The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Sakura12]

Schadenfreude is, by its very nature, mean-spirited and cruel. But I won't lie, I'm wallowing in it right now, as these critics are becoming more vocal in their criticisms of the show, and the creative choices made.

 

I've already gone from being an avowed viewer to not watching at all, and it's nice to see that other people really do feel the same. And it's not just my fellow crazies on this forum. I don't know who this Campea dude is, but when you've got someone who loved the show enough to run a weekly podcast about it, and even he is saying, 'no more. I've had enough', then those in charge of the show really have to sit down and look at what they're doing.

 

I do adhere to Joss Whedon's philosophy of giving people what they need rather than what they want, but it's not an easy thing to do. Television shows excite the emotions of those avid viewers like few other pop culture mediums, and if you get too caught up in your own ambitions and your own plans for the stories you want to tell, you can really, really abuse that love. And then you deserve it when those fans leave you.

I do feel bad for SA. But saying "trust the writers" is the wrong thing to say. Because most of us do not trust the writers and haven't been given a reason too.

Joss Whedon has earned people's trust. The Arrow writers have not.

 

John Campea thinking about dropping the show is pretty big. That kind of tells me he talked to SA about what's coming up and nothing interested him, least of all Laurel's tv fast track to BC. That also kind of tells me there won't be much Team Arrow either since John is a fan of the trio. The writers have to realize that comic Easter Eggs or one off DC villains are not what most fans watch for. We were watching a show about Oliver becoming Arrow and the team/family he builds that help him get there. 

 

SA also seems more excited for the stunts and maybe the guest stars then he is about the direction of the show. I know him and people are saying to give Laurel a chance. I gave Laurel a chance for 2 years and the only thing they succeed in doing is make me give up one of my favorite shows because of her. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

^ Oh, I feel bad for Stephen Amell, because he clearly loves this show, and values the fans who watch it. But it must be clear to him that the writers do not appear to have the show's best interests at heart, with the decisions they're making. There's not a lot he can do other than challenge them on those decisions, wherever possible.

 

I agree that telling viewers to trust the writers doesn't wash, and I think he needs to come up with a better technique. These writers have burned through so much goodwill in the last eight months, that it almost defies belief. He'd do better to be honest and say, 'this isn't what I want the show to be'. What are they going to do? Fire him?

 

Actually, maybe they would, and they'd rename the show Black Canary. Bet that'd be a success.

[Sakura12]

The actors that are no longer on the show, Caity, Celina and Manu have all said something about the writing, always in nice ways of course. What all of them said also helped me make my decision to drop this show. Basically it boiled down to "Why?" which is never a question the freaking actor should be asking about their character. 

[statsgirl]

I agree that telling viewers to trust the writers doesn't wash, and I think he needs to come up with a better technique. These writers have burned through so much goodwill in the last eight months, that it almost defies belief. He'd do better to be honest and say, 'this isn't what I want the show to be'. What are they going to do? Fire him?

That's it for me, that the last eight months have taught me to be wary of the writers, not to trust them.

 

Campea and Alan Sepinwall have been pretty vocal about not liking the turn the show has made this year, and Mo Ryan has stopped talking about it.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have influenced the EPs at all so far as we know.

 

At least Amell got them to stop "the caravan of women" into Oliver's bed.

 

 

Not so sure about TvLine, they seem neutral on the matter, just occasionally willing to stirring the pot..or maybe have I missed something? (I really hope I did).  :)

The guys are always neutral, but there seem to be a lot more negative comments about Laurel as BC and the direction of the season than there usually are.

Edited November 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[Guest]

This review is quite wordy at times but it made me feel better about the episode RE: Olicity and Ray and what could happen this season. So that's something I guess.

 

http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2014/11/arrow-3x07-draw-back-your-bow-love-is.html?m=1

[Password]

Great exposition. Two things that I absolutely agree with:

 

1. Felicity can be happy without Oliver.

2. We need to get inside Felicity's head ASAP.

 

The first I thoroughly believe because as the writer said, Felicity is happy with herself. I think Felicity would be at her happiest with Oliver. On the other hand I genuinely believe Oliver cannot live without Felicity. The second I believe because I really would like to know how she feels about Ray and the situation with Oliver. We can clamour all we like about Felicity loving Oliver but until we have that emotional connection with her again, it's easy to superficially say "oh well she obviously didn't love him". I really think that moment will come in ep 9, the mid season finale.

