Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Guest]

[Wynterwolf]

Description of the additional content from a reasonably reliable source.

[Spartan Girl]

44 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Description of the additional content from a reasonably reliable source.

If the Hulk post credits deleted scene is Professor Hulk testifying against Fuckstick Ross I will die happy.

[Jeebus Cripes]

We've spoken at length about how gross it is that Steve is making out with his "niece," but it only just occurred to me how ridiculous this scenario paints Sharon. How completely oblivious do you have to be to not recognize your uncle is Steve Rogers? That's hella embarrassing for a SHIELD agent. On top of that, you then proceed to make out with a dude that looks exactly like a young version of your uncle. That's squicky. On the other hand, if I'm assuming Sharon isn't a complete moron and knows who Uncle Steve is, then that means she knowingly put the moves on her uncle right after his wife/her aunt died. Which makes her a garbage human. Not a good look either way. 

[Spartan Girl]

24 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

We've spoken at length about how gross it is that Steve is making out with his "niece," but it only just occurred to me how ridiculous this scenario paints Sharon. How completely oblivious do you have to be to not recognize your uncle is Steve Rogers? That's hella embarrassing for a SHIELD agent. On top of that, you then proceed to make out with a dude that looks exactly like a young version of your uncle. That's squicky. On the other hand, if I'm assuming Sharon isn't a complete moron and knows who Uncle Steve is, then that means she knowingly put the moves on her uncle right after his wife/her aunt died. Which makes her a garbage human. Not a good look either way. 

Steve going back didn't change the future, it created an alternate timeline, so I'm pretty sure Sharon has a different uncle in the original timeline.

And if anyone is a garbage person in this plot, it's Steve. He initiated the kiss with Sharon, then decided he wasn't over Peggy after all and instead of trying to find his own life in the present went back in time and reinserted himself in Peggy's life, altering the happy life she built on her own with another guy for his own happiness.

No scratch that: the real garbage people are the Russos for giving us this stupid confusing ending.

[raven]

Steve kissed Sharon once, years before the events of Endgame.   That's all that's been shown on screen.  They were never even mentioned as being seen together again, never even mind as a couple; not even a throw away line.  Maybe they gave it a shot and she broke up with him.  It doesn't make either one of them a garbage person.  I don't even know if Sharon was dusted or not.

6 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

altering the happy life she built on her own with another guy for his own happiness.

Not trying to change your mind on this, but we have no idea what happened between them.  All we can do is make stuff up about it.  Your statement also takes away Peggy's agency - if she didn't want to be with Steve (assuming that's what happened) - then she wouldn't.  Also, if we go with the alternate timeline theory, it doesn't mean the other guy that Peggy ended up with in the original timeline is who she would have ended up with (if anyone) in the alternate.   If Steve doesn't try with Peggy, then again, he's making a decision for her.  She ended up with another guy presumably because Steve was gone, but we don't know what would have happened if our Steve stayed in his original timeline.  

[Jeebus Cripes]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Steve going back didn't change the future, it created an alternate timeline, so I'm pretty sure Sharon has a different uncle in the original timeline.

And if anyone is a garbage person in this plot, it's Steve. He initiated the kiss with Sharon, then decided he wasn't over Peggy after all and instead of trying to find his own life in the present went back in time and reinserted himself in Peggy's life, altering the happy life she built on her own with another guy for his own happiness.

No scratch that: the real garbage people are the Russos for giving us this stupid confusing ending.

I should have stressed this in my original post, but what I was saying is that the writers version of how time travel works puts Sharon in that very situation. Either she knew her uncle was Steve or she didn't. But according to the writers he was her uncle all along, and that makes it all 10x more absurd than originally intended. 

[Spartan Girl]

18 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I should have stressed this in my original post, but what I was saying is that the writers version of how time travel works puts Sharon in that very situation. Either she knew her uncle was Steve or she didn't. But according to the writers he was her uncle all along, and that makes it all 10x more absurd than originally intended. 

Then I stand by what I said: the writers are garbage people.

[Jeebus Cripes]

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Then I stand by what I said: the writers are garbage people.

You said the directors were, but there's plenty of blame to go around. 😉

[Lantern7]

The fat Thor gets an official name: Bro Thor. So simple, so obvious. It's beautiful.

