SEAL Team - General Discussion

[Chas411]

This season hasn’t come to Ireland yet but what happened with Clay/Stella. They had just gotten back together in the finale.

[sigmaforce86]

I am still unreasonably angry at this episode - and I don't consider myself a big feminist - but that arrest in the bar is just full of BS.  The two guy's were clearly harassing Lisa and they placed hands on her trying to force that drink on her.  The cop never stepped in then but, she got guy #1 out of the way and she clearly knew guy #2 (a potential threat) was behind her so her being grabbed is a reasonable reaction to thinking that second guy was coming after her.  He never yelled that he was police, break it up, no warning at a;;.   Did the guys also get arrested and we didn't see it because right now we come away with the impression that it was just her and the reason was decking a cop that basically snuck up on her while she was under attack.  I truly hope they don't waste time with a bunch of hearings and we have to go through multiple episodes of her getting lectures and talked down to for this or some crazy "you'll be dishonorably discharged" cliffhanger.  Yes as a navel officer she screwed up but it's still not the plot the show needs.

The rest of the episode was OK except I'm on the fence about Jason getting a new love interest.  On the other hand if it pulls him out of his dirty studio apartment no wife no kids no career funk it would not be a bad thing.

[nittany cougar]

5 hours ago, Chas411 said:

This season hasn’t come to Ireland yet but what happened with Clay/Stella. They had just gotten back together in the finale.

I don't think she's been on the show this season.  I don't recall her being mentioned at all.  I wish she would come back.  I think the new girl is bad news. She seems to be trying to use Clay's position to advance her career.

Edited December 5, 2019 by nittanycougar

[preeya]

3 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

This season hasn’t come to Ireland yet but what happened with Clay/Stella. They had just gotten back together in the finale.

deleted by me

Edited December 5, 2019 by preeya

[Chasity]

16 hours ago, CooperTV said:

In their scene in the bar he was incredibly kind and supportive of her while trying to protect himself. Lisa wanted it both ways: be friends with him, while being intimate with him but not committing to it 100% because of her responsibilities as an officer. And Sonny clearly wants a serious, "proper", relationship with her, not a whatever surrogate that suits her right now. Sonny is clearly being wiser and more mature than her this episode.

I don't think she wanted it both ways. I think she just wants Sonny in her life whether it's as a boyfriend or a friend. When he turned down the physical aspect of their relationship, she suggested that they hang out as friends and when he turned that down as well, you could see how much she was hurting. She's forcing this relationship with her sister just so she can fill the void that Sonny left and I feel so bad for her. 

[nittany cougar]

1 minute ago, Chasity said:

I don't think she wanted it both ways. I think she just wants Sonny in her life whether it's as a boyfriend or a friend. When he turned down the physical aspect of their relationship, she suggested that they hang out as friends and when he turned that down as well, you could see how much she was hurting. She's forcing this relationship with her sister just so she can fill the void that Sonny left and I feel so bad for her. 

The reason I felt bad for Davis is because Sonny brushed her off after they just slept together.  He was so cold.  It seems like it was about revenge for Davis breaking up with him.

[preeya]

12 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I am still unreasonably angry at this episode - and I don't consider myself a big feminist - but that arrest in the bar is just full of BS.  The two guy's were clearly harassing Lisa and they placed hands on her trying to force that drink on her.  The cop never stepped in then but, she got guy #1 out of the way and she clearly knew guy #2 (a potential threat) was behind her so her being grabbed is a reasonable reaction to thinking that second guy was coming after her.  He never yelled that he was police, break it up, no warning at a;;.   Did the guys also get arrested and we didn't see it because right now we come away with the impression that it was just her and the reason was decking a cop that basically snuck up on her while she was under attack.  I truly hope they don't waste time with a bunch of hearings and we have to go through multiple episodes of her getting lectures and talked down to for this or some crazy "you'll be dishonorably discharged" cliffhanger.  Yes as a navel officer she screwed up but it's still not the plot the show needs.

