X-Men Franchise

[JessePinkman]

Heh, they actually took that photo back at SDCC; there's an older one with all those people plus the cast of the ill-starred Fantastic Four.

 

The younger castmembers are absent from this particular photo.  The current run of X-Men films are the strongest the franchise has ever been, to my mind (I was a fan of Singer's first two films too, but FC and DOFP took it to a new level).

 

To me they're just so disjointed, the timeline makes no sense, it's all about Mystique (???) for some reason, it's just a lot of...noise. Like DoFP made NO sense to me, the stuff in the future came across really stupid and looked so cheap, I couldn't believe it. 

[stealinghome]

I liked DoFP quite a bit, but personally think First Class is really overrated. Erik and Charles' 5-minute insta-bromance was super weak and Mystique and Beast aside, most of the characters were so bland. (And January Jones as freaking Emma Frost? HELL no.) And I'm not hopeful for Apocalypse based on the trailer, though I'd like to be wrong. My X-movies ranking would probably go:

 

DoFP

X2 (occasionally gets the top spot when I'm in the right mood)

X-Men

First Class

The Last Stand

 

I haven't bothered watching any of the Wolverine movies because, while Hugh Jackman is great in the role, I am just not interested in more Wolverine manpain.

Edited January 5, 2016 by stealinghome

[Dandesun]

I watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine just to see Gambit. (And, to be honest, Hugh Jackman naked... I'm not made of stone, people.) I honestly felt like they did all right with Remy but, MAN, what they turned Deadpool into was an atrocity and I'd really like to know who is responsible for that debacle. I've heard that The Wolverine is pretty good but... my long-standing Wolverine fatigue finally caught up with Hugh Jackman's incendiary charisma. I think I had it in the background at home one evening and didn't pay any real attention to it at all.

 

They need to do better now. There are scores of characters to work with. Start working with them. No more Mystique... she bears no real resemblance to the comic character anyway and the last thing I want to see at this point is the 'kinder, gentler' Mystique they're trying to sell in the movies. Bitch slit Banshee's throat! I will never forget! And if they wanted to go kinder and gentler then they should have really gone for it and brought in Destiny and Rogue rather than make her Charles' adoptive sister that he and Erik apparently fight over or whatever.

 

Which I don't buy anyway because Charles and Erik are totes in love and stuff.

 

There have been long stretches of time when Charles was gone and so was Magneto. It's time to concentrate on some of the other mainstays. Storm is so important to the X-Universe and they have yet to get her down. Scott has consistently been shoved aside for Wolverine. There are so many characters they could play with and storylines they could do that with, too... There's Jean, Ororo, Scott, Kitty, Kurt, Piotr, Rogue, Elisabeth, Allison, Rachel, Alex..

 

Will they ever acknowledge that Havok and Cyclops are brothers? Will they introduce Lorna as Erik's daughter? They've convoluted their own source so much that it's hard to figure out what they can do at this point. I understand it to a point but we do run into issues when we have Jean and Jubilee as the same age... or when there is no such thing as 'the original five' because they've just fucked around with things so much.

 

At this point, I'd like Apocalypse to put an end to the Charles, Erik, Mystique nonsense and move forward with ACTUAL X-MEN!!

[caracas1914]

I just wanna see Apocalypse ( Oscar Isaac) nekkid.

Don't ask for much.

[Bruinsfan]

The problem with putting an end to the Charles and Erik "nonsense" is that the characters exemplify the two conflicting political outlooks among mutants and happen to be played by the best actors in the franchise in both setting periods. You lose a LOT if you jettison them.

[Eyes High]

The problem with putting an end to the Charles and Erik "nonsense" is that the characters exemplify the two conflicting political outlooks among mutants and happen to be played by the best actors in the franchise in both setting periods. You lose a LOT if you jettison them.

 

By cutting out the Charles and Erik "nonsense," you eliminate (in my opinion) the best part of both settings. The older X-Men cast in particular seemed to have a number of mediocre or even wooden actors or actors who were mediocre in the role; Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen bringing their Shakespearean A-game not only elevated the entire enterprise but provided a necessary distraction from the issues with the other cast members. (I also love that Stewart and McKellen are now real-life BFFs thanks to the X-Men franchise.) Ditto for James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender: they not only act the shit out of their roles but make even the fantasy elements seem important and compelling.