 

A side note: if the show can get Oliver into therapy I'd happily watch for the rest of the series. Just because.

[wonderwall]

This review is quite wordy at times but it made me feel better about the episode RE: Olicity and Ray and what could happen this season. So that's something I guess.

 

http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2014/11/arrow-3x07-draw-back-your-bow-love-is.html?m=1

This actually helped me like the episode a bit more... Maybe not Ray, but I appreciate what they're trying to do with Oliver/Felicity more. It's sad that I had to read this to appreciate what the writers are doing though...

[looptab]

The guys are always neutral, but there seem to be a lot more negative comments about Laurel as BC and the direction of the season than there usually are.

Oh, yes, that's true. I thought you were referring to specific articles :) 

[Kordi]

This actually helped me like the episode a bit more... Maybe not Ray, but I appreciate what they're trying to do with Oliver/Felicity more. It's sad that I had to read this to appreciate what the writers are doing though...

For me it is the same thing: I had do read some review first, before I was able to accept (and even like) the episode (before that I just couldn't stop ranting and being angry because of Ray's creepiness and Felicity's aparent OOC behaviour when she got "her presents"). I'm referring to the following review which IMO analyses Oliver's and Felicity's issues really well: http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/103115075043/love-hurts-draw-back-your-bow-3x07-review

[tv echo]

For me it is the same thing: I had do read some review first, before I was able to accept (and even like) the episode (before that I just couldn't stop ranting and being angry because of Ray's creepiness and Felicity's aparent OOC behaviour when she got "her presents"). I'm referring to the following review which IMO analyses Oliver's and Felicity's issues really well: http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/103115075043/love-hurts-draw-back-your-bow-3x07-review

This is a great review.  I loved the red and blue pill analogy, and the lighted fern symbolism!  Great insights (it's not about the perfect man, but the right man).

 

The Just About Write review was also good at providing insights into Felicity, Oliver and Ray.

[writersblock51]

Jbuffyangel nails the insight so well. I feel much better about the episode after reading her review. That tends to happen.

 

I do think she did a good job of outlining the changes Oliver is making this season: Thea, the LoA, Roy and supporting Felicity.  She's right, 2 years ago this is not how Oliver would have behaved.

The AV Club review:

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-draw-back-your-bow-212114

 

They gave it an A-.

Edited November 20, 2014 by writersblock51

[Kordi]

Hmmm, I spend much too much time browsing the internet for thoughts about Olicity in 3x07... but I can't help it *sigh*. Anyway, there is some nice reflection on Ray and Felicity:

"... The problem for me is that things between him and Felicity feel … disjointed to me. It feels like something is missing in that equation, and I think that’s because it is - and because it’s supposed to be. I do think that Felicity likes Ray. He’s not unlike her, and he’s uncomplicated, and he does have some truly likable qualities. But the two biggest things that work in Ray’s favor are these: ease and availability... Her kissing Ray and being with Ray isn’t about the build up. In fact, I think that’s part of the draw for her: there is no build up. There’s no fight, no wait, no … challenge. She is so tired of wanting someone who refuses to be with her and along comes Ray, who it takes no effort to be with."

see http://anextraordinarymuse.tumblr.com/post/103101721786/can-i-ask-you-something-did-the-whole-ray-and-felicity

Edited November 20, 2014 by Kordi

[Danny Franks]

 Ray, who it takes no effort to be with."

 

That's true. It seems like the effort would be to ever get away from him. It's hard to do when you're drugged and tied up somewhere, while the insane man contemplates using your skin to decorate his super suit.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Arrow initial ratings are in.  It had a 0.9 and 2.63 mil viewers, on par with last week.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/11/20/tv-ratings-wednesday-stalker-the-100-rise-law-and-order-svu-chicago-p-d-slide-arrow-flat/329895/

[Morrigan2575]

Guess Comics fans didn't even tune in to hate watch Cupid.. LOL

[manbearpig]

Those ratings are basically on par with last season though, right?

[Artsda]

Pretty much, the average of the entire season 2 was around 2.6-2.7.

 

However last nights episode is high for the season like the Felicity-centric episode a few weeks ago. Then ratings dropped for the episode after with her on Flash. Now it's bounced up again with the dress/Ray promo. I find the fluctuating interesting. 

[Morrigan2575]

Those ratings are basically on par with last season though, right?

It's down about a tenth in the demo for the first 7 episodes S2 to S3.  

