Elizabeth Webber: Forever The Manipulative Miss Or Adorable Angel?

[yowsah1]

The most frustrating thing about how badly Liz is written for me, is that, like so many other actresses on this show, BH consistently gives 100% in every scene she's in.  She deserves better than what she has been given to play.

[Harmony233]

I'm not a Liz fan but its frustrating how they write her character like killing off her kid she ws the one who got the least POV and I never understood why they never recast Jeff ect.

[KerleyQ]

I'm not a Liz fan but its frustrating how they write her character like killing off her kid she ws the one who got the least POV and I never understood why they never recast Jeff ect.

 

Killing her kid was not remotely about her.  It was about giving TG a "dark" Luke story and about clearing the decks for a JaSam baby.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

Killing her kid was not remotely about her.  It was about giving TG a "dark" Luke story and about clearing the decks for a JaSam baby.  

 

 

Not only that, but they had fired Becky, and this was going to be her swan song, where I think, it was said, she would leave, going Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, over Jake's death. But I guess the suits or whoever didn't factor in the backlash and outrage of her fans, because she was shortly rehired, and that storyline should have been about her; She did a phenomenal job. But just like her rape wasn't about her, the death of her child wasn't about her, either.

[UYI]

I'm not a Liz fan but its frustrating how they write her character like killing off her kid she ws the one who got the least POV and I never understood why they never recast Jeff ect.

 

I wonder if there some strange pipe dream among TPTB at one point that they might have a chance of getting RDA back?

 

More likely than not, though, they just didn't care enough about Liz to build her family up (and I say that as someone who is kind of "eh" about Liz overall). 

 

I'm STILL curious how Andrea Trent Webber being the name of her mom became a thing on Wikipedia. Talk about pulling a name out of absolutely nowhere.

Edited March 5, 2015 by UYI

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Well . . . I can see how it is because Liz went back and forth deciding whether she wanted to be with Nik or not the year before last like 4 times. I don't think she sleeps with more people but I can see how she comes across as fickle. It's not the amount of lovers she has, it's how she can't decide. Carly and Sonny have had a lot of lovers under Ron but they usually move on once they're done (except in the case of Sonny and Connie/Kate, where he kept going back and forth between the altars.)

 

WendyCR72 was the one who said it, I'm pretty sure, but with Liz it isn't just that she seems to flit from man to man. It's that she loves Nik until she loves Ric until she loves Jason, and then sometimes she loves Lucky. It's the word 'love' that makes her look so damn fickle to me, not whatever she does or doesn't do with these guys.

[HipOldBat]

Now I know someone can answer this question for me:  Why is her last name Webber?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Now I know someone can answer this question for me: Why is her last name Webber?

Her father is Jeff Weber. I think that Jeff didn't find out that his bio dad was actually Steve Hardy until he was an adult.

[HipOldBat]

Ah ok!  Jeff Webber, gotcha.  At least I know who he is heh.  Thanks.

[sometimesfan]

Aw, man. If you have time, you should YT some vintage Liz/Lucky, especially because you must see Jonathan Jackson as Lucky. Greg Vaughan was hot, but I could never take him seriously in the role.

 

I probably liked Liz from the start because I found Sarah to be so annoying. She was "perfect" supposedly, both Nic and Lucky wanted her, and Liz was more rebellious, if smoking cigarettes made her rebellious. And she absolutely had the biggest crush on Lucky. Then she was raped and Becky was amazing during the fall out to that story. Becky liked her job while JJ and then later SB wanted to try their hands at something else. I think it hurt her because the writing continued to go downhill for her as the writers found new shiny objects for which they could write.

[HipOldBat]

I probably liked Liz from the start because I found Sarah to be so annoying. She was "perfect" supposedly, both Nic and Lucky wanted her, and Liz was more rebellious, if smoking cigarettes made her rebellious. And she absolutely had the biggest crush on Lucky. Then she was raped and Becky was amazing during the fall out to that story. Becky liked her job while JJ and then later SB wanted to try their hands at something else. I think it hurt her because the writing continued to go downhill for her as the writers found new shiny objects for which they could write.

 

I think I am going to look up some of those old episodes, to see what the character was like all those years ago.

[sometimesfan]

I think I am going to look up some of those old episodes, to see what the character was like all those years ago.

 

Start with seeing how "practically perfect in every way" Sarah was first for perspective. Plus Becky still had eyebrows then.

[UYI]

Jennifer Sky (Sarah 1.0) looked like she could have been figure skater Tara Lipinski's sister. Very creepy.