 

With all that said, I agree that the Mystique stuff is ridiculous, and that Charles and Erik are clearly in love.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Eyes High

[Dandesun]

The Charles, Erik and Mystique nonsense. 

 

Again, at this point, I feel that the Xavier/Magneto duality has been sufficiently set up to the point where they can take a back seat at the least. I love Stewart and McKellan. I also love McAvoy and Fassbender. But the X-men have to invest in other characters now. They have to. That's what I'm hoping for with Apocalypse. That they invest in Jean and Scott and Storm at the very least enough for them to ground a movie or two.

 

Do you think they'll ever tackle Genosha? What it was... what it became? The first Genosha story (A Green and Pleasant Land) was particularly grim and certainly left no room for questioning who was good and who was bad... the allegory at the time was apartheid in South Africa and it continued to be an issue for several years in the books long before Magneto was given control of it and turned it into a Mutant Homeland... that was later destroyed. I don't know... I just think that they need to expand the X-Men Movie Universe to more. They've had to adjust with Wolverine, they need to do so again.

[stealinghome]

Again, at this point, I feel that the Xavier/Magneto duality has been sufficiently set up to the point where they can take a back seat at the least. I love Stewart and McKellan. I also love McAvoy and Fassbender. But the X-men have to invest in other characters now. They have to. That's what I'm hoping for with Apocalypse. That they invest in Jean and Scott and Storm at the very least enough for them to ground a movie or two.

Agreed. I wouldn't want to jettison Xavier and Magneto permanently, BUT I think a movie or two in which they're missing or backburnered, and their followers have to figure out their own personal moralities without them and interact as teams without either looming over the collective shoulders, could be very compelling. I know people are tired of Mystique, but put Actually-Written-Like-In-The-Comics Mystique and Cyclops in a bunch of scenes together as co-leaders needing to work together. Let Storm and a turncoat Colossus argue their respective points. Etc etc. I agree that Xavier and Magneto are important as the incarnations of the two points of view, but there's a lot of shades of gray in between them, and removing them from the equation to get at the shades of gray would be really interesting.

 

Also, I agree that the movies need to start investing in heroes beyond Wolverine and Xavier (and also villains beyond Magneto). Only focusing on the same three characters is getting pretty stale.

 

I don't want the movies to ever do Mystique/Destiny because there's no way the movies will let them be lovers, and the explicit de-queering would enrage me. (On the other hand, if the movie had them as a couple, totally! By all means bring them on! I just doubt that would ever be allowed.)

[Trini]

I watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine just to see Gambit. (And, to be honest, Hugh Jackman naked... I'm not made of stone, people.)

 

Ha! No shame, Dandesun. That scene and the 'slo-mo walk away from an explosion'* are the ones I always rewatch when I come across it on TV.

 

*The way they shot/edited it was hilarious. Like, "We know this is cliché... we're doing it anyway. Enjoy!"

[Demented Daisy]

Rumors are that they will start the (Dark) Phoenix Saga with the next movie.  (Where did I put that article?)

 

ETA Here it is.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[Advance35]

Good Lord Please No.

 

I like the Jean Grey character but my god the Phoenix is awful in pretty much ever incarnation.   Would FOX really be stupid enough to NOT put that disaster of a plot device in the rearview mirror.  I have know doubt Singer is arrogant and foolish enough to but I would hope a higher up would veto that bonehead decision.   Sigh.

[Joe]

He didn't get to do Dark Phoenix last time, I'm not surprised that he'd take another crack at it. Advance, what don't you like about it?

[Raja]

He didn't get to do Dark Phoenix last time, I'm not surprised that he'd take another crack at it. Advance, what don't you like about it?

without establishing Jean in the current timeline Dar Phenoix might as well be the cloud from Green Lantern

[JessePinkman]

Do you think they'll ever tackle Genosha? What it was... what it became? 

 

This studio can't even handle a school full of mutants, I can't imagine how badly they'd fuck up a whole island of them.

