S04.E04: Common Ground

[Athena]

Quote

Having been led by providence to Fraser's Ridge, Jamie, Claire and Young Ian begin to build a home in the Blue Ridge Mountains. In the 20th Century, Roger tries to reconnect with Brianna.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, boo fucking hoo, Roger. You feel sad because you gave a woman who was not even your girlfriend an ultimatum? Cry me a river.

I enjoyed watching the slow process of Jamie, Claire, and Ian build their new home. It was a great contrast to how quickly you can now throw a prefab house up these days. Similarly, I loved seeing Roger open his transatlantic mail with documents about Fraser's Ridge. Today we would just scan it and email it, but in 1971 this was the way to share historical documents.

I watched the inside the episode discussion afterward and one thing I definitely appreciate is that the producers made an effort to learn about the Cherokee and make the scenes as authentic as possible. Every culture deserves that accuracy but it's even worse when there's very little representation and most of it is a mishmash of stereotypes. Love that they cast First Nation actors (no offense, Lou Diamond Phillips). According to this article, they couldn't hire Americans so they had to hire Canadians (per PaleyFest).

Edited November 25, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[riverheightsnancy]

Loved this episode. Made me sad when I realized that Claire and Jamie will die (or already are dead). That impacted me more than almost anything else on this show and Roger's reaction to it. Really looking forward to Bree going through-I assume she must be able to. Maybe Roger can go too. 

[nara]

Really enjoyable episode. It’s the type of slower “characterization” episode that some of us have been craving for a while. I enjoyed the slow building of trust between Jamie and the Cherokee family. I think that grandma is going to be one of my favorites, along with John Quincy Myers.

I am curious about how Claire feels about being part of the colonization of America, which had its own brutality, given her principled stance on slavery. It hasn’t occurred to her yet, but I wonder if she will think about it later. You just know that the governor is going to make them do something awful to the Cherokee...

 I am glad that Claire continues to think about Briana and how her daughter might miss her. Claire was already married at her daughter’s age, and had grown up without a mother, but Briana grew up differently, and will miss her during key points of her life. Glad that was addressed.

Lol. I have a picture of Grandfather Mountain on my phone. I like to think that the scenic overlook from which I took the picture is Fraser’s Ridge.

I think that it’s interesting that the color which is continuously associated with Claire: white dove, La Dame Blanche, she was wearing white when she went through the stones. I wonder what it means...

 

Fiona is my favorite tertiary character. Glad she had an important piece of info, and knew more than anybody suspected, but I am not sure how I feel about sharing it with Briana...

 

 I really hope that “visiting her mother” is a euphemism and not Briana going through the stones, but the daughter of Jamie and Claire will do something reckless, of course. Any bets on how soon she gets attacked?

Edited November 25, 2018 by nara

[Netfoot]

7 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Made me sad when I realized that Claire and Jamie will die (or already are dead).

Comfort yourself with the thought that they both died in a fire which consumed the house.  And that if they wanted to fake their deaths and move on elsewhere (perhaps the 20th century?) a huge fire would be a great way to achieve this, and explain away the lack of bodies...

5 hours ago, nara said:

I really hope that “visiting her mother” is a euphemism and not Briana going through the stones...

I think this was glaringly obvious from the moment she heard evidence that Claire had successfully reunited with Jamie.  Further more, now that Roger has (I must presume) figured out what she's done, I think it is quite probable that he will attempt to follow.

[BitterApple]

Wow, I feel like we're finally getting back to the "good" Outlander. I had chills when Roger not only discovered where Claire and Jamie ended up, but learned of their "deaths" as well. Also, his obvious heartbreak when he learns Brianna's been in Scotland for two weeks and hasn't contacted him. 

I'm not a book reader, but I feel like the Obituary is some sort of red herring. Knowing Claire, I can see the two of them getting into hot water and needing to flee. Faking deaths would be a perfect way to do that. 

I loved the cabin building scenes and I'm glad JQM didn't die. I'm also intrigued by the Cherokee healer and hope the show develops a friendship between her and Claire. 

