19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[MarysWetBar]

I imagine you could be right, along with the supposed modesty...plus, there is the possibility that Michelle wears Depends.  Lots of women suffer from incontinence, but after so many pregnancies it seems likely she might experience heavy-duty leakage.

Clarify " leakage" :p

[MarysWetBar]

I'm betting that they actually do return the favors.  I say this because they are too well liked within their own communities for it to be otherwise.  But I'm also betting that a lot of the families actually do not want to the cameras invading their lives so this is why we never see it.  How many of the posters here would ever have heard for Gothardism if it hadn't been for this show?  What are the chances that Gothard would have had the investigation about the sexual assaults on girls reopened if it weren't mentioned in EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE that he's affiliated with the Duggar's and their show?  They aren't even really affiliated with Doug Phillips and Vision Forum (who gave Michelle "Mother of the Year") but when his story broke about sex with the babysitter, the Duggars again were mentioned EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Within this world, the Duggars have been a very mixed blessing.  I think a lot of people think they have done more harm to their movement than anything else.  And they can't go and building everyone a nice big house like the Bates' got.  So you are never going to hear about them helping out at so-and-so's wedding or traveling to see personX finishing a homeschool GED.  But it is obviously happening because people are coming and showing up for their kids.  It's certainly not to be on camera, because a lot of these people shun the cameras.

And I probably had about 50 people volunteer at my wedding which wasn't as large as Jill's, but wasn't small, either (my guest list was 450.)  We didn't pay anyone, and there were only nominal fees given to people like the ministers, who had spent HOURS with us doing counseling.  It's just the way this culture works.  I don't know how to explain it any better than that, other than to say that yes, I understand that many people posting here think it's tacky and cheap, but most of the people there were very touched to be a part of it because they felt they had watched Jill grow up.  Relationships within this world are different -- you don't interact in the same way, but because of prayer chains and such, you know so much more about each other than most people do about the average person you might attend as the acquaintance of a wedding.  The only way I know to describe it as an oversharing FB page where everyone in the community is a "friend" and every little cut and boo boo is recorded for 20+ years.  You may not SEE that person more than a few times in their lives, but you KNOW more about them than is probably healthy!  Believe me, I lived it!  :)

I really appreciate your insider knowledge about this kind of lifestyle. I start watching these shows because the way they live interests me as it is so different from my own life but end up watching to enjoy the snark factor way more in the end. Just wanted you to know I appreciate your posts! :)

[GEML]

Every so often I can't help but snark too, because sometimes the Duggars just go too far! :)

[DangerousMinds]

IMHO, that's why I am here, for the snark:)

[WTFFF]

Oh, I totally agree. I will never utter "practice makes perfect" to my children, because nobody will ever be perfect. I think continually trying to work on yourself and at least make progress in certain areas is a good goal to have. But words are wind, and all the Duggars do is talk. If they could SHOW me any progress they've made in their lives (other than updating their wardrobes a bit) I wouldn't roll my eyes so much when they say it. 

 

The tardiness, for instance. How about practicing to be on time? Or maybe making progress with growing a garden and being more self sufficient? 

 

Oh I totally get where you're coming from there.  These people are so smug and self-satisfied.  They really think they can do no wrong.  None of them ever seem to strive for self-improvement.  Michelle just natters on about it with regard to "training" the little ones to sit down, shut up and quit tattling so Mommy doesn't have to talk to you.

[zenme]

Right I was only talking about her face looking young. Her body has to be some kind of mess under the weird clothes

 

Her body must look like a mess of zippers and pulleys, but she does have a young looking face.  She looked so much better when they gave her that makeover and straightened her hair.  She looked very pretty actually.

 

What also irritates me about the lateness of the Duggars is that half the time they are shown making eggs or toast or something while saying they are late.  Very poor planning.  You would think that at this point they would know how to organize.  I think Jana said that when the girls are due to leave at a certain time they are never late, but when it's mom and dad, they tend to be late.  They sleep in their clothes for goodness sake! Get your asses up earlier, people!