 

I remember how stupid excited I was at the end of X2 when they hinted at the Dark Phoenix saga, I don't think they could get me engaged in the idea of that story again after the absolute mess that was X3. 

[Advance35]

He didn't get to do Dark Phoenix last time, I'm not surprised that he'd take another crack at it. Advance, what don't you like about it?

 

Maybe it's over-exposure.  My first experience with Phoenix was in the 90's Cartoon.   I liked it there.   I liked that it bought a backstage character to the forefront, the show played out the story, let the Jean Grey character survive it and then allowed her to move on.   Later, We got good character moments including Jean Grey's rendition of Hell's Kitchen in the X-Mas episode and she was the catalyst in the "Beyond Good and Evil" cartoon event.  

 

But the comics never let it go.   I think there are so many other avenues that could be explored with the character but writers never seem willing to do it.   Some of my favorite storylines have Jean Grey playing a prominent role and she is not infested with the Phoenix at the time.   In the comics, "Inferno", "The Mutant Massacre", "X-Tinction Agenda", "X-Cutioner's Song" and wondeful moments like Illyana's death and her proposal to Scott (always liked that she proposed to him, even though it did turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes of her life).  

 

And now instead of focusing on exposing the character to a new generation, they are just going to infest her with the Phoenix and undoubtedly shuffle her off stage after the same old same old happens.   I guess I was just hoping for different in the Movie Medium.  Sigh,.

[JessePinkman]

Maybe it's over-exposure.  My first experience with Phoenix was in the 90's Cartoon.   I liked it there.   I liked that it bought a backstage character to the forefront, the show played out the story, let the Jean Grey character survive it and then allowed her to move on.   Later, We got good character moments including Jean Grey's rendition of Hell's Kitchen in the X-Mas episode and she was the catalyst in the "Beyond Good and Evil" cartoon event.  

 

But the comics never let it go.   I think there are so many other avenues that could be explored with the character but writers never seem willing to do it.   Some of my favorite storylines have Jean Grey playing a prominent role and she is not infested with the Phoenix at the time.   In the comics, "Inferno", "The Mutant Massacre", "X-Tinction Agenda", "X-Cutioner's Song" and wondeful moments like Illyana's death and her proposal to Scott (always liked that she proposed to him, even though it did turn out to be one of the biggest mistakes of her life).  

 

Comics do this so much! What happens is that the readers become the creators and get their nostalgia goggles on so the only things they can write are the things THEY enjoyed as a kid. Because after the Phoenix saga and Jean's resurrection the character actually went years WITHOUT dealing with any Phoenix drama but as soon as those kids grew up it became all Phoenix all the time.

[SeanC]

And now instead of focusing on exposing the character to a new generation, they are just going to infest her with the Phoenix and undoubtedly shuffle her off stage after the same old same old happens. I guess I was just hoping for different in the Movie Medium. Sigh,.

She's still around in the DOFP epilogue, so whatever happens she's not being shuffled offstage.

[Dandesun]

There are various things I like regarding Jean and the Phoenix. I like the concept that she can actually be that powerful without the cosmic force. I like that after quite a long struggle she ended up taking the name and making it her own. The short-lived Revolution story where she had embraced the name and had a stylized Phoenix on her uniform but it was just Jean taking that as her code-name as opposed to being possessed by a flaming space bird.

 

What's more, post-Inferno where they had Jean absorb the memories of Phoenix and Madelyne... more should have been done with that. Jean is more than just the Phoenix although I do like that her potential and her power rating makes her just as strong... just on her own terms.

 

Why writers can't use a super powerful character like Jean... whether she's Phoenix or not is what confuses me. But then, I'm still not sure why Emma Frost of all people became the premier X-Woman. I have a much harder time with that.

[JessePinkman]

Why writers can't use a super powerful character like Jean... whether she's Phoenix or not is what confuses me. But then, I'm still not sure why Emma Frost of all people became the premier X-Woman. I have a much harder time with that.

 

Grant Morrison had a hard-on for her 15 years ago and everyone else just ran with it.

[Bruinsfan]

Emma seems to have taken a step back out of the limelight these days since her breakup with Scott, though I'm not sure who exactly is the premiere leading lady among the mutants anymore. Maybe Kitty Pryde?

