Elizabeth Webber: Forever The Manipulative Miss Or Adorable Angel?

[Oracle42]

Since 2006, Liz has been used as a spoiler or the other party. The SOS, the jake lie, Danny/DNA and now. Considering jason and sam got together in what 2005, that's not nothing. Basically Liz was angst from 2006-2008 and then in 2010 or 2011 and now. I didn't say always. I'm sure they had other problems.

The SOS was a one night stand, the Danny lie lasted 3(?) days and Jason and Sam's split at the time was about the Franco rape, not Liz. That's less than a week total over the course of the years they were together

She wasn't angst for them from 2006-2008; Jason & Sam weren't a couple, they'd broken up and were barely interacting for most of that time period. In fact, weren't Liz and Jason dating at that point?

I think Liz's importance to the Jason/Sam relationship gets exaggerated a bit. For most of the time that Jason/Sam were together Liz just wasn't part of their lives. Which is not to say that Liz isn't important to Jason, she is - but I don't think she's been some big, constant angst for them as a couple.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Oracle42

[LeftPhalange]

It wouldn't be extreme for sam to endanger children based on what she's done in the past

 

Sam was a con who married rich men and duped them out of their money so she and her disabled brother could survive. How does that show that it's in character for her to watch a child be kidnapped or pay some goons to pull guns on Liz and her kids?

[tallyrand]

Sam and Jason were together throughout late 2006 until maybe June 2007? I believe when the metro court crisis happened they were back together. And yes sam and Jason broke up over Franco but once again whenever jason needed a flirtation there was Liz. They had all that nonsense with the birthday party, I think they kissed, Evan was revealed as the big bad so jason could save Liz. It wasn't just a two day thing. If sbu hadn't left, I think it would have gone on much longer. I'm sure jason and sam had a wonderful love story without Liz involved. My point isn't really the importance of Liz to the great Jasam but the repeated using of Liz whenever the jasam story calls for it with no respect to Liz's story or character. Jason was never seriously interested in Liz so her being involved with that Franco mess was for no purpose other than her looking like a fool . Evan was revealed as bad so jason could save her and then Liz was left with no other love interest. So while Liz might be a blip to jasam, her involvement with jason in recent years is not a blip to her charcter.

[tallyrand]

Sam was a con who married rich men and duped them out of their money so she and her disabled brother could survive. How does that show that it's in character for her to watch a child be kidnapped or pay some goons to pull guns on Liz and her kids?

 

I meant, somewhat facetiously, that since Sam did watch Jake get kidnapped and hire those guys back in 2007, in theory, it is in character for her to do something like that now.  However, this version of Sam we see on our screens would never do something like that.  Basically, Sam is being written as a "good" and perfect character right now, as are Patrick and Jakeson (to an extent).  They might be milquetoast versions of themselves, but they are the good guys.  Liz, on the other hand, is being written as the worst she can be in favor of this story. 

[Oracle42]

So while Liz might be a blip to jasam, her involvement with jason in recent years is not a blip to her charcter.

Ah. Yes, I think you're right about that. I think RC has done an amazing amount of damage to this character in a very short period of time and I don't think it was necessary or well written - but I don't think he cared any more about JaSam than he cared about the integrity of Liz's character.

It was just lazy hackery with triangles and quads instead of character development

I meant, somewhat facetiously, that since Sam did watch Jake get kidnapped and hire those guys back in 2007, in theory, it is in character for her to do something like that now. However, this version of Sam we see on our screens would never do something like that.

But that's been true since about 2008/9, that isn't new. Guza actually went to the trouble of having the character grow and change.

This Liz story might actually have been worthwhile if that had been RC's plan for Liz but given his history, he'd probably have given her Not!DID and she'd have tossed someone off the hospital roof

Edited November 2, 2015 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

Liz's "Everybody's doing it, why shouldn't I?" doesn't explain why she feels she has to be with Jason when she's said in the past, in no uncertain terms, that the mob life isn't for her. I get that she's lonely, but why didn't she glom on to Patrick then? The show really has no idea what to do with its characters.