The rest of the episode was OK except I'm on the fence about Jason getting a new love interest.  On the other hand if it pulls him out of his dirty studio apartment no wife no kids no career funk it would not be a bad thing.

THIS ↑

I also had reservations about the arrest and the manner in which it was handled. The cop never ID'd himself and just grabbed her from behind. The twist to the whole incident will be that he's (the cop) friends with the two scumbags and Lisa will be in deep do-do when they make it look like she was the aggressor. That is until Sonny comes to the rescue.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Her "crime" was not being situationally aware and not leaving earlier.  Naval standards for officers are no joke, especially newbies.

All those guys were Class A jackwagons.  I'd love for them to all get what's coming to them.  That does not take away from the fact she remained in a bad situation as a loner and in an unfamiliar and unseemly locale.

That she continued to pursue any type of relationship whatsoever with Sonny seals the deal that she is unfit to lead.  YMMV.  

[CooperTV]

8 hours ago, Chasity said:

When he turned down the physical aspect of their relationship, she suggested that they hang out as friends and when he turned that down as well, you could see how much she was hurting.

It was Sonny who suggested to be proper friends, actually. Not "friends-with-benefits", like she was clearly wanted ("the way it used to be", which to me says they had been having sex for a very long time before they became serious last season), but just regular no-sex-friends. He was the one who also suggested she could hang out with the team, despite them breaking up. Davis just left immediately after that because she was upset.

  

8 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

The reason I felt bad for Davis is because Sonny brushed her off after they just slept together.  He was so cold.  It seems like it was about revenge for Davis breaking up with him.

Sonny doesn't do revenge, as is clearly portrayed in the show. He gets angry and in your face about things, and he cools off after a very short time of contemplation on his behavior. He's a hot head but a very reasonable hot head. 

I don't think think he was wrong for clearing things up between him and Davis. It seems she developed a pattern after she herself broke up with him: come to him and get comfort in intimacy and/or sex, but still not label that as anything as it was before (the relationship). It's unfair towards him, and he had a right to call her on it.

Edited December 6, 2019 by CooperTV

[pasdetrois]

So are they setting Hayes up for a new job? Working in an ops center instead of leading missions?

Davis' bar arrest scene was handled badly, from a realism perspective, but I wonder if its purpose is to threaten her career storyline? In the real world, would her career be in serious trouble just because she got arrested? Since the incident occurred while on personal leave, will she have to hire her own attorney?

Also, I hope the scriptwriters are not setting her up to take the fall for the fling with Sonny. They are both complicit.

As written, most of the team reacted to Ebola as if they're just learning about it. In reality the Navy has global research teams (BUMED) that work with other agencies to fight against any diseases that threaten operational capabilities. Ebola has been a nasty threat for a long time.

Edited December 6, 2019 by pasdetrois

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Well, we finally had a direct impact on ops due to misguided loyalties and now we have an enormous unit fissure due to Davis' inability to handle her affairs.  Her practice session where she copped to badly screwing up were a decent representation as to why she is unfit to be an officer. 

I about jumped out of my chair when extremely serious priority was given to abandoning even a tertiary search for crucial intel in service of Davis' self-inflicted and utterly foolish actions.  What arrogance!  Flat dereliction of duty that there was even a moment's delay.  As we all witnessed, such hesitations can lead to catastrophe.

Now, Ray is done within Bravo.  He should not have been put in this position.

How on earth did Blackburn and Davis carry out that conversation in the unsecure hallway about the ONGOING/LIVE freaking op?  In what Navy universe would this have even occurred?  Is Blackburn daft?  Why yes, I believe he is.  He chose to reveal critical and live situational issues, knowing Davis is on incredibly shaky ground and JUST demonstrated she is unsure as to who and what she is AND can't grasp the meaning of loyalties, true and misguided?!!!!!!!!  