[cmr2014]

 

There is a LOT of humor with Josh and Anna about babies right now, and I think Freudianism is alive and well for them.  They are really sorting out what they think and how to think about having 19 kids and what it means for them and their future.  And it's coming out everywhere for them, sometimes as a "joke" and sometimes not.  I bet they have talked to each other more openly in the past year than they did the first three they were together in Arkansas.

 

This is the vibe I get from them, too. I think that they were both reluctant to have any actual conversations for the first few years of their marriage. I think that the TTH is a hotbed of tattling (or "accountability"), so that no one even dares to say what they actually think for fear of "disappointing" their parents, and being sent to the prayer closet or ALERT or JTTH. That has to be hard to overcome.

 

Given what we have heard about Jill and Jessa's courtships, I don't think that the conversations stray too far from favorite Bible verses.

 

Being in DC has given them the opportunity to actually get to know each other, and I agree that they are trying to sort out their feelings right now. 

[Higgins]

Snark can be fun when it isn't mean spirited or vulgar. I just don't enjoy the making fun of the children. I think their lifestyle is pretty wacky and as an atheist I am fascinated by it but, I think they mean well and Jim Bob seems like a warm and caring father.

[fliptopbox]

I just don't understand how the Duggar kids can all sleep in their clothes all the time. Especially the girls in their skirts, those things would be flipped up and practically around their necks when they wake up! Plus, anyone who's fallen asleep in jeans knows they don't make for good pajamas. I think Michelle and JB just don't want to be bothered undressing/redressing the little ones at night. Same for the older girl buddies. It all comes down to laziness. What seems like cute and quirky on tv really boils down to them not giving a shit.

[awaken]

This could fit into several threads to please move if it fits better elsewhere!  I often see it mentioned that they deny that Josie has any issues, and refuse to get her any help.  Has this been said outright, or are we assuming because they don't show her getting therapy on camera?  I've always thought it was possible that she was getting early intervention services at home (at least when she was younger.)  They usually start with preemies and follow them through toddlerhood or beyond. I didn't know if someone had heard the Duggars specifically say she doesn't need anything or they declined therapy services.  

[floridamom]

Michelle has gone on camera often and has stated that Josie is doing "just fine" and is healthy in every way....so,, either they are covering up something, or they are in denial that she is "just fine". I just don't think so even from the limited view that I have.

[galax-arena]

I can't stand their parroting the line that they'll have as many children as God sees fit to give them. Didn't that same God give them working brains they can use to determine how many children they can comfortably afford and give a healthy measure of parental attention and love to? People aren't rabbits breeding willynilly, but the Duggars apparently never got the message.

Whenever people talk about “leaving it in God’s hands” as an excuse to not take any precautions, it makes me think of the following joke:

 

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”
The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

[Darknight]

They only leave it in gods hands when it suits them. It's just an excuse to be irresponsible. If a any other normal couple use it people who look down on them, but not the whole some christian family Duggars. God doesn't tell you when to have sex. God doesn't determine your family size. If that's the case if your sick and need antibiotics leave it in God's hands. Or when Josie needed medical care forget the doctors leave it in God's hands.

[floridamom]

Sorry, crouton, didn't mean to upset your stomach. It's the truth about doing laundry, isn't it? If I were Michelle, I wouldn't want anyone to do my laundry but me; not my daughters, certainly not my sons, or mother in law because of the "personal side" of marriage and I'd rather be in charge of my husband's laundry and my own...just saying I think that also would be more MODEST of Meeechelle, wouldn't it?

Oh, yes, Jim Bob and Michelle have made sure that THEY HAVE PROPER SHEETS ON THEIR BED, and it's a proper bed too, unlike the inadequate sleeping conditions their sons and daughters have to endure. I sure do hope that they "update" the beds in the girls' dormitory too as they have done in the boys' room now that two blessings/housemaids have moved out. Maybe give Jana her own bed for once.