I can't wait to see what happens next week. I'm assuming Brianna's been doing research just like Roger has and found out about her parents' fate. An attempt to save them by going through the stones would be the logical next step. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by BitterApple

[nara]

@Netfoot and @BitterApple

I am impressed that you guys thought of the red herring idea regarding the deaths. It didn’t occur to me! I wonder if Jamie ends up doing that to avoid fighting for the British in the American Revolution? Probably at least a season away, though, right?

[Netfoot]

27 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm not a book reader, but I feel like the Obituary is some sort of red herring.

I'm not a book reader either, so my speculation about Claire and Jamie faking their death is exactly that: speculation.  Or, if you prefer, wishful thinking.  I would rather proceed with the assumption that their report of their deaths was in error.  Sure, they will have to die sometime since two hundred plus years have passed, but I choose to assume that they enjoy more than the 2-12 years the newspaper article/obituary implies.  The fire-as-a-red-herring idea is simply how I think the truth may differ from the report.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Netfoot

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, nara said:

@Netfoot and @BitterApple

I am impressed that you guys thought of the red herring idea regarding the deaths. It didn’t occur to me! I wonder if Jamie ends up doing that to avoid fighting for the British in the American Revolution? Probably at least a season away, though, right?

It may very well be. I could also see something like Jamie defies the Governor or kills a British Officer while defending the Cherokee and ends up with a price on his head just like he had back in Scotland. They have to at least make it to the Revolutionary War, as that's way too big a part of history to just leave out. Obviously they'll die at some point, but I don't think it's in the early years after being deeded all that land.

Eta: One thing I forgot to mention earlier; how adorable was Ian's reaction to Jamie being given the bad ass nickname of "Bear Killer"?

Edited November 26, 2018 by BitterApple

[mledawn]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I watched the inside the episode discussion afterward and one thing I definitely appreciate is that the producers made an effort to learn about the Cherokee and make the scenes as authentic as possible. Every culture deserves that accuracy but it's even worse when there's very little representation and most of it is a mishmash of stereotypes. Love that they cast First Nation actors (no offense, Lou Diamond Phillips). According to this article, they couldn't hire Americans so they had to hire Canadians (per PaleyFest).

I have a number of Mohawk friends and we were all discussing the casting call when it came out, but I didn't know anyone who actually went to it. Very cool!
Tantoo Cardinal is Metis but she plays from all First Nations. She's obviously a member of SAG so I'm not clear on how the restriction didn't affect her. Did her Canadian-ness usurp her SAG membership?

As Jamie, Claire, and Ian were planting the stakes, I was waiting for the First Nations people to show up. Claire is from the 1960s so she was not part of a generation who understood that the British colonised stolen land. I'm interested in how this storyline develops in light of recent understandings.

[Cdh20]

3 hours ago, nara said:

@Netfoot and @BitterApple

I am impressed that you guys thought of the red herring idea regarding the deaths. It didn’t occur to me! I wonder if Jamie ends up doing that to avoid fighting for the British in the American Revolution? Probably at least a season away, though, right?

I hope that revolution is still a few seasons away!

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It may very well be. I could also see something like Jamie defies the Governor or kills a British Officer while defending the Cherokee and ends up with a price on his head just like he had back in Scotland. They have to at least make it to the Revolutionary War, as that's way too big a part of history to just leave out. Obviously they'll die at some point, but I don't think it's in the early years after being deeded all that land.

Eta: One thing I forgot to mention earlier; how adorable was Ian's reaction to Jamie being given the bad ass nickname of "Bear Killer"?

Ian is adorable!

[Cdh20]

5 hours ago, Netfoot said:

 

I think this was glaringly obvious from the moment she heard evidence that Claire had successfully reunited with Jamie.  Further more, now that Roger has (I must presume) figured out what she's done, I think it is quite probable that he will attempt to follow.

I thought is was obvious from epi 213 that Roger & Bri will eventually time travel as they heard the buzzing at the stones when Geillis went through!

 

For the first time tonight I started to wonder how Claire could live like this- after never questioning her choosing Jamie (both times), because he is  "all that" , I thought how sucky it was to live in constant danger, in the middle of the wilderness, in a hut, with no shampoo! (I need to go rewatch the Wedding, or the Reckoning, or something)

Edited November 26, 2018 by Cdh20

[heavysnaxx]

10 hours ago, nara said:

I am curious about how Claire feels about being part of the colonization of America, which had its own brutality, given her principled stance on slavery. It hasn’t occurred to her yet, but I wonder if she will think about it later.