[mybabyaidan]

So while Liz might be a blip to jasam, her involvement with jason in recent years is not a blip to her charcter.

Good point. Since I am not a Liz fan, I don't know every detail of her history. But I do know that the writers have trotted her out (usually out of nowhere) to start the fan wars going again. I remember thinking, wtf??? When Jason started his late night meetings confiding in Liz when they hadn't shared scenes in ages. If I was a Liz fan I'd be pissed at how much she tends to get the short end of the stick. She needs to be out of Jason's life for good. It doesn't do her any favors. Unfortunately, now that jake is alive she will be tethered to him forever.

[tallyrand]

Good point. Since I am not a Liz fan, I don't know every detail of her history. But I do know that the writers have trotted her out (usually out of nowhere) to start the fan wars going again. I remember thinking, wtf??? When Jason started his late night meetings confiding in Liz when they hadn't shared scenes in ages. If I was a Liz fan I'd be pissed at how much she tends to get the short end of the stick. She needs to be out of Jason's life for good. It doesn't do her any favors. Unfortunately, now that jake is alive she will be tethered to him forever.

 

Exactly.  I agree 100%.  I wish they never brought Jake back.  

[ulkis]

Good point. Since I am not a Liz fan, I don't know every detail of her history. But I do know that the writers have trotted her out (usually out of nowhere) to start the fan wars going again. I remember thinking, wtf??? When Jason started his late night meetings confiding in Liz when they hadn't shared scenes in ages. If I was a Liz fan I'd be pissed at how much she tends to get the short end of the stick. She needs to be out of Jason's life for good. It doesn't do her any favors. Unfortunately, now that jake is alive she will be tethered to him forever.

 

can they just say, turns out he's actually Lucky's after all? I'll take it. I feel like it would be too cruel to make him a fake at this point.

[KerleyQ]

Liz's "Everybody's doing it, why shouldn't I?" doesn't explain why she feels she has to be with Jason when she's said in the past, in no uncertain terms, that the mob life isn't for her. I get that she's lonely, but why didn't she glom on to Patrick then? The show really has no idea what to do with its characters.

 

The only thing I can remotely think of is that she thinks she can finally have a Jason who isn't Sonny's right hand man.  Which, I guess, is kind of similar to how RC wrote the two Todds thing over on OLTL - Tea finally got her Todd in the fake Todd - one who wasn't always about Blair and who had no sexual hangups with her. 

[WendyCR72]

Liz's "Everybody's doing it, why shouldn't I?" doesn't explain why she feels she has to be with Jason when she's said in the past, in no uncertain terms, that the mob life isn't for her. I get that she's lonely, but why didn't she glom on to Patrick then? The show really has no idea what to do with its characters.

 

As a Patrick fan, I'm glad that particular bullet was dodged, frankly.

 

But why not keep Matt? Or Ewen? As I said above, with both being tossed, it seems to me that TIIC like Liz as a shit starter, fair or not.

 

But if I recall, I saw some liking Matt and Liz...and he gets the boot because of Lisa. And reasons. Of which there were none, especially since, at that time, Patrick needed all the support and family he could get.

 

Maybe Matt/Liz wouldn't have been a "marquee" pairing, but it's a damned sight healthier for the character than what she has now.

[tallyrand]

I just loved Matt and Liz (what little we got). I thought they were so cute and it was nice watching Liz have a new cute, fun flirtation with no stupid angst.  

[Oracle42]

I actually thought a Liz pairing was easier before Jake came back - 3 kids under 10 with different fathers can be kind of a hard sell in a new romance

[WendyCR72]

Technically, Cam should be 11. Why the show insists on keeping all the boys so young is a mystery. Sure, BH looks young, but her oldest in real life is, I think, around 14 himself.