[GEML]

Also, if you accept government handouts for your children that you had by leaving it in God's hands, they will judge you.  Or if you leave it in God's hands but actually go out as a husband and wife and earn money to support those children, they will judge you.  It isn't really just about the kids -- it's the whole package.  If you don't like the way that they do starting with having the children and doing all of the other things to raising them the way the Duggars do, you're wrong.

[NausetGirl]

Michelle has gone on camera often and has stated that Josie is doing "just fine" and is healthy in every way....so,, either they are covering up something, or they are in denial that she is "just fine". I just don't think so even from the limited view that I have.

 

Completely agree. I don't think the Duggars would EVER publicly admit it if Josie had any kind of residual issues from being born 4 months too early. Sometimes I think denial runs so deeply in this family that if Josie had been a Downs Syndrome baby, they'd still be denying it.

Whenever people talk about “leaving it in God’s hands” as an excuse to not take any precautions, it makes me think of the following joke:

 

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

 

 

This - is - awesome.  Some people just can't see the forest for the trees.

[Absolom]

Has this been said outright, or are we assuming because they don't show her getting therapy on camera?

 

On a different board, one of the members went to a Duggan event and asked Michelle directly if Josie was getting any help and she said that Michelle told her that Josie was receiving speech therapy at that time. 

[GEML]

I will say that IF (and that's an IF) Josie is receiving services, it is quite likely that the person doing the therapy does not wish to be on camera.  There would be zero advantages to doing so, and big reasons NOT to do so.

[3girlsforus]

Whenever people talk about “leaving it in God’s hands” as an excuse to not take any precautions, it makes me think of the following joke:

 

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

 

I love this... I've heard various versions of it before and it's so very true. 

[Higgins]

I don't see what the rest of you see regarding Josie. She seems perfectly normal in development to me.

[Darknight]

I will say that IF (and that's an IF) Josie is receiving services, it is quite likely that the person doing the therapy does not wish to be on camera. There would be zero advantages to doing so, and big reasons NOT to do so.

They pimp everything else out. I suspect that some kids do have delays in certain areas. I remember Johanna?? Couldn't finish her school work because Michelle said she can't sit still long enough to do it. Some Duggar kids might be very gifted and could benefit from a gifted program. But again these people would deny it. Even if it fully shows that one of these kids might have a medical disorder they would still deny it

[3girlsforus]

I don't see what the rest of you see regarding Josie. She seems perfectly normal in development to me.

I don't watch enough to comment on what might be visible but when a baby is born as early as Josie there are so many complications that can arise, many of which aren't readily apparent, that those children automatically get preventative evaluations and services to try to catch issues and allow for early intervention when things can more easily be "fixed" or treated. It's not just a matter of services for therapy. Even the preventative services are paid for by the government for babies born under 2 lbs so there shouldn't  any financial reason not to at least keep tabs and work with therapists to be sure she's doing well. I'm not saying  they aren't doing that - they may be. But just because you don't see delays or issues doesn't mean there aren't any. 

They pimp everything else out. I suspect that some kids do have delays in certain areas. I remember Johanna?? Couldn't finish her school work because Michelle said she can't sit still long enough to do it. Some Duggar kids might be very gifted and could benefit from a gifted program. But again these people would deny it. Even if it fully shows that one of these kids might have a medical disorder they would still deny it

I think Geml meant that the therapist doesn't want to be on camera. And if the therapists/service people are from social services (as I said above all micro premies like Josie qualify for aid regardless of the parents financial situation) they would have very little interest in being on camera and maybe even be prohibited from it. 

 

And I have no words for 'Johanna can't finish her school work because she can't sit still long enough to do it'... ARGGGG

Edited November 4, 2014 by 3girlsforus

[Darknight]

I don't watch enough to comment on what might be visible but when a baby is born as early as Josie there are so many complications that can arise, many of which aren't readily apparent, that those children automatically get preventative evaluations and services to try to catch issues and allow for early intervention when things can more easily be "fixed" or treated. It's not just a matter of services for therapy. Even the preventative services are paid for by the government for babies born under 2 lbs so there shouldn't any financial reason not to at least keep tabs and work with therapists to be sure she's doing well. I'm not saying they aren't doing that - they may be. But just because you don't see delays or issues doesn't mean there aren't any.