I've found this whole story-line very frustrating. Supposedly, they're remaining in the colonies to build a better blah-blah for Bree (who is fine but whatever) but they're not. They're taking part in a land-grab and saying that theirs will be a "kinder, gentler" land-grab. I don't get it. Jamie's a laird, not a destitute peasant, in Scotland. Jeebus, go back and if you want to help the world politically, put your back into England's fight about ending the slave trade.

But never mind that. What I can't figure out is: Why is Claire wearing PANTS in the last scene?

[Cdh20]

2 minutes ago, heavysnaxx said:

 

But never mind that. What I can't figure out is: Why is Claire wearing PANTS in the last scene?

Her wardrobe is the cutest collection of things isn't it?

[theschnauzers]

Quote

Tantoo Cardinal is Metis but she plays from all First Nations. She's obviously a member of SAG so I'm not clear on how the restriction didn't affect her. Did her Canadian-ness usurp her SAG membership?

From what I gather looking at SAG-AFTRA’s website, there are no applicable production agreements that require SAG membership in Scotland, thus non-Americans can be cast even if they are SAG members. But Americans can’t be cast there without being blacklisted by SAG-AFTRA from US based productions. That may not be exactly correct, but that seems to be what the rules are.

[BitterApple]

9 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

I've found this whole story-line very frustrating. Supposedly, they're remaining in the colonies to build a better blah-blah for Bree (who is fine but whatever) but they're not. They're taking part in a land-grab and saying that theirs will be a "kinder, gentler" land-grab. I don't get it. Jamie's a laird, not a destitute peasant, in Scotland. 

I wish they would stop making it about Bree. She's alive, well and financially comfortable in the 1970s. Whatever's happened has already happened, so Claire and Jamie aren't doing anything in 1768 to alter her destiny. 

Regarding him being a laird, Jamie's nephew owns Lallybroch now, and has for the past twenty years so I can see why they wouldn't return to Scotland, but just stay in America and admit it's because there's more opportunity. Stop with the "change the world" nonsense. It didn't work in Culloden, and it won't work now. 

I loved Claire's pants, but how are they not freezing to death? They're living in a grass hut and with the amount of time it would take to fell trees and clear land, they have to quickly be approaching winter. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by BitterApple

[Cdh20]

Is it cold in North Carolina in the winter? 

[rxpert14]

2 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Is it cold in North Carolina in the winter? 

Quite mild in the eastern part (where I am) but the western NC mountains, where Jamie and Claire are building, get quite cold in wintertime.

[Token]

It's too bad, with all of the First Nations actors they possibly could have chosen, that they had to go with someone who has convictions for beating up women.  Good choice, show!!  Really sends a message.

[heavysnaxx]

20 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Her wardrobe is the cutest collection of things isn't it?

Yeah, Claire has street style where there aren't even any streets. And considering how quickly she keeps ending up with exquisitely tailored separates to go with her chunky knits, I'd say her new name is La Dame de Fast-Fashion.

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I wish they would stop making it about Bree. She's alive, well and financially comfortable in the 1970s. Whatever's happened has already happened, so Claire and Jamie aren't doing anything in 1768 to alter her destiny. 

Regarding him being a laird, Jamie's nephew owns Lallybroch now, and has for the past twenty years so I can see why they wouldn't return to Scotland, but just stay in America and admit it's because there's more opportunity. Stop with the "change the world" nonsense. It didn't work in Culloden, and it won't work now. 

I loved Claire's pants, but how are they not freezing to death? They're living in a grass hut and with the amount of time it would take to fell trees and clear land, they have to quickly be approaching winter. 

I so agree with you about Bree. She's FINE, the country is FINE (you know what I mean) and how often do you literally know that things will turn out FINE? You'd think Claire would get, like, a UTI and realize, "Uh, yeah, Bree's fine, I better worry about the various and sundry ills I'm now vulnerable to." I know it's mean but I'm dying for Claire to have epic hot flashes that [INSERT CONVENIENTLY AVAILABLE HERB] aren't helping with.