Here's Liz's very first scene, which aired on August 1st, 1997:

 

Edited March 5, 2015 by UYI

[ulkis]

I probably liked Liz from the start because I found Sarah to be so annoying. She was "perfect" supposedly, both Nic and Lucky wanted her, and Liz was more rebellious, if smoking cigarettes made her rebellious. And she absolutely had the biggest crush on Lucky. Then she was raped and Becky was amazing during the fall out to that story. Becky liked her job while JJ and then later SB wanted to try their hands at something else. I think it hurt her because the writing continued to go downhill for her as the writers found new shiny objects for which they could write.

 

I don't know about that . . . she was their #1 ingenue for a while during the McTavish era. Once Guza came back and they cast GV as Lucky, it went downhill after that. Brief resurgence when they paired her with Jason in 2006 but yeeeah after 2008 it was pretty much scraps from there.

[HipOldBat]

Lol, rebellious Liz, smoking cigs and sneaking out to a 24 hr deli, then running away to PC - first class! And she actually looks like she's near a normal weight.  Liz now is so painfully thin...

 

I take it Sarah is the "perfect sister goody two-shoes".

 

Loved seeing Audrey and her reference to Lucille - Lucille was quite the character back in the day.

[sometimesfan]

Lol, rebellious Liz, smoking cigs and sneaking out to a 24 hr deli, then running away to PC - first class! And she actually looks like she's near a normal weight.  Liz now is so painfully thin...

 

I take it Sarah is the "perfect sister goody two-shoes".

 

Loved seeing Audrey and her reference to Lucille - Lucille was quite the character back in the day.

 

Becky is way too thin, but I blame tptb for that too. LOL She's probably afraid if she gains a pound they'll fire her again.

[HipOldBat]

I don't blame her at all for it.  You're most likely right about why she is.  Heck, actresses (and actors too, to a lesser extent) have so much pressure on them to look a certain way, it's really a pity.  That's gotta be tough.

[UYI]

Holy crap, I remember this ad campaign:

 

[ulkis]

That's amusing, since she ended up barely having a relationship with either of them at the time.

[peachmangosteen]

I remember that promo! Oh man, memories. Also, damn, that was 13 years ago and BH literally looks the same age now as she did then. 

[Tiger]

That's amusing, since she ended up barely having a relationship with either of them at the time.

I don't remember when that promo came out, at what Guza came back, and at what point Jasus came back, but there was a definite shift for Liz and a lot of other characters in 2002.

When they ran that marathon on soapnet for the 50th a couple of years ago, to me the show had a consistent look and feel through the 1999 episode(s) and then they skipped ahead to 2003 with a panic room episode and the show had a totally different look and feel.

I get that the show was a mess when Guza came back in 2002, but it's clear to me looking back now that the entire show changed when he did, and a lot of characters like Liz have never really recovered.

ETA: I think that Guza decided that Liz could be used as a tool and a prop for whatever story or character he wanted to push that the time. I think he and Jill knew Becky was a good actress with a sizeable fan base and could generate chemistry with anyone they threw at her. So "Liz" stopped being a character in and of herself and became a plot device.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Tiger

[UYI]

McTavish was there until the summer of 2002; Guza, I think, came back right before he brought back Brenda. Was he the one who killed off OriginalRecipe!Kristina? (the red headed one)

 

ETA: I got the Thanksgiving marathon from 2012 and the 50th anniversary marathon a few months later mixed up. Oops! 

Edited March 12, 2015 by UYI

[ulkis]

I don't remember when that promo came out, at what Guza came back, and at what point Jasus came back, but there was a definite shift for Liz and a lot of other characters in 2002.

When they ran that marathon on soapnet for the 50th a couple of years ago, to me the show had a consistent look and feel through the 1999 episode(s) and then they skipped ahead to 2003 with a panic room episode and the show had a totally different look and feel.

I get that the show was a mess when Guza came back in 2002, but it's clear to me looking back now that the entire show changed when he did, and a lot of characters like Liz have never really recovered.

 

I blame a lot of that on his co-writer Pratt. I think GH became better in late 2005. Not completely better, obviously, mind you, but with the return of Robin and the debut of Patrick, there were decent B plots again.

[UYI]

It's funny to look at that promo and realize that, later on, two of her sons were fathered by them. 

[Tiger]

I blame a lot of that on his co-writer Pratt. I think GH became better in late 2005. Not completely better, obviously, mind you, but with the return of Robin and the debut of Patrick, there were decent B plots again.

I don't know exactly where in story Pratt left, but I thought 2005 started off really strong with the kidnapping story. And then Tamara left and it felt like the whole show totally fell apart that summer. Maybe this was Guza first on his own because it was like starting JB's first day, massive re-writes were happening in every single story. Then 2005 ended really strong. That Nov/Dec when Patrick, Robin, and LW Carly came on the show was the best it had been in years.