I think Geml meant that the therapist doesn't want to be on camera. And if the therapists/service people are from social services (as I said above all micro premies like Josie qualify for aid regardless of the parents financial situation) they would have very little interest in being on camera and maybe even be prohibited from it.

I understand the therapist not being on camera. But if Josie does have a medical problem they shouldn't think everything is alright. Just acknowledge that she has a problem

[GEML]

I think Geml meant that the therapist doesn't want to be on camera. And if the therapists/service people are from social services (as I said above all micro premies like Josie qualify for aid regardless of the parents financial situation) they would have very little interest in being on camera and maybe even be prohibited from it.

And I have no words for 'Johanna can't finish her school work because she can't sit still long enough to do it'... ARGGGG

Exactly. What incentive would any therapist have for being on camera? Most are overworked as it is now, especially in states like Arkansas, so they certainly don't need to advertise, and anything they do opens them up to potential liability issues with their actions caught on film and a million witnesses if it airs.

Honestly, sometimes people act as though the Duggars have total control over everything - and we are somehow getting a wholistic picture of their lives. This is seriously scripted television, and whole segments of the lives (from all sorts of directions) are removed totally from the camera.

[Absolom]

As a micro-preemies in Arkansas, Josie would be eligible for evaluations and she had those at Arkansas Children's.  Services are limited and only offered free to those children most in need of them.  Being a micro-preemie does not automatically equal getting all forms of therapy free from Arkansas.

[WTFFF]

Speaking of things of the Duggars that get my nerves, and Johannah and her schoolwork:

 

Many of the Duggar kids are clearly bright children.  But Hannie, early on, showed so many signs of being a gifted child.  At three, she taught herself to read - and successfully read maps - because nobody in her family was teaching her.  She begged for homework to do when she was still "too young" for school.  While her grammar, sentence structure, etc, were never beyond typical Duggar level, she expressed thoughts that seemed pretty advanced for a kid her age.  When something like 9/17 of the Duggar kids mindlessly droned that they wanted to be missionaries when they grew up, Hannie stopped, pondered the question, listed a few things she liked to do and then said, "I want to be Johannah." 

 

There have just been so many times I've thought about what a smart, interesting child she was while watching the show - and now she's become one of the dull-eyed feral children.  She's still very funny - and I can understand her when she speaks, which is more than I can say for the rest of the Lost Girls - but her sense of curiosity and eagerness to learn seem to have vanished.  And all I can think is "what a fucking waste of a mind."  I feel that to some extent about all of the Duggars, but for some reason, of all the kids, Johannah's on-camera decline has bothered me the most. 

[BitterApple]

They pimp everything else out. I suspect that some kids do have delays in certain areas. I remember Johanna?? Couldn't finish her school work because Michelle said she can't sit still long enough to do it. 

The thing that kills me is I feel like that has less to do with delays and more to do with the fact that the Duggars don't creative an environment that is conducive to learning. They said the same thing about James followed by shots of the poor kid trying to complete his workbook while little ones are running in and out of the room, other kids are banging on the piano downstairs, and there are loud voices in the hallway. I'm 36 and couldn't concentrate with all that racket, it's no wonder the kids get restless. 

[GEML]

What makes me sad about Johannah is that they used to do quite a bit of kinetic/hands on learning, and I think Johanah in particular would thrive with that. For instance, I think she would love to learn how to build houses and set tile and spray insulation. She's a doer. But at this point, it really is only about the show, and that's part of the reason the youngest children seem so off. It's all about talking and performance OR about staying on message - the production team rewards one and the Duggars reward the other. And that's not something that tends to come naturally for kids in that awkward, gawky, 10-15 years, which is why sitcoms always jump the shark by replacing the youngest with some new little kid.