Re cold: How exactly was Claire not shaking with cold after being out in last week's storm and weighted down by soaking wet woolens? Don't they all reek of mildew?

Opportunity: Ok, I'm crabby but wouldn't, oh, CANADA be a better place to settle? There's room to avoid the colonial rebellion that spills into Quebec and it seems far safer, plus being a much better place, slavery-wise. Jamie's aunt wouldn't help them get set up? 

Almost forgot: This episode, with Claire hauling logs, etc., made me realize: How is all of the very-difficult "women's work' getting done? Claire's been in homes with servants, mostly. It's hard labor and time consuming!

Edited November 27, 2018 by heavysnaxx

[AheadofStraight]

10 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

Re cold: How exactly was Claire not shaking with cold after being out in last week's storm and weighted down by soaking wet woolens? Don't they all reek of mildew?

Wool is a natural insulator and still keeps you warm when wet. It's also resistant to mold & mildew. https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/hiking/wool-when-wet.htm

[mledawn]

I was going to say, wool is magic. She'd smell like a sheep for sure, but she'd be warm.

Canada would probably be about the same, tbh. Sure no direct involvement in the revolution but there would be most of the same issues just on a smaller scale.

And it'd be colder. Sweet moses, it would be colder.

[taanja]

16 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

Yeah, Claire has street style where there aren't even any streets. And considering how quickly she keeps ending up with exquisitely tailored separates to go with her chunky knits, I'd say her new name is La Dame de Fast-Fashion.

I so agree with you about Bree. She's FINE, the country is FINE (you know what I mean) and how often do you literally know that things will turn out FINE? You'd think Claire would get, like, a UTI and realize, "Uh, yeah, Bree's fine, I better worry about the various and sundry ills I'm now vulnerable to." I know it's mean but I'm dying for Claire to have epic hot flashes that [INSERT CONVENIENTLY AVAILABLE HERB] aren't helping with.

Re cold: How exactly was Claire not shaking with cold after being out in last week's storm and weighted down by soaking wet woolens? Don't they all reek of mildew?

Opportunity: Ok, I'm crabby but wouldn't, oh, CANADA be a better place to settle? There's room to avoid the colonial rebellion that spills into Quebec and it seems far safer, plus being a much better place, slavery-wise. Jamie's aunt wouldn't help them get set up? 

Almost forgot: This episode, with Claire hauling logs, etc., made me realize: How is all of the very-difficult "women's work' getting done? Claire's been in homes with servants, mostly. It's hard labor and time consuming!

I finally got around to watching the ep.

haha! yes! Claire only brought so much penicillin with her (plus it must have all gone "bad" by this time. No refrigeration!) How did she not get malaria while running around on that island last season? Penicillin wouldn't help with that.

Claire was soaking wet last ep and I thought -- ugh! smelly and wet -- that is lovely! But they are all so dirty I guess no one notices (But of course I question Claire's sanity for the 1000th time)-- why would anyone chose to go back to pre-industrial revolution times? No running water! No electricity! No god damn conveniences of any kind. The first time she "fell" through the stones was an accident -- but doing it again on purpose? what? Why? Sorry Jaime isn't all that.

And let us NOT FORGET Claire and Jamie are well into middle age by now. Hauling logs all day? yeah sure.

Which brings me to Brianna--so she went all the way to Scotland to go through the stones?????--first--how does she know she will go back to the same time as Claire?  and second-- how will she get from Scotland to America? Like it's a long ass troublesome journey to get from one continent to another.  So very convoluted I must say. The whole time travel thing doesn't make any sense. So that skull with the silver fillings came from Scotland too? and crossed the ocean to the very spot where Claire happens to end up?

How do people know that the story of Claire and Jaime dying in a fire is a fake? Did the show gives us some kind of clue?

[Cdh20]

4 minutes ago, taanja said:

I finally got around to watching the ep.

haha! yes! Claire only brought so much penicillin with her (plus it must have all gone "bad" by this time. No refrigeration!) How did she not get malaria while running around on that island last season? Penicillin wouldn't help with that.