 

S2 Episodes 1-7 : 1.0, highest episode (6) 1.2, lowest episode (4) 0.8

S3 Episodes 1-7: 0.9 highest episode (5) 1.1, lowest episode (2) 0.8

 

I'm excluding viewers since, viewers don't matter, only the demo is important.

[Password]

I'm referring to the following review which IMO analyses Oliver's and Felicity's issues really well: http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/103115075043/love-hurts-draw-back-your-bow-3x07-review

This post brings me great comfort. The way she analyses scenes, sometimes frame by frame is really amazing because many times I don't even connect the dots she does.

However I disagree about Felicity's speech. As wonderful and uplifting it was, that was the biggest WTF moment of the show for me. Even Ray was surprised. Though probably the moment he really LOOKED at her beyond her brains.

[apinknightmare]

This post brings me great comfort. The way she analyses scenes, sometimes frame by frame is really amazing because many times I don't even connect the dots she does.

However I disagree about Felicity's speech. As wonderful and uplifting it was, that was the biggest WTF moment of the show for me. Even Ray was surprised. Though probably the moment he really LOOKED at her beyond her brains.

 

Yeah, I don't think Felicity was communicating anything to the audience. She was looking at Ray and talking about Oliver, so it seemed way more intimate than it should've been because she is just a big 'ol projecting projector.

[Guest]

Here's another review which pretty much hits the nail on the head with everything I felt was wrong with the episode. I didn't dislike the episode as much as the reviewer but she picks out everything that was problematic.

 

http://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/stupid-cupid/

 

This person's reviews are always spot on actually. I recommend. 

[Danny Franks]

Here's another review which pretty much hits the nail on the head with everything I felt was wrong with the episode. I didn't dislike the episode as much as the reviewer but she picks out everything that was problematic.

 

http://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/stupid-cupid/

 

This person's reviews are always spot on actually. I recommend. 

 

That review is hilarious. I loved every word of it. And it made me even gladder that I'm not watching this steaming pile of horseshit. It sounds worse than everything I feared it would be when they first started making their summer spoiler announcements. Honestly, I didn't think they could fuck up this badly, but they appear to have really outdone themselves.

 

Also, I've not seen the guy who's playing Thea's new love interest before but... fucking hell that dude is about as skeevy as anyone I've seen in a long time. Was part of Malcolm's indoctrination of Thea to have her brain removed? And also her sense of smell, if he's as greasy as he looks. I feel so bad for Willa Holland, having to sell that as though it's some grand romantic moment. Hell, I feel for all of them, and I believe that there must be so much confusion on set now, when these guys get their scripts and stop and go, 'wait... what? What's my character doing? This doesn't seem right.' Poor bastards.

 

Someone please, please tweet that to the dopes who are in charge of this show. Not that they'd read it, I shouldn't think. Or if they did, they'd probably say, 'well, she hated it because Laurel wasn't in the episode.'

Edited November 20, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Password]

I think for me the writer hit it bang on the head concerning Felicity re "is she actually falling for this?" That's my biggest gripe, that in spite of the over stepping of boundaries Felicity is pretty much A-Ok with everything happening.

Folks there's only so much I can blame on being socially awkward before I need to reevaluate where MY boundaries are.

And yes Oh my gosh what was Diggle DOING this episode? Let them handle it, it's not your issues Diggle. What is Diggle actually frikin doing this season???

Edited November 20, 2014 by Limbo

[strikera0]

Final ratings:

 

2.64 million total viewers and a 0.9/3 in the demo.

 

Arrow should see it's ratings increase with the upcoming Flash crossover. Maybe they can crack the 3-million-viewer mark. The last time that happened was 2x09.

Edited November 20, 2014 by strikera0

[writersblock51]

Not sure if this is the proper thread for this but it's been discussed how the buzzwords that showrunners use have become meaningless. 

 

Arrow's mid season finale will change the show forever, for example.

 

Meanwhile, on S.H.I.E.L.D. this ground breaking gem:

"Executive Producer Maurissa Tancharoen let it slip that “After the midseason finale, things will never be the same again…” in an interview with Entertainment Weekly."

 

It's tiresome.

[Morrigan2575]

I was just bitching about that in the quiver thread. I was annoyed that the EPs gave the exact same quote for the mid season finale that they did for Laurel finding out the secret last year.

I find it so annoying. ...come up with new material!