[Barb23]

While watching Dance Moms today, I was thinking it's a shame none of the Duggar girls (or boys) were able to take dance lessons. I'm sure out of the 9 girls, one or two of them might have dance talent & would have excelled in it. Rockettes anyone? It's just a shame these kids aren't allowed to explore areas that could possibly become a career for them or at least a hobby because they don't meet Gothard standards.

[Higgins]

I don't watch enough to comment on what might be visible but when a baby is born as early as Josie there are so many complications that can arise, many of which aren't readily apparent, that those children automatically get preventative evaluations and services to try to catch issues and allow for early intervention when things can more easily be "fixed" or treated. It's not just a matter of services for therapy. Even the preventative services are paid for by the government for babies born under 2 lbs so there shouldn't  any financial reason not to at least keep tabs and work with therapists to be sure she's doing well. I'm not saying  they aren't doing that - they may be. But just because you don't see delays or issues doesn't mean there aren't any. 

I think Geml meant that the therapist doesn't want to be on camera. And if the therapists/service people are from social services (as I said above all micro premies like Josie qualify for aid regardless of the parents financial situation) they would have very little interest in being on camera and maybe even be prohibited from it. 

 

And I have no words for 'Johanna can't finish her school work because she can't sit still long enough to do it'... ARGGGG

I'm a nurse so I understand medical issues with premature children. I also understand and have been trained in child development and she seems developmentally normal to me.

[MarysWetBar]

I notice that when she is seated with the other children her age or younger she is quite obviously not even close to their level of speech or even cognitive ability.I thought she was closer in age to Anna's older boy than she was to Mack. I really don't believe anyone here is bashing a little girl. The issue is that her needs are not being met. Remember what happened to John Travolta's son? The one they insisted was fine due to their scientology beliefs? If they were true Christian soldiers they would see the opportunities to share her journey as a preemie with their audience. Not keep denying there is a problem.

Edited November 5, 2014 by MarysWetBar

[KitKat]

Whenever people talk about “leaving it in God’s hands” as an excuse to not take any precautions, it makes me think of the following joke:

 

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

 

My husband I am decided I could not use birth control (medical reasons) and wanted children.....we did not try to have children.  We were fortunate to have three.  We did not have my daughter keep a calendar to see if I was fertile.  We just had a normal relationship, sex was fun and not a contest to prove we could have children.  

I have to wonder now that Mrs. JimBob is even getting sex since she is out of that season, and wonder if the Boob is looking for a new delight.

[Darknight]

While watching Dance Moms today, I was thinking it's a shame none of the Duggar girls (or boys) were able to take dance lessons. I'm sure out of the 9 girls, one or two of them might have dance talent & would have excelled in it. Rockettes anyone? It's just a shame these kids aren't allowed to explore areas that could possibly become a career for them or at least a hobby because they don't meet Gothard standards.

I was a girl scout. My daughters are girl scouts and dancers. Too bad the Duggar kids can't experience this. I guess choosing friends is a sin. When Michelle had that makeover with her high school friend and was talking about all the fun things she did in front of her kids, it made me really sad for them. They missed out on so much that they can never get back. Prom, school functions, dances, graduation, trips, mall, sports, etc.

[KitKat]

One of them had a 14 year old friend that got pregnant

[WTFFF]

I think Jill met her post-pregnancy by "ministering" to her.

[Mrsjumbo]

I don't see what the rest of you see regarding Josie. She seems perfectly normal in development to me.

YMMV. When I see her so behind on speech & clapping at non existent flies or staring at her buttons, she seems behind to me. I have a SN child, I see some similar delays. She does have the advantage of lots of siblings, that helps as they model speech & play patterns.

[NausetGirl]

I'm a nurse so I understand medical issues with premature children. I also understand and have been trained in child development and she seems developmentally normal to me.