Claire was soaking wet last ep and I thought -- ugh! smelly and wet -- that is lovely! But they are all so dirty I guess no one notices (But of course I question Claire's sanity for the 1000th time)-- why would anyone chose to go back to pre-industrial revolution times? No running water! No electricity! No god damn conveniences of any kind. The first time she "fell" through the stones was an accident -- but doing it again on purpose? what? Why? Sorry Jaime isn't all that.

And let us NOT FORGET Claire and Jamie are well into middle age by now. Hauling logs all day? yeah sure.

Which brings me to Brianna--so she went all the way to Scotland to go through the stones?????--first--how does she know she will go back to the same time as Claire?  and second-- how will she get from Scotland to America? Like it's a long ass troublesome journey to get from one continent to another.  So very convoluted I must say. The whole time travel thing doesn't make any sense. So that skull with the silver fillings came from Scotland too? and crossed the ocean to the very spot where Claire happens to end up?

How do people know that the story of Claire and Jaime dying in a fire is a fake? Did the show gives us some kind of clue?

I think we know that Jamie & Claire haven't died yet as there is 8/9 books, even if we haven't read them all!

I thought of talking to you in that other thread about Claire wanting to/or willing to live in the 1700's vs 1900's, because  for the first time  it looked sucky (even with the return of hot, dirty, bloody Jamie with a decent wig). I would not want to play Little House on the Prairie so thank you to my English & Scottish ancestors for braving the Canadian wilds years ago! 

I bet Bri has Gillian's book of time travel that Claire stole from her house in 1968.

[Cdh20]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:40 AM, BitterApple said:

I wish they would stop making it about Bree. She's alive, well and financially comfortable in the 1970s. Whatever's happened has already happened, so Claire and Jamie aren't doing anything in 1768 to alter her destiny. 

Regarding him being a laird, Jamie's nephew owns Lallybroch now, and has for the past twenty years so I can see why they wouldn't return to Scotland, but just stay in America and admit it's because there's more opportunity. Stop with the "change the world" nonsense. It didn't work in Culloden, and it won't work now. 

I loved Claire's pants, but how are they not freezing to death? They're living in a grass hut and with the amount of time it would take to fell trees and clear land, they have to quickly be approaching winter. 

I think Bri's story is important too.

Doesn't everyone want Jamie to meet Brianna? All Jamie has ever wanted it to be a father, & couldn't catch a break on that! 

[BitterApple]

4 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

I think Bri's story is important too.

Doesn't everyone want Jamie to meet Brianna? All Jamie has ever wanted it to be a father, & couldn't catch a break on that! 

I meant it more in regards to Jamie and Claire's mindset that the two of them can change major events, not the show focusing on Bree's journey post-Claire.

[taanja]

1 minute ago, Cdh20 said:

I think we know that Jamie & Claire haven't died yet as there is 8/9 books, even if we haven't read them all!

I thought of talking to you in that other thread about Claire wanting to/or willing to live in the 1700's vs 1900's, because  for the first time  it looked sucky (even with the return of hot, dirty, bloody Jamie with a decent wig). I would not want to play Little House on the Prairie so thank you to my English & Scottish ancestors for braving the Canadian wilds years ago! 

I bet Bri has Gillian's book of time travel that Claire stole from her house in 1968.

No. This is the no book talk thread-- so No. I haven't read anything past the first book oh so many years ago that I forgot most of it except the premise-- woman goes back in time to Scotland pre- Battle of Culloden. That's it.

Oh! The book of time travel! I forgot! Ok. So did she make her own outfit like Claire did? Cuz where can one just go to buy an 18th century dress?

The hardest part for me in my suspension of belief when watching this show is accepting that someone like Claire-- smart and educated --would choose to go back to a time before running water/indoor plumbing (my god think of the logistics just to bathe! The water has to be drawn from somewhere--a well that has to first be dug or a river or lake) then heated! then dumped into a vessel like a tub ,, it's a freakin' process!) <<< and that is just bathing! What about washing cloths/bed lines and such???

Oh and does Claire still  get her period? Because-- think of that ladies! The "rags" would have to be washed out and reused! Oy!

Ok ok! I obviously am putting way more logical thought into this than the author.

