Alias - General Discussion

[Aethera]

This topic replaces the old Alias forum which has been vaulted at the location below:

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/428-alias-v/

[JES004]

So there is no longer an Alias forum?  

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I think this counts as it.

[Anduin]

I forgot to mention this previously, but better late than never. Jennifer Garner was on David Tennant's podcast a few weeks ago. Listen here if you want, or iTunes if you want to actually download it. She really worked hard on Alias. Exercise, both units, language/accent lessons, stunt practice, photoshoots, and having to limit her press time so she could learn her lines and actually sleep. But it sounds like she always worked hard. Wish I had her motivation.

Nothing much about her personal life, though they touch on her skirmishes with paparazzi. Tennant is a good interviewer, but keeps it focussed on her career.

I didn't know this before now, but they were on a show together. A sitcom called Camping. While I'd like to see the Doctor team up with Sydney Bristow, this just doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy.

[Hiyo]

Is the reboot still happening?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/alias-reboot-happening-jennifer-garner-says-camping-tv-return-1152112

[slf]

I came across a video on YT that was the former Chief of Disguise at the CIA reviewing spy disguise scenes from movies and tv shows. She was shown a scene from Alias, from I think the first episode, of Sydney disguising herself in the airport in the vibrant red wig. She said the whole scene was fantastic and that they could actually use it as a training video for agents. 

[Hiyo]

As per this site, The 15 Best Episodes to Watch Now That the Jennifer Garner Spy Drama Is on Amazon.

https://collider.com/best-alias-episodes-on-amazon-prime-jennifer-garner/#alias-season 1-episode-1-truth-be-told

[ursula]

#NotMyAmazon

No but seriously. Thank goodness for DVD box sets but where can nonUSians steam this show?

By the way, does the Amazon version have the original songs? I remember Netflix had new songs because of rights issues and it drove me crazy because the songs are so memorable.

ETA: I don't know if it's because I'm on mobile but I can't see the list of 15. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by ursula

[MVFrostsMyPie]

19 hours ago, ursula said:

 

By the way, does the Amazon version have the original songs? I remember Netflix had new songs because of rights issues and it drove me crazy because the songs are so memorable.

Nope, only some of the original songs are used. That’s why I still will pull out my original DVDs for certain episodes (or if I want to hear the cast commentary for some episodes) even though I own all the seasons on Amazon as well. 
 

First-time spy!sex just isn’t the same without “God Put a Smile Upon Your Face”. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by MVFrostsMyPie

[Hiyo]

I'm sure that is true for quite a few other scenes as well.

[ParadoxLost]

I was thinking about watching this now that its on Amazon because I didn't make it all the way through the series when it aired.  There were too many soft reboots to let new viewers pick up the show because they felt like it should have more viewers than it did.  Each one made me less and less enamored with this series.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to be able to make it through to season 4 or 5.  I just hate season 3 that much that no amount of Sydney/SpyDaddy hugs can save it.

And Vaughn was ruined retroactively.

[ursula]

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I just hate season 3 that much that no amount of Sydney/SpyDaddy hugs can save it.

 

I thought season 3 was ok until they decided to make Lauren Always Evil, and that ruined it for me. It’s also clear in retrospect that they didn’t want to commit to anything story wise because they wanted/ were waiting to get Lena Olin back.

[Umbelina]

I didn't hate season 3.  1 and 2 were by far the best seasons, but I enjoyed having Lauren on, she had amazing chemistry, and some of my my memorable scenes (aside from Spy Daddy and Syd) were with her.  I honestly didn't care much for the "new spy" they brought in when JG was pregnant, but it was more the writing, than her.  Oh, and I detested that awful get up she wore on the oil platform, what were they thinking?  I was completely uninterested in the whole Thomas Grace story though, although he had a heroic end.

I love Sark and Lauren together, very hot, and I enjoyed Vaughn's reboot of Spy Daddy's story as well.  

To me, the three things I still struggle with are:

WHY did they have to shoot Vaughn SO MANY times if he was destined to live?

WHY wasn't Irina's decision to actually try to kill Sydney more fleshed out?  (I get it, eternal life trumps having a kid, but still.)

I get why Spy Daddy died, but that one also bother me.  He couldn't have blown up the damn cave by tossing the bomb in?  

[slf]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

WHY wasn't Irina's decision to actually try to kill Sydney more fleshed out?  (I get it, eternal life trumps having a kid, but still.)

I get why Spy Daddy died, but that one also bother me.  He couldn't have blown up the damn cave by tossing the bomb in?  