[nomodrama]

Rewatched this today because I am a glutton for punishment and like making myself cry over and over again. 

I'm sure someone has asked, but there's 35 pages of content at this point so I'll never find it....but why did they not make Carol put on the gauntlet and make the snap? She had plenty of time to do it. Based on the extent of her powers it would be safe to assume and be reasonable that it would not kill her. I guess that might cut some of the drama out of the battle but they could have gone with it being more difficult getting the gauntlet to her in order for her to make the snap. I love Iron Man (he's my favorite actually, his death is the 2nd biggest heartbreak I had while watching this) and I get he needed to have the big hero ending, but I would rather he had lived and taken a step back from Avengering. And what a big girl power moment that would have been. 

My biggest heartbreak was Black Widow. I'm still unhappy about it. To me Black Widow is one of the most amazing characters, she hangs with a bunch of guys....and most super powered guys in some way, and she holds her own. To me she has always been the ultimate embodiment of female power. It kills me that they had her die the way she did. I don't mind the Captain America ending....he can go off and live with Peggy if he wants to, he earned it. His exit should have been Natasha's return. He should have gone back in time and in his place Black Widow should have come back, she could have the shield and give it to Sam and pass along he message from Steve. Then cut to Steve dancing with Peggy and done. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by nomodrama

[Anduin]

23 minutes ago, nomodrama said:

Rewatched this today because I am a glutton for punishment and like making myself cry over and over again. 

I'm sure someone has asked, but there's 35 pages of content at this point so I'll never find it....but why did they not make Carol put on the gauntlet and make the snap? She had plenty of time to do it. Based on the extent of her powers it would be safe to assume and be reasonable that it would not kill her. I guess that might cut some of the drama out of the battle but they could have gone with it being more difficult getting the gauntlet to her in order for her to make the snap. I love Iron Man (he's my favorite actually, his death is the 2nd biggest heartbreak I had while watching this) and I get he needed to have the big hero ending, but I would rather he had lived and taken a step back from Avengering. And what a big girl power moment that would have been.

If Tony had lived, or if RDJr had continued on as Tony, he would have been dragged back into Avengering. Remember Iron Man 3? Remember how Paul Bettany started as a voice and wound up getting painted pink? He had to die. Only way to be free. Besides, this was his last appearance. There's plenty of time for Carol to have epic moments in movies to come.

[Jeebus Cripes]

29 minutes ago, nomodrama said:

I'm sure someone has asked, but there's 35 pages of content at this point so I'll never find it....but why did they not make Carol put on the gauntlet and make the snap? She had plenty of time to do it. Based on the extent of her powers it would be safe to assume and be reasonable that it would not kill her. I guess that might cut some of the drama out of the battle but they could have gone with it being more difficult getting the gauntlet to her in order for her to make the snap.

More than likely because they really wanted Tony to die, and this was the most heroic way to go out. 

[nomodrama]

6 minutes ago, Anduin said:

If Tony had lived, or if RDJr had continued on as Tony, he would have been dragged back into Avengering. Remember Iron Man 3? Remember how Paul Bettany started as a voice and wound up getting painted pink? He had to die. Only way to be free.

5 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

More than likely because they really wanted Tony to die, and this was the most heroic way to go out.

Besides, this was his last appearance. There's plenty of time for Carol to have epic moments in movies to come.

Yeah.....I know, I know.....but it doesn't make it hurt any less. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I'm sure someone has asked, but there's 35 pages of content at this point so I'll never find it....but why did they not make Carol put on the gauntlet and make the snap? She had plenty of time to do it.

In addition to the need to give Tony a definitive ending Carol was still being developed has a character when Endgame was filmed. They had to be careful how they used her because her movie didn’t even have a script yet. 

[Raja]

4 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I'm sure someone has asked, but there's 35 pages of content at this point so I'll never find it....but why did they not make Carol put on the gauntlet and make the snap? She had plenty of time to do it. Based on the extent of her powers it would be safe to assume and be reasonable that it would not kill her. I guess that might cut some of the drama out of the battle but they could have gone with it being more difficult getting the gauntlet to her in order for her to make the snap. I love Iron Man (he's my favorite actually, his death is the 2nd biggest heartbreak I had while watching this) and I get he needed to have the big hero ending, but I would rather he had lived and taken a step back from Avengering. And what a big girl power moment that would have been. 