[Cdh20]

You are indeed overthinking it....it's a fantasy, with a fantasy husband...my husband reminds me all the time that Jamie was created by a woman, for women! The show certainly doesn't address some of the problematic living conditions, let's handwave that away, with Jamie & Claire's lack of aging! *wink*

[WInterfalls]

18 minutes ago, taanja said:

Ok ok! I obviously am putting way more logical thought into this than the author.

I mean you are somewhat. This isn't a book thread but the author actually does discuss this somewhat. <NONE OF THIS IS A BOOK SPOILER> You just have to accept that Claire's love for Jamie outweighs all the inconveniences of preindustrial times. We are also supposed to believe that Claire is more or less prepared for this because she was raised by her archaeologist uncle and grew up basically sleeping in tents and cooking by a fire. Of course that logic works a lot better the first time through and not after she's been living the lap of luxury for the past 20 years. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by WInterfalls

[Cdh20]

5 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

I mean you are somewhat. This isn't a book thread but the author actually does discuss this somewhat. <NONE OF THIS IS A BOOK SPOILER> You just have to accept that Claire's love for Jamie outweighs all the inconveniences of preindustrial times. We are also supposed to believe that Claire is more or less prepared for this because she was raised by her archaeologist uncle and grew up basically sleeping in tents and cooking by a fire. Of course that logic works a lot better the first time through and not after she's been living the lap of luxury for the past 20 years. 

I totally agree that the first time would have been so much easier for her, considering her childhood, & war times, whereas during  the 50's & 60's modern conveniences became more prevalent, & thus now she must miss some of those things? This is of course why Jamie cannot be a regular man, LOL! Because now she has given it all up just to be with him, in any situation. I always got the feeling from the show that Claire didn't realize how much she loved Jamie & her life with him until she returned to her own time, which they made glaringly obvious in season 3 in those first few episodes!

[Cdh20]

52 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I meant it more in regards to Jamie and Claire's mindset that the two of them can change major events, not the show focusing on Bree's journey post-Claire.

 Oh you meant that convo where Jamie says they'll make America  a good place for Bri?

I thought Claire learned a lesson about changing the world so I wonder going forward if she tries again? 

54 minutes ago, taanja said:

No. This is the no book talk thread-- so No. I haven't read anything past the first book oh so many years ago that I forgot most of it except the premise-- woman goes back in time to Scotland pre- Battle of Culloden. That's it.

Oh! The book of time travel! I forgot! Ok. So did she make her own outfit like Claire did? Cuz where can one just go to buy an 18th century dress?

The hardest part for me in my suspension of belief when watching this show is accepting that someone like Claire-- smart and educated --would choose to go back to a time before running water/indoor plumbing (my god think of the logistics just to bathe! The water has to be drawn from somewhere--a well that has to first be dug or a river or lake) then heated! then dumped into a vessel like a tub ,, it's a freakin' process!) <<< and that is just bathing! What about washing cloths/bed lines and such???

Oh and does Claire still  get her period? Because-- think of that ladies! The "rags" would have to be washed out and reused! Oy!

Ok ok! I obviously am putting way more logical thought into this than the author.

Didn't all girls in the 60's take home ec-sewing?

[taanja]

5 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

 Oh you meant that convo where Jamie says they'll make America  a good place for Bri?

I thought Claire learned a lesson about changing the world so I wonder going forward if she tries again? 

Didn't all girls in the 60's take home ec-sewing?

Sure. I did. But I can't sew a button back on much less an entire outfit! haha!

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, taanja said:

why would anyone chose to go back to pre-industrial revolution times? No running water! No electricity! No god damn conveniences of any kind. The first time she "fell" through the stones was an accident -- but doing it again on purpose? what? Why? Sorry Jaime isn't all that

Twu wuv!

3 hours ago, taanja said:

So that skull with the silver fillings came from Scotland too? and crossed the ocean to the very spot where Claire happens to end up?

Presumably there is more than one "stargate".  The one in Scotland is simply the only one known to Claire/Jamie/etc.

3 hours ago, taanja said:

How do people know that the story of Claire and Jaime dying in a fire is a fake? Did the show gives us some kind of clue?

No clue at all.  (I swear, I have not read the books!)  It was pure speculation/wishful thinking on my part.  Just one way I can explain to myself the obituary, and continue to believe they lived happily ever after.