 

I'd want to see Josie in a classroom environment with other kids before making any guesses of my own. Her language does seem a bit clearer than it was a year ago at this time. But as someone who's taught kindergarten and first grade for 35 years, I can pretty confidently say that to me, Josie seems quite immature socially. That could be a preemie thing, or a Duggar thing. Or just a thing. She also looks like she might have trouble "settling" and focusing on the task at hand. I have doubts that she could sit in a circle on the floor with other kids and listen quietly to a story for 5-10 minutes. In general, a five-year old should be able to do that. If Josie was in my class, I'd feel comfortable asking the school psychologist to observe her further on both issues. Both are solvable problems providing she gets any help she needs. Overall, at this time Josie looks more like the younger sibling of the children I've taught than one of the kids themselves.

Edited November 5, 2014 by NausetGirl

[WTFFF]

I agree that Josie probably can't do those things - but I don't think Jackson, Johannah and Jordyn are capable of that either.  Jennifer might just because she doesn't seem as interested in running around aimlessly and screaming with the other kids, but sitting still and behaving aren't really Duggar priorities.  They used to be, back when Michelle actually did the parenting, I guess, but Jason on down have never shown any ability to sit still and behave. 

 

So yeah, I think it's a Duggar thing.  I think if you put any of those kids into a real school environment, they'd be declared a holy terror immediately. 

 

It also makes me think of someone on TWoP who knew a woman who'd served as a tour guide when the Duggars were visiting Biltmore.  While on-screen they were told to call the kids well-behaved and whatnot, the woman confided that they'd been terrors, rude, entitled and obnoxious to the staff.  So now I don't believe anyone on the show who insists the kids are "well-behaved" on field trips, especially when we see with our own eyes that they aren't. 

[BitterApple]

 

So yeah, I think it's a Duggar thing.  I think if you put any of those kids into a real school environment, they'd be declared a holy terror immediately. 

I agree. The younger kids have pretty much gone off the rails since Michelle and Boob checked out of parenting. Although I don't disagree that Josie may have some delays, I think a lot of her hyperactivity is due to the fact that she's never been taught how to behave. Even kids in preschool are made to work and play in small groups, have quiet time, have nap time etc. In the Duggar household it's just a random free for all. There's no discernable schedule or routine to teach the younger kids how to function in a structured setting.

[Darknight]

These kids would probably be in detention for 90% of the time. They would always be late wouldn't sit still wouldn't do work. Maybe some would but ma and pa let them get away with too many things. And no way is JB going to listen to a female principal

[3girlsforus]

And it would be so easy to control... If they were really doing any kind of education in their "homeschool" there would be lots of times those kids would be sitting around Mom reading, listening to stories, telling stories, playing games (lots of games are really educational) etc. They would look forward to that. Personally I think the kids are bored. The decline of Johannah that was discussed earlier comes from boredom. She had the ideal situation - homeschooling gifted kids can be an amazing experience that really sparks their imagination. But they are too lazy to actually teach so these kids are bored. 

[Higgins]

Some kids are just like that though. They are easily distractible and it doesn't mean they are delayed or have special needs. It is just their nature and that's okay. People are different. 

[NausetGirl]

Some kids are just like that though. They are easily distractible and it doesn't mean they are delayed or have special needs. It is just their nature and that's okay. People are different. 

 

Some kids are like that, yes. But it's never that they are "just like that." They may not have any developmental disabilites, but in a classroom these days, that kind of nature would very definitely be a special need. It wasn't recognized when most of we Baby Boomers were in grammar school, but it is now. And thank God because it is a real thing. Children with ADD need and deserve help as much as a blind or deaf child would. A child that cannot sit still, or concentrate, or work without bothering the children around them disrupts the entire classroom and the learning experiences of every child in it. Intervention is needed and often makes a huge difference. Sometimes just behavioral changes and strategies will work.  Some children need pharmaceutical help as well.

Edited November 5, 2014 by NausetGirl

[GEML]

I think that it is fairly safe to say that from at least Justin down, their educational needs are not being met to the advantage of every child. I personally am not convinced that Josie in particular is showing signs of significant delay -I raised a child with alphabet soup disgnoses, so I know at least a little about this - and a couple of television clips aren't enough to tell me anything useful, especially when I watch her work really well with Jill, for instance.