Lindell gave all of them unearned leeway.  He chose Bravo over his career.  He is backing known renegades standing up for one of their own, who should not have been assigned anywhere near them to begin with.  There is ZERO chance she would not be re-assigned now.  Remember, she was already under heightened scrutiny due to the unusual nature of her first assignment after commission.  Any bets as to whether all this will come to bite him badly?

Blackburn was correct about one thing:  Davis' failure/refusal to give an accounting was a demonstration of a core lack of trust for her command.  She metaphorically slapped him and Lindell in the face with her abject refusal to own up to the events.  She was effectively saying that she believed they would not appropriately have her back.   See ya.

The pillow talk with Rebecca and Clay contained a major lie.  It was said that he had not met any of her people, thus completely avoiding them..  He went to the dang reception (wake) as we saw in a recent ep.  Of course, HE was the one made to apologize to her for his lie of omission.  

Nice to know Bravo has the kind of priority a Cabinet officer has with military transport.  Is mid-air refueling standard on returns without HVT's?  No standard stopovers for refueling and perhaps air crew changes?

Whaddya know?!  Another grenade was used!  The judges will allow that the tango who threw it was in a panic and failed to properly allow for the time of detonation.  

Cerberus rules.

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Whaddya know?!  Another grenade was used!  The judges will allow that the tango who threw it was in a panic and failed to properly allow for the time of detonation.  

Cerberus rules.

It seemed like the bad guys threw it upstairs from below which was ill-considered since they were right next to the crates of explodium. Fog of war I guess. Also, grenades throw shrapnel but since this building was made out of Hollywood expectations, the frag set numerous fires.

When the guys were joking with Sonny that they weren't actually trying to rescue him, they were just looking after the dog I wondered if that was the sound of a lampshade hanging I just heard as to who is the real star of this show!

[Raja]

On 12/6/2019 at 6:32 AM, pasdetrois said:

So are they setting Hayes up for a new job? Working in an ops center instead of leading missions?

Davis' bar arrest scene was handled badly, from a realism perspective, but I wonder if its purpose is to threaten her career storyline? In the real world, would her career be in serious trouble just because she got arrested? Since the incident occurred while on personal leave, will she have to hire her own attorney?

Also, I hope the scriptwriters are not setting her up to take the fall for the fling with Sonny. They are both complicit.

Baa Baa Black Sheep and the hard drinking and fighting officers are fiction, even for an every man on deck WWII era. For an officer to hit the arrest blotter is an immediate career stopper. Ensign Davis would get the almost automatic promotion to Lieutenant JG but that would be it as she was put out from active duty and looked for civilian employment. Maybe a Naval Reserve billet somewhere would be offered, but it would not be out of bounds that she would have to give up her officer's commission and return to being a Petty Officer to get one.

I only saw part of the story line from this or the next episode but was surprised that a Navy JAG officer was not already there

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

I'm thankful they seem to be backing away from a Mandy/Jason romance.  I would have sworn in the first season that's where they were going and I am glad they seem to have decided against that.

I'm hopeful that this represents the end of the Sonny/Lisa drama. 

Every time the dog is in jeopardy, my husband and I both tell the tv they better not do anything to hurt Cerberus so we also appreciated Clay's joke to Sonny that they were only trying to save the dog.

[nittany cougar]

I think Jason's relationship with the therapist will not last.   She likes Jason and helped him rehab, but she has no clue about his mental issues.  The issues are lurking and will surface again now that he has re-deployed.  She knows he destroyed stuff in his apartment because of anger over his physical injury, but I don't think she knows that he was having disturbing dreams and hearing voices.

I think Sonny and Davis are endgame.   Most likely they will get together after one of them completes their tour of duty and is discharged.

Edited December 15, 2019 by nittanycougar

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I like the concept of a Patricia Neal/John Wayne In Harm's Way ending.  A severely wounded Sonny, fighting days obviously done, with a career naval officer Lisa, ring on her finger, taking care of him.  

FYI - Many of the cast, including DB, will be on a Price Is Right primetime special, airing NEXT Sunday, the 22nd, at 8 ET, on CBS.