 

Morrison's also responsible for Emma suddenly becoming British, isn't he?

[Dandesun]

Kitty isn't even with the X-men now. She's running around space with the Guardians as the new Star Lord. (Peter is trying to be the Spartaxx emperor.

Storm is still around, though, and heading the team in Extraordinary X-men.

[Danny Franks]

Grant Morrison had a hard-on for her 15 years ago and everyone else just ran with it.

 

That's still not as bad as Mike Carey's 'I'm gonna make a whole X-Men team of villains like Mystique and Sabertooth, because I think they're cool. Also, Magneto is my on-page avatar' run on the comic. That pretty much ended my X-Men interest.

 

These movies do nothing to revive it, though. Mystique was actually cool when she had some... wait for it... mystique. In X-Men and X-Men 2, she was great. Rebecca Romijn did an excellent job with the character. Then they decided, for some ludicrous reason, to make her a teen drama queen, and when Lawrence's career sky-rocketed, they just decided to make it All About Her.

 

If not for the crap of the recent movies, I might want to watch this new one to see how Sophie Turner does as Jean Grey. But I don't think I can force myself to do it.

[SeanC]

That's still not as bad as Mike Carey's 'I'm gonna make a whole X-Men team of villains like Mystique and Sabertooth, because I think they're cool. Also, Magneto is my on-page avatar' run on the comic. That pretty much ended my X-Men interest.

The point of said team having villains on it was that most of them actually turned on the X-Men during "Messiah CompleX", as it turned out (in any event, the focal point of that run was Rogue). And Magneto being on the good guys' side is hardly a new thing; Claremont did that extensively back in the good old days. Edited January 9, 2016 by SeanC

[Danny Franks]

The point of said team having villains on it was that most of them actually turned on the X-Men during "Messiah CompleX", as it turned out (in any event, the focal point of that run was Rogue). And Magneto being on the good guys' side is hardly a new thing; Claremont did that extensively back in the good old days.

 

The problem with them being on the team was that any idiot would see that them turning against the team was a foregone conclusion. There was no need for that sudden yet inevitable betrayal for Messiah Complex to work. There were plenty of villains used in the story, even in that initial part of the story, that had not been part of the X-Men.

 

Yes, Magneto has sided with the good guys before, but Carey's treatment of the character was some of the most blatant character favouritism I've ever seen, even in an industry rife with it. I've seen plenty of people praise what Carey did, but I never found a single positive aspect of it, or any characters who read like the characters I had known them to be. He was worse than Peter Milligan and Chuck Austen, and that's saying something.

[Dandesun]

It is unfortunate but Carey did a lot to kill my love of Rogue. I don't hate her but I loved her so completely for so long and he just seemed to take everything I loved about her and water it down... while telling me that she was the best. thing. ever.

 

And the ridiculous Gambit/Rogue/Magneto triangle... ugh. Look, the Remy/Rogue push and pull had long since gotten tired, I will never argue against that but other than the interlude way back in UXM 273-274, I never really bought into the idea that Rogue would be that into Magneto. Basically, his own actions sealed the deal against it. After all that time to have Rogue basically get control of her powers, admit that she totally loves Remy but needs 'time' and then immediately runs off and fucks Magneto? What now?

 

Let me be clear, I love Magneto... I think he's a fascinating, complex character but, good God y'all, that man is not made for romance. Period. The AoA attempt to sell them as a couple was gross, too. (He was her father figure... she considered Lorna to be her sister... and then gets with Magneto basically because he's the only one who could touch her and that was even weird... they had the same powers... it felt so gross and manipulative.)

 

For me, it wasn't even about Rogue and Gambit because I had rather fallen in love with a crack pairing that was never going to happen anyway... but it helped me distance myself from being over-involved in that pairing (which I was once upon a time) -- it was just... I don't know how Carey did it but he just wet blanketed everything I really loved about Rogue,

 

It also didn't help that Claremont had done X-Treme X-Men before that and, faults though it had, he really knew how to write a Rogue that I could root for.