How do you figure that she had plenty of time? She was knocked out the fight by the power stone when Tony Stark engaged Thanos as the last man standing. Through slight of hand nanotechnology his armor stole the stones. And Thanos, who we saw in Infinity War without the stone usage, took down the Hulk much easier than either Thor or the Hulk buster armor had been able to was advancing on him.

There was also still the army out there and the Avengers would have gone into another round of keep away as they were getting more hurt. So in the middle of the battle Tony Stark would have decided somehow pass part of his armor to Captain Marvel who just dropped down to the battle from space and he had not fought with or against before and thrust her to put an end to the battle by choosing to  make the ultimate sacrifice. While Barton and Romanoff fought for the chance to make that type of sacrifice Carol Danvers had not been through such bonding with the Avengers and that is the type of mission that can't be ordered or be the expected behavior of a soldier. It is why we award medals for valor, because it goes beyond what is normal behavior.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

More than likely because they really wanted Tony to die, and this was the most heroic way to go out. 

As much as it pained me to see Tony die, I love this exchange:

Thanos: "I am inevitable."

Tony: "And I am...Ironman." SNAP.

♥️😓♥️😓

I'm trying to focus on the good and amazing stuff and just forget the last five minutes. Because Steve* was my FAVORITE character during this run. And they FUCKED IT ALL TO KINGDOM COME. My sanity and brain thanks me for this.

*No one is more surprised by this than I am, since the only other movie I saw Chris Evans in was that disastrous Fantastic Four, as the fratboy, arrogant, pompous jerk, Johnny Storm/Human Torch.

Edited June 28, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[stealinghome]

7 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I don't mind the Captain America ending....he can go off and live with Peggy if he wants to, he earned it. His exit should have been Natasha's return. He should have gone back in time and in his place Black Widow should have come back, she could have the shield and give it to Sam and pass along he message from Steve. Then cut to Steve dancing with Peggy and done. 

I really dislike Steve’s ending, BUT I would have liked it a whole lot more if Natasha had come back in Steve’s place (which is what I actually thought would happen for a minute while watching the film). If the implication was that Steve went back and saved Natasha on Vormir, and the two of them returned the rest of the stones but there were limited Pym particles and only one could come back to the future, I would not at all have minded an ending where Steve sent Natasha back to resume her life (it could have been poetically perfect had Steve and Nat brawled for who got to go back and this time Natasha lost, in fact) and then went to Peggy because he was stranded in the past. You can still have Old Steve pop up on the bench and give Sam the shield. That actually would have been a GREAT end for Steve—he makes the sacrifice by staying in the past, but is able to make a life for himself and be happy in the past in a way Natasha never would be able to do. And then Steve’s not running out on the friends who need him.

Edited June 28, 2019 by stealinghome

[Lantern7]

When is the re-release? They're making it hard for me not to go, but re-releasing a film so close after the initial launch, and throwing in added material that could make things better is a bit evil. After the credits: "Okay, so Steve basically cloned himself with the Reality Stone, dialed back the clone's memories to the 1940s (perhaps with the Mind Stone), and that's the guy that was with Peggy the whole time.  He didn't know about any of the bad shit that would happen from nineteen-forty-whatever. And Original Steve is still out there, fighting to put right what once went whatever." As much as an explanation to soothe butthurt would be nice, putting it in an "updated" version kinda sucks.

For the record, I didn't see the PG-13 version of Deadpool 2. Liked it the first time, didn't want to spend $20 on a ticket and snacks to see Ryan Reynolds and Fred Savage goof on the framing stuff from The Princess Bride.

[Raja]

Just now, Lantern7 said:

When is the re-release? They're making it hard for me not to go, but re-releasing a film so close after the initial launch, and throwing in added material that could make things better is a bit evil. After the credits:

Today, it seems they waited a week too long seeing as Spider-Man opens Tuesday, a day earlier than the normal mid week Wednesday for the Independence Day holiday crowd

[Bruinsfan]

From the way it was presented, once you died in sacrifice to the Soul Stone it couldn't be undone. So Steve could go back and make an alternate timeline where Natasha didn't die (though I guess he'd have to boot Clint off the cliff in her stead to get the stone), and bring/send her back to 2023 as happened with Gamora. But the version of her from the original timeline that jumped would still be dead, and even the stones in tandem wouldn't be able to rewind events to save her.