[CoyoteBlue]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:24 PM, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

Every time the dog is in jeopardy, my husband and I both tell the tv they better not do anything to hurt Cerberus so we also appreciated Clay's joke to Sonny that they were only trying to save the dog.

I avtually looked up whether dogs can get ebola when I realized they didn't have an adorable little hazmat suit for him. His jump gear is still one of my favorites.

And Brock is too damn hot to be your wingman, Sonny; thank god he's attached to the dog they'll never kill. 

[TV Anonymous]

On 10/10/2019 at 8:52 AM, Raja said:

Actually like the Army Rangers you can enlist with the intention of going directly to the SEALs. That is where Petty Officer Spenser came from  when he was in the selection phase to join the Development Group (DEVGRU), what used to be  SEAL Team 6.  Just like Army Special Forces and the Delta Force have a prior enlistment so there are no Lieutenants or Privates in those units. 

If I remember correctly on The Unit Sergeant First Class Brown was among the few who did not come from the Army Rangers to become Special Forces but came from the US Cavalry since Delta has its own independent selection process from the regular Special Forces I don't think you can go to DEVGRU without finishing BUDS. or regular SEAL qualification course first.

Going to the end and the empty house and his kids not calling back Jason's seems to think his only family is the team he leads. Although you would think that the boss Lt Commander Blackburn should be about due for a new job.

I may be very well wrong, but this is my understanding.

A civilian can enlist in the Navy with the intention of going to SEAL. After Boot Camp, candidates go directly to Preparation Training then to BUDS. If they drop out, they get recycled to the tin can Navy. So supposedly one joins at 17 years old, it is conceivable to be qualified as an operator at 19 years.

However, DEVGRU is a bit different. DEVGRU recruits not only in the SEAL community but NSWC wide. Therefore, while vast majority of DEVGRU are SEALs, there are also SWCCs. DEVGRU requires candidates to be at least 21 y.o. with combat experience.

Regarding Special Forces and CAG (Delta). Special Forces candidates can come from other branches of the Army. CAG candidates however, only come from within ARSOC. Therefore CAG operators usually come from the Rangers or Special Forces.

[TV Anonymous]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:15 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

So what is the deal with Ray being a Warrant Officer? Does he have to go to officer training like Davis. I have worked with Warrant Officers in the Canadian Military but it is something different and only the Army and the Airforce have them.

Warrant Officers in the Canadian Armed Forces are completely different with those in the U.S. Armed Forces. In the CAF, WO, Master WO and Chief WO enlisted ranks (or non-commissioned members in CAF terms), comparable to perhaps SFC, MSG and SGM. The CAF do not have the rank group between NCM and commissioned officers.

WO ranks are only used by the Army and Air Force since the Royal Canadian Navy uses Petty Officers and Chief Petty Officers instead.

[Raja]

On 12/16/2019 at 5:56 AM, TV Anonymous said:

Regarding Special Forces and CAG (Delta). Special Forces candidates can come from other branches of the Army. CAG candidates however, only come from within ARSOC. Therefore CAG operators usually come from the Rangers or Special Forces.

That must have changed since my time in. Back then all you needed was a "picket fence" physical profile as the originals from Desert One were looking for a breadth of experiences and not just infantrymen for their force. The Ranger battalions being just brought back officially and the "regular" Special Forces were much smaller

[TV Anonymous]

@Raja, this is the information from the Army about MOS 18X, which is for civilians who want to enlist directly into SF.

 

[ctlady]

Can someone explain to me where that saw came from to cut through the wall to get Sonny, et al out?  Was that just hanging around because that wasn't part of their gear when they stormed in.

And with all the freakin' contraptions they have hooked to their helmet, you'd think that with the risk of coming into contact with explosives that they'd have masks on them. 