3 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I think we know that Jamie & Claire haven't died yet as there is 8/9 books, even if we haven't read them all!

See?  I didn't even know that!

[BitterApple]

Assuming the Cherokee woman was accurate, she mentions Claire having more than medicine when her hair turns white. Maybe that could be interpreted as another sign that (at least) Claire lives to a ripe old age. 

At this point, I'm thinking the Obituary is the plot device needed to get Brianna through the Stones. Again, not a book reader so I have nothing to back it up.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Presumably there is more than one "stargate".  The one in Scotland is simply the only one known to Claire/Jamie/etc.

There was also that cave water portal thing Geillis was going to go through in Jamaica last season to get to Bree. But then she lost her head.

[WInterfalls]

47 minutes ago, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

There was also that cave water portal thing Geillis was going to go through in Jamaica last season to get to Bree. But then she lost her head.

Correct the but the only one Bri would know about is Craigh Na Dun. 

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

Just now, WInterfalls said:

Correct the but the only one Bri would know about is Craigh Na Dun. 

Right. But the post I quoted said the only one known to Claire/Jamie (and etc) those two know of this other one. I was just pointing out that the show has shown at least one other travel spot. I thought there was another comment or two where it seemed like viewers thought Scotland was the only one.

[Netfoot]

13 minutes ago, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

Right. But the post I quoted said the only one known to Claire/Jamie (and etc) those two know of this other one.

You're right - I did say so... because I forgot about the Jamaican the water portal thingy.  I think the general point still holds, though:  The skull with the silver fillings didn't have to have come from Scotland. Or Jamaica.  For all we know, there are thousands of "portals" located all over the world.  

[SimonSeymour]

On 11/26/2018 at 1:47 PM, Token said:

It's too bad, with all of the First Nations actors they possibly could have chosen, that they had to go with someone who has convictions for beating up women.  Good choice, show!!  Really sends a message.

I’m interested in this. Please explain with more detail about with whom you are referring to. 

To clarify, I’m genuinely interested and not trying to debate you. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 11/26/2018 at 6:32 PM, heavysnaxx said:

Re cold: How exactly was Claire not shaking with cold after being out in last week's storm and weighted down by soaking wet woolens? Don't they all reek of mildew?

 

22 hours ago, AheadofStraight said:

Wool is a natural insulator and still keeps you warm when wet. It's also resistant to mold & mildew. https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/hiking/wool-when-wet.htm

 

20 hours ago, mledawn said:

I was going to say, wool is magic. She'd smell like a sheep for sure, but she'd be warm.

Ha, I was going to jump to wool's defense too! Wool is awesome. It naturally wicks moisture away from your skin, it absorbs 36% of its weight in moisture, and it dries quickly. It also prohibits bacterial growth which means you won't stink from sweating (most of the smell associated with body odor is caused by your sweat getting on your clothes and then bacteria breeding). I have loved seeing Claire wrapped up in wool shawls and the like because it's accurate as well as practical!

[AheadofStraight]

4 hours ago, SimonSeymour said:

I’m interested in this. Please explain with more detail about with whom you are referring to. 

To clarify, I’m genuinely interested and not trying to debate you. 

https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/25/outlander-will-strongheart-assault-conviction/

[terrymct]

On 11/25/2018 at 11:30 AM, riverheightsnancy said:

Loved this episode. Made me sad when I realized that Claire and Jamie will die (or already are dead). That impacted me more than almost anything else on this show and Roger's reaction to it. Really looking forward to Bree going through-I assume she must be able to. Maybe Roger can go too. 

 

They don't have to die in the fire.  Bree and/or Roger could stop it.  Roger has to end up able to go through the stones so that he and Bree bond and the star crossed lovers (who are actually related) end up together.   Their saving Claire and Jamie would be the ultimate "OMG!  Sooooo romantic!" moment.

Speaking of time travel, it'd be interesting to see the future changed by Claire (or others) actions.  If I recall correctly, the show said basically that big things are going to happen regardless of the characters' actions or intentions to change them.   That sort of frees up the writer to do whatever she wants and not worry.   It'd be interesting, though, if they went a different direction.  Jamie and Claire settle Frasier's Ridge, which until time travel intervened was the family land of someone who went on to do something significant.   Or a butterfly effect of some kind.  Claire and Jamie accidentally cause the Civil War to end differently.  