[Jeebus Cripes]

17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As much as it pained me to see Tony die, I love this exchange:

Thanos: "I am inevitable."

Tony: "And I am...Ironman." SNAP.

♥️😓♥️😓

I'm trying to focus on the good and amazing stuff and just forget the last five minutes. Because Steve* was my FAVORITE character during this run. And they FUCKED IT ALL TO KINGDOM COME. My sanity and brain thanks me for this.

*No one is more surprised by this than I am, since the only other movie I saw Chris Evans in was that disastrous Fantastic Four, as the fratboy, arrogant, pompous jerk, Johnny Storm/Human Torch.

Steve is my favorite, too. I am sitting at your table, waiting for you to pass the magic kool-aid that helps me forget. Evans is really good in Gifted and Before We Go (which he also directed).

[nomodrama]

19 hours ago, Raja said:

How do you figure that she had plenty of time? She was knocked out the fight by the power stone when Tony Stark engaged Thanos as the last man standing. Through slight of hand nanotechnology his armor stole the stones. And Thanos, who we saw in Infinity War without the stone usage, took down the Hulk much easier than either Thor or the Hulk buster armor had been able to was advancing on him.

There was also still the army out there and the Avengers would have gone into another round of keep away as they were getting more hurt. So in the middle of the battle Tony Stark would have decided somehow pass part of his armor to Captain Marvel who just dropped down to the battle from space and he had not fought with or against before and thrust her to put an end to the battle by choosing to  make the ultimate sacrifice. While Barton and Romanoff fought for the chance to make that type of sacrifice Carol Danvers had not been through such bonding with the Avengers and that is the type of mission that can't be ordered or be the expected behavior of a soldier. It is why we award medals for valor, because it goes beyond what is normal behavior.

There were at least a couple of seconds where she was flying with the gauntlet in her hands, trying to get to the van. About the same amount of time or more that Tony was wrestling with Thanos and managed to get the stones off of it. 

My thought process was that she was powerful enough to wear the gauntlet on her own, the way that Bruce did. No need for Tony to pass anything along to her. And I think that it was pretty much established in her film that Carol is the kind of righteous, just person who would go above and beyond and do whatever it takes to save lives, including putting her life on the line for strangers. Maybe it never occurred to her to slip it on, since they already had the plan to send everyone back using the quantum tunnel but she is probably powerful enough that she would have survived the snap.....when there was no way Tony ever stood a chance. 

Again I agree, it being Tony was motivated by the numerous reasons already stated, it is just sad that he had to die for his story to get wrapped up. 

[Zuleikha]

From the way it was presented, once you died in sacrifice to the Soul Stone it couldn't be undone.

That's not the comics canon of the Soul Stone, and there's no reason the MCU has to go that way even if it were. What happens is completely undefined. If they want to bring back Black Widow and Original Recipe Gamora, there is zero reason they can't write an escape or rescue from the Soul World. Heck, if they'd really wanted to, they could have had Steve's return of the soul stone bring back Black Widow since it's a soul for a soul.

[swanpride]

OG Gamora doesn't make a lot of sense, because that soul stone is gone, but to me it is kind of logical that if you are self-less enough to bring the stone back, the soul should be given back.

thus said, I don't think that she should have died in the first place. I think it would have been more effective when the "trick" to get to the soul stone without dying were self-sacrifice.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, nomodrama said:

There were at least a couple of seconds where she was flying with the gauntlet in her hands, trying to get to the van. About the same amount of time or more that Tony was wrestling with Thanos and managed to get the stones off of it. 

My thought process was that she was powerful enough to wear the gauntlet on her own, the way that Bruce did. No need for Tony to pass anything along to her. And I think that it was pretty much established in her film that Carol is the kind of righteous, just person who would go above and beyond and do whatever it takes to save lives, including putting her life on the line for strangers. Maybe it never occurred to her to slip it on, since they already had the plan to send everyone back using the quantum tunnel but she is probably powerful enough that she would have survived the snap.....when there was no way Tony ever stood a chance. 