[Happy Belly]

not sure if this belongs here, so apologies in advance. The SEAL team is on primetime Price Is Right tonight...12/22/19 ...not sure what time...8:00 maybe, east coast time.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Lots of contestant success on the Price is Right show.  DB was ridiculously hype.  FWIW - This happened to be the first ep airing with TPIR model Manuela since she gave birth to her firstborn in August.

Dita (Cerberus) was the star.

Nice to see Toni, Max, Neil, and A.J.  Judd (Blackburn) made a cameo appearance with Toni last season on TPIR, but he was not on this ep.  The best interaction, imo, was when David took a Plinko disc and rubbed Max's chestal area with it for good luck.

I just saw a suggestion that the next new ep will not air for two months - Feb. 26.

[Happy Belly]

Lonesome Rhodes, I commented to my family about David’s very upbeat, over the top hype. i know he’’s the star of the show, but i really would have liked to hear and see more from his castmates (especially A.J. I’m on Sonny’s team. I think he’s yummy!). The family applauded when we first saw Dita. What a gorgeous baby. All in all, it was fun.I’m envious of the South African trip...lucky guy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I do not understand how the dude/warrant officer, who was the senior officer on site, did not have the call as to the rescue of the Doc.  How was it Blackburn's, who gave it to Jason?  That guy had no trouble issuing orders earlier and they were followed immediately.

Jason was ordered to get to new exfil/rendezvous locale.  Jason well understood that the officer giving that order was fully aware of the peril HAVOC faced and chose to not ask for assistance.  And it is just ducky for him to contravene and return to the "fallen" HAVOC base.  Insanity.

I care not that the team was gung ho.  The Doc rescue mission was ludicrous.  The team is an enormous asset.  The dollars and resources spent developing and maintaining them?  Millions.  Sorry.  They do not get to make that call.  They do not have that right.  What happens when they get captured?!

The bad guys had no grenades, RPGs or otherwise.  No air support.  No nothing beyond rifles.  And the point man, after watching any number of his comrades get killed, chose not to kill Davis.  Maybe he was another Jason who decided she was a richer jackpot and was worth the time and effort to take alive?  Nah.  He was just a humanitarian!  Geneva Conventions, y'all!

Clay simply refuses to obey the XO and can't accept his political limitations.  OK.  Resign your commission.  Thank you for your service.  

Davis' act also wears super thin.  She performed admirably.  Courageously.  Smartly.  And she decides that perfection is the only acceptable standard.  The lady just does not get it (leadership).  She made a turrible decision to seek her commission.  No way can she properly lead.  Her issues are too deep-seated.  She was a fine support sailor.  

Finally, the marksmanship on display in that last firefight we saw when the team busted out the pistols was nothing short of miraculous.  Much more effective than the automatic weaponry they had been utilizing.  Who knew? 

   

[thecdn]

@Lonesome Rhodes  The Warrant Officer might have been representing a higher headquarters (I wasn't watching closely), but he is most definately a lower rank than Blackburn who is a Lieutenant Commander.

Clay is not a commisioned officer, he has no commision to resign.

Agree that Davis's reaction is over the top. I don't watch the show closely, - the wife does and I'm in the room - but how does a logistics clerk fresh out of basic officer training become this spectacularly competent intelligence officer? I don't understand that.

 

[Netfoot]

Mandy twists the doc's arm because he is the 'acceptable collateral damage' she is comfortable with, providing her goals are achieved.

Meanwhile, after illegally entering a sovereign nation, the team embarks on a spree of multiple extra-judicial killings (murders) to fulfil their criminal objectives.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Thank you @thecdn for your corrections!  I can't believe I forgot Clay was never an officer.  He still needs to separate from the unit, if not the USN.

The other guy Lindell sent along appeared to me to be acting as his Exec.  He certainly had more command presence!  

Davis had been a logistics specialist for some time with Bravo.  She seemed to be pretty good when things got hot.  It appeared she was basically acting in a similar role for Mandy.  She is, however, a perfect exemplar of the Peter Principle.  

Anyway...thanks again!  Much appreciated.