[statsgirl]

The ArrowAfterShow this week was interesting.  After addressing the elephant (canary) in the room (starts at about the 4 minute mark), Campea just got so excited and  so enthusiastic about the show.  He said there are a thousand things they get right compared to the one they get wrong (people become superheros too fast), and proceeded to go through a good number of them.  He really liked the episode.

 

This guy is such a booster for the show. The EPs need to listen seriously to people like that instead of brushing them off as disgruntled fans.

[Guest]

The ArrowAfterShow this week was interesting.  After addressing the elephant (canary) in the room (starts at about the 4 minute mark), Campea just got so excited and  so enthusiastic about the show.  He said there are a thousand things they get right compared to the one they get wrong (people become superheros too fast), and proceeded to go through a good number of them.  He really liked the episode.

 

This guy is such a booster for the show. The EPs need to listen seriously to people like that instead of brushing them off as disgruntled fans.

 

I forgot about the Arrow After Show this week! I should listen but I know he likes Ray and doesn't really like Olicity, although I always enjoy his thoughts on Laurel as BC. 

 

I'd be surprised if he actually went through with his threat to stop watching the show though. 

[Chaser]

I don't mind that he doesn't like Olicity because I understand his reasons (how much he loves Team Arrow and so forth). They were the reasons I dragged my feet on the pairing. I didn't want the dynamic messed up either. I was surprised that one of the woman is almost anti-Olicity. She said that she didn't buy why Oliver was reacting that way because Oliver was in love with Laurel in S1 and then Sara in S2 and he was always treating Felicity like a little sister so she doesn't see it at all. I'm pretty sure she wants Ray and Felicity married. 

 

Honestly, I highly doubt that he is going to quit. He already said he was going to give them a couple episode to do something amazing to change his mind. And I think he really enjoys ranting on the character.

[apinknightmare]

She said that she didn't buy why Oliver was reacting that way because Oliver was in love with Laurel in S1 and then Sara in S2 and he was always treating Felicity like a little sister so she doesn't see it at all.

 

 

I find it so interesting how different people interpret the same things. Yes, Oliver was in love with Laurel in S1, I'm going to vote no on the being IN LOVE with Sara (I think he loved her, and was comforted by being with her, but I think it was unfinished business more than anything else). And regarding Felicity, let's just say that I'm glad my brother doesn't look at me like that.

 

To keep this on topic, I'll be surprised if he quits too. I don't think hating one character is enough to make you quit something if everything else entertains you. It's the same with me - I don't care enough about Laurel to be really mad at anything they do, although I will stop watching if her and Oliver get back together, because no.

Edited November 22, 2014 by apinknightmare

[BumpSetSpike]

I really enjoy John Campea's show.  It has become a ritual actual for me to watch it after Arrow because he always seems right now.  (I'm not a huge fan of his wife and her friend, but whatever).  When he shared all the reasons he didn't feel Laurel deserved to be Canary to SA, SA just looked so uncomfortable.  But I felt like SA needed to hear it from someone he respects that loves Arrow and not just the thousands of us who have been talking and tweeting about it.

 

 

[statsgirl]

I don't think he'll quit although I wouldn't be surprised if he does, depending on how they handle Laurel

while Oliver is away.  He said it would be awesome if the show revolved around Diggle and Felicity at that time.  I don't think he'll be so patient if it's Laurel/BC heavy.

 

Passion is what makes a dedicated viewer rather than indifference. He said he got thousands of tweets  agreeing with him about Laurel.  I guess I just don't understand why the producers are so married to the idea of her as the Black Canary that they're willing to ignore fans like him.

[NumberCruncher]

I know it's no more important than any other fan podcast but I really hope someone from the show is listening to Campea & Co. because while I don't always agree with everything they say (e.g. their love of creepy man Ray) they're usually more right than wrong about the strengths and weaknesses of the show.

This week's show was no exception. I really loved that John took the first few minutes to really explain in depth the rationale as to why he (like so many in the audience) has issues with Laurel because oftentimes it feels like fan criticism about or indifference to her gets dismissed because it's perceived as being due to the love of another character or coupling or because she isn't "wearing the fishnets" and kicking ass. He is spot on that it's a lack of proper development and characterization which I feel are points that often go right over the producers' heads.

I'll be curious to see whether the show continues based upon John's feelings as a viewer. I just don't see how the show is going to satisfy his demands enough to keep him watching based upon what's been thrown out in terms of upcoming storylines. It will be a shame to lose his viewpoint though because I have yet to find another Arrow-specific podcast that presents episode analysis as well as it does.