I don't think I ever made if oast season three because I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm very, very glad. WTF? They killed Jack? One of the best tv dads? I will never finish this series.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Never caught this show when it was on, but catching up now on prime. My 2 cents:

I hate Sydney and Vaughn, they make me want to puke. Part of it has to do with him leaving his wife IRL for JG, and then JG dumping him for a bigger fish, but that's her MO. She dumped the guy from Felicity for MV, and the cycle continues. Karma is a bitch.

I hate JG's breathy voice, it drives me effen crazy, like Marilyn Monroe singing happy bday to Kennedy, ugggghhh.

Best character on the show is Marshall, love him!

Just started season five, glad Vaughn got shot, now I don't have to see these two interact for a while.

 

[Athena]

1 hour ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

Part of it has to do with him leaving his wife IRL for JG

Vartan was not married when he and Garner started dating. I don't think he was dating anyone at the time.

I liked Sydney and Vaughn together the first season and a bit into the second, but once they broke up IRL, their chemistry on screen definitely took a hit. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Yeah, as someone who knows way too much about MV, he definitely didn't have a wife nor was he seriously dating anyone else. But also, what two grown consenting adults want to do off-screen doesn't concern me. 

[Hiyo]

Season 3 was not good. It totally killed the momentum of the first 2 seasons. The mystery of Sydney's missing 2 years really didn't make any sense as it was playing out, and them explaining it all mid-season was a bad way for them to just try to make it all go away. And Lauren as a traitor was just no bueno.

Season 4 was a big improvement, though it helps to watch the first part of the season in the order it was produced, not the order it was aired. It makes certain plotlines less jarring (like Sydney and Vaughn's relationship, or how Syd and Marcus view Sloane).

[ursula]

Season 3 started strong but they messed up. They hinged too much on Lena Olin returning as SpyMommy and never figured out how to make the story without her.

They should have kept Allison longer and let her be Julian Sark's evil girlfriend/partner. Killing her off to replace her with Lauren was dumb, misogynistic (because of course, Sydney's romantic rival can't just be the wronged person in the triangle, she has to be an evil slut who never loved Vaughn), and borderline racist. 

Sark's billionaire father and Russian inheritance plot was ridiculous and clearly just do to fans wanting more from a character that worked better as a two-dimensional villain.

We should have explored Sydney's missing years and her trauma from it better. Instead of whitewashing Sydney where her alter ego was another superhero, Julia Thorne should have been a broken tool who committed evil actions. And since they wanted SpyMommy back so badly, we could have tied her rescue and recovery to her while keeping her behind the scenes.

Nadia's story was a last minute addition and it showed. (Although I think they played with the idea of Sark being Sydney's lost sibling, a twin because of JJ's obsession with all things Star Wars). If they had planned the season better (see my first point), they should have introduced clues about her earlier, and even introduced the character earlier in the season without revealing who she was. She also could have been tied into the mystery of Sydney's missing years.

Rambaldi made less and less sense each season. JJ should have decided what he wanted the Endgame to be and worked the mytharc accordingly. Because he kept playing a guessing game with the audience until the very end, there are just too many holes in the plot. This is a problem for the series overall, but it's worse in season 3 which really leans hard into the mythlore. 

[norcalgal]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:34 PM, ursula said:

Season 3 started strong but they messed up. They hinged too much on Lena Olin returning as SpyMommy and never figured out how to make the story without her.

"Messed up" is putting it lightly. It was putrid!  I forced myself to continue on with S4  & 5...and glad I did for how the series ended (esp. because I was a Syd/Vaughn 'shipper).  

We should have explored Sydney's missing years and her trauma from it better. Instead of whitewashing Sydney where her alter ego was another superhero, Julia Thorne should have been a broken tool who committed evil actions. And since they wanted SpyMommy back so badly, we could have tied her rescue and recovery to her while keeping her behind the scenes.

ITA to all this.

Rambaldi made less and less sense each season. JJ should have decided what he wanted the Endgame to be and worked the mytharc accordingly. Because he kept playing a guessing game with the audience until the very end, there are just too many holes in the plot. This is a problem for the series overall, but it's worse in season 3 which really leans hard into the mythlore. 

Man oh man the Rambaldi McGuffin got more and more convoluted. Still, it was not as much of a mytharc mess as The X-Files. To this day, I haven't re-watched my XF DVDs, but just recently re-watched Alias again.

 

On 6/8/2020 at 6:25 PM, Umbelina said:

I didn't hate season 3.  1 and 2 were by far the best seasons, but I enjoyed having Lauren on, she had amazing chemistry, and some of my my memorable scenes (aside from Spy Daddy and Syd) were with her.  I honestly didn't care much for the "new spy" they brought in when JG was pregnant, but it was more the writing, than her.  Oh, and I detested that awful get up she wore on the oil platform, what were they thinking?  I was completely uninterested in the whole Thomas Grace story though, although he had a heroic end.

