S11.E09: Thanksgiving and Taking

[friendperidot]

I thought Miguel was a Dreamer, and it's my understanding that Dreamers were brought here as young children, so they are illegal. So, why was he not arrested and taken away by ICE also? I know, his name was probably not on the truck's papers, but the agent questioned Pat. And when Phyllis spoke up that she would take care of Miguel, why did that not get the attention of the ICE agents and then question Miguel as to his paper work? Just overthinking, here.

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, friendperidot said:

I thought Miguel was a Dreamer, and it's my understanding that Dreamers were brought here as young children, so they are illegal. So, why was he not arrested and taken away by ICE also?

He's DACA, as his dad said, so he's protected from deportation - for now.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Bastet

[Tanichka]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

I think at this point with shows like this, or other stuff that's liberal-leaning, these guys aren't expecting the opposite side to become aware, or, for that matter, even watch the show. I think they're focused on reminding those who share their political persuasions that they're not alone in feeling this way about these issues, and want to continue talking about this stuff in ways that can keep supporters aware and motivated to keep fighting/calling/writing/voting/what have you. And if somebody whose politics don't align with this show does happen to watch, and does happen to change their views a little in the process, well, then, hey, bonus :). 

You do make a good point that many here are already up on their political news and whatnot, so indeed, it's not like this show's telling us about something we don't already know is happening. But it's one thing to read about stuff like this happening. It's another to actually see it. Yeah, in this case, it's fictional, but judging from the reactions of many here, it gave us the same kind of gut punch we'd have were we witnessing a real life scenario of this sort. Maybe that's another point they're trying to make, too-these people being affected by these issues don't get to escape or turn off this stuff at the end of the day, so why should the rest of us? 

I get the argument about wanting sitcoms to stay sitcoms, but if it's a sitcom that's known for having a political bent and tackling big issues already, well... 

Point taken.  I guess I’m just annoyed at the lack of  laughs, because I do enjoy political humor!

[friendperidot]

Thank you Bastet.

[Wanda]

I can’t help wondering if it’s a conscious choice to be blunter this go round with the political aspect because, let’s face it, everything about this administration IS blunter than those the writers faced during the shows original run.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/22/2018 at 11:12 PM, theredhead77 said:

I also liked that Avery stared documenting and there was no 'network battle'. Just film, deal with the distribution later. 

Unless his contract states that any footage he shoots under any circumstances belongs to Wolf, he is probably free to do whatever he wants with footage he shoots off the clock/during free-time. 

On 11/23/2018 at 10:11 AM, theredhead77 said:

I really hope they come back to it with blow back from the Wolf network (because we all know they'll find a way to spin what happened to be 'a good thing').

I was hoping Avery would post it onto some type of social media account he has and we'd get to see the blow back from Wolf as a result. 

On 11/23/2018 at 9:25 PM, Gothish520 said:

I guess I will be the lone fan to say I thought the plot turn was heavy-handed, maudlin and overly preachy. I loved everything up until that point. I totally agree with the sentiments,  and there's definitely a huge story to tell there, but I feel like they laid it on too thick.

I agree with all of this. I thought the last two episodes were the series finding its footing and heading in the right direction but this episde seemed a giant step backward. I have no problem with them dealing with this very serious and real issue. I just don't think this was the best way to do it. 

On 11/24/2018 at 9:05 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

There is no original- this is the same show. The memories are from earlier seasons. And this isn’t a remake either since it doesn’t have different actors playing Murphy, Frank, Corky and Miles, with new characters added. 

I see it as original and sequel. 

[andipandi]

Avery didn't shoot the video. Pat did on his own phone. So the video belongs to Pat.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

You do make a good point that many here are already up on their political news and whatnot, so indeed, it's not like this show's telling us about something we don't already know is happening. But it's one thing to read about stuff like this happening. It's another to actually see it. Yeah, in this case, it's fictional, but judging from the reactions of many here, it gave us the same kind of gut punch we'd have were we witnessing a real life scenario of this sort. Maybe that's another point they're trying to make, too-these people being affected by these issues don't get to escape or turn off this stuff at the end of the day, so why should the rest of us? 