But as a whole, if this were a one room schoolhouse and these were the children attending, I think that I would have some concerns. There doesn't seem to be a lot of learning going on, and the behavior does seem to be out of sync with good study habits in almost ALL of them, which means it's a classroom issue, not an organic one.

[Fosca]

I don't see what the rest of you see regarding Josie. She seems perfectly normal in development to me.

 

I have no idea what Josie normally behaves like, since I don't watch the show (I'm here for the snark).  But I did watch some of the wedding (I wanted to see the "stampede" out of the church), and (this is totally unscientific, I know) I picked Josie out of the little-girl-with-a-sign lineup instantly, even though I've never seen her before.  She just looks "off" to me.  There's a, well, a "vacantness" there that I didn't see on the other girls.  I hope she's receiving help, should she need it.  Unfortunately I can see her and Jana spending the rest of their lives with their parents, with Jana taking care of all of them.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Fosca

[3girlsforus]

Some kids are like that, yes. But it's never that they are "just like that." They may not have any developmental disabilites, but in a classroom these days, that kind of nature would very definitely be a special need. It wasn't recognized when most of we Baby Boomers were in grammar school, but it is now. And thank God because it is a real thing. Children with ADD need and deserve help as much as a blind or deaf child would. A child that cannot sit still, or concentrate, or work without bothering the children around them disrupts the entire classroom and the learning experiences of every child in it. Intervention is needed and often makes a huge difference. Sometimes just behavioral changes and strategies will work.  Some children need pharmaceutical help as well.

It depends on why they are exhibiting the behavior we are seeing. I have an child who is ADD so I do understand that it's real and needs to be addressed. However, these kids are homeschooled which gives more leeway in how it can be addressed. For example, my daughter is ADD and would definitely had to have been medicated  in a school setting. But because we homeschool we could work with it and give her time. So when she was younger (5-9 or 10 years old) we would do less school in a day than would be typical. We would do very short lessons, take lots of breaks, do lots of physical lessons, spend time on the trampoline outside, etc. We had the ability to tailor education to her needs. Now that she's 12, she still has issues focusing and I spend more time sitting with her during her work than I did with my older two, but she's gradually grown into being able to handle a full, age-appropriate school day without excessive breaks or spreading it out too much. An advantage of homeschooling is being able to tailor education to the needs of your child. I am not anti-medication but they had bad side effects for my child so I'm glad we have been able to work without them so far.

 

So I'd be inclined to give the younger kids a pass on 'they couldn't sit in a classroom all day'. My problem is that I don't see them taking any steps guiding them toward  more reasonable educational requirements. Homeschooling for young kids really doesn't take a lot of time. You don't need a 6 or 7 hour school day for young ones so they should be able to find the time. With them it's hard to know what it motivating the lack of educational focus. Is it that they just don't value education, especially since these are girls, is it a preoccupation with the show, are we just not seeing school time much so we don't know what they are doing, is it all of the above? 

Edited November 5, 2014 by 3girlsforus

[Betweenyouandme]

It depends on why they are exhibiting the behavior we are seeing. I have an child who is ADD so I do understand that it's real and needs to be addressed. However, these kids are homeschooled which gives more leeway in how it can be addressed. For example, my daughter is ADD and would definitely had to have been medicated in a school setting. But because we homeschool we could work with it and give her time. So when she was younger (5-9 or 10 years old) we would do less school in a day than would be typical. We would do very short lessons, take lots of breaks, do lots of physical lessons, spend time on the trampoline outside, etc. We had the ability to tailor education to her needs. Now that she's 12, she still has issues focusing and I spend more time sitting with her during her work than I did with my older two, but she's gradually grown into being able to handle a full, age-appropriate school day without excessive breaks or spreading it out too much. An advantage of homeschooling is being able to tailor education to the needs of your child. I am not anti-medication but they had bad side effects for my child so I'm glad we have been able to work without them so far.