 Yeah - I think the majority of Alias fans also feel S1-2 were the best. As for new Syd (aka Rachel) I thought it was interesting how she became the audience POV because for most of the show, we were just tossed in to Syd Bristow as Super Spy, w/o seeing her evolve to that level of awesome-ness. With Rachel, we could see how someone slowly evolves into a field agent - (and in Syd's case a badass one at that.) 

To me, the three things I still struggle with are:

WHY did they have to shoot Vaughn SO MANY times if he was destined to live? No kidding!  There is NO freaking way he should have survived those hail of bullets, but I'm so glad he did, otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten the series ending (well, Syd/Vaughn ending) I wanted.

WHY wasn't Irina's decision to actually try to kill Sydney more fleshed out?  (I get it, eternal life trumps having a kid, but still.)  I liked that Irina was a grey character throughout her run, but for me, I think her motivation to kill Syd was fleshed out OK. She was never shown as the typical loving, supportive mom but did just enough to show she cared for Sydney (saved her from the bomb blast in Europe by calling out, saving the baby's life with the procedure) not because Irina loved Syd oh so much, but because Syd's her daughter, so I can see why Irina didn't have a complete redemption story. Irina put herself first, and this is consistent with what we know about her.  

I get why Spy Daddy died, but that one also bother me.  He couldn't have blown up the damn cave by tossing the bomb in?  So Syd & Vaughn's kids only have Vaughn's mom as a grandparent, right?  Sucks because I think it'd be hilarious to imagine Spy Daddy as the hyperparanoid, suspicious, granddad who teaches the kids early on how to fend for themselves using all he knows about spycraft.

 

On 6/11/2020 at 3:46 PM, Athena said:

Vartan was not married when he and Garner started dating. I don't think he was dating anyone at the time.

I liked Sydney and Vaughn together the first season and a bit into the second, but once they broke up IRL, their chemistry on screen definitely took a hit. 

Yeah, S1-2 Syd/Vaughn chemistry was much stronger, I think because UST normally trumps RST. But also, the S3-4 storylines played into this too, imho.

On 6/11/2020 at 9:04 PM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Yeah, as someone who knows way too much about MV, he definitely didn't have a wife nor was he seriously dating anyone else. But also, what two grown consenting adults want to do off-screen doesn't concern me. 

Yes, as long as those two grown consenting adults weren't already committed to someone else, I agree. And from what I read here, looks like both Garner & MV were in the clear. Can I also confess something?  Because I floved the Syd/Vaughn relationship, I was bummed that they broke up IRL. However, to their credit, I didn't really see that affect the on-screen Syd/Vaughn relationship in S5.  Maybe that's mostly due to Garner who seems to have an ease about her with almost every co-star on Alias.

On 6/12/2020 at 10:04 PM, Hiyo said:

Season 3 was not good. It totally killed the momentum of the first 2 seasons. The mystery of Sydney's missing 2 years really didn't make any sense as it was playing out, and them explaining it all mid-season was a bad way for them to just try to make it all go away. And Lauren as a traitor was just no bueno.

Season 4 was a big improvement, though it helps to watch the first part of the season in the order it was produced, not the order it was aired. It makes certain plotlines less jarring (like Sydney and Vaughn's relationship, or how Syd and Marcus view Sloane).

How can one find out in what order episodes were produced? Maybe I need to do this...to improve my enjoyment of the season.

[Hiyo]

Quote

How can one find out in what order episodes were produced? Maybe I need to do this...to improve my enjoyment of the season.

There used to be a list online, but I can't seem to find it anymore...but I do remember someone did put up the list back in the old TWOP days.

[Hiyo]

A couple of years old, but a decent overview of the series in general. It also has some thoughts about the era the show debuted in, and what else was happening while it was on.

https://ajblackwriter.com/2018/04/09/alias-series-overview-reviews/

[Anduin]

Good article, Hiyo. God, I'd forgotten how terrible some episodes were. "Go find the Rambaldi artifact of the week. Never mind what it does, if anything." I always wondered, though, how the artifacts were manufactured and how they got where they got.

Example: I seem to remember a transparent coloured plastic disc. Did Rambaldi discover plastic 400 years early or something? Where did he find the time? Did he in fact head up a team of macguffin makers? What about funds to get a hold of the materials?

