways. What would St Olivia think of that?

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

I wondered the same thing.  

I would have wrote the episode to have Cece killing the dead girl out of jealousy.   And then being the instigator of all the 3 ways. What would St Olivia think of that?

That would’ve been a superior storyline, but Mariska will not let a woman be the evil perp, all women are victims of evil men now, the few female perps we get will wind up being victims as well. Mariska’s agenda is more important than quality storylines now.