[UYI]

Technically, Cam should be 11. Why the show insists on keeping all the boys so young is a mystery. Sure, BH looks young, but her oldest in real life is, I think, around 14 himself.

 

Her oldest son, Ethan, just turned 14 on Halloween! NO EXCUSES, SHOW!

 

They actually didn't write that pregnancy into the show, as Liz was still a waitress at Kelly's and barely out of high school then. 

[dubbel zout]

Not that that would stop them these days. The only reason we don't see it is because of the child-porn laws. Actors have to be 18 to shoot love scenes, I believe.

[Ambrosefolly]

I've got a few, and trust me, they are quite unpopular:

 

1) I don't think Liz is going under any bus. She doesn't learn from her mistakes or her history, so she keeps repeating the same ones over and over, only getting worse as time goes on.

But why can't she? Why can't me, a Liz fan be shown a little consideration and have storylines with Liz growing up a little bit. Watching Liz purposefully keep people in the dark about Jason's identity, when there was no reason for Liz to have this information other than make Liz look more a crazy bitch. Everyone else, even bitch Carly can move on the different stages of life, but Liz keeps making mistake after mistake, with no one telling to get some professional help. The closest came with Lucky and her committing herself to Shadybrook. 

 

So, of course I disagree with the opinion that Liz isn't being thrown under the bus.

1. Nik just told her when it was more beneficial to keep it to himself.
2. Liz has not one, but two experiences with loved ones being taken for years. She knows that people don't fully move on. 

[WendyCR72]

Not that that would stop them these days. The only reason we don't see it is because of the child-porn laws. Actors have to be 18 to shoot love scenes, I believe.

 

Yes, but when BH was playing "high schooler" Liz, BH was close to 25 by then, so love scenes would not have been an issue (although I'm glad that kid wasn't written in; I wish the policy held on current GH!).

 

Contrast that to Zander and Emily's first time, and yeah, filming had to wait until Amber Tamblyn turned 18, which she did in 2001.

[UYI]

Yes, but when BH was playing "high schooler" Liz, BH was close to 25 by then, so love scenes would not have been an issue (although I'm glad that kid wasn't written in; I wish the policy held on current GH!).

 

Contrast that to Zander and Emily's first time, and yeah, filming had to wait until Amber Tamblyn turned 18, which she did in 2001.

 

It is crazy to me to think that when she began in 1997, Becky was 20 playing 15, because she was COMPLETELY convincing as a 15 year old!

Edited November 4, 2015 by UYI

[ulkis]

It is crazy to me to think that when she began in 1997, Becky was 20 playing 15, because she was COMPLETELY convincing as a 15 year old!

Is it that crazy they found a 20 year old who looked 15 though? I think Becky helped with her acting too.

[UYI]

Is it that crazy they found a 20 year old who looked 15 though? I think Becky helped with her acting too.

 

That absolutely helped, of course, but I think even compared to most young adults who are cast as teenagers, Becky looked pretty young, as her general lack of aging has helped support up to this day. :) 

[Ambrosefolly]

That absolutely helped, of course, but I think even compared to most young adults who are cast as teenagers, Becky looked pretty young, as her general lack of aging has helped support up to this day. :) 

Plus, I think it helped that Jonathan always came across as such a old soul. I think it helped bridge the gap.

[Oracle42]

I adored them together

[LeftPhalange]

After reading that spoiler about Liez and Sam, I really need for Helena to come collect Liez.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I meant, somewhat facetiously, that since Sam did watch Jake get kidnapped and hire those guys back in 2007, in theory, it is in character for her to do something like that now.  However, this version of Sam we see on our screens would never do something like that.  Basically, Sam is being written as a "good" and perfect character right now, as are Patrick and Jakeson (to an extent).  They might be milquetoast versions of themselves, but they are the good guys.  Liz, on the other hand, is being written as the worst she can be in favor of this story. 