Some popped up in the Americas, IIRC. Who hauled them across? Sure, maybe someone knew about the Americas between Erikson and Colombus, but why stash the artifacts there?

[Hiyo]

If I remember correctly, the Order of Rambaldi were trying to hide his artifacts as much as possible, from people within the Order (people who had infiltrated the Order) and without, from using them for the wrong reasons. So it's possible they were the ones who hid the artifacts all over the world.

I didn't mind the Rambaldi stuff, it was fun to have Syd and co. globe trot to try and recover TAOTW. When it became clear they had no idea where they were going with the mythology of Rambaldi, that's when it became a burden on the show (sometime around season 3, I would say).

 

[Umbelina]

11 hours ago, Anduin said:

Good article, Hiyo. God, I'd forgotten how terrible some episodes were. "Go find the Rambaldi artifact of the week. Never mind what it does, if anything." I always wondered, though, how the artifacts were manufactured and how they got where they got.

Example: I seem to remember a transparent coloured plastic disc. Did Rambaldi discover plastic 400 years early or something? Where did he find the time? Did he in fact head up a team of macguffin makers? What about funds to get a hold of the materials?

Some popped up in the Americas, IIRC. Who hauled them across? Sure, maybe someone knew about the Americas between Erikson and Colombus, but why stash the artifacts there?

You mean the polymer "sun" that had the map?

Marshall actually TALKS about Rambaldi knowing how to make that way back when, so I was OK with it.  They did that quite a bit to justify various Rambaldi things, talked about it.

[Anduin]

 

14 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If I remember correctly, the Order of Rambaldi were trying to hide his artifacts as much as possible, from people within the Order (people who had infiltrated the Order) and without, from using them for the wrong reasons. So it's possible they were the ones who hid the artifacts all over the world.

I didn't mind the Rambaldi stuff, it was fun to have Syd and co. globe trot to try and recover TAOTW. When it became clear they had no idea where they were going with the mythology of Rambaldi, that's when it became a burden on the show (sometime around season 3, I would say).

 

 

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

You mean the polymer "sun" that had the map?

Marshall actually TALKS about Rambaldi knowing how to make that way back when, so I was OK with it.  They did that quite a bit to justify various Rambaldi things, talked about it.

I probably missed some stuff way back when, and it's been a long time since. The old grey matter doesn't always work properly. I actually do appreciate being filled in. Thanks!

[ursula]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Marshall actually TALKS about Rambaldi knowing how to make that way back when, so I was OK with it.  They did that quite a bit to justify various Rambaldi things, talked about it.

I won’t go that far. Yes, there was exposition for each Rambaldi gizmo... but after a while, the prophecies and the clues and the artefact jigsaw (remember when The Telling was supposed to be... something?) and the significance (and motivations) of the characters started contradicting each other - which is what tends to happen when there was lore was “make it up as you go along”. Also for someone/thing that was supposed to be a huge secret, there were a great deal of secret societies, intelligence agencies and guerilla armies that knew about Rambaldi and his gadgets. 
 

 

17 hours ago, Hiyo said:

When it became clear they had no idea where they were going with the mythology of Rambaldi, that's when it became a burden on the show (sometime around season 3, I would say).

Season 3 was when Rambaldi became the A story, and not just an overarching plot that unfolded in the background, maybe significant for one or two episodes, but then  put aside so Sydney could deal with more tangible spywork. And it might have worked if JJ and co had a plot or endgame in mind... but they didn’t. 

[MVFrostsMyPie]

It’s too bad JJ decided to move his focus at the time to Lost which I refused to watch because it became his new lovechild and it felt like he abandoned Alias. (totally still not bitter at all....)

[justmehere]

16 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

It’s too bad JJ decided to move his focus at the time to Lost which I refused to watch because it became his new lovechild and it felt like he abandoned Alias. (totally still not bitter at all....)

He did that with Lost, too, abandoning it pretty early on. Seems like a thing with at least some show creators. They've got other ideas they want to focus on and so they leave previous creations to others. Ron Moore has done it with Outlander. Phoebe Waller Bridge with Killing Eve. I'm sure there are others, but those come to mind right now. 

[Hiyo]

I don't know if those are the best comparisons to make. Moore usually stays on his shows, and with Outlander, he at least lasted 4 seasons, which JJ didn't do for either Alias or Lost. Yeah, his last bit of input for Alias was in early season 4, but he kind of ignored what was happening in season 3.

As for Phoebe Waller Bridge and Killing Eve, that show has a different showrunner each season.

I think JJ just likes moving on to the next shiny toy. He sets up great ideas but doesn't always follow through on them, and in hindsight, his TV shows were just stepping stones to get to do what he really wanted to do, movies.