So I'd be inclined to give the younger kids a pass on 'they couldn't sit in a classroom all day'. My problem is that I don't see them taking any steps guiding them toward more reasonable educational requirements. Homeschooling for young kids really doesn't take a lot of time. You don't need a 6 or 7 hour school day for young ones so they should be able to find the time. With them it's hard to know what it motivating the lack of educational focus. Is it that they just don't value education, especially since these are girls, is it a preoccupation with the show, are we just not seeing school time much so we don't know what they are doing, is it all of the above?

Yep. I agree. ALL diagnoses of mental, emotional, and learning issues should consider the person's ability to *function.* That doesn't mean a person with an issue should be ignored because, for instance, their parents think girls don't need any education so sitting still doesn't matter. But, it does add to the complexity of not only a diagnosis, but how it's handled.

Luckily, Josie does seem to be progressing some.

[NausetGirl]

I think that it is fairly safe to say that from at least Justin down, their educational needs are not being met to the advantage of every child. I personally am not convinced that Josie in particular is showing signs of significant delay -I raised a child with alphabet soup disgnoses, so I know at least a little about this - and a couple of television clips aren't enough to tell me anything useful, especially when I watch her work really well with Jill, for instance.

But as a whole, if this were a one room schoolhouse and these were the children attending, I think that I would have some concerns. There doesn't seem to be a lot of learning going on, and the behavior does seem to be out of sync with good study habits in almost ALL of them, which means it's a classroom issue, not an organic one.

 

I agree. Unless she is still not potty-trained, I don't think Josie shows signs of significant delay either. At least from what we can see, which is strongly-edited. But it is clear that there are addressable issues. Solvable problems that I don't think Boob and Mechelle will deal with... unless they'd be apparent to the general public.

[floridamom]

I don't think Josie is "reliably" potty trained as she was the only flower girl at Jill's wedding to be wearing leggings under her flower girl dress..I think it's to hold the "pullups' in place...What do you all think? She should be totally trained by now and ready for PreK,, if not kindergarten as she will be 5 in December. Many states require the student to be 5 by Dec 31st to start kindergarten the previous September.

[NausetGirl]

It depends on why they are exhibiting the behavior we are seeing. I have an child who is ADD so I do understand that it's real and needs to be addressed. However, these kids are homeschooled which gives more leeway in how it can be addressed. For example, my daughter is ADD and would definitely had to have been medicated  in a school setting. But because we homeschool we could work with it and give her time. So when she was younger (5-9 or 10 years old) we would do less school in a day than would be typical. We would do very short lessons, take lots of breaks, do lots of physical lessons, spend time on the trampoline outside, etc. We had the ability to tailor education to her needs. Now that she's 12, she still has issues focusing and I spend more time sitting with her during her work than I did with my older two, but she's gradually grown into being able to handle a full, age-appropriate school day without excessive breaks or spreading it out too much. An advantage of homeschooling is being able to tailor education to the needs of your child. I am not anti-medication but they had bad side effects for my child so I'm glad we have been able to work without them so far.

 

So I'd be inclined to give the younger kids a pass on 'they couldn't sit in a classroom all day'. My problem is that I don't see them taking any steps guiding them toward  more reasonable educational requirements. Homeschooling for young kids really doesn't take a lot of time. You don't need a 6 or 7 hour school day for young ones so they should be able to find the time. With them it's hard to know what it motivating the lack of educational focus. Is it that they just don't value education, especially since these are girls, is it a preoccupation with the show, are we just not seeing school time much so we don't know what they are doing, is it all of the above? 

 

Strongly agree. Homeschooling is a terrific option for children with any attention-deficit disorders. Everything can be customed-tailored for that chld's specific needs without other children seeing the "special" treatment. As long as the child still has contact with other children via activities like Scouts, sports, dance class, etc etc, the social advantages for an ADD child are huge in a homeschool situation.