[Danny Franks]

Who was your crack pairing, Dandesun? I always had a hankering for Gambit/Psylocke, based off a couple of early issues of Adjectiveless and Uncanny circa 280-290. As someone who loved Gambit far more than Rogue, I had long since had enough of their drama, and felt like Gambit was increasingly being treated like a tag-along in Rogue's life, rather than the vibrant, lively character he had been when he first debuted, and in his first years with the X-Men.

 

I felt like a succession of writers handled Rogue, Gambit and Rogue/Gambit very badly, and I was completely sour on the whole idea of them as a couple. The stuff with Gambit's secrets being strung out for too long, then with Joseph the Magneto clone, then with the ridiculous trial in UXM 350. It was time to let it go, and move both characters on. But no one ever did it. Until Carey came up with the bizarre series of events that you chronicle in your post, which still didn't move them beyond it. Even in X-Treme X-Men, it was all just too overwrought with melodrama and angst, and that book just trailed off in the end, until I really don't know how it ended.

 

Carey's approach was indicative of the increasingly fanboyish writing of the X-books that we would be in store for. The 80s kids finally getting to play with their old toys, and remoulding the universe into one that they liked, neglecting anything that didn't fit.

 

He was determined to paint Rogue as a leader, which just wasn't ever who she was, in my view. To make her that character, he had to blunt pretty much her entire personality and take away that rebellious edge that had been the hallmark of her character. Just like Kyle and Yost turned Cyclops into a take-no-shit badass because they apparently wished that he was Wolverine as kids, Carey seemed to wish Rogue was someone else.

[SeanC]

He was determined to paint Rogue as a leader, which just wasn't ever who she was, in my view. To make her that character, he had to blunt pretty much her entire personality and take away that rebellious edge that had been the hallmark of her character.

A character who hadn't been a leader being in such a role was the point of her character development in that run.

[Danny Franks]

A character who hadn't been a leader being in such a role was the point of her character development in that run.

And as I say, in doing so he blunted her personality to the extent that she had no discernible personality any more. She just stood there with her hood up, playing with her gloves all the time (because Humberto Ramos loved drawing her that way, I guess). Some characters aren't suited to leadership roles, and shouldn't be thrust into them.

Gambit, Iceman, Marrow, Polaris, Jubilee. These are characters who, off the top of my head, don't suit leadership roles because of the personalities they have. I think Rogue is the same. It's not a knock against the character, it's just a recognition of their own particular strengths and weaknesses

[Dandesun]

Who was your crack pairing, Dandesun? 

 

 

Gambit and Jean. Came about due to rumors before the Revolution storylines hit so it was after Scott got absorbed by Apocalypse and, well, fan-fic breeds interesting thoughts. What can i say?

 

Some characters aren't suited to leadership roles, and shouldn't be thrust into them.

Gambit, Iceman, Marrow, Polaris, Jubilee. These are characters who, off the top of my head, don't suit leadership roles because of the personalities they have. I think Rogue is the same. It's not a knock against the character, it's just a recognition of their own particular strengths and weaknesses

 

I tend to agree here. Not all characters are cut out to be leaders. Rogue never particularly struck me as a tactician. Frankly, though, I have long thought that Remy was more suited to a leadership role than Rogue was. His own experiences, particularly going solo, required him to think things out while Rogue was always doing someone else's bidding... first Mystique then as an X-Men, And that isn't to say that she couldn't take initiative at times, she could, but she has always struck me as being one of the team rather than a leader.

 

I think Gambit would prefer NOT to lead but it has always struck me that he could. It always felt like he was being groomed for something along those lines with the Thieves Guild and, again, being a solo thief for some time requires planning. Rogue's powerset (for much of her existence) was full on bruiser so it made sense for her to be the bruiser/tank rather than the tactician.

[Jeebus Cripes]

These movies do nothing to revive it, though. Mystique was actually cool when she had some... wait for it... mystique. In X-Men and X-Men 2, she was great. Rebecca Romijn did an excellent job with the character. Then they decided, for some ludicrous reason, to make her a teen drama queen, and when Lawrence's career sky-rocketed, they just decided to make it All About Her.