[KaveDweller]

On 6/26/2020 at 6:58 PM, justmehere said:

He did that with Lost, too, abandoning it pretty early on. Seems like a thing with at least some show creators. They've got other ideas they want to focus on and so they leave previous creations to others. Ron Moore has done it with Outlander. Phoebe Waller Bridge with Killing Eve. I'm sure there are others, but those come to mind right now. 

JJ had abandoned Felicity when he got the idea for Alias too. The man has great ideas, but commitment doesn't seem to be his strengths.  At least not in terms of work/projects.

I saw a picture of Jennifer Garner with her daughter recently, and the daughter looked so grown up. My first thought was, damn, has Alias been off the air that long? I'm almost tempted to do a rewatch and see how it holds up.

[Kel Varnsen]

I have been doing a rewatch of season 1 with my wife because we have kind of run out of stuff to watch. One of the things that really impressed me this time was the quality of the production and how expensive everything looked. It is all bright and shiny, and scenes are filmed outside. When things blow up they actually blow them up. The settings for each episode look like unique locations and when Sydney and Dixon go to a party it is full of people in fancy evening wear. Even the SD-6 offices have a ton of people in them. Hell the fact that Jennifer Garner does a ton of her own fight work is impressive on its own. It is crazy to think how much this show must have cost when it was never a big hit.

Meanwhile I am slowly working my way through Agents of Shield season 6. By comparison that show looks super cheap since just about every scene is filmed with only 2 or 3 people in a non-descript, poorly lit grey windowless room. The kicker was in the episode I watched last night, I kept seeing credit card and cosmetics commercials with Jennifer Garner.

[bettername2come]

On 6/29/2020 at 10:40 PM, KaveDweller said:

JJ had abandoned Felicity when he got the idea for Alias too. The man has great ideas, but commitment doesn't seem to be his strengths.  At least not in terms of work/projects.

He does have a a lot of loyalty towards the actors he works with, which I appreciate. I mean, it's not just Greg Grunberg he takes from project to project, although he certainly holds the record. But JJ does get bored easily. 

Just starting a rewatch of Alias. Bradley Cooper looks so young. Victor Garber looks exactly the same.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/6/2020 at 6:55 PM, bettername2come said:

Just starting a rewatch of Alias. Bradley Cooper looks so young. Victor Garber looks exactly the same.

Even Jennifer Garner looks super young compared to now. I mean she still looks great  today but in season 1 I can buy she looked young enough to be a grad student. Sure way hotter than any grad student I ever had in university but the right age at least.

On 7/6/2020 at 6:55 PM, bettername2come said:

He does have a a lot of loyalty towards the actors he works with, which I appreciate. I mean, it's not just Greg Grunberg he takes from project to project, although he certainly holds the record. But JJ does get bored easily. 

My favorite of his acts of loyalty was how Ben Schwartz was basically the "Marshall" of JJ's show Undercovers and then ended up being the "voice" of BB-8 in Star Wars.

[bettername2come]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

My favorite of his acts of loyalty was how Ben Schwartz was basically the "Marshall" of JJ's show Undercovers and then ended up being the "voice" of BB-8 in Star Wars.

For me, it may have been the shock of Keri Russell in the last Star Wars movie. It had been so long, but then BAM! 20 years later showing up in his project.

[Kel Varnsen]

So I just watched "Phase One" from season two as part of my rewatch. Sydney asking Dixon for help really got me thinking, if the CIA wanted to shut down the alliance, all they would have had to do was have the US President and a bunch of world leaders go on TV and announce that the SD cells weren't official intelligence agencies. Sydney said that most of the people were like her and Dixon and thought they were CIA, so I am thinking you do that and a lot of the Alliance's workforce is going to stop showing up for work.

[Racj82]

On 6/26/2020 at 6:58 PM, justmehere said:

He did that with Lost, too, abandoning it pretty early on. Seems like a thing with at least some show creators. They've got other ideas they want to focus on and so they leave previous creations to others. Ron Moore has done it with Outlander. Phoebe Waller Bridge with Killing Eve. I'm sure there are others, but those come to mind right now. 

I don't know people keep making JJ's involvement with Lost bigger than it was. He got the show produced for tv and didn't have much of any involvement after the pilot. He didn't abandon it. 

JJ didn't really abandon any show. Showrunners who do multiple projects can't run the day to day on all of them. Shonda Rhimes, Joss Whedon, Ryan Murphy. Their first shows were their babies but after that they start to become people who oversee shows but don't run the day to day.

Someone like Bryan Fuller abandons shows. He just leaves. Not even for something else most of the time. 