 

I said this X number of months ago in the UO thread, but I do think this has, up to a point, been in character for Liz. She does have a history of being deceptive and sneaky when it comes to her relationships, even with her "true love" Lucky, and she did climb however many flights of stairs in the middle of a blackout to get to Jason. Not specifically to take a ride on his disco stick, but since that was what happened once she was there I guess that was a happy accident for her.* Yes, Lucky was a drug addict who cheated on her with his supplier, but Liz was the one who really did get knocked up and passed the kid off as his.

 

I do, however, think she would not have gone so far as to basically sexually assault Jason. I wasn't really watching at the time she was raped in the park, but although I often find that Liz has vinegar under that sugary surface, I don't think she'd do to someone else what was done to her., She's not Sam**, who banged her mother's husband on their living room floor because she was mad about Jason dumping her, and she certainly isn't Carly, who probably thinks Gone Girl is a how-to manual. As usual, the show's insistence on sinking to the absolute lowest common denominator makes no one look good, not just Liz.

 

* I don't necessarily fault Liz for sleeping with Jason during the blackout, but that was bad writing too, largely IMO meant to keep her and Jason pure by having Lucky get hooked on pills and then cheat in their bed.

 

** I like Sam despite her extremely questionable choices in men (hi, Patdick!) and there again it was more bad writing meant to make it okay for Jason and Liz to have sex because they'd been so hurt by their respective SOs.

[Bringonthedrama]

FilmTVGeek

 

Maybe because she's always talked a big talk about being a good person. And I don't think for one second she's kept quiet because she's afraid of Nik's power. I find it a little funny that you use the Niz affair as an example of how ruthless Nik can be, given that Liz was an equally willing participant in that affair. I guess that proves that she's just as ruthless as Nik.

 

Well, compared to many in Port Charles, she is. This is a town where people whose crimes like murder, kiddie kidnapping and nearly killing someone while being reckless/drunk behind the wheel get white washed/dismissed/forgotten routinely. Liz has consistently worked as a nurse in the long-term to support herself (that alone makes her more respectable than such females as Carly, Sam, Maxie, Skye), hasn't murdered anyone or caused destruction while drunk/high, has never abandoned her kids or blatantly had a favorite child, and doesn't plot to screw people over for her own gain - until this Jakeson storyline.

 

Nik showed himself to be cold/ruthless after finding out Liz was pregnant, when they they thought Aiden was his. He treated Liz like an incubator to be managed and controlled - not like a person - between announcing to Lucky that he wanted Liz to marry him, calling her doctor, getting on her case that she shouldn't be working and therefore jeopardizing "my child" while pregnant, treating Lucky like gum on his shoe when he wanted Lucky's sons and Elizabeth and baby to become a family with him and Spencer at Wyndemere. 

 

Nikolas acting the way he has with Hayden and the takeover of ELQ just reminds me of his managing/controlling/manipulating behavior when he wanted Liz for himself and wanted to not feel second-best to Lucky. I still believe he wanted to "win" Liz away from Lucky to punish Lucky for Laura choosing to leave him with the Cassadines and go back to Luke and have/raise Lucky.

 

Liz being desperate for love does not make her actions any better, IMO they're worse, than Hayden's similar actions, and yet Liz continues to act like she's Miss holier than thou and has room to judge anyone given the scam she's currently perpetrating. And, quite frankly, Liz's constant bitchy attitude with Hayden is astoundingly stupid given that she knows Hayden can blow up her lies at any moment.

 

I didn't say Liz is justified, though. I think (from Billy's first moments as Jason in that hospital bed 'til now) Becky H. has done a good job of presenting Elizabeth as a sad/desperate/lonely emotionally unstable person in need of serious therapy. When Liz first got attached to Jakeson, she didn't know who he was. Her attachment, while unhealthy, was 'innocent.'  If Liz set her sights on *winning Jason* from the moment he woke up (knowing full well who he is), then I would see her as being more like Hayden. Hayden went into the situation getting paid to target Jason, knowing what to say to try to take him away from Liz, etc. She was never innocent. The bitchy attitude is stupid, but not astonishing. In real life it's not uncommon for unhealthy/delusional people to provoke those who could have them arrested/put away ...simply because in their state of delusion they feel a sense of entitlement.