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Meanwhile, after illegally entering a sovereign nation, the team embarks on a spree of multiple extra-judicial killings (murders) to fulfil their criminal objectives.

Bugs me every time they do it.

Laughed when they said three hours from DC to VA Beach. Not with real world traffic,

I think Clay's hair was two different colors in the episode,

Would they have left Davis alone as they were being overrun?

[nittany cougar]

50 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

I think Clay's hair was two different colors in the episode.

In the scene with his ex, his hair was dark brown.  I can't get used to it.  I liked him with the blonder hair.

I am annoyed with Natalie.  Why would she expect a SEAL to tell her a bunch of stuff about his work?  The compartmentalization is part of the deal.  I see problems down the road for those two.

I liked all the action in this episode, especially Mandy and Davis in the firefight.  

Edited February 27, 2020 by nittanycougar

[Raja]

On 2/27/2020 at 8:03 AM, thecdn said:

@Lonesome Rhodes  The Warrant Officer might have been representing a higher headquarters (I wasn't watching closely), but he is most definately a lower rank than Blackburn who is a Lieutenant Commander.

Clay is not a commisioned officer, he has no commision to resign.

Agree that Davis's reaction is over the top. I don't watch the show closely, - the wife does and I'm in the room - but how does a logistics clerk fresh out of basic officer training become this spectacularly competent intelligence officer? I don't understand that.

 

If I caught it Mr. Mack was representing the CIA special activities since Senior Chief Perry had not gotten his warrant yet. Of course after all these episodes of not seeing his counter part before they have to create the job  and role for the star to step into

[dwmarch]

Well, I can't say I saw that coming!

I think it worked well that Ray would blame himself because he did have an incident earlier where his bum shoulder (that he had been keeping quiet about) caused him to frag a kid with an unfortunate grenade toss. As I recall he was pretty torn up about that and reported it to the brass, knowing it could be the end of his career... and they came back with "ain't war hell?" and let it go.

This episode was also somewhat similar to what I consider the best episode of The Unit, which was one where they were pinned down in a forward base in Afghanistan. Aside from a bit of semi-flirting between Sonny and Lisa the characters didn't really have personal lives this episode. No Clay angst-ing over his girlfriends, no Ray worrying about supporting his wife and child, no conflict between Jason and his girlfriend and/or daughter, et cetera. For an episode that took place in three locations they sure covered a lot of ground.

The shot of Vic outside the TOC was great. There's a big red light right beside him and all kinds of "don't fuck around" warning signs everywhere.

I have to wonder, does the truth actually set the team free though? The story was that Ray threw the wrong grenade and that led to the death of the hostage. Instead, the story is that the new guy threw the wrong grenade and was prepared to keep quiet about it until he was discovered... by sensitive military equipment that was left behind by mistake. Not sure how that is supposed to be better from command's point of view.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

They tried.  TPTB reeeeallllly tried.  Full credit to them for that phenomenal disembarking scene, though (more below).

It's great that Ray decided that now it is imperative to be 100% straight about ops.  All the times he withheld his and Jason's injuries, and his binge drinking, directly endangering the team, its preparedness, and its missions?  Never miiiiind.  No trust broken.  Right?

The very fact that this mature team was willing to lie their collective sixes off is proof that they must be broken up.  They've played it so fast and loose, for so long, that this well-intentioned ep which spoke to essential honor, was rather hollow/empty.

We did get a very brief, but excellent moment, as to why Clay's politics are a cancer waiting to metastasize.

For the final version of the story to be true, the crash and the homewrecker had to explode at the precise same time.  

I'm trying to figure out why Vic never came clean.  He had no comms and his team was taking fire.  He had a chance to take it out.  He did.  It's ridiculous that he would not have told them all about it.  

Clay encountering an actual S-Vest was a nice bit of deflection/diversion.   The mission was cray cray, but the actions of the team were obviously righteous.    