[HeatLifer]

So much loooove. So much.

[peachmangosteen]

I'll have to watch that later. I keep telling myself I'm gonna watch some of the early Liz years, but I never get around to it.

 

I also kinda wanna watch some Liz/Jason stuff because I hate them both and I'm masochistic.

Edited March 12, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ulkis]

I'll have to watch that later. I keep telling myself I'm gonna watch some of the early Liz years, but I never get around to it.

 

I also kinda wanna watch some Liz/Jason stuff because I hate them both and I'm masochistic.

 

I think that'll make you hate them even more. I don't remember the exact quotes but there was stuff like "Oh Jason when we're on your motorcycle it's like painting the wind!' or something.

 

I honestly do think they had great chemistry. But I hated Jason, so. And Jason's clothes were bad. If the guy actually wore clothes other his black tee and his in-no-way-warm-enough for fakeBuffalo leather jacket he might have been more attractive to me.

[peachmangosteen]

I think that'll make you hate them even more. I don't remember the exact quotes but there was stuff like "Oh Jason when we're on your motorcycle it's like painting the wind!' or something.

 

 

Oh man! Don't they also have some kind of 'You smell like snow," thing? LOL they sound horribly hilarious.

[UYI]

I liked when Jason and Liz danced to that song of hers and Lucky's when she was missing him, and Carly's stankface when she saw it through the window at Kelly's.

 

Of course, that led to Hate!Sex, so...yeah.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6PR5gQYAes

And as far as bad lines go, what about Liz's line to Jason when she went to Jake's: "Do you know what NOTHING feels like?" I get she's sad over Lucky, but it's still kind of funny.

 

[HeatLifer]

I always felt like I would have liked Jason/Liz if they didn't happen when I began to hate Jason.

[Oracle42]

I was a fan until the Zander/Liz/Jason triangle. Unless the triangle is compelling, the person in the middle just looks like an indecisive asshole.
Then, Jason chose Copkilla instead of Liz and I lost all interest in the pairing and in watching Jason scenes because the Drab Four - ugh

Edited March 13, 2015 by Oracle42

[sometimesfan]

I always felt like I would have liked Jason/Liz if they didn't happen when I began to hate Jason.

 

They did have ridiculously insane chemistry.

[HeatLifer]

They did have ridiculously insane chemistry.

Becky has chem with everyone, man. It's so cool.

[SlovakPrincess]

I think she delivered the "do you know what nothing feels like?" line pretty well. The hilarious part to me is Jason responding in his dead-eyed, monotone-voiced way.

Silly Liz, he's a cyborg. Of course he knows what nothing feels like!

I kid, I kid. There was a time when I could at least understand why Jason was a popular character, even though I was meh on him.

[KerleyQ]

Liz has to be the luckiest, yet worst, "stalker" ever.  Lucky, because the "victim" of said stalking keeps showing up at her house all on his own.  Worst, because, well, damn, the guy has apparently wanted to kiss her for months, and she's just gotten around to it now?  She needs to up her stalking game, clearly. 

[HeatLifer]

Jake wants to be with her. Stalker or no stalker.

And, honestly, Liz is like, the least offensive right now. Shouldn't Jake try to investigate who he is and if he has a family before he starts falling for the nurse who helped him? Ron makes these dudes look so careless, yet it's the women who get blamed.

[peachmangosteen]

And, honestly, Liz is like, the least offensive right now. Shouldn't Jake try to investigate who he is and if he has a family before he starts falling for the nurse who helped him? Ron makes these dudes look so careless, yet it's the women who get blamed.

 

I think they're both to blame for that. 

 

Liz should've at least pretended to act like she cared about Jake's pre-amnesia life. I mean, really now, girl! But Jake should've, too. They're both idiots TBH. 

 

BH and BM really do have chem though. Why couldn't BM have just been Lucky. It would've been so much better.

Edited March 20, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[HeatLifer]

I think they have sweet chem, too. But nothing will make me want Liz/Jason.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Jake wants to be with her. Stalker or no stalker.

And, honestly, Liz is like, the least offensive right now. Shouldn't Jake try to investigate who he is and if he has a family before he starts falling for the nurse who helped him? Ron makes these dudes look so careless, yet it's the women who get blamed.

 

I don't think its "the women getting blamed", TBH. Jake may want to be with Liz, but he's the amnesiac, not her. She could actually help him find out about his old life, see if he wants to go back to it. I do think RH and Billy have decent chem, but if Jake should want to discover the truth about himself, she should want to help him do that because they're friends.