Maybe part of the problem for me is that it didn't give me a gut-punch, or any sort of emotional reaction because it was not very well written, imo.  It was more of a "Huh?" for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Maybe part of the problem for me is that it didn't give me a gut-punch, or any sort of emotional reaction because it was not very well written, imo.  It was more of a "Huh?" for me.

Let me just say I'm not trying to change your mind about how you felt about this episode. But, as I mentioned up thread, Miguel's parents' situation has been a long running subplot from the first time Miguel showed up, asking Phyllis for a job. There were a few clunkers when someone mentioned "Ice" and what not. But we hadn't seen Miguel in a few episodes, so maybe that's why it seemed what happened with his parents came out of nowhere. Just trying to explain why what happened didn't have me scratching my head and asking, whut?

[Ubiquitous]

Wow, not only was this painfully unfunny and predictable,  I injured my eyes after watching the shoehorned anvicilous lecture! 🙄

[rhys]

Maybe not all viewers and posters here at PTV know there is no line for illegals. In that case, MB did them a favor.  I can just hear folks saying " just get in line & become a citizen, then you won't have to worry about being shipped back to X country. "  Granted, those people probably don't watch MB but a girl can hope.

[andipandi]

what stuck me about the newscast of the video, is candace's emotions seemed so very real. If she was acting, give her an emmy.

[proserpina65]

18 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Let me just say I'm not trying to change your mind about how you felt about this episode. But, as I mentioned up thread, Miguel's parents' situation has been a long running subplot from the first time Miguel showed up, asking Phyllis for a job. There were a few clunkers when someone mentioned "Ice" and what not. But we hadn't seen Miguel in a few episodes, so maybe that's why it seemed what happened with his parents came out of nowhere. Just trying to explain why what happened didn't have me scratching my head and asking, whut?

I know it was a long running subplot, and I didn't mean the parents' situation came out of nowhere to me.   I meant that the way the situation was handled in this episode was clunky and, imo, poorly written.  That's why my reaction was "Huh?", as in "they really couldn't have done better than that?", not "Huh?  Who are these people and why are they being arrested?".  I apologize for not expressing my thoughts better previously. 

18 hours ago, rhys said:

Maybe not all viewers and posters here at PTV know there is no line for illegals. In that case, MB did them a favor.  I can just hear folks saying " just get in line & become a citizen, then you won't have to worry about being shipped back to X country. "  Granted, those people probably don't watch MB but a girl can hope.

I think you're right - those people are unlikely to be watching a notoriously liberal show (and I mean that in a good way) to begin with.

[AntiBeeSpray]

50 minutes ago, andipandi said:

what stuck me about the newscast of the video, is candace's emotions seemed so very real. If she was acting, give her an emmy.

Yea that was very well done. Wouldn't doubt the cast had friends/people who have dealt with similar situations.

 

17 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I know it was a long running subplot, and I didn't mean the parents' situation came out of nowhere to me.   I meant that the way the situation was handled in this episode was clunky and, imo, poorly written.  That's why my reaction was "Huh?", as in "they really couldn't have done better than that?", not "Huh?  Who are these people and why are they being arrested?".  I apologize for not expressing my thoughts better previously. 

I think you're right - those people are unlikely to be watching a notoriously liberal show (and I mean that in a good way) to begin with.

I kind of reacted similarly at first, but as the scene went on, it got better. I think it was more the transition than anything else.

Edited November 28, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:15 AM, MrPissyPuppy said:

She was played by Selenis Leyva who is probably most familiar as Gloria Mendoza on Orange is the New Black.   

and early seasons of SVU I believe or maybe it was Original recipe.....she was a detective.  

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

I kind of reacted similarly at first, but as the scene went on, it got better. I think it was more the transition than anything else.

That might be it.  Maybe I'd feel differently if I watched it again.