[LeftPhalange]

Just because she hasn't murdered or kidnapped anyone doesn't mean she's a good person.

[KerleyQ]

Is anyone on this show really a "good person"?  It's mostly "this person is less awful than most of the people in town," really. For the bulk of her time in town, Liz has qualified as "less awful than most of these people." 

[33kaitykaity]

That scene with Sam yesterday, give Jason some space, blah, blah, blah, gawd, Liez has got some gigantic, shiny brass ones.  

[LeftPhalange]

That scene with Sam yesterday, give Jason some space, blah, blah, blah, gawd, Liez has got some gigantic, shiny brass ones.  

 

Which need to be cut off.

[33kaitykaity]

Which need to be cut off.

Leaving her in a puddle in the middle of the floor sobbing for days and days and days for all of the pain she has helped to cause.  Nik was in on it, and Hayden, so she's not the only one to blame, but the beeyatch needs to suffer.  

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Is anyone on this show really a "good person"?  It's mostly "this person is less awful than most of the people in town," really. For the bulk of her time in town, Liz has qualified as "less awful than most of these people." 

 

While 'good person' is a relative term for soaps in general (and GH in particular, which is another conversation to have at another time) I don't think saying Liz is less awful than everyone else is any kind of a high standard to set. It isn't difficult to be less awful than most of these people, and when Liz makes speeches about how the bad people in Port Charles break the rules all the time and still get what they want, isn't that just self-justification? I don't expect moral perfection, because its a soap and that would never happen, and I don't ascribe to the belief that not being morally perfect means you're a hypocrite if you criticize characters who do terrible things, but I don't think anyone would ever say that it was okay for Nikolas or Ric (who has the Panic Room under his belt as it is) to withhold information from Liz about her identity so they could have sex with her/marry her. At best, its a clear cut case of terrible writing, and at worst its something that's almost impossible to walk her back from. YMMV.

[Badsamaritan]

While 'good person' is a relative term for soaps in general (and GH in particular, which is another conversation to have at another time) I don't think saying Liz is less awful than everyone else is any kind of a high standard to set. It isn't difficult to be less awful than most of these people, and when Liz makes speeches about how the bad people in Port Charles break the rules all the time and still get what they want, isn't that just self-justification? I don't expect moral perfection, because its a soap and that would never happen, and I don't ascribe to the belief that not being morally perfect means you're a hypocrite if you criticize characters who do terrible things, but I don't think anyone would ever say that it was okay for Nikolas or Ric (who has the Panic Room under his belt as it is) to withhold information from Liz about her identity so they could have sex with her/marry her. At best, its a clear cut case of terrible writing, and at worst its something that's almost impossible to walk her back from. YMMV.

My mileage is right in line with this. I keep thinking, if this was a man doing it to a woman, there would be such complete outrage and, yes I'll say it, calls of rape. But because Liez is wearing a fucking fuzzy pink robe, we're supposed to understand or be OK with what she's done, and continues to do.

This farce cannot be outed soon enough. I cannot watch another second of her bitchface.

[testardo]

I don't care what Liz does to Jake /Jason because he is a killer for hire, he hurt his family He stole his brothers son, and he didn't care how hurt his family was. He believed scummy Corruptous and all the BS he peddled. He is an evil mobster. He was not a good person. So a little payback from Liz fine. Jason doesn't lie, give him a halo. He steals, makes businesses pay protection , from his mob no less. He  was despicable to Sam , didn't want her to have Danny, wanted her to get an abortion. Put his nephew in danger because he was always right. He also went after his brothers wife, and the whole reason he is brain dead is because he jumped in a car with a drunk. He needed to take the blame also. SAM IS SO MUCH BETTER OFF WITHOUT HER CHILD LIVING WITH Jason. Liz needs a slap to remind her once Jason remembers her kids are in danger. WHEN DID Jason GET A HALO. HE KILLS AND STEALS FOR A LIVING . Whats so funny about this I don't even dislike Liz or Sam. Jason I hate for all the pain he gave AJ.