ITA. I adore Rebecca's performance and the way the character was handled. She's actually the only female character Singer managed to make compelling, though I think it was an accident. I don't even mind the scaly-reptile look they went with. All that said, I downright loathe Lawrence in the role. I have nothing against the actress in general, but she is painfully bad as Mystique. Everything about her is just awful! I watched Days of Future Past earlier tonight and ended up forwarding any scene that was all about her. I can't even tolerate it. I fear for the amount of screen-time she receives in Apocalypse, and I'm sure it's going to be massive.

[JessePinkman]

ITA. I adore Rebecca's performance and the way the character was handled. She's actually the only female character Singer managed to make compelling, though I think it was an accident. I don't even mind the scaly-reptile look they went with. All that said, I downright loathe Lawrence in the role. I have nothing against the actress in general, but she is painfully bad as Mystique. Everything about her is just awful! I watched Days of Future Past earlier tonight and ended up forwarding any scene that was all about her. I can't even tolerate it. I fear for the amount of screen-time she receives in Apocalypse, and I'm sure it's going to be massive.

I like her a lot as a person, she is funny and charming and quick witted but as an actress she is dull as all hell. She delivers her lines like she's reading her grocery list and when she's not doing that she's screaming someone's name with her scratchy voice. And...her face is utterly expressionless. I. Do. Not. Get. It.

Also apparently she didn't read the script for Apocalypse before filming the movie so this should be fun!

[Dandesun]

ITA. I adore Rebecca's performance and the way the character was handled. She's actually the only female character Singer managed to make compelling, though I think it was an accident. I don't even mind the scaly-reptile look they went with. All that said, I downright loathe Lawrence in the role. I have nothing against the actress in general, but she is painfully bad as Mystique. Everything about her is just awful! I watched Days of Future Past earlier tonight and ended up forwarding any scene that was all about her. I can't even tolerate it. I fear for the amount of screen-time she receives in Apocalypse, and I'm sure it's going to be massive.

 

Well, she was mysterious and deadly when RR played her and that works out for who the character is. The only thing that really goes against canon is having Mystique running around with Magneto. They were never that way in the comics. I'm, personally, not all that into the naked scaley look but whatever. It is what it is.

 

The real problem for me is when they turned Mystique into Charles Xaviers sister-friend and decided she needed to be heroic. On her best days, Mystique worked with the government leading a mutant task force but she always had her own agenda. Hell, Freedom Force were the ones that brought Magneto in for trial. They also went up against the X-men a lot...  but that was kind of the point of them. Freedom Force had the government backing and were entirely made up of criminals while the X-men were outlaws made up of heroes.

 

The worst part is that if they do decide to send her character to the darker side with this movie, I won't really care the whys and wherefores. I'll still be going 'Are we done with her now? Can the X-men movies focus on actual X-men now?'

[Danny Franks]

Gambit and Jean. Came about due to rumors before the Revolution storylines hit so it was after Scott got absorbed by Apocalypse and, well, fan-fic breeds interesting thoughts. What can i say?

 

That would have been a fun couple to explore, I think. Gambit's known for his irreverence and devil-may-care attitude, his disdain for following rules (as befits a thief). Jean has usually been portrayed as fairly serious and often a bit of a square. They would have brought out qualities in each other that neither Rogue or Cyclops did, because of those personality contrasts. Similar to the reasons I liked the idea of Gambit with Psylocke, really.

 

Of course, the Scott/Jean fans and the Wolverine/Jean fans would have rioted.

 

I think Gambit would prefer NOT to lead but it has always struck me that he could. It always felt like he was being groomed for something along those lines with the Thieves Guild and, again, being a solo thief for some time requires planning. Rogue's powerset (for much of her existence) was full on bruiser so it made sense for her to be the bruiser/tank rather than the tactician.

 

Yeah, with Gambit I do see it more as a reluctance to accept responsibility and perhaps even a lack of the self-belief needed to lead. He has shown the potential to be a leader, but turned his back on it. Which is more than I can say for the others I mention there. Peter David tried to put Polaris in a leadership role a couple of years ago, but I don't think it worked very well.

 

As for Jennifer Lawrence, I'm not a fan. I agree that her performances in any movie are bland and unimpressive, and she seems to go from stoic and blank to histrionics, without much in between. After seeing her in about five or six movies, I just don't think she's very good.