[Sarah 103]

18 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

Wow, not only was this painfully unfunny and predictable,  I injured my eyes after watching the shoehorned anvicilous lecture! 🙄

I think the ending was my biggest problem with the episode. I have no problem with them dealing with the topic and I was totally on board with the episode until the Murphy in the Morning broadast the day after. I wished the episode had shown Murphy fighting with the network to air the footage. Have an argument between Murphy and one of the executives about objectivity and concerns that she's too emotionally involved in the story. Something that also might have worked better is if Pat posted the video to some type of social media site. Avery shares the video on his account on some type of social media site and then has to deal with the fallout from the higher-ups at Wolf. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

4 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

That might be it.  Maybe I'd feel differently if I watched it again.

Same here. I think it was done for a reason, to bring in similar emotions to how those people felt when ICE came and raided their homes and businesses.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/24/2018 at 7:12 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

And Fred Stoller was apparently who I was referring to originally, I just didn't know his name... according to IMBD he was in six episodes of the original run, playing deli guy, bartender, etc. This Thanksgiving episode doesn't yet have a cast list on IMBD, but if it was him, that's a hilarious callback.

He does a few things on King of Queen too.  He was a drive through voice in one episode and was really funny.  Sounds like he in someone's CBS contact list for voiceovers.  :) 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

and early seasons of SVU I believe or maybe it was Original recipe.....she was a detective.  

I don't recall her from early seasons of SVU and I watched that show for 10 seasons. She wasn't on Original Recipe, either. I watched ALL 20 seasons of that!

[funky-rat]

12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't recall her from early seasons of SVU and I watched that show for 10 seasons. She wasn't on Original Recipe, either. I watched ALL 20 seasons of that!

She was in 22 episodes of original L&O as Detective Rivera.  She was in a few episodes of L&O CI, and one ep of L&O SVU, but as different people than original L&O.

[TV Diva Queen]

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't recall her from early seasons of SVU and I watched that show for 10 seasons. She wasn't on Original Recipe, either. I watched ALL 20 seasons of that!

I did too.....and she was.  

 

ETA:  thanks @funky-rat

Edited November 28, 2018 by TV Diva Queen

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

She was in 22 episodes of original L&O as Detective Rivera.  She was in a few episodes of L&O CI, and one ep of L&O SVU, but as different people than original L&O.

My brain is slowly dying. Because I don't remember her at all. Ah, just checked. She was recurring during the Rohmbot years, which my brain didn't retain plots, stories, or characters.

[funky-rat]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

My brain is slowly dying. Because I don't remember her at all. Ah, just checked. She was recurring during the Rohmbot years, which my brain didn't retain plots, stories, or characters.

I didn't remember her either.  IMDB helped.  :)

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I didn't remember her either.  IMDB helped.  :)

That's where I went to find out WHICH episodes she was in! And she didn't even make the Wikipedia list of recurring characters! So that makes me feel better!

[madfortv]

The show must have done something right! We are still talking about it.

[Ailianna]

19 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I think the ending was my biggest problem with the episode. I have no problem with them dealing with the topic and I was totally on board with the episode until the Murphy in the Morning broadast the day after. I wished the episode had shown Murphy fighting with the network to air the footage. Have an argument between Murphy and one of the executives about objectivity and concerns that she's too emotionally involved in the story. Something that also might have worked better is if Pat posted the video to some type of social media site. Avery shares the video on his account on some type of social media site and then has to deal with the fallout from the higher-ups at Wolf. 

To add all of that, however, would have required a two part episode, and with the limited run, I'm not sure anyone would have wanted the show to spend tw episodes on this issue.

[Tanichka]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

 I'm not sure anyone would have wanted the show to spend tw episodes on this issue.

One was more than enough.

 

1 hour ago, madfortv said:

The show must have done something right! We are still talking about it.

Some of us don't have lives.  LOL

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, Ailianna said:

To add all of that, however, would have required a two part episode, and with the limited run, I'm not sure anyone would have wanted the show to spend tw episodes on this issue.

No it wouldn't, you'd just have to rework this episode. You just get rid of most the first act. I don't need to see half an episode of kitchen disaster. You start the episode with the turkey in the oven. The scene where Frank is showing everyone the picture or video on his smartphone of the Turkey at his sister's would work as a good place to start the episode.

Murphy: Well how was I supposed to know that turkey took that long to cook? I was trying to do something nice for my son. Between his schedule and mine, it's not every year we get to have Thanksgiving together as a family. 