[Umbelina]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:30 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

So I just watched "Phase One" from season two as part of my rewatch. Sydney asking Dixon for help really got me thinking, if the CIA wanted to shut down the alliance, all they would have had to do was have the US President and a bunch of world leaders go on TV and announce that the SD cells weren't official intelligence agencies. Sydney said that most of the people were like her and Dixon and thought they were CIA, so I am thinking you do that and a lot of the Alliance's workforce is going to stop showing up for work.

All of the Alliance field offices had kill switches, essentially.  So those in the know would have escaped and activated the bombs to kill everyone else involved.  Those moments of non belief would have left plenty of time.  Also, the Alliance was world wide, including in countries that detest the USA, so they wouldn't give a shit about something the president said.

[Umbelina]

23 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I don't know people keep making JJ's involvement with Lost bigger than it was. He got the show produced for tv and didn't have much of any involvement after the pilot. He didn't abandon it. 

JJ didn't really abandon any show. Showrunners who do multiple projects can't run the day to day on all of them. Shonda Rhimes, Joss Whedon, Ryan Murphy. Their first shows were their babies but after that they start to become people who oversee shows but don't run the day to day.

Someone like Bryan Fuller abandons shows. He just leaves. Not even for something else most of the time. 

He pretty much left Alias though.  I think he just got bored, possibly more with network interference than the actual story, but either way, he was at least partially checked out once LOST became a gleam in his eye.  

If you like commentary, which I really do, it's brought up several times when JJ is talking.  I specifically remember Jennifer Garner mentioning something like that to JJ a few times, one was about Alias being able to keep Terry O'Quinn.  

Also on one of the DVD's the "gag reel" was actually introduced by a LOST video, which yeah, maybe "cute" but it really felt like "Hey, this is what I care about now."  He didn't even show up for the rap party.

 

[KaveDweller]

On 8/9/2020 at 5:03 PM, Umbelina said:

He pretty much left Alias though.  I think he just got bored, possibly more with network interference than the actual story, but either way, he was at least partially checked out once LOST became a gleam in his eye.  

If you like commentary, which I really do, it's brought up several times when JJ is talking.  I specifically remember Jennifer Garner mentioning something like that to JJ a few times, one was about Alias being able to keep Terry O'Quinn.  

Also on one of the DVD's the "gag reel" was actually introduced by a LOST video, which yeah, maybe "cute" but it really felt like "Hey, this is what I care about now."  He didn't even show up for the rap party.

 

Yeah, if you look at the writing credits of the episodes you can see how much more involved JJ was in season 1 and 2. I think in season 3 he worked on the pilot of Lost and that was when Alias lost his attention. Even if he didn't stay super involved with Lost, he didn't come back to Alias full time when the pilot finished.

On 7/17/2020 at 10:30 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

So I just watched "Phase One" from season two as part of my rewatch. Sydney asking Dixon for help really got me thinking, if the CIA wanted to shut down the alliance, all they would have had to do was have the US President and a bunch of world leaders go on TV and announce that the SD cells weren't official intelligence agencies. Sydney said that most of the people were like her and Dixon and thought they were CIA, so I am thinking you do that and a lot of the Alliance's workforce is going to stop showing up for work.

I am guessing the CIA or the President would not want to go on record is saying this evil organization had been operating for years in the US without anyone being able to stop them. 

[Robert]

I really do need to finish this show.

I recall about 5 years ago talking on these forums about my binging of the series (back when we did it on DVDs!), but I kinda got to Series 4 before my interest fell off the map (well that and not owning a TV - by choice - for three years after that LOL).

I won't start at the beginning again (certain episodes I don't need to see again and Lord knows seeing Francie alive and happy again would be just way too sad and hurt my heart).

Saying that I am not too sure about venturing past where I stopped - early-mid season 4 - as I have been told it only goes downhill from there!

Edited August 11, 2020 by Robert

[Hiyo]

If anything, things pick up at that point and the rest of season 4 is actually pretty damn good.
 

Season 5 is a bit problematic, but it has its good moments. The second half of season 5 is pretty enjoyable too but does falter within the last few episodes, but thats mainly due to ABC giving them less episodes than they initially promised, so the last couple of episodes are very rushed.

Granted, for me, season 3 is the low point of the show, so anything after that was an improvement for me.

[Umbelina]

15 hours ago, Robert said:

I really do need to finish this show.

I recall about 5 years ago talking on these forums about my binging of the series (back when we did it on DVDs!), but I kinda got to Series 4 before my interest fell off the map (well that and not owning a TV - by choice - for three years after that LOL).