 

Trying to portray Mystique as heroic is just a complete fail, in my view. She's been such a self-centred, destructive presence in the comics, for decades, and even with the already mentioned tendency of some writers to try reforming their pet characters, it almost never sticks. It seems like it has happened in the movies just because of the unfortunate coincidence of the actress they cast to play her making it big in the meantime. That should never influence narrative decisions.

[spaulding]

As for Jennifer Lawrence, I'm not a fan. I agree that her performances in any movie are bland and unimpressive, and she seems to go from stoic and blank to histrionics, without much in between. After seeing her in about five or six movies, I just don't think she's very good.

 

Trying to portray Mystique as heroic is just a complete fail, in my view. She's been such a self-centred, destructive presence in the comics, for decades, and even with the already mentioned tendency of some writers to try reforming their pet characters, it almost never sticks. It seems like it has happened in the movies just because of the unfortunate coincidence of the actress they cast to play her making it big in the meantime. That should never influence narrative decisions.

 

I'm not a fan of Lawrence, and her Mystique is bland at best.  I did love Rebecca Romijn's Mystique. 

 

The worst part of DOFP was the focus on Mystique.  The fate of the world is dependent on Sad Raven being less sad.  I'm really, really pissed that the next installment will focus a lot on Mystique again.  At most, she's a minor character. 

 

Last night, DOFP: The Rogue Cut was on Cinemax.  I was pleasantly surprised.

[Jeebus Cripes]

The real problem for me is when they turned Mystique into Charles Xaviers sister-friend and decided she needed to be heroic. On her best days, Mystique worked with the government leading a mutant task force but she always had her own agenda. Hell, Freedom Force were the ones that brought Magneto in for trial. They also went up against the X-men a lot...  but that was kind of the point of them. Freedom Force had the government backing and were entirely made up of criminals while the X-men were outlaws made up of heroes.

 

The weird ass sibling relationship between Charles and Mystique is the worst shit to happen to the franchise since X3. At least we can pretend X3 never happened, but we're expected to accept this bullshit history between two characters who have exactly ZERO fucks to give about one another in the comics? It's absurd. Crap like this is why I want a reboot so badly. Before Marvel Studios showed me comic films could be done proper, and with respect to the source material, I was all about Singer's X-franchise. His films made ludicrous changes, but the essence of the comic came through, so I forgave a lot. Now I want a proper X-Men film. I want it out of FOX's hands and back where it belongs.

[spaulding]

I'm going to backpedal because of the Tatum/Gambit gossip from the Golden Globes.

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/01/channing-tatum-golden-globes-haircut-gambit

 

Ugh, Jenko as Gambit.

 

And the ridiculous Gambit/Rogue/Magneto triangle... ugh. Look, the Remy/Rogue push and pull had long since gotten tired, I will never argue against that but other than the interlude way back in UXM 273-274, I never really bought into the idea that Rogue would be that into Magneto. Basically, his own actions sealed the deal against it. After all that time to have Rogue basically get control of her powers, admit that she totally loves Remy but needs 'time' and then immediately runs off and fucks Magneto? What now?

 

I never got the Magneto/Rogue pairing.  At most, she should be thankful that he saved her from Ms. Marvel in the Savage Land.  But it wasn't romantic. 

 

And Rogue was totes crazy for Gambit.  The Rogue/Gambit pairing was a big reason why fangirls started to read the XMen comics.  I got a little tired of the pairing when the relationship seemed to be going emo.

 

I still love the pairing, but I wouldn't mind them with other people.  Gambit really likes to mindfuck with people, so it would be interesting if he hooked up with a telekinetic.  There's no way that he could bullshit Jean or Psylocke.

 

Let me be clear, I love Magneto... I think he's a fascinating, complex character but, good God y'all, that man is not made for romance. Period. The AoA attempt to sell them as a couple was gross, too. (He was her father figure... she considered Lorna to be her sister... and then gets with Magneto basically because he's the only one who could touch her and that was even weird... they had the same powers... it felt so gross and manipulative.)

 

Their pairing in AoA was weird.  Rogue could tough Magneto, but she couldn't even touch her son.  What was up with that? 

 

Also apparently she didn't read the script for Apocalypse before filming the movie so this should be fun!