Corky: I'm just glad we get to eat it. I know you spent a lot of money on it.

Avery: 350 dollars. You've been talking about it since you orderded it. 

Pat: You people wouldn't have this problem if you were vegan like me. (munches on vegan food). 

This takes care of all the set-up that's needed. 

Obviously you still have the scene in the food truck. Act 1 ends with Miguel's parents being arrested and by ICE. The second act is one of my ideas. I have no problem with them dealing with a serious issue. My problem is the way they did it. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

4 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

No it wouldn't, you'd just have to rework this episode. You just get rid of most the first act. I don't need to see half an episode of kitchen disaster. You start the episode with the turkey in the oven. The scene where Frank is showing everyone the picture or video on his smartphone of the Turkey at his sister's would work as a good place to start the episode.

Murphy: Well how was I supposed to know that turkey took that long to cook? I was trying to do something nice for my son. Between his schedule and mine, it's not every year we get to have Thanksgiving together as a family. 

Corky: I'm just glad we get to eat it. I know you spent a lot of money on it.

Avery: 350 dollars. You've been talking about it since you orderded it. 

Pat: You people wouldn't have this problem if you were vegan like me. (munches on vegan food). 

This takes care of all the set-up that's needed. 

Obviously you still have the scene in the food truck. Act 1 ends with Miguel's parents being arrested and by ICE. The second act is one of my ideas. I have no problem with them dealing with a serious issue. My problem is the way they did it. 

Then take the time to write a fic about how you'd change it. That's the best we can do.  Fans of the X Files ended up doing that with some of the episodes to have them make sense. That train wreck (in my opinion) is far, far worse than what we've seen in Murphy Brown so far.

Edited November 29, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[The Crazed Spruce]

Reminding you all that real-life politics have no place in this forum, unless it's directly mentioned in the show itself.

[Mystery]

On 11/23/2018 at 8:41 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Murphy had me crying when she teared up. And I just love Avery more and more. I know I keep saying this, but Murphy and Avery’s relationship is the BEST thing about this show. And I 😆😆 when Frank said it was his fault they all had to suffer, because Murphy was going all out to cook a turkey because she loved him and wanted to do it for him. And the nuts from Southwest Airlines!😂😂🤣🤣🤣

I really enjoyed the scene with Avery arriving and thinking yay, there was a food truck, and then being dismayed that Murphy was cooking and demanding of the others, who thought that was a good idea? It really seemed like a realistic portrayal of what it might have been like with him as a child, trying to rein in the adults who let Murphy think she could cook. 

On 11/23/2018 at 10:51 AM, dargosmydaddy said:

Was it just me, or did it sound like the actor from the original run who would show up periodically as various unhelpful people? He was the deli guy who Jim had to teach how to make a sandwich, he was tending bar at one of the award ceremonies and would claim people hadn't ordered...

 

On 11/23/2018 at 5:16 PM, AdeleDazeem said:

 At first, I thought he sounded like Brian Posehn.

I was sure it was him, and surprised that it wasn't. 

Wasn't there a Murphy Brown original episode where everyone was talking and as a distraction, Murphy pretended that they were talking about cooking and she said something like, "and then you cook it at 500 for 7 hours" or something like that? 

[Lemons]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:09 PM, friendperidot said:

I was in tears.

I was too.  Never in a million years would I think a cheesy sitcom would make me cry.  It's probably because I know families with DACA children and their parents work 2-3 jobs and can never truly relax and enjoy life.  Amnesty already.  

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Lemons said:

It's probably because I know families with DACA children and their parents work 2-3 jobs and can never truly relax and enjoy life.

Agh, that's a shame. I hope they'll be okay, and somebody can finally see to it they're protected. 

[Lemons]

14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Agh, that's a shame. I hope they'll be okay, and somebody can finally see to it they're protected. 

It is sad.  Some of their kids have married American citizens and their spouses have to worry that any day the government could eliminate the DACA program and their spouse will be kicked out of the country.  There are no other options for people who have entered illegally, even if it was 25 years ago and they have been model citizens.