[tvgoddess]

I cannot stand this thread title. It makes her sound like a teenager instead of a grown ass woman.

Edited November 20, 2015 by tvgoddess

[katie9918]

Jesus, Liz needs a nice little rest after this.

Unfortunately, I can't think of anything they can replace her crazy ass with unless they plan to give Mac some more screen time.

[WendyCR72]

I cannot stand this thread title. It makes her sound like a teenager instead of a grown ass woman.

 

When she acts like a grown woman, let me know. (She is not alone; most of the women are written poorly, but yeah. She is acting like a scorned teenager after the star quarterback.)

[tvgoddess]

Agreed, but adorable angel should really be a term used for four-year-olds. Maybe teenager was too generous.

[ulkis]

Enduro should have never left the title, dammit. Not that I'm biased or anything.

[WendyCR72]

Enduro should have never left the title, dammit. Not that I'm biased or anything.

 

Hee. The title should now just say, "Batshit Crazy With A Side of Arrogant Smirk!" So this one is actually tame.

[HeatLifer]

I just watched Lucky's '99 funeral and I just...miss Liz.

[UYI]

Hee. The title should now just say, "Batshit Crazy With A Side of Arrogant Smirk!" So this one is actually tame.

 

 

 

I cannot stand this thread title. It makes her sound like a teenager instead of a grown ass woman.

 

How about Queen of the Bitchface? It works for both sides! (Albeit for different reasons.)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I don't care what Liz does to Jake /Jason because he is a killer for hire, he hurt his family He stole his brothers son, and he didn't care how hurt his family was. He believed scummy Corruptous and all the BS he peddled. He is an evil mobster. He was not a good person. So a little payback from Liz fine.

 

Except IMO it isn't really about whether or not Jason is/was/could be a good person. Fair enough to say that he became a horror show after his head hit that tree, and I'll be straight up and say that I cheered when Fonduke shot him in the back and kicked him into the harbor. Where I wish he'd stayed.

 

But I'll be equally straight up and say that Liz is supposed to be a good person, or so she'd have people believe. Whose BS is she believing other than her own  that she thinks it's okay to have sex with someone under false pretenses, knowing that the man she's bedding down with would leave her in a hot second if he had what passes for his wits about him? Even if I'm being generous and not calling it rape or "just" sexual assault, isn't she supposed to be better than this? Lie about her kids' paternity? Sure. Cheat with her fiancee's brother, then refuse to back out of the engagement when said fiancee gives her the chance? Yeah, why not. Shred files for a hitman, even though it could cost the man she supposedly loves his job? Absolutely. When does it become out of character, even if the writing is completely terrible?

[yowsah1]

Whose BS is she believing other than her own that she thinks it's okay to have sex with someone under false pretenses, knowing that the man she's bedding down with would leave her in a hot second if he had what passes for his wits about him?

The writers have made it clear that this assertion may well not be true.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

The writers have made it clear that this assertion may well not be true.

I'm assuming you mean because he hasn't left her yet and says he still loves her. But, leaving aside that Jason would leave her in a hot second if he knew she was lying to him, the only reason he's staying right now is because he doesn't have his memories back. If he did, I don't doubt he'd make tracks back to Sam and Liz knows it, too which is why she's so hellbent on Jason not pushing to regain his memories. The show likes to pretend Jason is noble and good, so they'd probably have him hem and haw a little about who to choose, like Patrick did when he had to decide between Robin and Sabrina, but he'd choose Sam.