Again I agree, it being Tony was motivated by the numerous reasons already stated, it is just sad that he had to die for his story to get wrapped up. 

The plan wasn't to make a second snap, it was a Tony Stark improvisation because Thanos and his army was too strong. The alternate battle plan. and Captain Marvel was not around for the planning at all she just showed up during the fight  was to get to the original Pym quantum tunnel in the van to take the stones back in time to their dispersed points in history. 

[scriggle]

If anyone's interested:

Here's what happens in the 6 extra minutes of footage from the ‘Avengers: Endgame’ rerelease

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, scriggle said:

If anyone's interested:

Here's what happens in the 6 extra minutes of footage from the ‘Avengers: Endgame’ rerelease

Thanks. Sounds missable. But the Hulk scene, they couldn't even be bothered to finish the animation? That's surprisingly lazy. Unless it'll be touched up for the final release.

[Spartan Girl]

Lame.

So the Russos bringing Ross back without comeuppance was completely pointless.

 

[Wynterwolf]

Toy Story 4 Remains #1 at the Box Office, Avengers Can’t Catch Avatar
 

Quote

Avengers: Endgame brought in $7.5 million globally, pushing it within $27 million of Avatar’s global box office total, a feat it will unlikely be able to cross now without even more help.

And the thing is... there's obviously no way to prove it, but I sincerely believe that if they hadn't fucked over Steve's character, and if they hadn't so overtly catered to the 'toxic masculinity' crowd with the underlying storytelling, and if the 'woke' moments had been more than just superficial fan service, this movie could have shattered that record without breaking a sweat. 
 

[swanpride]

Lol...that "woke" moments don't have an impact has been shown by Captain Marvel. If anything they shot themselves in the foot by having her barely in it and then killing off Black Widow, effectively disappointing nearly half of their audience.

The movie is simply too long for a quick rewatch, and the additional scenes aren't really that much of a draw. They would have to release it with some sort of directors cut.

Internationally, the heatwave doesn't help. Nobody in Europe goes to the cinema when it is THAT sunny.

[scriggle]

2 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Toy Story 4 Remains #1 at the Box Office, Avengers Can’t Catch Avatar
 

And the thing is... there's obviously no way to prove it, but I sincerely believe that if they hadn't fucked over Steve's character, and if they hadn't so overtly catered to the 'toxic masculinity' crowd with the underlying storytelling, and if the 'woke' moments had been more than just superficial fan service, this movie could have shattered that record without breaking a sweat. 
 

I know that if it hadn't disappointed me so much (Steve, Natasha, Thor), I would've gone to see it multiple times. 

I'm at the point where I disliked it so much I regret that I went once and I'm not sure if I'll shell out money for the dvd.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

Internationally, the heatwave doesn't help. Nobody in Europe goes to the cinema when it is THAT sunny.

I guess Europeans didn't grow up seeing movie theaters and malls as a source of free air conditioning 

[swanpride]

We don't. For us in the north, summerly days are rare, so we try to enjoy them as much as possible....sitting in the shadow is the "proper" way to deal with a heat wave, or hide in your own home (which usually doesn't have an AC, but can be kept cool with all kind of tricks). Once it is really so hot that you don't even want to go outside, you don't go outside, period, because you will be half dead by the time you reach the cinema.

Granted, I plan to see Far from Home. But the few times I went to the theatres during the summer they have been extremely empty. That's one of the reason why in the past, summer blockbusters often weren't shown in Europe until autumn. The only reason this changed is because internet culture demands a close release date (though animated movies often still have the delay).

[PepSinger]

I saw this movie again yesterday, and I definitely have both popular an unpopular thoughts. 

Overall, I love this movie. I really do. I wanted to see it again closer to its initial release, but a hectic work schedule prevented me from doing so. I think it’s quite a cinematic achievement and Marvel should be proud.

The “Portals” moment is hands down one of the most breathtaking moments not only in the film, but I dare say in the history of cinema. I didn’t breathe throughout the scene.

I thought Thor had the best character arc in the film. In fact, he was my favorite. Even though I’d seen the movie before, I enjoyed and laughed at his parts as if I were seeing them for the first time. He’s a truly delight and one of the reasons the movie is so great.