Edited November 22, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[Sakura12]

I tweeted him about hating the Laurel character. She is just awful and for me there is nothing they can do to fix her. Giving Laurel the sonic scream fixes NOTHING, that doesn't mean she gets magical martial arts skills as well. All that does is give her the power to scream loudly. That power alone is not going to help her that much. It would also once again point out the weaknesses in Laurel. Sara didn't need a super power to be a badass, she barely used her sonic devise. She relied on her skills and training to save the day. The only thing that will make me come back to Arrow is if they remove Laurel from it. 

 

I agree with him about some of the people becoming Super heroes overnight while others like Oliver and Sara had to work for years to reach that skill level. I get it's tv, but you can't have it both ways. Either it takes years of hardcore training or it takes a few boxing lessons. Showing both just takes me out of the show. Not everyone has to go through what Oliver and Sara went through, but they do have to go through as much training as they had to be believable as someone that can fight by their side or replace them.  

 

That includes Thea and Roy. I'll buy Thea being a great archer because of the trophy's in her room but I don't buy she's a ninja in 5 months. Same goes for Roy with the opposite, he knows some fighting skills but he should be nowhere near being a master archer. 

[Velocity23]

 

Poor Grant his hands look really tiny when compared with Stephen.

[Password]

Those. Arms. I see what Iris meant *fanning self*

[Kordi]

 

Poor Grant his hands look really tiny when compared with Stephen.

Am I seeing this correctly: Basically, it is Stephen who carries Greg, Grant is only supporting him a little bit, isn't he? LOL

[wingster55]

^ You're not wrong 

[pootlus]

Yup he's leaning on Grant for balance but it looks like Stephen's actually supporting most of his weight. Dude is seriously strong - Berlanti's just normal-sized but that still makes him pretty heavy and it's an awkward carry.

[Kordi]

SA shared a little story about this pic on his FB page: https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/photos/a.510703882348217.1073741826.146921975393078/759247207493882/?type=1&theater

[SonofaBiscuit]

I mean, where is Grant's other hand?  Is he even doing any lifting?  Amell's bulging veins confirm that he's doing most of the work.

Edited November 26, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[NumberCruncher]

Well I, for one, would like to take this opportunity to thank Grant for his laziness in this photo. ;)

[dtissagirl]

Alyssa Rosenberg is one of my very favorite pop culture critics/commentators ever, and she wrote a great article on the Washington Post today, about her reasons for loving Arrow and Flash: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2014/11/26/im-thankful-for-greg-berlantis-superhero-shows/

 

The Arrow paragraphs are basically a love letter to Felicity and Diggle:

 

 

First in my heart is Felicity Smoak, a marvelously unique creation brought beautifully to life by Emily Betts Rickards’s sensitive performance. Unlike Marvel’s Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson), Felicity is not out in the field, kicking villainous keister to prove she can punch out bad guys with the boys. Instead, she is an IT whiz, making most of her contributions to Team Arrow by sending her fingers flying across a keyboard or sorting data with her sharp eyes. Felicity is valuable on her own terms, not merely by the criteria used to measure whether men are strong or powerful.

 

And while Felicity is beautiful and highly feminine, she is no sex toy to be lusted after, stolen and threatened, and then rescued. Her attachment to Oliver grows out of their work together, the same work that makes Oliver an unsuitable partner. Felicity’s flirtations with other men, including forensic scientist and secret superhero Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) and business titan Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh), are also based on mental affinity and mutual respect. She is maybe the only woman in superhero storytelling who is credibly loved for her mind.

 

I also love John Diggle (David Ramsey), the former soldier who started as Oliver’s bodyguard and became an integral part of his crime-fighting team. Diggle is tough and physically proficient, if not a beneficiary of the torturous training Oliver received during his years away from home.

But part of what is so wonderful about him is the way Diggle’s work with Oliver helps him to recognize his limits and to develop a more tender side of his personality. After reuniting with his ex-wife and becoming a father, Diggle becomes less reckless. In his new role, proving himself Oliver’s equal is less important. So many superheroes and their teams risk everything. Diggle has something to lose, and those human-size stakes make every scene with him feel genuinely tense in the way that the swaths of destruction that are carved across most superhero movies increasingly fail to register as anything other than CGI.

 

Love this very much.