[HeatLifer]

I'm referencing more of an overall feel on the interwebs. I see a lot of insults thrown at women on this show (Liz, Sam, Maxie, Carly, etc) than the men.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I'm referencing more of an overall feel on the interwebs. I see a lot of insults thrown at women on this show (Liz, Sam, Maxie, Carly, etc) than the men.

 

With respect, I completely disagree. There might be a fair amount of insults being thrown at Liz/Sam/Carly/Maxie, but there are also pages and pages and pages of insults being thrown at Sonny, Duke, Ric, Shawn, Patrick, Nikolas and Jason (both dead and alive). If anything, Sonny has Liz far outrun in the being insulted game. Jokes about his height, the shoe polish on his hair, the stammering, the many ways he must be overcompensating, how he can't find the towels, etc. Hell, if you've paid attention to half my posts, Sonny has been much easier for me to take shots at. As it relates to Liz in this particular instance with Jake, why should she be immune to criticism? I don't think she's being completely terrible, but I also think she could actually offer to help Jake since she has her faculties about her and he doesn't. YMMV.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[HeatLifer]

Like I said, I'm not just talking about here. It's all good, though. :)

[ulkis]

I don't know what I'll do, but if Liz gets to skate after this, like she did after the Nik affair blew up and she had some convenient, quick "breakdown", I will be so freaking livid.

 

I think Liz was punished as thoroughly as a character probably can without going off screen or to prison after the Niz affair. She was catigated and/or condescended to by most everyone. Sure, Lucky gave her a hug when she had her breakdown but he also kept telling her how they were poison and no good for each other. She was backburnered and without a love interest for pretty much four years. Heck, even freaking Ethan was in on the act, telling Liz how she was no good for Lucky and she needed to stay away.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

I think Liz was punished as thoroughly as a character probably can without going off screen or to prison after the Niz affair. She was catigated and/or condescended to by most everyone. Sure, Lucky gave her a hug when she had her breakdown but he also kept telling her how they were poison and no good for each other. She was backburnered and without a love interest for pretty much four years. Heck, even freaking Ethan was in on the act, telling Liz how she was no good for Lucky and she needed to stay away.

 

I don't agree. I don't think she was thoroughly punished. I definitely don't remember most everyone castigating her or being condescending. I'd need a few examples of this. She had a couple of people, like Lulu, go off on her, but after she had her breakdown, everyone felt sorry for her again, including Lucky. Him telling her they're no good for each other isn't punishment to me, especially considering what she did. And I also don't count being backburnered being punished. I'm referring to on-screen stuff. I think she was just back burnered because the writers got bored with her and didn't know who to pair her with.

[emjohnson03]

Does anyone know why they never followed through the Liz and Jason pairing all those years ago? They always explored it and they had it for a moment but it was snatched away for other people and I never understood why because it was always a fan favorite couple.

 

I like Liz because I like Becky and she's so comitted to Liz. I want to see her happy but happy without all the deception. I know it's a soap but I wish they would give her a chance to shine on smart choices, not dumb ones.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Does anyone know why they never followed through the Liz and Jason pairing all those years ago? They always explored it and they had it for a moment but it was snatched away for other people and I never understood why because it was always a fan favorite couple.

I like Liz because I like Becky and she's so comitted to Liz. I want to see her happy but happy without all the deception. I know it's a soap but I wish they would give her a chance to shine on smart choices, not dumb ones.

I believe it was Michael getting shot and put in a coma that led to them breaking up. My memory is fuzzy, but I think they had decided to see if they could have a relationship, but the shooting changed all that.

[33kaitykaity]

Hate.  She's Slizabitch again to me now.  

[ulkis]

edit

Edited May 6, 2015 by ulkis

[Chairperson Meow]

For faking a breakdown she should have, imo, been required to do some sort of therapy and had custody of her kids taken away or restricted. Too many times on soaps we see the parents neglect the kids for lame romances or other things and then they get aged, the kids are young adults or teens doing really dumb shit and it's "why are they doing that?"

For this Jakeson thing, especially since Jason/Jake, oh hell it's Jason, yeah Jason was her patient- there needs to be work related ramifications. I don't care this time that he had a big ass medical bill from mean old Dr. O because people get medical bills everyday and don't go home with their nurses/doctors. The truth is that Liz is a nurse, she got too close (reminiscent of Izzy Stevens and Denny on Greys Anatomy ) , so she should be on a very strict probation. I can see Port Charles residents- especially Monica, Micheal, Sam, Tracy, Carly, Lucas, Maxie, and Spinelli being uncomfortable working with patients.

The only way to "redeem" Liz would be to reunite her with Ric at this point since she's kinda doing the same thing he did.