Steve—I loved him in this and had no problem with his ending. There. I said it. It was very easy for me to see that when Steve returned the stones, he started a different timeline where he wasn’t in the ice and was reunited with Peggy. Then, he returned to “our” timeline where Peggy did live a happy, fulfilled live in Steve’s absence, and Steve is the Captain America we all know. Also, Chris Evans was born to play Captain America.

I thought RDJ gave an outstanding performance. It is clear why he is the linchpin of the franchise.

I wanted more Captain Marvel although her not budging at Thanos’s head butt is a highlight of the movie.

l still don’t fully understand why Nebula didn’t tell the group how Thanos acquired the Soul Stone. That seems like important information.

As far as the reasons why this movie will or won’t surpass Avatar, all I will say is that this movie has a 94% score on RT which says something about how much it pleased the masses. As my mom always tells me, everything isn’t for everybody. For a movie that had a lot to cover and served as the culmination of ten years, it did extremely well.

[Jeebus Cripes]

Even if I wasn't salty about the ending, re-releasing it so close to Far From Home isn't wise, IMO. I'm saving up to see FFH. I already saw Endgame twice. Either you have an alternate ending attached that doesn't disgust me, or you don't get my money again for this film. Them's the breaks, Marvel. 

[ChromaKelly]

On 6/29/2019 at 1:27 AM, Jeebus Cripes said:

Steve is my favorite, too. I am sitting at your table, waiting for you to pass the magic kool-aid that helps me forget. Evans is really good in Gifted and Before We Go (which he also directed).

I read a fix-it fic that had Steve explain he was so broken from the snap, the five years, Nat's death and then Tony's, that that's why he fucked off to live with Peggy in the past. He felt he was so damaged he was no good to anyone in the present. Now, I still can't get over Steve abandoning his friends and all the previous character development - but this kind of makes sense as to why he would do something so completely out of character.
BTW, it's a really good fic. Bucky and Sam are hella mad at Old Steve.

[swanpride]

Nebula didn't know how Thanos got the soul stone. She only knew that he went with Gamora to Vomir and came back alone. She most likely assumed that he killed her once he got what he wanted.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I read a fix-it fic that had Steve explain he was so broken from the snap, the five years, Nat's death and then Tony's, that that's why he fucked off to live with Peggy in the past. He felt he was so damaged he was no good to anyone in the present. Now, I still can't get over Steve abandoning his friends and all the previous character development - but this kind of makes sense as to why he would do something so completely out of character.

It makes NO sense to me, because the Steve I've watched over the past decade, wasn't that selfish. I don't find this scenario a "fix-it" at ALL.

[ChromaKelly]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It makes NO sense to me, because the Steve I've watched over the past decade, wasn't that selfish. I don't find this scenario a "fix-it" at ALL.

Sigh... yeah. I know. He's completely out of his mind is the only explanation to Steve contradicting his character I can rationalize. 
I've also read some "That's not what really happened" fics, like he went back, had the dance, and then is like oh shit I can't stay here wtf, then he and Peggy go rescue frozen Steve and Bucky, Frozen Steve and Bucky get married and live their life (that's the Steve that shows up on the bench), or Frozen Steve and Peggy get married, and 2023Steve comes back later he just had a hang-up and couldn't get back right away.

[swanpride]

In my mind canon, Steve went back, rescued alternate Steve from the ice, gave him a list of stuff to change in his timeline and asked him to jump into his timeline in the future with a request to give Falcon and Bucky some closure. Meanwhile he is busy running around the alternate time-lines the Avengers created in order to help fixing what they messed up.

[Anduin]

Steve knew that if he stayed, he'd get drawn into the next Earth-shattering crisis. Besides, Bucky was functional again, Peggy was on his mind, and he'd just seen a whole army powered by both magic and science. Perfect time to get away. Good on him.

[Raja]

56 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Steve knew that if he stayed, he'd get drawn into the next Earth-shattering crisis. Besides, Bucky was functional again, Peggy was on his mind, and he'd just seen a whole army powered by both magic and science. Perfect time to get away. Good on him.

Perhaps Tony's statement of when does this end when he missed and created Ultron came to mind. We might want Captain America to also die with his boots on fighting for us, but shouldn't we allow Steve Rogers to leave the service like all the other draftees of 1939 to 1945 were allowed to.