I won't start at the beginning again (certain episodes I don't need to see again and Lord knows seeing Francie alive and happy again would be just way too sad and hurt my heart).

Saying that I am not too sure about venturing past where I stopped - early-mid season 4 - as I have been told it only goes downhill from there!

It picks up, and I may not be thrilled with the ending, but it all certainly held my attention!

13 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If anything, things pick up at that point and the rest of season 4 is actually pretty damn good.
 

Season 5 is a bit problematic, but it has its good moments. The second half of season 5 is pretty enjoyable too but does falter within the last few episodes, but thats mainly due to ABC giving them less episodes than they initially promised, so the last couple of episodes are very rushed.

Granted, for me, season 3 is the low point of the show, so anything after that was an improvement for me.

I agree!  I was going to answer the first poster I quoted here, but then you said most of what I was going to say.

Although I liked Season 3, I actually liked the character and the acting of Melissa George.  I thought her chemistry with Sark was off the charts, and I adored the scenes with her family, and of course the whole Vaughn/Spy Daddy similarities and their interaction.  It could have been better, but I enjoyed it.  It has a bunch of compelling episodes as well.

  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/10/2020 at 7:39 PM, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, if you look at the writing credits of the episodes you can see how much more involved JJ was in season 1 and 2. I think in season 3 he worked on the pilot of Lost and that was when Alias lost his attention. Even if he didn't stay super involved with Lost, he didn't come back to Alias full time when the pilot finished.

I am guessing the CIA or the President would not want to go on record is saying this evil organization had been operating for years in the US without anyone being able to stop them. 

I can see the governments in most democracies wanting to warn their people that if they get recruited for SD-whatever they are actually joining a terrorist group not the CIA. And I don't think they would have to wait years before doing that.

As for Abrams also keep in mind that after Lost I believe he jumped onto Mission Impossibility 3 before getting back to Alias. Although considering that that was his first movie I am not surprised he moved onto that 

19 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If anything, things pick up at that point and the rest of season 4 is actually pretty damn good.
 

Grantedfor me, season 3 is the low point of the show, so anything after that was an improvement for me.

I am watching season 4 now for the first time since I think it aired. It is a lot of fun (Liberty Village is a great episode). Plus I love the feel of things, Dixon is back to being an agent and doing stuff plus Sydney actually has kind of a social life hanging out with her sister and Weiss and Vaughn outside of work. Not to mention I am even more impressed that the show still looks crazy expensive. They have great guest stars like Angela Bassett and Kelly Macdonald and they even played a U2 song in one episode. It seems crazy for a show in year 4 that never seemed to have a huge following.

Looking back on season three it doesn't really hold up. It was originally the first season I watched so I didn't really have the same frame of reference as I do now. But man the stuff with Lauren and her heel turn is hard to watch. And the no Will and no Francie all work all the time feel makes it much less fun. On the plus side though John Shaft and Jack's awesome storage locker.

[Dindy]

Does anyone know the "correct" order to watch the early season 4 episodes? I remember reading on the TWoP forums back in the day that the episodes were aired in a different order than intended, but I can't seem to find that info anywhere now.

[Hiyo]

Yeah, I can't find that info online anywhere either. But I too remember that list from the TWOP days as well.

It certainly makes the character dynamics in the first half of season 4 make more sense, as in the order aired, Sydney and Vaughn go hot and cold from episode to episode, Sydney and Dixon hate Sloane one episode, then they're cool with him, then they hate him again, etc.

[marihunc]

4 hours ago, Dindy said:

Does anyone know the "correct" order to watch the early season 4 episodes? I remember reading on the TWoP forums back in the day that the episodes were aired in a different order than intended, but I can't seem to find that info anywhere now.

Here you go: (saved it a long time ago and kept it so I could rewatch it in the "correct" order)

 

4x01 Authorized Personnel Only, part 1
4x02 Authorized Personnel Only, part 2
4x03 The Awful Truth
4x07 Detente
4x04 Ice
4x06 Nocturne
4x08 Echoes
4x09 A Man Of His Words
4x05 Welcome to Liberty Village
4x10 The Index
4x11 The Road Home
4x12 The Orphan
4x14 Nightingale
4x15 Pandora
4x16 Another Mister Sloane
4x13 Tuesday
4x17 A Clean Conscience
4x18 Mirage
4x19 In Dreams
4x20 The Descent
4x21 Search & Rescue
4x22 Before The Flood

[Dindy]

Thank you!!!

[Peace 47]

I fell down one of those classic YouTube rabbit holes last weekend that led me into watching an extensive series of S1 and S2 clips of this show (and two full episode), after not having watched a complete episode of the show since the series finale.  I had truly forgotten how good this show once was.