One practical effect of this 12 Angry Men ep was to take heat off Jason for making a ludicrous decision to attempt the rescue.  He's already under severe scrutiny.  How can Lindell not discipline him?  Look!  Squirrel (Vic)!

Remember how low they all were on bullets?  They sure fired a lot of them, many haphazardly.  At least we finally got to see all the grenades several of them would have routinely been carrying all this time.  

Oh well.  At least we did get to see why honor and esprit de corps are so very vital.  It was good to see some bad consequences for absurd command decisions on this mission(s).  

The "bro" conversation on the ramp contained one helluva lot of hard truths.  It was refreshing to see those guys (Jason and Ray) being real.  They were able to express deepest fears and wounds, and their love for each other.  Man, our military sure pay a price for our flag (us).  

Anyway, I hope this scene might help some folks who have to deal with it all for real.  God bless them.

 

 

 

 

  

Edited March 5, 2020 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The very fact that this mature team was willing to lie their collective sixes off is proof that they must be broken up.  They've played it so fast and loose, for so long, that this well-intentioned ep which spoke to essential honor, was rather hollow/empty.

It felt to me like Plot Armour played a role in this. The writers wanted a "very special episode" where they have to fire someone because they broke the "one biggest rule" ("we have to be able to trust each other!")...but they didn't want to have to sacrifice anyone actually important.

So they sacrificed the new guy...even though I think Vic had a pretty good explanation for what he did and maybe even deserved another chance (though he still needed some punishment). Isn't part of building trust owning up to your mistakes?

It's irritating...why bring in a new character if you're only using him to get rid of him? It's a waste of a character. A lot of shows do this because I think they're worried if they get rid of a more established character they'll lose viewers (a not unreasonable fear, mind you), but the only effect this has is to make the "special episode" ring hollow. How can we feel the impact of the character's demise if we hardly know him?

Criminal Minds did the same thing with Stephen Walker (played by Damon Gupton). They brought him in for about the same amount of episodes as Vic was in and then killed him off in the S13 premiere just so the show could explore "what it feels like when the team loses a member". Except Walker was someone I hardly knew, so I didn't really feel anything, if I'm being honest, and an episode like that should make me feel something.

Maybe Vic comes back and all of this is moot...but his storyline sure felt cheap.

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

Vic had a pretty good explanation for what he did 

Throwing a grenade into a room without good knowledge about who and what are in the room is a terrible decision.

[Raja]

On 3/5/2020 at 3:20 AM, Danielg342 said:

It felt to me like Plot Armour played a role in this. The writers wanted a "very special episode" where they have to fire someone because they broke the "one biggest rule" ("we have to be able to trust each other!")...but they didn't want to have to sacrifice anyone actually important.

So they sacrificed the new guy...even though I think Vic had a pretty good explanation for what he did and maybe even deserved another chance (though he still needed some punishment). Isn't part of building trust owning up to your mistakes?

 

I was Army and we all got Roger's Ranger rules in training. 

4. Tell the truth about what you see and what you do. There is an army depending on us for correct information. You can lie all you please when you tell other folks about the Rangers, but don't never lie to a Ranger or officer.

Since people do directly apply for SEALs now the question becomes where in the fleet would be a space for Lopez if he has no other specialty? He does carry to much rank to be in an aircraft carrier's laundry room

[preeya]

QUESTION:  IRL what would happen to Vic? Where would he go? Seems like he's a "marked man" and in a no-win situation.

 

[Raja]

16 minutes ago, preeya said:

QUESTION:  IRL what would happen to Vic? Where would he go? Seems like he's a "marked man" and in a no-win situation.

 

He left his qualification badge. Probably an early out to the Naval reserve. Or make work as he figured out a new rating to strive for 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Raja

[mythoughtis]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:50 AM, FinnishViewer said:

Throwing a grenade into a room without good knowledge about who and what are in the room is a terrible decision.

In this instance,  yes, because they were searching for a hostage.   Otherwise- they throw grenades into rooms of enemy combatants all the time.  