[terrymct]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:47 PM, Token said:

It's too bad, with all of the First Nations actors they possibly could have chosen, that they had to go with someone who has convictions for beating up women.  Good choice, show!!  Really sends a message.

Especially given the speech about how the Tribe had expelled the man who became the "bear" for assaulting his wife.

[kwnyc]

Quote

1 hour ago, terrymct said:

the star crossed lovers (who are actually related)

 

They are far enough apart for it not to be TOO weird. Let's see: Bree's great uncle (Dougal) is the many-times-over grandfather to Roger. And while Bree has half-18th century DNA, Roger's all 20th century. :-) (Yes, I think about these things.)

[taanja]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

 

Ha, I was going to jump to wool's defense too! Wool is awesome. It naturally wicks moisture away from your skin, it absorbs 36% of its weight in moisture, and it dries quickly. It also prohibits bacterial growth which means you won't stink from sweating (most of the smell associated with body odor is caused by your sweat getting on your clothes and then bacteria breeding). I have loved seeing Claire wrapped up in wool shawls and the like because it's accurate as well as practical!

But was her skirt and blouse and undergarments all made of wool? Cuz it looked like only that wrap thingy she had on was wool -- all the other clothing looked cloth-like-- which would get soaking wet and smell to high heaven! Because let's face it-- bathing was a chore -- so was washing cloths. and it didn't look like Claire had washed or bathed since that night.

Which brings me to the boots-- so are the soles made of synthetic material?  Seems I remember my patent leather boots from about 1968 had synthetic soles--- like rubber. Forget the zippers!

Rubber/plastic would be unheard of thing in 1768! (kind of like that clear plastic baggie Claire had the pictures in. The clear plastic baggie that NO ONE remarked on-- like they had seen clear plastic baggies all their lives!) Every time Claire pulled out the pictures of Brianna and removed them from the clear plastic baggie -- I was like-- anyone??? Anyone??? You would think Jaime would marvel at such technology.

[Token]

10 hours ago, SimonSeymour said:

I’m interested in this. Please explain with more detail about with whom you are referring to. 

To clarify, I’m genuinely interested and not trying to debate you. 

Will Strongheart's nasty history

5 hours ago, terrymct said:

Especially given the speech about how the Tribe had expelled the man who became the "bear" for assaulting his wife.

You would not believe how many times I yelled at my screen during that scene.  So many things he said, I was like, "WTF??  Are you kidding??  You hypocrite!"

[BitterApple]

What a nasty piece of work. I can't believe they hired him.

[ganesh]

I'm disappointed they showed "Fraser's Ridge" in the book. I just think it's premature at this point in the show.

On 11/25/2018 at 7:45 PM, BitterApple said:

Obviously they'll die at some point, but I don't think it's in the early years after being deeded all that land.

Just tv-wise, they aren't going to kill them off for several years in our real world tv watching time. I don't believe for a second that they're meeting a tragic fate any time soon. I can totally buy they get themselves into trouble and fake their deaths to head North or something. 

I mean, this show is basically a fairy tale. There's really never been any real drama. Claire would have been killed in like the first half hour of traveling back otherwise. 

 

On 11/27/2018 at 6:41 PM, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

There was also that cave water portal thing Geillis was going to go through in Jamaica last season to get to Bree. But then she lost her head.

The beginning of this season seems to indicate there are stones in America and they are known to the native peoples. But there's no way for Brianna to know that. 

I did have a huge laugh when Jamie was trying hard to speak Cherokee and the guy answered in plain english. 

You know, not for nothing, but they have 10,000 acres and they build the tiniest cabin imaginable. It's not like they're short on lumber. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by ganesh

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

It's not like they're short on lumber.

Building a log cabin by hand without any power saws or cranes or winches....  I think they are limited by what they can physically achieve, rather than by the amount of land or number of logs they can lay claim to.  And actually, I was pleasantly surprised at the large size of their cabin, in comparison to the 12'x16' one-roomed box many early home-makers settled for.

[ganesh]

Yeah, but there's nothing stopping them from making it 30 by 30 except for time.