I ran across 2 favorite “small” moments that I didn’t even remember and that delighted me.  The first was when Jack, Irina and Sydney were in Kashmir, and Jack and Sydney were in the cab of a pickup truck (with Irina in a grain bin on the truck bed).  They are pulled over on the side of the road, Jack just kind of goes still for a moment after removing his facial disguise, Sydney questions why they are just sitting there, and Jack says (very resignedly), “I’m just preparing myself ... to let Irina out.”  And Syd gives him a sympathetic little smile.  The second moment was when the shit finally hits the fan with Will in S1; Sydney and Will jump into the car driven by Jack as they are being shot at, and Sydney and Jack immediately start arguing about spy stuff (and whether they should even be talking about anything in front of Will).  Will just goes, “Who are you people?”  Heh.

I’m kind of tempted to do a rewatch of S1 and S2 just to relive all those amazing moments because I think it’s on Amazon Prime.  I didn’t hate S3 as much as most people did, but it was uneven and wildly frustrating to me, so I think the S2 finale would be a good place to stop.  I did hate S4 way more than most people, so I’m definitely not itching to revisit that one. 

One of the two full eps that I watched last weekend, though, was the series finale.  I saw it there and morbid curiosity took over.  I can’t even tell you how mad that episode made me back in the day.  It no longer upsets me at all, but in watching it now, what struck me was how “hack-y” it turned once Sloane found the Rambaldi ball.  Just one cliched line after another.  (Syd:  “Give me one reason why I shouldn’t destroy this.”  Sark (revealing that he has Jack and Vaughn captive):  “I’ll give you two.” Every line in that cave is like that.)  And Irina’s death was a total ripoff of Elsa Schneider’s death in “Indiana Jones and the Last Cruscade” (Give me your hand!”)  

I have thoughts about the message they were trying to convey with Sydney’s flashbacks in that ep, but this post is long enough.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Peace 47

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I fell down one of those classic YouTube rabbit holes last weekend that led me into watching an extensive series of S1 and S2 clips of this show (and two full episode), after not having watched a complete episode of the show since the series finale.  I had truly forgotten how good this show once was.

I ran across 2 favorite “small” moments that I didn’t even remember and that delighted me.  The first was when Jack, Irina and Sydney were in Kashmir, and Jack and Sydney were in the cab of a pickup truck (with Irina in a grain bin on the truck bed).  They are pulled over on the side of the road, Jack just kind of goes still for a moment after removing his facial disguise, Sydney questions why they are just sitting there, and Jack says (very resignedly), “I’m just preparing myself ... to let Irina out.”  And Syd gives him a sympathetic little smile.  The second moment was when the shit finally hits the fan with Will in S1; Sydney and Will jump into the car driven by Jack as they are being shot at, and Sydney and Jack immediately start arguing about spy stuff (and whether they should even be talking about anything in front of Will).  Will just goes, “Who are you people?”  Heh.

I’m kind of tempted to do a rewatch of S1 and S2 just to relive all those amazing moments because I think it’s on Amazon Prime.  I didn’t hate S3 as much as most people did, but it was uneven and wildly frustrating to me, so I think the S2 finale would be a good place to stop.  I did hate S4 way more than most people, so I’m definitely not itching to revisit that one. 

One of the two full eps that I watched last weekend, though, was the series finale.  I saw it there and morbid curiosity took over.  I can’t even tell you how mad that episode made me back in the day.  It no longer upsets me at all, but in watching it now, what struck me was how “hack-y” it turned once Sloane found the Rambaldi ball.  Just one cliched line after another.  (Syd:  “Give me one reason why I shouldn’t destroy this.”  Sark (revealing that he has Jack and Vaughn captive):  “I’ll give you two.” Every line in that cave is like that.)  And Irina’s death was a total ripoff of Elsa Schneider’s death in “Indiana Jones and the Last Cruscade” (Give me your hand!”)  

I have thoughts about the message they were trying to convey with Sydney’s flashbacks in that ep, but this post is long enough.

I still love the show, but yeah, they didn't stick the landing.  I think JJ was just over it, and if he had still been involved, perhaps we would have had a better finale.

It's hard for some to know how different the show was from normal TV.  SO long before the first commercial for example, not spoon feeding everything (at least for the first two seasons!)  Drastically changing it all, and abandoning sets and premises!  Mid season!  SD 6 GONE!

I own the boxed "Rambaldi" set too, I gave my other DVD's to a friend.  Sadly, I lost my list of all the easter eggs, and there are some good ones!