 

Ugh, and Jennifer Lawrence is open to playing Mystique after Apocalypse. 

 

More Sad Raven and Olivia Munn trying to be sexy.  I will scream if they ruin Apocalypse. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by spaulding

[stealinghome]

Honestly, I think Fox could make a decent X-movie if they put the right people in charge. The problem at this point imo is Singer...his view is getting stale at this point.

[Demented Daisy]

Gambit loses its October release date

[benteen]

Gambit out of the X-Men movies equals who gives a shit to me.

 

I enjoyed Days of Future Past.  But I think Singer hasn't done a great job bringing most of the X-Men characters to life and is not going with the action scenes.

[Jeebus Cripes]

Gambit loses its October release date

 

I'm feverishly praying that the whole film gets shit-canned.

[JessePinkman]

Weird, you'd think that Apocalypse would include some sort of buildup for Gambit that they couldn't easily remove. Whatever, this whole movie idea just seemed like an excuse to be in business with Channing Tatum.

 

I enjoyed Days of Future Past.  But I think Singer hasn't done a great job bringing most of the X-Men characters to life and is not going with the action scenes.

 

If you ask me only 3 characters from all the movies have come across as fully formed characters, Xavier, Erik and Logan (I suppose we can add Deadpool to that list since I've learned more about what makes him tick in one movie than I have Storm in 4). That's it. Everyone else is window dressing and that's sad because they have this stable of dynamic fascinating characters to play with and they're squandering the majority of them.

[SeanC]

Weird, you'd think that Apocalypse would include some sort of buildup for Gambit that they couldn't easily remove

Why would you think that?  Apocalypse is set in 1983; Gambit is most likely set in the present-day, and in any event, even if there was setup it wouldn't be affected by the release date.

 

If you ask me only 3 characters from all the movies have come across as fully formed characters, Xavier, Erik and Logan (I suppose we can add Deadpool to that list since I've learned more about what makes him tick in one movie than I have Storm in 4).

Rogue gets quite a lot of definition in the first movie (she's a co-lead).  Mystique is pretty heavily developed in the prequel trilogy (many don't like this version of the character, but that doesn't change that she gets a lot of characterization).  I'd say plenty of the supporting characters (e.g., Iceman) are entirely acceptable in that capacity.

Edited February 29, 2016 by SeanC

[JessePinkman]

Why would you think that?  Apocalypse is set in 1983; Gambit is most likely set in the present-day, and in any event, even if there was setup it wouldn't be affected by the release date.

 

Time hardly matters in these movies anymore (why do you think Gambit is set in the present day? Honestly asking) and I figured for synergy they'd want to promote Gambit somehow.

[benteen]

I just don't think Gambit is that interesting outside of the world of the X-Men.

 

At one point, Gambit was maybe the second most popular X-Men but those days are long gone.  I'm not sure why to tell you the truth.  Maybe because he wasn't in the original X-Men movies?  Gambit is barely a footnote on the team at the moment.

Edited February 29, 2016 by benteen

[SeanC]

Yeah, I don't personally see the appeal of Gambit as a solo character, though he has had his own title from time to time.  I guess they see the character type (roguish outlaw) as something they can market, which I see the logic in, at least.

[Demented Daisy]

I think they were hoping that Gambit would be their "hunksicle", as my husband likes to call them.  

[Matt K]

Honestly, I was kind of looking forward to the Gambit movie.  I figured it'd be more like a heist movie with powers than the standard superhero one, but then again Fox really hasn't branched out in their material like Marvel/Disney has so who knows.

[Bruinsfan]

I think they were hoping that Gambit would be their "hunksicle", as my husband likes to call them.  

I think they've already filled that role.

[Demented Daisy]

I think they've already filled that role.

 

 

While cute, not sure he's on par with 2014's Sexiest Man Alive.  Marvel can also claim #2 on that list.  I'd be surprised if Chris Evans and Robert Downey, Jr. hadn't been on it at some point, as well.  ;-)

[FurryFury]

I don't consider Ashmore brothers especially sexy. Hemsworth's by far the sexiest Marvel actor for me.

Edited March 2, 2016 by FurryFury