[Bruinsfan]

I saw it again over the weekend, but this time it felt like 3 hours rather than me being breathlessly glued to one scene after the next. Worth it to see the Stan Lee tribute though. (The Far from Home preview was nothing, and I came away from the deleted scene thinking it was good that they cut it, because

Spoiler

the Hulk should have been pouring people soup out of that dish after landing from two 20-story leaps down

.)

[swanpride]

My issue is not Steve retiring. In fact, I was hoping that he would. He deserves to "come home" so to speak. My issue is that I don't buy into the idea that "home" is in 1945. Steve has spend more time as Captain America in this reality than in the past. And Peggy, well, she moved on. She had a husband, children, a fulfilled live. I also just don't see Steve sitting on his hands for decades while Bucky is getting tortured by Hydra. Everything about Steve's so called happy end sounds like hell to me. And that is what is bothering me.

[clack]

Are soldiers never allowed to retire? Law enforcement people? Must Obama, say, remain forever in the political fray? And does retirement means you've "abandoned" those friends still in the fight?

And with Steve, he was a member of the Avengers. His Avengers no longer exist. Do whom does he now owe loyalty? Bucky?

Bucky is only his friend. Do people think, "I have this career opportunity of a lifetime" or "I really want to marry the woman I love and start a family" but "doing so means I would have to move away from my best friend, so no deal?"

[ChromaKelly]

36 minutes ago, swanpride said:

My issue is not Steve retiring. In fact, I was hoping that he would. He deserves to "come home" so to speak. My issue is that I don't buy into the idea that "home" is in 1945. Steve has spend more time as Captain America in this reality than in the past. And Peggy, well, she moved on. She had a husband, children, a fulfilled live. I also just don't see Steve sitting on his hands for decades while Bucky is getting tortured by Hydra. Everything about Steve's so called happy end sounds like hell to me. And that is what is bothering me.

THIS. Also, Cap says this at the end of AoU:
 

Tony Stark : Yeah? Well, it's time for me to tap out. Maybe I should take a page out of Barton's book and build Pepper a farm, hope nobody blows it up.

Steve Rogers : The simple life.

Tony Stark : You'll get there one day.

Steve Rogers : I don't know, family, stability. The guy who wanted all that went in the ice seventy-five years ago. I think someone else came out.

Tony Stark : You alright?

Steve Rogers : I'm home.

[Spartan Girl]

21 minutes ago, clack said:

Are soldiers never allowed to retire? Law enforcement people? Must Obama, say, remain forever in the political fray? And does retirement means you've "abandoned" those friends still in the fight?

And with Steve, he was a member of the Avengers. His Avengers no longer exist. Do whom does he now owe loyalty? Bucky?

Bucky is only his friend. Do people think, "I have this career opportunity of a lifetime" or "I really want to marry the woman I love and start a family" but "doing so means I would have to move away from my best friend, so no deal?"

For the upteenth time, the woman he loved got married and moved on with her life.  The Steve in all the other Avengers/CA movies knew that and accepted that.  But Endgame Steve apparently disregarded all that and decided it was okay to go back and change history/create an alternate timeline to "fix" that scenario to his liking, instead of moving on, finding someone else, and finding his own life in the present.

It's not just what he did, it's the way he did it.

[swanpride]

Bucky isn't "only" his friend. Pretty much everything Steve has ever done was for Bucky. He marched into a prison for him. He stopped fighting the Winter Soldier as soon as the world was rescued because he believed in Bucky. He protected Bucky all through Civil War. Bucky has been the main motivator of Cap for three movies. And on the flipside: When Steve was weak and needed defending, Bucky was there for him. When Steve's mother died, Bucky was there for him. Other than the brief period between getting defrosted and Civil War, Steve spend his whole life with Bucky. Leaving him behind is like leaving behind a brother.

[festivus]

28 minutes ago, clack said:

Are soldiers never allowed to retire?

Of course they are. I just feel the Steve I watched in every movie up until this one would not. I cannot see this Steve leave not only his friends but a world that is in chaos. The people in charge of the MCU wanted Captain America out and while I can understand that I don't like the way they went about it. I would rather they have just killed him or stranded him somewhere because of having to return the stones because fucking off to go live another life is not the Steve I've been watching.