Edited November 26, 2014 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

 

She is maybe the only woman in superhero storytelling who is credibly loved for her mind.

That is such an important message for girls ... and one that was absent when I was growing up.

[Danny Franks]

She is maybe the only woman in superhero storytelling who is credibly loved for her mind.

 

 

She's not. Barbara Gordon as Oracle was loved for her mind, by both readers and characters. There are plenty of very intelligent women in "superhero storytelling", but most of them also happen to be very beautiful (like Felicity), so their intelligence is downplayed by some observers.

[KenyaJ]

I've loved all of Robert Dougherty's posts about Arrow this season, and here, he takes the writers to task for needlessly and uncreatively dragging things out with Olicity.

 

Regardless of how this all is needed for Oliver and Felicity to be more ready for each other, watching it at this point feels like more taking medicine than actual entertainment – and quality television should not feel like medicine. Even the bleakest of television like Breaking Bad and Mad Men didn’t feel like that when its bleak, dark material really worked. But in Arrow’s case, it is all too obvious how much the strings are being pulled, and how they will continue to be pulled for some time.

 

[statsgirl]

I love Dougherty's analyses, from  " Arrow starts another season stumbling with Laurel Lance" to "Arrow Now Rushing to Overcome Ray Palmer's Awkward First Impression" because for me he just nails the problems with the show.  Live this one:

 

In the case of Arrow, the show is making us sit tight and endure as Oliver Queen goes through yet another round of self-loathing, guilt and a near loss of humanity – only this time it is making Felicity Smoak get dragged down more than usual. Her subsequent, poorly written out connection with the boundary-challenged, 10 million dollar necklace lending Ray Palmer – and the eye-rolling, cliché riddled kiss they shared just as Oliver showed up to end last week’s episode – is the latest bit of angst that used to be more associated with the dead and gladly buried ‘Laureliver’ ship than Olicity. 

...

 

As much as the Hunger Games and Arrow masterminds have still gotten right recently, the crucial things they’ve gotten wrong so far -- and may keep getting wrong for a while yet – have caused too much doubt for even loyal fans to go completely on faith anymore. 

No matter what Stephen Amell says.

Edited November 26, 2014 by statsgirl

[KenyaJ]

Mo Ryan and Ryan McGee finally reviewed Arrow this week. As expected, they're not loving this season. Hearing Mo repeatedly refer to Ray as Roy is cracking my shit up. 

[Kordi]

I agree with Dougherty's analysis about dragging out Olicity "with clichés, triangles and developments that should be beneath this ship and this show". I would just like to add that the show, robbed us of an important part of Olicity as well , namely of the period where they expressed to each other their true feelings more directly and openly - in short, they robbed us of their "flirting phase". The show runners should have staged this on screen - instead of telling readers about it in "Arrow 2.5", as MG seems to do, since he tweeted about writing an Olicity Scene in Felicity's apartment. Think about this! Letting Oliver enter her private home: This must have been an important moment for Felicity and her relationship with Oliver. Why haven't we seen anything about this on the show? In conclusion, I think the show made two mistakes regarding Olicity: First, they just jumped ahead and went straight from a ILY-sort-of-ruse to the first date, leaving out all the development in between, and then they slammed on the brakes and made a big detour in order to keep Olicity from happening. Why can't they show us Oliver's and Felicity's growth - in a two-step-forward-one-step-back-fashion - by writing a story about a couple's struggle as they try to find together a balance in a "triple" life as (i) night time heroes and day time (ii) professionals and (iii) private people. I think this would be less cheesy and much more interesting to watch!

Edited November 27, 2014 by Kordi

[foreverevolving]

She's not. Barbara Gordon as Oracle was loved for her mind, by both readers and characters. There are plenty of very intelligent women in "superhero storytelling", but most of them also happen to be very beautiful (like Felicity), so their intelligence is downplayed by some observers.

 

but Oracle has not had any real life portrayals outside of the comics (minus that short lived BoP show which no one really remembers) so for the 99.6% of us on plant earth who don't read comics and only watches TV there really hasn't been any/many mid 20's, super smart, well rounded and loved characters as Felicity on our TV screens.

I'm a 90's kid with early 2000's teen years, and I can't really remember any female character like her on my TV screen, the only two exception off the top of my head from the past 20 years are Clarissa from "Clarissa explains it all" and Chloe from Smallville. And even then, the former was a teen, and the later started as a teen.

Edited November 27, 2014 by foreverevolving