[Annber03]

Thanks for highlighting how far-reaching the effects of this issue can be for people. I hope more people are made aware of that. 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Lemons said:

It is sad.  Some of their kids have married American citizens and their spouses have to worry that any day the government could eliminate the DACA program and their spouse will be kicked out of the country.  There are no other options for people who have entered illegally, even if it was 25 years ago and they have been model citizens.

I wonder if, in any future scene at Phil's, there will be a line between Phyllis and Miguel that makes clear to the audience even DACA offers no path to citizenship (which the DREAM Act, on the other hand, would have provided); Miguel is only temporarily protected from deportation, and that is by a program the president is attempting to eliminate (such a move is thus far being stayed by the federal courts, but DACA is very much in the executive cross-hairs, creating great uncertainty and worry for those currently enrolled in it).  I know this will be the only episode in which the plight of undocumented immigrants is a main storyline, but since he's a recurring character and Phyllis is now even more devoted to taking care of him, there is room for some ongoing conversation about the reality of Miguel's situation.

[Anela]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:56 PM, Annber03 said:

I think at this point with shows like this, or other stuff that's liberal-leaning, these guys aren't expecting the opposite side to become aware, or, for that matter, even watch the show. I think they're focused on reminding those who share their political persuasions that they're not alone in feeling this way about these issues, and want to continue talking about this stuff in ways that can keep supporters aware and motivated to keep fighting/calling/writing/voting/what have you. And if somebody whose politics don't align with this show does happen to watch, and does happen to change their views a little in the process, well, then, hey, bonus :). 

You do make a good point that many here are already up on their political news and whatnot, so indeed, it's not like this show's telling us about something we don't already know is happening. But it's one thing to read about stuff like this happening. It's another to actually see it. Yeah, in this case, it's fictional, but judging from the reactions of many here, it gave us the same kind of gut punch we'd have were we witnessing a real life scenario of this sort. Maybe that's another point they're trying to make, too-these people being affected by these issues don't get to escape or turn off this stuff at the end of the day, so why should the rest of us? 

I get the argument about wanting sitcoms to stay sitcoms, but if it's a sitcom that's known for having a political bent and tackling big issues already, well... 

Exactly. I might not be watching the third season of The Handmaid's Tale, because it feels like torture porn at this point, but with Murphy Brown being the way it is, you know what to expect, only you get some much-needed humour with it. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Anela

[Anela]

"A large butterball turkey like this one."

LMAO at the picture. 

That speech at the end was exactly what I would expect from this show. The only thing I was unsure of, was that they would be allowed a minute with their son. 

I also knew what to expect from Murphy promising a huge dinner, LOL. I've never cooked a turkey, and remember being shocked by how long it would take to cook, when I asked my dad why he was up at 5am on Thanksgiving. I don't know why they couldn't have thrown together a salad, though. Or didn't think to bring appetizers themselves. 

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, Anela said:

Or didn't think to bring appetizers themselves. 

Murphy told them not to bring anything (Corky asked something along the lines of "Can I bring anything?  Like, the meal?"); she was determined to do it all herself.  The same Murphy Control is why they didn't whip up a salad or eat off the food truck -- still not grasping how very long it was going to be until they ate dinner, Murphy forbade them from "ruining their appetite" for her very-expensive turkey.

[Kohola3]

Murphy's expensive turkey reminded me of The West Wing and CJ Cregg dealing with the kid (Morton or some such) sent to pick up the second turkey, the one who didn't get the presidential pardon.

CJ: I'm gonna buy him from you. Thirty bucks?

Kid:  These turkeys are $275.

CJ:  For a turkey?

Kid:  They' re specially raised.

CJ:  At the Waldorf?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Murphy told them not to bring anything (Corky asked something along the lines of "Can I bring anything?  Like, the meal?"); she was determined to do it all herself.  The same Murphy Control is why they didn't whip up a salad or eat off the food truck -- still not grasping how very long it was going to be until they ate dinner, Murphy forbade them from "ruining their appetite" for her very-expensive turkey.

Before the power went out, Murphy came out of the kitchen and told them her most excellent turkey would be ready in just one more teensy weensy hour. (I made up the teensy weensy. It was just her tone and sing-songy voice that made me think of it!)