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

In this instance,  yes, because they were searching for a hostage.   Otherwise- they throw grenades into rooms of enemy combatants all the time.  

I am the one who is always snarking "sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't ya think?" so I feel like this whole situation is partially my fault. Sorry Vic.

[Danielg342]

19 hours ago, Raja said:

I was Army and we all got Roger's Ranger rules in training. 

4. Tell the truth about what you see and what you do. There is an army depending on us for correct information. You can lie all you please when you tell other folks about the Rangers, but don't never lie to a Ranger or officer.

Since people do directly apply for SEALs now the question becomes where in the fleet would be a space for Lopez if he has no other specialty? He does carry to much rank to be in an aircraft carrier's laundry room

I understand. I just think kicking him off the team was harsh- Vic at least was remorseful and understood the gravity of his actions. He didn't get defensive and try to justify what he did- he owned up to the mistake. Punishable, yes, but recoverable, I think.

What bothered me more about Vic was that the show created him just so they could eventually sacrifice him. I think it cheapens the story they wanted to tell, because no one the audience truly cared about is going to have anything happen to them, when, in reality, this would shake up the team pretty badly.

Of course, I don't follow this show all that closely (I'll only catch it when I'm waiting for S.W.A.T. to come on), so maybe those that do can answer this question for me. Why couldn't the show use a regular character, make them make a huge blunder on the battlefield that costs the team their mission, and put that character in an arc where they have to redeem themselves to the team? S.W.A.T. did it and it was a pretty good story. Why couldn't this show? Have they done it before or something?

[Raja]

If they used a regular character, then the regular character actor losses his job as he is kicked off the team. The other guys on team may or may not have the acting chops to pull off of the scene as they are essentially Hollywood gunslingers and dog handlers to fill up the screen.

 

Vic's crime, as far as being on a team that had a 100% yes or no vote for membership, was not using the wrong grenade.  It was his willingness to allow the incident to possibly spike Senior Chief Perry's career until the magic video surfaced. And since he left one team under those circumstances going back down the hierarchy the lower level teams would not trust him either even if they never knew the full story.

[Danielg342]

7 hours ago, Raja said:

If they used a regular character, then the regular character actor losses his job as he is kicked off the team.

Not necessarily. Street got kicked off SWAT (for basically the same reasons as Vic did) to end S1 but the actor who portrayed him, Alex Russell, stayed on. Street then spent the first half of S2 working his way back on to the team, and he was successful.

So I don't see why SEAL Team couldn't do that too.

[Raja]

SEAL Team runs a bit higher on the reality versus fantasy scale than S.W.A.T 

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

He didn't get defensive and try to justify what he did- he owned up to the mistake

But he didn't own up to it until the truth was found. He was prepared to keep quiet and go with the lie.

[preeya]

On 3/9/2020 at 2:58 AM, FinnishViewer said:

But he didn't own up to it until the truth was found. He was prepared to keep quiet and go with the lie.

In which case, Ray would have suffered the consequences.

He got what he deserved.

[preeya]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:18 PM, Danielg342 said:

Not necessarily. Street got kicked off SWAT (for basically the same reasons as Vic did) to end S1 but the actor who portrayed him, Alex Russell, stayed on. Street then spent the first half of S2 working his way back on to the team, and he was successful.

So I don't see why SEAL Team couldn't do that too.

I recall Street being benched and having to re-qualify, but can't remember what he did to cause it. Would you post it?

On the same subject, IMHO, I think Military "rules" are more stringent than police SWAT) rules.

Edited March 12, 2020 by preeya

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

I recall Street being benched and having to re-qualify, but can't remember what he did to cause it. Would you post it?

Street lied to Hondo in order to get time off so he could be further manipulated by help out his mother. It was more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" infraction (because Street in S1 was difficult), but it was a trust violation still.

[nittany cougar]

I really dislike Natalie and Jason as a couple.  She is a nag and I don't care about her back story with her marriage.