[yowsah1]

From the episode discussion thread:

 

There was no need to destroy Liz in this story just for the sake of Jason and Sam.

 

There was no need to destory Liz in this story, period.  Not only that, there was no need for this story.

 

Its beyond propping at this point because the writing is so heavy handed. Liz is an evil bitch, and Sam and Jason are the poor innocent little victims of her evil plans.

 

Don't forget Patrick.  The obvious choice to be the one to figure out the secret, the person who actually had decent motivation not to reveal the truth - nope, he's just a poor put-upon victim of Liz the Evilest Evil To Ever Evil, right along with the rest.

 

It would be one thing if I thought that the writers had any plans to redeem Liz after all this bullshit, but she's nothing but an obstacle for Jasam, who will just be backburned once this is all out. She'll be alone, probably have her kids taken away from her, while the writers just move on. Its gross that a veteran character is being treated this way.

 

What's even grosser is that the writers have made sure that every single person involved in this stupid shitstory EXCEPT LIZ will come in for a soft landing.  Jason and Sam will get a joyous reunion.  Patrick will suddenly decide he loves Robin after all and get a joyous reunion with her.  Nik, if he suffers even the slightest consequences for setting this whole disaster in motion in the first place - which I highly doubt he will - will get to console himself with the lovely and available Hayden.  What does Liz get?  What's her consolation prize?  Oh, right, Liz gets nothing but heartbreak and humiliation and not the slightest bit of redemption.

 

There's no reason for a Liz fan to watch any of this.  The show couldn't be more obvious about the fact that it is giving them the back of their hand.

 

Patrick and Liz have had crappy writing for a while. I don't get how its put on Sam.

 

Her character is perceived as being the direct beneficiary of other characters being either podded (Patrick), or completely destroyed (Liz).

[UYI]

I am here only to say that my Queen of the Bitchface idea re: the title thread is great and would please both Liz fans and detractors.

 

Just saying. :P

[LeftPhalange]

It feels like some Liz fans think she's the only character suffering from poor writing and that's just not true. So many characters that existed before Ron took over have been written wildly out of character and trashed. Liz isn't even the only character being trashed in this current Jason story. It could even be argued that she isn't even getting the worse of it. At least she isn't actively trying to have someone murdered. Patrick is a pod who doesn't seem to care about the mother of his child. Robert and Anna don't seem to care about their daughter. Laura is keeping her mouth shut and letting Liz get away with this. Lucky barely had a reaction when he found out and just up and left his kids in the care of a crazy person. Nik has taken over the evil empire from Helena. Even Sam is a pod and is hooking up with the husband of the woman who has been held captive for years because she saved Jason. Even if no one on the show acknowledges it, it's still something that can, will, and is being used against her by some people in the audience. I don't think these writers have made it their mission to piss off Liz fans, they're just hacks who think they're doing good work. 

[tallyrand]

Everyone might be written badly which is true but Liz is the one set up to fail. Jason and sam will be happy together, Patrick and robin will reunite, nik and Hayden will be going strong and Liz is once again the perpetual loser. Which frankly is fine with me if they intend to let Liz grow for this experience and move on from that idiot jason. However I doubt it will be that easy. It's tiresome for Liz lovers and haters at this point.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It feels like some Liz fans think she's the only character suffering from poor writing and that's just not true.

 

As someone who remembers the blistering the Liz fans gave Sam when Jake got kidnapped, and then again a little less directly when Luke turned him into a speed bump, I'm fully expecting the speculation about whether or not Sam takes a shower on her route from one man's bed to another's to resurface once Jasam gets back together. Because Liz really isn't the only one to be written as being horrible for no particular reason. And with less reason, if anything, since Jason left her once before to go back to Sam, so I imagine that once he regains whatever marbles he has left after eleventy brain injuries. he'll be trotting over Liz on his way out the door. He's just as much of a pawn in this as the rest of them, it only seems like Liz is the only one suffering from bad writing and that just isn't the case.